Charles Noonan: Transforming Communities & Building Wealth Through Real Estate | S:04 E:10

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All right, so sometimes I need to just, you know, need to throw it back and get that feeling, that vibe. I don't know what it is about listening to the guitar or the piano or whatever it is that I listen to when I listen to music. There's just some, some instrument in there. There's some melody in there that I fall in love with and I, and I, I need music in my life. You know, we were talking that about that with Effie yesterday. But anywho, something new that we are starting to do in that we need to be doing in this industry is, is educating people. So something new that the Danza Project is getting into is giving people that information. And this is season four. This is our, our fourth season. Like, this is our. From now on, when we talk about our seasons, you know what I mean? Like, let's, let's make it more impactful than being, you know, season one, season two, season three. Let's, let's make it, you know, a season of growth as well. You know, the things that we talk about. And part of that, part of that growth is what we got going on here at the Danza Project with, you know, the, the deals in place, the sponsorships and everything and, you know, just the relationships and bonds that we've built along the way. So what's going on with you, Katie? How you feeling today?

Man, it's been a long weekend. Ever since Labor Day weekend, I haven't been able to keep track of what day it is. You know, my Tuesdays feel like Thursdays, and I've just been navigating day by day, little by little, trying to get through it. Plus, I'm coming off the birthday month. I just got my black belt, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I've just been running all over town. Went to Vegas two weeks ago. My head spinning a lot, man, you.

Know, And I feel like we won't be able to settle down now. You know?

I'm ready.

On top of that, we get to have a lot of amazing conversations with a lot of amazing people. And tonight, we got someone special here, an entrepreneur and somebody that we've got to have a little bit of a conversation with in the past, just few minutes here to get to know, because we don't want the people to not get the same information. So, Mr. Noonan, we got Charles Noonan here. How you feeling?

I'm good, man. You set it off with the vibe. I ain't gonna lie.

You liked it. Yeah.

So, look, Chris, I'm sorry. Kato's bobbing his head still. He's still, like, in red. Yeah, that was dope, bro. Yeah, I appreciate that. So I'm feeling good, man. We got a lot of good stuff going on. I'm happy to be here. Fan of the show.

So definitely, when you say you're a fan of the show, like, give me an idea of. Of a show that you've watched that made you a fan.

Of a podcast that I watch.

Yeah, just anything that you've watched about.

What did I say?

Oh, of yours?

Yeah, any. Any. Yeah, anything that went on in our podcast.

How real you guys keep it with Charleston White, okay. Like, he's a Internet sensation.

Yeah.

A phenomenon. Right. But I feel like on here, he could be comfortable. He could be himself. Y' all just keep it so real, so funky with him, that I feel like if he comes here, he's just being him. Not that I. You know, I don't know him anything personally, but what I see on the Internet when I watch him on this show is different.

It's a wild difference.

It's different. Yeah, he's him. But I feel like you guys bring something different out of your guest every single time. So I always tap in, man. From artists to that crazy, wild, crazy episode. I told my homegirl, Melanie, I'm like, hey, we gotta deal with. We gotta compete with that.

Which one? The.

I know which one.

The Brittany one.

Yeah, bro. Classic. But everybody watched it, like, hung on the edge of Their seat, mouth wide open. And big shout to Kato for holding it together.

Yo, Composure.

Composure.

The word of the week.

Finest.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because tell me if you would agree, 9 out of 10 guys would have done. Would have behaved in a different manner.

Absolutely.

In that situation.

Absolutely.

Big shout to this dude.

What a lot of people didn't see on camera. And I don't want to stay here too long. But prior to that, do you know who Shannon the Cannon is? Shannon Briggs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a New Yorker.

He was in the room that day and he caught the blunt out of it first. I believe they got into it first and she was barking him down. I said, if she feared, don't fear. This seven. He calls himself the Yeti. Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

This seven foot man. If she's barking this dude down, I'll go ahead and pick my battles. You got that? Because, wait, because when you engage in. You know what?

So let's get this on camera. You saying you ain't want no parts of her.

I just. It wasn't worth my time.

Okay.

Because if you engage in stuff like that, now you're part of the circus.

It gets bigger.

And now what I'm gonna do, splash you back. And you gotta understand the thing, too. She was filming some type of reality TV show. And what do they do on those sets? They spill water.

Yeah.

So I said, you know, I see what's going on. Let it ride.

That's a mature level, though, because, come on, man, everybody gave you so much props for that.

Not everybody, at least.

Thank you. My barbershop talk was like, yo. Kato held it down for real. Like, like, took one for the show, for the team. Like, yo, like, seriously, everybody says what they would have done in that situation. Makado was just like, listen, man. Yeah.

We got a job to do here. And from the beginning, our initial responsibility is to highlight the guest.

Yeah.

Okay. We give you enough rope to. That's not the best phrase, but we let you do what you need to do. Like I said earlier, you have every right to be who you need to be for yourself as long as it doesn't really interfere with who we are. And in that moment, I just kind of need to let her happen. Because friction makes fire. So let it.

Let it ride.

I wasn't about to start wrestling with Britney Brenner.

What.

What people don't know is I'm. I'm literally a black belt in Brazilian ju.

And I was going to mention that. I think that's his patience.

Yes.

Right. Like, that's His Zen.

Absolutely.

You know, so, like, I, I, I. He looked at me initially when everything started breaking out, and like, you want to stop this, or. And I'm. I looked at him like, this is gold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This. The show must go on, you know? But anyways, you know, enough about. We. We've spoken a lot about that, but it's always great to speak about it because it's such a. Such a great moment. But today we want to speak about you. Yeah.

So.

So take us back. I want for the people that are watching you today that for us not to be speaking to just the people that know you. Yeah. I want you to speak to the people that have never gotten a chance to know you. So.

Okay.

When we think about Charles Noonan, I want to know who you were early on. Was it Charles that, that mom called you? Were you Chuck? You know, like, what, what was the name in the household and what was the upbringing? Take us back.

Nah, a lot of they used to just call me C. Just C. That's it. That's what I'm known for. Like in New York City, basketball. Funny enough, a lot of people don't really. Don't know my full name. I'm just going to say the streets of New York, nobody really uses their real name. Right. So most people just know me as C. But growing up. Yeah. In New York City, man, that's what they used to call me.

Okay.

I got a start in real estate very early, though. So for an intro, I teach people. Real estate. I teach people.

I don't want to skip the upbringing, though. I don't want to skip mom and dad.

You want to just go shop?

Yeah, I want the people to know who you are. From the jump. What was the household like?

All right, so talk to us.

Both parents there, was it.

No, no, no. That wasn't common. No. So I grew up in the projects in. In the Bronx. Not. Not even grew up, I'm gonna say one or two years old. As far back. I can't even remember this part of my life. But the story goes where my father wasn't a part of it. We lived in an apartment building that had a fire. There was, like, a lot of commotion going on in the. In, I would say, in our small family structure, one brother, two sisters, mother and father. So when we move. So there's a fire, fire breaks out. We gotta move. My grandmother didn't like my father. There was friction, Right. So it was like, he can't come. So from there, already friction. And then this happens already Already friction, this breaks out. I story is he was abusive to my mother, right? So that's why he couldn't come. It was like, okay, right, this friction can't come.

Absolutely.

So, but I don't remember any of this. I'm young, so we moved in with my grandmother. Now it was a three bedroom house, small house in the North Bronx. So from there my uncle and his wife and two kids, which are my cousins, fall on hard times. So where do they go, right?

Grandma's.

They gotta come back to grandma's house. So now they in the basement and it's like, me, brother, two sisters, my mom's, my grandmother, my uncle, his wife, her two kids. And like everybody else's family, we got that sick aunt in the living room, right? Hooked up to like the fucking respirator, the machine, you know what I'm talking about, the oxygen receipt. But I'm going to say this, right, I can't claim, we didn't claim poor poverty. So we were on welfare, like, fucked up, real fucked up. I stood on welfare lines with my mom for hours, right? Back then, you had to actually go stand on the line. They give you the block of cheese, they give you the food stamps and the no frills food, stuff like that. But as a kid, right? And you just think the mind of a kid, if your favorite cousin get to move in with you, you ain't mad at all. It's a permanent sleepover, right? Howdy, partner. Next time you get chicken at McDonald's, you won't have to choose between the creamy flavors of ranch and the tangy kick of buffalo any longer. This time, enjoy all the flav love all at once. Try new creamy and tangy buffalo ranch sauce. I participated in McDonald's for a limited time. The block we lived on, it was, I'm going say, underdeveloped. So it wasn't uncommon for people to live like overcrowded and up situations.

We all trying to get it.

Yeah, so, so I, I could say it was like traumatizing and like the worst experience in the world. But it really wasn't until I got, until I really started to get older and understand like what was going on and how hard it was. That's when I realized, like, oh, I grew up bad. Like I grew up in some real mess, so to speak.

And a lot of people, I don't think we recognize it early on. I might have just caught that from you right there. Because when there was those times that somebody had to come to the house or we had to go to somebody else's house. It was like, oh, we gotta make this happen. Like, you know what I mean? Like I wanna, I wanna go to Theo so and so's house, you know, Thea's house or Abuela's house. Like I wanted to. Like for me it was just like that, that, that's the, the fun in it. You know, you get to hang out with your cousins and everything like that. And, and, and I never really, I never really thought about those times where for me it was more of a good thing where for my parents at that time to be a terrible thing to live.

Did you come from a similar background where you had cousins and family live with you?

Yeah, no, we just always had somebody that had to stay over for something, come back, they had a bad week or they, or you know, they got to stay there for a few weeks because they got to get back on their feet.

Yeah.

And we were in the slums of Buffalo, you know, so. Yeah, again like we spoke earlier, you know, the gas gets shut off, the electric gets shut off. They have to come over, you know what I mean? Until that bill is paid.

But so, so I went to my best friend's house down the block. I wasn't so my light. So like my real story, my moms would tell me she would have to choose between what bill to pay. Like the light bill, the gas. They were, they weren't connected, they were separated. Like the light was a bill, the gas was a bill, the, the. The water was a bill. Our water never got cut off. Water in New York is the last thing they'll let you ride out with the water bill being off for a while.

But to make sure you can still.

She had to choose. And I think kind of like the month, the time of the year, cuz it gets really cold. She would choose which bill she was going to pay. But again I'm like 11, 12, 13. It's not daunting to me. To me it's like, oh, I get cuz she ain't let me. She didn't let us stay at other people's houses. Like that was just a no go in my, in my family like you, you know, you don't. They just never trusted other people to let us go stay. However, the block we were raised on became a community because we all shared the similarities and just poverty, I'm gonna say. So when my lights got cut off, my sister went right across the street to, to the twins house. Like who are her best friends. My brother went to his friend's house across the street, like on the right side. I went to my friend's house down the block and it was just fun. It was like.

It wasn't video games, I'm guessing, right.

It's just wild. Just get to stay up late.

Yeah.

Stuff you wouldn't normally.

Atari. The Atari on the block wasn't at his house. It was. Moms was like, nah. You're like, nah. Y' all stay over there.

Yeah.

But no, it wasn't video game. But we just get to stay up and chill. Had a little crush on his sister. So it was like, you know, everybody.

Had a little excitement around every corner. She in this room too.

Yeah, that's so. That was dirt poor. Horrible. But so much fun. As you get older you realize. And we talk about like some of my drive sometimes never wanting my kids to see that pushes me so much. But sometimes now where we're older, so my mom's, I would say credit to her. All of us got college degrees. We all do well now. But there is something that's a little different in that we're not as close in proximity or as close as. As like tight knit anymore. So we all got money. We all, you know, live in different areas and the kids aren't as close as we were to our cousins.

What was your mother's mindset and the conversations like when she was facing those difficulties? Was she able to communicate those times to you that you kind of understood or was it just, you know, that's mommy and mommy's love and she kept it away from.

So we talked about energy earlier. Her energy.

We nep.

She never claimed like poverty. She never claimed being poor. When we. We would walk home with a watermelon. They used to give watermelons for welfare too. Right? And like the little quarter waters. Yeah. She would give those out to kids in the community. And I kind of understood it, but I really. I didn't understand money at the time. But it was like. Like we don't have a poverty mindset. We had more so of like an abundance mindset. So she was working different odd jobs. They would work hard, right? Double, you know, double shifts.

Yeah.

She worked at the school, then she worked somewhere else and she. We never really claimed it. The sweetest lady. The. I would I say this to this day, the nicest lady I've ever met. So that energy, like we had to really up to get that. That like anger to be taken out on us. Yeah. But it did when we up like the beatings was horrible. Overdone, Right. Super sweet. Nice Lady. But, like, was the belt thing.

The hanger? What was it?

The belt. But her, she likes short, right? So she gonna hit you with anything. She like. She like a short lady that could fight. So she just. Like, if. Like, if you trigger that, like, she gonna hit. She hit. Hit you with anything. Like, if it's close, she just, like, loses it. Bang.

The luxury of choice.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it wasn't. No. Oh, you're gonna get a beating. Go get the belt. It was like, what? And she just go.

She's just like, yeah.

And then you be like. Like. Like, oh, shit. She'll apologize later or explain later, right? So I'm the youngest. I'm the baby. So, you know, they gotta clean it up for me, right? Right. They gotta clean it up. But in my mind, I'd be like, but why would you throw a pot at me? Yeah, like punishment. I. That ain't qualify for punishment, a pot. And she just. Then I realized, like, all right, some real shit is going on. My brother bugging out. He's an older teen, and, you know, he beating people up in the neighborhood, and he's at that point where he's a little bit older of a teenager, so he's wilding because he got some going on in the house, right? Me, I'm just. I'm a little. Little shorty, so I don't really understand, but I'm seeing these things as I get older. Younger. You hear it, right? You. I gotta go to bed, whatever. But I'm seeing it now, like, oh, that was bad. And that's really what it was.

So going through school, was it. Was it something that was tough for you early on, going through school, or you were just acing through?

So my older sister was smart. Nah. So. So. So we would get our ass kicked if we ain't. If we fucked up in school.

Yeah.

Like, to get a phone call home was a major violation.

I'm busting my ass day in and.

Day out for you to go to school. Was it like that for you?

Oh, man, I don't know too many people that haven't heard that speech, you know?

All right, so, yeah, no, the rules still high. Yeah, right. You can't. You can't miss no day in school property or not.

You going to school, baby?

Yeah. So, yeah, school. I did have to wear my brother's pants, like, when I got tall, so I'm the tallest. So I. You know, we had to switch some clothes out, had to switch some sneakers out. But, yeah, nah, we had to go to school, like, she, my grandmother, she was obviously miserable because she went from being by herself to having 10 people in the house. So she didn't around like you, like there was no. She took no shorts. You do something, you getting. You getting your ass whipped. But she was big on education. Before she died, she got like a doctorate degree. So they always just pumped education, education, education. Which I will say, like it sinks in. Even though the kid may not show it. Right. Because we're teens and we bugging out doing teenager even. Like it sinks in. The, the word that your parent preaches, it sinks in. That's why you got like I would say dudes on the street who, when you really sit them down, like they could do the most heinous crazy in the street, but when you really sit them down based on who they was raised by, like they know wrong from right. They know that they did some. So oftentimes it's cuz they had to. And like they hear it. It's just sometimes people get caught doing dumb or people just life.

It's similar to having moody up here.

Right.

You know?

Well, you said it though. It sinks in. Like on initial touch, maybe it didn't hit right away, but it sinks in over time. That's one of those things, man, you start to appreciate it over time. It's like now I get what they were saying. Now I get why I had to sit at the table and finish my homework.

Yeah.

You know, like in that moment, it did not make too much sense. Why do I have to do this? Why do I have to eat my veggies? Like, you know, but in time it sinks in. Yeah.

So going through life and the journey that you've gone through and getting into college, what was your hopes? Like, what were you trying to be?

Extra value meals are back for just $5. Get a savory and sweet sausage, egg and cheese McGriddles plus hash browns and a coffee only at McDonald's for a lim. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California for delivery. A school teacher?

Is that what your mom was doing in schools?

Nah, she eventually got a job at transit. Like a stable job working for the city.

Okay.

And she excelled me there. But all I knew was like, my aunt was a school teacher. My, my oldest sister was a school teacher. And as I was in college, my younger, not younger, but my second oldest was a school teacher. They had the summers off and they got out of work at like 3. I was a basketball junkie. Like I. I say to this day, basketball saved My life because, like, as a. Just a kid growing up in the street, I lived between like, two notorious projects, right? It was like two, three blocks with private houses, and then it was like projects and like the Bronx was burning right up. But basketball really is what saved my life. It's really what got me into college. It's real. So I'm a scholarship athlete, okay. I ended up going to, like, probably like one of the worst schools in New York City through playing street ball. And they just like, threw me in the community school. And it just so happened by like, the grace of God, they had a scrimmage against. Imma just say, like, this rich private school coach. So I cooked. I killed them, right? Coach is like, yo, like, like, I need this dude. Right? First. First scrimmage, right? First scrimmage. They was trying to take me. And the coach was like, you know, favor from a street ball coach. He was like, nah, I need him for a year. And then you could take him. So I went to like a. I'm just say like a regular school in the Bronx, A regular college in the Bronx. We call them the 13th grade, right? And then I got a scholarship to a private school, Caldwell University, and I played basketball there. And that's what saved me. That's really what saved me. Because being in that environment now, I was exposed to a different way of living. I was exposed to, like, good financial habits. I was exposed to like, yo, Charles, we don't. We. We don't eat bullshit. Like, we don't eat chicken wings and, and pork fried rice, right? I didn't know that's what. That's. That's what I ate when I got money.

Yeah.

On Fridays when we got money, we automatically went to the Chinese food store. Yeah, right. It was like Friday pay. Like, that was a treat in my household. Chicken wings and French fries. Yeah, pork fried rice was a treat.

Made it another week. Let's go get some Chinese.

Did they have the Chinese stores in Buffalo?

Hell yeah, they did.

So you know what I'm talking about.

You sit there chilling, like, eating that so long.

Chilling like you don't know what I'm talking about.

It wasn't Panda Express. There was an actual panda. There was an actual store called Panda in, In. In. In Buffalo. Buffalo, man.

Like the real deal.

The pork fried rice was so.

You know what I'm talking about? I see this look on your face. It's blank, but it's like, yeah. Oh, he had.

The pork was actually like red. You know what I mean?

Come on, bro. Come on.

The pork was red.

Yeah. Y. What I'm talking about.

Yeah.

All right, all right. Good, good, good. Yeah, y' all like. Like thinking about what you used to order, and you get a little duck sauce and sauce. Pour the on. It's probably the most unhealthy you could ever eat.

Yeah, I'd never. I mean, I might. After this conversation, I might have a meal, but. No, that. That is. I don't eat like that either. But. But you could go ahead.

Speak real, though. You know what I'm talking about.

Chinese is like, hood, hood, classic hood legend, because everybody can eat. And it was like, you kind of, like you said, just, you know, for my household, too, it was. We made it to another Friday. We made it to another check. We eat good on this day. Like, we celebrate our small victories. If It's a little 400, 500 check, you know, time relative. But let's go ahead and get some good food, you know, Sunday. Sunday breakfast was a little bit better, you know, because.

Give me that damn fortune cookie with the fortune cookie.

Why do we read the fortune cook and. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Worse, worse, worse. Yo, why did we believe the fortune cookie and save it? Tell me you ain't say save it. D. Look. Tell me you ain't save a fort. Cookie in the small pocket. Definitely in the small pocket of your jean. Yeah, Swirled up.

I had all the fortune. We used to fight.

There was.

There was five of us. I had five siblings. So we fortune cookies. Hoping my fortune. That's why. That's why I said it. Give me the damn fortune cookies as soon as that bag opens.

What do you mean, share it? You can't share it, right?

So. So you're speaking of. Of basketball and how you were cooking people. So it was a school teacher over being a basketball star?

Hell, no. That's all I knew. I didn't know. And this is why I'm so passionate about what I do today. There was nobody really showing people careers that they could do and how to do them. That's all I knew. So I wanted to just be. Be on the street playing ball. I wanted to be with my friends, even in college. So my mom's as. At a certain point, you know, I got bigger, stronger. I'm in the streets hooping. Like, basketball is my thing. Like, I would claim basketball as it wasn't the corner. It wasn't. Whatever it was. Like, yo, man, I was good, and I played with my older brother, so I got good early. So that was just, like, my identity as a per. As a. As A person.

Yeah.

So when it came time for school, I was like, I was going to school for basketball and girls. I was going to win a championship. Academia and try to get a degree and build a network of friends to go open a business and do business with each other was foreign to me. That wasn't what I was going to school for. I was going to school to come back on the block to say, yo, I got a scholarship. I'm that guy and I'm better now. I'm better than everybody now. That's what school was for to me. They told me like, yo, do education. Cause you'll be a good teacher. Kids like you, right? The kids on the block all like you and so be a teacher. Plus you get out early, you get like vacations off in summer. Yeah. I was like, oh, this sounds dope. I could do that. So here's what I said. My mind as a, as a kid, right? As a, let's just say 18, 19, 20 year old, whatever. 17, 18, 19. This is why I took this major in social studies, right? History never, never changes. So what happened in 1895? 1795 never changes. And I'm just going through my mindset, right? This is what I figured. I could learn that one time and give the same lessons over and over for the rest of my life or my teaching career and my job would be super easy. Because, right? What happened is 1895, it ain't going to change.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm like, I could just. Yeah, I was like, yo, I just got to learn this stuff one time, teach the same thing, and I'm out of here, right? So that's how I ended up really getting a bachelor's in social studies and a minor in early childhood education. No guidance, nobody. They like, everybody was playing ball in the hood. That was your. If you won the summer league, like, like there's like 10 leagues in New York City. If you won those, you valid. That's your championship. You can now walk around New York City. If you won Rucker park, you won Gun Hill, you won Dyckman, you won Watson Classic, you won Orchard beach, that's your championship. Everywhere you go in New York City, they praise you.

Status.

So nobody's really trying to get to college like that. Like that's where I'm from. That wasn't like the thing. The players went to college. They got Division 1 scholarships. They went, they failed out. They came right back home on the block. Some of them went to the league for a minute and it's so up that when you came home, you went to the league and you bounced back. Now you are failure and you made it. Yeah, right, right. They'd be like, went to such and such and bounced right the back. You trash.

He's a bum. He's a bum.

Like, like, yo, he's a bum. But when you come right back, that shit's a failure. Word, right or wrong?

Yeah, that is interesting.

You a failure. God forbid. You made it all the way and you got cut before the season start, you really a bust. You trash. You horrible. And they will make you think that they're better than you. And they, they ain't been inside of step one foot inside of a college.

Yeah.

So. So that's why I say it saved my life, man. Like, like I would say the streets was, was nice enough to me or the basketball guys. I don't know who did it, man. But when I got that scholarship and I got put in that, that different environment, although I thought it was corny, although I thought like, like I was better than everybody because I'm from New York City, I still changed without wanting to change, right? So the music they listen to and this is, this is why I'm so big on environment as a person. And talking about our conversation earlier, Right. I think those people that are weak, if you put them in a strong environment, they can excel. Because I was an environment where I wanted to eat bullshit. I wanted to eat Chinese food. I wanted to like, get a credit card. I wanted to get. I wanted to give a credit card company my Social Security number for a $500 credit card in exchange for a T shirt. And they were like, yo, dude, you don't got no job. Like, like you can't. Like we don't do that. Yeah, right. You don't have a job to pay it, so we do it. So we are like, what are you going to do by Chinese? You won't go in debt. You're going to buy everybody on the campus Chinese food and liquor and you can't pay more Chinese and you're going to mess your shit up. So they was like, nah, like, we don't do that. Right? Just wait. We get our laundry money, we gonna get money, whatever the case may be. And crisp air, cozy playlists and a car that just gets me with OnStar, everything is effortless available. Super cruise driver assistance tech lets me drive hands free so I can enjoy an easy ride. Google Assistant lets me call, text and navigate without lifting a finger. And if I forget where I parked after running errands, vehicle locate Helps me remember my spot. This season we could all use a little ease. And OnStar makes sure the drive feels more comfortable than ever before. OnStar better never stops. And you just go without until you get it and then you'll be fine. So they're like, hey coach, gonna open up bookstore camps, like opportunities to make money. And that's why I learned like financial fortitude, financial literacy and financial discipline. Like if I don't have money for something, I really just don't buy it. I'm cool, I'm cool without it until I get enough to buy it. Don't.

That sounds so simple, you know, and some people, so many people, something that people really genuinely struggle with.

Absolutely.

Such a simple tweaking a mind state. That's why earlier maybe I answered that incorrectly. But under my assumption is just information and you know, knowing what you the can and cannot should and should not do. Like not enough people there, not enough opportunities where people throw the rope back and give you that financial literacy and give you that financial discipline.

Yeah.

They don't have access to that information, you know, but here we are, right. This is where.

Yeah.

Your type of programs and your type of community orientated things. This is where that stuff comes into play and makes a change. Yeah, it's wild, man. It isn't something that is taught in school. And I asked myself about that, like about credit, like, how come I didn't know about this? How come I didn't learn about this? If my mother hadn't found out through, you know, trial and error, I wouldn't have a shoe in the way. I did come about to learn about credit and yeah. You know, your scores and things like that. And I realized it's kind of like a game. It's like I can't tell you how to win the game, you know?

Yeah. Oh, that's big.

I can't tell you how to win the game. Okay, say it again. So it's like you gotta seek that information and find out.

Do. Did you go to college?

Some. Did I complete college? No.

You went to college.

Yes, I went to college for maybe three months and just wasn't working out.

It wasn't working out. Did you see.

Tried to teach me something and I was like, there's no chance that I'm ever gonna meet this.

Try to teach me something.

And I just, I stood up and I got the hell out of it.

He just left.

Yeah.

But did you guys realize like when you were there, did y' all see those credit card companies that were offering credit cards and all kind of, I mean I went to college and I seen all that. They be lined out first week of school. Nobody has a job, like you said, giving out T shirts, giving out credit cards and Frisbees. Yeah, Frisbee, yeah. Give me your social. For a Frisbee.

Sounds like a joke, but it's real.

Predatory. That's the word, predatory. You got kids that just left home, right? 8, 17, 18 year old kids just left home and they say give me your social and for a Frisbee, like that's the most predatory shit I can.

Even when you first open up a bank account, that's the first thing they're trying to do.

No, but it's different on the college campus.

No, I'm just saying like it's, it starts immediately as you step into adulthood and you, you're gonna pay your own bills and you want to get a job. As soon as you decide to.

They're already.

It's just boom, capture. It's like, let's that that predatory lending begins.

Yeah, it's wild, man. If you don't know any better. That's why like there's so many people whose stuff is messed up. That's why I mean it just, it is what it is. It could be like you said to go deeper. The other side of the fence is like, oh, don't tell them, right? We're gonna get them in debt. We're gonna keep them in debt. We're gonna make them take that job and have to stay there. We're gonna make them take that job where they, where they really can't leave because they got these bills. We're gonna make both of them co sign for that first car.

The cosign is the, is one of the craziest things.

I don't know. Two people that can't afford it doesn't help.

I don't know for the show, but the cosign is crazy. I don't know if it was created to help people really or just to make more sales.

To make more sales, you know what I'm saying? We live in a consumer economy, but that's like, is for more people to buy.

But that's like, okay, we at the club, right? And I'm interested in two women over there, right? This is so bad. One's a four, one's a six and I say God damn it, I got me a 10. No, that's it. That ain't what it is. When you're speaking about co signing financially, you're getting somebody to basically vouch for you and say, if he can't pay, I'm gonna help him pay it. We are both good. Let's help each other. We will put our joint efforts, whatever line of credit that we have, whatever history of credit that we have, we will together come together and make this happen.

Damn. No.

And for that, you got the two girls. A six and a four.

Don't make it 10. Don't make it 10.

I don't know if that was the best analogy for what we try to do, bro. People said I come up with some weird ass analysis.

I'm trying to serve it to you fast food. So y' all get what I'm saying.

Six and the ten.

Six and a four.

A six and a four makes a ten. Don't.

Co signing purposes.

Here's why I think co signing is bad, right? Here's why I think it's bad. Because realistically, only one person is going to get the car. So Cato gets the car and don't pay. I signed for him to help him get it, but I'm not paying for it because I didn't drive the car. I don't even get the car. There's no co signers that share the car equally. You driving it. Oh, he ain't pay. Let me call him. Yeah, Cato. Hey, you gotta pay that bro. They calling me now.

I told them I don't got. I'm gonna tell you, I don't got it, you know, and it does increase.

The fear a little bit, right. To make the payment when you do have a co signer.

But it doesn't work.

No, absolutely. And. And my brother taught me that lesson young because I really wanted a car. You know, I don't have the credit for it. I'm like, my brother, could you. He's going to be a co signer and he was cool with it.

Yeah.

Up to this level of car. None of them that I wanted.

Yeah.

You know, Right.

Nothing you wanted. Yep.

And as soon as I'm like, oh, I want that one, he's like, yeah, we're gonna leave here, we'll have a talk later about it. And I was, I was mad, you know, at first, of course I didn't understand it. You know, my. It was my older brother, he's just telling me, he's like, nah, we're not doing that. And you know, I. I had some repossessions on my record early on. So my brother Gito, you made the right decision. All right.

But you still had repos.

Yeah, early on, I still messed up Definitely.

That's crazy. So. So in that repo sitcho, was you, like, like, parking a car a couple blocks away from the house and everything?

Nah, I just didn't think it was gonna happen.

You left it right there.

Yeah, it was outside at work. My sister was damn near beating up the repo man.

She wasn't trying to let him take it.

Oh, she. She got. Yeah, she got arrested.

Wait, have you ever told this story before?

I haven't, no.

You gotta drop it, bro.

So I'm at work.

She's like, damn it.

You told them. You know, you told them when you.

She was working. She was working for me.

When you got the car, though, you put down where you worked, so you probably. No, no, they.

You know, they find you on those. They. They either have something under the car to figure out what it is, or they're circling around. They know everything, you know, they know how to skip trace and get the info. But, yeah. So I'm at work, and my sister's like, michael, you know, it's just like, what the hell is going on? And I said, and my sister, she's. She's aggressive. So I'm trying to calm her down. They're trying to. I was like, let them take it. I'll just go pick it up. You know, I got the money to pick it up. I just haven't made the payments. It's fine. Just let them take it.

They ain't taking your car.

Get in there and drive off. And she's amping me up, like, all right, I'm gonna try to get in there and drive off.

So she's.

The guy tries to stop, like, get closer to me.

Yeah.

She goes crazy on him, Spits on him. You know, she's. She's. She's ready.

I've heard you say this a couple times.

Yeah, Buffalo.

Yeah, Buffalo. Yeah. So she does. She doesn't play. She does not play to this day, she does not play mine either.

And I know your sister turn up like that, you kind of. You. You gotta do it. You can't let your sister tell your brother she got into it. Nah, you gotta tell us what you're not saying, bro. She.

She just. You know, cops came. My sister don't care about no damn.

Right.

So they try grabbing her.

Poof.

She pushes him off. She runs. The guy's got. Obviously got the whip now. The whip's gone. It's going. It's going.

Yeah.

No, it's going anyways because there's too many cops there. We're not getting out, you know, so. So in my office, the door, when you close it, when you close the door, it locks. That's it. You're not getting in. You know, you got to get buzzed in. So my. So the cop grabs her. Male cop, female cop, the male cop has her. She spins off, opens door, closes. She gets into the doors, closed. The cops on the other side. Now I'm. I'm just walking into the first door because there's this door, that door, and then there's the stairs. But after that, you're not getting up. So I walk in and I see the door.

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Like, open this guy. And my sister's like, you. You know, she's like, what are you doing good? She's. She, she just goes bananas. And I'm sitting there, I turn around middle, and he's like. The cop turns around and he's like. But he's saying it to the other copy. Doesn't know. I just, yeah, witnessed it.

Yeah.

And I was like, you know, so I'm a too. And I'm like, word, do something about it. So now I get aggressive, right. And now I'm screaming over there and they're like, you better get her down here. Eventually, she turned herself in like an hour and a half later. Got arrested for a little bit, but picked her up in the morning. And I'm like, damn, we like, we didn't even have to do all that.

Right? Right.

I mean, just let him take it. Like, I got some money, I just pick it up.

You ain't pick her up in the car, did you?

Yes, I did.

In the car that she got arrested. Oh, that's funny. But.

But it's just, you know, like, this is life. So, you know, we've all witnessed it. A lot of people don't know that even like that, that they see me up here and cater up here to like just podcast guys. They just do podcasts. Nice guys. But, you know, we've all lived a real life. Back to you, you, you. How many years were you in college?

Five.

Five years.

Yeah, I was on a five year plan.

So you left around 2002. The range one, right. 2001.

I graduated 2000.

Okay. Now when you're out of school is when you jumped into real estate. And I did, I did hear a story of the reason you got into is because your mother put a property under your name.

And my brother. Okay, yeah, they was. They basically, that's what they did. They was like, let me use your social right again. The co sign our community, bro. Like, I've had Con Edison bills, which is a light and power in my name, cable in my name. All. Every bill been in a lot of people's kids. So I think. I don't think nothing of it. I'm going to school, struggling in the struggle, but I'm cool. Cause it's like, yo. And this is another thing kids don't do. Kids aren't okay with struggling. You can't get a kid to just be cool with not having. It's like they sometimes gotta have this instant thing that they decide they want. Especially now with social media, they want to show off all the time. They would never, ever post a past due bill. It kills us. It kills us. Yeah. So. So my brother wasn't doing well as far as like the workforce, right? He's like, street dude. And I knew, like, I didn't think he had any real estate education to know how to buy a property, rent it out, do the math where it makes sense, and execute on it. My mom said no, she's like, whatever. Y' all say, like, whatever. We got to do something to start changing. We gotta start doing some stuff. So they bought a property tax time came and, you know, they like AC going to other room. And I was like, let me see. You know, the accountant is there now. Old dude, family account. Do everybody stuff in the whole neighborhood, right? Doing the taxes. And he's like, you know, he could take a look. So I took a look. I seen they made $48,000. They got 12. They got 12 payments of 4,000 from section 8. They bought a house in the hood, rented it out, and was making money off of it. So my name is on it. And I was like, like, y' all ain't giving me no money. I'm. I'm like hurting over there in school, doing all kind of, you know, we from New York. We gonna figure out how to make money in school regardless. We on scholarship and three years away from a degree. We just gonna do whatever, right? So in my mind, I was like, if those made $48,000, I know I could make money, right? I know I could kill it. So eventually they took the name the house out. My name refinanced, it got me off the house. And then when I first came home from school, that was like, one of the things that I really had my heart set on was like, getting in the game of Real estate. And me, my roommate and one of my really close friends, we bought a house in the hood, and we was trying to do the same thing, basically.

And is that something that you had, like, resentment towards your family for. For a little bit.

So we were close. Not long. The. Not. Not really long. Right. So moms is moms. I'm the baby. Like, she could do no wrong in my eyes. Right. I'd be like, more. So my brother put her up to it. But that's my brother. Right. So through thick and thin, we always been like. Like, you know, that's my heart.

Yeah.

So even though I know why you.

Did it, but I'm not.

I know why you did it, but, like, you, like, you could have threw me something, right?

Let me get some Chinese.

Like, I'm hurt. Like, we up there hurting, bro. My. My teammates are really taking care of me. They would drive me back to New York. They would bring me home for Thanksgiving. My roommate lives in. He lived in Hackensack at the time. So on the weekends, because I have no money to get home. Right. We would just go home. He's from New Jersey. The school's in New Jersey. He would bring me to, like, home for fun stuff, and his people would take care of us. So I'm up there struggling, but having fun again, still. So it ain't, you know, when you young and somebody. One person got money. It's cool, right? It's like, you ain't really.

You with me tonight.

Yeah. You ain't really mad about it, but.

Once in a while, they're like, you could throw some gas money in there, you know? Yeah, whatever.

You got it. So that's probably why I ended up doing a deal with him at first, because it's like, yo, we have to make it on our own. Like, if I'm gonna make it, you gonna make it too, right? Right. Like, I got. I got in the same place. Yeah. So.

And you've seen. I've seen it work. So it's like. I know.

Yeah.

This ain't guesswork. It's not like. Well, I hope it's not like playing a lot of. It's like there's an equation to this. We just got to learn how to do it.

So we ain't. We ain't get to that equation.

No, not out the game, bro.

We did. Do they do roaming houses in Buffalo?

What is that like?

Like, you get a three bedroom apartment, but you rent it out as rooms?

Oh, yeah, sure.

So like a shared space.

Yeah, shared space. Yeah, completely type of Situation, right? Completely illegal in New York City. But the math made more sense than to rent it out. Section eight. So section eight, it was, let's say, like a house, $216,000. Section eight, the mortgage was like 1800. 16, 1800, right. Section eight may have paid, say 1500 for the first floor apartment, 15 for the second. That's $3,000. With three people on the house, the mortgage is eight. Is 16, 1800. We only making $1200. That ain't enough really, for me to be giving you $4,000. $8,400 a month is like, no. So here we go. Bright ideas, right? We like I rooms in New York City was a thing like you can rent out rooms, shared living. So we chopped it, chopped the houses up like that. And we made a lot of money doing it like that. And then we bought a bunch of houses.

Okay.

Also, the mortgage industry, I don't know if you guys know, went through a time like in 2008, 2009, where they say the bubble busted. So as the Bronx started getting built up, as neighborhoods started to get built up by, I will say, developers, they would sell. They would. They would buy these houses super cheap. So let's just say the Bronx is burning vacant houses. Is. Is messed up. Corporate companies will buy these houses, sell them back to fix them up, sell them back to people for a lot of money. They need these no income, no asset loans. They need people like us3 to co sign and get in and buy it for 200,000 when they paid 50. Right. So at that point, this is why I busted. They was giving everybody mortgages back then with very little qualifications. They doing the cosign. Hey, Charles, yours is a five, his is a 200. Y' all got a 700 credit score. They're giving houses away. So we leveled up like crazy back then. Wow.

And around what time was this?

Oh, eight. So from graduation from school, like 01, we owned houses. I'm gonna say probably between the three of us, at least like 15 houses. 15 rooming houses. So we driving around New York City, the three of us, collecting rent from individuals in rooms every Saturday, getting it going crazy. Of course, you rent into the lowest of the low, right?

Yeah.

So it starts to get a little active. It start getting a little crazy. People not real busy, not paying. We trying to throw them out. They trying to stay. We get into that whole landlord tenant thing.

It get.

It gets a little active.

Yeah. So riding around, listening to 50 Cent, collecting them payments.

Yeah. Mob deep blasting before we pull up, right? Oh, man, mob, deep mop like.

Like the else can have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good.

That's good money collecting music, though.

It is. No, we was eating for. For a while, but obviously education started to. To sink in, knowing that we couldn't do this forever. Like, you can't. You. You can't play bully ball, right? And. And you can't make a living off of being. Being bullies, right? Off of demanding people pay or they leave. That's just not a good business model, right?

Longevity.

They calling the cops. Eventually they get smart. They call the city, the city inspectors. Like, hey, you're not supposed to be doing this anyway, so it started to get a little shaky and you lose your whole jig. But here's the blessing. Here's the blessing. The bubble was about to pop. It was about to go crazy. So what we bought for 200,000, we were selling these houses at 400, 450, $500,000. So we were killing the game when we sold our houses. Like, we became hood rich. Wayfair's big sale is returning. Get ready for way day. For four days only, score up to 80 off all things home with free shipping on everything from October 26th through 29th, score Wayfair's best deals, like up to 80% off area rugs, up to 60% off mattresses, up to 60% off bedroom furniture, and more exclusive door buster deals. So mark, mark your calendar and shop Wayday starting October 26th at Wayfair.com Wayfair. Every style, every home. If we was already hood rich because we was making money, but we became.

Hood rich, y' all were in position.

That first time in your life where we really got money is when we started to sell our houses and unload.

And this was before the pop, right.

Before, I'm gonna say 2008, 2009. I remember closing a deal. 903 Home street is in the Bronx. I remember closing this deal. And the guy was starting to have trouble with the mortgage company that I sent him to. I knew the lady because we did so many mortgages, and she was like, yeah, I don't know if this is going to go through. I was like, oh, Damn. Like, that's 250 cash for me. And I'm 26, 7, 8 years old. Big deal, right? So it went through. We kind of sold most of them. I probably held like one or two. My friends held one or two. One got caught up, though. One got. He didn't make the cut. He ain't make the cut. He. He, he he didn't make his payments. Foreclosed on the house. Okay, Right. Tenants, they just get smart over time. They know how to beat you. They know to call the cops as soon as you come. So you trying to collect. You trying to throw them out. They're calling the cops, right? And now. So we got money.

That's why I believe in the Republican way. Forget him. The up out of it.

I got a shout out for your guys in my pocket. I don't know if I'm.

I don't use it all.

Yeah, yeah, you get a little shout out for us. I got a little shout out for your guys. But yeah, man, so we got caught. So we. He got caught in the Matrix, but we had money, so, you know, we. Thank God, man. Like, I feel blessed sometimes that I made it unscathed, right? Like, un. Completely unscathed. Like, some days I just wake up and feel so blessed because there's so many things that could have went wrong for me in my life and I'm where I am today day, so.

But you didn't just get there, right? Like, you had a career at American Express for a while. Was that prior or after?

No. So right after that, I was. I chilled for a year, actually, right. So I had my son and I didn't grow up with a father, so I wanted to like, do all the things that never. That I just imagined a father would do or do stuff like that. So I just chilled for a whole year home and just like I had a nanny. And I just like, you probably relate to this. Some people gonna call it weird and soft, but, like, I would take naps with my son, right? Isn't that a blessing?

I take a nap with my son every week.

Well, you're talking to.

Every single day.

You gotta keep it a honey.

I ain't wanna really be every single day.

That's gangster to me, right? Like, yo, I hit you back. I'm taking a nap with my son.

Yeah.

There's so many of us that didn't grow up with a father or even a mother. So for a mother to be like, I'm taking. I'm doing my daughter's hair right? And for you to be like, yo, I'm taking a nap. I can't. I can't make that meeting. Let's do it at five. That's real, like, priceless, man. Priceless to me. Like, that's. That's the win in life to me where you get to do things like that.

Yeah.

So I chill for a while, then, of course, you Know, we young. Wow. Still in the street, still playing ball, driving the crazy cars and everything. We all looked at each other, was like, yo, we gotta. We gotta do something. That money. Stop that money. Started spending so fast. So one of my college roommates, he was like. He was at Enterprise, and he was like a manager, so he would wear suits and everything. And we kind of, like, was like, all right, so we got to get a job. Like, bro, help us with a job. Like. Like, tell us what to do.

I want to wear suits, too.

You know, I just wanted the money, man. I ain't really that suit guy, so. So he really. We really, literally, we sat down with him, and he taught us interview questions, and we reviewed interview questions. We went on interviews. So we made up resumes, put them on Monster Career Builder. We went on interviews, answered the questions as best as we could, went back to my man, and like, yo, when they ask you this, what do you say? When they ask you this, what do you say? Yo, they asked me this. I didn't know what to answer, right? So from that, we actually got jobs. Like, we straight fake, made up the resume workshop, the interview, man. Yeah, but, like, we owned businesses, so we. We actually knew, like, how to run a business. Yeah, we knew, like. Like payroll. We knew marketing, we knew customer service, we knew sales. I think naturally, you're a salesperson. You built the characteristics growing up in the hood to be a phenomenal salesperson. You know how to read people, right?

Oh, yeah.

Without them saying anything or with them saying very little. You know how to read people. Street smarts, right? So. So when I got a job, it was easy. Like, every job I ever worked at, I dominated. And when we would come back home or call each other, be like, yo, this work is. Is easy. Like, I'm at the top of the ranking report. I'm like, so this is all I got to do, Just sell. And people looking at me like, like, I'm cheating. So I've come to work. So my first job actually was like, my first job after owning businesses, right? So fresh out of college, I had a job for like a year or two. And then we went through selling properties, then owning businesses, then to working again. So I had to work. I worked@yellowbook.com, right? I don't know if y' all remember those commercials, but it was like one of these early marketing companies, okay? It was like the yellow books pages, but they. They had it online, okay? So I was doing marketing for them, and I had a territory, and it was like, go sell at Go sell ads in the. The website, like, the banner and all of that stuff. So. So I had a BMW. I had a 745. That's what was out. But I was. I was at a job that. It was like an entry level sales job. They would look at me like, yo, what's up with this dude?

Where's he from?

Like, something's wild about this dude.

He's hustling.

But I was on my job. I was like, all right, if I can make six figures, like, just show me how and I'm gonna go do it. So I was killing it the clean way, too. Killing it. It was easy because it was like, yo, you just go talk to people. How's business? Good. All right, so do. Do an ad. It'll be better. Business is bad. I. You need to do an ad. People are looking for you, but you not where they looking. And it just makes sense. Right? Right. It's. You're doing bad because you're not in the. In the. In the. You're not online. Where they going to look. Everybody's going online for a plumber and you not online. So I dominated again. Here's another blessing, right? I wasn't even looking for this. Everybody. And so we shared a building with American Express or we shared office space close to American Express. All the people@yellowbook.com would apply for this job. These jobs at American Express. I get a call from, like, the hiring director. He's like, charles Noonan, I need you. I was like, yo, who is this? Like, what do you want? He's like, I got four ranking reports this month. Your name is at the top. You are who I want to hire. Just straight blessing out of nowhere. I don't know anything about American Express. They denied me credit card four times. So I ain't even feeling American Express, right. This one, they denied everybody.

So.

So actually, whoa.

Yeah, you got denied, too.

I mean, I just remember that time where it was such a. It was such a. It was almost like a status symbol to have to be a part of American Express. I remember the green card.

Did you get denied? That's the magic question.

I didn't apply at that time. I was around that time. I was still young.

Neither did I. So, no, I only applied when I was able to get it.

When it was a no. When you was definitely.

Right.

Right. That's what I. Yeah.

So there was a time where, like, they just took, like, one out of. There was no formula. There was a mystique. Great branding, though. There was a. Mystique about having the car. Yeah, so. Hey, hey, it's Brooke England here from Deposits. And if you're a fan of culture and business, then be sure to check out and subscribe to Deposits, where I interview dope individuals and celebrities of the culture. And we get into contracts, entertainment, and my favorite part, payouts. It's brought to you exclusively by the Revolt Podcast network. Anchored in hip hop, powered by creators, went there and dominated. And dominating. I got my friend a job. I got two, right? The guy that helped us get the jobs is the VP of American Express right now. So I got in there, killed it. I brought my man who I own the houses with. I'm like, yo, I did 175% to my, to, like, the, not the director, the VP. I'm like, look, I did 175. We gotta bring my guy in. I know he could kill it. I' ma train him, bring him in. This dude straight ged, straight from the streets of Harlem, right? Straight hustler. But he's, he's, he's like, my, my, my people, my guy, I got him in. So he gets in, he kills it. And I'm like, so now, right, we gotta let him in because he, we wouldn't have jobs without him, right? So we got him in, and today he's the VP at, He's one. He's the VP of his division at American Express.

That's fire.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my guy.

That's dope.

Shout out.

Yeah. So American Express was a success and a learning experience for you, I'm guessing.

Yeah, yeah, but, but it's something about. So my job was to work with companies that have revenue revenues of like 2 to $250 million. I, I, I think I just have this entrepreneurial spirit. There's no way I could make 3, 2, $300,000 and be around companies that are making 2 million, 4 million or 12 million. So my time there was, I dominated. It was dope. It was like, you get the key to the city because they got the suite at the Garden. The Barkley center opened up.

How long was that tenure?

Six or seven years. Probably seven years in total.

Pick up a lot of game in that time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

From a corporate standpoint, you know, learn a lot.

Yeah.

Just adding to your bag of tricks as an entrepreneur, you, you know, one.

Of the, one of the things I learned, the people that run these companies aren't, like, super. They're not the smartest people in the world. They're not better than anybody. They Oftentimes are just in position. Like you said, they may get the information on something because I would entertain them. So I'm hanging out with them, and I'm really getting to know people and understand business. And it's more so like information drive, putting it into action. Yeah, right. Your network, because you might own a camera company, he's gonna have a. A tripod company, and he's gonna have a. A dummy battery company. And you guys been doing business for 20 years because your pops had a store where you sold all three, right?

And you know what they lacked? What weakness those people lack? There could be there, but those. Those people that know how to works and.

And.

And be able to deliver day in and day out. You know what I mean? Like, you got. You gotta. You gotta be hardened in order to keep going towards that and build those things.

I would. I would agree. And. And the sooner you embrace that, the sooner you embrace failure. A lot of times, I think people scared of failure.

Absolutely.

They. That's the biggest thing, like, coming from where I come from, right? If I say, yo, Danza, Kato, yo, yo, I could go meet with the people that run Don Julio. They trying to give us, like, 52 mil. Y' all gonna be like, all right, bet. What you want me to. What you need me to do, right?

What's that looking like?

And if I come back and don't get the contract, we gonna laugh at it. We gonna joke. We're embracing it. Like, yo, good try.

Yeah, Like.

Like, for me to go to get a job at American Express, going on an interview, I was fearless. I'm like, one. I'm kind of cool to. Like, I ain't giving me the card anyway. Y' all got to tell me about the job. But meanwhile, it was like this coveted job in the city, right? And it's just that I didn't care because I was kind of cool, and I wasn't afraid for them to tell me no. Yeah, right. I've never been afraid because of where I started, right? And. And like you said, you got to be hardened. Where I started from to where I am, I'm so hardened that a no does nothing to me. I already made it in my mind, right? Like, what's a no? What's a no really gonna do to somebody like me who came from, like, absolutely nothing. I'm you. I'm so used to know that is laughable, right? It almost fuels me to be like, yo, let's go to Ciroc, yo, let's go to such and such, yo, I Can't wait to put. To put another brand on the table and show them that that's all it does. It doesn't defeat me, and it definitely doesn't, like, shake me in any way.

Yeah.

Well.

And to your point, by. In doing so, maybe Don Julio said no. But now when you go to Ciroc, you're armed with the information that you got from that initial experience now had. You never even had the brevity to say, don Julio, I want to work with you. You don't know what the could have happened, you know, good or bad. So the fact that you went and failed, like we say, fail early, fail fast.

Yeah.

So you could, you know, gain the most traction in the long run. It's absolutely real.

From an entrepreneurial standpoint, that's the way to get. That's the way to get it. You find out. You find out what they want. Even if it's a no. You find out, like, what the qualifications are.

Yeah.

Right. And if you really. If you really about what you want, are you trying to get, you have the heart to double back and say, hey, Cato, I know you told me no, but I'm a professional and I really want this. Could you explain to me why. Could you tell me why we. Why you ain't. Why you ain't signed with us?

Right?

Oh, we. We curse on the pod. We endorse certain political candidates. Right. Oh, because we. We, we.

We.

We look a little. A little bit on the rad side sometimes. All right, cool. Hey, bro, yo, let's just do a whole nother segment on that. On that dude you love, bro. But I think we could get Sarak, because now they said everything else was hitting, but we can't be, like, promoting during the freaking nomination.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Facts. That's how you get it. Yeah.

You know, and those no's really are fuel. Like, take it all the way back, right. For us as men, you walk up to a girl, you know, you go to get her phone number. Back in the day, you go to get her phone number. Not her Instagram, not the app. Right. And I always. I always shot for the stars. Always. You know, those festivals in the city, you know, they got the big festivals. You see the pretty girl walking by, I'm like, I'm gonna go get her number. And as soon as it was mentioned and you're with your boys, you don't got a choice. You either walk out of that. That little area you're in, sitting in the corner, and you go make that move, or the rest of It. You're just getting shit on.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So you got to do it for me. I was always like, whatever, you know what I mean? If she says no to me, it's cool. You know what I mean? But it's. I'm gonna play the game. Right?

Anyway.

Just give me. Here, just write this on a.

You know what I mean?

Just write this out here. It's cool.

You're right.

Get you anyway, you know what I mean? And that was. And that was my. That was my mindset, is I'm gonna get you anyway. So you can say. You can say no right now, but that's cool. I'm gonna see you later now, you know. You know what I mean? So. So regardless, you won't be able to deny me for that long, you know? I mean, I was that confident. Even if the no stood forever, it didn't matter. But we learned through sales that it takes six. It takes six nos to even get a yes.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? You're not supposed to get the. The girl I'm with right now told me no from the jump, you know, didn't matter.

Yeah.

Now we got two kids.

You know, sometimes. No. You could just. How you look at it, too, right? No. In. In. In the successful entrepreneurial world is next opportunity. Hello. So she's gonna say no. But the girl in the next section or the next one that you go up to. Right. Is the next opportunity. And go see if you could get that. And then before the night is over, you might come home with like. And did y' all used to play the game, see who could get the most numbers? Hell, yeah. Everybody. Oh, my God. Who could get the most? Right? That is something. Is fun. But like you said, it hardens you.

Yeah.

Because now you feel like. Like you could get any woman you want. Right. It's you. You figure it out. Right. You make them laugh. You. You look a certain way.

Oh, that works.

Oh, right.

That did not work. Never again.

You know that didn't work. Oh, oh, oh.

Saying like you. After going so many times, you could say, man, this one always works. However.

Yeah, I got the tricks.

You got data now.

And you pick up the house phone. Get off the phone.

Oh, yeah.

You know.

I mean, so. So real. Realistically, we can apply these principles to everything, to any industry and be successful if you're not scared to go to, like, get the information that you need to be successful if you're not scared to try. Right. I just did. And it's funny, because Melanie kind of went with me in a meeting with the mayor, and I asked this, I asked the community board for a million dollars, right? So if you just think about this curly kid, curly haired kid standing on a welfare line to his feet hurts to doing a proposal for a million dollars and the idea and concept of getting a million dollar check, it's like, that's why I say I'll be blessed. Because I know, like, I got the heart and the audacity to be like, hey, cut me a million dollar check. I'm gonna do something special in your city. Those things make you those nos, Those people for my entrepreneurs, those people that don't answer your phone, your phone call when you asking for something for those people that told you no. Like, let that feel you. Let that be the reason, like, you really go hard. Let that be the reason that you don't stop when you get tired, right? When. When it don't look good. Like, let that be the reason you make 10 more calls or reach out to 10 more people or make 10 more offers.

You gotta throw that out there ASAP for the people.

You gotta thank the haters. You gotta thank the people that say no to you, because that makes you mad.

So real.

And then don't it feel good when. Now the girl next to the girl that said no, gave you the number. Y' all having good conversation. God forbid you have a good dance with her. And now y' all looking. You know what I'm talking about, right now. Y' all looking like. Like a couple for 14 years, and this girl's having the best time of her life. You know how bad that girl feels?

Yeah.

You go extra special.

You want to be first anyway.

Exactly.

She's salty now, right?

Yeah. Not no more, though, sweetheart.

But you feel good.

Hold this, though.

You feel good, though?

Yeah.

And she'll be there when you circle back. Yeah, when you circle back, that's also a thing. These. These are the same principles that. That we have to embrace this stuff. And once you embrace it, that's your armor. So when you say being hardened, right, Is. You could look at your. Your negatives. You could look at all the negative stuff that happened to you. You could be a victim or you could just like. Nah, I'm aware that that's my shield now.

Now in 2018, you get to Land bank, right?

Yeah.

What caused the exit at American Express? You just parted ways.

How'd that work? Yeah, entrepreneurship again, man. I didn't have a lot of guidance growing up. I didn't have. I had one person this Girl who was like, oh, you stupid for leaving American Express. This is the best job. You ain't got to do nothing. You got the key to the city. You making three, $400,000 like you're crazy. Just one. My crew was like, yo, if that's how you feel, like you've been hitting it out of the park forever. So, like, we just gonna rock with you, right? I wanted more. So my, My mindset was I had a network of people I entertained. I wanted to open an insurance company, and they agreed that I would do their insurance for them. Hey, everyone, it's Jalen here from the Black Wealth Renaissance podcast. If you're a fan of business podcasts, then be sure to check out and subscribe to the Black Wealth Renaissance podcast, a show that covers business career development.

And tips to increase your income.

And the best part, it's brought to.

You exclusively by the Revolt Podcast network.

Anchored in hip hop, powered by creators. So I did that, but again, I opened the wrong type of company. I opened like a franchise company, like a State Farm in an allstate, but they were 200 million dollar companies and the policies that they needed were like commercial policies. They. They were more like Hallmark, Berkshire Hathaway. Bigger companies, Bigger companies that do corporate insurance. It wasn't the personal lines or like the State Farm, we want your car and your. Your house insurance. So kind of bumped my head there a little bit, but I was happy for the freedom. I was happy to like have my schedule and do what I want. I made good money there. Hit it out of the park there too.

But insurance is tough.

It is, it is.

It is the barrier for I'm in insurance and the barrier for entry, come to find out, yeah. Is extremely difficult. It's.

It's.

The way. The way it's run is wild.

The industry, without saying. So on a bigger port, the bigger scale or the smaller scale? Both personal.

All.

All of it is entry into like the franchise, the retail shops, or just like.

Well, I only do like subsidized health insurance.

Okay.

Like affordable health insurance or the Affordable Care act through Marketplace and stuff like that. I never did like corporate employers coverage and things like that with the larger account. So ours is like one to one single family household sizes, you know, smaller, subsidized, again, you know, families of three or four.

It's tough. We gotta make it happen as far.

As just contracting and contracting, getting everything approved the way you need to and getting the proper upline and the right onboarding and right education and then, yeah, once you take your Courses you still don't know how to sell health insurance.

Yeah, that's a whole nother. That's a whole nother topic. Yeah, that's a whole nother skill set. So from there like the franchise ran itself. So I really, I really didn't have a whole lot to do. I was living good. But gentrification hit and house prices started to rise. And to most people, they would feel like, yo, I'm killing it, my values are up, right? But me knowing my upbringing now, I want my kids close to me, right. I like that family structure where we're just like super bonded and just like close. Like I don't, I don't really necessarily want them to like go move to Nebraska, right? So I like them close to me.

Yeah.

So I thought about it and I'm like, damn. They kind of like me on the like chill side, lazy side. They playing video games. Like they ain't gonna be able to afford no house where we live right now. So my background in real estate, which we went through, I was like, let me just go buy them some properties as cheap as I can and just let them get the cash flow from it. So I was figuring like, like let me just cash out on like 40, $50,000 houses, go section 8, whether it pay 900 in Buffalo, 1500, wherever I could find. I wanted the cheapest houses and to just put that money in a bank account for them every month so that when it's time for them to buy a house, they'll have money. And then that's why I found Land bank houses that sound full circle, like what your mother did, but this time you like put them in on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Basically the remix.

Yeah, man. So I saw houses for a thousand dollars. So the Detroit Land bank, It's called building Detroit.org right? They will sell you houses starting at a thousand. They may end up 3, 4, 5,000, but they'll sell you their vacant properties at a thousand dollars. So I kind of went crazy with those. I bought a bunch of those and it wasn't easy.

So in New York at that price, I imagine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's not the price though, it was the market, but another Land Bank I want to give. I don't know how close Buffalo and Syracuse is, but the Syracuse Land bank is called Greater Syracuse Land Bank. They have houses too for like four or $5,000. So that's the Land bank that we bought that the Land bank team buys properties from sometimes. And they're good opportunities. I struggled In Detroit because the market wasn't ready in New York in some of these different cities, right. You could go to Home Depot and you see a bunch of workers outside, and you can go hire them, and they'll get work done for you. Like, date. Like, right now, they, like, ready to go. Is that what your Home Depot looks like here?

Oh, yeah.

That's what it's like here in Detroit. It's not like that. Right. You actually have to try and hire people to do your work. And the people that you hire, that I was hiring at the time, they put me through it. Like, they stole deposits, they stole appliances.

Yeah.

They went with me to Home Depot, bought the appliances, put them in the house, and stole them. Right. So. So I got my ass kicked in Detroit from a financial perspective. But again, it. It all. It all circles back, man, to be a blessing for me. So instead of renovating the houses, I started figuring out that. That the land banks, they don't. They don't really. They have a checklist. So they sell you the house for $5,000, and they have a checklist, and they say, if you do this checklist, we'll give you the deed to the house and you own it free and clear. So I started buying the houses and just literally, instead of trying to renovate them and rent them out, I was literally doing the things that was on the checklist. I would get the deed to the house and then sell it. So I made a lot of money that way. And then, of course, here come my two home. Here come the two homies, right? Here come the New York guys.

Yo, you the champ.

Put us on in Detroit. Yeah, yo, show us Detroit. I'm like, man, y' all want no parts of it, right? So, of course I have to. So I'm. I'm teaching them like a. Like, you got to be careful. You got to put a camera on a tree, right? And just watch your property. Because there's no. There's no. There's no power in these houses, Right. They're vacant properties. So, in short, a land bank is a government agency that's going to go into underdeveloped cities, create a deal with them to wipe away the old taxes, water bills, electric bills, like, get all that stuff off the title, sell it to individuals under these requirements, right? So. So we're going to say we're going to make people renovate the houses in order for us to give them to them for $5,000, right? We'll make them do the things on the checklist, and in return, because if not, they'll just sit. Because it's not worth $40,000 to put into it with an IRS bill, with a lien, with a backwater bill.

Nobody will touch it.

Nobody will touch it. So they figured out how to solve the problem to bring the properties to productive use. And what it does, each county has to have. Has to make taxes. They have. They have, like, financials that they have to meet. So the exchanges for the city give us those houses that's, like, vacant on those blocks. We'll get them back on the tax roll for you, right? Because if we sold them to Charles, he's going to clean them up, he's going to clean them out, he's going to renovate them, and he's going to start paying taxes on it. So that's the exchange for land banks, land bank houses are just the houses that they sell, okay? So I started teaching and I started showing my friends, and they were like, yo, yo, I need you to go there with me. They were a little nervous to go because Detroit at this time, it could have been like, top three murder capital of the country, right? It could have been. It was. It was. It was bad. But the reality of it is in. In most markets, the construction workers get a pass, the developers get a pass, right? You see them on the block, you don't bother them. You see the construction guy renovating the house, you. They not like what crime is, is afraid of, right? So. So we had our way renovating in Detroit. We finally got some traction. And then my friends would ask me to pay him. I mean, they would ask me if they could pay me to kind of walk them through the whole process.

How is this working for you?

Yeah, yeah. So they're scared of Detroit. And I was just not, for some reason, like, I was just. I feel so relatable to people in underdeveloped neighborhoods because, like, they're us.

We have that comfort.

They're us. The language is the same. I know what you're doing here. You know what I'm doing here. Like, I'm trying to renovate the bando next to Ms. Sherry's house, right?

And you could have that conversation with him a little bit easier right off the jump. Like, look, please don't. Don't do any of that bullshit with me. I can get you money.

I can.

I can help you make money. We can help you build and shit like that. But don't. Don't play any of the bullshit with me, because we already been through it. I know what it's like people trying to steal shit here and there. Let's get this money.

They embrace it, believe it or not. So all the. All the, like, the hood dudes that I've worked with, they want their city to come back. Like, Detroit was popping one time. Detroit was vibrant. Detroit has history of being like this bomb ass city fly. They come out right. Detroit got swag, they got history, they got culture. The motor companies left and like, they took the money out the city. So only thing left is crime. At, like, in the heart of. Of the city, there's so many vacant properties that they. They don't want. They don't want to see that, right? Every, every. I'm gonna say a hood person got a sister, a brother, a mother, a father, and you say, yo, we doing the houses on such and such block. They cool with it. They embrace it. Yeah, they embrace it. So I just didn't have the fear. And then there's people that's robbing houses and stuff like that too. But the community embraces you.

Yeah.

Like those people on the block embrace you. So I started teaching. Just. It just grew. I started teaching people and then I wrote a book called Hacking Land Bank Properties. I put that on Amazon. That was the best. It turned out to be a bestseller, which crazy blessing to me, right again. You gotta think where I came from, right? To have, like to get this sticker that says Amazon bestseller, I was like, we killing it.

I'm everywhere at once.

I was accomplished as a person at that point.

That's how we feel about the plaque slightly.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Nah, yeah. Before that, though, y' all felt accomplished as individuals.

Oh, yeah. I mean, we've had our moments, but in this specific business, if we got a, like an Amazon bestseller sticker, I'd imagine you feel like that, you know?

Yeah, yeah, that's the. I don't.

I don't want to say a hundred thousand.

A hundred thousand views. Subscribers.

Oh, now we're at like a half a milli. Close to.

Yeah, it's.

It's interesting too, though, about your story, how you, after all of that, ended up becoming a teacher. You know, you came back. Back.

He reminded me.

You came back.

Look, I didn't notice. I didn't notice that.

But you fulfilled what you initially set out to do.

You.

You became a teacher.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It's your boy Spitty here from dgb, AKA Dirty Glove Bastards off the Porch podcast. Now, if you're a fan of artist interviews, then make sure to check out and subscribe to off the Porch a Show that interviews everybody from the dopest up and coming artists, your favorite OGs and legends, street comedians, directors, and other influential people from the culture. And it's brought to you exclusively by Revolt podcast network anchored in hip hop, powered by creators. This is the first time you really. In my entire life.

You wrote a book, my brother. I don't think I said Amazon bestseller.

Appreciate it.

Like.

And that was before Chat. GPT.

Hey, that's a flex.

I wrote it. I wrote it, wrote it like you.

Yeah.

That's so wild. Because it's. It is gonna change.

But yeah. The.

The just the path.

The path, you know, the story that you were saying have. Growing from these neighborhoods and then being able to communicate.

Yeah.

With these neighborhoods and bring back the information and working with AMEX and bringing that back, all that information that you collected. Now I can come back and converse with somebody who may not understand it or has not had the same exposure to those types of experiences.

It's big.

I have a buddy of mine, he's a police officer, and it's the same thing. He's an African American. He's a Haitian, African American police officer. But when he goes on these calls and it's in the not so friendly neighborhoods, and you got Jack over there, like, get your ass on the damn ground. He can say, jack. This one's me. Okay. Yeah, talk to me, man. What's going on?

What's.

What's going. What happened? You know, it's a completely different conversation. And it. It, it's received different as well.

Of course.

It's the manner in which you're able to communicate with these people. And it's respected too. It's just. It's just interesting hearing you speak to see where everything kind of laced and. Yeah, came back too.

Yeah, man.

So now teaching. You had something?

No, I'm just. Just thinking of processing.

Right.

It's funny that you. You mentioned about the teacher thing, because that's. That's what I was noticing throughout the entire thing. It's like he is a teacher.

He's. Well.

And he kept telling. Saying us. Saying to us. Like you're not hearing. Saying to us about how he kept time. He kept throwing the rope back. It's like we're all climbing out of the hole.

Yeah.

Let me go ahead and tell my man G. Hey, listen, I'm making moves over here at amex. This is. This is the play.

Yeah.

You know, and coming back. And listen, I'm doing this thing. I got my, My stuff in Detroit. You're teaching.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

Just, just an observation.

This, this is what I noticed though. That abundance mindset that I have is like, everybody can have some, right? Even if it's a watermelon, like, and we all got a lot of fruit or food, it's like it's hot outside. Like, cut the watermelon up, we put it in the metal tray, right? The metal. What's the aluminum tray? And let everybody eat. And something about that, in my opinion, just, it's just in me to where like, we don't have to be poor, we don't have to show struggle financially. And that's how I teach sometimes. A lot of times people say, like, I'm passionate when I teach. Like, you could tell that I want you to win the way that I, I teach people the way that I like, just, just share information. I really do. I really do. We want people to win because I don't, I don't think like, like if you, if you come across me and you want me to teach you what I know, I'm a. That's enough for me. So I'm gonna go hard and be like, Kato. I'm like, kato, you gotta call that contractor at eight, bro. Cause once he gets started for his day, he's done get on his schedule. Be first. He gonna say you was first. When he pick up, by the way, he gonna be like, yeah, yeah, I was going over there. Just do it. Like, I'll be like pushing people to really succeed.

And you also strike me as someone that's a little more transparent than others in trying to help somebody win. Like, look, I can show you the numbers. This is how you do it, you know? So you strike me as somebody that you're.

Don't take my word for it.

Yeah, look, even talk about the losses, because most people don't do that. You're talking about the times where things didn't work out for you. Most people be like, oh, yeah, it was always great from day one. Killed it. Nah, no, no, I got, I got robbed. Rob. Hey, yo, I'mma tell you a funny story real quick, man. So I'm doing like my first house in Detroit, right? Super proud of what I'm doing. This is the long term play. This solves things for my kids, right? There's a, there's a verse in the Bible that says a good man leaves an inheritance for his children's children. So now I'm on that now, right? So now I'm like, yeah, like, yo, like, watch. Yeah. To me, in my mind, that's law. So I'm like, yeah, I gotta. I gotta really lay it down. So my first house, right? I do the whole house. I want the people that's renting the house for me to really feel like they in a dope crib. I'm almost saying if I'm living this way, I wanna. I wanna. I wanna provide that for somebody else. Like, I guarantee if y' all do a house for somebody, it's not gonna be the cheapest tile. It ain't gonna be like the three. The peeling stick, right? You're gonna do it decent. Yeah, you're gonna do it decently. So. So I got stainless steel, matching. I don't even got this in my house at the time. Stainless steel, matching stove, refrigerator in the crib.

See where it's going.

The boxes are outside in front of the house, right? I don't know that Detroit gets down like this yet. I have no clue. They get down like this. So I'm cashing out. I'm like, right? Stainless steel, everything. The realtor that I'm working with is like a. We got a single mother. She's gonna move in with her two kids. I'm gonna bring her such and such. I'm gonna bring her on, like, on Friday, right? So I'm like, I bet, Danza. You know, we grew up in. In a cold environment, right? Detroit gets cold, Real cold, right? So here's me, good old nice guy, right? Wet behind the ears. Don't really know the market, right? I tell the contractor, yo, before you leave, you'll blast the heat. So when they walk in tomorrow, what happens?

It's nice and comfortable.

You ever get smacked by him? And on the opposite. Have you ever walked in your house and it's colder inside than it is outside? Yeah, right? So I've done that. Happened to me before. I'm like, right?

It is cold.

So here I am, not knowing. I'm like, yo, blast the heat, bro. Like, put that on like, 88, because they coming tomorrow at 8 o'. Clock. Brand new furnace, right? Brand new stainless steel stove, stainless steel fridge, matching. It ain't one Kenmore and the other one Samsung or whatever. They match it, right?

We did it up.

Brand new furnace in the basement. So I'm a little late. I'm going to meet them. I'm a little late. Get a call from the. From the realtor. She's like, hey, Charles, the heat's not working. I'm like, no, no, just turn it on. This the on switch. Just turn it on. She's like, yeah, it's on. I'm like, did it click? She's like, yeah, call a contractor. Yo, bro, what's up with the heat? I told you to leave it on last night. They over there. He's like, I did. It was warm. I'm like, all right, I'll be over there. Yo, I get over there immediately, right? My used to be turned off sometime. It was the pilot. So I get. I got the little lighter stick. I'm going downstairs, right, to light the pilot. This is what's in my mind. I didn't go past the kitchen. I go straight ahead. How you doing? Good. Nice to meet you. Let me just turn it on. The pilot must have went out. It's brand new. Yo, the wires and the ducts are hanging from where the furnace used to be.

Oh, my God.

Completely ripped out. So you need, like, two electric wires for the shits are hanging like this. The ductwork, right? Is hanging. They ripped the boiler right out. That.

This nice and hot. This working good. It's coming home.

It's not even the worst of it, bro. I was gonna say. What happened to the kitchen? I go upstairs. What about the stainless?

What about the.

I go upstairs, right? So there's no signs of a break in whatsoever. There's nothing. She used the key to get in. I go upstairs. The whole kit, the whole is emptied out in the kitchen. There's no fridge. And bust this. I left the blue tape on there purposely. You know the blue tape when you get a new appliance?

Yeah.

I said, yo, don't take that off. I want the tenant to take it off. I want the tenant to take that off. Yeah. To get that feeling, like, wow, you know that sound.

Yeah, yeah. Like popping tails off new clothes. Like, just.

Yes. That. That wouldn't happen for us the first time. Like, I want it so bad to give that feeling to somebody, bro. I cried. Like, I really, really cried. I was like, yo, I'm so sorry they took this stuff out. And she was like. The tenant was like, hi, everyone. Jazzy bell here from Woman in Hip Hop Podcast. And if you're a fan of music, then be sure to check out and subscribe to Woman in Hip Hop Podcast, a show that focus on the many talents and influences from women within the culture and is brought to you exclusively by Revolt Podcast network, anchored in hip hop, powered by creators. I saw the boxes. I was like, yeah, we had everything in here new for you because the tenant, the landlord, was telling me about you. And she was like, well, in Detroit, you know, you don't put that stuff in there until after I rent it. I was like, for real? She was like, no, Nobody leaves stuff like that in a house like that. She like, you left it. I was like, yeah. I don't know if it was the contractor or not.

Sound like there was something going on.

Too clean twist. It was the tenants.

It was the contractor, Somebody on the block. But as I started to. To, like, grow in the market, they were like, bro, like, all lights off. And they see that nice, white, clean smoke coming out the chimney. Oh, that's food. That's food. You dumb enough to leave the stickers in the window, right? So you put new window. You know, them yellow stickers? Yeah, like, yo, you dumb enough to leave that? Like, you almost teasing.

It's a lick.

Yeah, you almost teasing them. Like, that's what it looks like to them. So for everybody, I want to get in the game, man. Just be.

Be.

Make sure you talk to people who have been through some losses. I don't care who it is. Just ask them, like, tell me what not to do. Like, tell me everything. Don't do, right. You're gonna put your. Don't. You're gonna ask, man. If you go into, like, a real impoverished neighborhood and you trying to renovate, ask is it common if you put the furnace in after they move or after they do? At least it don't take two days. It take a day and a half. You could do the ductwork and everything. But the furnace. Ask if you could put the furnace in last. The appliances. Ask, is it okay? Put them in. Take the pictures. Go put it in storage. Because trying to develop an impoverished city. They need that fridge. They need that stove.

Yeah, man.

So just be careful out there when you guys are trying to. Trying to get into this real estate thing from that perspective.

Can only imagine, man.

Now when. When we're sitting here listening to you talk and how you're teaching real estate, right? Like, you're teaching us pretty much the. The framework of real estate right now. Speaking on it. A lot of us have fear, hearing things like what happened with DJ Envy, right? And everything that went on with that. So, like, a lot of us have fear. Like, nah, I don't want to get into it, because that could be a scam. So what would you say to rebuttal that, like, people who say, ah, you know, you're just scamming people we've seen with. Yeah, and we did.

So.

So for one, I don't. I know there was some mix up there, but I don't necessarily believe DJ Envy had a lot to do with that.

I agree.

All right, cool.

I didn't know if that was going.

To be, like, that's what I took from that. He, you know, he co signed what he believed to be one thing and, you know, simply wasn't.

But that is going to be the conversation, right? He's the head. Yeah. And so, like, he's the one that people see. Right. They're not gonna. They're not gonna look at the other guy. They're gonna look at him, and a lot of people are going to think about the DJ Envy thing. I forgot the other guy's name already.

And that's why you can't co sign for people. Yeah.

But there you go. No co sign.

The fact that Envy, in my opinion, the way I saw it, he was used to help blast it, get it out to the world, amplify my voice. This is a program because I remember hearing it when I first heard about it. It was presented as an opportunity for ethnic people to have a better opportunity and get education to invest into these properties and change their lives. That's what he believed. That's how he was carrying the flag. But the other guy was like, man, we about to make some money.

Yeah.

Yeah. And this is the thing. It happens with me all the time. People feel comfortable giving you their money as opposed to doing it.

Absolutely.

So. So what I would say to that. Right. Don't. Don't shy away from. From. From following people that are coming back from where you're trying to go. Don't shy away from getting advice from mentors. Don't shy away from investing in education for somebody that's doing something like. Don't let that deter you. Use your common sense. Right. I think. I believe the hearsay is that they were giving the guy money to do it for him.

Yeah.

The whole thing is he's teaching you how to do it. So now you go with. With somebody else or even. And they're right next to each other. Right. So you went with him and you gave him money. That's where you kind of went wrong. Whether he asked for it or. Or, you know, dressed it up. Yeah.

Still got to do. Do a little bit of work.

You got to do like. Like the way I teach is more. So I'm gonna bring you to the auction. I'm a. I'm gonna give you the land Bank. Detroit landbank.org Birmingham Land Bank. Right. Muncie Land Bank Muncie. And the. I'm giving them to you right now. Right. I teach people how to do it. So you can go do it on your own. I'm gonna teach you how to protect yourself and do it. I don't do business with anybody because I'm at the level now where it's probably unfair if I did business with a student because I know so much, and I'm okay with a loss. But they may be putting up their last, like, two, $3,000 and can't. Right? It's everything. So I could take a loss and I'm cool. Right? I'm going on to the next one, but other people can't. So if you could learn from somebody who can teach you how, don't be lazy. Do the work and do it. Just do it. They give you the. They give. There's very few that do that do teach. And that's probably why what they was doing took off so much, because we don't have people that teach us this stuff. It's not taught in school. And that really gave, like, a lot of that gave a. A nasty taste in people's mouths. But it really could have been a good thing. It really could have been.

Definitely. And it's scary. Shout out to DJ Envy again. I really don't think he had anything to do with it, but he became the face of it. So when I mention it, you know, that's just pretty much the DJ Envy thing. I. I promise you. I actually forgot the other guy's name.

Does anybod.

But it's like, on the tip of my tongue.

I can't remember.

I was gonna say, like, Caesar, but. But, but. But for whatever reason, I thought it was the dog trainer guys. The only reason I didn't say it because, you know, the Caesar, the dog trainer guy, you know, flipping that j. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, I don't want to be the guy. I don't want to make the. The. The dog. I like dogs. I don't want to make the dog trainer guy look bad.

But here's the thing, though. We can't. We can't let that stop us from doing business together.

Absolutely.

We can't let that stop us from partnering with people. We. We just can't. Like, just use discernment. Use your common sense. If. If they teaching you how to do it, do it. Don't be afraid to fail. Because now you got me to ask. Yo, Charles, when you said, do the windows, should I put the windows in now? Later, like, what? Like, where you at?

I.

Hey, bro, go. Go get used windows over there for a little while. I don't Know if that neighborhood ready for the brand new ones, they might take them, right? And then like some of that stuff, man. Like, how much can we be responsible? Because, right, I want everybody to eat. So I got people with, with a clothing brand, they be like, yo, Charles, wear this for me. I'mma wear it, I'mma post it, I'mma blast it out. Somebody say, repost something. Give me a shot. I'mma just do it. That doesn't necessarily make me responsible for like the one wash, and it got super shrunk, right? And it's a cheap, cheap fabric. So it's like, damn. So. So now look at the next person that's going to ask. Envy, yo, Envy, yo. I got whatever, right? I'm opening up microphones for a podcast. Yo, could you put my mics on your show? You know, I'll be like, nah, bro. Like, doors closed.

Yeah, absolutely. You don't want to work with nobody now. Yeah, it's terrifying.

That's rough.

So let's say I, I come up to you and I say, hey, I got an extra $10,000 laying around. Can you help me flip this? What do you got to say to that?

So my concept, man, is not really. I wanna, I wanna create wealth. I want, I want you to have properties for, for your kids. First thing right off the bat, like, we, we bonded over, over the kids, right? The first thing I'm gonna be like is danza, man. I want you to buy properties and hold them. I don't like that flip concept. It's not long term, right? We've all had $40,000 and blown it. We've all had 50,000 and blown it. And then from a wealth perspective, right, Our ownership from a minority perspective is in the basement. We're renting now more than ever. The foreclosure rate now today is like sky high. Like, people are on the verge of losing their house or behind on more than two payments. And this is a study in the New York Times that shows, like, think it's like 38%. And this is Sunday's New York Times. 38% of mortgages owned by African American, by African Americans are either two to three payments behind or at risk of foreclosure, right? So my whole thing with Land Bank Houses was we need to buy houses that we can afford and then buy houses that we can afford to keep. So I want us to keep our houses and rent them out. So I would. My advice to you, and I' ma share something that I'm doing later for people too. But my Advice to you in the immediate is to go to like a tax auction. They have like, I think it's Putnam County, Volkswagen County, Lee county, they have auctions and land banks where you can buy these properties from these land bank properties or low cost properties. I would recommend you getting the game there. Renovate. And I would teach like a lot of safety precautions. One of the things I teach people is don't pay contractors, heavy deposits up front and don't pay them with cash. Pay them with PayPal if you can. So here's just a gem for anybody getting into real estate, right? Like tell you you are going to tell your contractor what your terms are, right? So I want you to renovate my garage, but I'm gonna pay you with PayPal. So if you got a PayPal account, just send me an invoice that way. What that does is when they don't renovate it properly, when they don't do it right, when they don't finish it. You get two opportunities to dispute that charge. One with PayPal and then the other one is with your credit card. So it's two layers of protection. Again, me teaching is like, you got two kids, I got two kids. I'm not. I know that money could go a long way, right? We're not losing that $10,000 by any means. So hey, we need this, we need this basement done. We need the garage done. Hey, I'm gonna pay you with PayPal. Is that cool, right? If it's not, then you're not, you're not the one for me. Let me just work with somebody. What up? This is Tor Ray, host of the Hard to Earn Pod. And if you're a fan of music reviews, then be sure to check out and subscribe to hard2ear with my partner, Bone Suit Thompson. And I review your favorite new albums and classic albums on pivotal anniversaries. You know, 10, 15, 20, etc. We review track by track rating from 1 to that elusive perfect 10. It's brought to you exclusively by the Revolt Podcast Network. Work anchored in hip hop. Powered by creators who can send me an invoice through paper. It's just little protective things like that difference using, using your discernment, right? I always say, I say this a lot too, and this is just good information in general. Red flags don't turn green. They never turn green. And that's why we talked about energy. You like? Yo, I don't care. I'm not doing business with somebody who I don't get the vibe from. That's right. Right. It's the same thing with real estate. If you call, if, if somebody give you a number to a contractor and you got to call them eight times for him to answer, that's a red flag, right? Because if something go wrong to get him to come fix it. Like you don't want to call them eight times, right? So if he show up late, hey, we're gonna meet at 10 o' clock, and he comes at 11 or he's late. Like those are red flags that's to come. It's a sign of things to come. But we just be so into the project and so happy, we ignore them. And then when we get burnt, it's like, Jackie, you ignored the red sign. It's just like everything else. You have to use discernment. You got to use common sense. And you got to layer the protection, you got to layer yourself with protective measures.

Our contractors, the number one enemy with. For real estate.

Yes. Yeah, I hate them. I hate contractors. I hate contractors. I'm gonna tell you right now, man, contractors, they, and it's not, it's not only. It's just a thing with contractors where they don't tell you the price up front. They tell you the price that, that, that you want to hear so they could get the job. How many times we did work with a contract and they say, hey man, it's going to be a little bit more because we ain't see this or we ain't see that, right? Then to get them back to finish something, right? So your lady be like, hey, they ain't finished that corner over there. To get them back to finish that after you paid them already. It'd be hard. They, they just be like shitty to me. They'd be unethical, man. They be, they be taking money, taking deposits from people up front. They be asking 50% up front for a deposit. And once you give the deposit, oftentimes now the ball's in their court. So you don't coughed up 50%. So you buy a house for 5,000. They say $25,000 to renovate it. They're gonna tell you everything for 25. You're gonna give them 12, they're gonna ask you for 12 five. You give them 12, five. Now you sitting there, you calling the.

Dude here, your clock started, but he's like, I'll get to you when I can't.

He on his time now. Yeah, he on his time because now.

You'Re obligated to stick around and wait.

And now you, you feel in that position where you Calling him to get some work done. But I'm gonna tell you the safest way, bro. I'm gonna tell you the safest way. And this is like the new way of doing real estate. And I'm a shout your guy out in a minute, right? You know what I'm talking about, right? The new way of doing real estate is developing, is building from the ground up. Here's why, right? All that fix and flip stuff, man, we. I actually took a toll, took a tally. Like, how many people we really know in our immediate circle that got rich off of fixing and flipping properties is very few. It's very few. The people that's doing well in my circle is very few of them. And I'm. I'm deep in the real estate. My friends are real estate people. Is very few of them that are rich off of this fix and flip strategy. It's like a perpetual circle of buying, fixing, selling, renovating, pulling money out. Like, me and Danza can't pull $50,000 out of a house that we plan to leave to our kids, because where we. Who we've taken the $50,000 from, we taking it from our kids. Our kids got to pay that, right? So we're not in that space. Like, that's just not, like, the smartest thing to do. And then when we think about the developers, right? Your guy, the guy we used to look up to, we used to praise for his business acumen as a developer. Donald Trump. Yeah, right? It started with Fred Trump. Fred Trump was a developer big, in New York City. He. He owned 27, 2700 pieces of real estate in New York City. In their portfolio that he developed, they developed the Trump Towers. So. So from a. From a real estate perspective, from a developer perspective, and developers are the people that build the properties, right? Like, your guy was a goon, bro. He was a goon. Shout out to Donald Trump for being a developer that we all looked up to, right? Here's the thing.

Shout out to the babies.

Yeah, shout out to the babies, man. Look, developing is. Is where. Is where I want our people to go. And I'm passionate as hell about this, right? To develop a property, there's so many safety measures, right? There's so many safety measures. And this is why you have to buy the land. But you can go to any land bank and buy land. You can go to a tax deed auction, a delinquent sales auction, and buy land. Land is cheap. 3, 4, $5,000 for land. You buy the land. It's an exchange. You ain't Gonna get robbed buying land from the city or from an auction, right? To build the house, you gotta go to an architect. You come up with the house in your mind. Or you just say, I want a three bedroom, two bathroom. They're going to show you plans that they have. Or you're going to just make one up of what you want, right? You exchanged 1500 for the plans. No robbery, safe. You on your way, you're going to get a loan from a bank. As a developer, I have like three banks that we can use that will lend you money to build a house from the ground up. With no experience, right? This is why I love developing and this is why we have to do developing. It's super easy. The plans are going to tell the, the builder. So you go to Google, you get a builder, right? Simple. You go to Google, you find a builder that can build your house for you. Here's how easy this is, bro, and how safe this is. The bank's going to give you the money to build the house from the ground up, right? They base the money that they give you on the value the house is going to be after it's built. So houses around here, let's just say, are worth. Can we, can we say, can we give a number? Is that cool?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So in this area, I would say that, I would say in this area right here, at least 6, 700,000.

6, 700,000. Yeah. Let's go, let's go to low end. 600,000, right? The cost, what size square foot house is this?

I rent this, this spot out. So I would say it's probably about.

2,000, 2,000 square feet, right. The cost to build a 2,000 square foot house may be $300,000. Right? The bank's going to give you a loan based on it selling or being worth 600,000. Right. It only cost in materials and labor. 300,000, right. So here's the layers of protection. The builder gives you what's called a draw schedule, meaning he's going to do the work. You're going to get a draw from the bank and pay him. This is why it's so safe. This is why I recommend developing for anybody, developing for newbies, developing for experienced people. And this is why I want to be the face of development, right? I want to be the black face, the face of development for black people. Okay? They're going to build, they clear the land, they're going to build the foundation. And I show this on Instagram like I show my house is being built. Yeah, they Clear the land, they dig for the foundation, they pour the foundation. That's phase one. They get it inspected by the city. They pull permits, they get it inspected by the city. Then they say, hey, Cato, we finished the foundation. Here's the receipt for the inspection saying that it passed. Can you pay us? You now take those pictures, send it to the bank. The bank pays, right? Then they go to section two, right? Framing. They do the framing, the roof, frame out the whole house. It gets passed by an insp. City inspector first. Before they go to the next level, they check in the nail, the type of nails that they use. There's a. There's a such thing as a nail inspection, right? They checking the nails, the spacing between them. They check everything, pass it, give a green sticker, then you pay. There's absolutely no way, if you follow that concept step by step, that you can get ripped off. In addition to that, the house only cost $300,000 to build. Let's go wild and crazy and say, say, Cato did some. Some fly shit, right? Because I see, like, the studio swagged out, right? Right. Let's say you spent 400,000. There's $200,000 left over, and that's being conservative. You never were at risk of losing that word, right? Now. Let me ask you this question. Let me ask you this question. How many times people have renovation work done by a contractor in their house that doesn't get finish? Yo, it's Big Fred, AKA Podcast, and we are the Sobering Podcast.

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55% of the time.

Often, right? Often. It happens more than half of the time now, now, now. In this neighborhood right here. How many times you see a house being built that doesn't get finished? Will you see, like, the house and no roof?

Yeah, that's rare.

Never happens, right? The con, the builders have to go get a permit. They got to go put their license in the county record. They got to submit the plans. They have to finish that work in order to get paid. So it's the safest way for us to get into real estate. It's the safest way for us to get into real estate safely, affordably. It's the lowest risk. It's the fastest way to really get in the game of real estate and be successful with, like, your future in mind, with, like, your kids in mind. I teach now, like, development. It's More so, because you got to think about this. Don Peoples don't got anything that I see where he's like, hey, you, I'm one of the richest developers in the world. You can do it this way. He ain't teaching it. Donald Trump, he ain't teach development. He's teaching business practices and how to negotiate. And going back to your point, right? The people that's developing, the, the cult, the ethnicities that, that are developing, they don't teach it outside of their communities, right? The developers are the same. We know the Jews own such and such amount of property in New York City, right? We know the Trump Towers, the Chrysler Building, right? We know the developers. But are any of them ever teaching us any of this stuff? No. We got Don Peoples, we got Bob Johnson, we got H.J. her, Herbert Riley, something in Atlanta. Biggest developers. You know what they do after give back? They give to charity. That's all they doing. They're not saying, hey, here's a developer course, right? I got a 300 mil of $3 billion portfolio. Like, why are they not giving out a developer course? Who's teaching development? No, they're not teaching it. They bragging about it. They're doing charities, they're doing donations, they doing give backs. Like, the money is not the answer. The answer is like, hey, I'm gonna teach all my, all my people how to develop. Like, it's, it's so simple, easy, and safe, but they just don't do it.

How do you get people to see that type of value, though, in. In our type of communities, in our type of neighborhoods? Because for some people, it's a mountain that can never be climbed. It's something that's just seen as unobtainable. You know what I mean? So how do you help people understand that you can do this too? Like, is it just by living it? Is it just by making sure you capture these things to help get it on social media and spread the word that way or.

Well, one of the things I say, man, I'm, I'm. I think social media is like one of the best things that could have happened to us because our community is so dialed into social media, we are like on social media every day, all day, right? The same people we need to reach are on social media every day, all day. So what I do is I try to show it in a relatable way. I try to show it in a cool way that makes them believe they could do it too.

Yeah.

Like, I want to show and. Right. I think if you speak to Me long enough. You understand where I come from, you understand, like, I'm just like you. Yeah, but I. But. But I made it right. I'm just like you. And I just had some information that other people don't have. Like the way I broke down developing. Right. Nobody knows that stuff. Nobody know how safe it is. They just know, like, oh, I can't build a house. The reality of it is you can. So what I try to do is more definitely social media, but I try to make all of my stuff, like, super relatable. I'm not. I'm not trying to be like Dom Peoples and Bob Johnson.

Right.

I don't. I don't. Suits be tight to me. You know what I'm saying?

Like, yeah, you said that earlier.

Like, that ain't really that. That. That's not really my. I don't like wearing suits like that. And I don't want people to think that you got to be the suit and tie. You know, my beard, sometimes it'd be nappy. It'd be. It'd be. It'd be like, I'm just who I am. But I want people. I use social media, and my following is growing pretty strong, too. I use social media for people to see, like, yo, that he making it look easy, you know? So we have to leverage social media to get that work, to get the word out there. We have to leverage podcasts. The news has called me, so we're garnering some national attention. Nice. Yeah, I got called by a couple news stations. We're doing a big conference.

That's what I was. So. Yeah, because I, you know, that's another thing is this is something. And it's.

I don't want to say a new.

Culture, but having these conferences and having conventions, having these. These think tanks, these. Yeah, These workshops where this type of information is available. Not. I know you were going to get to that, but this has become a. I don't want to say a trend, but it's a cultural revelation, rather like. Like an invest fest.

Yeah.

Like the revolt cons and the revolt words and where they have these panels where people can speak more about financial literacy and actually ask somebody who's done it.

It.

And they look like you.

Yeah.

Okay. And like you said, we get to rock the Balencia and we get to show up how we are and how we. How you might actually operate when you're actually navigating in your business. But just.

I don't know.

I. I think it's amazing that this is something that is becoming popularized.

Yeah. We need it. We. We definitely need it. We need. So I think when I was younger, if I. All I had was, like, I couldn't follow my brother. Right? He's beating people up. He's drinking out. He's drinking 40s, beating people up, listening to rap music.

Yeah.

Writing rhymes. Right. That's. That's what they was doing and tricking out their cars. So there wasn't. There wasn't money in that, really, outside of, like, unless I wanted to be a boxer, right. There wasn't money in that. The only money I saw was my older sister, middle sister, and my mom's. That's it. And had I saw something different, Had I saw somebody say, like, you could do this and make money, and it looked like they're respectable because you're not listening to the dude that's doing worse than you. Right. If. If I saw that, it might have. It might have had an effect on me. Me, I had to, like, pave my own way. I'm the leader of my community. I'm the leader of, like, my friends. I'm the leader of my circle. If I say, hey, we gonna go buy such and such, like, they like, how much? Right. I don't really have. As I get the information, I kind of bring it back and. But so I say that to say, like, I teach and I do stuff and I do conferences just really to show people, like, y', all, like, we could do this. Wow. I'm doing it. Here's my numbers. I'm passionate about helping. I'm passionate about you guys being successful, and I'm doing something kind of crazy. But y' all know a little bit about my. My story. So you won't think it's crazy, or you'll think it's crazy, but you won't think it's, like, out of character for me.

So coming to a conference in the flesh. You got one coming up in.

So. Yeah. I'm scared. Okay. I'm gonna just keep it. I'm gonna just keep it all the way around. I don't know where this number came from, bro. I have no clue where this number came from. Right. I just be having. So I could. I feel like I could just make anything happen that I come up with in my head.

That's a powerful right for me. Real estate is such a scary place, even for me, purchasing my own home.

Yeah.

Right now I'm like, you know what? Let me rent for a little bit. I feel comfortable. I don't know if I want to move here and live here. I don't know if I would want to live here full time. And then there's people that would say, no, just jump into real estate. But I don't know enough about it. And I've had so much stuff in the path of me being able to know that much that it's like, let me stay away from it. As I'm sitting here listening to you speak, I'm starting to get ideas. Oh, I didn't know you could do that. Or I didn't know you could do this. So what would you say to somebody like myself that's being hesitant into purchasing a home?

Think long term. Think about your kids. Design what you want. And I'm going to tell you right now, don't look for it on Zillow. On Trulia, Build it.

What's poppin?

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Right here by the Revolt Podcast network, anchored in hip hop, powered by creators. It's cheaper. It's way cheaper. Building it is like going up to, to BJ's or Costco or the wholesale warehouse, right? That's what building it is. Because you only pay for the labor and the materials. The houses that are on Trulia and Zillow, those are houses that someone built that they're selling. Those are the $300,000 houses that they're selling for 650 and 750. So you go in there and you looking for them. But the reality of it is you just hit a call an architect and say, hey, I'd like for you to draw up plans for this, right? Sit down with your lady, figure out, you know, where you want the bedrooms, bathrooms, right? And just design what you want and price it out first. The money piece. So that's, that's something that will give you some time to really, I like, figure out how you want to live, how you want it to be designed and everything and that. And bake in some room for growth so you don't have to move again, right? Just make sure you're gonna do it in the neighborhood that you wanna stay in. I don't know if y', all if shop is closed or not, bro, but if y' all trying to go a third, you might wanna add on another. Another Room and then sometimes three gets crazy. You might wanna make sure that man cave is in there too. Right. You wanna bake that in and you can just really, just design your own. It's really not that expensive. It's way less than if you bought off a Trulia Zillow realtor.com so you.

Don'T face the same issues as you do with the developers as you do with your day to day.

No, they can't get paid. They can't, they not getting paid.

Okay.

They're gonna, you're gonna give them your plans, they're gonna go get estimates and tell you how much it's gonna cost. Typically we talk in terms like this. $100 a square foot, 150 a square foot, 200 a square foot. So if you want to build like your builders charging $150, you got a 2,000 square foot house that's going to be 300,000 based on grade like finishes and things like that. It can go up or down a little bit. So the house that I'm building in Birmingham, I'm working with the city because I want to, I want to have a place for people in Birmingham to be able to buy houses that they can afford, afford. So I want to do low income housing then I want to do affordable housing for people that want to rent at reasonable prices. So I'm, I partner with cities and counties to work with their, to work with the land that they have to develop it and try to put people in homes where they really couldn't afford for the most part.

That's dope. Yeah, it's great information too. And do, do you feel like, so how do people like myself find this information on a day to day? Like because it seems like we're mostly, and I'm telling you from experience, I'm mostly running from it. Right. Yeah, I don't want to deal with that. There's. Nah, I'm good. I'm happy over here. I don't want to deal with any of that.

It is challenging. Like you said earlier, you don't know if you want to live in one place for that long. A lot of times our paperwork ain't right. Right. The stuff that banks be asking for, we don't feel like looking for it. Sometimes we'd be behind on our taxes. I know 20, 23 taxes, if you got a, an extension is due in October. Right. So it is daunting. And then when you do an application, they want to ask everything. Right. They want all this information but you got to go through it. Most lenders that lend will lend on new construction, I would say. So it's difficult for me because I got two places and I'm buying a third one. So you gotta start, you gotta get in and you gotta start somewhere. You have to just do you. Here's what I'll say. You don't have to. Right. There's a concept where you want to be mobile, you want to rent, you cool with renting? If y' all want to go move somewhere else, you can, you want to go bigger, you could go there. Me and as a New Yorker, I want to be somewhere in the south because in the wintertime, right. So I'm getting to the point where I really want to just work out as a priority in my day. I want a spot in a warm climate so I could run all year. Right. Jogging is like my thing, my primary preferred way to work out.

Yeah.

So I might get a, I'm working on a third place in a warm temperature climate. So there's no, there's no right or wrong answer to that. That's a great question. But I would also say this, people that don't have a lot of money don't have all those options. So you, you just got to make a decision. You at. So at a lower level, right. Lower level financially, at that point it becomes renting versus owning and what makes sense for that family financially. So if you paying, let's just say $2,000 rent for where you live and then owning a mortgage will cost you 2200. They almost gotta buy a, buy a place because the rent is going to continue to increase. Right. Buy a landlord. So somebody like me is going to be increasing the rent 5%. Right. It makes sense. And if you got kids, you really got to, you got to manage your finances at just an everyday level. Right. Some people just, I know I'm saying that wrong, but you got to manage your finances. And then at that point it's a financial decision, you got a little bit more options. Right. So you could rent and say, oh, like I might move, we might want to move. We might want to get a, a condo, a high rise in New York. So I don't want to, I don't want to buy here because my dream is to overlook like the city when I wake up in the morning. So based on your, your level of where you are financially, you got options and choices. That's why it's hard for you. Yeah. Because somebody who income for the house is 3, 600, right. Oh, they gotta buy a house real Quick.

Yeah.

Because rent's going up. Somebody get fired, they hurt. Yeah.

So now you're going to be doing something huge in Birmingham, Alabama.

Yeah.

For the community. And I know that, you know, just speaking about it earlier, what's. What's the chant that goes on by your. By. By the block, bro.

I gotta share something with you, man. Because this is. This is like the most transparent or. Or my open and to sharing information that I've been. That chant started from me taking people that were going to an auction. They were nervous. So I buy properties all the time. I buy them online, I go to auctions and buy them. But I took 200 people to an auction and they were nervous. Like I could see it. And I organized the auctions, right. So we're going to earmark a property for you, you, Mel and you. Everybody going. So we don't bid against each other. Right. I'm really trying to like organize these auctions and stuff. So the first auction I took people to, there's properties that you see worth $10,000 that's selling for $600. People started buying each other's properties. I got people that when their number was called, they were missing. They were bought. Some were buying by accident, but people were missing their auction number being called. And I'm like, all right, like, what the hell happened? So we regroup. I'm like, what happened? You bought his? You missed yours? Like, like, what's going on?

We had a plan, guys.

We had a plan, guys. So people were nervous. There was a lot of nervous energy. There was some, some, you know, I'm gonna just say our people. Greed. If you got a chance to buy a property for that's worth 20,000 for 600, some of us are going to take each other's property. That's just what it is, right.

And you late to the podium. Let me get his too.

Yeah. So they still started wilding. So I started doing activities before, like team building activities, camaraderie activities. So. So here's two things that, that we do. One of them we just like get. We have breakfast together, we break bread together. We try to get that camaraderie, that one band, one sound together. So I'll rent out a hall, like a. A hotel reception area or something, and we. We break bread. That chant came from like the energy, the nervous energy in a room. 200 people going to an auction to buy a properties at one time. And they just started. I was like, we going to buy the block. And they just start going crazy. It start going crazy. Then here's the other thing that we did not get this on camera. A Soul Train line. A soul Train.

Get all the nerves out.

Get all the nerves out. But that Soul Train line bonds, doesn't it bond us? Yeah, yeah. Like you go to a wedding or something, you do a soul tray line. We friends, we all fit. I ain't even like what you wore, but like, yo, he cool. Cause he could. He did the bus, right?

Killed it.

You killed it. You automatically like, yeah. So now when it's his time to bid, the chances of you taking his is slim. And we had auctions with two people going against each other with the same buy the block shirt on. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, what are they doing, bro? So I started doing stuff like that, and it went crazy. So that at 200, I'll be trying to put us together, bro. Some of it be. Some of it be backfiring on me, man. Some people, oh, Charles, you should do it this way. You should do it that way. Why we ain't get why the French toast? And I'm like, y' all do know, like, this is just me and three team members that's doing this, right? When you do your auction, let me know. I want to come. When you organize 250 people to pay and organize that and fly in of front from all of us, let me know.

I'm gonna come.

I'm gonna come through.

It's unfortunate that people have those mindsets.

So it'd be. It'd be a small though the. The crew will be having my back and they get attacked real quick. They'd be like, what? Yeah, nah, I get. I get love from that perspective.

So what's cool about that is at some point it'll become somewhat self governing because you've created a culture and you've created an expectation of these people. So as they show up time after time and they get to know and some people have seniority, they keep other people in check, and it becomes a real thing. It's a movement.

It is. That's.

That's a beautiful and powerful thing.

We getting better at it too. So when I do like cohorts and stuff, let's just say for a month, I got my. I got somebody who takes attendance. So now you pay me. Cato, where you at? It's seven o'. Clock. It's Tuesday. Like, you missed a class. Yeah, right. Where you at? I'm call you. And my team's going. Actually waiting for you. We're actually going to call you. You and People be like, yo, I'm so sorry. Life be life. And that's the excuse now, right? That's the excuse of like life be life. And I'll be like, yeah, whatever, but. But yeah, no, we are very well organized and it gave me the courage to do something that's wild and crazy, bro. I'm attempting to bring 500 people to Birmingham, Alabama. We have meetings with the city. They invited me to their developer summit because I'm developing there now. So they invited me to the summit and they got a lot of money, but they don't have the developers to build. The city can't do it, right? So they invited me. I brought my team, I brought my team in. And just as like, as a give back to that. That city is so storied, is rich in history, it's disinvested. But downtown is already done. They got an amphithe amphitheater coming. Coca Cola has like a 200 acre beverage facility. They're moving their headquarters there, right? It's next. It's coming. It's like starting already. I've never done an event with 200, with 500 people, right? So I'm attempting is February 21st and 22nd. We gonna go down there and turn up on Friday. We're gonna get that nervous energy out. We gonna, we gonna make friends. We gonna, we're gonna have a little open bar on, on Friday, right? We gonna really become family and lock in. And then on Saturday, I'm gonna just go crazy. I put together the crazy lineup, okay? So when I say the crazy line, this ain't like the entertainment event. This ain't the event you go shopping for. And I'm like, oh yeah, this is straight education. This is straight wealth. This is straight like we got a chance to own a city and make it ours, right? So historically we, we, we are on a descent. Minorities are on a descent from land ownership. It. We're not transferring our properties down the right way through secession, somebody die, the family fights. What do they do? Sell it, right? We losing properties like crazy. The stats are disgusting. At one point, African Americans own 14 of the available land in the United States. Today, we are down to 1.3% crazy, stat, right? So I felt it was a key, key member to have is an attorney that helps people build, create trust. So I have an attorney speaking early who's going to teach people about trust and the importance of having a trust. So that stuff is already cared for by the time we pass away. The kids don't got to argue and fight you get these. You get those. Pops is gone, right? They don't have to fight anymore, and we won't lose our properties that way. In addition to that, I have a team of five different builders. So to service individuals that want to buy land and build in Birmingham. So they're gonna. So just imagine a room that has an architect, an attorney to do your trust, builders to build your property, and the bank to lend you the money to actually build the property. Sick. And then I'm a tea. And then. So that's the morning. Yeah, that's the morning. That's the more. This is just. This is my vision, but I just be making it happen. Right?

Let's go.

So that's the morning piece. Then we're gonna bust some break bread for lunch. We gonna have some fun. We got Melanie, who's gonna host it.

Let's go.

She gonna host it. And then I'm gonna just get on and I'm gonna teach, and I'm gonna try to teach my ass. Ass off.

Oh, yeah.

That's gonna be like. Let's go. That's gonna be like the equivalent. It's gonna be like the equivalent of a rapper doing a show.

Like a killer performance, but with the whole. You just built a school in Birmingham, Alabama. That's what you're doing.

Yeah.

February 21st and February 22nd.

Yes.

You got a school that you built.

I'm a teach, bro. I'm a teacher. Like, I created an acronym to teach people how to buy land. It's called Africa. You mind if I share it with the audience? Hell, no.

Of course. Please.

Anybody know how to buy land? Anybody know where to buy land? No. Hell no. Right? So look, so this how you buy it, right? And it's. This stuff is so easy. It's just. And I'd be mad at developers because they don't be teaching this stuff, but I'm going to break down this acronym. It's called Africa. This is how you buy land, right? So if you see a piece of land for sale, you want to just go through this acronym. That A is for area you want to check out based on your county, what's the size of land you need to build a house on? So for you, what county are we in?

We are in Broward County.

In Broward county, you want to call your planning and zoning board, and you're just going to ask them, how much square feet do I need to build a house? They're going to tell you 7,000. So you want to. You want to call that first before you go shopping for land. So now you know you need 7,000 square feet to buy land. Right. F is for the fundamentals of a sewer system. You want to make sure, because this can be an unexpected cost for people that's looking to buy land. There could be water, but not sewer. Sewer is separate, is a separate bill. And you could have a septic tank. Think. I don't know how much rural towns you guys have in this area, but in rural communities, they don't have sewer everywhere. They have septic tanks and some. So you want to verify the fundamentals of a sewer system. So you would go to Google Maps. So you get the land, you get the information for it. You go to Google Maps, Google street view. You're going to look up and down the street for a manhole. You know, the potholes, the manholes. Yeah. You're going to verify that that's the sewer system. You'll see on the side, the drainage system. Right. Those are the fundamentals that at a minimum, you want to make sure those are there before you buy the piece of land. The R is for road frontage. You want to make sure that you have access to the road, to the street. And sometimes you could make the mistake of buying a piece of land that falls under the term landlocked. That means it doesn't have road frontage and it could be behind a parcel of land that has road frontage. Right. So you. In that case, you may have to ask for what's called an easement. So you'll ask that person if they could give you an easement through their property, typically on the side, it's just like a small easement so that they can get to theirs. So sometimes you'll see that if you pay attention in some neighborhood, in some rural neighborhoods, for the most part, you'll see a person's house, and then you'll see a little alleyway. Sometimes they call that a flagpole easement. It looks like a flagpole. So it's the skinny pole. And then you have the house back. Yeah.

Right.

So you want to verify road frontage. Road frontage.

More than one mailbox up front.

Yeah. And then in the back, you got somebody who bought the wrong property who got to go through the side to get to the house. Yeah. So that's your road frontage. I is for infill lots. So you want to buy infill, what's called lots that are in developing areas that are where you can verify that there are houses there. So when you do your Google Maps or your Google street view. You just take it up the block, down the block to make sure there are other houses there. You don't want to buy land where there are no houses at all.

And why is that?

The sewer system. You'll have to pay the water company or the sewer company to dig the street, wherever it is, all the way to yours. Wow. And that's just something that, like, we. We got to make sure we're buying. If we're getting into this space, we got to make sure. I want people to know that they're buying safely and buying correctly. So you want to buy infill lots. So this house right here has a house next to it, across the street, across and on the other side. So we know. Chances are they got water, chances are they got sewer there. If not, we'll call them. You can call the Planning and zoning Board to verify. You call the sewer department and verify, hey, you can give them what's called a parcel number. That's how they identify the land if there's no house on it. It's typically identified by a parcel number. You call them and just ask them, hey, is there an account here? Was there ever an account here? Do you guys have sewer at this location? And they'll tell you, right? They'll tell you the last one. Oh, no. So it's C, and then a C is for the comps. So when we talked earlier, and I was saying, how much are houses worth in this area right now? So we say like 6, 700,000. You want to go on maybe like a Zillow. You can search for what was sold already. There's a small tab that says sold on Zillow. And you want to verify what was recently sold in this area. And you want to make sure that you sort it for new construction. Because if you're building to sell and make money, you want to validate that. Not like a house that was built 10 years ago that just sold for 600,000. The new developments are probably selling for seven and eight. So you want to just take your time, do your research, and validate, like, whatever concept you put together. So if you want to build for three and sell it for like seven, or you. You want to do something fly for 450 and sell it for seven. You want to make sure that they've sold at that level already, you know, so it makes sense, right? And then the last one is access. You want to make sure it has access to power lines because very similar to water and sewer. If they. If there's no power lines you actually got to pay the power company from the last house where the light pole was to bring the wire. Bring a pole and bring wires all the way to your house and connect it. So those are some of the safer things that you could do to get into the space.

I like that.

That's an amazing acronym. Again, it's just the education that I'm able to obtain by sitting down talking to somebody like you. Now how many of these events have you done that are similar to Birmingham, Alabama? Or is this like, is this the one?

This is the one. This is the one that scares me. This one scares me because we got support, right? So. So when we went to Detroit, it was like a fight. It was like, I'm bringing more people, I'm bringing more. Try to work with the land bank. They want to work with me. All right, we're going to buy. Those are my people who just bought their last 10, right? It was a fight until they started like, yo, dude, you got power. Like, all right, let's talk. Then they start coming to my event. So now I'm like, all right, forget I'm going to another market, right? Then we went to Hawley, Pennsylvania. Hawley County, Pennsylvania has a tax sale where they sell those properties that I described $600 for properties that be worth like 12, 10,000, right? We went there. They gave us so much flack. Like they've never seen two hundred and fifty black people chanting, wearing the same clothes. They were treating us like they, they, they wasn't so warm and fuzzy about it. Yeah, right. So I bought by the Detroit Land bank introduced me to the, the coo, introduced me to the land bank in Birmingham. And I started buying a lot of land there. And ever since I've been buying land there, they've been embracing me and endorsing me. They, they like Charles. We want to do business, we know to bring this city back to the culture it used to be. We know we have to have public to private partnerships. Send us a proposal. Give us a proposal, right? We'll look at it. I'm building a house now and I'll be sending them pictures, right? I'll be sending the pictures to the mayor, the deputy. They're embracing it, right? We got a meeting on Thursday with the land bank. They're going to come to the conference and put up a booth and speak. So this one kind of scares me. It's like I said I wanted to do it. They saying, cool, now I gotta get 500 people out there and do it.

But that's how it goes, man. It's the ones that scare you. You know this one?

Yeah.

That means you're doing something that's bigger than probably you've ever done before.

It is.

You know what I mean? And I can't wait to talk to you in another couple years. And you're like, hey, let me tell you how Birmingham him with.

I'mma hit y' all dir. Like, yo, it's packed. Y' all look at. I'mma text you. They all wearing my shirts. Let's go.

I'll tell you what. We've been moving and grooving. Now, that's something I might want to.

Pop out to, you know, man, I would appreciate this.

That would be super dope.

So. So, you know, I'm all about, like, family doing stuff together. As we're developing these houses now, we agreed as our signature for this movement, it. We're gonna all have blue doors on our properties.

Oh, wow.

Blue is, like, a symbol of solidarity, peace, love. Like, it has meaning to the color. Blue actually has meaning to it. So I can't wait, bro. Like, my. My. This is my fourth development. It's almost done. But I can't wait till, like. And I show it, too. I try to make it so easy and show everybody, like, it's so doable. I can't wait till we really. To be able to just. Just imagine, like, driving through a city and you know that you're responsible for doors of, like, that's in the city. That's kind of sick.

Absolutely. Yeah.

But being. And not to be the. The pessimist of the. Of the group or the conversation, but when you have something that's so powerful and you do something that creates so much change and empowers so many people that, prior to DID probably didn't have these. This type of power. Do you catch resistance from neighborhoods or from certain.

No, they need it. They need it.

Okay.

So the city gets this money. So outside of the auction, people in Pennsylvania being a little. Little, you know, little road and like, oh, he's here. Back again. They say it with a smile, but you know the feeling, right? You know the vibe when they. Because it's extra work for them. They're like city workers that gotta stay till 9pm now, because I bought 200 people, so I get that. But no, man, because we're. It's all positive. It's all taking those vacant lots, and they don't want. The mayor at the developer summit, he said, like, that old lady shouldn't have a vacant property next to her house.

The eyesore.

The eyesore and then the land vacant right next to it. He's like, it's just not right. So they are fully embracing. It's a developer friendly city too big shout out to Birmingham. When you want to get your water turned on, you call. They turn it on that same day. The. The gas, the electric, they turn it on same day. So they have the structure in place for it. They just don't have the developers, they don't have the people.

You.

So I'mma be that guy.

Let's go.

That brings people to Birmingham, Alabama.

So you don't feel it would be safer with red doors?

It wasn't my color, so that was a collective, that, that was a collective of the group. Yeah. So I did like an online challenge and I took like a closer group who needed extra support, and they so much behind me and I'm like, hey, what color? Because I, I want. I wanted to feel like you could do it too. Like this is your project, right? Like, like you're building this house. I'll be showing it on Instagram every day in my stories and show how easy it is. And then I'll be showing that I don't be doing nothing right. I also be showing, like, I'm in New York, y'. All. Like, they sent me these pictures this morning. Here they go. This is how it goes. You put a camera on, you can see your thing being built in front of you. But I make the developers over deliver. Like, this is personal. Send me every. I want every single picture for the day and they send them to me. And then if I bring people to develop in your city, you're gonna do Danza the same way. Yeah, Danza. Get WhatsApp. Because they're gonna be sending them. Yeah, right. Cato, get on WhatsApp. Y' all gonna connect. So I want to just make it super safe for everybody. And they're the ones who said, hey, we wanna. We're gonna go with blue. Yeah.

You know, I was just trolling about blue and red.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, but I let them do it.

That's super dope though, man. All about super, super dope.

It's amazing to be a part of.

Now speaking of that and, and to be honest with you, like, I'm not hell bent on all of it. I pay attention to the politics that involve me and the things that I'm doing in my life because to get too far into it, it just seems like everybody's clashing and usually in anything like that I like to kind of be a little bit back here. You guys do all the fighting and stuff like that. Do you feel that in the current affairs that it's better off run like. Like in. In the industry. In the real estate industry right now? Is it tougher right now than under the previous administration?

I honestly don't know. I just do what I do. I got a good cpa. I buy a lot of land. So I don't. I mean, I don't even. It sucks to say that I don't pay too much attention to it because I look at my own world. I'll be more about, like, how can I impact people? How could I make sure we don't go broke under any administration? Yeah. For is what I really be focused on.

I respect that.

And the politics thing, man, it'd be a game to me anyway. It's almost like a popularity contest to me. If I'm gonna keep it real. It don't. I want us to be in a position where it don't affect us, right? Like we got our own money. I just taught 500,000 people how to buy land and make $100,000 minimum per property. Yeah, right. Find the down payment. I don't care where you find it. Call your friends, your brothers. Don't club for a year. Right? Don't get the car that you really want. Just. Just, just find the money to get it. And now we in the game because this is the real game. This is the real monopoly. Well, right. The people that own, in my. This just my opinion, politically, right. The people that got all the money fund the political action committee committees for whoever gets in office, and then they own a bunch of favors anyway. So it really, like, that's how we get.

What are we playing at, right?

Like, I don't know how much that vote really counts when. When I just gave you $4 million and I want you to okay me to build this skyscraper, right? So I want us in position where that don't even matter. Yeah. Get your money, feed your kids, level up. It's free money out here. Now that I spilled the beans on development, everybody can make money. I don't care if you got to get a 500 piece of land in the hood. We in the hood anyway, right? So we need to build it before they build it. It ain't like they vote who wins. Don't matter to me, not one bit. If something goes up, I. I got the money to pay for it.

Yeah.

If it gets better. Cool. Now my people got an easier way to get in the game, it don't matter.

Yeah, we already went through it. We learned how to adapt, and that's how I feel. You know, it doesn't. I don't. I really don't. I wouldn't be able to tell you. You know what I mean? It's tougher under which time, because I'm doing pretty good, you know? So, like, at the end of the day, I've always found a way to adjust because it's. These hurdles are, if you're playing in the. In the league and they make new rules in the league, saying, well, now, you know, you can't make. You can't do this move, or there's. There's no more flapping, and we're going to penalize you for that. You got to adjust at all times. As long as you. As long as you have the ability to adjust under any circumstance, it doesn't matter. You know, it matters about you and what you're looking to do and what you're looking to accomplish. Exactly.

That's why I want us to eat. I want us to eat independently. I'll be mad at the developers that really been making all this money for so long, and they never taught us any of this stuff. I'm like, yo, you had this company building these buildings for how long? And all you doing is like a grant for entrepreneurs. Like, you're not teaching. You're not teaching us how to do it. That's kind of crazy to me.

Yeah, but they don't want. They don't want everybody to win.

No, this is what they be telling. This is what they be teaching. They be telling y' all to go flip and renovate, go fix and flip what they already built 55 times. Go refinance that again and take out another 50,000. Put more paint on it, put new appliances, put hardwood floors now that you leveled up from peel and stick to the lvp, waterproof. Now go do hardwood floors and take more money out. They're not going to tell you, oh, go build it and only pay $200,000. Right? That's not the game. But now that I got the goddamn game, yo, I'm giving it out, right? Everybody go build, please. Go, Bill. It's so easy.

And that's what I was mentioning was a transparency. And look, we appreciate you for coming through and dropping so much knowledge on us because it's. Again, this was something that I had the ability to learn and grow with a podcast like this, with a conversation like this. And again, I definitely would look forward to coming out there in February. I think that would be amazing. But before you leave, I do want to ask you, do you feel in your life because you got a lot going on, right? And this is going to be a super interesting. Because you guys already know the question that's coming, right? But for me, I'm really eager to hear on a scale of a 1 to 100. Because we can't ask. 1 to 10. Too, too slim. 1 to 100. Where do you feel like you are at in the scale of Life right now?

100.

A hundred.

I did it all, bro. I did it all. My. My friend's father's dying and I'm like, yo, man, pick your head up. He lived a good life. Like, as we hear in his story, his pops lived a good life then. So the two guys that I'm telling you about, right? My roommate and my other homie, like, we had so much fun with this thing called life, right? My kids never wanted anything. They got credit cards, they swipe. They have no concept of like financial restraints, right? They got car, they drive what they want. They feel so good about their upbringing, they turn around and thank me for teaching them financial literacy and setting them up that way. I got to see my mom off before she passed. I spent a lot of time with her. Financially, I'm straight. Like, money doesn't even. It doesn't move me. What moves me more is those people you see that say, Charles, thank you. I got my first product. That moves me. I partied like a freaking rock star. Just imagine me with money, right?

Right.

Tall, light skinned dude for the city with money. Now, my conversation with that girl is different. Different, right? So I've cracked that code a long time ago, right? So, like I owned a boat, every car I wanted. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm. I'm overachieved. I'm now doing like, wow. Like having 500 people come to a city because I said is dope. They got money. And I'm backing it up financially, like, with statistics, right? Alabama got $7.7 billion, so it makes sense to go there. But I'm just at the phase where, like, I'm so calm and so, so accomp. So over accomplished that I'm past that 100 long time ago.

Fire. Yeah, Dope way to answer it. A dope way to close this out again. We appreciate you for coming through. Let's. Let's keep connecting. I think that's important. You know, I always tell people that the Danza Project is not a podcast. It's a network, and that's the most important thing. So, again, thank you for coming through. I hope you enjoy the rest of your time out here. I'm pretty sure you're going to be moving and grooving soon. You know what I'm saying?

Nah, man, I did it. I'm going. I'm going to sleep.

No, what I'm saying is I know you. You're going to be in other cities and other places and doing your thing. So we appreciate. Appreciate you greatly.

I appreciate you having me, bro. I love the combo, man. Yes, sir. Appreciate it.

Well, so wait, so you got the.

Conference coming February, February 21st or 22nd.

Where do they go to check that out?

Oh, yeah, that's right.

Oh, let's build birmingham.com. so I named it after the com, like his community centered, community focus. So it's let's build birmingham.com. yeah.

Okay, dope.

You can find me at Charles J. Noonan on Instagram. And all I'm gonna be posting is how easy it is to build me posting houses and stuff. And you'll see that. Yeah, yeah.

I scroll through your page a little bit, see all the progressions.

Yeah.

Some of the walls being put up and.

Yeah.

You fast forward a couple weeks and now you got this put in.

It's.

It is kind of interesting to see.

And then I have fun with it. You should be playing with the machine. You know, I don't know nothing about that machine. Right.

But that's what I want to see. I want to see people that look like me doing things that I never thought that I could do.

Yeah, that's.

That's what. That's what it is. That's the whole attraction of it.

That's why I do it.

Come on.

Yes, sir.

So, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Orlando, sign us out. Dancer project, baby.

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