How Can You Create a Serial Entrepreneur?

Hey guys. Just want to do something a little different today. So I'm interviewed about once or twice a month on various podcasts, and frankly, most of them I'm not too impressed with. But I was just interviewed on the Millennial Investing podcast and I really liked it. I felt like they asked some really interesting questions that most people don't care to ask. They did a lot of research on me, and frankly, it was a good listen, whereas usually I kind of cringe listening to my own interviews. So the Millennial Investing podcast has interviewed people such as Cody Sanchez, Nick Huber, Chris Powers, Neil Patel, Noah Kagan. So it was an honor to be included. I hope you like it. Let me know if you have any questions. Co founders is a vehicle for me to plant those ideas with other people. And because, you know, I. People tell me a lot like, what if you just did one thing? It's like, well, I do do one thing and it's start businesses. You know, I don't do one business because like, I wouldn't enjoy that.

You've got an amazing story and I really. There's so many directions I could go right now, but I wanted to start off with being a missionary in Hungary. I wanted to talk about that, hear about that, and just some of the lessons you learned, like being a missionary and knocking on doors.

Yeah, absolutely. So I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, commonly known as the Mormons. And as most people know, we send 18 and 19 year olds out across the whole world for 18 to 24 months to serve others and to talk about our church. So I got sent to Hungary. We don't choose where we go. We just kind of fill out an application. I get a medical screening and submit it, and then we're told where we're going. And so I went to Hungary in 2006-2008.

So tell me about that. You're, you're there. What's, what's an average day look like when you're, when you're, you're canvassing, basically, right, and teaching people about, you know, you're getting a lot of doors shut in your face.

I would imagine the vast majority. Yeah. So the average day, you wake up at 6:30. Um, you will read your scriptures for a half hour or maybe even an hour, I don't remember. By yourself. And then you'll read your, your scriptures with your companion for 30 to 60 minutes. And then you'll go work out for 30 to 60 minutes. Um, maybe it's lift weights, maybe it's you go on a run and then you plan your day that takes about a half hour and then you just, you hit the streets. And that looks differently based on where you are. If you're in Provo, Utah, then you're probably not canvassing at all. You're just handling referrals from other members of the church. If you're in Budapest, Hungary, you're probably knocking doors or going to a busy city center and just approaching people on the street.

So you obviously learned Hungarian before you took off. Is that how it worked? You, you studied the language and then were sent there.

So you, everyone goes to what's called the missionary training center. There's about 15 of them worldwide, the biggest being in Provo, Utah. And that's where you learn the language, if you will be speaking a different language. And it's just where you learn how to be a missionary. And you're there for a minimum, depending on where you're going, minimum of two weeks to a maximum of. It used to be 12 and today it's closer to nine. So depending on how hard the language is, depends on that. That kind of determines how long you're in the MTC for. So I was in there for the maximum amount of time, which is 12 weeks.

And you're fluent in the language now?

I was. But you know, there are not a lot of opportunities to practice Hungarian in Dallas, Texas. I can understand it much, much better than I can speak it. I've been back to the country twice since coming home in 08 and it's tough. Like it's, it's really tough because you, you just hear it and you're like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you just go to respond and it's the, it's just like spaghetti. You can't get it out.

But so did you meet and become really close friends with Hungarians while you were there? I mean, people maybe you who, who did open their door to you and were able to listen?

Yeah, I mean, we were immersed. We. You at the time, you only called home twice per year, Christmas, Mother's Day and you would write letters or emails once per week. Today it's different. You can call home every Monday. But it was, it was different back then. And the idea was to be completely immersed. Like you are one of them. You don't have a job, you don't have hobbies. You are a full time missionary for 18 to 25.

I think I heard you say aren't more people not able to complete their assignment now? Like they, not that they become Softer, but like, it's, it's harder to complete the assignment. Is that, is that accurate to say?

Yeah, this is more of me speaking candidly and off the record as, as a, a general observer of trends in my church and just kind of a, A, a nerdy stats guy. These numbers aren't published anywhere. So I, I don't know for sure, but anecdotally, it's been pretty well documented that. Call it 10 to 20% of missionaries go home early today, whereas. And once again, I don't represent the church. These are, These numbers aren't published anywhere. I don't even know if they're true. This is just my total guess. But it used to be closer to low single digits. 1 to 5% would come over. Like, no one really knows why. I, My guess, my complete hunch is that, you know, social media and smartphones changed everything, and it's just much bigger shock to the culture and the system to go from constantly connected to not connected at all.

Yeah.

Um, and so it's actually really interesting because that trend is reversing and you're hearing much, much less. Missionaries come home early. And I think, once again, totally guessing that we're just becoming acclimated to it. Right. Like, it's, this is the new norm. And it's like. Saw this distribution curve and everyone kind of freaked out and they left their friends and they were off Instagram and off Facebook. And then now it's like the, the church has done a better job at preparing missionaries. And I think, you know, maybe five years ago, an 18 or 19 year old would leave home addicted to their phone, addicted to social media, and then that was taken away completely. Whereas now phones are so normal that that age of, you know, missionaries are actually less addicted to their phone than maybe even a millennial. Right. Like. Cause they just, they're so used to it, they're. They're better able to manage it, I should say. So when they step away from it, they're better able to manage their lives. That's just a guess.

Yeah. Yeah. So you were what, 18 to 20 when, when you did this?

19 to 21 at the time. And today it's 18 to 21.

Gotcha. And then I wanted to talk about, prior to that, you had a. I wanted to get into kind of your early hustles. You had a guy named Danny that you worked with. I want to hear about Danny and some of the lessons that you learned from him.

Yeah, Danny was a great guy. He was the father to my wrestling partner, Robert. He was From New Jersey. He was just. He was a hustler. Just a New Jersey entrepreneur. Hustler had started and owned restaurants and pest control companies, and, you name it. He was just a slick talker. Great at, you know, taking something for a dollar and selling it for two. Mm. And I worked for him. And at the time, it's just like, yep, this is my job. I push a spreader all summer. I spray houses. But then decades, you know, years later, a decade later, I look back and I was like, that's where I learned business. Like, that's like, I was immersed in business for four years. And that's why I am who I am, because of that experience with Danny.

And he had. He had, like, a unique business billboard sign. Isn't. Didn't he have, like, some kind of. Kind of funky sign up that it was voted, like, the worst whatever sign?

Eyesore in the.

The eyesore in the town?

Yeah. I was in Titusville, Florida, is where I grew up. And he had a company called Quantum Pest Control. And right there on US 1, next to the Indian river, it was a big billboard that had his logo, Quantum. And then it was just a massive toothbrush with a massive cockroach on top of it. Bristles that said got bugs. That's it. No number. Just the logo and the words got bugs. And that drove all of his business. And I just thought that was brilliant. Yeah.

And someday you may do a pest control company in the holding company.

Oh, who knows? I'm not. I'm not against any. Any company. I love all business. I wanted to, but if I did, I would. I would use that billboard for sure. Yeah.

Yeah, it was cool. It's. If people haven't seen it on Twitter, it's worth checking out. I wanted to talk to you about your writing and this woman, I think maybe in high school that inspired you. Jane Spidell. You're a really great writer, like, your content.

Thank you.

I really appreciate it and appreciate good writing. And I wanted to hear about Jane Spidell and just how you got started writing.

Thank you. I appreciate that. She was, you know, she was my yearbook advisor, and I joined yearbook just because it was another class. And she. I. I tweeted about this, but I. I had an assignment to write about a part of the school that I had to go observe for an hour. And she was very dramatic. She. She was just. I don't know. There's no other word for it. She was very dramatic. She was extra. And so I wrote this very sarcastic essay about the. The beauty of the orchestra room. And I just made it. I was just. I was being sarcastic. And she took it seriously and she loved it and it touched her. And that made me the assistant executive editor based on that one essay, which meant that I became the executive editor the. The next year, my senior year.

So that's kind of where you started to hone your craft of. Of writing.

Yeah. And then, you know, I. I started starting businesses and my writing kind of changed to be more copywriting, to convince people to buy things. And I just. I never really took a course or read a book. I just kind of learned from what I saw in ads that seemed to work and copied and changed to fit my own needs.

Yeah. So now you're doing a newsletter.

You.

You post on Twitter frequently. I wanted to hear a little bit about how Twitter has affected your career.

Yeah. So it's. I feel like I'm still in the very early days of Twitter. I've only been posting consistently there for like, 15 months. I had another stint on Twitter a few years ago. That was a completely different experience. So I have. I have a lot of experience writing or posting stuff to Twitter, but only about 15 or 16 months of doing long form, kind of intentional, thoughtful content on Twitter on my current account. And the jury's still out on what, how much of an effect it will have on my businesses. Cause I'm not really actively promoting things, but it's just brought some incredible opportunities and people into my orbit. That's. That's hard to quantify.

Nick Huber, the sweaty startup guy, he talks about writing being a superpower, and I think there's a lot of truth to that. Like, there's, for some reason people that can write. We kind of put them up on a pedestal and look at them like this guy. You know, this guy. And yeah, I. I think. I think it's a great, great skill to have, and anybody ought to develop it. It's.

Yeah.

Are you a big reader? Is that. Is that.

I. Not as much lately. I used to be, but I just haven't dedicated much time to it over the last few years. But I think what is unique about my Twitter content is a lot of times you have people that can write really well, but they're not doing. They're not actually doing things in. In life or in business that are worth writing about. Right, right. They're. They're good at putting words together. They know all the skills, they've taken a course, they've read the books, but they're just writing about kind of surface level Fluff or regurgitating stuff that they're reading in those books. And then you have people that are doing really cool things in business or in entrepreneurship, but they're not really good at writing about it or they don't care to write about it. They could be excellent writers, but they're just not on social media, which is great. More power to them. And I think I'm different in that I'm doing both. Right. I'm actually doing things. I'm starting companies, I have real experiences and I don't mind being transparent about them because there's no one to fire me. I'm not controversial, so there's no fear of getting canceled. So I'm just kind of taking actually what I'm doing and then taking some writing skills and putting them together. Yeah.

Nick had the same point that you gotta be doing interesting things in order to post good content. And I wanted to get into the companies that you're running. You've got a holding company called co founders. So tell me about that. And then just like some of the companies that are within the holding company and the one or two that you're like most excited about right now.

Yeah. So co founders is comprised of company called Mining Syndicate, which is where I'm sitting today. It is a company that sells crypto mining hardware and services like hosting and software as well. So we're basically a data center for crypto miners. But we get most of our revenue from selling the hardware, not the services. And then I have a company called Texas Snacks and we resell Buc EE's products. Buc EE's being a 50 chain kind of mega gas station. It's like the Disney of gas stations. That's a whole, you know, story in and of itself. And then I have a company called Fast Tree Care, which we started last summer with an operator. And that's just a boring old tree trimming business. That's a lot of fun. And we have a company called Volterra, which is a an AI software that helps skilled nursing facilities find more medical codes to bill for. That's pre revenue. We're about to go live with our first handful of customers. And then we own an RV park in Waco, Texas. Just a simple RV park, small one. And then we are constantly incubating slash working on three to five other projects. Some of them may never launch. Some of them could be really big businesses.

So let's go into that a little bit. I know you'll partner with MBAs and business students, things like that. Talk to me about that process. If there's somebody listening right now that is intrigued by what you're up to and wants to get involved, like how do you, how do you vet people? How do you, how do you split equity? Like how do, how does the whole thing work?

Yeah. So we art our job quote. Our position is posted on hundreds of universities across the country. And so we look for students that are entrepreneur entrepreneurs, entrepreneurial. We don't care where they live, we don't care what their GPA is, we don't care what their major is. It literally makes no difference. We just want someone that has made a dollar with entrepreneurship before. Maybe it was a lemonade stand, maybe it was a massive company. We don't even care. We just want them to have that gene. We, we can't make them an entrepreneur and we don't want to try. So they have to have the gene. Furthermore, we want them to have three qualities. We want them to be humble, just willing to learn, a sponge, moldable. We want them to be grateful, just grateful for the opportunity. We just. There's a direct correlation between kids that are really, really grateful to have been chosen and their success. Right. And then the third is energy. We want them to have high energy. They could be introverted, that's fine. I am as well. But we just want them to be excited. We want to hang up with them and then just feel energized from the conversation. So if they meet those criteria, then we give them three business ideas to choose from. We give them a salary, we give them a timeline, and we fund the idea itself. And we take majority equity in the business, maybe 51%, maybe 70%. And then we just hold their hand and we tell them exactly what to do and how to start it and be successful.

It sounds awesome. It's such a good idea. And these are all college age kids for the most part. You're not hiring people that are further along in their career. Correct?

Correct. Yeah.

Yeah. Those three qualities you listed. Warren Buffett's got a similar thing of like what he looks for in managers and leaders and it's a very similar list.

I heard that just recently and I think one or two of them, there was some overlap. Yeah, I think integrity was one.

Integrity, energy are definitely two of them. I like the, I like the humility and the gratefulness. That's just being teachable, being a learner. Yeah, those are huge. So let's go into. You had mentioned BUC EE's. I'm from Columbus, Ohio. I mentioned earlier. I, I really hadn't heard of BUC EE's up until a few months ago. And I saw it on Twitter. Maybe through you, maybe with. Maybe through Michael Gurdley. I'm not sure exactly, but tell me about Texas snacks, Buc EE's and what you're doing with, with that portion of the company.

Yeah, so Buc ee's is, like I said, it's a massive gas station. They're 60,000 square feet. They have over a hundred pumps. If you drive by one you will have remembered it. They started in Texas, they opened their first one outside of Texas and Alabama and now they're in about a dozen states or so, but opening more every quarter or two. And they're very unique. They just have an amazing brand. It's this cartoonish beaver and I don't know what they did, but they tapped into something magical to where if you go to a Buc Ees you have to talk about it. You have to fall in love with it. You and you just love it. It's just an amazing experience.

What is it about it? I mean I've never been to one obviously, so what is it about it? What have they done right, that, that taps into this customer love that gets created?

Well, I think a lot of it is, is confirmation bias. So they have a great brand and so I think a lot of people that go there have already heard about it and they've heard good things. So they're expecting a great experience. And then you know, there's a hundred gas pumps and it's just unusual. So there's just, they walk in with this wide eyed wonder and then you walk in and it's just busy. It's just got good energy. Everyone's friendly. They're known for their bathrooms. Their bathrooms are spotless, super nice. And then they, they have a full restaurant in there serving Texas barbecue and they just have a whole wall of jerky, a whole wall of candy, thousands of snacks, all like a lot of unique products or items that you couldn't find anywhere else. And it's just, it's just a great experience. That's what it is. It's an experience. It's not a gas station. It's closer to, to Disney than a gas station.

So your idea was to sell Bucky's products. So talk to me about that. Cause they originally said no to you, right?

Yeah, well, they originally ignored me and so I, I went to a Buc EE's and just out of curiosity, I pulled up their website on my phone and they didn't sell Online and that just, that boggled my mind. Um, I mean at this time they probably had 30 locations. Each location does guesstimated between like 20 and 30 million a year. So we're talking you know, half a billion dollar company plus at the time. And they didn't sell online and you go there for the snacks, but they also have all this merch, like dozens of different shirts and really, you know, cute looking clothes that particularly women love to wear. And nothing was online. And so at this time I owned a, a third party logistics company that outs that E commerce brands would outsource their fulfillment operations to us. And so I thought man, Buc EE's could be a great customer to us. So let's try to snag them. So I started emailing the executive team saying hey, we have this company called Send Eats and we can manage all of your E commerce. Well you know, White Glove, put up your website, we'll do everything for you. Let us know. No response. Crickets. And so I just thought this needs to happen. I'm going to do this myself, I'll do it for them. And so I looked into it. I was like all right, am I going to get sued here? And there's this law called first sale doctrine which states that anyone can sell whatever they want. They just can't pretend to be another brand, right? So I can resell Bucky stuff just like I can resell my iPhone. I just can't pretend to be Apple. Right. And, and so we launched a website, we called it Beaver Snacks at the time because that's their mascot is a beaver. And we put big disclaimer saying we're not Bucky's, we're buying. And then reselling their products with the market. So we, we launched, I took my family to BUC EE's. We bought one of everything. It was like two or three thousand dollars. Everyone was looking at us sideways. They didn't know what to think of us because they had never seen this before and brought it back to our warehouse, hired a photographer, took pictures of everything, put it on a website. And then I started emailing reporters and I just said, hey, this is who I am. This is what we're doing. We're launching a business. We want to get Bucky's attention. So I didn't tell reporters this, but internally I'm thinking worst case they say this is not okay, we're going to sue you. And even if they have no grounds to sue us, we'll just shut it down. Because I don't want to mess with them. Best case, they say, hey, we'll partner with you. Or best case, it's hey, we won't partner with you, but, you know, you now have a profitable company. And so I emailed reporters and I was on the phone with a lawyer. By the end of the day, the BUC EE's in house counsel. And he said, listen, we don't mind what you're doing. We have no interest in selling online. We don't mind if you do, but please make a few changes. We don't want you to use the word beaver because it's confusing. Change the name more disclaimers, make the disclaimer easier to read. And you have our blessing. So that was.

Why do you think they had no interest in doing it themselves? Seems like it's a. I don't know what the revenue would have been, but it's gotta be a decent chunk of change you're giving up.

Yeah, I think that they're trying to optimize for the in store experience. And I, I don't know this. They haven't told me this, but my hunch is that they think it would cannibalize their in store sales or incentivize people to not come to the store. Um, and I think they want the. The Buc EE's experience to stay exclusive and elusive and unique. Whereas if you can just click and order it, then it's. It's. Even if their sales go up and even if it doesn't hurt their in store sales, it's just not as much of a novelty anymore.

So you're going directly to the stores each week or a couple times a week to buy merchandise to then sell online. Is that how the logistics of it work?

Yeah. So we, we have pretty close relationships with the general managers of two different stores and then decent relationships with two other stores as well. And so we will place an order beforehand and they will receive it from their distribution center. Palletize our order, let us know when it's ready, and then we will show up. We'll make sure everything's in there, and then we'll go to the front counter with everyone else. They will kind of portion off our line our aisle, and we'll swipe that card for tens of thousands of dollars and then load it up in our box truck and drive it to the warehouse.

That's incredible.

Every week.

And this all developed because you already were doing. It's called 3pl, right. Third party logistics. You were already doing this for other food companies. Right. Like ice cream and Candy bar, whatever. You know, like you were already doing that, right?

Yeah, I mean we didn't need that. We could have done it from our house if we wanted. It just made it a lot more convenient. We already had software, we had the skills. I have an E Commerce background, so it made it a lot easier. Um, but funny enough, like after two years of doing both the Texas snacks company that we owned and the E Commerce fulfillment for other brands, we just looked at our financials every month and said man, this 3 PL stuff does not make any money. Like we are just, this is such a hard business. It's the high, high margin for error. Let's just fire our customers and only do the bucky stuff. And so we did.

So, so the company, the holding company's co founders, are you, do you have partners? I know you're partnering with the college kids that we mentioned, but do you also have a partner that you, you know, it's like you're Charlie Munger, your right hand man that, that is bouncing off these ideas and figuring out what to pursue.

Yeah. His name's Nick Hulesky and he was one of my mission companions in Hungary.

Oh, that's awesome.

Actually he was my first. So they call that your trainer. So he helped me learn Hungarian and we've been best friends for like 18 years now, ever since.

You talked about a little bit about like the entrepreneurial gene. Do you, do you think that's something that's like innate in people or do you think it can develop?

I think it could be either or for me it was developed. It doesn't run in my family at all. Uh, I just, I grew up poor and I, I, I lived across the street from a golf course and my first business was selling golf balls. Um, they would, that would land in my yard and in the ditch across the street and I would go gather em up and put em in a red Rider wagon and wash em and, and walk em to the clubhouse and sell em in the parking lot until the, the owner would yell at me.

That's awesome.

That, that was out of necessity. Cause there was no money for a yearbook or for candy or for a bike.

You had to earn it if you wanted it, right?

I had to earn it. Yeah.

Do you do that with your own kids? I'm curious.

I've got absolutely.

You do?

Yeah.

If they, if they want something, you put the onus on them to. No.

So they do chores. They all have like a chore chart and they earn money. They can buy whatever they want with that. But it's it's not like super hardcore. You know, we also buy them things. But what I was saying yes to is that all four of our kids are very entrepreneurial. My wife is entrepreneurial as well. It's just. It is in our DNA as a family. So for them, it's nature and nurture.

Right?

It was just nurture. Yeah.

And so are they working in some of the companies that you've got going? Do you put them to. To work, like, doing fulfillment from time to time?

They'll do fulfillment. Protects the snacks. Not super often. Um, but really it's more of they. They sell stuff at school and we help them with that. My daughter will make bracelets. My kids. Well, we'll go to WinCo, which is like a budget grocery store where you can buy candy by the pound, and I'll give them like a $5 budget, and we'll do competitions so they can see who can turn that $5 into the most amount of money at school by reselling the candy.

I think I heard you. You said you do something similar with like a Robin Hood account, right? Like they trade and. And you have a competition to see who can. Who can trade.

We. We did that once with crypto, actually, just for fun. And it was. It was bad timing. None of them did well.

It was when things were collapsing.

Yeah. Yeah.

But let's get into that. I wanted to hear about. You've got some great stories about John McAfee of McAfee Security fame. Very fascinating guy. I think they're. I think you had mentioned they're making a movie about his life. Tell me about how you got connected with him. And just like that entire. That entire story.

Yeah, that's. That is. That's a long story. So I'll give you the highlights. And that is 2017, crypto was just booming. Bitcoin was going from 3,000 to 20,000 over the course of two months. And I was deeply entrenched in all of that at the time. I. I first bought Bitcoin in 2016, and I'd just been curious with it. And so I had a thesis in 2017 that crypto, altcoin, specifically. So everything aside from Bitcoin and Ethereum, I had a. I had a thesis that these prices were driven by hype. And I wasn't a genius. A lot of people thought that. But my thesis was that this would be measurable.

Right.

And so I kind of developed an algorithm that took the hype of an altcoin, which was derived from how many social media mentions and you know, mentions on Twitter and on Reddit and all those platforms, I would make a hype score and I would divide it against the market cap. So if a token had a really high market cap, but no one was talking about it, then my algorithm would say short. And if, you know, it had a very low market cap, I never was talking about, it would say buy. And I put this together, and then I started tracking it, and it worked. And I thought, wow, this is. This could be huge. This is. This is really big. I found alpha. And, you know, to find alpha in the stock market is impossible. Hard to do crypto in crypto. Why not? Right. So I was a nobody on social media. I had no following. And.

And this was 2017, correct?

17. Yep. Late 2017. Good timing. And so. Yep. And so. Well, in a sense, bad timing in another sense, because it was all about to crash. But, right. I. I thought, okay, I need to reach out to John McAfee, because he was the biggest influencer on, in crypto Twitter at the time, get about 800,000 followers, and so he's notoriously unreachable. I. I tried to guess his email to. No success. Until finally I did. I used an app to see if. If he would open my emails. And he finally opened it, but he wouldn't respond. So I just kept emailing, emailing, emailing, emailing, saying, john, I've got something big I want to show you. He finally responded, and he was very critical, very, you know, standoffish, said, I don't believe you. And I said, let me show you in person. I thought if I could. If I could present in person, then he'll. He'll buy into it. So he finally said yes. He said, come to my house in Tennessee. And so I flew to Alabama. I stayed at a friend's house in northern Alabama. And then I drove up to his house, and he had said, I'll send you my address the morning of. So I started driving to his city, which is Lexington, and he wouldn't respond to my email. I didn't have his address until, like, the last minute. He gave me his address. So I showed up, and he wanted me to show up at 1:23pm and this was late February 2018 at this point. And I presented this to him, and it was a wild. It was wild. He had a whole camera crew from Australia there. He had a bodyguards, he had assault rifle rifles laying on the ground. It was everything you'd imagine. And I presented this to him, and he loved it. He understood it immediately. And he Said, what do you, what do you need from me? And we launched a company together.

It's crazy. And how did it unfold from there?

Yeah, so I asked him to tweet about me twice per week and I would give him a quarter of the profits. And the whole play was to start a free community for people that wanted access to these altcoin picks and then to, you know, once they started relying on it and investing in it and liking it, to start charging for full access to all of the pins. And so we did. We launched a discord community. It had tens of thousands of members. He would tweet about me twice per week. He did everything he said he would do. Um, we ended up launching a token and it grew to a 30 something million dollar market cap. We were listed on a dozen major exchanges. And then the market just started crashing. I mean, it was crashing the whole time, but you couldn't tell. We thought it was just dipping temporarily. Turned out to be a two year bear market and we just fought that the whole time. And so the market cap dropped. Drop, drop, drop, drop. People would leave the community and it ended up just kind of dying a slow death.

It's such a good story, actually. I, I remember that time, 2017. He could move a market with a single tweet.

Yeah, he could.

And we were.

Yeah, go ahead. We were always very careful about that. We didn't have an ico, we didn't want to sell any tokens. We didn't want him to really move the market. And he ended up getting in trouble for a lot of those tweets.

Yeah. I mean, he ended up going to prison. Right. I mean, he's since passed away, but I think. Didn't he get put in prison for tax evads?

He did.

For tax evasion.

For tax fraud. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you have any trepidation going into business with them? Were you like this guy?

I did, I did. I mean, I had trepidation about going into his house.

You seem like the antithesis of him. Like, you're this Mormon guy, right?

Yeah.

He is the exact opposite. Drinking and party, you know, like, just seems like a wild lifestyle that he's led. It just seems like there couldn't be two different partners.

We were very different. Yeah. And it. I wanted to keep it more of a, like a business owner slash influencer relationship as opposed to a business partner relationship. And so I call him a partner in the sense that there would not have been a business without him. He wasn't one of many influencers that we used as part of a strategy. He was the only distribution channel that we had. Right, right. So in that sense, he was a partner. In a literal sense, he was not. He didn't own any equity. He never invested. I never gave him money. It was just kind of a rev share agreement. But yeah, I. I did have trepidation, which is why I, I structured it like that. So I had trepidation walking into his.

House, I bet with the bodyguards and the assault rifles or whatever.

It was nerve wracking.

It had been quite, quite an experience to just, just be part of that whole scene.

Yes, it was.

So. So you've since started a bitcoin mining company. Like, how did that come about? Like, have you. Did you toss aside like all the altcoin stuff and like, you're focused strictly on bitcoin now? Because I know you're like a big bitcoin guy.

Yeah. So the crypto company died in 2019, and then in 2021, Bitcoin was booming again. It was the next cycle. Right, right. And China had banned mining in the summer of 2021 overnight. And so the difficulty rate plummeted, which meant mining became extremely profitable. Like, very, very profitable. And so all of us enterprising Americans such as myself, latched onto that and we started looking for ways to mine bitcoin. And so I started looking for facilities for places to lease that had heavy power on site. And I was striking out until I finally found a place 30 minutes from home for sale. And I reached out to the seller directly and I bought the facility from him. When I say I bought the facility, it wasn't a business. There was no llc, there were no employees. It was just a lease in a rented building that I'm sitting in right now that already had all of the infrastructure and transformers on site to enable hundreds of bitcoin miners immediately, which was very, very hard to find, especially at the time.

Did you have any miners at. At all at that point?

The facility did come with miners, so what I bought came with miners that were mining bitcoin directly. But we took that asset and we turned it into a company which is today Mining Syndicate. So we basically spent a lot of money for access to a lease and infrastructure and a handful of miners that were netting like 15 grand a month at the time. We knew that was very short lived because they were late model miners. And we, we sold the miners because we didn't want to be in the mining business. We wanted to be in the hardware and in the hosting business.

So say more about that. So how you're not selling. You aren't.

Tell me more about you don't mind bitcoin.

You don't mind bitcoin. You are selling. You're like a server, basically.

Picks and shovels. Yep.

Okay, got it.

We. We sell. So if you. Let's say you wanted to mine bitcoin.

Yep.

We would sell you a $5,000 machine which would mine you like, call it $12 a day in profit of bitcoin. And then we would sell you the electricity and the services, which would be about 200 bucks a month as well. So we make most of our money selling that machine and then we kind of break even on the hosting. So that's. That's our business.

So had you done any of your, like, mining on your own prior to this? Like, did you have any experience at all doing your own mining of bitcoin?

I had almost no experience, which never, you know, detracts me. For better or worse, I had bought two miners from eBay throughout this whole process to learn. I plugged them in. I was like, okay, I'm an expert. Right. But no, I. I didn't have much experience at all.

So what's on the horizon for. For the. I mean, let's talk a little bit more about bitcoin. I mean, is it. It's something you have strong conviction in? Do you make any price predictions in the. For this coming cycle that we're in?

Um, yeah, I can make predictions, but I've never been good at them. Um, I. To me, bitcoin is just math, which is why I like it. Yeah, it's provable scar. It's provable scarcity, which not even gold has. We think gold is scarce, but we don't know how. How scarce it is. Right, Right. So I think bitcoin is a gold replacement. Maybe not a gold killer, but just a. A superior alternative to gold that will eventually overtake gold's market cap, which would mean that bitcoin, one bitcoin would be like three or four hundred thousand dollars each. I think it's a statistical inevitability that bitcoin will hit a hundred grand and then a million dollars each. Is it going to be in months or years or decades? I don't know. I do think we'll hit a hundred grand this cycle over the next 18 months, and maybe even 150 or two. Right.

And so you. You do not trade in and out of positions with bitcoin like you. You buy, you hold, and you hodl, as they say. Right.

I'm. Yes. I'm so bad at, like, investing in stocks that. But what I am good at, though, is I'm good at never selling. And it took. It did. Took years. It did take years to learn that. So if I. If I buy a stock, I will never sell that stock. If I buy Bitcoin or Ethereum, I will never sell it, because the pain that I feel from selling too early is much greater than the pain I feel from losing money.

Right. I read wasn't one of your first investments Circuit City.

Yep, that was my first investment.

It was your first. And that was a pretty big loss, wasn't it?

At the time, it was a third of my net worth, which was a whopping 500.

Right.

So I was 21. Yeah. But I. I have. I've foregone a lot more money selling things too early. Like, when.

Mm.

The last time I did that, and the last time I will ever do that was in March of 2020 when I freaked out and I sold all my stocks. Nope. I don't like where this is going. And you name it. Like, Nvidia, Tesla, Shopify. Like, need I say more?

Yeah.

I'm like, my Tesla's already tripled. I'm gonna sell it now. Yeah. I had 8x more to go after that.

Right. Yeah. It's painful. My brother did the same thing. He panicked. And.

Yeah.

Huge upside that you end up missing out on.

Yeah, I just. I don't do that anymore. Like, I've held Bitcoin at 85% drops. Like, I. I don't sell. Yeah.

How do you deal with the volatility? Like, you know, the drop from, let's say, 60, whatever it was, 67,000 down to 15 or 16,000. How do you think about that psychologically? How does it affect you?

I. I use friction wherever I can in life. Um, so there's a lot of friction between me and being able to sell bitcoin, be it passwords, two factor authentication.

Multi sig setup or something.

All of it. Yeah. And I just don't. Like. Honestly, I. When I sold Bitcoin too early, when I sold those stocks, that was when I was more of a speculator and not a believer. And I think Bitcoin's gonna be here forever. Yeah. Right. And so I just. I would sell it to pay the mortgage or to feed my family. Like, I'm not stupid. Um, but I don't sell it. Even if it's dropping 80%, I just can't. I'm not good at timing it, and I don't want to get good at timing it. So I don't think about it, so I don't sell it.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's smart. I want to get into real estate a little bit. So talk to me about like some of your first, like your first real estate deal. How did you first get turned onto real estate? Cause I know that's one of your passions too.

I first got into real estate in 2008. Great timing. Yeah, I, I, at the time Obama instituted the first time home buyer tax credit. Do you remember that?

I do.

And it was $8,000. And he changed it eventually to be like, what was it, like a tax deduction. But in the beginning it was a check to your bank. Right. And as a 21 year old with $500 to my name, that was very attractive. And so I got home from my mission at 21 and I just felt like I could take on the world. I had all the confidence in the world. And so I started reading all the business books and all the real estate books. And I started college and I wanted to be a homeowner and I didn't have any money, so my wife and I started waiting tables. We were in Tuscaloosa, Alabama and we, seven months into marriage, we bought a three bedroom, one bath house at Tuscaloosa for $90,000. And it had been sitting on the market forever and we didn't know what we were doing. We used the same broker that was listing it, you know, to buy it. She said, oh, the sellers, the sellers won't budge on price, so don't even ask. Oh, okay, whatever you say. And like it'd been sitting for a year at the same price and they definitely would have come down on price. I didn't know what I was doing. Anyway, we bought the house, we moved into it, we got $8,000 from Obama, we took that and we bought a rental house five minutes away. And those are our first two homes.

And that has since led to mobile home parks. Right.

So that led to a third rental house. And then I moved to Dallas, Texas and I partnered with a couple guys. We bought a small RV park in Oklahoma, and then we bought 24 more mobile home and or RV parks over the next two years. We sold the portfolio in 2021 and then I started buying them with Nick, my partner at co Founders last year. And then I'm also a GP on some deals, occasionally with other partners as well.

So what is it about mobile home parks that you like, you've done? Are you doing value adds when you buy them?

I love it because it is. You're really buying land and you're maintaining the infrastructure under the land and not the houses itself, which most people don't realize that they think, oh, mobile home park, it's going to have all these maintenance issues. Yes, if you own the mobile homes. But that's not what we do. So we will buy a park and sometimes the tenants own the homes, sometimes the park owns the homes. Regardless, after closing on the park, we will give or sell the homes back to the tenants if they want them. If they don't want them, then we will give them plenty of time to move and then we, you know, we take a hit on the top line revenue. But we don't really have to manage anything after that. We just own the land and rent it out.

So is this something you're looking to add more mobile homes to your, to your portfolio or are you kind of tapped out right now?

It's kind of a passive thing. So people will DM me deals and if they're attractive, then sometimes I'll just assign them to someone else or occasionally we'll buy one ourselves. But it's not something I'm look, really looking to scale, but I'm also not avoiding it right. Right now.

So I want to hear about like an average day for you. You're creating a bunch of content. You're writing 30 or 40,000 words a week. I believe you've got all, you know, the holding company, co founders, all these businesses underneath it. How are you running like an average day for you while still maintaining a family, a wife, all of that.

Yeah. So an average day for me is I wake up at like 6 or so and I just shower and go straight to the office, one of two offices. And I just start working. Um, I drink caffeine and I just put on my AirPods, put on something in the background and I will just, I'll get to inbox zero right away. I will just knock out a to do list. I will write a long form tweet and I will just kind of, I'll kind of hop from helping my operators hop on calls with them impromptu. And I will write content, I'll write my newsletter and I, I leave my calendar pretty much empty most of the time. I just don't like structured meetings and I'll just kind of, I'll tackle fires one at a time.

Yeah.

And I'll do that until about 6pm and then I'll come home and I'll eat dinner with my family every night. Like there's Never really a reason to miss dinner. I don't travel that much. And then I'll take the boys to basketball practice. I'll usually work in the car while they're practicing. And then I come home, hang out with the kids, put them in bed. And then I'll watch something with my wife. And sometimes I'll have the computer open as I watch Love is Blind.

Tell me about Parkinson's Law. What is Parkinson's Law and how does it affect your life?

Parkinson's law states that, um, work expands to fill the time allotted to it. So, you know, back to high school, if you had a big huge project due three months from now, you're probably gonna get it done the night before and it's probably gonna be great. At least that's how I worked. Right. Um, whereas if you, if you only have an hour to do something, then you'll, you'll get it done in that hour. And so the same principle is true with Elon buying Twitter and firing 80% of people. And it just keeps going. Uh, and then the same principle is true with just taking on way too many projects and too many people or too many companies. So I just kind of let the most important things bubble their way to the surface. And if I let something slip, if I, you know, forget to do something, then that's just a message to me that it wasn't that important. Um, I'm not gonna forget my family. Right. Like that's, that's not in my work bucket.

Right.

So that's the most important. And then if there's a big fire, like an investor, we're raising money, or like that just lives in the top of my head and it will get done and everything else, like whatever my time kind of gravitate towards is what's most important. Cuz it's what I'm placing importance in. And everything else just falls to the wayside. And maybe I pick it back up in a month when it's more important then. Or maybe I never pick it back up. But I used to fight that. Right. And just really try to hone in on one thing. But this works really well for me and it's what I love doing. And honestly, it doesn't feel like work like 12 hour days every day. It's, it's no different than a 9 to 5 guy working 6 hours at the office and then fishing 6 hours if that's what he loves. Like it all feels like play to me.

Yeah. So yeah, Stephen Covey is a Mormon and he's got the Franklin Planner that I used to really be into. My wife actually is still into the Franklin Planner. She carries it around. It's like a big, massive, bigger than a telephone, old telephone book and she lives her entire life by that. Do you, is that something you utilize to like kind of structure things and keep track of things and prioritize?

No. So I, I have a very low tech system. I, I have Chrome tabs open and if it's a, if it's an open tab, then it's a to do list. I have a few Google sheets that I leave pinned in Chrome at all times that I'm always referring to. I've got my reminders app on my iPhone and then I have unread emails and unread texts and that's everything that I need to do. Um, I have a calendar, right, for like stuff like this podcast, but most days there's one or two things in my calendar. Yeah, it's, it, it, it's something that I've kind of fought thought, thought, thought for years and. But now I've just stuck with it because it works.

I want to get into idea generation. You've got a ton of ideas that you come up with, whether it's businesses or tweets that you're, you know, threads that you're writing. Talk to me about that creative process. Where, where do you come up with ideas or where do you, where's like the fertilizer, the source of, of some of these ideas come from?

I don't know. It's like I, I consider it like the 10,000 hour rule, right? Like when, when my work is my hobby and it's all that I do outside of my family, then I just see things everywhere. And I, I thought of this analogy a little while ago. I, like, I'm not a musician at all. I would like to be. I, I love music. I played the guitar a little bit, but it is my bucket list item to like have a hit song. Like, I, I think that would be awesome. But I like the thought of writing a song is just so foreign to me. Right. Whereas some people are like, I don't have ideas. Like, how do you think of these ideas? And so I think of Taylor Swift and she has hundreds of songs, maybe thousands that we don't even know about, and they just flow. She'll just see something outside and write a song and it's just because that's all she is. That's all she knows, that's all she sees and thinks about. Her brain is wired in that way. And it's trained to be wired in that way. And that's just how I am. Like I just, I don't know, I don't try to think of ideas. I don't have like a process. I just see things out there and I think I just attach like commerce to it or business to it. Like oh, this could be improved by, oh, you could monetize it like that. Like that's just how my brain works.

I, I find it fascinating. Is that why you've partnered with some of these like college and MBA students? Because you've got so many ideas that you want to pursue and you, you give them free reign and let them run with it?

Yeah, exactly. I like the fast tree care. I bought fasttreecare.com the domain like 6 years ago and I just kept renewing it. I was like that is a good domain. How is that not taken? And I had helped a friend as a favor start his tree business and it went amazingly. And so I thought, all right, that's just idea number 72 and one day the stars will align or not. And if they do, then I'll launch this business. And it did. And it's a great business and it's a great domain name and it's, it's awesome. And so co founders is a vehicle for me to plant those ideas with other people and cause you know, I, people tell me a lot like what if you just did one thing? It's like, well I do do one thing and it's start businesses. You know, I don't do one business because like I wouldn't enjoy that. Yeah.

Do you find Andrew Wilkinson of Tiny. He, I think he made the comment that it's like The Pareto's Law 8020 rule that 80% or what, 20% of your companies are generating 80% of the revenue. Do you find that to be the case?

Absolutely. Yeah.

So is that bitcoin mining? Is that Texas Snacks?

Like right now it's bitcoin mining just cause it's, it's the most established and we're selling a high ticket item. So to have a hundred thousand dollar day means we just have to sell 20 items.

Right.

That kind of makes it easier to be a bigger business. But co founders is very new. Like our, our AI startup is four months old, our RV park is eight months old. Texas snacks is old. But that's just kind of, that's like a three or four million dollars business and then Mining syndicate and then I'm probably getting about one or two. But yeah, so I, I don't know what that 80, 20 will look like right in the future, but yeah, I.

Want to kind of shift gears a little bit. You used to be a pretty heavy dude. 2 280, 2 60. 260, you said you're not that anymore. So talk to me about that process of getting into ultra marathons and losing a bunch of weight and just the training that was involved in that. You had a comment with Chris Powers, who was something about the importance of seeking out and finding hard things to do, which totally in agreement with make yourself suffer, even though, like, it goes against our grain. Tell me about the ultra marathon stuff.

Yeah, so I, I celebrated my 10 year anniversary in 2008 with my wife and I was this size when I got married. I was this exact size all throughout high school, throughout my mission. And then I, I got home and I, I got married and I just let myself go and I gained 50, 60 pounds. And my wife, bless her heart, never once said a word. She's not the type. She never said, hey, you know, watch retreating, like, what are you doing? Like, man, maybe you should work out. Never ever, ever once. Really? She just loved me. Yeah, never. And, and she never gained a pound. She had four kids.

Wow.

And like she always just lost it and then had another kid. And so she, she's the same size today that she was in high school. And so despite her never saying anything, we were on our 10 year anniversary and I just looked in the mirror and I was like, what are you doing? Like, what? Who are you? Like what? Nothing. Like there wasn't a person that made a comment. I don't know what the trigger was. It was just, I hit a point and I was like, this is, this is unsustainable. And I had, you know, I had tried over the years, half heartedly lost 20 pounds, gained it, lost 30, lost 10. And I was like, no, I'm done. And I had heard about keto, but I didn't know anything about it. And I was like, let's try that. All right. When I come home from Hawaii, our anniversary, I was like, I'm gonna start keto. So I did and I just didn't look back. I just went strict keto. I lost all the weight and I didn't really do much exercise. It was just diet. I played racquetball kind of just a little bit on the weekends. But after I lost the weight, I hit my goal weight and I was like, okay, now you gotta keep this off. I didn't want to be on keto forever. So I thought, oh, I'll just start running. So I just went outside and I don't have a background in running. I wrestled in high school, and that's it. So I just started running around the neighborhood. Um, and I'd always told myself I never ran a race. I'm kind of like the all or nothing type. And so I thought, man, it'd be cool story if my first race was a marathon. It'd just be cool to not work up to it. That. That's my. That's the extent of my thinking.

Right, right.

And so I just googled a marathon training plan. Hal Higdon. I followed it to a T. I ran a marathon two and a half months later. And then I learned what ultramarathons were. I didn't even know they existed. And I ran an ultramarathon a month after that, and then I ran 13 more over the next two years.

So an ultramarathon is. What's the shortest mileage?

50K, which is 31 miles.

And what's the longest you. What was the longest one you did?

1. 39.

139. So something like that takes how long?

35 hours. That one did straight.

Holy smokes.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Yeah, it is. It's. It's pretty crazy.

And are you. I mean, I mean, that's wild. I. I biked across America. That was like my big journey. Like.

Oh, yeah, that's pretty wild.

No, I appreciate these kind of stories, and I think they're great to seek out, but I can't imagine running whatever, 36 hours, 30, however long, you know? Like, that blows my mind, honestly.

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, it comes down to dialing in your nutrition. And I mean that while you're running, right? Like, you. You gotta learn, like, many calories you need per hour to keep going. Just like how many calories your car needs or how many. How much gas your car needs every a hundred miles. Right. And then you gotta dial in your. You gotta take electrolytes. That's the big secret. You just gotta have your salt, potassium, magnesium. And then the third is you just can't quit. Like, you just walk.

That's not an option.

You just. No, it's just not. And you. You walk a lot. So you say running, but there's in a lot of ultras. There's more walking than running.

Are you sleeping? Like, taking a little cat nap along the way, or.

People do? Yeah, no, I. I never have. People do. It's common on, like, especially multi like, hundred to two or three hundred mile races, but I've never have.

Is it something you would do that level of distance again, or is it like, one and done? Like, I did it. I proved I could do it. I don't need to do it again.

I would. I. I definitely would. I. I never quit one, which I've since learned is rare. Um, it's. It's. They have, like, a 30 to 40% dropout rate, which makes sense. But I just. On the 140 mile one, I remember being out there and, like, it was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life by far. And I wanted to quit. And I just thought, I have four kids, and they're gonna ask me why I quit. And I can't tell them, well, daddy broke his leg, or, you know, daddy got bit by a snake. I would just have to tell them it was too hard. And that was the only reason I just couldn't do it. I couldn't quit. And they. They. They would have been like, yeah, of course it's hard, but, like, I just. I couldn't stomach them remembering that even if they never did, like, I just couldn't do it.

No, it's a great example to set for them. I want to get more into your kids. You've got a daughter that had a lung transplant, and this story is really amazing. So tell me a little bit about her, the condition she had, and then what led to the lung transplant, and then we'll kind of go from there.

Yeah. She had a disease called pulmonary hypertension, which just means high blood pressure in the lungs. Extremely rare, especially if they don't. If it's idiopathic, which means the doctors don't know the cause for it. Yep. Sometimes older smokers will get it. Um, but it's very, very rare to be born with it. One in a million. And so we didn't even know she had it until she was three. She kept getting. She just kept having breathing issues. She was misdiagnosed with asthma. And then finally our pediatrician was just like, maybe it's pulmonary hypertension. And, like, that just set off this chain of events. Um, and so she was. She was diagnosed with it. We did. We'd never heard of it, and we learned it was terminal. Um, there's medication you can take. So basically what it means is the arteries in her lungs are too narrow, period. She was born that way. And so the heart works on OverDrive24.7 to push it through. So her resting heart rate was in the 120s to 150 50s.

Oh wow.

24 7. And so couldn't climb upstairs. Her lips, everyone thought she wore purple lipstick, cuz her lips are always blue. Um, and so from three to nine it just got worse. And she'd be on oxygen sometimes or sometimes she had. We were in a trial in Denver. Like we tried everything but we, you know, there's no cure. And so at age 9, she. The doctor's like, let's listen. She needs a double lung transplant. That's the only way out of this. And it's not really out of it because lungs don't last forever. Right. But it's. It was just the best option. And so we had to move to Houston to be close to the Texas Children's, which is the best, the best lung hospital in the country. And she was on the waiting list for six weeks. And we had a call late at night and we took her in and she got a lung transplant. And it's been two years almost to the day and she's been healthy ever since.

That's incredible. Super incredible. And so what. What is the ex like? Is she. Will she have to have you said there's a time limit on lung transplants. Will she have to have another one in her 20s or something like that?

So the first year is the riskiest and we got out of that. And so average lifespan of lungs is like seven to ten years.

Yeah.

Um, and so doctors will do a second transplant if all of the stars align, if, if they say it's okay. And you know, it happens in, in a minority of cases. So that's kind of the hope is a double, like a second lung transplant it some point in the future. Yeah.

Yeah. My wife's father had a. Idiopathic. Is the. The term. Right. Idiopathic lung issue. And also had a. Had a lung transplant and same thing, you know, gave him five to 10 years. And I think, you know, he was older when he had the transplant. He was in his late 60s, I think, when the transplant happened, but was able to get a lot more years than he probably otherwise would have.

Yeah. So that's interesting. Yeah, Very, very rare.

Right. I. So you since have become a donor. So talk to me about you and your wife and what you guys have done. You know, trying to give back the.

To.

To I guess thank the little boy that saved your daughter's life.

Yeah. So a month or two after she got her transplant, I learned about living organ donation, which basically means donating your A. A portion of your liver because livers actually regenerate you only have one, but it will regenerate. So donating a portion of your liver or donating one of your two kidneys or donating blood marrow. And so I learned about. I didn't even know it was a thing. I just thought you'd be, you know, an organ donor on your driver's license. And I had learned about doing it altruistically, which. Or also known as non directed, where you just give it to a stranger. Yeah. And it only happens a couple hundred times a year nationwide that people choose.

To do this, you're saying?

Yeah. There's about 4,000 kidney donations a year, and about 95% of them are to a loved one.

Okay.

The rest are non directed. So I had just felt immense gratitude to Sam, the boy who tragically died and gave my daughter his lungs. And I wanted to pay it forward. And it. It seemed like a very logical way to do it once I learned about the. How low risk of a procedure it is.

Yeah, you told me it's like a colonoscopy or a giving birth or something. Like about the same odds of about.

3 in 10,000 mortality rate.

Right. And what was the stat? I read that if just 1 in 10,000 people did this kind of kidney donation, there would be. Tell me about that. I. I don't know the exact numbers.

Yeah. So I kind of had to backend into this math myself. Once I learned it, I just like, wow. I kind of like the McAvy story. I just wanted to shout it from the rooftops. That's if one in every 10,000 healthy American adults. So not just Americans. Not just adults, but like healthy American adults were to donate their kidney, then no one would die waiting for a kidney. Whereas today, about 5,000 people a year die on the transplant list. Wow. Yeah.

And your wife also did the same procedure. You and your wife both gave a kidney and went through this process?

Yep. Just two weeks ago.

Two weeks ago, she did hers. Wow. Mm. That's incredible. So to find out more about it, tell. I think you mentioned a organization or a website.

What.

What was that?

Yeah, the National Kidney Registry.

Okay.

I think it's like NKR, something like that. Cool. Yeah. Kidneyregistry.org I'll put links in the show notes to this.

I. I'm interested in it. I. You know, I don't know that I would. I really admire people that do something like this, so. Pretty cool stuff. Before we wrap up, is there anything that we didn't touch on that you wanted to talk about?

No, I don't think so we had talked about this earlier where I'm doing this, a live call in show. I. I kind of call it the. The Dave Ramsey for entrepreneurs where I love it. Yeah, people can call in and just ask me business questions live on Twitter through tw Twitter spaces. So.

And you've done one so far. You're planning to do 10, is that what you said?

I'm going to do 10 as an experiment to see how it goes. Um, and yeah, you just. It's on Twitter at noon every Friday and you can call in through Twitter and just ask me any business question and I'll answer it live on the spot.

That's awesome. I. I think it's a great idea. How do people find you on Twitter? How can they find you elsewhere online? What's the best way for people to sign up for the spaces thing and just learn more about you?

Probably on my website. It's chrisjkerner.com K O E R N E R On Twitter. I'm mhp underscore guy as in mobile home park. Pretty active there.

Awesome. Chris, thanks so much for your time. This has been a lot of fun. I really appreciate your time today.

Absolutely. Thanks, Patrick. Thanks.