Special Episode, How To “Leap and Lead with Courage” in Business and everyday life with CB Bowman

At the end of your life, what will be your legacy? What will you leave behind for future generations, for the world? Join the World Messenger, Isabella Lundberg, each week as she brings you a new distinguished guest from the business, sports, or entertainment world to share their success, their struggles, and their lessons. They will share their insights into current hot topics that affect everyone. Isabella facilitates an intimate, vulnerable environment to find the true value of humanity and real leadership. Are you ready for your legacy? Legacy, the legacy that matters.

Hello, hello, my beautiful friends. It's Isabella Lumbik here, the World Messenger, and I'm inviting you for another epic episode of Legacy Leader Show. I am beyond thrilled to have someone dear to my heart be back, or actually bring a new perspective and flavor, not only what she's doing, but also such relevant topics, discussions with subject matter experts on multiple fronts. And nobody better to learn from subject matter experts, right? Not only about the courage, the queen of courage, and what courage means and what it takes to leap and lead, but also someone who funded and created opportunities for executive coaches and leaders to have a platform and springboard their skills and knowledge into a very useful practical application as someone who actually funded I didn't create it. Guess what? She created executive. What is the name of it? Jesus.

Association of Corporate Executive Coaches.

I will. I will scratch this. I'm looking. Where is that on your?

Let me blow my nose so you can scratch that.

No, no, no, no. I will.

I will. I will.

I will. A corporation of executive coaches, right?

No. Association.

Association. Okay.

Of corporate. Corporate executive coaches.

Corporate executive coach. Okay, let me scratch this. Okay. Hello, hello, my beautiful friends. It's Isabella Lundberg here and inviting you. Hello, hello, my beautiful friends. It's Isabella Lundberg here, the World Messenger, and I'm inviting you for another epic episode of Legacy Leader Show. Today I have someone that I am kicking off the month of March, Women's International Recognition, not just in a day but in a whole month. Women, there are Courageous, powerful, and movers and shakers on global scene. And I'm super happy to have my fellow Coloradan with me today in the studio that not only is expert on courage and how to lead and leap in that leadership, but also someone who created so much more. Women's Power Pack group that supports other women, as well as Association of Corporate Coaches where the coaches can truly make a positive footprint in corporations. And God knows that they need help the most, right? So without further ado, please allow me to invite CB, CB Bowen Otonel. How are you, CB?

I am awesome because I'm on your show today. I couldn't think of a better place to be.

Thank you so much, CB. It's absolute pleasure to have you. I mean, I have privilege to be with you a lot in behind the scene, in different groups and in different projects and engagements, and it is super amazing to have wealth of knowledge and personality like yourself. But for other women, and for you as well-kept secret, I want to unveil this, uh, not only your skill set but how much you contribute to support everyone, but specifically also women that need help today as everything is shifting and changing. So, CB, do you mind sharing a little bit about your championing of the woman? How all this started and what did you recognize through your extensive global acumen?

You know, I am not sure how it started, and I'll tell you a little secret that is not, you know, I'm not proud of, but, you know, I grew up in the corporate world and I found that my supporters were all men. The people that came to my aid were all men. With the exception of one woman, Andor. The other women were always, you know, sneaking and manipulating and trying to claw their way up to the top and push you down. And so, you know, my experience was I didn't particularly care for women. And then I became an executive coach, and still most of my clients were men. And then as I moved up in the world, I saw what the problem was. And I said, you know, you can't sit on the sidelines here. You've got to support other women. Otherwise, you're going to become like the woman that you're defining that you don't want to be with. And so I said, what can I do to support my colleagues who were women? And I thought, okay, I'm going to start a group for women. And then I thought, okay, well, what's going to make that different than other groups for women? I said, think about what bothers you about other groups that you don't want to repeat. And it was that whenever women got together, they started talking about their children, their husbands, their boyfriends, their significant others. And that was the majority of the meeting. And I thought, okay, so create a group where that's off limits. And then I thought, well, the other thing is that a lot of times women suffer from the imposter syndrome. So how it comes out is it sounds like they're whining instead of going out there and grabbing what they want. And I said, so the women in this group will have to demonstrate that they're able to grab what they want. And what they're looking for is support from other successful women. And so I created the Women's Power Pack group, and it is a group of incredible kick-ass women.

That is beautiful story, and specifically honoring femininity as we honor powerful women that are leading and making huge strides and blazing new paths. It's great to have that, and I witnessed that firsthand, and I was part of that amazing nucleus that you created. And I have to say, comes in times when it's needed the most. So first of all, kudos to you for your visionary leadership and understanding where the gaps are and where the tremendous opportunities Opportunities to make a difference. So thank you, CB. But with that in mind, I would like to ask you what it takes to lead as a strong, powerful woman today. Courageous more than anything, please.

Yeah, it takes courage. You know, it takes courage to stay your true north. It takes courage to support other women. It takes courage to support yourself because You know, you look around and even today, you know what I love about the new generation of women? They're there for each other. So our generation, we're still struggling with that identity. And so therefore it takes more courage than the new generation of women who are just coming out in their 20s, right?

Yes.

It takes more courage for us to go against the norms. of supporting each other. And this is, this is what I hear in our group. There's no jealousy.

Hmm.

Right? Jealousy is off the table. Do we not feel a pinch when somebody else gets that contract and we haven't gotten it? Yes. That's human nature. But there's a difference between human nature and vindictive Nature. So we're going to support each other. And the other thing I've noticed is that women tend to say, I'll help, and then they don't.

Hmm.

So I'm very watchful for those people that say in energy and with all innocence, I'm going to help you, but then don't deliver. On that. So that's an important element to be part of WPP. I don't care how busy you are, you must deliver on your promise to help.

That is an excellent point because it's easy to fall through the crack. It's easy to put things sideways or on the back burner. And sometimes we tend to say things what other people like to hear. And we know what that looks like. That's not the leadership and definitely not leadership we needed today, right? Exactly. So thank you for calling that out. Yes.

Yeah. The other part is, I think with women leaders, because we've had to fight so long to be heard, there are times when we don't know when to zip it, to be quiet. Right? And I know I've repeated this in many interviews, but to me, it's so Stunning and so important. When I started the Association of Corporate Executive Coaches, I was the person that was going against the norms because of our beliefs that the success of a coach is not based upon competencies; it's based upon accomplishments. Right? And that meant that the people that were going to be part of the association. Had to be accomplished. Well, then that meant that I had to be hard driving to push that concept against the norms that coaches have to be enterprise-wide business partners in order to be master corporate executive coaches. But I got to a point where fortunately I have people around me that tell me, "Shut up, CB." And that happened with ACEC. They said— this is my executive advisory committee— said, CB, we celebrate that you've gotten us here, but now you're holding us back.

Mm.

You need to step out of the muck of the day-to-day stuff. Let us take it. And we need you to be strategic. Keep us at the top of our game. And at first, my feelings were so hurt. I was like, okay, fine. You don't want my opinions? You're not going to get it. And so therefore, when they came to me, I said, no, you have to solve it yourself. Okay. What an idiot I was. Because many years later, I heard Marshall interviewing— I think it was Alan Mulally, who was CEO of Ford. And Marshall said to him, what's the biggest lesson you've learned in my coaching you? And he said, I have learned to shut up.

I guess you guys went through the same training.

And I thought, wait, what did I just hear? Let me hear the rest of this. And he said, what I noticed as the CEO, when I walk in the room and say something, it causes everybody else to be silent. And I don't hear the good new ideas. So I've learned now I'm going to be the last person to speak. And that was an aha moment for me. So I think we as women who are used to fighting to be heard, we also have to learn when to zip it.

So learning when, when to speak, when also listen, and then to respond, and also to influence and impact choices and decisions. That is such a powerful lesson as we are jumping in, obviously, month of March. As we're getting close to March 8th of March, International Women's Day, that is still quite a bit actually celebrated in so many parts of the world, specifically Europe. It's such a big day, and I really wanted to shed some light. How do we celebrate women in 21st century? How do we celebrate women in 2022? Right, because all the wisdom and all those golden nuggets that you're sharing. Sharing contributed not only for who you are today, but opportunity for others women to mirror what you already been through, so they don't have to go through all these landmines and learn a painful way. So what would you recommend for everybody watching and listening, or working with a woman, or trying to figure out how to navigate to work with powerful, strong, capable woman? What would you recommend for them?

I'd recommend a few things. One is I have to give kudos to our dear friend Howard Morgan. So Howard is an incredibly scary, successful businessman who has recognized that women value support given to them by men. as well as other women. So this is really a new thing for us. It's not only recognizing the support given to them by women, but also by men. Let's not push men out of the picture.

Yes.

So what his firm has developed, and it's released on the 8th, is an acknowledgement and an award. And I'm telling a big secret. for people who have made a difference for women in business. And that can be a man or a woman. So kudos to him. And I would say to women, aside from reaching out to me to see if you could join the Women's Power Pack group, which by the way, you have to be recommended. It's a private group. I would say one of the most important things that you could do is to develop your own personal board of directors.

Hmm.

Made up of men and women, people who you could trust, who are not— and you must vet them, even though you know them well. You must vet them because these are people who you're going to trust to tell you you're wrong. And these are people who you're going to trust to say, I love what you're doing. Keep going.

Right.

And when they say these things to you, they are truly going to speak with your best interest at heart, not themselves, not others, but other people. These are people who are going to allow you to pivot with support, because sometimes we get down a road and we find out It's not the road we should be on. It's the road we can be on, but it's not the road that's going to give us the most bang for our buck, and we have to pivot. Well, a good person on your board would be the person who supports you in that pivot and helps point the way, not says to you, oh, You're a typical female. You can't make up your mind what you want to do. That's bullshit. What it is, is you're recognizing where your strength is going to play the best.

Wow, that is such powerful advice. So all ladies that are listening and watching, or all men that are mentoring, coaching, important woman in your enterprises or, or your even personal life, this is a great opportunity to tap into this amazing advice. So obviously you mentioned earlier magical word of courage, for all of this takes a lot of courage. I mean, you just have to work on yourself, believe in yourself. So do you mind sharing how did you really tap into your own courage And also how others can do the same so that they can make these smart decisions and leap forward in big strides.

You know, I had help. You can't do anything in this world without help. And I have been really fortunate in the men that I've known that reached out and helped me. And I remember, and this includes medical. I remember going to a psychologist once. I was very concerned about my abilities to make decisions. Was I on the right track? Because I spent numerous years in a corporation in a hostile environment. And so I began to doubt myself.

Mm.

And one meeting he said to me, CB, you don't need me. He said, you just need to learn to trust your gut. Because where you're going off the wire is when you don't trust your gut. That was probably one of the most profound things that was said to me. The other thing was actually said to me by a woman. in corporate America, when the organization was going through a lot of stuff and I was going through all of this racial discrimination. And she was not my favorite person by any stretch of the imagination. But somehow I mustered up the courage to go to her and talk to her. And she sat and she listened to me whine. And she looked at me, and by the way, other women in the organization totally feared her. And she said to me, CB, the time to rise is during chaos. And I looked at her and I thought, drop the mic. Wow, that is powerful. So during chaos, it's not the time to whine, it's the time to rise. And that's another thing that has stayed with me through the years. Figure out a way to use your courage in trying times. It could be business, it could be personal, but you've got to step up, step out, and speak up to your true north.

That is so powerful. I love that because right now we are continuously going into second, third year of trying times, and people constantly crave to go back to old, and that doesn't exist anymore. And they're still partially, uh, in the past so that they're not really leveraging what's happening currently, let alone positioning properly for the future. So do you mind sharing a little bit about how that is helping you, not only yourself to pivot, but how others can do the same?

So I have this thing where I leap first and then figure out where I'm gonna land. That scares other people, but for me, leaping gives me the freedom To say whatever happens happens because I'm going out on that edge, right? So I don't have to worry about comparing it to the past. I'm going out on the ledge and I'm jumping. Now, 2 things will happen. I'll either land for success or land for failure. If I land for failure, The goal is to extrapolate the lessons that I learned, and I have no fear that there are lessons that I've learned, and then taking those lessons and applying those to starting again, trying again, using those lessons. So I think for the women listening that have not been successful, they actually have been successful. You know, as Nelson Mandela says, and I'm going to paraphrase, don't judge me by my success. Judge me by how many times I got up to fight again. That is so powerful. We tend to, in this day and age, we tend to say ignore history. You know what? That gets us into trouble. I say pay attention to history, but don't let history hold you back. Learn from history what you can do to create change and betterment. And that takes courage because now you're going against What happened in the past? But you know what happened in the past was not successful. We know that wars are not successful. What are we taking from that history? We keep doing it over and over and over again. What are we doing? God's work to eliminate the population, to to manage the population. To control the population, what gives us that right? We have to have the courage to do things that will not kill. We have the sources now. Economic sanctions will hurt a country, it appears, more than death. So why aren't we using those? It takes courage to do something new. Why aren't our governments, our people in charge, doing something new? Why aren't they showing courage?

That is an excellent question and really makes me think what it takes to be courageous, because you have to build that muscle, right? You have to face it too. Fail, you have to pick up again, as you quoted Nelson Mandela and his over time, you know, trying again and trying again till he succeeded and perseverance, but also unwavering faith and his beliefs, right? And then level of integrity and the level of that unwavering attributes. He didn't use the force. And I love analogies and examples you gave. How much leadership can be impactful and without force, and that is the best aspects of it. How do we lead courageously, but also without being forceful?

We have to remember that you only fail— we have to understand the definition of fail. We only fail when we don't try again.

That is a powerful reminder, and anybody that's hearing this first time, I would recommend to write it down. Because this is interesting, CB, obviously from psychology, from, um, as an educator working with children and children's psychology in developmental years, we as adults were taking away that permission to try something new and fail because it was given to us as a child. children, but as adults not, right? And it's almost like unlearning and undoing and repositioning, which I also want to ask you. I'm sure you see a lot of that happening through our association from corporate executive coaches too, what executives are struggling. So now when you ask where the leaders are and what's happening, why they're not trying something new, I'm sure it's some amazing connection between those two because They're stuck in who they are. They don't learn as quickly. They're not as agile, nimble, and as a result, organizations are not either. Could you please share a little bit of your perspective?

Yeah, you know what? We are creating our own monster here. We as a people have lost our patience. And that's contrary to allowing people to be courageous. So what happens when people make a mistake? We say, done. We are not going to allow the space for correction. And that space of correction is courage.

Right?

To go in and say, I've made a mistake. I want to try this again. That's courage. So we have to expand our definition of courage. Right? So with the cancel culture, it's not allowing us to expand our definition of courage. It's not allowing us to be apologetic. It's not allowing us to try again. What are we doing here? What's going on? Why are we so afraid of letting people try again? We have to ask ourselves that question. If somebody says something we don't like, there's a couple of ways we could go. We can agree. We can disagree, or we can think about it. Now, we want to be in the think about it zone because it allows us to expand. It allows us to say, hmm, I might be courageous enough to try it because I'm thinking about it. But when we immediately say, No, you can't think about it. You can't say yes. You have to automatically go to the no zone. Where's the opportunity for growth? Where's the opportunity for courage? You don't have it because you have not heard another perspective. You're not allowing yourself to digest that other perspective. It doesn't mean you have to agree. For goodness' sakes. And it means that you have allowed yourself to expand your mind and thinking. And why would you not want to do that? That's not something I understand. Courage to learn, courage to expand. It seems simple because courage is simple. It does not need to be running into a building to save a life. We all want to be able to do that.

Yes, absolutely.

But we also all don't want a burning building with somebody in there, right?

Come on now. Absolutely.

Let's understand this.

Yes, we don't want to wait to get to that point. We want to be proactive. We want to take the risks. We wanted to also try multiple different things and see what is the best path forward. And it's, it's interesting because, CB, we're seeing so much rapid change and new things that we've never done before, either it's related to new technology or new types of paradigms, a new combination of things, and expect that people automatically will know the answer and know exactly what to do and how to do it. It's absolutely ridiculous. Does it make sense?

Yeah, we're we're just denying ourselves. New is exciting. Yes, failure is exciting.

It's a trial period for till you succeed. It's a learning curve. It's a learning opportunity, and I love that attitude. And I really feel like women specifically need to give their. More permission to do that, or ask for that permission and not back down because we are quick.

Hey, time out. Naturally.

Time.

When we don't need to ask for permission.

That's what I'm saying. No, we don't.

Yes. Right, right. No, we don't. And in fact, men don't need to ask for permission. No one needs to ask for permission to try and to learn. To expand. No one.

Yes. Yes.

Now, you may not agree with the path of trying and expansion, but as long as you're not killing somebody, that's not courage. As long as you're not killing yourself, suicide, that's not courage. We need to really examine the definition of courage. It could be as small as asking somebody if they'd like support walking across the street. Now, that's not really small in my mind, but the fact that we don't consider it courageous makes it small.

Why?

Because here's what you're dealing with: rejection. Person could say, no, I don't need your help. Then you feel like, damn, I shouldn't have asked, and I'm never going to ask again. Wrong. 2, you could be hit by a car. So could the other person.

What?

Have you thought about that? No, you're thinking about helping other people or another person. Well, guess what? That's courage. It's not running into that burning building or jumping into the lake, but it is an act of courageousness.

Amazing. I agree with you. It's looking at things from a different perspective. And a lot of times we dismiss ideas, or as you call it, Kill the idea before we even explore it. And I love that you introduced the third concept before yes or no answer. Let's think about it. Let's explore further. Let me, uh, seek to understand. Let me ask more questions.

And please, I love this.

Yes. And let me listen.

Ready?

Yes, yes, yes.

You know, I have a very simple definition of courage.

Please.

The ability to make a decision. That decision, yes or no, it still takes courage. And making a decision in spite of how many supporters you have, and how many people you have going against you. It's you making a decision. A decision to help somebody cross the street. A decision to open your own business. A decision not to change your mind. If somebody says to you who's a person of color, I'm not going to vote in this election. A white person is going to say something like, what? I thought you voted for the right to vote. Yeah, the right to vote, the ability to make a choice based upon my beliefs. And I don't believe there's anybody that I want to see in this seat. So I am choosing Not to vote. That's what my predecessors fought for. It's the right to make a decision.

Hmm.

Don't cancel me out because you disagree with my decision. Think about my decision. Why am I making that choice?

And that also takes not only courage but great leadership skill sets to do things right, not only for yourself but also group and people that we represent, and also the future, right? And seeing implications of what certain things could be or how they can look like. And more than ever, we need a woman and woman perspective. Obviously, we're celebrating Women's International Day and Month, But also, we need much more courage from all the leaders, obviously, in order to make better critical decisions. So with that in mind, CB—

You know—

Go ahead.

I didn't tell you. My wish is that we— that I live to see where there's no Women's Day. There's no International Women's Day because it's not necessary. We're already there.

Mm.

I remember when I was a child and there was a vote, a proposal in the voting that would allow women to do something. And I said to my father, are you voting yes for this? And he said, hell no, your mother doesn't need permission to do a damn thing. She does what she wants and what she believes in. She doesn't need a piece of paper to tell her. And I was very upset with that comment. I'm like, what kind of father am I raising? And now I get it. I want to live for the day when we do not need an International Women's Day because we have arrived. We are past that.

That is so powerful. And if you're fully integrated, supported, and part of the community, we're also part of the landscape and part of the— that C-suite and part of all of those decision makers and where our opinion, voice, and perspective matters. And it's proven over and over— and you were mentioning wars and conflicts earlier a little bit— that when we have a woman in leadership and invisible roles, as a result, we don't resort to resolve the conflicts with more conflicts. We find a way to find democracy, diplomacy, and actually peaceful resolutions, which we need in personal life, which we need in corporate arena, and which we need also now in relationship with other countries in the world. And it's interesting how everything ripples. And with that in mind, CB, you have astonishing legacy already. And I'm curious, with everything you're currently doing, from courage, uh, speaking on it and, and enlightening and delighting, um, so many corporations and people around the world. Also, obviously, Women's Power Pack, where you're supporting so powerfully other women, and obviously Association of, uh, Coaches, Executive Coaches, and, and, and everything you do through that perspective. Where are you headed? What's left on the bucket list? And what would you like your legacy to be defined in, in, in the years coming?

You know, I believe your legacy is something that you've built your entire life. It's not a moment in time.

Mm.

So I believe I've had a leg— and, and I believe you can have more than one legacy. I believe the fact that I fought corporate America on racism by taking some of the big guys to court. I believe in creating the Association of Corporate Executive Coaches to move the dime on what CEOs see as a value for hiring an executive coach is a legacy. I believe my stance on DEI Which is to implement versus say in major corporations. It is to take a piece at a time and keep moving forward and not wait for another killing. I believe we can do that in a supportive way. supportive, peaceful way. I believe that that's one of my legacies. And I strongly hope that the 2 that I'm working on now, which is courage and women, their strength, their power, and women uniting together, is going to be added to my legacy And I don't know what's next because I don't know what that big guy up there and the big woman up there has in store for me. I hope it's longevity. And I hope it's continued courage.

That is so beautifully shared. Thank you. And I really hope, yes, because we need more people not only like yourself, but we also need people like yourself women like yourself to lead the way, to trailblaze, because we're sadly still in those trailblazing stages. And as you said, in order to arrive, we need to have that amazing woman pack and woman support and put all that to great fruition. Any last closing remarks, CB? Because obviously this has just been a delighted journey to share share with our listeners here and people that are watching as they're finding opportunities that they can implement something? So where they can find you, where they can learn from all of these amazing projects and be part of your tremendous tribe?

Well, there are 2 ways. One is through contacting— well, 3 ways. One is through contacting Isabella. 2 is contacting me directly to ask me to speak at your organization or your community. And 3, I invite successful women out there who want to be part of the next cohort of Women's Power Pack To reach out to me directly. And it's real simple. It's cb@cbbowman.com.

That is fantastic. So we'll definitely make sure all the links are live and people can quickly copy them and take action. CB, again, given how busy you are, it's an absolute pleasure you find the time to be with us and we can springboard this beautiful month of March with women empowerment and a great share. So thank you for being on the Legacy Leader Show.

One other thing, follow me on my podcast, Courage, and it's also under Courage Challenges of the C-Suite. I'm on LinkedIn Live every Tuesday. Tune in, and if you miss it, go to your favorite podcast Station or YouTube, and leave a comment. We'd love to hear from you.

Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic. So again, where we have its listeners and everybody that is watching, this is again definitely opportunity for you to engage, comment, and share your perspective. And I look forward hearing from all of you. Cheers.

Thank you so much, Isabella.

Thank you for listening to Legacy Leader Show. If you enjoyed the content and had a positive experience. Then please leave us a positive rating. In addition, leave us positive review whenever you are listening on whatever platform that might be. Make sure your friends and family also know about the benefit and value that we provide and what we have to offer.

Cheers.