You Don’t Need a Big Idea. AI Can Clone These Giants for You

Have you heard about Cluly? The caption is genius. Cheat on everything. It goes massively viral. They're worth 120mil today. This whole experiment is three months old. Every single Cluly related piece of content gets cross posted across thousands of accounts, generating tens of millions of extra views. Here's everything you need to know about starting a massively viral clipping farm. If anyone listening wants to run my clipping campaign, email me, because I want to start doing this. I built a clone of AppFolio using AI and I know you're paying $2,300 a month. I charge 23 dol a month. They're gonna have competitors that do just as much, if not more, for 90 to 99% less. So why not let it be you? All right, dude, Please tell me you've heard about these Cluley guys. Have you heard about Cluly?

I have.

Okay, dude. So let me fill in, everyone, correct me where I'm wrong, because I don't know this exactly, but these two guys, Columbia University students, very smart. They had this business called Interview Coder. And it was just this AI tool that could help walk you through job interviews for coders, right? Through the technical aspects of it, right? So they're asking you all these complicated questions. AI is feeding you answers, so then you can regurgitate them and hopefully get the job. Then they use this on themselves to try to get a job at Amazon. They film themselves, they post it. The caption is genius. It's not ethical, but it's genius. Which is cheat on everything. It goes massively viral. It gets back to Columbia. Columbia says, you can't do this. They kick him out of school. They say, peace out. We're going to San Francisco to make a billion dollars in AI anyway. Do I have that right?

Yeah, yeah. That's the short version for sure.

What did I miss? What else is cool about these guys? Because there's a lot we can learn from it.

Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting one. I similarly have seen kind of the snippets of it on Twitter. It goes back to one of the things that ChatGPT said about your. Who you are as a human being, which is like controversy is marketing. Right? Or whatever. Whatever that line was. And I think that they just did a phenomenal job of leaning into that. I haven't tried their tool, so I can't speak to that piece. But it's one of those where it's like, yo, if you have something go viral or whatever it is, like, sometimes you just Gotta lean into it, you know. And I think that they're doing a good job of that. Then they raise like so much money also.

Yeah, they raised 5.3 million in April. That was a seed round. Then they raised a Series A of 15 million by led by Andreessen Horowitz last month and they're worth 120mil today. Like, hey, this whole experience experiment is three months old and they probably gave away 10 to 20% of their company. So these guys are worth 50 million each after three months.

As long as they can actually liquidate that and do the whole thing like on paper.

But if they do a Series B, they'll have a secondary round and pull out.

They'll for sure get the second for sure, for sure.

And unless AI is becoming unpopular in three months, that will happen.

I don't think they have much of a problem there. Yeah, I mean the. The demos of the product and all those videos, like one entertaining. Like they do a great job of leaning in, but it also looks sweet. I have not concerns but like I think at a macro outside of Clulee, like curiosities around how this AI stuff will play long term. Like almost like a dependency from people on it, right? Where it's like. It is how AI takes over. It's like AI gets you the job interview, then you use Clulee on all of your job tasks and the AI is doing all of your job for you. Like at some point the next big disruptor will just say, or cluly could. When they have enough data, they could be like, you could just fire that guy. We've been doing their job this whole time anyways, right? Like. And so it just starts to. It gets interesting on like I think about like, where does AI struggle the most? And like thinking about that as the spot to like focus more energy on getting good at. You know, there's like AI voices, right? Like, there's like bland AI. There's a handful. I think you interviewed a couple those guys, right, that like run the AI receptionists or whatever.

Yep.

One thing that I've seen AI suit like really struggle with is like salesmanship, right? Like they can be an order taker. Hey, you want an appointment for this thing? But like convincing somebody that's unsure of.

Something like going full used car salesman on them, like pulling out all the stops, right?

Like actual salesmanship of like that side. I've seen it struggle with a lot. It's getting obviously better visually. But like true creativity is going to be something that I think it struggles with. Like because it's, it's a model built off of inputs. And so like you have to be able to create something that's more than an input. And so it's just interesting to watch that of like, you watch a lot of these people jump in and they're like writing their landing pages with ChatGPT, which is cool. But like, at some point most landing pages will be written with ChatGPT, which then. What makes you stand out from that? Yeah, probably the fact that yours isn't. Yeah, right. Like, yeah, I'm curious.

I'm starting to notice things in the real world that like, very clearly aren't chatgpt. Like, I was on the subreddit for my favorite band, Brand New, and this guy was sharing his story about how his wife had a miscarriage and he went to this concert and it was beautifully written. I literally had the thought, like, Chat GP can't write this. It's like, I just know this is a real story. It just feels raw. And I feel like it's going to take a lot longer for Chat GBT to close that gap. Just like it took Elon Musk 12 years after the time he said that full self driving would be like fully autonomous. Like, we're still waiting for it, you know?

Yeah.

It's gonna take such a long time for that gap to be closed to where it's truly indistinguishable. Because I'm getting emails every day. Like, not like cold emails, but like I'm emailing with people and it's like, oh, it's just chatgpt. It's just chatgpt. It'S just so obvious.

You can just tell.

Yeah. So I feel like good writers, they're still gonna, like, they're just gonna stand out even more today, you know, but you have to tell like real stories.

Yeah. And you see it, you see it on the, on the, like the video content that we've talked about on multiple episodes. It's like you can just tell like, you're AI is not going to replace you sitting here with me talking about this stuff and the dynamicness of it and the random, you know, like, you and I will talk like, chat GPT is not going to go. It's not going to context switch. Funny. Right? Like we're talking about at the beginning. It's not going to context switch quickly based on all these other different pieces where it's like, dude, yeah, I don't think it will pull, you know, some niche learning from running direct consumer ads into a conversation around ppc. For home service the way that we, we do. Because that's just how the brain works or at least ours do. I think it would keep talking about direct consumer or whatever the actual topic at hand is. And so I wonder about that sometimes of like I think you lose some of the other inputs that impact the output.

Yeah.

I think that they don't have the breadth of it the same way that like a human with real experiences would of like. Yeah. One time my mom said something and I made me think about this ad creative differently. Like ChatGPT doesn't have that.

Yeah.

Or at least not yet. And I think that that part is. It's actual what. What I would define it as is true originality.

And on the opposite end of that spectrum, I tweeted about this but I. I found this YouTube video about Penn State wrestling and it was like a 20 minute documentary and I click on it and I start watching it and I. The voice sounds very realistic but I know it's AI. I can hear it's AI and the way it's talking, it was scripted with AI. Okay. And the only thing that's not AI is the video. This guy took B roll footage of people wrestling as he was talking. But it was so well assembled that I watched all 20 minutes of it and I loved it and I shared it and it was just kind of an unlock to me that's like we still need questions answered and there are still a lot of pockets of information out there on the Internet. Like when I run a deep research prompt in chat GPT about something, I'm genuinely interested. I. I read it verbatim. Like of course that's AI. I'm reading it in chat GPT. But that's a question I need answered. And so a lot. I completely agree with everything you said. But on the other end of that spectrum, it's like we're not going to care if it's AI in a lot of cases, a lot of situations because we're getting our question answered.

You're getting the value that you want out of it.

Yeah.

So interesting dude.

So back to Cluli. So did you see the founders post, by the way? They. They hit 7 million ARR in two months. I neglected to mention that.

Yep. Yep.

So it's, it's not just an idea. One of the founders of Cluli tweeted this and I know you're probably in this boat where when I hear stories about people like creating dozens of TikTok accounts and clipping all these things and like I have so much fomo because that is such an opportunity right now and I'm not doing any of it. Yep, so he says. So Cluly has hired over 700 clippers. And for those listening, a clipper is someone that takes long form content and they edit it down. You can use automation tools like Opus to do this, or you can do it manually and then they just post a short form video and on their.

Own accounts, on their own accounts or.

Like multiple burner accounts and nine out of 10 times, maybe 49 out of 50 times, they do nothing. They do 300 views and then sometimes they do hundreds of thousands or millions of views. So Cluli has hired over 700 clippers. Every single Cluly related piece of content gets cross posted across thousands of accounts, generating tens of millions of extra views. Here's everything you need to know about starting a massively viral clipping farm. Number one, finding clippers. I'm going to share my screen real quick, but this is like gold, gold info. So here's how this works. I make you free videos. I actually know what I'm talking about. And if you implement what I talk about, you'll make a lot more money and have a better life. And all I ask for in return is that you hit the subscribe button and maybe even the notification bell. Just like that. Thank you. As always, the answer is to scroll more scrolling on Instagram and TikTok every single time you find a clip of anything DM the account, which is like such a good framework because a lot of times it's like, where do I find good clippers? Wap has like a clipper marketplace and you go to all these marketplaces and it's, it's not good. Why not just go to the people that are doing it directly, you know? So he says DM the account paid clipping opportunity in quotations gets responded to nine out of 10 times. The people running these accounts are hungry Slovakian teenagers. 2. Pay per view, not video. We pay Clippers $0 per video. We only pay view bonuses X dollars for every thousand views. This makes sure we lose nothing from bad clippers and we only pay what we want. When you find pay them more. Same with employees. If you have a good employee, proactively pay them more. Power law exists in everything, including clippers. 1% of your clippers will generate 99% of your views. Make sure the top 1% are rewarded well and stick with you. 4. Make sure you have enough content to clip. I go on at least two podcasts weekly now. It's Interesting. He's not spreading his gospel with the podcast. He's just doing it as a. As a way, a convenient way to record video for all these clippers.

It's input every.

Everyone at Cluli creates content. Our clippers clip everything. The biggest reason not to have 400 clippers is because you don't have 400 clips a day to post. Make more content. 5. Tracking ROI. Don't do it. Clipping is cheap and its value isn't in direct product roi. It's in squeezing all virality out of potentially viral moments. Everyone has made a single post that flopped. Posting it 699 more times will make sure you get the virality it deserves. Clipping is only relevant for YouTube shorts, TikTok, Instagram, where we will start focusing our efforts. We've done 100 million views in a matter of weeks and scaling. I believe you can speedrun your way to Mr. Beast with enough money. And clearly we can't stop making money.

It's so good.

Dude, what are your thoughts on this?

Oh, it's huge. Content creators are obviously the easiest to do that for, right? Because you're just. It's an impression game, right? You're just trying to get top of funnel awareness across the board. I'm in a couple communities for clippers to see the types of deals that come through those. And it's like more people are doing it than you would think. Like. Cause I get the emails every time there's a new. I signed up as a clipper to see who was paying what to like have this done.

You're a Los Angeles Clipper. What are you gonna say?

That's it, dude, you know, go Lakers though. But yes, I. And so I've been like. A lot of it has been podcasters, right, that are like going and trying to just go. It's impression farming across the board. The other piece that I've been seeing people do it in is direct consumer brands, right? Because your, your CPM on those is drastically lower than what you can achieve through paid channels. The biggest hurdle that those brands run into is amount of input content, right? Because like easy for a podcast to have enough content to clip branded content. There's not a lot of long form, you know, style stuff, talking about independent products and all of those. And so like, that's where I've seen more of the lift being required on the brand side. But yeah, I mean the clipper game is. There's a bunch of people very focused on it because it is, it's organic on steroids. It's just like, oh, you can actually have 400 accounts that are all like your account, but not actually, you know.

Why aren't I clipping for my podcast? Like, what am I doing?

You actually need to.

Stephen Bartlett credits like most of his podcast growth to that. And he's gotten so analytical with it that he has a button underneath his desk, like while he's interviewing someone about whatever, and he presses a button during an interesting moment and he's basically telling the Clippers, this is a good one. This is a banger. At least he thinks it is. In addition, in his interview prep, he will prep questions like, solely designed to engineer a response that's viral, a bull and clippable. And he's one of the top podcasts in the world.

And it's not even for a good reason. I mean, there's a little, there's a little mark button on the bottom of this Riverside thing for.

I know, I use it. I do use it.

Yeah.

But it's like, it's not super. Like, I don't engineer any questions that would elicit a viral response. We just bro down and maybe this podcast would be less good if I did that. Maybe it would be more good. I don't know.

Yeah, I think keep it what it is. I think there's good moments that come out of it. I think it's worth going and trying to get them to do it.

Yeah.

Like, again, it's a cost arbitrage experiment through and through. Like, it's not going to cost you any money unless you get views. So, like, why not?

I think it's. It's also very interesting because when I read those bullet points about Cluly and their success. 7 million ARR, 3 months old, 9 figure valuation. You just think, oh, they got lucky. It's AI. Oh, it's just AI. Oh, just picking. You know, it's like blockchain. Just put the word blockchain in your name and raise a hundred million dollars. And there's a lot of that going on. But then I read, oh, these guys have hired 700. Yeah, they're not, you know, you use the word hired loosely. Right. They've DM'd hundreds and thousands of people. But that's a strategy and it takes a lot of discipline to pay these randos in Slovakia thousands of dollars. When you don't, there's no link to click. You don't know what it's doing for you. You just have to kind of feel it. Like the age old quote is 50% of marketing works you just don't know which 50% it is. Right?

Yeah, 100%.

The good thing with podcast is, like, this thing is so predictable. Like, I can guess when I wake up and I look at my downloads, I can guess within 5% how many downloads I'll get that day. Because they don't. Podcasts don't go viral. Right. So if I were to start clipping, I start to see this unexpected growth. It can't be coming from anywhere else.

We talk a lot about, like, just lift, right? Like, versus, like, if you're doing a channel on some of, like, our Amazon brands. Right. Like, we don't change a single thing on Amazon, but we spend more money direct to consumer. And we see Lyft.

Yeah.

On Amazon. And like, we just call it, like, broadly, we call it the halo effect. Right. Of, like, similarly, you go and you go and just put yourself out there on 100 million views across 600 clippers over the course of six to 12 months. And, like, you are now growing at, you know, 18% month over month instead of 12%. It's like, you can't directly attribute that. Sure. But, like, there's lift. And so you know what you changed? Like, you didn't increase ad spend by 50%. Like, something has to be doing that. And so a lot of it is like, yeah, incremental lift is how we would measure, like, your billboard. The billboard is a great, A great example of that. It's like, you don't have a tangible QR code on that billboard, but you can see Lyft in a specific demo.

And I got so much crap for it on Twitter, they're like, dude, you're an idiot. What? First of all, Clear Channel does not allow QR codes on billboards because they don't want people doing this as they drive. Second of all, it's not like I saw Houston, the city where the billboard was, go from my sixth biggest market to my first biggest market. Whereas those top five cities never change. Right? So it's like, pretty sure. It's funny how oftentimes, like, opposite advice is both is always correct, right? I don't like spending marketing where I. That I can't track. That's what makes a billboard hard for me to swallow. That's probably the reason why I haven't paid people to do clipping yet, because I can't track it as cleanly as I can on a Facebook ad. So it's like, and I've heard gurus, and I've said this myself, like, only spend on marketing. That you can track, right? And you drive around the country and you're like, why does Coca Cola pay for 10,000 billboards? Does that do anything for them? You know, it's like, well, Coca Cola is probably smarter than I am. But, you know, in a lot of cases, in certain industries, certain campaigns, and it doesn't make sense to do marketing that you can't track. But then in other cases, you've got to, like, take the situation not at face value and look into it a little deeper and say, you know what? I'm going to take 10 grand and I'm going to send it to a bunch of Slovakian teenagers, and I'm just going to hope and pray that my SaaS subscriptions go up or my downloads go up. And if it doesn't, then it's a $10,000 tuition that I just paid to Slovakia. Right?

Yep. I'm a fan. I'm always like, I like movement. Even if we don't know what the answer is. It's like, I don't know. I always push for that.

It's.

It's the classic, like, action. Just take action. We've had this conversation every single time that I'm on the pod. Like, you're not going to know until you do something. We can sit here and hypothesize about it all day, but, like, and then we do it, and then it's like, oh, we actually saw no lift from this. Or we saw a little bit of lift. Oh, how can we do this better? It was enough. That's interesting. Like, instead of, should we do clipping as the thought that's on our brain or the question that we're thinking about all day, it's, oh, how do I get Clipper A to do better? Because he's the one, right? Like, you just change the question that you're asking yourself. And I see people get caught in that with the business ideas. They spend all their time being like, I could do this, I could do that. What about this idea? What about. And they're all. They're having the same thought process over and over and over again versus, you know, like, people in the grow faster community jump in. And I'm like, go run ads right now. Like, I don't care. Whatever is on your mind, whatever you're thinking about today, it doesn't have to be a good idea, bad idea. We don't know. Just go run some ads. Because you're going to come back to me next week on the live office hours, and you're going to say, I Ran ads. This was my cost per click. Nobody booked a call. Why did nobody book a call? Oh, yep, got it. Look it, you're thinking about something else now. You're not thinking about what idea I should do. You're thinking about how do I get somebody of these 150 people that clicked on my ad to schedule a call. You're like, you, you're not thinking about the same thing. It's like just making the movement happen. And so it's the same with the clippers. It's like, yeah, go, you can think about launching a podcast, but like just go launch one. Yeah, like, go hire five clippers, bro. Because then you'll have a different. We won't have this conversation of should I be doing clipping? It's like you'll know. You'll be like, yeah, I should or shouldn't be doing this, or I should be doing it a different way. Or they need this type of content so I can create. Right. Like, I wonder what happens if those guys, you, you just give them all your short form content. Like, why do you have to give them the long form, give them the short form and let them clip all that? Those are more viral vibes anyways. Like, yeah, actually you, you have that guy in whatever country he's in that just reposts your videos in a different language. And you've seen how well he's done. Yeah, that's clipping. He's a clipper.

Hindi. Yeah, right.

Like he's a clipper.

Yeah.

And instead of being mad about it, maybe you're sitting there like, wait a sec, dude, maybe I am getting some.

Well, I post my videos in Hindi now.

Yeah, because we talked about it.

Yeah, I know we did. And I'm doing it every single day. But I'm not getting any views on these things. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Dude, he's got that Hindi IP address.

I know, I know.

You should hit him up. You should hit him up and say, probably should. I will pay you X number of dollars per thousand views. But I just need you to put the link to my podcast in your link in bio.

Yeah.

And I wonder if he would make more money by being your first clipper than he's making doing whatever he's doing posting your content.

Anyways, I've thought about doing something similar. I've thought of going to the guys that copy me in English and saying, I'll give you 10 cents for every newsletter subscriber that you get and I'll use UTM parameters. So I know. Just put my link in your bio.

Yeah, like, they're already doing it. You might as well incentivize it. Like, yeah, yeah, go post my stuff. Like, I hope there's a thousand accounts that post my stuff. As long as I'm seeing lift on what I'm doing in a way that from a cost perspective makes sense. Who's mad?

One of the guys that copies me has 500,000 followers and he stopped posting entirely. And I kind of want to, like, buy his account or something.

You should. Yeah. And hire a Slovakian teenager to run it.

If anyone listening wants to run my clipping campaign, email me, Chris co founders.com because I want to start doing this.

Yeah, there you go. I'll send you an email right now.

I'm going to just pose an opportunity to you, and I want you to come up with a business idea for it on the fly, no prep. All right, so I'm going to share my screen guy in my community. So tkowners.com his name's Al. He sent me this email and he says, hey, in my city, which I think is Baton Rouge, Louisiana, they publicly post all of the new business listings on the website. And he basically said, like, what would you do with this? What business could you start around this? So I'm sharing my screen of the April 2025 new business listings. Pristine, clean. Ava Cafe Specialty, Hospital Bay's Oyster Bar. These are local businesses. What kind of agent or SaaS product or vibe coding product could we build that leverages these? Because surely there's a lot more cities than just Baton Rouge, Louisiana, doing this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

These are business owners that either have money or are expecting to spend money. Right. On stuff.

Yeah. I mean, it comes. The first question I always ask when people bring stuff like this to me is like, what do you want out of it? Right? And so, like, do you want to go launch a software business on the back of this? Do you want to just maximize this for income? Do you want to create enterprise value? Right. Like, you got to build a little bit of a box for yourself. Right. If your goal is make as much money as possible in the shortest amount of time as possible off of something like this, you're talking about a service business. If it's for a business that just started, you're like, it's marketing. Like, yeah, lead gen forever will be a service that you can sell is like, we help you get more customers in whatever vehicle you want. You just use that list as a unique angle to get in the Door, right? Or you go, you go one layer deeper, right? And instead of starting the service agency yourself, you take those and you sell them as leads to other service businesses.

We're thinking the exact same thing.

Yeah, you go take every new business and you can do that. You, I mean most secretary of states, like Texas is notorious for it. Like you see all those guys, like the moment that you file for an entity in Texas, there's companies that will send out automatic like mailer direct mail campaigns to the address saying, hey, for $99, we'll claim your ein for you or your right, whatever that is. And it's like, dude, you can get your ein for free. But like most people don't know what to do with that.

Yeah, I had an employee pay $80 once because she got a letter that said, hey, you're registered in the state of Alabama, but you don't have your workforce posters up on the wall showing like what your employees rights are. You need to buy those for $80. So she just wrote them a check and they arrived. I'm like, what are you doing? We get those for free. That's a scammer. But it's smart. I respect that scammer.

Like they're playing the game, but what.

They'Re doing wrong is they're doing, they need to go one step further. They're doing the lazy route because if you remember when I shared my screen, all they provide are the name of the business and the address. They're just scraping the address and they're sending the generic mailer to it. What you need to do this is what I think someone should do is go to repl.it or whatever and vibe code an agent that scrapes this every morning and it just plugs in like, hey, John's Restaurant LLC just opened in Plugin city name Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I really need John's email. I need you to find his email, whatever you can go to LinkedIn, go to Manta, find his email, send him this cold email. Hey, John, I do marketing for insert industry name here. Can we hop on a quick call to where I can help you get more customers? And then so you send out a hundred emails every morning. I do marketing for salons, I do marketing for coffee shops. I do marketing for whatever. And so it feels real to them, it's relevant to them. It has their first name, it's going to their email. You're not competing in a seed in the direct mail. Yeah, exactly, because these guys go check the mail for the next month and they see 10 things that are all the same, so they all go in the trash. But if you show up in their email or in their text, then you'll stand out. And then you can either start a $2,000 a month marketing agency or you can sell Those leads for 50 bucks per call to local $2,000 a month marketing agencies.

Yep. The difference between the 2000 or the selling it of $50 is a matter of scale and speed to significant income. That's always what I tell people is like making $10,000 a month on your own is a lot easier if you're selling a higher ticket product. Software generally is not that. And so like you might want to jump into software that's sexy, fun, cool, whatever. But if your true goal, like at your core, is to not work a 9 to 5 or replace your income or hit a specific income target services, the easiest way to make that happen. And again, it like gets the ball rolling. It's like every service, not every single one, but most of the service businesses that I've been involved with have stepped into software after because like that's just the natural progression. And so like I would go be the $2,000 a month agency. If you're just starting from scratch and you have that data, I would just be the agency and then start just making money. Like, prove to yourself you can do that.

Quick question. What if there were a private community out there of people that were building businesses based on this podcast? Well, I just made it and it's only for business starters. And business builders. It's called TK Owners and it's basically like having me and a hundred other business geniuses as your business partner, but you give them 0% equity. Also, there's going to be exclusive new trends, growth hacks, business ideas, and a database of everything I've ever talked about. You'll find thousands of startup case studies. You'll have weekly ask me anythings with me while I'll answer your questions directly. You'll be in my Slack channel where I'm hanging out every week and helping members one on one. We've got exclusive guest speakers, including some names that you'll recognize. And if you're building something cool, I'll introduce you to anyone you need. TK Owners is the fastest way to plug into a smart, ambitious group of builders and accountability partners that are sharing wins without the fluff. And it's 99 bucks a month about the cost of an energy drink per day. You can join now@tkowners.com link in the show notes. Dude, I'VE got another agent idea for you. You ready?

Yeah, always.

Two companies, huge companies. Rentmanager.com appfolio.com. they're just, they're CRMs and rent collectors for landlords, property managers. Okay. And they are so expensive. You go to their website and it's like, click, you know, call us for pricing.

Enterprise schedule. Demo.

Schedule a demo. Or they charge per door. It's five bucks per month per door. And it's like to you and I, we've got a three or four rental properties, whatever. But for a lot of companies, that's thousands of dollars a month. And what do they do? It's. It's just software that can now be. Okay. Yep. So someone listening to this, someone within the sound of my voice do exactly this. Dude, you go to built with bill with dot com. 450 bucks a month. Don't spend that. Go to upwork dot com, little post, free post. You've spent zero dollars. Say, I need a built with export of all of the Appfolio and rent manager websites. And you can get this. I've checked on Built with because they use subdomains, right? You go to pay your rent, you go to appfolio johnsrentalhomes.com, right?

Yep.

Very easy to scrape this list. Boom. Now you have all of their customers. Okay. And then you just start a cold emailing campaign and you say, hey, I see you use appfolio. I built a clone of AppFolio using AI. And I know you're paying $2,300 a month. I charge $23 a month for unlimited units. Unlimited. Like that's what's going to happen with Vibe. Coding and AI is the sales forces of the world. The Oracles, these big stodgy companies that charge way too much because they can, because coding is hard, or at least it was until a year ago. They are going to get disrupted out the yin yang. They're going to have competitors that do just as much, if not more, for 90 to 99% less. So why not let it be you? That's my rant.

A hundred percent. Yeah. No, you're on. You're. You're spot on. I mean, like I see it, there's. I forget the guy's name. There's a guy on Twitter that did it where he was doing that for buzzsprout or like, any of the social media scheduling apps. Oh, his company's called Post Bridge.

Post Bridge.

I forget his name, but it's Post. I think it's postbridge.com and that's basically his entire business model was like, it's like buffer. Okay, yeah, buffer. Like any of those. Like, and it's just social media scheduling and it's way cheaper.

These are commodities now. CRMs are commodities.

Yep.

Social media scheduling, calendly, that's a commodity. Like a year ago these were proprietary IP driven assets. Today they are replicable commodities.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that, I mean we've seen it happen with internal tooling right now with AI just like it's the arc that continues to be of like internal tools or softwares that we would have been paying for. And especially on companies that are bigger, that are spending $2 million a year on Salesforce, that are spending $82,000 a month on appfolio where like you can come in and you don't even have to go from $2,200 to $22 a month. You could even go to $220 a month. Right. And mathematically they're still good. And so yeah, I think that that will be a very interesting macro trend. I'm curious how that impacts stock. Like the stock markets. I know, right? Like that'll be.

They're not going out like they're too entrenched. Right. Like if you're a billion dollar company, it's still way too much work to go swap to something a little cheaper. Right.

But they're going to lose the lower and lower mid markets that like, I don't know if it was you or somebody else was talking about their buddy that like rebuilt something for them and like charged his own business, like the company that he worked for. He rebuilt their CRM or whatever it was and saved them a bunch of money and then like got paid as the service, like as the SaaS guy, as this new software that he built. And it's like I see that happening more and more and more. Like it forces the incumbents to like really double down on. Which I think transparently is what I think will end up happening is I don't think that the sales forces of the world are dumb. I think that they will just say, hey, we are launching an AI copilot for Salesforce. Right. That allows for you to make all these customizations and stuff a little bit easier. Right. Like they're going to have to react in some way the pricing. Like price becomes the biggest, you clone and charge less. Right. Like price is then your value prop. I think the slippery slope of that is it's literally a race to the bottom.

Agree.

Like an absolute race.

If you can capture that first batch of 23amonth customers. They're never going to leave you for something that's 19.

They're not gonna. Yeah, they're gonna. It's sticky. It's like the. The rate of diminishing returns. Like, they're not gonna leave to save $4.

Right. Look what I'm doing right here.

Hit it.

Yeah, no, they would, they would. But there is a floor to it somewhere.

Yeah.

All right. For those listening only, I went to G2.com, which is the website for software reviews. And it's just such a good website to mine data. And nowadays we don't have to do this ourselves anymore. We can use AI. So I went to G2 and I went to software, I went to Sales Tools, I went to CRMs, and of course, Salesforce is number one. They have 23,360 reviews. Salesforce Sales Cloud. Okay. I took the URL, copied it, and then I'm going to go to Manus, which is what I use for just doing, like, quick one off agent tasks. Okay. And this is. I think I have the $20 a month account. Nothing too crazy. And I'm going to paste the URL in here and I click the little agent button and I'm going to say, I want you to find all of the features of Salesforce that get referenced the most in a positive way. So you can do one of two approaches. The surface level is like, I want to find all the complaints that people have about Salesforce, so I can fix all that. Now I want to find the. You know, because Salesforce has 1800,000 million features, I want to find the five that everyone's talking about, because that means it's the five features that everyone uses. It's funny because, like, these companies pay thousands of dollars a month for Salesforce, and most of their employees are just using it to search by email address. They just want to know their customer's email address. Right? So I just want to know, like, what are those three Salesforce features that everyone uses the most basic ones? Because then I'm going to build a really lightweight Salesforce alternative that only has those three features. Yes, we can feature creep later. We can add whatever we want later. But, like, it's a feature, not a bug of us having less features, if that makes sense. So I'm going to say I want you to find all the features of Salesforce that get referenced that the most in a positive way. And then it'll just get to work. It's scraping and it'll go to page Two, it'll go to page three and then it will tell us like, what type of CRM to build. What would you do here differently?

No, I. Dude, I was just thinking that, like, we talk a lot about pros and cons of AI, but also, dude, I just love AI. It's just, it's just so awesome.

It's just amazing.

Oh, got to get the verification. There you go.

That's all right. It will handle the errors on its own. You have to reply, dude, I'm using. Have you heard of Quora CORA computer?

I don't think so.

It's an email agent and they were invite only. Now they're open to everyone. It summarizes your emails. It's finally the email agent that can like learn from how you email and then it will draft them and then you can choose to send them or not. Anyway, Lindy does something similar and I'm using both of them in my inbox today to just summarize my emails. And I was joking with Kamal that like they were fighting and like, I was thinking like, we're probably not too far away when like we have competing agents that are like going and canceling each other's like monthly.

Yeah, yeah, like we're not down, dude. Yeah, it's like, did you know you could save this many dollars by canceling Lindy? Dude, I'll just do all that work for you, dude.

That's a whole other business. Imagine embedding yourself in a company with ten hundred thousand employees and saying, hey, I'm going to install AI agents on all your inboxes so your employees spend an hour less per day emailing and you just install a $10 a month software for them. That's it.

Yeah, it's like the role of all the integration specialists at the software companies, right? Like you go buy an enterprise plan from, I don't know, like a Superhuman or a Quora or. Right. Like any of those types of tools and they're like, yeah, we're going to help you roll this out with all of the team members and all of that. It's the same like as the race to the bottom happens, I think that there's a world like that was the bet that we made with unlimited content. Right? Like the individual components of AI, technical writing and backlinks are all getting commoditized via AI tools, right? Search Atlas, AI Auto. Really good. There's 9 million blog writing tools. Backlinks, as we talked about before, is like the own, its own thing. It's just like pay to play and that's what we aligned ourselves to is, like, cool. We know that our costs as an agency to fulfill on these services are getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. Let's align ourselves as the service provider on top of those, knowing that the market knows that where we're not selling, we're not selling the fact that we have like some secret sauce that you couldn't access. It's like, no, no, no. We're using all of these tools. We're going to save you the time. And if you were to go and do this yourself, you would spend the same amount of money that you pay us to do it. We have economies of scale and expertise. Can we align ourselves to that a little bit more directly versus, like, going out here and being like, oh, $2,000 a month SEO agency. We don't tell you what we do. Like, no, no, no. We're using the best tools on the market. We tell you that it's why we charge $500 a month, not 2,000. Because we're just the operator sitting on top of that, being strategic, using the tools for you. And so, like, I don't know, I've just, I've. I've been thinking about that more and more as all of this happens of like, there is this kind of microservice layer on top of this AI stuff of the people that don't either do not have the time nor the desire to learn how to use the tools, but know that they can leverage them. And just aligning your price point to that better where, like, we're super sticky now because, like, we're not $2,000 a month. You're not looking at us like, to. We're, yeah, 30 grand a year on this agency. Like, I saw this AI tool can do it for 99 bucks a month. And it's like, no, no, no.

Yeah.

Oh, the guys at Unlimited are using that tool and this tool and this tool. And I'm only getting charged 500amonth. Like, it's the transparency thing. Like, the world is moving in the, in the way of transparency. You can't hide anymore. You don't, you don't want to.

It's like a parent saying, I don't want to talk to my kids about porn or, or drugs, because then they're gonna go, that's gonna give me the idea to go shoot guns and look at porn. It's like, dude, you gotta get ahead of it. It's a matter if not when.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, I don't want to talk to my Customers about these AI alternatives because then there's. You gotta embrace those alternatives because they're about to embrace them from someone and they'd rather do it with a party that they already work with. Know and trust.

Yep, might as well. Literally our game. Yeah, to a T. Okay.

Sour drinks, I'm gonna call it right now. I'm starting to see it.

You think it's up into the right?

Dude, this is what Google trends shows. I mean it's slow, but why not?

What are the spikes, dude? What are those spikes every year? Is it always like, dude, April comes around and people get on their little sour kick. They're like, dude, it's summer, let's get source.

Dude, here's, here's an idea. I want to buy Celsius or ghost energy drinks that don't have caffeine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent, dude. So there's. There's a brand based out of Sweden called Noco. N O C C O. They have caffeinated versions and then they have non caffeinated that have BCAAs in them. The amino acids. They actually have a green apple that is. Oh, phenomenal, dude.

Sour Green apple soda is so good. I. I bought some ingredients on Amazon. I'm gonna start messing around with sour drinks. I'm gonna make a sour busy juice.

Yeah.

Some citric acid and some malic acid. That's all you need.

All I'm saying, sell it as a mix.

I know for sure.

So much for sure. It's only dry goods, dude. That's what I've. That's what I've.

Yep.

Learned.

What would you know about selling bag powders on the Internet?

Look, dude, every, every soda is just sugar water, dude. You know what I mean? It's all the same thing.

Speaking of sugar water, any update there?

I told you, I ran to the supply chain issues and all of that. I bought the mini bags. I've been getting repeat orders off of the QR code on the back of the bag. And so like, you know, maybe a couple times a week I'll get a little 68 bucks. I had a hundred dollar purchase two days ago, dude. Off a repeat buyer. They bought three bags in April and then bought six bags and you'll love it. And my book, Hundred Dollar AOV Dude. Gotta get the book, dude. Hummingbird Attraction 101.

If for no other reason, you can't let this business die because it's my third most viewed YouTube video of all time.

It's never gonna die.

50,000 views.

I'm really excited to get on the pod 12 months from now.

Okay.

Because I started this one, like, right at the very beginning of hummingbird season, right? And so, like, I had to work through the kinks during the busy season. Now I've got kinks ironed out, dude, and I'm ready for next year.

I have some bad news for you. This is going to keep you up all night. This guy tagged me on Instagram, and it's called Hummingbird Hype Fuel.

Hell, yeah.

And I have to imagine, since he tagged me on this, he learned about this from the pod. So you're inspiring some competitors here.

That's fine.

You're gonna go broke, man.

I know. It's all good, dude. I love competition. Yeah, no, it's all good. I think more people should. Market share is big, dude. The market's big. Like I was saying, we went up to Sequoia national park for the 4th, and we stayed at this Airbnb, like, I don't know, an hour and a half outside the park. And it was like, I'm talking the middle of nowhere. There was one. One commercial facility that was the bar, the restaurant, the general store, the. All of it. And I walk in there, dude, and they've got. I'm talking this. This place stocks, like, one box of Raisin Bran, right? Like, limited inventory. You know what they did have, though? Hummingbird nectar. I was like, catch me. Catch me up here, dude. Camp Nelson.

That's California.

I'll be up here.

Not.

All good. I'm gonna make it happen.

All right, well, we'll follow up. Every time you're on. I'm gonna ask you.

All good. I mean, it'll be pretty boring, I think, in the winter, but I don't know. I'm gonna play with it, dude.

Not to jump around too much. There are a few TikTok accounts or a few companies on TikTok growing like crazy and their whole n, like, extremely sour homemade candy.

Yeah.

So. And they're. They've got hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers. And people get the reaction videos when they try it.

Yep.

Who's doing that for shippable powders? Like, it would be even easier to ship than count than 100.

Yeah. Like, I'm a big fan of form factor.

Right.

Like. Like, when I think about business ideas.

And stuff or changing form factors. Yeah.

Where it's like, you sell protein. Right. Loosely. But, like, inside of that, you have protein powders, protein shakes, protein drinks, protein bars, protein gummies. Right. Like, you have all of these form factors, and I think that there's like, you could go. I mean, you see it with, with creatine, right? With tricreate.com phenomenal product where he was just like all he did. And we've talked about this before, right? It's like all he did really was like, change the form factor of creatine. It was always sold as a powder that you added to smoothies or drinks. And he was like gummies, right? And it's like he's not selling anything new. He's still selling creatine. Just the form factor of that is a little bit different.

So video is cool. But you know what's better? Long form audio via podcast and my newsletter, tkopod.com go there to subscribe for free to my newsletter. It's one email a week. Very tactical. And then go to my audio podcast. Three episodes a week. Stuff like this. You're gonna love it. All free. No sleazy sales pitch.

Tkopod.com I've just been thinking about that a lot of like, you know, people put pressure on themselves to like, come up with this like, genius new business idea, right? Because you start, you. When you're coming up in entrepreneurship, you're looking at the, the Zucks. You're looking at Elon. You're looking at these like, I'm going to call them inventors more than entrepreneurs, right? Like inventors, like versus, like business guys that like took something that people are buying and operated a better business around a specific thing. And I think there's tons of those little form factor type offshoots of existing things that people can go and jump on really easily. Like, because you're not reinventing the wheel, you're just changing. Maybe you are reinventing the wheel. No, not really. You're just like, you're, you're adding. You're like, my wheel has four spokes instead of six, dude. You know, it's like. But it's still a wheel, right?

Did you see that, like, hands free toothbrush that they're selling?

Yeah. On social media.

Yeah. They have like tens of millions of dollars of sales. Yeah.

I have zero.

Everyone uses a toothbrush. Hopefully. I mean, maybe not in Alabama, but outside of Alabama, everyone uses a toothbrush.

I've heard rumors about North Dakota too.

I don't know. And it's just they're changing the form factor. And then these other guys, direct to consumer guys took toothpaste and they just turned it into like, like a chewable. And it's like, oh, yeah, you don't have time to brush your teeth. Let's do the 80. 20 of brushing teeth and just chew this.

Yeah, 100. It's just form factor. What was that? Is that bites? Is that.

I think so. Bites.

Did that. Yeah. Again. Yeah, it's toothpaste, dude. They just changed. It's. I mean, Neurogum is another phenomenal example of that. Like, it's caffeinated gum. Like they're still. They're selling the same thing that Red Bull is selling. It's just gum.

Right.

There's another dude that's doing caffeinated. I don't know if it's a chocolate bar or a protein bar. I forget the name of it now, but it's the same thing. It's like, yeah, just like a little something special in this same form factor that people buy on a different use case that they want. Game over.

Well, dude, have you heard of run gum?

You and I talked about it before.

Yeah, best name ever. Exactly what we're talking about. It's just gum with caffeine for running. Guess what their sales are? $28 million.

Yeah.

I mean, and you can get a co packer to make that for you for sure. Go find a company on Thomas Net that makes gum and say, hey, throw 22 milligrams of caffeine in there for sure. And then you go find a packager.

Yeah, it's like the big. What's the big Kodiak cakes.

Yep. Right.

That's a protein pancake. Mixes protein business.

Right.

It's like they still sell pancakes, bro. But it's. I like looking at opportunity kind of through that lens a little bit where it's like, what else is. Is a form factor thing. I think about it on. On even on services. Like one thing that we're starting to. To do on like the backlinks, like an SEO backlink side is like backlinks traditionally are like, I'm not gonna say hard to get, but you have to like, know what you're doing to go and get them, right? Like, you got to go to the right suppliers. It's easy to get screwed on a fiver where someone's like, I'll get you 500 backlinks for 6 cents. And it's like, dude, they're low quality. Right? Like all of that. And then the way that you normally would go about procuring good backlinks is through an agency, right. Which you're either paying a heavy retainer on or a markup really on those. And it's like, dude, why can't. Why can't you just buy backlinks on a Shopify store, right? Like, why can't you just log in? And we buy a lot of backlinks for all of our clients. And we deal with the pain of going to 97 different providers, of which one provider could have six good backlinks and three bad backlinks. And like, we've done that. Like, we've spent the money to know all of those pieces. I was like, dude, what happens if I just put it all in one? And it's like, okay, it's just different form factor. You know what I mean?

I like this. I like this. All right, two ideas for you. Sub ideas. Number one, you just. It's literally a Shopify store, as if you're looking at a merch store. And. And it's. It's backlinks, but you reveal what the backlink is. I understand the risk in that, that someone will circumvent you, but they don't know the person to reach out to at the company. For instance, I got an email today from a follower and that said, hey, check out this article about Buc EE's in Barron's. Barron's news, like Barrons.com and he's like, they, they mentioned you. And I clicked on the article and they linked to us like five times in an article. They have these products and these products and they sell Buc EE's because they don't sell online. And then I go to moz.com free domain authority checker and I type in barrons.com 89 domain authority out of a hundred. And it just came. I didn't ask for it. So to your point, there's a Shopify store and this would be hard, right? I'm not saying this would be easy. It's hard to get backlinks. But once you have someone at a company, are they large or small to provide backlinks, then you can have that person give you all kinds of backlinks. So you say, all right, now I got a guy at Barron's. He might not say yes to everything. If he doesn't say yes, then you refund them and say, all right, $150 Barron's backlink. Or that's idea number one. Idea number two, as part of this form factor is you just filter by domain authority rankings. So it's like $150 for one backlink from a domain authority. That's between 85 and 92. So you don't know its barons. No one can circumvent you. You know what you're Getting, because that's the problem with almost every backlink site out there is that they can promise it's high quality. They're usually not. You might need above 50 domain authority. And for those listening, domain authority is just like literally a score between 0 and 100 of how much authority a website has according to Google. Right.

And the value backlink from a higher domain authority site means more to your SEO rankings.

Yes.

Of their. You're like borrowing the domain. If in Google's eyes, if somebody of that high caliber links to your site, you must also be of high caliber. And so your domain authority will go up, your rankings go up by getting mentioned in high authority site.

Yes. And to give you an example of what it can do, that article on Barrons went live yesterday. I went and looked at our Google Analytics and I saw that Barrons.com was our 19th most popular referring site for the day. Which is bad. It's not good. It was like 17 clicks. But I don't care about that because what you can't quantify immediately is what that does for your domain authority for your keyword rankings across thousands of keywords. Right. So yeah, if bucky's.com links to us on their homepage, it's going to be number one and it's going to be the most life changing thing ever for the company. But their domain authority is much, much lower than someone like Bears. So yeah, I would prefer Buc EE's, but all else equal, I want any site, whether it's relevant to Texas snacks or not, to have high domain authority. Right?

Yep. And so ours, the model that I'm playing with is, yeah, basically go in, get full transparency on all of them and order like literally like you said, like get a backlink on Barons for X price which like backlinks are relatively pay to play anyways. Like you might have a connect at Barron's but like if you want him to be doing that regularly, the man's getting the man or woman or they is getting paid, right? Like, yeah, I'll pay you 150 bucks and then I go to the client and in our model at unlimited content, it's just a 15% flat markup that we're very transparent about. But other agencies will mark that up 400%. Like and they won't tell you who it's through or what it's for. Right. Like it's just kind of an opaque world. And so like I think I'm going to follow more of like the Costco membership model of like, look, we're not going to charge a markup on any of these backlinks, but you have to pay us 100 bucks a month for access to them.

Yeah. So are you saying you're going to actually test this?

I already did.

Dude, we're not supposed to actually do things on this podcast. We just talk about things, Right?

Dude, I know it's fitting that we talked today, but I literally was, like, sitting around last night. Lauren was packing envelopes for our Save the Dates, and we were just watching Cheaper by the Dozen, and I just had my laptop open. I was like, I should just test this funnel, dude. Like, let's just see if we can do it. And so launched a $1 free trial funnel. Zero. Dude, I do not have the marketplace built. Like, I tinkered Shopify, but, like, nothing that I could show to a customer. But like, yeah, hey, sign up for this $1 trial and let's see what happens. We got.

We got.

We got some homies coming through, dude. On Facebook ads.

So you just. You say you built the funnel. You just launched the Facebook ad campaign.

To a landing page that went to a 1. A $1 trial stripe payment link just to see if I could get cold traffic to pay for it.

What was the offer? Do you want to show your. Your landing page?

Yeah. Yeah, I can do that.

What did you build the landing page with?

Oh, perspective. Dude, you better put my affiliate link in your. In your.

I will, I will. I'll hook you up. Prospective landing page.

Perspective.

Perspective.

Co. Perspective. Yeah. Okay. Screen share.

You are like the tool master. You know every tool.

Thanks, dude.

In the world. You're a giant tool master.

I'm a big tool, dude. Yeah. So this is the Lander super simple. It looks horrible on desktop because no one's looking at it on desktop of Facebook ads, but, like, literally the Costco of backlinks. Stop wasting money on low quality backlinks. Get real results without the markup. Direct access to wholesale link prices for 83 bucks a month, 100% money back guaranteed placements done. Right. What do you get? High quality backlinks for a fraction of the price. Access to all of our partners. No markups or middlemen. Right. Like, that's the. That's just the value stack. We also, we. We already do a bunch of press releases for all of our clients and unlimited content. And so we do this super. Yeah. From ourselves, basically. But, like, okay, yeah, so we'll just rip that case studies and the. Nice. So good for me. Which is a little bit different than what some other People can do which is like, just to be super transparent is like these are clients of unlimited content. So I can, yeah, I can actually say they're Kate.

Like, you got a little unfair advantage here.

Yeah. Like we've done this.

That's a good.

So I can.

That's a good framework because people should launch businesses where they have an unfair advantage and everyone listening to this has an unfair advantage in something. Maybe it's your, your background, your history, the job you have, what you're passionate about. It doesn't have to be about money. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't have to be your network, all of it.

And so yeah, that's basically sit up in my chair.

Now we're giving.

Yeah. So I can sit here and like put case studies because like these are people that we actually bought backlinks for using the same backlinks that we're going to sell. Right. So it's like I can, I can do that a little bit easier than somebody popping in and being like, how can I just make up the number of customers? Like, yeah, you decide your own ethical line. But like we, since we have unlimited, I can do that better.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, start ranking. Like become a member. Browse inventory all the way through all the FAQs, all the fun stuff.

So.

And then just ran the ads at that.

What did you do to the people that paid? What did you email them or.

Yeah, immediately and just refunded them and so that we'd reach out when the platform's ready.

Okay. Wow. Obviously you're not going to be profitable at a dollar. Right. But what, what was your like your cost per acquisition or cost per lead?

We averaged like $21 for that dollar, which like that's really good. No VSL. Yeah. Like I'm happy it's an 83.

You're telling them it's an 83amonth offer, right? Yeah.

And so it's in my brain I go, cool if 25 convert on that trial on break even on. I haven't decided if I'm gonna like, like this was very early stage testing. Right. And so like I haven't decided between a three day trial or a seven day trial. Right. Like, and it's all just a cash conversion cycle. Question of like, cool, if I can get people at 80, if I can get $20 trials at 83, I'm either in a 25% trial conversion rate. I'm breaking even on a three, it will be three, five or seven days. Like I'm not going to do a 30 day trial and so then I can go and spend on, on ads pretty aggressively. But it was cool. Like it's one of those, it's like you just get the. And I, to be clear, I also turn the ads off because I don't have a product to sell, but I like prove that I could sell it. So now I get to go build it next week and it'll go live maybe by the time this episode comes out, depending on how fast Muhammad is. But.

You know, he's pretty fast.

He's quick.

I know, dude, there's, there's so much I want to say. First of all, anyone listening? Sam is a bro. He's a bro of the pod. And he's inviting people to compete with him because he's also trying this. But we don't, we don't hold back the juice here. We don't, we don't withhold secrets, right?

Come compete, dude. Come hang out.

I love it. And if you listen to episode 164, that was like my most downloaded audio episode ever. It's about a guy that builds directories. And I don't remember if it was $50 or 500. I don't remember. But in the episode he talked about how he really shelled out for a very relevant backlink to his directory. And that 50 or $500 investment nets him like 2 to $3,000 a month in like ad just like media vine ads on his directory.

That's it, 100%.

And that's the power of a good back. Like not a backlink, but a good backlink. It has to be relevant. It has to have high domain authority.

We could have a nine hour conversation around backlinks. Like we spent a bunch of money on them and all of our SEO agencies, but it's like you get the right one in there and you think about backlink placements strategically, you can actually see like massive lift. Like what we think about when we, when we look at clients is like backlinks are like paid ads a little bit, right? Like if you're ranking, if anyone thinks about how they use Google, there's kind of like three buckets, like three tiers of what we call like click density. And so like the highest clicked on links are 1, 2 and 3, right? So like top three is where you see the most clicks, right? Then you have 7 through 10, right? The rest of the first page and then you have 11 and on, right? Kind of like classic Pareto principle, right? Where you get the clicks. What we do from a strategic perspective, when we're thinking about backlinks is we go and look for where you're on the cusp of the next tier. Right. Because for you guys, like let's take Texas snacks as an example. It's like if you're ranking number 11 for something and then you go get $300 worth of relevant backlinks for that 11 page and move to number 10 or number 9.

Yeah.

You actually can arbitrage the cost because you're not. The difference between being number 8 and number 7 is pretty minimal, but the difference between 9 and 11 is meaningful. Or same with like, or 7, 6 or 5 and 3. Right. It's like yeah. And so when you're, when you're thinking about that and a lot of this is going to be educating people on how to self serve backlinks and like be smart about how they go about it. We are going to offer a free backlink strategy when you sign up as a member. So like we'll help them kind of coach them into best using our product. But like when you're going through and doing those, that's, those are the opportunities that you're looking for. Of like, yeah, like a $500 backlink could equal spending $500 a month on Google Ads. If you're buying the right one, you just only have to pay for it once or as frequently as your competitors are buying backlinks. Right. Like that's the thing.

It's so funny how I mean Google and Facebook, these trillion dollar companies and a large reason for that is because of like just the slow death of ads because we set these daily budgets. It's like, yeah, I'll do 20 bucks a day. That's not, that's not much. 20, that's $600 a month.

Like what else 7, 200 a year.

Do you pay 600amonth for? But, but you, you break it down on a daily basis which is why you always see ads. It's like for less than a price of a coffee per day. Like that stuff works, right? So when it comes to backlinks, it's like 500 for a backlink. Are you an idiot? That's going to pay dividends for a decade? Whereas your Facebook ad, once you turn that $20 a day budget off, it doesn't care about you anymore. It's forgotten about you.

I just had a sick idea off the back of that, which is I'm definitely going to let people buy backlinks with buy now, pay later.

Like Klarna.

Yeah, I'm for sure, I'm for sure gonna put Klarna on this thing. Yeah, you get this. You get this backlink for 4 equal payments, 0% interest.

If I buy a $50 hot dog at cost on buy now, pay later.

Dude.

Backlinks with it.

I'm just saying. I'll throw it on there. I'll see what's good.

Oh, my gosh, dude.

So that'll be a fun one.

That's a good idea. I really like the idea of saying, not, like, buy 10 backlinks, but buy this backlink from these guys, this one from these guys, this one from these guys. All right. What'd you think? Please share it with a friend. And we'll see you next time on the Kerner Office.