S1 Ep11: 8 Steps to Unf*ck Your Life and Create Your Dream Life - Roxie Nafousi

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If we pin our happiness on reaching this goal, we're fucked.

It's quite clear that you went through a real wake-up call in your life.

I discovered drugs and alcohol. I hit rock bottom and I called a friend of mine and she said I should listen to a podcast about manifestation.

Is manifestation real?

Essentially manifesting is using the power of your mind to change and create the reality you experience.

I suppose if you could go back to that 27, 28-year-old self, what's the advice that you would give her?

Read my book. I challenge you to read that book and not change your life. It would be impossible to follow these 7 steps and not see a positive change in your life.

Like, how can people remove the barriers of fear from their lives?

There's nothing more triggering than confidence.

How can someone start to build their self-worth?

This is the first time I've spoken about this, by the way.

Love it. Um, Roxy, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on Wake Up.

Oh, well, thank you so much. I am actually a super fan, so thank you for having me.

Well, I'm very pleased that you, uh, that you've come on. The funny thing is, on this show, we talk a lot about trying to capture moments that change people's lives and like wake-up calls you know, the wake-up moment and so forth. And obviously you've been through this huge journey that's had continuous knock-on effects, but you had a real wake-up call in your life which has kind of changed the direction of your life forever. So for those people that don't know you watching, um, can you tell us a little bit about your background?

So I, uh, grew up in Oxford, um, as a sort of Iraqi daughter of immigrants, um, definitely just always felt like an outsider. Had no self-worth, no sort of drive. And then I, I, I discovered drugs and alcohol and allowed that to sort of cloud over like 10 years of my life until I got to 27. And it was May 2018 and I hit rock bottom. I really felt that I was kind of at a point in my life where I thought, I'm never gonna change. I'm always gonna be, depressed. I'm never going to have self-worth. I don't know if I'm ever going to overcome my addictions. And I called a friend of mine and she said I should listen to a podcast about manifestation. So I did. And I realized that manifesting was all about self-worth, of which I had none. So I went and researched everything I could on this practice and delved into the whole world of self-development and healing. And began to change my life in every way imaginable.

And I think from watching you, I wouldn't— I don't get the impression that you were particularly spiritual before. No, it wasn't that apparent in your life.

No, not at all. I mean, I'd practice yoga because I had a bad back, but that was kind of— but that was basically it. No, I was just too busy partying and having fun and And even now, you know, I suppose I am spiritual, but I wouldn't say I'm super spiritual. I think I still, I see, yeah, I think I approach manifestation from a very logical and practical point of view.

So I suppose if you could go back to that 27, 28-year-old self before you had that moment, what's the advice that you would give her?

Stop taking drugs to start with. And I'd had an experiment that they'd done with rats where they'd put rats in a cage and there was a button to press for cocaine. And if you, the rats, pressed for cocaine once, they would then continue to keep pressing for it essentially until they died. But then they moved the rats into a different cage, which was kind of like rat heaven. There was like wheels and other rats and food. And when they were put in a different environment, the same thing didn't happen. And so I was like, oh, okay, so maybe it's not just that I'm an addict. Maybe it's that the rest of my life is so unfulfilled that it's keeping me trapped. And, you know, having— when I got pregnant, I suddenly had to give up all my addictions very, very rapidly. And some people say, oh, you know, because you had kids, you stopped doing drugs. But it's not the case. I mean, there's lots of people who have kids and carry on doing drugs afterwards. But what happened was during that pregnancy, I realized and visualized that this life that I was going to make for myself, and I found my purpose, which was to help others. And it was that purpose that actually took me away from addiction and into this new beginning. And so I would've told my younger self, like, find something you are good at and that you love and focus on it.

And so your friend tells you about a podcast, which, I mean, we should all be very thankful to your friend because, you know, millions of people have read your books. We should all thank them. You watched this podcast.

Mm-hmm.

What was the first suppose actual manifestation that you did? What was the evidence that came back from the exercise that you were like, yeah, this is working for me?

Okay. So the first thing I did was basically what I had learned really quickly was that we hold subconscious beliefs about ourselves.

Mm-hmm.

And because of neuroplasticity, we could change the beliefs that we have about ourselves through repeated thought and behaviours. And so I learned that, and then I also learned that our subconscious mind is most susceptible to positive messaging at 3 points in the day when it's in a theta brainwave state. So as we're waking, as we're falling asleep, and when we're in a meditative state. So these are these like precious moments upon waking and, and when you're falling asleep, when you're like between sleep and wakefulness.

Mm-hmm.

So the first thing I, a kind of tool that I used was listening to positive affirmations and falling asleep to them.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, it was such an easy tool. All you have to do is literally fall asleep. But what I wanted to manifest first was finding a relationship. So I started falling asleep to these like finding love affirmation meditations that I would play on YouTube. Wow. That would be like, you are ready to meet your soulmate.

Oh wow.

Yeah. And I was like, fuck it, I'm going to try it.

Yeah.

Like, what have I got to lose? And then I made like a vision board list of my perfect partner. And then 2 weeks later, Wade messaged me on a dating app. So, oh wow, yeah, that was the kind of like my— the first few things that I started to do.

And so I asked my audience before you came on what questions we should ask you. And as I'd say, it's like a very, um, like business entrepreneur type audience. I'd also say that I am myself quite cynical, although funnily enough, like, as we will talk about today, I am actually a firm believer in manifestation. I didn't necessarily know it was called that, but it like defines almost everything about me. But I asked the audience what they ask, and because they're so cynical, their first question was, is manifestation real or is it just a placebo effect?

Yeah, it absolutely is real, but you have to understand what manifestation really is.

Mm-hmm.

I think that where the cynicism comes from is a complete lack of understanding of the practice, and that's because manifestation has become a trend. It's become so devalued. People use it in language now, like common language. But they're not using it correctly. So they're just like, oh, I manifested, oh, I manifested that summer holiday or whatever. Like, yeah, they're just using it but not knowing really what it means. Manifesting is actually like a really ancient practice. It's been around for centuries and it's rooted in science, wisdom, spirituality. I think there's psychology, you know, neuroscience. I think there's, there's so much to this practice and essentially manifesting is using the power of your mind to change and create the reality you experience. And it's about mindset. It's about self-belief. It's about taking aligned action, stepping outside your comfort zone, gratitude. Like it's a really full practice. And what it's not is just thinking about what you want, making a vision board and waiting for it to happen. And when, you know, when I laid out my 7-step guide to manifesting, what I realized is that it would be impossible to follow these 7 steps and not see a positive change in your life. Like, it's literally impossible. And so I think to that, you know, manifesting is 100% real. I think it's just that the word has perhaps been devalued. And actually, you know, I think it's really interesting you said, oh, I didn't know the term. And what I say often is that I think everybody is manifesting all the time. Totally. They just don't know that they're using it. And actually, a lot of great thinkers, philosophers, they're all talking about how we can use the power of our mind to change our reality. They're just not using the word manifest always.

I was told quite a nice analogy this morning when I was talking to someone about having you on the show, and they said that they think that manifesting and being intentional in your life is a little bit like skiing. You know, if you're skiing and you look in the direction you want to go, you are gonna fall. But if you turn and position your body in the direction that you're gonna go, you will go that direction. And I feel like a lot of what you talk about is aligning your behaviours with the outcomes. And the term is a fantastic term, but like you say, it's kind of been hijacked.

Yeah.

A little bit by social media.

100%. I feel like I'm the PR for manifesting. Yeah. So doing damage control and trying to bring people back to its true meaning.

Yeah. The other question that the audience asked, which makes me very proud that they would ask this, is, is how do you set realistic goals?

Hmm. Okay. Great question. So I, when I ask people to think about what it is that they want from their life and what goals they want to reach, I, I often say to people like, please do not be realistic. Like as soon as you start to be realistic, you are being limited by your own fears and doubts. Your insecurities are stopping you at this very first step from even thinking about what you really want to achieve and what's possible for you. But while I think it's really important to break those kind of barriers of your own mind with being realistic, I think it's also very important to understand why it is you want something. So somebody might hear me say, oh, don't, you know, don't be realistic. And they'll say, fine, well, I'm just gonna put that I want to manifest 3 cars and a million followers. And my question is, why? Why do you want 3 cars and a million followers? Because likely if those are the kind of things you want to manifest is because you're you are seeking validation from them. And I think that if you are seeking external validation or status or power through these material things like an amount of followers or a number of cars or, you know, a number in your bank, then no, I don't think that's possible because the intention isn't driven by true fulfillment, purpose, contentment, passion. And so I think that's the distinction. If you have a, um, a goal that is really driven by this intention of being of value to the world, of making yourself feel happy, fulfilled, content, excited, then dream as big as you can. But if the intention is just to feel like you are good enough or that you are attractive to the opposite sex, or that you will feel like you have some kind of status or power, then I do not think it is the right thing.

I love that. Actually, my— I was saying before the show, my brothers and I, in some way, I feel like were brought up by someone who had a very strong concept of aligning yourself towards goals. So when we were younger, we would do New Year's resolutions together as a family. Like, he would sit us down and he'd say, what are you aiming at this year? And he'd always tell you that thing, which is like, you overestimate what you can do in a short period and underestimate what you can do in a longer period. And so he would always be like, what's your sort of moonshot goal for the year? And as like, you know, teenagers, we were writing down, you know, cuz I started my businesses at 14, I would be writing down like revenue numbers and sales numbers at 14.

Wow.

And he would be like, do you think that's achievable? And I'd be like, well, I suppose over the year if I was to break it down by the month, you know, and at a young age, if you start, you know, intentionally directing yourself towards these goals, the behaviours sometimes follow.

Yeah.

And I think the better you get at it, the more accurate you can become at actually predicting where you'll get to.

100%.

That makes sense.

Oh God, I love that. I got my son Wolf, he's 5, but he did his first vision board this year.

Oh, amazing.

Yeah, it was very cute.

The other question the audience asked was— and it's funny because I had missed that your beginning manifestation was about a relationship— but the other question was, can someone manifest a relationship? So if you're single and you're struggling, How do you practically go about manifesting an outcome you want?

Um, yes, you absolutely can manifest a relationship. I would say it's one of the hardest things to manifest because the secret of manifesting is that we manifest what we subconsciously believe we are worthy of receiving. So you can dream about your dream job, uh, your dream partner, your dream home, whatever it is, as much as you want. But if you deep down don't believe you're worthy of of those things, then you won't be able to attract it into your life. And because so many of us hold so many sort of deep wounds around relationships and love, it's often the hardest thing for us to manifest because there's so much more healing that needs to be done. But we can absolutely manifest, and you essentially just follow my 7 steps to manifesting but, um, make it work for dating. So step 1, be clear in your vision. You would get a really clear idea of the kind of person you want to meet, the kind of relationship you want to have, the kind of values the person has, and how you want to feel within that relationship. Step 2, remove fear and doubt. So you'd be looking at your healing journey around love and relationships. Step 3, align your behavior in terms of dating. That might mean just going on dating apps, letting your friends set you up on dates, leaving the house a bit more. Um, step 4, overcome tests from the universe. This is all about how you persist through challenges. And it is also about not settling for less than you deserve. So in terms of dating, that might be not texting your ex or not just seeing someone for the attention, even though you know it is not going to work between you guys. Step 5 is embrace gratitude, which keeps you in a sort of high vibrational state and frequency. And really gratitude with relationships, that is about Not just thinking you'll be happy when you find someone, but actually making your life as it is feel as good as possible. Step 6, turn envy into inspiration. Step 7, have trust in the universe. Yeah.

But you talk a lot about self-worth being the foundations of manifestation. So can you explain why self-worth is the first point to, you know, target? And like, how can someone practically today start to build their self-worth?

Well, the way it kind of— the way that I see it is that our belief systems influence our entire reality because they become the filter through which we view the whole world. So the beliefs we hold about ourselves influence everything because they determine the meaning we attach to every interaction we have with someone, every event that happens. It determines whether we take risks, how we communicate, what boundaries we set, how we feel, and therefore what vibration we are, you know, what vibrational frequency we are operating at. It really determines everything. And so, if we have a belief that we are not good enough, good things do not happen for us, our life is unfair, we are unlucky, people do not like us, then imagine how we are going to show up in the world and how we are going to respond to the things that happen to us. Whereas if we can start to realize that we are enough as we are, that we are deserving of success, that we deserve money, love, joy, all those things, then how differently are we going to conduct ourselves and live? And so it really is the kind of foundation of everything. And it is why my new book, Confidence, I think is so integral to the manifesting journey. You don't have to have read Manifest to read Confidence. They're two completely separate books, but manifestation and confidence are so deeply intertwined. And for me, confidence is actually just a culmination of, you know, self— the way when I talk about confidence, I talk about self-worth, self-esteem, you know, the way that we feel about ourselves day to day. And I think, I mean, there's so many ways we can start to build our self-worth. So I've come up with this kind of 8-step guide to confidence, which— so the book is Confidence: 8 Steps to Knowing Your Worth. And step 1 is master your thoughts. So this is all about our— the way that we speak to ourselves, the way that we interpret things. I talk a lot about recognizing all the cognitive biases that we have and all the thought filters. I call them thought filters, how we distort our perception of everything that happens based on the beliefs we had about, have about ourselves and how we can, this is the first time I've spoken about this, by the way.

Love it.

So master your thoughts is step one. There's loads of tools we can use, even little things like using positive affirmations to replace those negative thoughts, questioning our thoughts by, you know, using Socratic questioning. There's, there's so many different things we can do. Step two is act with intention. So I think self-worth and confidence is not just about, the way that we think, but it is about the way that we behave. You know, they say actions speak louder than words. And it is about showing yourself that you believe you are worthy of respect and love. And that is in the habits that you commit to, your daily routines, the way that the boundaries that you set, as we mentioned earlier. It is all those behaviors and figuring out, are they empowering you or are they holding you back? Step 3 is stop trying to be liked by everyone. This is like so key. Step 4 is break free from comparison. Step 5 is do hard things. So I think there's so much, I mean, it's so important to be able to show ourselves that we do, can do the things we thought we couldn't. And I'm sure you love that one. I feel like that's a bit of you.

Yeah.

Step 6 is celebrate yourself. And this is all about the fact that I think we find it so hard to Especially if we have low self-worth. I think it's so hard to shout about ourselves, to praise ourselves, to accept praise from others. And this is because as a society we glorify humility. It's like a really important trait to have, but we take it too far. And part of the reason we take it too far is because we are so afraid of coming across as arrogant. Yeah. And it's actually being able to distinguish arrogance from confidence and realize that they are not the same thing. Step 7 is then be of service to others. I think that it feels good to do good, and it is so— I mean, it is just an incredible feeling to know that you are of value to the people around you, to your community, to the world. And I think that doing kind things for others is this constant reinforcement that we are worthy. And then Step 8 is show up as your future self, and this is about body language, it's about dressing the part, it's about, uh, being able to make decisions without always needing approval from everyone else. So yeah, so those 8 steps are sort of how you really build that self-worth.

So thinking about before you went on this journey, one of the things I think is very apparent in entrepreneur's journey and the journey of like people who step out and do something quite successful is how their friends react to it. And obviously for you, your life has changed so dramatically from where you were to where you are now. Do you still have the same friends? How did they react at the time to, you know, as you said, go, you know, doing drugs, not being your best self, to now? How did they react to that?

Do you know, I have quite a lot of the same friends.

Yeah.

Um, uh, yeah, I have a good core group who are absolutely the same, and I think just feel very proud. And, you know, they've been really there for me. I have a couple of friends who my relationship with them has changed because they're still where I was, and I have zero judgment and love them so much. But I don't spend the same amount of time with them. They're just kind of— I, I'm there for them when they need me. Um, and I just have a ton of new friends. But I think what is interesting is there's a lot of people who definitely were not very nice to me back in the day and didn't show me any kind of respect, who definitely now I might see out. And, and you can see that, you know, their attitude towards me has changed, which is really nice.

And yeah, yeah, I think though that everyone who goes through like a massive period of change or, you know, progression in their life is going to experience that. And it's, it's horrible. Yeah, you know, you're— the people by their very nature will be like, why is this person stepping out of the ordinary?

Oh yeah.

And I suppose even like from my personal experience, I started a business so young that everyone just thought it was a joke.

Yeah, everyone just thought, you know, did you struggle to like keep like good friends when you were so young and having running a business?

I think, I mean, my friends would tell you that I disappeared for like 7 or 8 years. Legitimately will say he was a ghost for 8 years. And, and then I always, I always say like just after COVID, because of COVID work changed dramatically. Like, in many ways, work-life balance was kind of forced on a lot of people, and someone like myself who worked all hours was kind of forced into— my business collapsed, I had to like furlough 80 people or something, and I suddenly started seeing all my friends again.

Yeah.

And everyone was like, where have you been?

And I was like, very good friends that they waited that long.

Honestly, I, I would say that I'm very lucky to have the friends I have. Yeah, I am so lucky that when I finally re-emerged from the world, I don't think it was like instantly back in the group. Um, and you know, like some people have reacted amazingly, some people less so.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, very lucky to have great friends that welcomed me back in. But I think to do anything like special or different or so forth, you kind of will go through that ups and down period.

You know, I think what people don't talk about enough is that you don't really know who your friends are through the tough times.

Mm-hmm.

You know your friends through the good times because it's easy for people to actually be attracted to drama or when you're feeling sad and, you know, to feel like they're needed in that moment. Or they might thrive off, you know, the drama, like I said. But actually for a friend to see you thrive and to genuinely celebrate you that is true friendship.

Yeah.

And that is way fucking harder to find.

So rare. I would always say, and people watch this will love this, but my best friend is a guy called Ben Askins who also has like quite a big public profile and all the rest of it. He was my business partner originally, and he has had unbelievable successes. Yeah, he's become like a guest presenter on LBC, massive channels, new book. His book's called, um, My Boss Is a Moron. Like, he's just Amazing. Anyway, his success is so much that a lot of people I can see being like, oh, you know, fuck, you know, whereas I'm just, I'm literally cheering for him because I know he is for me. And that again, I think is incredibly rare for people.

It is. I think from a manifestation point of view, being able to celebrate other people is so important and it's something I talk about in Manifest in step 6, turn envy into inspiration. Because the thing is, I do think there is, it's when you— the more successful you get, without doubt, the more people don't like you. Okay, for example, my friend sent me this really like scathing, um, article on Stephen Bartlett, right? And I read it and I just thought, fuck, it's honestly so sad. Like, I don't really know Stephen. I, I love his podcast, but I'm not like a super Stephen fan or anything like that. But either way, I find it very sad that Clearly he's a clever guy, he's done great things, but people just love to take down successful people, especially the British media. And I do find it a really sad thing. And I think that is also part of why people get so— I mean, I speak for myself, and I'm sure there are people who can relate. Like, I— the more success I have, the more I have this underlying fear that I'm just about to be taken down or destroyed. I have this like fear of doom. And I'm like, oh shit. And it— why is that? Like, it's so sad because actually the more confident we are, the more in our power we are, the more effortless it is to celebrate other people because we're not threatened by them. One person's success does not take away from our own. And how empowering is it to be able to just be like, I am here cheering other people on because I know it doesn't detract from me. And, you know, something that I always try to do is just support and champion my friends as much as possible and the people around me, because it— I do think it comes back to you.

People never tear down people below them, is the, is the truth. I mean, like, Steve, funnily enough— I don't know Steve, I've got a lot of mutual friends— but he ran a similar business to me when we were younger. So from like 21 through 29, we basically ran the same business. They were similar size businesses. His was 10 times more famous at that age. I was incredibly envious. Yeah, of course I was. Like, this guy was younger than me, doing the same thing as me, and kicking my ass the whole time. And I worked honestly like a dog for 10 years, and he was absolutely killing me. And it took a lot of, I think, self-reflection on my part to be like, I actually am quite proud of him as a stranger for what he's accomplished for himself. Yeah, but everything you read, people just tear him down nonstop. And it's because he's such an outlier. Yeah, because he's so successful. And especially in like a microcosm, the old world that him and I used to be in, like the marketing agency world, everyone hated him.

Yeah.

And it's because he did what everyone wanted to do. It wasn't, it wasn't that he did something specifically wrong. They just didn't like his success.

I mean, I think that what we have to remember is that envy is a sign of what needs healing within you or what you still want. And so we can use that, we can use envy to show us those two things, and then we can transform it into inspiration. And we can start to look at people who we perceive as, you know, above us and being— allow them to show us what's possible, um, and, and learn from them as well.

That's so true. I would definitely say that that dude has laid the path for so many entrepreneurs to become like have public voices, which I think is so important. Like, yeah, how cool would it be— like, how cool would it have been if I'd been 21 looking for business advice and there'd been all these amazing podcasts? Yeah, these things didn't exist back then.

Yeah, yeah.

And like, he's definitely like blazed for so many people. So for the cynics, what is the science behind manifestation?

So part of it is neuroscience. So the neuroscience is that when we regularly visually rehearse something, or when we do visual rehearsal a lot, We prime the subconscious parts of our brains to, to, to reach that goal by filtering out unwanted information and seeking out opportunities that are aligned with those goals. And so because the subconscious parts of our brain accounts for 95% of our brain's activity, we can actually, we can essentially just get our subconscious to do the work for us. Mm-hmm. So the way I see it is that if I was thinking a lot about a particular job I wanted or a particular, Okay. Perhaps, you know, I know you've got a lot of entrepreneurs listening. So imagine that there's a role that you're, that you need to fill and you're thinking about it a lot and you're focused on it and you've written down the kind of person that you want to fill that role and the kind of person that the exact title and whatever it is, your subconscious will start working to find that for you. So it might actually see a random profile on Instagram or LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. And it will notice that they're doing the role and you would've missed that otherwise. Or an email might come through the contact inbox. And when you would've previously just missed it and skimmed it and deleted it, actually because you've been, you know, paying attention to it, you notice it and actually you're like, oh, that's just what we've been looking for. So that's part of it. And then the other part is that, you know, everything in the universe is made up of energy. And the only thing that differentiates us from the sky above us is the frequency and the density of the vibration of the atoms. And so you have things that have high vibrational frequencies, and then you have things that have low vibrational frequencies. And different thoughts and emotions have different frequencies. Now that is quantum physics, but what isn't actual science is the law of attraction. So the law of attraction is more of a like pseudoscience. But I would say that anecdotally we can, we can confidently say that we know it to be true. So the law of attraction says that like attracts like. So if you are operating at a high vibrational frequency, then you will attract things that match that frequency back to you. But if you're operating at a low vibrational frequency, you'll attract things that match that frequency back to you. Now, as I said, anecdotally, we know this to be true. When you wake up in a bad mood, you're full of anger, shame, regret, guilt, fear, Those seem to be the days that you miss your train, you forget your phone at home, a bill comes through the door, someone really pisses you off at work. Whereas on those days where you are full of gratitude, love, contentment, peace, aren't those the days that you drive to work and all the traffic lights are green, or a job offer comes through, or your client confirms your fee? And the more that I do this work, the more I have full faith that my vibration really does matter. And I think my team see this all the time. If I am high vibe, I'm telling you, those offers are coming through.

Yeah.

The minute I'm low vibe, things, I don't know what it is. Like that for me is like the bit I can't explain. Like I don't really know how this happens, but I just know that it does. That when I'm high vibe and when I'm low vibe, The results change dramatically.

So how does someone push themselves into a high vibe moment? Because I feel a day can get you down, a week can get you down, a month can get you down. I feel like I've always been quite good at picking myself up.

Yeah.

When I'm in a bad mood. But I would say that without knowing they were called positive affirmations, would say actually have always been someone that's done that.

Yeah.

So how does someone pick themselves up if they're feeling particularly low?

Develop an incredible gratitude practice. So gratitude is one of the highest vibrational frequencies, and there is countless scientific research on the positive effects of gratitude on depression, sleep, anxiety, even our immune system. The gratitude is just an incredible, incredible practice. But from a manifesting point of view, when we are in a state of gratitude and a feeling of appreciation, I believe that we attract more abundance back to us. There is a great quote which says, "A grateful heart is a magnet for miracles." But more than that, gratitude helps us to see, you know, I said before, manifesting is not just about reaching goals. It is about making the life that you already have feel as good as possible. And you do this with gratitude. So I developed this gratitude practice called a Positivity Journal, where every night before bed, you chronologically write down all the good things that happen. And what you are looking for is the small moments of joy. You know, the coffee that tasted amazing, a good conversation from a colleague, the sun was shining of, you know, get making it to the gym. Mm-hmm. All these little moments of joy. And what you realize is that even if you have a bad hour or a bad result of something or a bad moment, there were lots of good moments that surrounded that. And it allows you to totally reprogram the way that you see the world. It changes where your attention goes, and this helps you to feel so much better even in times of, you know, hardship and, you know, challenges and obstacles. And it really is about retraining your brain to just think differently. And I do this as a team at work. So every Friday we write a list of all the good things that happen that week, and it is incredible. Because you, I mean, especially as a, as an entrepreneur, things move so quickly. You're often missing all the kind of good moments. And if one stressful day of the week, you're like, oh my God, this was such a stressful week. And actually, oh my God, you made so much progress.

Yeah.

That you can't even, you've forgotten about. And so having this weekly gratitude practice as a team, it's so amazing for morale. It shows you all these like little steps that you're taking to work towards your goals. It makes you feel so much more motivated and excited and I think it's also important to notice, to note that, you know, to me being positive isn't feeling good every day. It's knowing that even on the dark days, better days are coming.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think it's, it's really about not trying to avoid discomfort and avoid challenges because we do, we need them for growth and we need them to appreciate the good times. But it's about having that faith that, you know, this too shall pass.

So for someone who is doing the right things, like, how do they maintain that belief when they don't get success quickly? I feel like social media plays a part in it, in that people want gratification and success so fast, and the expectation is that you will start a business or, or whatever it might be, or, you know, you'll launch something and immediately overnight you'll be a millionaire.

Yeah, yeah.

But how does someone, you know, maintain the belief that this is working when it's not immediate? Like how fast does manifestation happen?

Well, I think that part of it is being able to track your progress really clearly so that even if it's small steps, you really recognize that you are making steps forward. I think part of it is about recognizing the importance of enjoying the journey. Someone, um, really early on in my career said this to me. They were like, enjoy this bit. It's the best bit. Mm-hmm. The first article, the first interview, the first win. Yeah. And I actually really took that on board and it was the best advice because, you know, there is this thing called habituation, right? Which is where our brains become desensitized to stimuli.

Mm-hmm.

And so when we, the more you go on a journey, like now, you know, before, let's say I got asked to, you know, go on, I remember when I was first asked to go on This Morning, right? Oh my God.

Yeah.

The biggest thing. Ever, like, couldn't believe it, ecstatic, dream come true. The fifth time or the fourth time I was on This Morning, not that it wasn't such an honour and so incredible, but I wouldn't— it doesn't have that same elation and high. And that's just natural. That's just the way that our brains work. And it's kind of a sad truth because you would want to be able to have that same high all the time, forever. But it just doesn't because our brains don't work that way. And so it's so important to actually enjoy those like first milestones and be able to know that you don't get these first times twice. Mm-hmm. And so it's okay if you kind of like drag them out a bit and you're not getting them all straight away. Like enjoy the kind of the, enjoy the journey and enjoy the kind of beginning, but enjoy the hustle.

Mm-hmm.

Like it is fun. If you're doing something that you love. And the setbacks, I mean, I would always just love listening to other entrepreneurs and listening to their struggles and how long it took them. And listening to those stories, I found very inspiring because if something wasn't happening straight away, or like you said, you know, you've made a start and it's not what you want it to be as soon as you want it, it's, it's reassuring to hear other people's stories and know that, okay, it didn't happen quickly for most people.

My old business partner from my first business, when we were— we started at 21 on Brick Lane, and 21 through 25, 26 was like chaos. I mean, we were, we were out most nights as well, but also we were working with like top global brands in the day. We would like turn up having not slept.

Oh my God.

Do you like, you know, mass— I actually, I'd never told the story before. I remember the— I'm even gonna say the restaurant name, Aqua restaurants are these, you know, big restaurants around the world. And we were asked to do a final pitch for them. And Ben and I had gone out the night before so late that we'd gone round and we were turning up to the pitch having not slept. Like 5, 6 people in the room, super serious, all the founders and everything. We are both out of our heads. We always, we were so pissed in the morning that we did the presentation. Neither of us can remember it. We won, we won the job. That's the sort of people we were at that age. And I was always, um, and I, I sort of slightly regret for it and therefore try and live in the moment so much these days. I was always like, I can't wait till we've made it. And he always said to me, these would be the times we look back at as the greatest times. And it's so true. Like, now I'm 34, that was quite a long time ago now. I look back at that as a time where things were not going well.

Yeah.

Everything was breaking all the time, and yet it was just so much fun.

Yeah.

And so you're right, I think sometimes you've got to appreciate that the, the come up, as it were, yeah, might not feel perfect at the time, but it's probably going to be, yeah, you know, yeah, the most fun.

Also, we know that reaching your goals doesn't make us happy. Yeah, like, we know this. We know that money and fame and success and status do not make us happy. It's really good to have goals. It's really good to feel like we have a reason to get up in the morning, to feel driven, to feel like we have a purpose, to feel like we're on a mission. That's fun. We, we want that drive. We want to feel excited by life and that we have momentum to move forward. But if we pin our happiness on reaching this goal, we're fucked.

Yeah.

Because happiness really is built on the journey. It's in appreciating the day-to-day moments, those things are just gonna be really cool when you get them. And don't—

have you, have you ever had that, like you've reached, you know, the mountaintop and then been like, wow, that did not feel like I thought it was gonna feel?

Do you know, personally, no, because I think I came from such a dark place that for me, just to be able to wake up in the morning and not hate myself feels so incredible that I'm— I genuinely have so much gratitude just for that. And for years now, I mean, look, I had loads— when I started my career, I had tons of big goals. I was like, oh my God, like Sunday Times for me at that time. I mean, I've never written a book, nothing. And I was like, Sunday Times bestseller, American TV, you know, all these things, all these goals I wanted to achieve. And When I achieved them, they were great. But after that point, and this has been probably for the last 3 years when people have been, or the last 2 years when people have been saying to me, you know, what's next? What's your goals? What's on your vision board? I'm like, oh, just more of the same. Like, yeah, I'm fucking loving life. Like, I love what I do. I don't feel like I need more, more, more to satisfy me. Like, life is great. If I could just keep moving forward, I'm happy with that. And I think that is because I've genuinely embodied, I don't want to be going backwards and I don't want to be stagnant. I want to move forward, but I don't feel like I need a ton more because I actually just trust that abundance is coming anyway. And because I embody this real gratitude for life's day to day.

I also feel like you, myself, everyone will have like different seasons of their lives that, you know, one year you might work your hardest you've ever worked, and the year afterwards you might not, and that's fine as well. And I would always say, like, last year I just did not work hard.

I love this for you.

Just, just not at all.

Yeah, but you, after 10 years, like, you needed that.

Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely was just playing sport all the time, not really working. And then this year has been radically different.

Yeah.

You know, I set new goals at the beginning of the year. I sort of thought to myself, I have had a year off of relative quiet and peace.

Yeah.

Um, now I can pursue some new goals, so I think it's fine. But I suppose for people at the beginning of their journey who are thinking about, you know, step one, like, how does someone put a vision board together? Like, I saw that you talked about your vision board more like a bullet point board, not a mood board, which I loved because I was like, I did love the specificity of that.

Yeah, yeah. Grace Beverley actually gave it the term bullet board, but what I— from what I had been explaining, which I've kind of talked about for years, which is that we're making a vision board. It shouldn't be just lots of pretty pictures. That is a mood board. It's just an inspiration board. A vision board should have very, very clear goals and clear things that you want to reach and, and be clearly defined. I mean, for me, my vision board has no pictures. It's just bullet points, um, of everything that I want. And I categorize my vision board, so I'm not focusing too much on just one area of my life. So I'll have career, personal development, love and romance, family, and then maybe other— I'll put like travel and places I want to go. So yeah, I think having a vision board at the beginning is, is an amazing thing to do.

How can fear and self-doubt stop manifestation? Like, how can people remove the barriers of fear from their lives?

Um, I think that is all to do with that sort of healing journey that we spoke about. That's about recognizing where your self-doubts are coming from, what are those limiting beliefs, and how can I change them? So the 8 Steps of Confidence is a big part of that. I think it's also about if you have the resources to find external help to understand yourself better through therapy, group therapy, counseling, journaling, hypnotherapist, Reiki, whatever it is, but going on a journey to understand what are those blocks, um, and insecurities that are currently holding you back and how can you begin to change them.

And for a lot of people who are maybe at the beginning of their journey or they want to achieve something new, they often will ask like, how do you find your purpose? Like, how do you find the why? I think it's a brilliant question, but if someone was to ask you that, what, what would you tell them as practical actionable steps that they could take to, to try and find that?

I find this a tough question actually, and Jay Shetty answered it best on— oh, he came on my podcast and he gave a really great answer to it. I can't remember But Simon Scribb also gave me a great answer, which I loved. And he spoke about finding what your pain point has been, like what has caused you pain and how can you use that pain to drive you to helping others. And I thought that was such a beautiful definition and starting place for so many people who are lost because it's definitely where I found my purpose. It was through my own pain and he— in starting my own healing journey that I realized that's what I wanted to do for others. But I think that, you know, I don't think people should rush to try and find their purpose. Mm-hmm. Because how do you just force yourself into finding it? I think you just need to be open to it and exploring and being aware of what energizes you or makes you feel happy, what makes you feel of value, what makes you feel fulfilled, and figure out how you can then make a career from that.

Yeah, I, I, I, I agree. And I was speaking to Simon about it recently. And I think what we came to the conclusion is that if someone doesn't know their why and their purpose, I think that's totally fine.

Yeah.

And I think it's very rare that someone actually fully understands their why and their purpose, and it can change. But if people are looking for it, I think action will often reveal the thing that you care most about.

Yeah.

And so if you can get yourself into a, as you would say, like high vibe— yeah, yeah, um, you know, mentality and place in your life where you're doing a lot of things, you're giving off the right energy. Yeah, you will find the thing.

Definitely.

It will just arrive for you. Agreed. You said this before, and I would actually agree. For me, I had completely lost my why and purpose, and that's probably why I had a year off. Um, but then it came to me in like, I just love helping other entrepreneurs get over blockers, things that I've dealt with in my life. And I never thought I would get so much satisfaction from being like 'Oh yeah, look at them go.' Yeah. And it's just become like an apparent feeling now.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah. Which I— if you'd asked me a few years ago, would I advise and support entrepreneurs in growing, I would have been like, 'No way, definitely not.' Fuck him.

Yeah, you're on your own.

It's probably because I hadn't worked out yet.

You know, one more thing I wanted to say on purpose is that for a lot of people, I think it's really easy to think having a purpose has to be they might think it has to be about helping others really of like directly like self-help or consultancy or something where you feel like it's really clear. I am of the belief that everybody who is doing any job is doing something purposeful. And I think that I'm really lucky I write self-help books. So people message me. And so I, I know what my purpose is, right? But for a lot of people, they, they won't. So, but if you are working in insurance, if you are a barista, if you are a salesperson, you are still helping serve someone else's needs. And I think it's really important to remind ourselves or reconnect with what our purpose is within what we're already doing. So you might be feeling unfulfilled in a current job, but it might be just because you've forgotten who you're helping on the other side because you don't have that direct contact like you do if you're in a different kind of career like me or you. And so actually, before you think you wanna throw everything away and change it, maybe just reconnect with what the purpose is.

Mm-hmm. The spiciest step I think you have, as in the one that stood out to me as something I definitely dealt with in my life and I think a lot of people deal with and won't want to admit to it, is about envy.

Yeah.

And so you say people should turn envy into inspiration.

Mm-hmm.

So Thinking of someone who is very envious, and I think a lot of people suffer from envy, how does someone practically go from being an envious person to finding inspiration in that thing?

Yeah, so it's firstly we have to have like radical acceptance of our emotion and not try to deny it. So people often feel a lot of shame around feeling envious, especially if it's around someone maybe that they're close to or a friend. And so what happens is if we don't allow ourselves to admit that we're feeling envious, we pass it on as judgment. So a confident person walks in the room and instead of being honest about ourselves, we say, oh God, they're so big-headed.

Mm-hmm.

They're so up themselves. Right. Or we see someone on Instagram posting a reel of them talking to camera and we're like, oh my God, they're so cringe.

Yeah.

They don't know what they're talking about. But actually, is it that we are envious of that person's ability to be unapologetically themselves and to show up? And so the first thing we need to do is own our envy and make sure that we are not passing it as judgment. And if you are passing judgment on someone, always ask yourself, is there a, is the emotion of envy driving this? And then we can start to bring compassion to ourselves. So, okay, I am having this emotion. It is normal. Like, look at kids. They are so jealous of each other. Yeah. Like, should they do not want to share toys? You know, when Wolf, like my son, if I hug my niece, he will come right up to me and be like, mummy, do you love her more than me? Like, you know, it's a natural emotion. We're born with it. So own it and then allow it to show you and guide you. And I know we discussed this earlier, but guide you to what needs healing or what you want more of in your life. And then you simply reframe the thought. So instead of kind of, let's say you see someone on Instagram on holiday, instead of thinking, oh my God, I can't believe that, do they even have a job? Like, what the fuck are they doing on holiday again? Instead you go 'Wow, that's really reminded me that, God, I'm in need of a break. I'm going to add that hotel to my vision board. I'm going to book some travel, even if it's 6 months, 1 year from now.' So it's about always being able to reframe that thought from an envious thought to an inspired thought. And then if you want to take it a step further, you celebrate other people.

It's funny as well, on the topic of envy and manifestation, I feel like people who are open about their goals, you know, like maybe at the beginning of the year you share what you're going to achieve that year, are often met with envy and disdain and being torn down, which I find such a bizarre trend. I think when I was younger and I started telling my friends my New Year's resolutions, they were met— it was met with such negativity that for years and years I just kept it to myself. Yeah, we almost don't like people trying to step out of the norm?

There's nothing more triggering than confidence. And I think it's because it's the thing that most of us lack. Like we so universally, we really are in like a confidence crisis. Like we so lack self-worth. And because we're constantly exposed to what everyone else is doing, like social media isn't a fair fight anymore. Because we see everyone else's success whilst knowing all of our own like troubles and insecurities. Yeah. And so it's completely unbalanced. And so we're in this confidence crisis and so we're constantly, it, it, so it becomes triggering, you know, you don't wanna see someone who's confidently putting down their 5-year goals.

Yeah.

Because you're like, well, I wanna feel confident enough to put down my 5-year goal. And so I think it's, um, it is acknowledging that there is there is a crisis going on.

I definitely think that's played into probably some of the cynicism towards manifestation.

Yeah.

Is that people think it's like super woo-woo.

Yeah.

But you— I saw you on an interview say that you're talking about manifestation as an umbrella for effectively really good pattern recognition and behaviours and goal setting and discipline. And it's just because of the umbrella term.

Yeah.

Everyone seems to tear it down, but yeah. Goal setting is like the oldest, most proven thing ever.

Literally.

Yeah.

It's, and it's, you know, you can't, like, you need goals. It's not even, I mean, you just need goals to feel good. Like, what is life if you don't know where you're headed or you don't know what direction you want to take? It can feel, that's why you can get stuck in those ruts where you feel like you're not moving, you're not going anywhere. It's for our mental health. It's so damaging to not just figure out what we want and go for it.

And so people can effectively negatively manifest. They can, they can pursue the wrong things, which leads to the wrong actions and outcomes, and that can spiral.

I think so, yeah. I think, I think we can keep ourselves trapped based on our limiting beliefs and insecurities. Yeah.

I think one of the things I've never really seen you talk about is the fact that while you are an incredible author and you're, you've got an amazing, you know, public presence, you are fundamentally a business person who runs a business and are out and out an incredible entrepreneur. And I don't really see that spoken about a huge amount. Whereas I think for context for everyone watching, to write a book that does as well as your book does, like I've had a lot of authors on here recently, a lot of them have done very well, nowhere near as successful as you.

Oh, thank you.

Um, and so how do you think now about your business? Because I, in researching, you saw that originally you did like events that people could come to.

Yeah.

Before COVID Yeah. And so can you talk us through the evolution of the actual business behind it all?

Yeah. So it started basically while I was pregnant with Wolf. I was, it was a very dark time, but I was doing, I was reading constantly, reading all different self-development, researching, just I wasn't at that point, I was understanding manifestation as like you said, this umbrella of self-development. But I was, there was no consideration that I would make a, write a book on manifesting at this point.

Yep.

But I would watch, I watched Brené Brown's Call to Courage and I was a big fan of Tony Robbins and I was really inspired by the way that they would step on stage and inspire people. And what I loved was that you could hear someone say one thing on stage and it could change the whole direction of your life. And I thought, I wanna do that.

Yeah.

And at the same time, while I was pregnant, I had this thing called Agony Aunt Sundays, which on my Instagram, which was really small at the time, people would write in their dilemmas on a Sunday and I would give them advice. And when I was pregnant and I was in a very, very, very bad place, this gave me this string of purpose and hope that kept me, literally kept me going for this 10 months. And so I realised that when I was helping other people, I was outside of my own pain and this was what I was supposed to be doing. And so when I had Wolf, I was like, I'm going to turn my life around. And when he was 5 months old, I was like, I'm going to host my first workshop. I'm just going to do it. And I was like, fuck it. So I just put like a little thing on Instagram being like, for context, you had a big Instagram. I had about 20,000 followers just from being— from being like a party girl. Yeah, from being like— from nothing.

Is that how being a party girl gets you 20K followers?

No, but you know, I started on Instagram right at the beginning.

Okay.

And I had lots of friends that were on Made in Chelsea and might tag me, and then I'd get— you'd get loads of followers. So it was very different.

Fine.

So I don't really know how, but it was— I wasn't doing anything. I was just partying and moving in circles, I suppose, that would get me followers, and people weren't really using it at the time. So I put this thing on Instagram, and I had been very honest, by the way, on my Instagram. Something I have found real power in is vulnerability, and I had no fear about sharing my struggles and my journey, and I was not preaching to anyone. I was just sharing where I was at and what had helped me. So I put this thing on Instagram. I was like, I'm gonna I want to do a workshop on self-love. Who wants to come? And people showed some interest. So I found an old church in Earl's Court. It was 200 quid to rent for the day.

Wow.

I got a balloon company to do little balloons and affirmations on them. And a friend of mine started a drinks brand, so she had these drinks on there for us. And another friend of mine made these little bracelets, so she made bracelets for every chair. And I went and bought little clipboards and printed this, like, the workshop things and put them on, on, on everything. And honestly, it was so cute. And it was— and when I got on stage—

and you were charging people to come?

Yeah, so I was charging people. I think it was like £40 a ticket.

Amazing.

And it sold out to 100 people, which I was like, oh my God.

And you've never done anything like that?

I'd never done anything. And but I was always like a confident speaker.

Yeah.

Like, I would say— I mean, I don't know how I know, I've never done public speaking, but like, I could give a speech at my birthday parties, for example. And I was confident in that. I was also high at the time. But when I went on stage, there was no backstage. There was just a curtain. So Wade was with me at the time. Wade got on stage and introduces me in his tracksuit bottoms and beanie. And then he's— and I was sat behind this curtain just waiting for it to fill in. So I must have been there like an hour. And then I sat behind this curtain, which was like tiny. And then I went on stage, Wade went back behind the curtain, and every time I wanted music, I, I'd like nod to him and he'd press play on the iPhone. And I had my whole script in front of me. Yeah. So I like kept looking down every 2 seconds. My legs were like jelly, but I did it and it went pretty well and people responded well. And I was like, wow. Oh, I think this is what I'm supposed to be doing. So then that was in November, the, that was on November 16th, 2019. It was on my mom's birthday. And then in January of that year, I was like, I'm going to do another one. And I said to people on Instagram, I've been doing this thing using manifestation. Yeah, should I do a workshop on it? At this point, people don't know what manifestation is.

It's like pre-the—

it's pre— it's like big moment. And when I— when people either didn't know what it was, or if they did, they had very limited understanding of what it was, or just thought it was the law of attraction. I was like, right, how do I explain manifesting to people? And I, within 5 minutes, had my 7-step guide to manifesting for the book. Yeah, that was it. It was like, it just— I just knew it. And I wrote it down in the notes on my phone, wrote a workshop for it. Really didn't know how people were going to respond. And again, 100 people came, and it like—

in the church?

In the church, same church. Oh my God, really resonated. And I was like, Oh my God, people love— I was like, this does work. Then I did my third one on relationships and I was like, oh my God, I can't wait. We got— I got someone to do pizza.

Yeah.

30 people came and I was like, oh yeah, okay. And I was like, okay. So I was kind of trying out, it didn't work. Then lockdown hit. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna do webinars. And what happened in lockdown was it started as 150 people came to a webinar. Which was before I knew what Zoom was, and I used another thing and the video stopped working and I had to do audio only. And then I actually started doing all my webinars audio only because I was actually so self-conscious at the time.

Wow.

So every month I did a different workshop. So manifesting, self-love, I did body and mind, um, and I did a careers one as well, but more about like helping people start small businesses.

What sort of Volume of people are we talking about?

So we started at 150 in March 2020, and the following January 2021, I had 1,500 on a call. Yeah, on a Zoom.

Wow.

And that was all word of mouth. So I've never, I'd never, I still have never done paid ads or any type of promotion for any event. And that was in January 2021, and But I was like a machine in lockdown. Like I was making like on fucking Canva nonstop, making like a zillion different posters. One thing I figured out really early was I was like, people habituate to things that they see. So I'd always make a different style poster. So I'd do like 6 different ways of promoting something 'cause I didn't want anyone to get used to seeing something and not interact with it. I was really like, I'd share people's comments and DMs to show people that like other people did enjoy it.

And I was predominantly through Instagram, all Instagram.

I didn't— wasn't using any other platforms, just Instagram stories really. And then I was like, I'm going to write the book now. So I wrote the book. January 3rd it comes out. Within 48 hours there was not a single copy available in the country. We sold out every copy in the country.

But did you— was your audience big? Like I said it was 20,000 when you started.

It was 20,000. It had grown to 70,000 when the book came out, which is still relatively small for an author. For, um, it's still relatively small for like a, an author, a first-time author.

Yeah.

Um, but it just caught fire. I think part of it was timing, like people coming out of lockdown, they wanted hope, they wanted something which gave them like a guide. I think that The COVID of the book was very, very, very intentional. And I mean, I couldn't have timed it better that orange became the color of the season. Every store you would go in, Zara, Topshop, like whatever it was, orange everywhere. Like when has orange ever been a color? So it was a culmination of loads of things, but I had also created a really incredible community who were my— Like those webinars, there was incredible interaction, friends being made. I would DM every single person that DM'd me. I would DM back. I would not miss a message for years.

I suspect that's why you were very successful rather than Orange.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, you're right, maybe.

I know so much about this space. I've helped hundreds of people launch businesses and books and whatever, and that is amazing that a book could do so well with proportionately quite a small audience.

Yeah.

And I'm just trying to think why it hit so big, but it must have been the fact that every great book is basically driven by someone reading it and then telling two people about it.

Yeah.

It's not the pre-launch. I mean, I know a lot of people who could do good pre-launch numbers and then fizzle out.

Yeah.

But your book has done that.

Yeah, yeah. It, it has gone up and up. I think it was 3 weeks after the— no, a year after the book came out in 2023, 3, I sold 2,000 tickets at Alexandra Palace without promotion. Now, only looking, looking— I don't think I could do that now.

I'm like, I think you could do that.

I'm like, how? I think I was so in it and like, yeah, machine. Yeah. And I remember seeing Vishen from Mindvalley and he's like, sorry, if you— with no ads. And I even am shocked that I did that. Um, but you know, I think there is I think it's a lot of things, and I think it's manifestation.

Yeah, I mean, absolutely, very intentional. But how did you learn about branding, personal branding, marketing, design, like the driving people to an event? Like, what are you like? Who are your inspirations? Where are you learning that from?

Do you know, I just don't fucking know. I think it is part of it is my dad was a really, really successful businessman, but a very humble man. Very, very humble. Like, you know, died, God bless him, with his like tacky watch and his Primark shorts and never heard of a designer in his life. Like, very frugal, very tight. Did not, you know, really did not give us money. Like, it was, it was, yeah, we were not treated like we had a successful dad, but he was, he was a business. He was talking to me about his laws of business from when I was 5 years old. Yeah, you know, and, oh, I used to think he was so boring. Oh my God, I did not think you were gonna say that. No. Yeah, we used to literally just like, it would be like, right, once he— for a man of few words, once you start talking about business and quantum physics, he would go. And you— luckily my dad was, you know, he didn't have emotions the same way as someone else, so you could literally just be like, Dad, I'm off, and he would take no offense. Yeah, I was like, I can't. But clearly he did get in there. Yeah. And You know, recently I just did something called Phantom Equity Shares for my team. Mm-hmm.

I was gonna ask you about that.

So we'll talk about it in a second. But my sister commented and goes, that's Dad's famous line, gain, train, retain.

Right.

Gain, train, retain. He'd just say it to us all the time to like gain your employees, train them up, and make sure you retain them.

My God.

And I obviously all of this stuff must have just gone in.

Yeah.

And I think maybe he just instilled it in me. I think he was very proud of me when he died, and that was a really amazing thing.

When you think about the business now, is it what you thought it would be? You know, like, you're doing events, you're now investing. Like, what's the core of the business now when you're looking forward?

I suppose we— I've really got such a diverse business, which I love. Um, I think it makes it more enjoyable. Um, I think it makes it less risky. I think there's events, books, products, meditations, brand partnerships, corporate talks. I mean, there's— it's a full business, but it's a business that has a lot of integrity. And I think that makes me feel good about it because I don't work on things that isn't genuinely fulfilling my mission and my purpose. And it's not the most important thing to me. You know, I think making money is a fantastic byproduct of doing something that I love. And I think that the way I see making money is that it allows me to help. It's so funny, this is why I love Simon Scribb so much, because he is so aligned with this, is like, it helps me to help the other people around me as well. It's not— I'm not here to like sit on a, you know, what's, what's that, what's the point in that? I want to spread abundance as much as I can.

And so now you have your own team, and so now you are a boss.

Yeah.

How do you feel about being a boss and actually like having responsibility for people?

I think it has been a real journey actually finding the right team, and I think that one of my downfalls, I think, early on was I did everything myself with just one assistant, and really only up until like mid-2023, so for a long time. It was just me and one really young assistant. Yeah, a machine. And I, I really did burn myself out and make myself quite ill from that. And I found it really hard to let other people, like, do their job without wanting to micromanage every email, every single thing. And it took me actually learning that for people to grow into the best they can within my team, I need to let them realize that they can do it themselves to boost their confidence. And, and it's only in me letting go that will they actually be the best versions of themselves they can be. And I think I did, I had a few different people come and go, like 3 or 4 people came and went in the space of a couple of years. And then I found a team that were just fucking dynamite. Like, love their job, like genuine passion, really competent, really good at what they do. And I was like, I have to keep them, and I want them to feel as valuable as they are. And I really try and give a lot of, um, like, I really want them to feel as important as they are to me.

And I saw in, uh, in your conversation with Simon, that you talked about giving— one of his things that he talks about a lot is giving equity to the team, which him and I always laugh about because small business owners tend to say this bizarre phrase, which is like, my team are not as good as me and they don't work as hard as me. And it's like, well, yeah, they don't own the equity, so why would they?

Exactly.

Um, and so you then came up with your own way of effectively, you know, giving back to your team, which was phantom shares. So for anyone watching, can you explain how that works?

Yeah. So I didn't feel when Simon said that about giving equity, I was like, oh, I, I didn't think it made sense to me 'cause I don't think I'm a company that would necessarily sell. Like, because I, the company is great for me. So I went on ChatGPT and researched like how else could I give, could they benefit from the profits of the business? And it came up with one of the results was phantom profit shares. And so what this means is that at the end of each year, each employee based on— will get a certain percentage based on their current salary of profit. And after a certain amount of time, and I could decide how much time that was, they'd get one payout, which was the accumulation of those years. So I chose 3 years because I wanted to reward both loyalty and efforts. And within 2 weeks of having that conversation with Simon, it was action. They had their letters at the Christmas party and it was done.

Incredible.

Hang about. And, you know, I think I did it because these are 3 girls that I trusted, already loved the job and wanted to be there, and, and which are just amazing. And I don't— it doesn't feel even right to me. I can't— they see everything that comes through this business. It doesn't feel right to me to be like, oh, here's all this, you know, we're gonna make this much money all for me. Like, that doesn't, that doesn't sit right with me. Like, I'm not doing it on my own. I couldn't do it without them.

So It's a good lesson though. I mean, the— when you build a team and then you build a bigger team and a bigger team and a bigger team, it becomes very hard for the team to realize that they're pursuing this mission that's not their mission. And so, you know, I remember when we had our first company, when we sold our first company, everyone in the company had equity. And so everyone gets a payout as part of that journey, right? And so like your most junior staff member through to your senior one. But you're right, a lot of businesses aren't gonna be sold.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think something like, you know, phantom equity or phantom profit or whatever it's called, is an unbelievable way of rewarding hard work and loyalty for a team that are building you.

Yeah.

You know, they're on the mission with you, which I think your mission is incredible and you know, it's impacting so many people. So it must be a fun place to work.

Oh yeah. Um, we do have fun.

And so I suppose now you own a very successful business. You've had an unbelievable book. You've had, you have more projects coming out. Have you personally dealt with imposter syndrome?

No, no, no, no. I am doing what I'm meant to be doing, and I'm not meant to be a finished product. Yeah, like, there's no— I'm just— I'm fucking winging it. Like, I'm really proud of what I've done. I didn't have training on how to run a business or how to— so I'm re— I feel proud, and I don't— I tell everybody I kind of practice what I preach, and you're not supposed to know all the answers and be the best as long as you're committed to learning. I haven't always been the best boss, like, I was, or the best in business, you know. My downfall, and one of the things I really got wrong the first year or two, I was so burnt out that I was so irritable, and I was, I could quite easily, you know, respond because I was so wanted everything to be just right. I could respond really just not— I was never rude, but I was definitely emotionally charged.

Yeah.

At times when I definitely couldn't have— I shouldn't have been. And I think that that was a real learning point for me. I had to understand how to manage my emotions better, how not to get over— to, to get so stressed about little things going wrong. I had to learn. And as long as I was committed to owning where I could do better, and that's all right, I don't think You need to— I think imposter syndrome is natural, but when you take the pressure off and you realize that we're all learning, and as long as you're committed to learning, then that's the best you can do, then makes it a lot easier.

Very honest of you as well. I think a lot of people will try and say that they were a great boss forever.

Yeah.

And obviously, like, you know, with my content and, you know, my friend Ben's content, a lot of it covers good and bad bosses and so forth. And people will often ask us, were we good bosses at the start? And the answer is like 100% no.

Yeah.

I used to do my one-on-ones in the pub. So on a Friday afternoon— this is very true of the people who worked for us at the time. It was funny because we were all drunk all the time, but it, like, never malicious. But if you start the one-on-ones at, yeah, you know, 1 o'clock on a Friday and you have 6 of them and you have a drink with everyone, yeah, by the time you get to your last one, you're basically on a night out. You're just, you're just with a team member having a conversation. Yeah, but no one teaches you this stuff. No, no one at, you know, a young age before you start a business is telling you. I mean, that one you could probably guess that.

Yeah, I guess it's— I think being— managing people is probably one of the, like, biggest lessons I've had to learn. I think the other stuff comes quite instinctively to me, but this is where I had to really learn how to get the best out of people, how to relinquish control, and also how to cope when someone leaves. I remember the first time someone left and she was like a superstar. My, we never had a bad day. She like, I would say that the business was as much hers as mine. I like blow smoke up her ass every day. Like, and she was brilliant. She was brilliant. And when she told me she was leaving 'cause she wanted to essentially just like go freelance and start a family, which is fair. I was like, what's wrong with me? Yeah. It brought up all my abandonment issues. Yeah. And I felt like I'd been dumped. And it really hurt. And actually it was fine because I had 2 weeks of like processing and then we ended on the best note and we're still friends now. And she's amazing. And like, I, it took me a moment, but it was hard. And that, but that was such an amazing thing for me because I was like, I can't take things personally. And like, you do have to have some degree of separation of being a boss and a friend. So recognize where the line is. And so it did change the way I approached being a boss after that in, in the best way.

I think all entrepreneurs can remember their first employee leaving them and how they reacted to it.

What was yours?

I just couldn't believe that they would leave.

Yeah, this is so great to work here.

Yeah, I mean, it really wasn't, you know, it truthfully, you know, Verb became a great— Verb became, you know, leading luxury agency, top brands. But at that point, I mean, it was like 6 people sitting in a room and in Shoreditch without windows. So I don't know why I was surprised. Um, but yeah, I mean, everyone remembers that as a, a challenge. And I think, you know, as you become more experienced, you realize that the only real lever you have in the business is to have great and motivated team members.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's all you have.

Yeah.

You have nothing else outside that really.

Yeah.

And I've seen now that you are actively investing. And so how does someone who, you know, has a public profile like you, who obviously now has money, do you invest in both ways? Do you invest with both?

Yeah.

Awareness and cash? Like, how do you think about a great investment now?

Yeah, for me it is both. So financial investment and as a strategic investor where I can also be sort of an ambassador and give my advice as best I can. Um, I don't think of my investing as, for me personally, I'm not like on this mission to like, I gotta hope this company sells for $100 million and I get my cut. I just really, really enjoy watching businesses grow. I love— like, my favorite thing is giving my friends and people around me business advice. It is my favorite. Like, if I can guide people on like how to sell themselves, clients, how to set their prices for people, like, I just get so much passion. I think when I'm 50 I'm going to set up my own management agency. Yeah, like I just have such a passion for, for like small businesses and watching businesses grow and all the different ways that you might not know that you could do that now. I'm too busy now. Um, but I, so I really, really love, um, love doing that. So I just wanted to find, with both of these brands, with Dirty, Andrew and Simon were great friends of mine and I saw what they were doing. It's a functional mushroom brand that they're kind of a leading the way in the functional mushroom movement. So they're making— giving you the power of mushrooms, but in ways that are really easy for us to take every day. So like delicious gummies, teas, coffees, matcha. It's, it's just a great brand. And they really were leading that movement. And I saw their passion as founders, like they are so driven and so incredible. And I really believe in them and their mission. And with Quarter Proof, I actually just discovered the brand shopping on Zapp. It was Quarter Proof is quarter strength alcohol or mid-strength alcohol. So your favorite spirits, but mid-strength. So what I would do, I, I'm not, I'm not completely sober, but I hate getting drunk. So I love a cocktail.

Yeah.

And so what I realized, I was like, oh my God, this is incredible because I can make myself my margarita at home. Or, you know, my watermelon martini, but I can have two and still only be having half a shot.

So what is it like, 10%?

It's 15%. So I essentially get to have all my favourite drinks without any of the negative side effects of alcohol. So I can still enjoy the ritual, the connection, the moment. And it's amazing. And I just, so I reached out to them on Instagram and was like, wow, I love your brand. Can I help? And they're in all Soho houses now, which is amazing. They're getting in more and more places, so it's really exciting.

And so to wrap, for people that are very skeptical, what's the one thing they should do after watching this podcast to get a sense of manifestation and whether it works for them?

Read my book.

That's it.

I challenge you. I challenge you to read that book and not change your life.

Because I would say I'm a skeptic, but I'm also a believer. And I think that the thing that you managed to do, which I don't think many other people did, was bring a framework to how to think about it. And so like a lot of the things that I would have instinctively done in my life, which I would never have called manifestation— yeah, I would have been like overtly against saying that. I'd have been like, I just work hard and I'm, you know, very good at goal setting. And I would have never done it. But when you read the steps and you actually think about it It's all encompassed in there.

Yeah.

And so I think your genius is in taking a quite complex and all-encompassing thing and simplifying it.

Well, thank you. That's very kind. Thank you so much.

Well, thank you very much for coming on Wake Up.

Ah, thank you for having me. Cheers.

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