17 Years, 75 Businesses, 1 Marriage: How We Make It Work

What parts of the last 17 years have felt overwhelming to you?

Opening a phone repair shop and me doing shifts there with the baby behind the wall. That one was pretty overwhelming. There was just questions about where the money would come from to, like, pay the bills for the next month. That's a scary feeling. It's overwhelming, but it's also exciting. You weren't gonna fail. I knew that you were always gonna provide for our family. You'll regret not doing it more than you'll regret doing it. You gotta try it. And if you really put your effort into it, I think you can.

We all know that we would really never get anywhere in our businesses without our spouse. Right? I just don't know how you could be a serial entrepreneur or a business owner without a supportive spouse. And so I wanted to do something a little different today. I invited my spouse, my wife on the Kerner office. I sat her down, I had a list of questions. I went off script a little bit, and I asked her, how did you do it? How are you doing it? How can one be such a supportive spouse? What do you do if you don't have a supportive spouse? How do you manage that? We got a little vulnerable, a little touchy feely, but I think it'll be helpful. So share it with a significant other in your life whose support you desperately need for this business that you either are already running or want to run. And let me know what you think in the comments. Tell us who you are.

I'm Jesse Kerner. I'm your wife. We've been married for, like, almost 17 years. I'm a stay at home mom. I'm a realtor. I'm a volunteer. I don't know. What else do you want to know?

When did we meet?

We met a long time ago. It was like January of 2000. We met at a funeral.

So romantic.

So romantic. We were 13 and 14 years old.

Why does this feel so awkward?

Because the cameras are there.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

So I wanted to interview you because almost everyone that listens to my podcast either has a significant other or will have a significant other that needs to support them in their entrepreneurship journey. So I want to learn a bunch of things for the first time on this interview, and I would like you to give some advice to everyone listening and or watching on how they can be a supportive spouse or significant other.

Okay.

Does that sound good?

Yeah. I'll see what I can do.

Okay, so let's do this. Why don't you explain to everyone what you think my career has been if. How would you introduce me as a professional?

Usually when people ask like, what does your husband do? It's like, oh, he's an entrepreneur. And they're like, okay, what is his business? And I was like, which one? Because there are always a lot of things going on, which is exciting. It's never boring, but sometimes it can be overwhelming and sometimes it can be scary.

Let's dig into the word overwhelming. What parts of the last 17 years have felt overwhelming to you? Any stories you could tell?

I mean, there are a few, but I feel like you've kind of outlined them. You know, when you were in China and got the phone call from a lawyer, that one was pretty overwhelming. And well, just going into the first business too, with a six month old baby, opening a phone repair shop and me doing shifts there with the baby behind the wall, like that was kind of overwhelming. Knowing that that was like what needed to pay the bills, that we needed to pay those bills for this space. And that was, that was overwhelming. Moving our family, starting our next location, like moving to Texas, like everything has just been like, okay, let's try this out, let's do this. I mean, there have been lots of times when it's like I get to be a part of it and I really enjoy that. Like with LCD cycle and going through LCDs at the kitchen table before we shipped them back to China and stuff.

Like glass all over the carpet.

Yes, glass everywhere. But it's like, it's overwhelming, but it's also exciting. There's something intoxicating about starting something new and seeing your enthusiasm and excitement and knowing that you did the research that has made it bearable.

I guess I still remember in those phone restore days we had like a pack and play behind the store. For those watching or listening, we had this 2,000 square foot store and we just put a drywall wall that just split up the front from the back. And the front was where we meet customers. We'd accept payments. In the back is where we'd have our baby. There's a bathroom back there. We'd fix phones and iPads back there.

There was like a couch and a table.

And it's kind of like when you, you go to like a local restaurant that's not a chain and you walk in and they're usually immigrants running it. And it just seems a little unorganized, chaotic. That's how our store felt. That's how our lives have felt a little bit.

Yeah.

So we, we dug into the word overwhelming. What about the word scary? What scary experiences do you remember? Quick question. What if there were a private community out there of people that were building businesses based on this podcast? Well, I just made it, and it's only for business starters. And business builders. It's called TK owners, and it's basically like having me and 100 other business geniuses as your business partner, but you give them 0% equity. Also, there's going to be exclusive new trends, growth hacks, business ideas, and a database of everything I've ever talked about. You'll find thousands of startup case studies. You'll have weekly ask me anythings with me while I'll answer your questions directly. You'll be in my Slack channel where I'm hanging out every week and helping members one on one. We've got exclusive guest speakers, including some names that you'll recognize. And if you're building something cool, I'll introduce you to anyone you need. TK Owners is the fastest way to plug into a smart, ambitious group of builders and accountability partners that are sharing wins without the fluff.

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And it's 99 bucks a month about the cost of an energy drink per day. You can join now@tkowners.com link in the show notes. What scary experiences do you remember?

There was just questions about where the money would come from to, like, pay the bills for the next month or, you know, because there have been. There have been business ventures where it's like you put in a lot of work up front and there's not a lot of payments for a long time. Like, I'm thinking of a year and a half where it was like there was no income. So I'm like, I don't know how we're paying these bills. And that's. That's a scary feeling. But I also, like, trusted in you. I knew that you had a plan and everything worked out.

That was the 18 months that we had to sell our rental homes just to pay our mortgage to pay the bills.

Well, and I'm grateful that it worked out the way that it did, that at least one of them appreciated it enough to be able to help cover the bells, because that. That timing was perfect.

Yeah, that was a scary 18 months because it was maybe the most time I had spent building something that never materialized. And also the only thing I had really built that I didn't have full say over. Which that's a pretty toxic combo in retrospect.

Well, that too. And then it was also during COVID Like, that was the height of COVID and everyone was home and So I feel like senses on all fronts were just heightened. There was no control over anything. It felt like. So that was probably peak scary.

It was. What are some memories that you have that you can recall about starting a business or building a business or the first time I told you about an idea that I had and where that went? Maybe I was really excited about an idea that never materialized. Is there anything you can remember along those lines? Or is it. There are too many to remember.

There might be too many. Like, and you're just such a good storyteller too. Like, I just remember being excited. This is not business related, but just like your excitement. And it's how contagious it is. Like when we were first married and you got the job at Sirin and you just come in and you tell me about all the. The adventures that you had in your first shifts of. Of waiting tables there, and you were just so, so happy. It felt good. And. And that was contagious. And I feel like that same energy and enthusiasm has, like, presented itself throughout almost all of your ideas. I remember in college, for an entrepreneurial class, you created, like, the SID safe. It was like the baby sling that was supposed to be safe so babies wouldn't die of sids. Like, you were excited about that, but. And it was new tests. Like, we had Carson at that point. And I think SIDS was like, so scary. So you were trying to solve that problem. And so I remember you being excited about that. I remember the excitement that came with phone restore too. Like, you just had full confidence. You saw this kid fix the phone. You. You researched the guys at LSU that were doing the same thing. Like, you felt so strongly that it was. It was a winning situation. And I think your drive and determination helped make it a winning situation.

It's funny because I probably wouldn't have started that business the same way today. I did research, but I didn't do any testing. You know, if it were today, I would have taken my mentor's advice and started fixing phones on the side. Prove the demand. Tried some paid ads, but I just thought the store worked in a very similar college town. There's not a store like that here. It's. It will work here as long as I get a good location. And it did. But it wasn't, like a runaway success. It took months for that location to take off, which was scary.

Yeah. I mean, even though it was a good location, it was in a good part of town. You didn't get, like, walkers coming up to it just randomly. It had to be A destination.

If we could go back in time, would you have preferred that I warned you about all of these businesses? I knew that I wanted to be in business, but I thought I wanted to have a business job at first. Right. I knew I was entrepreneurial as a kid, entrepreneurial as a kid, but that kind of went away from my teenage years. Would it have changed anything if, you know, we were 21, about to get married, and I said, hey, I'm going to start 75 businesses over the next 15 years. I don't know what our bank account will look like, but I know that it'll be exciting and I'll be happy. I will be happy. If we had a magic lamp, we could go back and would anything change?

No, I don't think so. I think I probably would have been, like, unsure about it, but I feel like the path that you've taken professionally, I just. I think that it's worked so well for you. Maybe my experience watching you at, like, the jail and just, like, suffer through a job versus, like, the excitement and the energy that came from creating your own thing, like, come good or bad, like fixing the problems that you create or. Or the happiness and joy and prosperity that comes from it. Like, I just think starting early was the right choice because now you've got all the experience that you can fall back on and. And utilize, whereas who knows how long you would have been stuck in, like, a corporate job and just miserable. I just think things would have looked a lot different. Maybe it would have been hard to break out of that corporate world. Maybe you would have been scared to start something new. Like, I'm grateful that you started when you were young and naive and ready to jump in with both feet, because I just think that it's played out. Yes, it's had its ups and downs, but I think it's played out so beautifully.

What advice would you give spouses if they have someone crazy like me that they're married to, either male or female?

I don't know. I don't know. That's a tricky one. I. I feel lucky because I feel like I've been able to just trust you. I feel like you've taken that trust very personally, very to heart, and.

I.

Knew that you were always going to provide for our family. So if that meant, like, a business failed and you had to get a job, you weren't above doing that. So I don't know. I don't know what the situations for other people are. If they feel like they have that same kind of confidence in Their partner. But yeah, it required a lot of trust.

So here's how this works. I make you free videos. I actually know what I'm talking about. I have no greasy sales pitch at the end. And if you implement what I talk about, you'll make a lot more money and have a better life. And all I ask for in return is that you hit the subscribe button and maybe even the notification bell. Just like that. Thank you. Where do you think that confidence and trust comes from? Because we met as 13 year olds, but we didn't know each other super well. We were friends and then you moved away and we didn't even connect until I got home from my mission at age 21, which is the same year we got married. So do you think you're naturally a trusting person? Do you think that came with time? Do you think it was because of a work ethic that you saw?

Yeah, I think it's the work ethic, honestly. Like when we were in college and like we bought our first house less than a year after we were married. Like seven months after we were married. And we were waiting 2008, in 2008, we were waiting tables. We were making technically on paper, 213 an hour. But we, we bought our first house. You were doing full time school, you got a job at the jail, like, and then we had another job on top of that. Like, I feel like that work ethic, like, you did well in your classes, you got scholarship for speech and debate, like you, you weren't gonna fail.

Yeah. I think if I just kept coming to you with ideas and then like went back to my video game, you know, or like, kept coming to us ideas and got season Ds in my classes.

Right.

And worked 10 hours a week. It would be a totally different vibe where it's like, I like that you're excited, but. But you play a lot of video games. Yeah, you know.

Yeah. I think, I think that the work ethic was really telling early on.

I think also that we're similar in that we're both pretty logical. And I remember the conversations about buying our first home. We had really cheap rent, abnormally cheap. It was $500 a month. Right. And it was a great location right on campus. But our mortgage to own a house, a $90,000 house after like escrow and everything was 483. So I remember saying like, okay, we do have to pay $3,200 down, but we'll save money and we'll own a home. We won't quote waste rent. We Will build equity in the home. And I think you just. That just made logical sense to you as well.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember early on, even in, like, early college, before we met each other, I wanted to buy a house. I didn't want to throw money away towards rent. So I think we were really, really aligned there.

Anyway, I think a lot of people are listening to this. Maybe they are the spouse or they have the spouse, and that is just. Has no risk tolerance. That's just innate for whatever reason. And they're watching this and they're just saying, okay, my spouse is a hard worker. I trust him. But that's so risky. I can't get around the risk. No matter. Like, some things are out of his control. What if the market turns and he starts a wealth management firm and he can't get clients or whatever it is? What would you say to spouses with that mindset?

I think it's important to have a backup plan, you know, like, make sure there's some savings or a job opportunity or something else that they can fall back on. But there's just so much potential, like, so much joy that can come from. From trying the new thing, from testing it out. And I feel like, regret. Like, you'll regret not doing it more than you'll regret doing it. And if you really put your effort into it, I think you can make something happen, Whether it's that business or you pivot it into something else. Like, I just think you gotta try it.

Yeah. Jeff Bezos has the regret minimization framework, which is when he's faced with two big decisions. Which one will he have less regret about making? And when he started Amazon, he was working for a hedge fund making really, really good money. But he's like, I'm just always going to wonder, what if. If I don't ever start this thing. And obviously he did.

It makes me think of you. Actually, we bought, like, our second car, third car, maybe, from Montgomery Automotive Group. And you always wanted to try that business. Oh, yeah, the concierge car buying.

Yeah. This is, like, where basically people tell you what car they want, you go to the auction and you buy it for them for, like, a $700 fee.

Yep. And you finally tried it, like, several years down the road, and you called it presto cars, and you hated it. It was the worst.

It was the worst business.

But I feel like if you didn't try it, then, like, you'd probably be trying.

I would have tried it eventually.

Yeah.

And I hated it because I'm not a car Guy.

Yeah.

So it's not scalable. I hated it because I already had a successful, thriving business at the time. And so with that contrast in my mind, it's like, why am I breaking down on the side of the road with these stupid cars? This business is printing money. What am I doing? Whereas if that were, like, my last resort, I would have made that work, even though I hated it. Right. Because I didn't like fixing phones or selling parts either.

Right, Right. And if anyone is watching or listening, he does not fix phones anymore. We still get calls or texts or Facebook messages about that. Yes. It's been 15 years.

What sacrifice do you think that we made either together as a couple or individually along the way that we didn't even realize at the time?

Sometimes I get envious because I've got friends with husbands who've got, like, jobs with great benefits. They've worked their way up the company, and, you know, they know what their paycheck is going to be every month. And we're still to a point where it's like, I don't know. I don't know what we're making, but it's. It's enough. We're gonna make enough. But it's like, oh, I. I am envious sometimes of, like, just, you know exactly what you're getting, you know exactly what you'll have, and you can budget for that. So maybe that. I don't know. I don't know if that would be considered stability because we've. We've had income and we've been stable. Like, we've been in the same house for nine years. Like, we have stability, but maybe the.

The financial, not income stability.

Right. Because it's not like we're going hungry.

Like, when was the last. I can think of this answer, but when was the last two months in a row where income was the same? Like, I can think of a lot of months in a row where it was zero.

Yeah.

I think in the LCD cycle days, it was the same for a while.

Okay. But LCD cycle, that was like 2017. Yeah, it's been a while.

It's feast or famine. We'll take a fat distribution. Maybe one company has. Is doing really well and has quarterly distributions. So that quarter pays for everything and then some.

Yeah. Or maybe we have to sell a rental house. We don't have any more of those.

We had to sell them all. I get jealous of people that have those jobs, too.

Yeah.

I really do. A lot of those people, though, have schedules that are not great. They're working A lot. And I think a lot of it is we live in an area where most of our friends are six to 10 years older than us.

Yeah.

So it's just kind of interesting. That's kind of a different phase of the career, like mid to late 30s versus late 40s. Mid to late 40s. What turning points or conversations that were key in our marriage, do you remember?

Nothing major. I mean, there have been opportunities that have presented themselves and we've prayed over them or whatever and proceeded. Nothing huge, though.

Like, what about after that conversation at Starbucks? Oh, remember when I came home?

Yeah.

And you didn't know about it yet.

Well, I knew you being home then was not good, and.

I know, but we didn't see this coming, right?

No.

I remember specifically walking in the mudroom from the garage. You're like, hey, what are you doing home? Having no clue. And I had no. I didn't see it coming. So.

Yeah.

You remember that moment?

Yeah, vaguely. Like, I had walked over there specifically to check on you because it was like the garage door just opened and he shouldn't be home yet. So I was confused. But, yeah, I remember. I think you told me then what had happened, but then you needed. You needed some space. Yeah. Mostly it's when those kinds of things happen. But I feel like you and I were kind of. We like to talk about the future and dream about, you know, what could be. And that's been a lot of fun, like detailing our dream house when we were newlyweds or, you know, things like that. I love that. I love that we've been aligned in those kind of ways. Nowadays, most of our conversations are about parenting our kids more than anything else. But I don't know. I don't know if that answered the question.

Yeah. What advice would you give a new spouse that is knowingly marrying a serial entrepreneur? Because that's not really what you did. Right. Because I was going to college. You knew I was entrepreneurial. But I think some people are about to get married or have recently been married, and they've been very upfront about that. Or any spouse that's already and has been married to someone that's very entrepreneurial.

Just trying to be in tune with what he or she needs. Like, I try to be supportive of you, but also recognize, like, when it's more helpful for you if I step back, like, I don't need to micromanage you. I don't need to bombard you with questions like, hey, how is this going to get paid? Or like, hey, are you thinking about this or that, Like, I know that you are. And so I can give you the space to kind of worry about the things that you are working on because you have so many demands on you from so many other people. So I don't want to add to that. I don't know. I don't know what advice to give.

What advice would you give a husband specifically to be a good husband as a serial entrepreneur or to give his wife reasons to trust him?

Yeah, that's a good one. I think. Just validation. Like if your wife is nervous about it, like, recognize that it's a scary thing and you're both going into it together. So being respectful of her and like how she's feeling about it and if she's, if she's scared, like talk through it, reevaluate, make those choices together. I feel like that's something that we have done. Like, I don't. You've never done anything behind my back or like started anything that we haven't talked about before, which I think is, is huge. So communication, I guess is hugely important on both sides for the entrepreneurial partner and the supportive one. Like just talk about it. Like if you're feeling apprehensive, let them know. But yeah, I think communication is key.

What about parenting? As an entrepreneur, what advice would you give parents or soon to be parents that are entrepreneurial?

Because you're an entrepreneur, that means you can't just leave your work at work because your work, you work from home. Therefore you can work all the time. You can work as much as you want. And because you love work like you want to work all the time, but it's important to like compartmentalize. You've got to break away from work, you've got to make time for the family, You've got to make time to connect with your spouse or partner, but also with your children. So if your schedule is so busy that it requires penciling in time to like spend one on one time with a kid or make it to an athletic event or whatever. Like make sure your family sees that you prioritize that something that you'll do is leave your laptop in the office rather than carry it around the house with you and work all hours of the family. And I think that that could go for anyone working, working, any job, like make time for your family. They will see it. It's really hot.

So video is cool. But you know what's better? Long form audio via podcast and my newsletter, tkopod.com go there to subscribe for free to my newsletter. It's one email a week. Very tactical. And then go to my audio podcast. Three episodes a week. Stuff like this. You're gonna love it. All free. No sleazy sales pitch. Tkopod.com what were the seasons of our marriage where I was the least present?

The most present was Houston and 50 and 60.

We moved to Houston for six months for my daughter's lung transplant. And I worked from home. And it was amazing.

It was.

And the business was doing well. And I worked remotely, of course. And we went on walks.

Yeah. And then we took the whole summer to see all 50 states. And we got like a T Mobile hotspot. Hotspot. So he could work while we were driving. But it wasn't ideal. So not a lot of work happened then. But we got lots of time with him and that was a. That was a really great time in our lives. As far as being the least present. I have a hard time pinpointing that.

I think it's more. I'm more often mentally not present than physically because I don't miss any sports stuff. I rarely miss dinner. I don't travel much evenings. You know, we do all the sports and church stuff. But.

But it's easy for you to sneak off to your office too, if we're. If there's a lull. If everyone's kind of doing their own thing, which, I mean, I'm not gonna fault you for.

From on a scale of 1 to 10, how good do you think I am at compartmentalizing stressful things at work? You can be honest.

Maybe like a six.

If I don't like your answer, I'll just edit it out. You said a nine.

I said a six. I think you're good at, like, not burdening me with whatever it is that's bothering you. But just because you're not telling me what it is doesn't mean I don't know that something's going on.

Pretty obvious.

Yeah. Yeah.

I struggle with that because I feel like people that are really good at this is maybe just a cop out, but people that are really good at compartmentalizing are like psychopaths, like, two faced. Like, how do you just put that terrible stressful thing aside and just smile and like, cook the spaghetti, like, without a care in the world? Like, does that make sense?

Yeah.

Is that just a cop out? Like, I just have a hard time, especially if it's really stressful. I have a hard time just forgetting about that right when I step out of the office.

No. And I get that. And sometimes I just wonder if it would be more helpful to like verbalize what you're feeling to get it out in the air. So I know what's bothering you. Because there are times when it's like, oh, I wonder, I wonder if I did something that annoyed him today. Or like, I wonder if the kids are getting on his nerves. But more often than not, it's something work related. But if you don't say that, wonder if it would be more helpful to like verbalize what you're feeling to get it out in the air. So I know what's bothering you. Because there are times when it's like, oh, I wonder, I wonder if I did something that annoyed him today. Or like, I wonder if the kids are getting on his nerves. But more often than not, it's something work related. But if you don't say that, I.

Don'T like talking about it.

Yeah.

Just for everyone listening, Jesse knows that this could be wrong. But in my head, when I talk about it, it stresses me out more. Like, it bubbles up even though I'm already thinking about it. Like verbalizing it makes it more tangible, more real. Whereas it. That could be like a momentary pain to like talk through it.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like a. If I face some more short term pain, it might be more long term, painless.

Right. And that's where I'm coming from. But I know everyone handles things differently.

Well, and you have a time. If you've ever seen the other guys. Jesse goes bad cop, bad cop a lot. I'll be complaining about something or something really stressful. And she just like immediately gets on my side of the table as a supportive wife. What? I don't like talking about it.

Yeah.

Just for everyone listening, Jesse knows that this could be wrong, but in my head, when I talk about it, it stresses me out more. Like it bubbles up even though I'm already thinking about it. Like verbalizing it makes it more tangible, more real. Whereas it. That could be like a momentary pain to like talk through it.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like a. If I they did that, oh my gosh. And that like amps me up even more. And I'm like, okay, we're not talking about this. I'm stressed.

I don't do that.

Yeah. What about getting kids involved with business? How do you feel about that?

I think it'd be great. I know we've talked about, for our kids, we want them to at least do a freshman year of college and then serve a mission for the church. And then after that they can decide like do they want to finish college or do they want to start a business with you? And it's like if they can have more entrepreneurial experience in their youth, like let's, let's do that. Let's give them opportunities to try it.

And see how it face some more short term pain. It might be more long term, painless.

Right. And that's where I'm coming from. But I know everyone handles things differently.

Well. And you have a time if you've ever seen the other guys. Jesse goes bad cop, bad cop a lot. I'll be complaining about something or something really stressful. And she just like immediately gets on my side of the table as a supportive wise, like what fits?

And if it's something they want to explore more later.

It's funny because we're. You're entrepreneurial as well. We're both very entrepreneurial, but we've never approached parenting from the perspective of our kids going to start businesses. School system is broken. Like we believe that the school system is broken, like to a large extent, like collegiate undergraduate level and K through 12. But it's just such an important cultural experience at any age to go through the normal schooling experience. I think we both value that greatly and we want them to see they did that. Oh my gosh. And that like amps me up even more. And I'm like, okay, we're not talking about this. I'm stressed.

I don't do that.

Yeah. What about getting kids involved with the business? How do you feel about that?

I think it'd be great. I know we've talked about for our kids, we want them to at least do a freshman year of college and.

Then both sides of the coin.

Yeah. I remember when the farmer's market was first announced, Chris's first reaction was we need to have a family business. And that family business quickly turned into me having a bakery from home. So which was fun. And I ran that for almost five years. I was still doing orders here and there. But I don't think it was the entrepreneurial experience that you were hoping that the whole family would get.

You could have quit at any time.

I could have. I, I did when I wanted to.

This is a similar question, what I already asked. But if you could go back in time and you saw the entire future, all the businesses, stresses, pains, and you could change any of it. What would you have changed if anything? Second question. What mindset would you have had if different than what you already had?

Well, I think my mindset would be a little bit More laid back. Like, don't sweat the small stuff because I mean at the time they felt huge, like the big setbacks or permission for the church. And then after that they can decide like do they want to finish college or do they want to start a business with you? And it's like if they can have more entrepreneurial trials that we had. But in the big picture, like they were all just stepping stones to experience in their youth. Like let's, let's do that. Let's give them opportunities to try it and see how it to something else. So I think that would have helped me have a little bit more of a laid back attitude. But also like when things were good, I would have known, oh, this is, this is a little more temporary. So let's, let's throw a little bit more in savings because that might come in handy later. So not being as upset by the setbacks but also like recognizing that the prosperity was great but short lived and we could be more prepared for later.

Yeah. One thing that I've noticed is like, like when we saw 50 states in 60 days.

Yeah.

And I was like in the back of my mind it was like emails, emails, calls, they're not going anywhere.

Yeah. Like they're just fits and if it's something they want to explore more later.

It's funny because we're. You're entrepreneurial as well. We're both very entrepreneurial, but we've never approached parenting from the perspective of our kids going to start businesses. School system's broken. Like we believe that the school system is broken like to a large extent. Like it's not like it was the best two months of my life and I don't remember the email that got answered two days later than it should have gotten answered. Like everything just, it always just works out. And so if everything's just going to work out, then do the core things as a family that will make the best memories for your kids. Like because it's all just going to work out. It's always just going to work out. Just not maybe not on the timeframe, maybe not at the scale you had in mind. But if you just keep pushing forward, everything falls into place.

Yeah. Yeah. As long as you keep working.

Collegiate, undergraduate level and K through 12. But it's just such an important cultural experience at any age to go through the normal schooling experience. I think we both value that greatly and we want them to see both sides of the coin.

Yeah. I remember when the farmer's market was first announced, Chris's first reaction was we need to have a family business toward it. I don't think in that family business quickly turned into me having a bakery from home. I don't think your advice is giving anyone license to just give up or like forget about what they're working on or just push it off forever, but just having a better perspective about it.

What are some things we do to keep a strong marriage?

We have our date nights. We go on dates every Saturday. Mostly. Mostly every Saturday. And that's big. I'm learning that not all couples go so. Which was fun. And I ran that for almost five years. I'll still do orders here and there, but I don't think it was the entrepreneurial experience that you were hoping that the whole family would get.

You could have quit at any time.

I could have. I did when I wanted to.

This is a similar question to what I already asked. But if you could go back in time and you saw the entire future, all the businesses, stresses, pains, and you could change any of it, what would you have changed, if anything? Second question. What mindset would you have had if different than what you already had?

Well, I think my mindset would be a little bit more laid back. Like, go to bed at the same time. Like, we have a couple friends who. It's like the husband goes to bed at like a reasonable time, but the wife, like stays up and does all sorts of other little things and doesn't go to bed until later or vice versa. It's like, I think that little time that we get before we fall asleep just like going over our day or talking about the next day or just whatever. Like, I think that connection on a daily basis is really healthy and helpful for our relationship.

It's funny because in a lot of ways we're so similar, but then on paper, we're complete opposites. You're an extrovert, a pure extrovert. I'm a pure introvert. But then we just naturally see eye to eye on religious, political, familial things. Any thoughts on that?

No, I love. It's great. There have been times. Don't sweat the small stuff because I mean, at the time they felt huge. Like the big setbacks or we've had slightly different opinions. You know, I wanted our kids to go to Alabama trials that we had, but in the big picture, like, they were all just stepping stones to something else. So I think that would have helped me have a little bit more of a laid back attitude. But also like for college and you're like, no, it's got to be byu and it's like we both strongly felt the way that we did, but we talked through it and listened, and I don't know, I think we can work through conflict, even.