How Mike Johnson Became a Full-Time Food Blogger | The Food Blogger Pro Podcast

Mike, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, it's. So we have the podcast, the audio, and then we also do video and you have a video where it's like, ah, you know, video. Which is going to be really fun because we're going to be talking about your. Some of the things that you've done with air subs and the work that you've done, you know, perfecting video and learning about video. But before we do that, I want to hear about your transition from an attorney, which is a successful career. It feels like one of those career categories where parents are like, I want my kids to be attorneys or doctors. You know, like these are the career path that, that is aspirational. And you did that, you achieved that. And you've recently gone in a very different direction and have focused on building your brand, building your following online. So when did that happen and what does that transition been like for you?

Yeah, so Mike Bakes NYC actually started when I was in law school. So my, I had always been interested in, you know, like photography and obviously food and desserts, but I just pretty much started it. When I started, I was basically just going to like New York City restaurants and mainly dessert places and just taking pictures of my food. I had like pictures of New York City and stuff on my Instagram account. It was just kind of like a general sort of photography esque account basically. And I noticed that like the pictures of the food that I was taking was like doing, you know, much better. It was getting better engagement, people were like sharing it, things like that.

So it's better than what?

Like, better than like cityscapes or like the skyline and things of that nature. So I was just like, well, maybe I'll like start doing like all food and see like what happens from this. And so I started like only posting pictures of food and you know, eventually restaurants would start to like invite me in and things like that. And I did that for, I don't know, maybe one or two, maybe even three years. The bulk of my following, I guess at this point now, because I've been doing it for a while, I'd say about half of my following came from doing New York City restaurants. And I'd say once I hit like the 80,000 follower mark is when I was like, oh, you know, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna start baking and doing my own stuff. I was at a point in law school where I was, my schedule was just too busy and I couldn't like keep going out to restaurants and traveling around the City to get, you know, content. So I started making content at home. And that kind of led to people, like, asking, oh, like, where's the recipe for this? So at first I was sharing other people's, like, the link to other people's recipes. And then eventually it was like, you know, why don't I look into. I. I had friends that were, you know, food bloggers like that, that do what I do, like Broma Bakery and, you know, other people. Like, I was aware of, of the community and what was possible in being a recipe developer and food photographer and everything. So I was like, you know what? Let me learn everything I can about this. So I bought a bunch of, like, culinary science textbooks and I, like, enrolled in, like, you know, photography courses and watched tyler ton of YouTube videos and basically just like, my little hobby became a, like a second business, basically. So I was like, in school studying for the bar, all this stuff, and eventually working as an attorney and then also learning everything I could about blocking on the side.

It's a lot of learning.

Yeah, it was, it was learning how.

To be an attorney, I feel like, is enough. Yeah, yeah. So a couple things that would be interesting to talk about. One, you know, when you're first starting out there, you said restaurants started to invite me in. Yeah, I think a lot of people would be kind of curious, what does that look like? And, and, and how did that. How did you make that connection? And then are they just, like, giving you free food in order for you to, like, document and post about it? Were you reaching out to them? Were they reaching out to you? What did that look like?

So New York City has, like, a really big, I call it like a foodie influencer scene. Sure. I'm like, there's a lot of, like, food Instagrams where it's like, there may be a person behind the account, but they're only sharing, you know, like, New York City restaurants and stuff. Not, like recipes or stuff that they're eating at home, but still food photography nonetheless. And so, yeah, restaurants will regularly. Sometimes they'll even host, like, influencer events. So they'll invite like, you know, 20 food influencers to come. And it's like, usually when they're launching, like, a new menu or they have a new item and they offer you if, you know, I was doing more of, like, the one on Ones because I just wasn't a fan of going in large groups. So I would, you know, they would reach out to me on Instagram, be like, hey, like, we love your work. If you're Interested in coming in sometime. And I would literally just schedule a date and a time. Whoever, whatever manager was on call or on duty that day, like, knew I was coming in and they would just like, save me. I would have a table, you know, near the window and they would just be like, order whatever you want. And everything was comped and I just took pictures and, you know, they would just ask. I never. So when I was doing it, I never at the time, like, no one really asked, like, oh, could you do this this and this that. So like, it was never like, you have to post this.

Right.

I always posted on my stories and in feed at the time. And yeah, so that's pretty much what I did for. It was quite a few years. And that was basically a broke law school student. That's how I was eating and feeding myself. Totally was by getting these free meals from restaurants in the city.

So were you nervous about transitioning your account from one that was documenting restaurants and. And, you know, different meals that they would offer? Maybe it's a new restaurant, trendy restaurant, and they have a new menu item that they're offering. You go document that to doing your own recipes and kind of a shift in focus for the audience that you had built. So you have, you know, kind of 80,000 people. It's a substantial amount of people who are expecting a certain type of content from you.

Yeah.

Were you nervous to then switch and start publishing your own recipes and your own content that you might use those people?

Extremely. I. There was like a solid month where I think every single week I posted a poll in my stories and was like, sure, you know, like, what are you interested in seeing? Like, are you. Would you be interested in like homemade recipes and, you know, not necessarily like New York City restaurant photography. What if I changed my name? Because at the time I was Mike Eats nyc, not Mike Bakes nyc.

Sure, I was going to ask about that.

Yeah.

Because I was like, oh, that's interesting that you call it Bakes. When you started, when it was actually just document.

Yeah, it was. It used to be my nyc. And so that's why I changed it to Bake. So it's like it's still like close enough that if people see, maybe they'll be like, oh, let's check out and see, like, what is the switch? What's going on here? And maybe I won't lose that initial following. But yeah, I was extremely worried at first, but I'd say over. I mean, I did, I am not going to lie, I did lose some followers. But Overall, I started gaining traction with a whole new audience, and so I just started growing exponentially. And part.

Part of it. Part of it is what is going to be the best fit for you moving forward. And I would imagine one of the hard things is, even in those early polls, the people are following you because you had created certain type of content. So it was like, you know, to use a really extreme example, if you did, like, nature photography, like National Geographic type photography, and then somebody's like, I'm going to pivot super hard into, like, muscle cars. And you're like, what kind of content do you want to see? Everybody'd be like, nature photography, and nobody would say muscle cars. Yeah, but there are still people who want to see pictures of muscle cars. They're just not the people who are following you necessarily. Now, for your example, the Venn diagram overlap. There's more. It's like food.

Exactly.

You can stay in kind of the same category, but you still will lose people. Did you feel like any of that was true when you would do those polls where it was, like, kind of slanted towards people who are just saying what you had always produced, but you was. Was it that you knew that this would be a better fit of content for you moving forward? And so you said, this is what I'm going to do.

Yeah. So when I did the polls, I'd say the closest it ever was was I. At one point, like, towards the last week of me asking basically the same questions, it was around, like, 50. 50. I'd say, like, 55. Were like, keep it New York City restaurants. 45. Or like, oh, we're interested in, like, you know, developed recipes. But, like, in thinking about it, I just. I knew that there would be more of an opportunity for me, I guess, if I. If I did the, you know, went the homemade recipe and learned how to develop things and, you know, went that route just because at the end of the day, my. When I was doing this Instagram as, like, a hobby, not as, like a business, I was doing it more so for the photography aspect, like, the food photography is what is interesting to me. Not to say I don't like developing recipes. I do, but I'm just way more interested in the food side of things. Yeah. So I knew that there would be opportunities down the line if I had developed those skills and was able to, like, you know, build out that skillset more so than if I were to just continue doing New York City restaurant photography.

Yeah. Like what, What. When you think of the opportunities, what would those be?

So I just. I knew, like I mentioned earlier, I. My friend Sarah from Burma Bakery, I knew about, you know, sponsored opportunities and things like that. And so I was like, maybe, you know, one day if I, you know, learn this skill set, maybe I will have brands reaching out to me that'll want to pay me? Because obviously I had had a lot of, like, restaurants and stuff coming out, but for the. The most part, I wasn't really making money, despite my large following. Like, I think I did maybe two sponsored posts with, like, Seamless and grubhub and, you know, in partnership with another restaurant. But outside of that, like, I wasn't really making money. So it truly was just like a hobby or passion project. And I knew for the amount of time that I was putting into it, I was like, oh, it'd be nice if I could, like, make, you know, a little bit of extra money and use that for, I don't know, food or whatever I decided to use it for.

Yeah, totally. So at what point in making that decision to switch did you realize, like, oh, I can actually create an income from this? Like, was there a point where you're like, I'm glad I made the switch because now these opportunities are starting to come about.

Ooh. So I think there was a point where I had that, like, thought, but it was like, honestly, maybe a solid, like, nine or ten months after I made the switch that I was like, oh, okay. Like, this is actually, like, this was a good idea because I. I was very slow in making my. My transition to being, like, to doing only my content. Essentially. I. I'd say I launched my website in May of 2018. Um, and I posted my first, like, developed recipe May of 2018. The next recipe that I posted wasn't until, like, November of 2018. Like, I was very slow and, like, just very, like, apprehensive, I guess, of, like, am I making the right decision? And so it took me some time to, like, fully lean into it. Yeah. But I think, like, once I did and I, like, fully transitioned to. I think towards the end of 2018 is when I was finally just, like, only posting photos of food that I had made. I wasn't doing any more New York City stuff. I think that's when I was finally, like, okay, I think this is going to be worth it. I saw, you know, my follower count was starting to grow. And early that next year is when I started getting brands reaching out to me for a collab.

Yep.

And offering payment off the bat. So, yeah.

Which was probably a huge moment, like, really Exciting. Is that Instagram then that those people would be reaching out, like, is that a brand sending you a DM on Instagram and saying, hey, could we partner and work together?

Yeah. When I was first starting out, most of my, most of the brands that would contact me were through Instagram dms or they would DM me and ask if I had an email address that they could contact me because I just did not have a professional profile and didn't have my email listed or anything. But once I, you know, added the whole, you know, how you can have a business account and have your email button and everything. Once I added that, brands consistently would email me rather than dm.

Yeah. And one of the things that's interesting is you see this starting to happen now. It's different than when we started, which is like we would start almost like blog first. So we start a blog and then like everything that we have is kind of supporting the blog, Facebook, Instagram, things like that. What you see now is like a lot of people will start on a platform. Instagram, TikTok now would be another example. They kind of validate some, some of the ideas they have. They are able to move forward with that almost as like a testing ground. Hey, people are interested in, they want to do it. And then kind of building around that.

Yeah, that's, that's exactly what, what I did and kind of how my journey or career path has been was Instagram was, was basically where the bulk of my following was, was at the time. And I was like, you know, maybe I should, you know, expand and get other platforms and my own blog and have my own space. And it's, I think for me at least on, on my end it's almost felt like I've been trying to play like catch up on like the blog end because like I already had this significantly large following by the time I launched my blog. And you know, it was just trying to like promote essentially and get the word out there like, hey, like I'm on other things now, like this is what I'm offering, go check it out. And so, and I guess like the, all of the, the learning curve that is, you know, having your own self hosted website. So it has been quite the experience.

Do you feel like you've been able to kind of siphon off some of the success you've had with Instagram to the blog? Or have those been pretty separate? Like obviously the content can be used in multiple places.

Yeah.

But can the audience transition over. Have you found success in getting people on Instagram to go to your site or is it kind of like you're building this thing in one town and then you're building another thing in another town and people aren't going to go if. Unless they're. Check it out. Unless they're from the town that you're building the thing in.

So it feels like a little bit of both, honestly. I would say when I first started my blog and, you know, had a total of like five recipes, my, you know, web traffic was all coming from social media. It was either, you know, Pinterest or Instagram. And just from me sharing, you know, swipe up links and posting in feed and putting, you know, the link is in my bio and all that stuff. And so primarily when I was first starting out, I'd say, honestly, almost up for the first year of me starting out, I also started off on Squarespace. So, like, SEO is not like a really big thing. I didn't really know anything about it. So all of my traffic primarily was coming from, you know, the audiences that I already had at the time. I had a very small email list, things of that nature. And now I would say it's. It's primarily, I mean, I think my social media, like all of social media. So whether it's TikTok, Pinterest, anything like that, I think only makes up like 15, maybe 20% of the traffic that I get. So it's primarily all coming from organic search and Google and stuff now, which is great and I'm happy. But it does feel almost like I have like a disconnect in audiences. So I find like, blog posts, I like regularly reference things that have happened on Instagram or like, oh, I posted a poll on my stories, or like, I'll like plug myself in my blog posts because I feel like I'm talking to two different audiences.

Yeah, yeah, like giving them the context around what's been happening in other places. Is that, Is that what you mean? So like, hey, yeah. And it's also, I feel like, you know, as content creators, one of the skills that you need to develop, which it sounds like you're doing, is like the ability to say, hey, I'm going to create content unique for this platform. But I'm also going to mention, while writing a blog post, Instagram, but not in a way where it's like, you have to go to Instagram in order to receive any benefit. And in the same way on Instagram, not saying like, hey, you have to go to the blog to get any of the benefit, but finding that right mix of like, hey, this thing's over here. You can check it out and you probably should, but to not cut off all of the value in any place. Have you found. When you're publishing content on any social platforms, are you putting the entire recipe on there? Are you encouraging people to go to the blog and check it out? What's your, what are your thoughts around that?

So I'd say nine times out of ten, I primarily, I'll say for my own recipes, I don't ever put the entire recipe on. I guess that's not completely true. I'd say 98% of the time I'm not putting the full recipe on like Instagram or TikTok or anything. I will just like, I do a lot of like behind the scenes, like step by step videos of me making recipes. So I will post, you know, like an edited video of me making the recipe start to finish and then at the end I'll do a swipe up link to the full recipe. The blog post. There are some, I think there are a total of maybe three or four recipes that only live on Instagram. And it's either they were like adapted from a friend from a cookbook, or it was a sponsored post that I did with the brand where it was only for Instagram or to live on stories and not to go on the blog. So that's just where the recipe lives. So I primarily do, I do try to encourage people from Instagram to go to the blog to get the full recipe.

Cool. And at what point did you go full time? When was that?

It was March 2020.

Okay.

Wow. Yeah.

Was that like in New York too? Was that, was it like beginning of March, End of March? Like I feel like March 2020 is like one of the fastest changing from beginning to end months.

Yeah, it was end of March. So I, I, when I was working as an attorney, I was working initially I was working for the city slash state as a prosecutor. And November of 2019 I left that job and went to a private law firm. I just, I figured if I was going to work long hours, I wanted to make money. Honestly, that's what it was. So I went to a private firm and from, I was there from November to March and three weeks. So New York City are like stay at home orders. You can't leave the house. Went into effect in March. Um, so when we were working from home, it was the third week of March. Um, the managing partner of the law firm I was at sent out an email to all of us and was like, basically it was, it Said that the one of the attorneys that was working for that was in charge of like the finance for the firm had been stealing money from the firm for years, like 20 plus years. And so the combination of this attorney stealing money and Covid and everything, they just couldn't afford to keep operating. So the firm itself actually filed for bankruptcy. And they were like, you guys, oh my gosh. In a week and a half. So I was frantically applying for jobs in the city, which was, I was getting interviews, but basically it was like, we don't know what's going on. Yeah, totally new people line, you know, whatever. So I was just like, this is the, It's a now or never. I was like, this is the perfect time for me to try. I, I'm very risk averse and obviously I went to law school and, and got my, I'll say dream job of when I was growing up. So I always had excuses for not taking my bakes and my full time. And so this was kind of when I was just like, all right, maybe.

The only way that it would have happened.

Exactly.

I was like, this is global pandemic, the company you're working for going bankrupt. Like, it's really every door shutting.

Exactly.

And then like brand and food work is like, this door is still open.

Yeah, exactly. That's. That's exactly what happened. I honestly, I think I might have taken the leap myself had none of that happened. But I honestly, it probably would have been two or three years down the line. I don't think I would have done it as soon as I did. So I just told myself, you know, March hit, end of March, rolled around. I was like, all right, let's try this out for, you know, two or three months and then if it's not working out, let's. We'll figure out something else.

What were those first? Yeah, go ahead.

I've always kept my law license valid, so it's still my fallback option as a worst case scenario. But yeah, it's been. I haven't looked back since March. I'm definitely happier and enjoying what I do now.

Why do you think that is? Like, why do you think you're happier?

And I honestly, I. I've always been someone that's been, I'll say, like a creative person. So like in middle school and high school, I did all of my electives were, you know, art classes. I did like PR iv, art, photography, I was in yearbook. Just everything like art related, essentially, I've always been interested in and I think just the nature of how I was raised, it was always like, oh, those are nice to have as a hobby, but, like, sure, let's get something more secure as a job. So those are just. That's kind of how I, like, grew up looking at everything that I was doing is like, oh, these are, like, fun hobbies. Probably can't make a career out of it. And I think once I, like, got old, older and, like, I guess, wiser in a sense, and like, knew that it was possible to actually make a career out of it, is when I was like, all right, let's, like, work for what I'm actually interested in. Not to say I'm not interested in law, obviously.

Right.

All of this money and all these years studying and going to school. But. But it's. It's like what started as, like, a creative outlet for me became like, what I found myself. Like, it was like, wow, I really enjoy what I'm doing more so than when I was, you know, working as an attorney. And so having the opportunity to kind of, like, pursue that and go forward with it has been amazing.

Yeah. Knowing what you know now, would you have still gone to law school?

Yes, only because. So now I. I have a manager that handles all of my, like, brand sponsorships and everything like that. But when I was first starting out and, you know, brands were reaching out to me, the fact that I went to law school and knew everything about crafting contracts, you know, I had that background knowledge, I was definitely, I'd say, more ahead of the curve than the average, like, food influencer, food blogger that's just starting out. Like, I just had that kind of legal knowledge that really helped me and helped with negotiations, like, in getting paid more money than I'd say most people that were, you know, just starting out.

What did you know about. What did your experience as an attorney help you with and with negotiations? Like, what did. What did that look like?

I think, honestly, it was just more of, like, it helped, like, I guess in the way that I would phrase what I was trying. The point that I was trying to get across. So I felt that, like, they were asking for a lot and not paying what I thought that they should be basically having a intelligent way of saying that without being like, hey, I think you should pay me more. Being able to structure, like, all right, I'm going to be offering, you know, XYZ and giving them some sort of, like, data or something to back everything up to kind of be like, hey, like, this should be more. Or, you know, if you're not willing to pay more Then maybe let's negotiate down some of the deliverables that I'm going to be providing to you. Whereas I don't think a lot of, like, beginner food bloggers are, like, necessarily confident in doing that. They're like, oh, a brand wants to work with me. Let me just say yes to everything. And, yeah, you know, I'm excited for this opportunity.

Yeah, I think some people are, like you said, so excited about the potential. It's like, yes, let's do it. Not knowing, to your point that you can actually come back and say, hey, super excited about this. It's not like you have to pretend not to be excited. But in what I heard you saying was like, list out what you're providing him. Here's what it would look like when I pride this, you know, like, these photographs, I would be developing the recipe. I would be, you know, communicating with you back and forth, two rounds of revisions. And usually I would, you know, charge this amount. You came in at this amount. Is that kind of what you're saying is like kind of breaking it out a little bit, providing some context? It's not just like a post on Instagram. There's a lot that goes into it. Calling that out and then saying, with this in mind, here's what I would expect to get paid for that. Yeah, got it. What were those first two to three months, like, for you, when you got. When you were like, I'm no longer an attorney. You're still technically an attorney, but, like, working as an attorney. And I'm doing this very different thing of, like, building a food brand online.

So it was very stressful because I was actually working on finishing up my first cookbook at the time. My first cookbook was completely written and photographed while I was still working as an attorney. So the month of March, the end of March is actually into April is when all of my photos were due. I'd sent the manuscript off at the end of February, so I was like, working as an attorney, working from home. And then like in between, like, zoom calls, I would be like, be in the kitchen, like, preparing something for me to photograph after the zoom call. So it was like a lot of, like, back and forth, a balancing act. It was, it was. Yeah, I didn't sleep much. And then obviously, you know, the stay at home orders, orders hit and people went crazy. So, like, there was a whole ingredient shortage. So, like, I luckily was, you know, kind of sucked up because I was working on a cookbook. But I had to, like, plan out in my head, like, all Right. This is what I need to get these cookbook photos done. And then like this is how much, you know, flour or sugar I have left for any like recipe testing and new recipes. So that's when I started doing like small batch desserts and things like that. And so for the month, like March and April, everything that I put out was small batch recipes because I figured if I had trouble getting flour, maybe else was in the same boat.

Interesting.

So it was, it was, it was definitely an interesting time.

Yeah.

For the first like two months, I'd say it wasn't until like summertime. So I, you know, I'd say end of March is when I went full time. I'd say like June, July is when I like finally got into the groove of like waking up and like, all right, this is what I'm doing today. And you know, kind of getting some sort of schedule figured out.

Yeah. What does that look like at a high level? What is your day to day, week to week schedule?

So it is constantly changing. I don't know if it's. I haven't found what works for me or if I just like find something that works and then get bored with it.

Sure.

When I initially started out, I was doing kind of like an hourly type thing. So like I would wake up, I would do computer, like check and check on emails and you know, anything I might have missed. Catch up on social media, reply to comments for like the first hour of the day essentially. And then I would go straight to the kitchen and do any recipe testing that I had or preparing. If I was doing a shoot that day, preparing whatever it was that I was planning on shooting. If I had a shoot, then, you know, afternoon would be the shoot and sometimes I would start editing. There was no shoot. If I just recipe tested, then I would do like back end blog stuff, working on blog posts, things like that. And nighttime was I. The one thing I've tried to hold on to is like not working all hours into the night because as you.

Know, you had done that for.

Yeah. As anyone that owns a business, you like always something you could be doing. So it's like, it's hard to like, you know, separate, give yourself you're never done or you're not doing something. Totally. But I have tried to hold on to like not working too late. I'm not going to say that's always what happens, but now I'd say I do. I try to do like daily tasks. I break up what I'm doing for the week by day. So like I have One day where it's only computer stuff. One day where, you know, if I'm in the kitchen, I'm only in the kitchen for that day. Whether it's like, I'll do recipe testing and shoot days on the same days. But I try to computer work separate from creative work because I just find it's. My brain processes it better and I. I go into shoots feeling better when I'm just like, oh, I've only been in the kitchen today. I haven't been staring at a computer screen.

Yes.

So I'd say now and for the past. Honestly, probably like the past four or five months, that's been my sort of schedule. I would say it changes from week to week. So I don't always do, like, you know, not every Monday. As a computer day. It just depends on, like, what. What I'm working on. If I have deadlines that are approaching, things like that. I basically have a calendar that's a bunch of sticky notes on it that are coordinated with. This is what I'm doing for today. It's cool. People that have ocd, it's their best friend. Honestly. It's very, very neat and organized.

But, yeah, that's Aw, Sam.