He's Our Ron Swanson

Peace out, Ron Swanson. This is the Elevate Polk podcast, and I'm your host Chrissanne Long. And with me, as always, is Rob Arturi, a very envious Rob Arturi. Oh, you are envious. So let's introduce our guest. We have Bob Donahue, the director of Parks and Rec Department at the City of Lakeland, with us. Welcome, Bob.

Thank you very much. I appreciate the invite.

Thanks for coming. And Rob wants to kind of talk about how much—

I'm a huge fan of the show Parks and Recreation. I love that show. And I've always joked that Ron Swanson is my spirit animal. So years ago, my brother actually bought me this bobblehead of Ron Swanson that sits here in the studio with us.

I'm holding the bobblehead in my hand at the moment. We'll take a picture.

I never imagined the day would come where I would be having a conversation on a podcast with a Parks and Rec director.

An actual Parks and Rec director.

With my bobblehead of Ron Swanson. This is it for me.

I mean, you just tell me who you want to talk to and I just make a call and they show up. I mean, this is it.

I don't have any other bobbleheads.

That's it.

It's all downhill for me. I'm on the back nine.

I was trying to get my hands on a Grady Judd bobblehead, but I have not successfully done so.

Those are hard to come by.

I know. That's why I want one.

I'll see what I can do.

Well, so, Bob, we brought you on the show first. I want to do a little background. Let's talk about your experience with the city, how long you've been doing what you do. And let's just talk a little bit about your story before we get into the work side of your life. Did you— were you born in Lakeland? Did you move to Lakeland? How did you get to Lakeland? How did your family get to Lakeland? Tell us about your family.

This is great. Actually, I've been with the city for 42 years now. It's been a great ride. I've worked through many different of our divisions, and I actually grew up in Hialeah, down in Miami. When I was in college, my parents moved up here, and I was still in college. Then I came and got a part-time job. I was hired by the city and worked in Recreation Division, actually at Simpson Park, And it all started from there. I worked in recreation division for about 15 years. Then I switched over to the parks division for about 19 years.

Okay.

And then made it up into administration.

Cool. So you've just worked your way from all the way from the bottom up.

The very bottom up. The very bottom.

So what was your first job like? What did you actually do at Simpson Park?

I was a part-time recreation leader. I worked 20 hours a week while I was in college and doing recreation programs there, racquetball, flag football, those type of things. And it was really great. If you're from Hialeah, Hialeah is 90% minority.

Yes.

And so working in the Northwest section was no big deal for me because that's where I grew up at.

Right, right.

And so it was, and there were so many people there and they're, the folks around the park are so athletic.

Yeah.

I mean, running flag football leagues and basketball leagues. It was fantastic because we got a lot of guys who used to come home and from colleges and play in our leagues and stuff like that. And key guys just outta college and they were just starved for things to do and everything we ran, went really, really well. So, and it was a great learning experience for me, to be honest with you.

Cool. So did you decide one day in college, you say, I want to be a parks and rec director, or did it just kind of happen because of like the way life ran for you?

Actually, when I graduated from high school in 1975, a long time ago, it was my second day out of, and I was in my little Volkswagen that my dad bought me, and I was with my best friend and we were headed to the beach. We lived about 15 miles from the beach and we were headed to the beach. And the man, Ed Hall, who was the parks and recreation director in Ohio Galea knew me from when I played football down there, and I always talked to him at the stadium on Friday nights. And he pulled up next to me in traffic and he said, "What are you doing this summer?" I said, "Right now I'm heading to the beach." He said, "Well, tomorrow you're coming to work for me." Oh wow. Whatever. Looked down at me and said, "Whatever, get down to my office and fill out the paperwork. And if you're not there, I'm gonna call your parents." Oh boy. So I went and filled out the application and that's where it all started.

That's awesome.

Preordained.

It's a little known, little known fact. I don't know if you, I don't know, I know neither of you know this, but I don't know if anyone listening knows this. My little brother is a parks and rec guy now. He's, he's not the director, but he's somewhere kind of on his way into that direction in Hendersonville, Tennessee.

Oh, that's great.

So just outside of Nashville, he's worked his way through a couple of different places and they ended up in, in that area and he's, he's working. So I see his posts on Facebook sharing cool things that are going on in Hendersonville and I'm like, that's my little brother.

So we have the parks and rec director and your brother is our Leslie Knope.

He's Leslie Knope.

Yeah.

Shout out to Dallas. Shout out to Dallas. So, wow.

Thank you.

Okay, so talk about the role of the Parks and Rec Director, what you do, what kind of decisions you have to make as far as the Parks and Rec goes in the community. Just give us kind of the overview of the job.

I tell you what, our Parks and Recreation is really unique. We're really actually a pretty large department. We have about 420 employees. So we're actually a pretty large department in the general fund. We're made up of— we have the parks, recreation, the cemeteries, the libraries, the golf course, Detroit Tiger baseball. And so we're pretty widespread. We are very diverse. We do a lot of different things. I always make a joke when I give presentations to the public and I said, well, between parks, recreation, the libraries, cemeteries, one way or the other, I'm going to see you. And so, and so, but we offer the constant there. There's a customer service that we always offer our citizens and we're big on that as far as— and we're big on the look. When you drive to one of our parks, we call it the Lakeland Way. You notice that every one of our athletic fields are all Bermuda grass. None of 'em are bahia, none of 'em are St. Augustine. And they're all kept at a very high level. You look at everything that we do, we pride ourselves on the fact that when we open a facility, if you go back 3 years later, that it's gonna be better than when we cut the ribbon. You know, 'cause I always tell everybody, anybody can build anything, but what's it look like 5 or 10 years later? Sure. That tells you how really good you are.

Wow.

And so we're really proud of that fact. And that was handed down for me from Joker Marchant to Ed Gandy to Bill Tinsley. Lied and myself, it was always a standard that we always had for our parks that we took great pride in.

And so you're looking to the future when you're making those decisions for today?

Oh, definitely. I mean, when anything that we build, anything we look at, whatever, we, we're trying to do something different. For instance, this summer in July, we're going to open up a new facility called Lake Crago, which is located off Lakeland Hills Boulevard out off 33. It's right there by the cancer center. And right now we did phase 1 a couple of years ago where we did a dog park and a boat ramp into a gorgeous lake. Lake Crago, and that also, that ties into Lake Parker Park. And, but we're building a facility, our first water-based recreation center in Lakeland. Cool. It was originally designed like a Kelly Rec, but we scrapped all that. It's going to be a gorgeous building overlooking a gorgeous lake.

When can we expect that to open?

In July. We're excited about it.

July?

Yes, we're getting towards the finish line, and it's going to have a gorgeous meeting space, classrooms. We're going to offer canoeing, kayaking classes, uh, we're going to do some scuba classes. Oh wow. And we're going to do it also in the lake and also use Simpson Bar pool, and there's a lot of land out there. So we're looking into some other activities that we want to get into, but we're going to hit the ground running. It's not going to be kind of where we open the doors and, you know, in 2 months we're going to have this program, whatever. No, when we open the doors, it's going to be full boat programmed out. And but it's got a gorgeous meeting space though.

I have one question before we really get into the meet. I'm curious personally, selfishly, how do you interact and engage with the other municipalities in Polk County and through, you know, with Polk County's Parks and Rec? How do, how does it, how does that governance work amongst the entire county? How do you guys play together?

Actually, we play together extremely well. I learned a lesson a long time ago, you know, and when you have, you talk about life experiences as you're doing, and I was fortunate to be part of different renovations we've done at Marchand Stadium. And so you would think that different baseball teams are in competition with each other for who's got the best, right? It's not like that. When I started going around to other stadiums and seeing people open their doors freely, open their books freely, tell you what they did, what they did well, what they didn't do so well. And we do the same thing, whatever. I've given, I've given tours to the Yankees, the Twins, the Braves, numerous clubs that come in because they want to look— they're doing renovation and they want to copy some of the things that we do.

Right.

Parks and Rec's the same way. If Lakeland's doing good, if Winter Haven's doing good, if Polk County is doing good, we're all doing good.

Yeah.

So we all root for each other. Winter Haven just opened their new basketball facility, their new gym, which is amazing, by the way. And I went over there for the opening just to congratulate them and tell them This is awesome. You know, whatever. So it's the greater good. Yeah, whatever. If one's doing here and the other ones aren't doing so well, well, that's your whole community. It's all Polk County, right? What does it matter? Right.

So I went to Haines City last Friday to listen to— yeah, to listen to Sister Hazel out in their little amphitheater. And I'm walking out of that place going, I love this. Like, I did a shout out to the Parks and Rec team that was out there. They put that event together. That was their event for their Ribs on the Ridge, which is similar to the Pig Fest and What's the one in Winter Haven?

Smoke on the Water.

Smoke on the Water. You know, I walked away going, okay, this is awesome. I loved it. And I will continue to go back whenever there's opportunities. But I really feel like we need that live venue space in Lakeland. Like Munn Park is a perfect opportunity. I don't know how that would work for parking and things like that, but I long as a selfish request, I'm putting it into the top here saying, let's see if we can find some kind of live music venue that can just permanently be there, a structure that is permanently there for the public. And then we can have some really cool acts and bands come into town.

Ryan Ritchie is the Parks and Recreation Director. I've known him for years. He used to be with Polk County Sports Marketing, and they do a great job over there. They have a great venue. They have a great pool with a playground in the middle of it.

Gorgeous.

I love— and like I say, they got the amphitheater, and then also they have that gorgeous building that has multiple catering kitchens inside of it. So like I say, when people develop, you go over there and congratulate them, and you're like, this is great.

Yeah, super exciting. So I was super happy to see Sister Hazel, which is my longtime most favorite band in all of life in Polk County again. So that was fun, but just really cool checking out what's going on over in Haines City. So shout out to all of them over there.

And I was at Tiger Town for the first time. I've been living here for 18 years, never been to Tiger Town.

Right.

I think that's almost like something you don't want to admit.

Well, I live in Winter Haven for half of that, so. But just forgive me. Forgive me, Lakeland people.

By golly, you need to be over there more often. I'm going to say it's really important that you start getting more familiar It's to me, that's north side. Oh, we talked about this. Yeah.

So I'm a creature of the south side.

We don't need to fuel that fire of divide the north and south.

I understand, but there is a, it's a thing.

I'm going to invoke a new law.

Okay.

We can no longer say that's on the north side on this show or anything referencing it. No.

Just come up with a different euphemism.

Nope. Nope.

That's up there.

No euphemisms. Nothing about up there, over there, down there. None of that.

So we don't have any directionality now.

We're just all on some free-for-all.

Floating.

The compass is gone. We are just—

3-dimensional black hole of geography here. All right. But thanks for the scolding. But here's, here's my, my, my piece about it. What a beautiful place.

Yeah.

What a gorgeous facility. And my wife's a big baseball fan. I'm more of a football fan, but she was telling me about it being voted number 1. And I get it because we took the kids there last weekend. Beautiful day, beautiful place. I mean, just top-notch. I, I can't wait to go again.

So, well, and I, I know that there are a lot of teams that come to look, like you said, and I think there's almost a little bit of stadium envy in there. They see all of that, all that we were able to do with our, with our renovation, and they're coming to like, like what, how did you do this?

And, right.

You know, all of that great stuff. So it's just a really nice piece of our landscape and, and the culture of the community that I love. And we're going on 80 years with the contract with the Tigers.

84 now.

Okay.

84.

Whatever.

And you know what's kind of cool too, is you talk about how, how years later you network and you meet people and they come back. Well, Al Avila, who's our general manager and vice president of the Detroit Tigers, who runs the baseball operation, we grew up in Hialeah together.

Oh wow.

We went to high school together.

That is amazing.

So when we do things together, it's not just the city and the Tigers, it's Bob and Al getting together and hey, let's do this and let's do that.

Yeah.

And we trade invoices back and forth and we never have a bad meeting. And it's 2 months of old high school buddies Communities get to hang out together.

That's fantastic. Cool.

So those things don't happen very often, which is kind of cool. Yeah.

That is neat. That is neat. So we want to talk about one park in particular.

Sure.

It's full of holes.

It does have a lot of holes. 27 to be exact.

27 of them. So there has been some conversation. Chrissanne, what was my word? That—

Kerfuffle. There you go.

There you go.

There has been a kerfuffle over an issue surrounding Cleveland Heights.

Sure.

Most people are aware of it, but it's kind of reaching a boiling point in many ways.

Mm-hmm.

Well, all right. Yeah. So I was invited to a group on Facebook called Save the Heights 27. And I really didn't know what was going on. I got kind of caught out in left field, so to speak. And I, I don't generally jump right into groups just like that. I kind of sat on the sidelines and waited to see what exactly was going on. So I read some of the posts, was trying to figure out where did this start? What's going on here? Caught a reference to an LEDC presentation Steve Scruggs made to the commission in January where he was going through his annual recommendations of ways that economic development might be framed and improved over the course of this current coming budget year. And the budget season is upon us. So that happens every year. And I've watched and listened to those conversations several years, you know, now going and, and I'm trying to connect the dots. I'm trying to connect what Steve did in Steve's presentation to now we've got this Facebook group and I have a lot more questions than I have the ability to answer.

Yeah.

So I just watched and what I really just saw was a lot of conjecture and a lot of opinion and a lot of things that I couldn't really get a pinpointed answer.

On Facebook? You don't say.

Conjecture on Facebook?

Shocker.

So that led me to start, you know, kind of doing some research and figuring it out. That's my frame for, you know, where we need to go from here.

Our instinct is to go to the source, right? Because I don't like to have theoretical discussions. Okay. For 5 minutes while I'm, you know, waiting in line, sure. But about a serious topic, I don't think it's very productive.

Right.

So I want, I want the facts. And I think it's important that everybody, I don't think we're not here to change anybody's opinion. We're not here to sell or pitch anybody on one idea or another. I don't think so. If you're listening to this, that's not the point, right? And that's not what you're gonna get.

I just wanted some clarity. So that's why we reached out to Bob to say, all right, so give us the facts, tell us some of the numbers, the nuts and bolts of, of the function, how, how the Heights is functioning over the last 5 or 6 years, the future, where, where we're going with the Heights. And, and just give us that information so that we can all walk around with factual base based knowledge instead of just some conjecture and opinion?

Okay, I'll give you where I start at, okay, is that this is a 95-year piece of property in Lakeland that's been a part of our history. Um, many people, many generations have grown up around the Heights in as many different forms that it's had over the years. I've been Parks and Recreation Director since 2012, and so it's 8 years now. And after I became director is that while I ran the Recreation Divisions at one time and I ran the Parks Division one time, I I never oversaw the golf course. So after becoming director, I went down there and that commission at the time was fielding a lot of complaints from the golfers and the local residents on how bad the shape that the course was in. And so I was called upstairs and said, okay, what are we gonna do here? And because one thing I do enjoy doing is I love to grow grass. That's from the park side.

You need to talk to me.

Whatever.

I can't grow. Can you come to my house?

You never say Bermudagrass. Let's say Bermudagrass.

Okay.

So let's clarify. So, uh, you know, so that's one of the things we are good at, where we are very good at. And I have a great group that works for me that share that passion. And so I went out to the golf course. The place was a dirt track. Greens, tee boxes, bunkers, trees, dead trees. I mean, it was a gorgeous piece of property and with a great history, but it was horrible. Irrigation was the old galvanized system that was put back in the '50s and '60s. And if you have an irrigation break in your front yard, it's PVC pipe, you go out there with a hacksaw and some some glue and you're good to go again. Whatever. With galvanized, you go, you're with a torch, you're digging a huge hole. And back then, the irrigation system, the way it was, it was built, it was, which was just horrible, all 27 holes were tied together. So if you had a break, you had to dig this huge hole, cut it off, cut the whole irrigation off to the thing, let it drain for 24 hours, fix it, cover it back up, and then turn it back on. That means your grass didn't have, have any, any irrigation at all for anywhere from 42 to 52 hours.

Wow.

48 to 52 hours. So for 2 days.

Mm-hmm.

And you had to do that. And then we were having multiple irrigation breaks during the whatever. And so, so anyways, those were some of the challenges that we saw. So then I went back and I got direction from the commission at that time to fix it, make it pretty. Oh, also the food and beverage for that year.

Right.

Made $8,600 in a full bar and a full restaurant. Wow.

The whole year.

That was revenue. The whole year. Wow. $8,600. You have to work to try to lose that much money.

Mm-hmm. That doesn't come easy.

I'm gonna tell you that right now.

So, and that was when it was city-run food and beverage, right?

Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Whatever. Now let me clarify, the city has always owned that property. Yeah. It was run by the Men's Association for years. And then prior to me becoming director, when Mr. Strickland was a city manager and Bill Tizzy was director, the city took over the op— run the managing of it from the Men's Association.

Okay.

And back with the old clubhouse or whatever. And that's when it became under Parks and Recreation.

Okay.

So it's been under Parks and Recreation for a few years now. Okay. Yeah. So anyway, so I had all those challenges.

Mm-hmm.

So what we decided to do was, since I didn't have a bucket of money, is that we were gonna do, I, I took all my ball field guys that worked for me in the parks division, as many as I could take away from Tiger Town and also from the Southside Athletics, along with the greens, greens group that we had at Cleveland Heights. I formed a greens committee made up of Ron Garl, Brock Whitmire, and I did to give us ideas. And they offered, did all their consulting work for free.

Now let's just let everyone know, Ron Garl is a golf course architect located in Lakeland.

Yes.

Known for a lot of huge courses, huge world-renowned golf courses.

Yes.

So this is when we're talking about bringing in the experts, we're bringing in some people who know what they're talking about.

They all had history with Cleveland Heights and they wanted to help, right? And they were going to charge us a dime. So when I put a bid out for to see how much would it cost to renovate greens, tee boxes, drainage, and whatever, not irrigation, but those, those facets, it basically came down to $100,000 a hole to bring a company in. Wow. Well, if you do 9 holes, that's $900,000, right? So you've already got a subsidy. Well, guess what? How much you just added to it? Because you got to pay that money back, unfortunately. Yeah, whatever. So we didn't have that money. So what we did was I said, here's what we'll do. We'll add a dollar or two on to each golf round and we'll do it all in-house. So the first 9, I believe it costs us— we spent over a 3-year period, we did this 3 years consecutively. We spent a little under about $560,000 to $570,000 total on a project that should have cost us $2.7 million.

Wow.

We saved the city over $2 million by doing it in-house.

Okay.

But what happens is, is that—

Ron Swanson, everybody.

Yeah.

But what happens is when you do that is that it's just like if you go somewhere else, if you go to a restaurant or go whatever, you hear they're under construction, well, you don't want to— whatever. So you just go somewhere else, right? So your revenues go down.

Mm-hmm.

But your subsidy goes up because you just incurred a loan that you'd have to pay off.

Mm-hmm.

So that's when your numbers start to swell.

Okay.

So this has been a 1-year problem, whatever. When we did that, and I, I versed the commission well on it, I said, look, first of all, I said, the golf course will never, never make money in my lifetime. No golf course in Polk County makes money. None. Zero.

Mm-hmm.

And there's more golf courses in Polk County and worldwide and United States wide than there are McDonald's restaurants. Yeah, count them up.

That's true.

Wow. Whatever.

It's a good piece of trivia for our next trivia show.

There you go. So remember those things. These are the factors you're fighting. And so, so saying that, I can make it pretty and I can do things to fix the F&B, but there's still going to be a subsidy at the end of the day. Remember, that's going to be like any other park because that's what it is. It's a park. And they said, try to make it more park-like, do it economically. And at the same time improve the F&B.

Okay.

Well, fast forward. Okay. We did 3 years of renovation on the 27 holes. The last piece was the irrigation that was just horrible. We did that and we paid off the first renovation for the 9— the 3 nines. We paid that off with the $1 to $2 subsidies that we were getting from the golfers. And then we had to take out another loan for $1.7 million to do all the irrigation.

Okay.

But what that does, that makes you bulletproof against drought.

Droughts.

That's what it is. And it's amazing too, whatever.

So we are in Florida and we do have a, a risk of drought and seasons where we don't get the rain that we need. So having a, a risk closed up by making sure that's not gonna happen is a, is a good thing.

So this has been a 5-year journey, but it was a 5-year journey that I've versed everybody very well on and said, look, revenue's gonna go this way. It's gonna go down. Subsidies is gonna go up as we go through this.

This. Everybody has to understand that and agree to it, you know, and be prepared for what that means over these next 5 or 6 years.

Exactly. But at the end of the journey, then let's let the dog hunt and see where we're going to end up at, right? So I can tell you that you can look at numbers, you can see where the subsidy went from $700-some thousand, now up to $1.2 million. But I warned everybody, I— right, you know, it wasn't hidden.

So let's compare that original subsidy to some of the other parks. Just give us a reference point of of, you know, Simpson Park, Peterson Park.

In round numbers, Kelly Rec costs around approximately $650,000 as a subsidy. The swimming pool, Simpson Park, Kelly Rec, that's $1.1 million.

Mm-hmm.

Simpson Park again is $650,000.

Okay.

Whatever that gives you, the, the Lake Mirror, the entire complex including Barnett Park, Sunflower Park, and all the amphitheater, the outdoor amenities, that whole complex costs around $900,000.

All of those combined.

All of those combined. Okay. And so that gives you how much, you know, how much we subsidize. Now I can tell you this is that thank God this 5-year journey is over.

Mm-hmm.

I can tell you that we have a fantastic restaurant in there. Irish Pub 1916.

Yep. Shout out to Chuck Jameson and his team. He's doing an amazing job in, in revitalizing the food and beverage atmosphere.

Yes.

At the golf course. And I've been several times and he's, he's worked with me a lot. So I'm, I'm pleased with what I'm seeing from that end.

Yeah, he's been fantastic. And he has also his own catering business. So he kills the catering and the golf tournaments and stuff like that. He has a whole new dimension to that. And then I can tell you that the course itself is, oh my gosh, it's gorgeous now.

Mm-hmm.

Whatever. I, I thought it would turn out good. Dustin Plemons and his croaks, uh, who's our head grounds, who our green superintendent is amazing. I tell you what, uh, every day I get, I get, uh, compliments on it every day now where 6, 7 years ago, whatever, we were getting beat up left and right.

Mm-hmm.

And now, you know, now that people think we're the best things since corn on the cob. So, but I can tell you that. But since October 1st to now, to today, whatever, we are $171,000 above where we were last year.

Oh wow, that's huge.

We're 6,300 rounds more than we were last year.

Right. So the budget cycle starts October 1st.

Yes.

And so now we're— how many months is it into the cycle?

We're, we're in our— we're about to finish up our 4th month.

4th month.

5th month. We're about to finish our 5th month. So, and we haven't even gotten into March yet.

Right.

And March is usually a big, a big month. Right.

Spring training just started. We've got a lot of people coming down. Yes. You know, the golf courses are gonna be popular, right? Always during that time.

So I'm not discouraging people from having the discussion about the heights. I think it's healthy. I'm— what I, what I just ask is, is that all these things before we started this, I told them how it's gonna play out.

Mm-hmm.

Whatever. Now that we've been through all this and we have all this capital investment into the grass, into the irrigation, into, we did a lease agreement for the golf carts and the equipment for the, to take care of it. And we signed a 5-year lease with a great restaurant restaurant. Let the dog hunt, right? Let's give it 3 or 4 years, see what it does. And if it doesn't do any better, by all means, we need to talk. But until then, let's find out how— what it is, right?

Right.

Is that something— is that simple?

Yeah, I think that's a fair— that's a fair point. Whenever you make a change, if you're constantly in a state of flux, it's very hard to get your bearings.

Sure.

You, you have to have some— a bigger sample size to see, is this working? So now you just explained very, very thoroughly the, the budgetary challenges of, of the Heights and where some of the increased subsidy came from and gave some, I think, some insight as to what we can expect in the future in terms of a lower subsidy as a result of those improvements, right? That investment into it. But at the end of the day, it's an amenity. It's a city-owned-run amenity just like any other park. And government itself doesn't really make anything. They don't really make, I don't know how many parks out there around the world. I mean, you might, other park conventions, there has to be something that, I mean, does anybody ever stand up and go, yeah, we have a city-run park. It makes $5 million a year.

It's profitable. This is a profit center for our city.

I mean, we, you know, maybe in San Francisco they'll charge you $40 to go on a swing. I don't know. But you know, they could get away with it maybe. But my point is we as a community, it's important to have the conversation. Conversation, but we have to have it rationally. We have to have it, we have to have it with people like yourself and take at least those positions into account and kind of look at the whole big picture and not make snap rash decisions.

Right. Or draw conclusions that aren't there to be drawn yet. I mean, like you said, we're letting the dog hunt. We're going to give it some time. If it is not, and if it does not continue to improve as any any entity should. We've got to assess the situation and make those decisions when that time comes. But we're, we're not, I don't think we've had enough time to see the return on the investment that we've made in the improvements of the golf course to truly show us what we can do in 20, in the 2020s.

Well, we talked about, you know, there's those intangible things. We talked about how much money the F&B was making when I became director, $8,600.

Right.

Okay. Right now we have $1,916 in there. And we get $45,000 a year from them on a lease agreement that will consistently rise over the next 5 years. Okay. So we'll get, it's gonna go up and up and up. And we don't serve this first cup of coffee. We don't have to worry about liquor liability insurance.

Right.

We don't have to hire the first employee or do anything else. Somebody wants to have a, their favorite event there. And all I say, hey, call this guy Chuck Jameson. He'll take care of you.

Mm-hmm.

And glad to do it.

Right.

We talk about the other things too, is part of the renovation of the last year when we— while we were doing all the irrigation on 27 holes, we also worked with our water department to put a force main through the golf course. Well, here's how it works in the private industry. If you, Chrissanne Long, if you and I own the golf course, we own that property and somebody wants to take a big pipe and run it through our property. Okay. And it's a 30-foot— I mean, it's not whatever it's— and this pipe is this swath of digging digging is 30-foot wide. Yeah, I was out there, I saw it, whatever. And then you have to fix it all back and you have to resod it and mend it before your golfers can come back, whatever. Well, they're watching all this take place. We look like whatever, like we look like a junkyard right now because we got all this going on through the golf course. Well, by them running it through the golf course instead of through the neighborhoods or down the Polk Parkway, that saved that project $6 million.

Wow.

Wow. Okay. And that's by their own estimates that I have a slide on.

Mm-hmm.

$6 million now. But that force main is gonna connect to all those new houses that they're building, 4,000 to 5,000 houses in Southwest Lakeland.

Mm-hmm.

Well, don't those new houses pay taxes?

Yes.

So we just help another amenity. We save $6 million for the city by allowing them to do that. Mm-hmm. And Chrissanne Long, if that's our property and you're gonna run that pipe, Ron Garl told me the other day that there was a, a similar golf course to Cleve Heights that ran a gas line, had run a gas line through it. And that company wrote that golf course a check for over $3 million.

Wow.

So we didn't charge nobody nothing.

Right.

We allowed that, saved another city department $6 million, took it on the chin with rounds.

Right, right.

That cost us, it cost us over 10,000 rounds by doing that.

Wow.

And then at the same time, and they're looking at the long run, whenever we talk about raising money for taxes and stuff like that to increase the tax base, Well, we just helped build 4,000 or 5,000 houses just now, didn't we?

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, if you had to write that check for lost revenues to a private corporation, that's always gonna be bigger than just taking your own losses.

Right. Right.

Now you, you mentioned taxes. This is another important part. So in the Facebook group, I see a lot of people talking about Save the Heights and I've played there for a long time and I don't want anything to happen to it.

Thank you. Right. Sure.

But here's the problem. Problem. How many of those people will stand up and raise their hand and say, raise my taxes, right? We, we live in a world where people, and some would, right? I'm sure there's some people that say, sure, charge me an extra, I don't know, $10, $100, whatever it might be a year, but leave the Heights. But the fact of the matter is that most people want the same or more for the same money. They don't want their taxes to go up, but they want their amenities to stay the same or get better.

Sure.

And we have to be cognizant of that. We have to— I think most people, if they hear all of the components, how many people talking about what a disaster it was to run the water main through the golf course knew what you just described?

Right.

So if anything, I think— I don't know how you do this better. Maybe it's just different media. Maybe it's stuff like podcasts where we talk about some of this stuff, but essentially Eventually people could find out about these things. They, if they really paid attention, they went and listened to a commission meeting or, or something like that. But that doesn't happen all the time. And unfortunately it's just easier to get on there and just give your opinion and go with it.

Mm-hmm.

And then pile on those opinions. And I think we owe it to our city and our, our self-government to make informed decisions and to, to be a part of the conversation. But to listen to all of the voices.

Or get all of the facts too at the same time.

Because everything has a cost. This is not a static thing. You can't just say, "Well, it's been there for 95 years and I want it to stay there." That's not how any of this stuff works. So we have to— if we truly— if you really want it to be there, then you have to invest some of the effort into the process. And you have to have a rational conversation about it and you have to listen to all the pieces. I think if you really do care about the future of the Heights, you have to be a part of the rational conversation and you have to talk about value propositions, cost benefit. Because those are the things that move the needle. And the commissioners, people love to complain, but they, everyone that I've met is willing to listen.

Right, they do. And I think the other—

oh yeah, definitely—

the other piece of that is that we are at a time in history where people can quickly gather, share ideas, have a conversation, and capitulate a situation to a point where now, you know, there's— you kind of reference it as hysteria. It feels a little hysterical at this point in time, but at the same time, we know that we care about our community, and those voices are coming together out of concern concern for something that they value and they think is important and they don't want to see go away. And we know, and I know, like you said, the commissioners are open, their ears are open, they're watching, they're listening, they're growing in their understanding of how to use social media in a way to hear the voices of the people. Because traditionally, how I see it is this is public record. Bob's been doing reports to the commission every year and sharing all of this information for the last 5 years about the progress of the course, about the irrigation, about all the things that they needed to make those decisions on to get to this point. So this isn't just like a surprise, hey, here's all the story we haven't told you before. We've been telling this story all along, but we haven't been following it along until it capitulates to a point of now we're all interested, now we're paying attention. But I think that the, the side of things that to me I want to continue to go back to, and it was really great when we had Grady Judd on the show because that was when it really triggered in me. Our staff at the city level have the institutional knowledge. They have the background, the experience. We have to do a little bit more trusting, I think, that they have our best interests at heart and staff is going to do their due diligence to make sure that the commission is informed about all of the options and then allowing the commission to make those decisions because it's the commission's job ultimately to establish the policy. And what the decisions are going to be made are going to be based on facts that the staff are going to provide. So it doesn't happen overnight. Nothing's just going to, you know, tomorrow we're not pulling out the bulldozer and knocking down, you know, the building and putting up houses. So we've got to just, we have to be more informed as citizens to know this is a process. And here's who I need to reach out to, the commission, or, you know, share my thoughts via an email.

Half of it is what you say. It's half of it is that message. The other half is the method.

And I think the commission does do a really good job of listening. I think that it's challenging because it is so volatile and so name-calling and just it gets personal. So I think if we could educate ourselves as to the best way to communicate on issues that are going to be made, decisions are going to be made, we've got to take the personal side out of it. And I think we can improve as a community I think the entire country can improve, but I'm mostly concerned with the Polk County area myself. So we'll start there.

Good plan.

No, you know, I just caution people, as we talked earlier, I just caution people that is that get— be informed, be engaged. And you said you're a Southsider and we talked earlier about being a Southsider. I'm a Northsider, by the way. So I get that. Whatever. So I wasn't with Chrissanne Long. I won't tell you that right now, whatever. But the thing about it is, is that You look at Cleveland Heights Boulevard, it starts, like I told you earlier, starts at Peterson Park with the baseball field, Little League baseball fields, and the boardwalk and the lake and everything in the picnic sheds. It goes to the YMCA, it goes to Cleveland Heights where you have the 27-hole golf course, you have the walking path, you have the ostriches out there, you have all the wildlife. And then it goes to the F&B, then it goes across the street to Common ground to the tennis courts, to the walking path and the multi-use field there. And then it goes on Lake Hollingsworth. Being someone who lives on the South Side, that is an unbelievable recreation amenity.

Absolutely.

You as a voter, you as a resident, you have to decide what you want Lakeland to be. It's an excellent point. Are those the amenities that you want given up, whatever is, you know, go to, or do you want developers to go somewhere else? Because once it's sold, sold, it's gone.

Yeah, it's a great point.

Never to return. And, and I always caution also, whatever, is that if you put houses and condos and stuff on there or whatever, the traffic you're going to have to deal with, and also the loss of control. If you're a Southsider and you don't like the way it looks, well, you got Bob's number. You call Bob and you complain and say, whatever, what in the heck just happened over here? Just like those commissioners 7 years ago complained to me about the condition of the golf course. I didn't leave it in that condition. I didn't put it in that condition. But staff's job, I do what they say. They're policymakers. We carry out to the best of our ability. And I, and we went and fixed it. We did exactly as instructed. Mm-hmm.

I appreciate you being who you are and, and the commitment you've had to Lakeland for the last 42 years.

Yeah. Go to a, go to a big city, go, go to Chicago and see how fast you can get somebody, a director from a local branch of government to come down and talk about what, what is somewhat of a sensitive issue, let's say, right? It doesn't happen. No, it doesn't happen.

Well, you'd have, you know, make an appointment with somebody and, and maybe they'll pass the message.

You'll get a letter in the mail that says no comment, right? So, you know, for what it's worth, we're pretty lucky here.

Yeah, we are.

What I'm telling you is, is that, you know, that's what you have the control over that facility. Because if you don't like the look, or if you think it's going downhill, or if you play golf there yesterday and two of the greens, half of the grass was dead, well, you know who to call.

It's true.

You know, if that's a housing development and how it looks, and if somebody don't cut their grass, you got no control.

Wow, that's a great point.

As we talk about the future of Lakeland, right, you know, we have to think about that, that community. You know, if the golf course is 95 years old, so is a lot of the residential area around it. Sure. And it's, it's a very nice, very well-kept area. People, um, the property values there have been pretty strong. But let's Let's face it, that's an older area. And my fear is that it's really easy to talk about the, the, the financial cost of some of this stuff, right? But as we look ahead to the future, as that area ages, one of two things will happen. Either people will come in and invest in that community and fix up their homes.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, modernize them as they age and invest and keep that a, a stable, vibrant, you know, nice community, or it will just decay and property values will go low and development will go elsewhere. That the difference might very well come down to those amenities and the accessibility to those amenities in that area. If I lived right by those tennis courts, I would be playing tennis far more often. If I could walk to the golf course, if you take those things away, there is an opportunity cost. Cost. And I think that it's important that the LADC brings up the, the financial costs and those numbers. And I think it's important that we as a community talk about those societal costs as well, and that we have a calm discussion about all these things together.

Right.

And I think that's how we get the best decision.

Well, and I think to me it's a balance. Um, you know, I'm doing like the pendulum, you know, it's not all one side and it's not all the other. It's somewhere in the middle lies the answer. And it's always great to have people thinking about the future and opportunities and what options exist and what could we do and what are the possibilities. Just basically knowing that we kind of, I don't even know how to start back that idea.

I'm so glad to see somebody who's younger do that. I feel so good about myself right now. I'm gonna tell you that right now.

I'm glad that I was able to get up this morning and make you feel good about yourself.

We started early today, Bob.

So basically I'm just looking forward to the community that we love so much going to where the puck is going to be, not where the puck is today. So as we get together as a community and we, we all want to elevate the future, we want to leave a better place for our children, we want to, we want a legacy that we can leave for, for the future. We don't want them to look back at us and go, wow, why did they do that? That was a dumb, dumb decision. But at the same time, we're going to make the decisions based on where we are, you know. And that's, that's what it boils down to.

All right, as you just said, you hit it on the it's balance. Yeah, it really is. Is that what do you as a taxpayer want Lakeland to look like? What amenities are you willing to pay for? And at the same time, Steve Scruggs and the LADC that we talked about earlier, they do tremendous work in our community. Sure, they are a partner in our community. They've brought great developments that's increased our tax base, has made our community grow and made Lakeland to what it is today. So it shouldn't be a competition with anybody. If they're good and we're good, good folks, we're all good. It's just that simple.

Yeah.

And so we have to remember that. But, uh, like I say, but I'm on the parks guy. I'm, I'm that guy. I'm, I'm your hero guy right here. Even looks kind of like me too, by the way.

I know, the mustache.

Yeah, I think we're gonna get a picture of Bob and Ron Swanson together.

Yes.

I told my wife this morning I got to get up and go get a haircut because I also look like, uh, Geraldo.

So that's great.

So But the thing about it is, is that it's all that balance. And of course, from the park side, I'm going to defend the park side, whatever, and try to keep those amenities because I've watched this sold property off years ago and, and then watch how it affected a specific area.

Mm-hmm.

It's about—

we need those, we need those, that perspective. We need that input, you know.

Right.

So I am just grateful for your time.

Thank you.

We're looking forward to the growth at the Heights and the opportunities that will exist in the future there and all of the great things that are going going on in all of the other parks and recs. And I, I told myself when we, when we started, I actually wrote it down, I wanted to squeeze this in. My two favorite parks and rec guys besides you, Bob, are the two Steves. Oh, Steve Platt and what's Steve?

Steve Williams.

Williams. Those guys, you see them all over the place. And then if you don't know which one Steve Platt is, he's the one with the iconic, um, uh, boat hanging out of the boat trying to catch the swan on the Swan Roundup.

That's him.

So, you know, I just shout out to those guys and all of the parks and rec staff and team because you do such an incredible job of keeping this City beautiful, and the quality of life that you bring to us is unequaled by any stretch of the imagination. So I appreciate everybody. Shout out.

Thank you.

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