How Anyone Can Make $10K+/Month From the Government

My subcontractor charged me $41,000 and I charged the government $52,000. So I made $11,000 profit in just a 2-week time period. The first contract that I bid on was the first contract that I won. That was kind of when I was like, okay, well, this is really easy.

$10,000 net profit to you every year for 5 years just from making a deal. You really don't do any work. You get paid and then you pass on the money.

I get paid first and then I pay who I owe. An hour a month. And the average person can win one contract and get them some type of steady income for the next 3, 5 years without having to essentially do anything. You don't need any money, but again, it's free. The government is required to spend money with us, so it's not like we're out here begging for opportunities. They need us.

How many hours a month would you say you're spending just to maintain the revenue you have?

An hour.

For all of your contracts combined?

The reason I say that is because you just have to put in an invoice. Me and my company, I'm not located in Texas, but I can team up with a painting company in Texas. Subcontract it out to them? Subcontract it out, put my price on top and kind of we both win on the contract.

Yeah, you're genuinely helping someone and they're not having to pay you. No, the government is. Yeah, so it's win-win.

One of my largest contracts was a $962,000 contract. My subcontractor charged me $700,000 and I was able to charge the government $962,000.

Now to me, the elephant in the room with this business is with AI. I could sound intelligent about any of this stuff. Are you using AI tools to take a shortcut here in any way?

Yeah, that's how I won contract. I use Claude. We'll walk you through the whole thing. I mean, you see these million-dollar contracts where you see one person, three people, and they're probably overbidding too. It's such an untapped market, it's crazy.

Yeah, yeah. Why aren't more people doing this? Why isn't this more popular?

I think that a lot of people just don't know about it.

Like, I've heard about it my whole career, but I've never thought to like really dive in, you know? But it seems like a no-brainer.

It's so easy. People think it's so overwhelming because some of the verbiage—

AI can do so much of that now.

I mean, yeah, we have AI, Meet Natalie.

Natalie makes six figures a year working about 1 to 2 hours a week landing government contracts in things that she has no experience in. Hazardous waste disposal, landscaping, two time zones away. All she does is bid on the jobs, find subcontractors to do the work, and captures the profit between what the government pays her and what she pays her subcontractors. You don't need to be established, you don't need to have experience, and if you know how to use ChatGPT, Congratulations, you're an expert on all of the thousands of jobs up for bid on SAM.gov. So if you want to start a business or a side hustle that can scale to 6, 7, or even 8 figures a year with basically no startup costs, low time spent per week, and you have an internet connection and a phone plan, this is the business for you. Please enjoy. Okay, so my goal is for the average person with no experience by the end of this episode to know how to get their first government contract. Do you think that'll be possible?

Yes. Okay.

And how did you first get into that?

It was actually so random. I was on Instagram. I had a friend that I was following for a really long time and they posted it on their story. Close friends. It wasn't even something that they were advertising, but they were talking about what they do and it kind of sparked my interest and I became obsessed with it and I learned about it. I attempted to do it and I won my first contract. So that's why I was just like, okay, this is something Everybody could do, you don't really need anything. So that's how I got into it.

Yeah. After you saw that story, what was the first thing you did?

I messaged him. I'm like, what is this? And how do I do it? Because I always seen him, you know, living nice, you know, doing all type of things, but I never knew what he did until that day. He decided to talk a little bit about it and I was intrigued. I was like, can I learn a little bit more about it? And he actually sent me something, but it was so confusing to me because I didn't know anything at all about what even government contracting was. So I became, I just went on YouTube and just educated myself and became obsessed with it. And that's really how that happened.

Okay. So where does the average person go to start shopping around for these, uh, opportunities?

So first and foremost, the first thing that people have to understand is that the government is required to spend money every year with people who have small businesses. So The average person, how do they become a small business? Well, just by having an LLC. So once you have an LLC, whether it's with your state, however you register your business, you would then register with SAM, which is a website that is free. It's public. It's called sam.gov. You would register your business as if it was like a business, like a job application almost. They ask you information about your business, and at that point you would then be ready to bid on contracts. And so if you see a contract that you're interested in that's in Texas for painting, you know, me and my company, I'm not located in Texas, but I can team up with a painting company in Texas.

Mm-hmm. Subcontract it out to them.

Contract it out, put my price on top and kind of we both win on the contract.

Yeah. So is the trick to not like name your business, you know, Natalie's Painting LLC, but more like Natalie Services LLC so you can keep it broad enough to not only have to bid on one type of industry.

Yeah, I always tell people to choose a generic name so that you, when the government sees proposal or the submission, they don't automatically judge you on your, you know, business name. So if it was Natalie's Window Washing and I'm submitting a proposal for air conditioning, you know, I don't want them to sway the government's decision on them choosing me. I always tell people to choose a generic name so you can go for any type of proposal. Sometimes they really just care about who's the lowest. They don't even care about What your name is.

Now, what stands out to you in looking at these opportunities? Like, what screams to you, this is the one I need to bid on? Because there's thousands on there, right? Like, how do you even know where to begin?

I look for something I can understand, right? Like, sometimes they look so incredibly overwhelming. Some of them are 20 attachments, 15 attachments, and I'm not really going to try to pursue something that I don't even know what they're asking for. My very first step on what I do is look for something that I understand what they're looking for. Now, apart from that, I also look for services. So contracts that have to do with services as opposed to products.

Mm-hmm.

Why do I prefer services over products? Because when you're just starting out, it's easier to have a conversation with a service provider and let them know like, hey, you know, the government pays on a net 30 after the service is completed. Than to have that conversation with a manufacturer who produces these items and needs to deliver these items. Yeah. And you having to tell them, you know, hey, I have to pay you afterwards. It's not always gonna be a smooth conversation, you know?

Yeah. There's more variables. Like, let's say the government needs like an airplane seat part. You're gonna have to go find manufacturers and like, what country are they in? Is that an approved country? Are they FAA certified? Like, what manufacturing standards do they adhere to? There's more ways to screw up. Whereas if it's like, like you said, painting, it's just more, it's more easy to understand, right?

Absolutely. Yeah.

So what was the first job that you bid on? And then I don't know if you won that or not. What was the first job that you won?

Yeah, the first contract that I bid on was the first contract that I won. That was kind of when I was like, okay, well this is really easy. It was for formalin disposal. So I knew when I first seen the contract, I didn't even know what formalin was, but I did know that they had a hazardous waste disposal. They needed a hazardous waste disposal over in California for a couple drums every couple times a year. And I was contacting different hazardous waste companies because I knew at least that's what it revolved around. And I knew that they would know what formalin was. So, um, as soon as I was able to contact one, they, they responded to me right before the bid was due and gave me a quote. I put my price on top and I won.

Okay, so I'd never heard that word in my life. Formalin, I'm looking now, is a type of formaldehyde, is that right?

It's a hazardous waste.

Okay.

Yeah.

So did you have in your background or history that screamed, yeah, I know what this is?

Nothing. I didn't, I didn't have anything. I was so scared to submit because it was my first submission. I didn't really even know if I was doing it the right way. But all I did know is that it was a 5-year contract. I was doing all this research and I'm like, okay, well, if I have somebody that can do the work and I can build out a relationship with them, then this should work. This should all work out. And so it did. I submitted the proposal with their quote. I put my quote on top. They submitted a quote for like $700 and I submitted a quote for $1,500 and I won. And they did a kickoff meeting. They let me know like, hey, um, the first pickup is in June. Let me know when you guys pick it up.

Did you start calling these, you know, waste— what are they called?

Like a waste disposal companies?

Yeah. Did you start calling them before you even submitted your bid or after?

Yeah, I always get a quote first, right? And get somebody that's willing to do the work before I submit, right? Because if I submit and I win and I don't have anybody to do the work, yeah, then I kind of messed up.

So that was in California and you were in Miami?

Yes.

Okay, so You got the $700 quote and then you just thought, I'm going to double it and see what they say.

Yeah.

Okay. You said 5-year contract. Like, is that $700 a month or a week or what?

It's $700. Well, it's $1,500 per pickup.

Yeah, right.

They gave me an estimated 14 to 16 pickups a year.

Right. Okay.

So I know in my mind there's going to be 14 to 16 pickups a year and there's $700 each pickup, but I'm charging the government $1,500. So I know that that's an $800 profit for me and I just have to pay out my subcontractor. So that was how it was. And it's a 5-year contract, so it lasts for the next 5 years till 2029.

Okay, so $10,000 net profit to you every year for 5 years guaranteed, right? This is, this is the government. And just for making a few phone calls, making a deal, you really don't do any work. You get paid and then you pass on the money. Is that right? Or do you have to front the money and then wait to get paid by the company in California?

I get paid first and then I pay who I owe.

Okay. So the government pays in 30 days?

It depends. Sometimes it can be quicker. It's usually a net 30 or net 45. That's the longest that I've ever seen. But on small purchases, things that are under $10,000, or I believe the new threshold for 2026 is $15,000. They haven't updated all the government purchase cards, but some agencies have credit cards that they can actually pay for a service as soon as it's done. So it just depends.

Okay. So you have no background with hazardous waste disposal, which I love. Are you only kind of quoting jobs nowadays that you kind of can wrap your head around, but you didn't start that way? Or like what made you pick that one out of all the others you could have bid on originally?

Well, I mean, to give you some kind of insight, when I first, I, I bid on that one, right? It was a hazardous waste company. I won. The second contract I submitted for that I won for, I didn't submit, I didn't win my second submission, but the second one that I actually won was a catering contract. So completely different industries. And this one was in Idaho. Um, obviously I'm not from Idaho, but I went and contacted a catering company over in Idaho. Turns out they had already worked with that camp, that facility already previously. So the process was simple. It was easy for me to explain to them the process of the contract and everything, cuz they already knew about it. And we won the contract and that was for 2 weeks. It was for. To feed soldiers breakfast, lunch, and dinner for 2 weeks. So my comp— the company that I worked with had to go and deliver it, drop it off, you know, dispose of everything, and then come back the next day for 2 weeks.

And what were the unit economics on that deal?

My subcontractor charged me $41,000 and I charged the government $52,000. So I made $11,000 profit in just a 2-week time period.

Okay. So that was— did you price that like per head, per person, per meal? Something like that.

It was per person per meal. So my subcontractor charged me $8 for breakfast, $10 for lunch, $11 for dinner. And I charged the government $10 for breakfast, $12 for lunch, $15 for dinner. And it was about 300 soldiers, I believe it was. And so it kind of added up because it was every single day, breakfast, lunch, dinner, you know?

What made you think to not mark that one up as much as the waste disposal? Just thinking like, ah, it's, you know, it's hard to justify paying $20 for a lunch. I'm happy to make less profit on this because there's probably less margin to work with on a catering deal.

Well, at this time, I didn't know this information at this time, but there's actually a way that you can look up past pricing and see what the government previously paid for things similar to what we're buying now. You can even find the exact same contract that was issued previously and see the, the number that they charged the government. So if I knew that then, I'm, I probably would've definitely gauged it a little bit different. But at the end of the day, I still won, so it doesn't really matter. But nowadays when I'm pricing things, I'm able to check past pricing. I'm able to look up to see, you know, hey, what did the government pay for something like this before? And then I obvi— obviously can take into consideration inflation, right? You know, you have to maybe charge a little bit more, maybe not too much, but you have an idea of what the government was paying for something like this that can guide you.

All right, I'm gonna have to get that website from you later. Knowing what you know now, what do you think you could have closed those first 2 deals at, if not $1,500 and, you know, $8 for breakfast, you know what I'm saying, $10 and, and $11?

To be honest, with government contracting, it's not more so like I will charge more because the government is always going to They're just like us, right? They're always gonna wanna go with the cheapest price. So even if you're the most valuable, they still will choose someone cheaper than you. So it's not about like, hey, you know, now if you do have that data and you understand, like, okay, for example, one of my largest contracts was a $962,000 contract, right? So on that contract, that's for a landscaping contract, and that is in Colorado. It's a 5-year contract. Does that mean I'm gonna be get paid this upfront? No, it's spread out over 5 years. My subcontractor charged me $700,000 and I was able to charge the government $962,000. Now, mind you, when I knew this information about being able to check data on past pricing and able to see what the government paid for something like this, I actually found the exact contract and I seen that previously they were charging $1.6 million.

Wow.

For the 5-year contract. So, you know, mm-hmm.

For the same type of.

For this project work for the same work. So I definitely thought after I won that, like, okay, I could have definitely charged the government like $200,000 more, you know, because I was still so cheap, but it was a lesson learned. You know what I mean? You, you, you, I, yeah, sure. And it was still so much profit for myself. So at that point I just felt like, you know, there's no reason to be greedy. I won. It's past performance. You can just win another one. So.

So is the name of the game here largely just supply and demand? Like, yeah, bidding on jobs that, uh, most other people aren't bidding on?

Not just that, but it's like, it's almost a numbers game, you know? Like the, the more contracts you put in, the more you win. And there's sure hundreds of thousands of contracts being put out every day. And it's not just government, right? Like it's local, it's state, it's city, schools, universities. Everybody has some type of procurement system. So the way I looked at it when I first started was, okay, if I can just put in as many as I can, I know I'll win at least 2 to 3. That's just kind of how I looked at it and it, and it worked.

What is like your hit rate on average? How many, what percentage of jobs do you close that you bid on?

I would say, so just to give you an example, around when I first started, I had one month where I tried to submit, the most I submitted was 14 in that month and I only won one.

Hmm.

But last year, I submitted 9 and I won 4. I guess my closing rate now is, is definitely pretty good, but the more you do it, the better you get, right? The more chances you are because you understand the process.

What's stopping you from, you know, submitting 50 a month? Is it that time consuming or are you not seeing that many promising things to bid on based on what your criteria may be?

So it's, it takes time to get to the final step. So for example, when you see a contract that you want to work on, right? And it's due in 2 weeks and you go on Google and you're looking for subcontractors. You need information for the submission, right? Along with your price, you may need past performance, you may need some additional information on how they plan on doing the work. You are dependent on the subcontractors that you're calling. So if your subcontractors are not giving you the time or things that you need efficiently, yeah, then they fall through the cracks, right?

Can I give you like a hypothetical?

Mm-hmm.

So let's say you're, you see a contract in Medford, Oregon, small population, not a lot of people, and it's very unique. It's like, um, let's say it's like, uh, concrete leveling in Medford, Oregon. You look it up and there's like 3 concrete leveling businesses within 1 or 2 hours and you call all 3 and no one's picking up the phone and you're just like, I can't bid on this cuz there's just nothing going on here. Is that kind of a good example of one that you wouldn't bid on? Like you might put in the legwork. To bid on it, but you just don't bid because you're not seeing enough there.

Exactly. So that's why I say, like, you may plan to work on, you know, just like I said, when that month that I tried to do 9 or 14, I planned to submit way more than that, but that's just how I was able to actually fully submit with all the information that I needed. So I guess I would say what I say, it's time-consuming. When I was trying to win as much as I can, I probably put in maybe 2 to 3 hours a day, but once you actually have a contract What is it, like an hour a month, you know, to maintain the contract and you have it for 5 years. So I guess my thing is, is once you can actually win you a couple contracts, because all it takes is one contract. I mean, the average person can win one contract and get them some type of steady income for the next 3, 5 years without having to essentially do anything. You know what I mean? And you don't, you don't need any money. You just need a business. And as soon as you have a business, you're automatically qualified. To do business with the government. You know what I mean? Once you're registered and you, you know, there's different systems, you just have to register and stuff. But again, it's free. The government is required to spend money with us. So it's not like we're out here begging for opportunities. They need us to come and submit proposals for these so that they can vote us every year.

So yeah, they legally have to put this in front of everyone. They can't just go pick their own company, right?

Yeah.

Now answer me this. Let's say for the Idaho catering job, you bid $50,000, and then the government— I assume they see you're incorporated in Florida, right? Let's say that's in Boise, right? And then there's actually a Boise catering company that has like a local presence, and they're named Boise Catering LLC or whatever, and they bid $55,000. Is the government still going to go with the cheapest bid even though they're out of state and they have a generic name and maybe less track record? Are they going to pay 10% more for the local business with the relevant name and more of a track record?

So on every single contract, they give you an evaluation criteria. On every single contract, they tell you this is what—

what they're looking for.

Yeah.

Okay.

So if they tell you they're looking for the lowest price, which was what that contract was, it doesn't matter where you are. If you're the lowest and you're deemed— and you're deemed reasonable, you will win. And how does someone essentially become deemed reasonable? Well, you have a decent price and you followed all the submission requirements. Seems reasonable. And that's how, how they kind of decipher.

So in other circumstances, the listing might say, we want a local company, we want someone that has at least 4 jobs on your profile, no subcontractors, we want you to do the— like, will they get specific on criteria like that?

Yeah, they will.

You just wouldn't even waste your time on that?

Yeah, yeah. If they— I mean, first of all, subcontracting is encouraged in government contracting. So if it is explicitly stated that you cannot do government contract or that you can't subcontract, they're gonna stu— they're gonna tell you that. But most of the time they'll say, if you're working with a subcontractor, give us their company information also.

Oh, interesting. Okay. So you don't have to be like sneaky about subcontracting stuff out.

No, not at all.

It's expected.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. It's not like just cuz you give out the name of your sub, they're gonna go around you. Like they can't, they won't, they don't. You've already signed a contract with you.

Yeah. If you already won, they can't, they can't do anything about it. You may run into certain situations where you're working on a contract, you haven't won it yet, and you reach out to a contractor that does want to go ahead and go behind your back and win it, bid on it. But it doesn't ever bother me. It doesn't ever— I mean, there was times where I walked into a room, everyone is older than me, everyone has their uniform shirts on, and I've still won the bid. So it doesn't matter, you know, what your criteria is or what your history is. There's certain specific things that the government looks for and they always state it. You know, but people are in it, are there experts, they're experts in what they do, right? I'm an expert in government contracting. So when these experts come and try to go around me and try to submit proposals on what the job is, they usually miss something or they try to overcharge because they think it's the government and it's like, okay, well I'm gonna charge this much because it's the government. And you know, we're like company, we have 10 years of experience. Why wouldn't they choose us? But that's not how the government works. And so that's why I have the advantage over people like that.

Yeah. Hey, YouTube's fine, but what about when you're driving around? What about when you're mowing the lawn? You need my audio podcast, The Koerner Office. Just look up TKO Pod in Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So we need to get like this preconceived notion out of our head that's like, the government's so bad with money, they pay stupid amounts for stupid things. Like, we need to go into this thinking like, We need an aggressive price, period. That's what they're looking for.

Yes and no, right? Because there's some contracts where when you look up history and it's like, okay, they paid pennies on a dollar for this. Like, how can I even find somebody that can get this low? Then you have other examples, which one I just told you where the Colorado last contract was 1.6 and I charged $962,000. You know what I mean? There was almost $600,000 for me to be able to play with. And I could have definitely been way less aggressive. I could have definitely charged more. So it really depends, right? It really depends. And I think that the deciding factor is once you kind of look up that past pricing and you kind of see like, okay, if this is what they charged before, then I know how much I have to charge now.

Yeah. Do you recommend that people start with like a scattershot approach, bid on all kinds of random things? Learn what they like, what they dislike, what they're good at, what they're bad at, and then settle into a niche? Or do you recommend that people stay broad and just look for opportunities no matter what it looks like?

I think initially, uh, when I first started, I kind of was going for any shiny object and I can't say that it was rewarding, but I did learn that really niching down to a specific industry can take you a lot farther and can get you a lot larger contracts. Because with the government, under $350,000, you don't need any past performance. So really, anyone can submit contracts because they're just looking for a quote.

For a contract value of under $350,000, you don't need any track record? No. Is that what you're saying?

Yes.

Wow. So you're able to bid on the landscaping one after you have, you know, somewhat of a, of a track record, but that couldn't have been your first one.

Not saying that you can't bid on it because you can still bid on it and use your partner's past performance, right? Even if you don't have any past performance, I can use my partner's performance and it counts under my own. But as far as my own company, and I'm just doing it myself, anything that's under $350,000, they don't even ask you for past performance. They just want a quote. It becomes an RFQ as opposed to an RFP, which is a request for proposal, request for quote. So in order to really hit on those contracts that are over $350,000, those million-dollar contracts, You're going to need to provide some type of past performance, whether it's your teaming partners or it's your own, you're going to need to provide some. And so in my experience, I think that when you first starting, you're just trying to understand and learn the process and trying to gain some profit. But once you start building your business in government contracting, it's definitely good to niche down to a specific industry. Like for now, my main industries are hazardous waste and landscaping. You know, those are the type of contracts that I try to go for. But there's some that I've met people that do military tires. I've met someone that does solely veteran homes, you know, places for veterans to sleep at when they don't have anywhere, you know, so that they're not homeless. He's won billion-dollar contracts by contacting housing places and getting a belay or relationship, getting a quote, submitting for the proposal, and winning those contracts.

Now to me, the elephant in the room with this business is with AI, like I could be an expert in any of these quotes. Like I could sound intelligent about any of this stuff. And if something has 15 attachments or 25 attachments, I make a Claude project with that and ask it questions and like come up to speed. Are you, are you using AI tools to kind of take a shortcut here in any way?

Yeah, I've actually just created my own tool to do this, but that's how I won contracts, right? I use Claude. That's like my biggest. Every time I look at a solicitation or a contract that I work on, I go on, right on AI, I make a project. I think you can do it on ChatGPT also.

Mm-hmm.

Go and make a project, attach all the attachments. I have a specific prompt that I've made and developed so that I can quickly identify like, do I wanna work on this or do I not? I already have let the bot know that it's an expert in government contracting and an expert in whatever the industry is. And I ask the prompt and I'm able to decipher like, okay, Do I want to work on this? Do I, do I not want to work on this? What are my submission requirements? Help me make a proposal. How do I submit? You know, it will walk you through the whole thing.

Yeah, that's amazing. What other types of random contracts have you won and how did those go?

A really random one was a relocation one. A lot of, a lot of people were confused about that one. Um, but it was, uh, the government was buying a woman's home that was right on the corner of the Dismal Swamp. In Virginia, and they were looking to knock it down to build a parking lot for the Rangers. And it was this small little tiny house that was right on the end of the street. And if you actually go on Google Maps, you can, you can see it right on the corner of the swamp.

I'm gonna pull it up. Do you have an address?

Yeah, look up the U.S. Dismal Swamp, and her address was 1322 White Marsh Road. Look that up.

There it is.

Right here, that white little house, that, that right here. Yes.

Oh man. Okay, all right, so you saw this as, as a bid on sam.gov?

So it was a bid, it was, um, a relocation bid. They were asking for somebody to come and assist this woman for her moving process.

So the government was paid, like eminent domain basically.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Okay.

And so they wanted to knock it down and she was living there for about 3 years and, you know, they already had let her know that the government was going to, you know, take over the property and stuff like that. And so they issued the contract and they needed someone to assist with that. So the government would pay for all the moving costs, but they needed somebody to assist in the process, like somebody to kind of look for apartments with her, um, help her apply, help her get approved. And, um, that was what the contract was for. And I, I put it at $14,000. And because I was essentially doing the work myself, right, I, I'm— I can help her find an apartment. I don't need to hire somebody else to do that. I made the money myself. So that was a, a little bit of a different one.

Yeah.

But it was an amazing one, right? Because I didn't have to pay anybody else. I, I flew out there to Virginia, met with her, seen a couple different properties, seen what she was looking for. Helped her apply, helped her get approved, and that was it. Wow.

So they didn't need you to be like a licensed realtor or anything? Like really no qualifications on this one?

Nothing.

So how many hours would you say you put into this one?

It's as simple as going on Google and looking for some apartments.

Yeah. And flying out there. You had to pay for your flight and your hotel.

Yes. And get re— that's what I remember. The government, you have to include that in your pricing. You have to think about these things in your pricing.

Mm-hmm.

The government paid me after the service was completed, but I asked for payment plans, right? Like, um, progress payments. So once I would go see her and have the conversation with her, I would ask for $5,000. Then after that, go and fly out again after she decided which one she wanted and did a whole safe and sanitation review and walkthrough, another $5,000. And then the $4,000 when the contract was over.

That's amazing. I mean, you probably made over $1,000 an hour on that.

Yeah, over, definitely. It was barely any time. I think that going out to Virginia, just, I'm sure, and help—

you're genuinely helping someone and they're not having to pay you, the government is. So it's win-win. Yeah, I would think that jobs like that don't get bid on very much at all because it's not— it's unique, it's not super scalable, so to speak, right?

People are always looking for specific industries, but it's really those niche— that's why I say those niche down off type of contracts are the ones that there's people that don't even submit on them.

Any idea what percentage of these jobs get zero bids?

No, but I know it's, it's some. I know it's at least, I want to say maybe 8%, 9%.

That's crazy. There's just too many, there's just too many jobs for everyone to wrap their arms around. There's too many random things out there for there to be something for everyone, right?

Yeah.

Are you able to see how many other bidders there are or interested parties there are, or is that blind to you.

So that's what, um, actually now on SAM.gov you're able to add yourself as a potential vendor. So if you add yourself and other people add themselves, then you're able to see how many other people are potentially looking to bid on that contract. But previously, um, on that FDPS website, you were able to look at the data to see what people or how many people offered on it. And I mean, you can see these million-dollar contracts where you see one person 3 people, 2 people, and they're probably overbidding too. Mm-hmm. So it's like, that's why, you know, it's such an untapped market. It's crazy.

How much does that weigh into your calculus on should you bid on this job or not? Like how many other people are interested in it?

It doesn't bid on— it doesn't weigh on me at all.

Okay. You're more concerned about finding someone to actually do the thing. You want it to be in your lane, which is like, you know, hazardous waste removal and landscaping. And you want it to be profitable enough. Is that kind of what you're looking at?

Yes. I mean, I still look for all types of different contracts that make sense that I have an opportunity to bid on, because why not, right? But if, as far as those really large contracts, I know that I already have past performance in waste management, in hazardous waste and landscaping. So I know that those, I can definitely go over $2 million, $3 million contracts, right? But if I see something else that I understand and I can find somebody to do it, then I'm gonna do it because why? I have the confidence that I understand the government contracting process than a lot of other people. So even if there was 15 people submitting, I know that probably 8 out of those people, more than half, don't know the process as well as I do. Because although yes, the government is looking for somebody who's reliable to do the work, there's so many other factors, you know what I mean? If you miss the format. It has nothing to do with the work that's actually required in the contract, but just because the format is incorrect, you can't follow the directions. So the government is not even gonna look at your proposal.

For people that you've seen get excited about this and get started on this and then just flame out, why is that? Why are they losing steam and losing interest, and how can people avoid that?

I think that the reason why, uh, people might lose steam and stamina is because you have to submit some bids. You know, you, you gotta put in that work. And submit some bids and you're not gonna win every single one. You know what I mean?

You gotta be okay with that.

You have to be okay with that. You have to understand you're not gonna win every single one. But as long as you understand that one or two can change, you know, trajectory, a lot of things for you in your life, you should continue to try to win those contracts. You know what I mean? But you have to go into it understanding that you're not gonna win every single one.

Yeah. Okay. So what was the name of that website where you can see what the government paid for past jobs?

You can go to USA Spending. Everything is public. Everything is public information. So there's a website called USA Spending.

There used to be a website, usaspending.gov.

Yep. Mm-hmm. Okay. You can find every company on there that does business with the government. You can find contracts on there. You can see how much a specific agency is spending on a specific NAICS code. Cause you know, government contracting, they go by NAICS code, which is just another word for like an industry code. That's a, a data website, right? There used to be another one called FDPS, which was a real gem, but they just actually decommissioned it, which is so sad. Okay. But now you can use USA Spending and it's all free, you know, the government doing business with the government.

Yeah.

It's, it's public information. They even have advisors in your area called PTAC offices and Apex, and they are advisors that you can come and actually show them a proposal or actually ask for step-by-step information in your area.

Okay, so how long have you been doing this now?

Since 2024.

So 2 years-ish. And what are your numbers like today? How much have you made? What is your monthly revenue and profit like today from this?

So, um, on my contracts, I probably make about $10,000 to $12,000 on my contracts every single month. The most that I've ever made on one contract was my Colorado contract, and that was about $15K. But with all my other contracts, I got about $24K that month. But on a regular month, let's say for example, when, because I have 3 that is landscaping. So let's say when the season is down and there's not much landscaping, then those months can look like maybe $4,000 to $5,000. They look lower because it's based on the services that are required in the contract. So that's what a year or my monthly revenue looks like.

And, you know, a lot of these are 5-year contracts. So that's recurring every month for 5 years for doing some legwork upfront and then like an hour a month of work.

Yes.

And that you said 10 to 12, that's profit. That's not revenue, right?

Yes.

Guys, TKowners.com, that's my community where people are building businesses. I do AMAs, Q&As every week live. You can ask me anything you want. You can have accountability partners. It's about 1,000 people in there building, starting, growing businesses. Check out TKO, as in the Koerner office, tkowners.com. How many hours a month would you say you're spending just to maintain the revenue you have? Not, not to include growing the business and bidding on more jobs, just to maintain that $10 to $12K a month.

An hour.

For all of your contracts combined.

The reason I say that is because you just have to put in an invoice. Yeah. If you have reliable subcontractors, right? That's, that's a big key, right? Because if you don't have reliable subcontractors, it's not gonna run as smooth as how I'm talking about. Right?

Mm-hmm.

People that I wanna work with are people that are hungry for the contract as I am. So I don't have to be responsible and on top of them to know what they have to do because they already know what they have to do.

Yeah.

So every month all I have to do is just submit an invoice.

So I love the word hunger there cuz I look for the same thing in employees. So if you're like interviewing, quote unquote interviewing, calling subcontractors, doing research before you even put in a bid and you hear things like, oh, you know, we're pretty busy right now, I'll get back to you. You're just like, next, next. You're not hungry. You don't care about me. You're not gonna pay me on time. You're gonna charge too much. So you're looking for hunger, right? You're looking for someone who really wants the work, cuz you've seen and I've seen that's correlated to performance, right?

Absolutely.

This all hinges, not all, but if this largely hinges on good subcontractors, what else do you look for in that?

Communication has to be impeccable. We have to be on the same page at all times. If there's any problem, because problems happen, you know what I mean? Contracts, people are normal, right? Everybody is normal, just like the government. They're just like us. Things happen and sometimes problems do happen and you have to come up front and, you know, kind of come up with a solution. But the government will much rather deal with the problem and figure out a solution than go and find a whole new contractor and go through the whole procurement process to quit. So you wanna make sure you have an honest subcontractor who's gonna, you know, tell you like, hey, you know, this may be an issue or this, whatever. Just communication is super strong. So if I'm already contacting you to be my subcontractor or work on a contract with me and you respond to me 3 days later, or, you know, you're not really interested, I cannot work with somebody like that because your performance is dependent on how the contract runs for me.

So are you able to swap subcontractors mid-contract if they flake out on you?

You are. I do always talk about at least trying to find a contingency, um, once you do win a contract, just to always protect yourself. Because in essence, it's your contract, and if anything goes wrong, it's on your business. It's not on the subcontractors. So yes, you can absolutely switch if things are not going the way that it is, but you definitely want to try to prevent that from having to happen to you because you don't want to go through that stress of having to find another contractor, do it within the same price that you were paying before, because now if they're higher, you have to lose out.

So what other questions do you ask during your research phase that tell you a lot about that subcontractor?

I definitely go and do research on their reviews. Do they have a website? Do they have any work that they've done anymore? How, who have they worked with? How does their email look? You know, just the, the same way that I may think the government may judge me is the same way I kind of wanna look at these subcontractors, right? I wanna put myself in their shoes, so I wanna make sure that they're credible. I wanna make sure that they are serious about their business, right? I don't wanna work with somebody who's just trying to figure out their business or just trying to get it out. I need someone that is dependent on this income for their business.

I imagine you're not picking a lot of subs then that are like big, well-established businesses then. You're— are you picking like a lot of solo operators, smaller businesses?

I wouldn't say solo, but small businesses, right? Some small businesses that are like, for example, the one, my Colorado, it's a team of 6, you know, it's a landscaping team of 6. Okay, I have a couple other, you know, contracts that are pretty solid, um, but they're not so gigantic where they can work on three— work in three different cities, you know what I mean? So I definitely want to look for something that's established, not super small, because if it's only one person, what happens when you're not around, you know what I mean? Is the work still going to be done?

And I imagine you're looking at reviews, Google reviews, like you're diving deep on them, because sometimes they might answer all the questions perfectly and you look at the reviews and they suck.

100%. 100%.

And vice versa, maybe.

Yeah. You just have to make, just be mindful. Like if you want your contract to run smoothly, you gotta make sure that you have a good subcontractor.

Yeah. Why aren't more people doing this? Why isn't this more popular?

I think that a lot of people just don't know about it.

Like I've heard about it my whole career, but I've never thought to like really dive in, you know? But it's, it seems like a no-brainer.

It's so easy. People think it's so overwhelming because, I mean, cuz granted there's a lot of paperwork sometimes, right? Some of the verbiage.

And AI can do so much of that now.

I mean, yeah, we have AI that has made government contract a lot easier the last couple years, just, and now that people are talking about it more, you know, people are starting to use it and kind of put two and two together. But it's so easy. You don't have to become a government contractor, but you can definitely use it to try to fund some of your other dreams, right? Try to use it to invest in other things, other businesses. I mean, it can definitely give you some type of freedom. I, I feel like. And that's why I'm— I wish a lot more people knew about it, truly.

I mean, startup costs, you need a cell phone bill, you need an internet connection, you need to— the state filing fees for your LLC, which can be $100 to $300. Are there any other startup costs that we're missing here?

Nope.

That's crazy.

You just need a business, some internet, and some hustle. You, you definitely need—

you got to hustle.

You got to hustle. You got to, you know, I mean, like I said, am I putting 8 to 10 hours a day? No, absolutely not. But I created a system for myself, right? Like Monday, I'm looking for opportunity. I'm gonna spend 2 hours just looking for as many opportunities as I can. Tuesday, I might go ahead and create some scopes of works, right? Some scopes of work so I can send them over to whatever subcontractors I contact. Then Wednesday, I call them. Thursday, I gather. Friday, I look again. You know what I mean? Like, I, I set myself up so it's not such a daunting and overwhelming thing, but you definitely got to put some time in. If you wanna win.

Now, if someone wanted to really scale this, like into a big business, is that possible? Are there enough jobs to go around?

Absolutely. I mean, just the way that I feel like this can be scaled as far as within government contracting is being a consultant, right? Is consulting and helping other small businesses win government contracts. Just because, like I was saying earlier, businesses are experts in what they do. They don't know how to win a government contract. So, just how they walk into those rooms and there's 15 other people and they think, hey, this is the government, I should be able to charge this. And I come in with my uniform shirt, they still lose. Mm-hmm. So, it's like, you know, there's room for you to grow and, and win in this space because you can help people and businesses win these contracts.

Now, other than this random, you know, deal outside the swamp, do you have to do anything in person or are you doing stuff over Zoom?

No, it's over Zoom. It's all digital. Yeah. I, I did have to go to Colorado. I mean, I didn't even have to, um, it was, uh, the snow season was coming up, so they wanted me to go out there just to kind of walk the site, um, and make sure we familiar. And I told her that I would come out there and she ended up messaging and saying, oh, well, if you wanna FaceTime, you can also do that also. So I just say that to say that you don't have to go in person for things. They definitely have an option to do it digital, but I wanted to.

Yeah, you find— sign a 7-figure contract. Let's fly to Colorado. Sure, no problem.

Let's go meet the people who are working for me, you know.

Is there anything about this business that, uh, I should have asked you but didn't?

Felons can do this, you know.

Really? Yeah, that's crazy.

Yeah, it is, right? Felons can do this because they're not the people that are on site doing the work.

They're subbing it out.

Are subbing it out. So your subcontractors cannot be felons, right? Because they might have to be on site, and if they're on site, it's a government facility. But if you're a felon, you can do this. You can subcontract the work out, you know, and that's a big thing, especially nowadays when it's so difficult.

Yeah, they can't get jobs.

They can't get jobs. Yeah, something you can do, and you don't need anything but a business.

I worked in a prison, and I have a lot of empathy for those guys trying to come out and turn their life around. The vast majority of them just go right back. Mostly because they can't get a job. They can't kick their old habits. So that's a great idea.

Yeah. And just people don't know that, you know what I mean? They think it's because the government, you have to do all this and that. And so the regular people, just like the government makes mistakes too. They be messing up.

Oh yeah.

Actually, just to put it in perspective, the contract with the Colorado one that I'm telling you about, it was actually for $700,000 originally. And I'm sorry, $800,000. And my subcontractor was charging $500,000. But when the contract was awarded and they asked my company to go out there and do a walkthrough, my subcontractor said, hey, this was— they want us to do all of this, but they didn't mention that in the scope of work. They didn't write that out, they didn't put that in the contract. So I was actually able to get a modification and actually get the government to change it to the price that I had then, to the $962, because they made a mistake. And that's a potentially a almost a, what, a $162,000 raise because, yeah, made a mistake.

And don't be afraid to come back and say, listen, this wasn't in there. Like, they're gonna, they're gonna make mistakes, 100%, 100%.

Yeah, because if, if your subcontractor is coming to you and saying, hey, I need more money, then I need to go to the government and say, hey, we need more money, you didn't, you didn't say something correctly, because I know I relayed all the information that you gave to me to them.

Yeah. So is there a limit to how many you can apply for or bid on? No, just keep going.

Just keep going, man. Just try to win as many as you can and team up. And then you, and then you can, then the, it's, it's even better because you can, so many opportunities just from this, right? Because we talked about government contracting and building your business, but you can also be a consultant and help other businesses win contracts, right? Win a percentage on the backend. And now you're dealing with much larger contracts because you're helping these well-established businesses, right? You can make different opportunities for yourself just by knowing the skill. And remember, government contracting, we have government contracting, but that you have local, you have city, you have state, you have, there's opportunities everywhere.

Yeah. So Natalie, this is incredible. You're inspiring to myself and anyone else listening to this or watching this. Where can we find you if we wanna learn more?

Um, so you can follow me on Instagram. @NatalieTheCEO. You can get me on TikTok, Biz Motion with Natalie. And then I just started my YouTube, so I'm trying to drop some more information on there, some free gems. I have a lot of free information on my— I have a free ebook. It's 38 pages. It's, um, a lot of information. And yeah.

Okay. Well, we'll, we will link to that. Thank you, Natalie.

You're welcome.

Listen, I need more people like this to interview on my podcast. So if you know of someone with a side hustle or a business that's unique and cool and super profitable, email Molly, M-O-L-L-Y, @cofounders.com. That's one word, co-founders.com. Molly@cofounders.com. Tell her your story and we'll give you $100 if we end up interviewing them. Okay, so after posting the trailer for this episode to Twitter and other social media platforms, I learned a lot more about this industry. So I just wanted to clarify a couple things. Number one, there is a law that says if you win a contract from the government, you have to do at least 50% of the work yourself, with one exception. So for certain industries, you can only pay the company doing the actual work up to 50% of what the government pays you. But the exception is that if the company you hire is also a certified small business in the same industry as you, that 50% cap goes away. So it's very important which subcontractors you pick. I'm assuming Natalie picked subcontractors in the same industry as her so she wouldn't be exposed to that 50% cap, but we didn't get that granular in the episode as you just heard. Number 2, there are special programs out there that Natalie may have taken advantage of. That could give her a small leg up against competition: owning a woman-owned business or a Black, Hispanic, or other minority-owned business, veteran-owned business, or a business in a poor neighborhood. If you get certified as one of those 4 things, and there may be more, you can often bid on some contracts that other people can't bid on. The government has a goal of giving at least 5% of all contracts to female-owned businesses. So go look up My SBA Certifications to see what you can qualify for. It's free to apply. Number 3 is you have to be adding some value to the job that you just won, which is probably why Natalie said she flew out to Colorado and she flew out to Virginia, because if you don't do anything whatsoever, no strategy, consulting, coordination, etc., it's just called a pass-through scheme, which is very illegal. Government contracting is an awesome business and definitely worth pursuing, but do your research, and we will do better at doing more research on our end as well. Your local PTAC or Apex Accelerator office will give you free advice, so reach out to them for help. If you like this content, please share with a friend, hit a like or a comment below, and we'll see you next time on the Koerner Office.