I've Heard He's Got a Nice Ascot

I've heard he has a nice ascot. This is the Elevate Pulp Podcast, and I'm your host Chrissanne Long. And with me from a distance is Rob Archeri.

Hello.

And we have a guest. Why don't you introduce our guest? Because you have history.

History? That's a— yeah, that's an interesting way to put it. Uh, yes, we are, we are friends. Um, Our guest today is Brad Sundgren. Did I pronounce that right? Sundgren?

That's— yeah, the D is silent.

We're so good friends, we don't know how to—

we go way back, way back.

Yeah, it's not like I call him by his full name. Hello, Brad Sundgren. Good to see you, Brad Sundgren.

I would, I would correct you if it was wrong, so you're good.

That, that I, I imagine you would. So I don't know how to explain it, but it seems like everybody I've ever met knows Brad.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel. I was thinking about it earlier before the show, and I was saying it's kind of like the new Volkswagen model. Like once you see it, you see it everywhere, but until you've seen it, you don't even know it exists. That's how I feel. I met Brad and then now he's everywhere and he knows everyone I know. What the heck is up with that? Right.

Yeah, I get around, I guess, as they may say.

Welcome, Brad.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Well, you've been a big supporter of the podcast from the beginning.

So you've even designed t-shirts.

Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, I try to, I try to do what I can, get in the mix and have some fun and be an encouragement.

So quite honestly, you're the reason I always say, by golly. So thank you for that. I'm sure the listeners appreciate it.

Oh yeah, a lot of requests for that pouring in. So what better way to show our appreciation of your longtime support support than to invite you to be on the show when we can all be in the studio together.

Right, that may be perfect timing then.

Maybe. So tell us, tell us about the ascot and the pipe. I want to know that. I want to know the story behind the story.

So right, as the condition of me being on, on here today, I was informed that I had to wear an ascot and have a pipe. So I do own an ascot. I think I only know of 2 people in town that, that do. And I was at a Union Hall show, the The Black Honkies were playing and their drummer is, I don't know how old he is, 65 or older, is in an awesome suit and he's wearing an ascot. I'm on the dance floor having a good time, pull up Amazon, order an ascot from the dance floor and it arrives at my house 2 days later. And so now I have an ascot and that evening I also ordered one for a friend of mine.

And so those are the two people that—

those are the two people, the two confirmed people I know of that, that own and wear. Well, he doesn't wear it, but I do wear mine occasionally. So I have an ascot, and then I have a pipe because I found a pipe when we were cleaning out some stuff, and I thought that went along with an ascot as well.

And it seems to be your, your Zoom profile picture. I don't know where else it probably lives, but that's when I first saw it.

Yeah, Facebook profile picture as well. Okay. I think is the, the ascot and the pipe. Yep.

So Brad and I, I would say kindred spirits because, um, when we were at Podfest, we saw this guy with this scrolling LED hat and I thought, well, that's kind of neat. And then my sidekick, the supreme extrovert that she is, says, well, let's go talk to him.

So, well, that's what made me want to go talk to him. I'm like, you need a hat like that. We need to find out where he got it. Right.

So we walked over and now you have one. I know, because while we were there talking to him, I went and bought one on my phone on Amazon. So there aren't many people that are as, um, I guess the word would be impulsive. Yes, but yeah, that sounds like there's such a negative connotation with that. I don't know that we do impulsively bad things. It's just you see something and you— this, this works, you know. For you it was an ascot. For me it's a ridiculous hat with a scrolling, uh, LED message board.

Yeah, yeah, so I've enjoyed wearing it. It gets lots of attention, which is kind of fuel— fills my tank.

There you go.

So Brad has been an inspiration for a lot of levity and, uh, and brought a lot of humor to this whole social quarantine thing with his love affair with making t-shirts, uh, designing t-shirts. And I kind of look forward to it now, like, throughout the day.

Do you get a cut when someone buys one of those shirts?

I, I don't— I— there's a store you can set up on the platform that I'm using, but like, I don't care about that. It's just make a shirt and then if somebody wants to buy it. So I, I know of like, I think at least 3 people that have bought— that have actually bought the shirts that I'm, that I'm posting. So typically 9:30 every day is when I, I post whatever the next shirt is. So gotcha. Yeah. So some sort of COVID quarantine-related humor. Sometimes it's sweet sentiments of, you know, being kind to each other or something like that. But typically it's— there's some sort of levity to the design.

And Brad has kind of a dry humor, would be a good way to put it, I think, which I like. But now, Brad, you once made fun of me because I liked Monty Python. And you don't like Monty Python, is that right?

Right. Yeah. I don't know if I made fun— well, I probably did make fun of you, but that just does not— I'm just not a Monty Python fan. Like that, Jimmy Buffett, like there are things that people love that I just don't get or don't appreciate. But I'm happy that you like it. Yeah.

The Monty Python, I mean, that's British comedy. It's like, I guess you get it or you don't. I just thought, you know. The man wearing—

maybe it's above his head. Maybe he just doesn't understand the humor.

He's wearing an ascot. That's their target market right there.

But why is he wearing an ascot?

Alcohol, really. I think is really why, at Union Hall. So, um, yeah, maybe I need to go revisit some of the Monty Python, uh, classics and see if it, if it clicks with me. But so far, no.

We'll give you a pass. We can still be—

What about Jerky Boys? Do you like the Jerky Boys?

No, I wasn't a fan of the Jerky Boys, although we watch, uh, Impractical Jokers a lot. I don't know if you've seen that show on TruTV. That's a big, uh, show that my son and I watch, and, uh, I find that to be fun, kind of pranks and stuff like that.

So I have to say, um, for somebody who is as extroverted as you are and as much of a people person as you are, you work in IT, which has to be, uh, a record-setting, I think, to some degree. Because I know a lot of people that work in IT, and I don't know any of them that I would qualify as extroverts. So are you like, um, like a rare white elk in your field of, uh, of IT professionals?

Yeah, to a, to a degree. I think I'm not I'm not in the trenches coding or configuring servers or working on networks. I'm an analyst, so I, I really have to engage with people with the business area that I support. So much of my job is interacting with people and building relationships. And so that's, that's where— that's what I get to do, and that's what I, I love doing. So it's much more of a relational position that I have than, than a real technical position.

So like in the movie Office Space, you were the guy that worked with the customers so that the engineers wouldn't have to.

Is that a buffer? Maybe a buffer. Buffer.

Okay.

At times. Yeah. But yeah, so that's kind of what I do. Yeah. Yeah. It works out well.

See, we know each other so well. I know exactly what he does.

Yeah. Do you know where I work, Rob?

Is it Kroger?

What? Close. Close.

So. Anyway, this whole thing, I think the three of us have actually been, um, been okay during this whole process, but a lot of people aren't. And, you know, I said the other day to somebody that I'm— I think the hardest part for me is watching so many people like really struggle, you know, and it's getting harder every day. It's really, it's really, really sad to see.

Well, I think it's something that comes and goes. I posted This past week I had my moment. It was not a moment I'm proud of, and I'm hoping I don't have another one. But if I do, I will remember that I don't want to let it get as ugly as it got. But, you know, it's the unknown. It's the frustration of the unknown. For me, it was related to the application process for PPP and the EIDL and the bridge loan and all of these pieces. And that's not my role. So I'm not the one pushing the buttons and making sure the outcomes are are. So I have no idea where we are in the process other than asking Craig, and that's great. But, you know, I'm asking questions and I don't know the answers, and then he doesn't know the answers. And so I'm, I'm once removed from how far are we away from being able to get this stuff done. And I think that's where I kind of needed some reassurances, and there are none. You know, there is no, you know, there is no, there's no effort that I can put out right now that will say, okay, well, if you do this, this is going to, you know, result in X amount of, you know, revenue or client income or whatever it is going to be for our business. And my big number one thing is making sure my employees are not, you know, statistics among the millions that are in unemployment right now.

There's a guy in Texas, I forget his name, but he owns a lot of restaurants like Landry's and Morton's and all that whole chain. He was one of the first to furlough his employees, and his thought process was, then they'll be the first ones in line to get unemployment. So like, I thought about that because he said it the other day in an interview, and I said, wow, that's, that's an interesting way to do it. And then you wonder, well, now, well, if you're one of the employers who have struggled to pay your employees with whatever money that you've got stashed away, hoping that you'll get some of these federal programs, well, what if you don't? What if you run out and there's not enough, and then you have to lay them off, and now they're, they're number 2 million, uh, you know, out, out of, uh, uh, 2.1 million in line for, for benefits. You know, it's, it's a mess. I, I've heard that the stimulus money is supposed to be going out on Wednesday. I believe that when I see it. I don't know, but you know, it's, it is, uh, it's, it is rough.

In our very first, um, Zoom meeting with Representative Spano, um, I made a comment about, you know, he was saying how quickly this was going to turn around as soon as the law gets passed. You know, they've got it all set up so that you know, it will be quick. And I said, well, when has the government ever been quick? And he said, well, you know, it looks like they're all working together to make sure that it gets done. And, you know, yeah, how's that going for us?

Yeah, that, uh, that's a, uh, the best way I can put it when I don't want to rehash it. But yeah, the government is— again, it's all— it comes down to bureaucracy.

And because it's such a challenge and amount of— the amount of resources, though, the banks, especially the local banks and community banks, the amount of resources that they're going to allocate or they are allocating to just process this information, um, is now causing additional challenges. So sure, I don't— we don't need to belabor that. I know you didn't want to spend a whole lot of time on that, but that, you know, I, I shared very, very honestly and very transparently that I, you know, I had a moment and I broke. And I think it's also important at this point in time for us to feel like it's okay for us to not have it all figured out. You know, that's kind of why I shared it. I shared it 3 days after I broke, so I had some time to recover and bounce back and get my, my stuff in one pile. I didn't share it immediately like, oh my God, I'm freaking out, this is gonna be awful. But I, I wanted people to know that, you know, the smiling face on the Zoom meetings is also feeling the, the pain.

Like you did for— like you do for most things, you found a way to take something that was, in this case, personally challenging and then spin it and made it into something that is, I'll say, inspirational for other people to know that the person that they look at who thinks that, you know, this person has it together is also struggling, is also going through the same thing.

It was really cool. A lot of private messages from a lot of business leaders and others in the community sending me, you know, encouragement. But also, I feel that, you know, I feel the same way. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for just at least opening up a dialogue for something that many of us don't feel is leadership appropriate. I can't tell the world that I'm having a bad day, or I can't even let that even be shown. So it was— I was glad I shared it. I do tend to be a little bit more vulnerable than most people think or would recommend. But I think in this time, I think it's important that we all just let everyone know that we're all in this together.

I think, I think to your point, being vulnerable and authentic is very, very appealing. And especially, you're not the only one feeling this right now. So like you said, getting the encouragement that it's— there's definitely a silver lining to that cloud that you were under and in encouraging people in that. So I thought that was great.

Well, thanks. I appreciate it. And, you know, that wasn't very funny, though. You're supposed to bring levity to the conversation. Come on.

You're the three-legged dog for the, uh, you know, for the episode. No, I'm just kidding. No, but you know, a lot of people make judgments, right? So, you know, we, we talked a little bit about what Brad does, but suffice to say, I think his, his employer is one of the few that are, uh, actually hiring people at a pretty good clip right now. And, uh, I think his employment situation is, is pretty, is pretty solid at the moment. But it's easy to look at that and say, well, you don't have to worry about your job, you don't have to worry about unemployment. But he also has a wife that works in healthcare, which is a whole other can of worms, right? You know, so I think there's, there's an important thing that everybody needs to look at and go, well, instead of trying to compare your situation to somebody else's, these things are very dynamic. And just because you might not have to worry about losing a job But what if your wife is on the front lines of this whole thing, having to treat people who are potentially very, very sick? That's a stressor. That's a, that's a weight that you have to bear. And everybody in this, whether you've lost your job or, or not, whether you're in healthcare, whether you're a first responder, or whether you're just, you know, personally having a hard time being so isolated, everybody is going through something, right?

You know, and To the degree that, that my job appears to be secure working, working for Publix right now, and that stress is not on me, that I feel like that allows me to reach out or be a resource or do what I can to encourage, or I've had people applying at Publix, can I put your name down? Absolutely. Asking questions about that. Other friends that are coming to me saying that they may need to be finding a new job, and so if there's anything I can do with people I know and connections that I have, like, I'm all, I'm all there. So that gives me the ability and the time if I'm not worrying about my job to try to, to try to help others. And then, and then there certainly is stress with my wife being on the front lines as a nurse at the hospital, but it's also her passion and what she does a great job of, and I'm very proud of her. And, but it is, it can be scary, and it's just the decisions that are having to be made at the hospital. It is, I mean, it is, it's unprecedented. I mean, that word's getting used all over the place, but it's certainly true.

I think, I think it's, you know, it's important because the, the three of us, and I think that's probably one of the reasons that even though this seemed like a weird time for a lighthearted episode about, you know, just about whatever, One of those tie-ins is that the three of us, in our own way, from a slightly different position, is trying to do just that, is dealing with one complicated part of this whole process and then still trying to find a piece of yourself to then use to give somebody else a hand, you know, when you can. And that's probably why the three of us are friends and why maybe— I don't know that we ever even said it explicitly, but if there's anything that we could share equally from the three of us, I think it's that.

Yeah, I agree. I think we're, we're in that space of kindred spirits, but it goes beyond that in the sense that we see each other as individuals who care enough about the bigger picture of the community and how we're just merely players on the stage, you know, and, and doing everything that we can, but also recognizing that we need to lift each other up. And I It lifts my heart whenever I get a message from anyone who listens to the podcast and says, that was a good episode, or whatever. But I will tell you, as everyone knows, I wasn't prepared to be a podcaster. Um, so when I had my first fan and, you know, my, my first message of, you know, hey, this is my, my Wednesday morning ritual from Brad, I thought that's what I needed at that moment in time to say, all right, keep doing what you're doing. Um, and that's what I really just want to be able to do for others, is that We're doing whatever we need to do, whatever it takes, day by day, minute by minute. And I want to encourage others to just stay the course, just like some others have come along and said that to me.

I think Brad's been doing that since before the virus though too. I remember him inviting me out to hear a band play, like, "Hey, my friend's in this band, you should come." And I'm like, "All right, I guess, you know, we'll go." I'll go to this new place, listen to this band I've never heard of with a guy I barely know. Okay. Should be interesting.

Sounds like a great idea. Yeah. And I was thinking about that the other day too, because I don't meet strangers. Right. So as you said earlier, the extrovert in me just goes up to people and has this very easy conversation. That is me. That is just who I am. I actually feel most comfortable with people that I don't know, and the deeper relationships are a lot harder for me because I wonder sometimes, okay, now that you know me really well, are you ready to kick me out to the curb? Because it comes with a little bit of baggage. There are some nuances about Chrissanne that I am acutely aware of, but at the same time, I want people to connect in ways— I want to be able to connect person A to person B, and if I'm person C to make that happen, That's, that's what brings me my joy.

Well, Brad did that. We were out at, uh, uh, the Yard on Mass, I think that's where.

Yeah.

And, uh, listening to music, and then all these people show up that he works with, right? And I'm really, I'm an extrovert too, so I'm, I'm, hey, we're all friends now, you know. So then all of a sudden it's like a few minutes later, where's Brad? Well, the social butterfly is out gallivanting around and like going like little circles and talking to this person, that person, and I'm like looking around like, okay, well, I got these new friends, you know.

I knew you were in good hands. I needed to go. Yeah, I had to go visit some of my other, my other friends that were around, uh, around at the yard. But yeah, yeah, no, that happens.

Yeah.

And frequently.

Yeah. And it was, it wasn't, I, it wasn't anything wrong with it. I, I thought it was funny. And I, and I still, um, and I, every time I see those guys that, you know, it's like, hey, we're old friends now too. Uh, It's funny how when you kind of put yourself out there, um, you get to meet some, some great people who have great stories, like, like the cat door.

Oh my gosh, you thought—

I don't know what the cat door is all about, but that was quite fun.

So I'll tell the story because I said that we have to tell this story because it's so ridiculous. Why not put on a podcast for people everywhere to potentially hear? But, uh, A couple months ago.

Let me set it up for the audience just because I was an outsider. I had no idea what I was looking at, but we're setting up, scheduling this podcast recording and talking about what we're going to talk about. And I get this photo, which I didn't read Rob's request for the photo. So I just saw this photo of one cat upside down, or no, one cat close to the ground, cut out of a piece of wood, and then another one on a tall— it's a tall piece of wood, and then at the top is the upside-down cat. Um, and I, I don't know what I was looking at, but all I could think of, because then I went back up to read what Rob had said, it said something about a cat door. And I'm thinking, okay, so one cat has to fly through the top level of the board and one has to walk through. So we have like the, the acrobatic cat and the lazy cat. All right, now explain to me what exactly we were looking at.

Well, okay, so Brad can tell the whole story, but that's not the funny part because it actually is a very pragmatic, reasonable, measured thing that he did, doing something nice for somebody else.

Thank you, Rob.

His only mistake was hanging on to it. So, uh, me and another friend, we were at Brad's house a few months ago, and he's showing us all the stuff that he's done. He's this gorgeous back patio and all these upgrades they've done in the house, and out of all of that The one thing that caught our eye more than anything else, hanging above our heads in the garage, was this old door with two silhouettes, one on each end, of a cat cut out of it. And you look at that thing and you go, what on earth is that thing, number one? And then why is it here? So again, we felt compelled to ask. So Brad, you can fill them in on the story. And the—

yeah, sure. So a friend of mine, uh, Craig Morby, who was actually playing at the Art en Mass, I think the night that we were there, right? Yes, yes. And the band Bully for You.

Everything's connected.

Yes, everything's connected. Uh, so it— at his, at his house in the laundry room, there's a stairwell that goes next to it, and so there's a little room under the stairwell it's like a half door, and that's where the cat litter's gonna be. And so they can't, they want a door on there, they don't want it totally open all the time 'cause there's cat litter in there or whatever. And so Vicky, his fiancée, said, "Hey, can you, I found these things where people have cut out silhouettes of cats in doors as the cat door." And so I say, "Absolutely, I'd be happy to do it, no problem." So I go and get the door, But there's a lot of pressure, right? Because if I screw up on this door, I'm gonna have to go find a new door for them and paint it, and I don't want to mess it up.

And it was a specialty door, right? It's not something you can just grab.

Yeah, it's like a half-size door, you know. I don't— it— yeah, absolutely. You can't go to Lowe's and just go get this thing. So I had in my garage, uh, a door from my house that had been removed. It was in the garage when we bought the house 5 years ago, and I'm like, That's awesome. I can run some tests. So I did two patterns, one at one end and then one at the other to try to see how I could do this, you know, freehand drawing the cat and all that stuff. So, so that's what I did. And, and the mistake I made apparently is that I held on to it, which I did, and it's—

look how far that story has traveled.

No, it's great. Yes.

Thanks.

So that's, that's the cat door story. And, and then I did— I sent you pictures of the, the finished product. In the, in the laundry room.

Looks excellent, by the way.

Yeah, we'll have to put that in the show notes, by the way.

Great, great.

And if you're listening to this, Brad will gladly make one for you as well, in any shape.

So, circling back to Vicki and Craig, because the last time I talked to them, they were getting married in April. Did, did they go ahead and tie the knot, or Is that still ahead of us?

Well, so I, I sadly I had to delete the, the bachelor party calendar item on my phone yesterday. It was that we're supposed to have a bachelor party this past Friday. Wedding was supposed to be this coming Sunday, um, and, uh, 20s attire, so the Ascot was gonna be perfect for it. Um, not that that's the biggest tragedy of the wedding not happening. So they, they are, from what I understand in my conversations, they're still going to get married, but it's, it's going to be a completely different, you know, concept or, uh, very small or whatever. And then, and there will certainly be something when we get on the other side of this, whatever that, whenever that is and whatever that looks like. But, um, So yeah, so we're very sorry to have to postpone that, not get to be a part of that during this time.

Yeah, and that's one of those things, you know, life is just on pause and yet everything's piling up on that pause button. You know, it's like, it's not like when you hit the play button, it's just going to play the music exactly as it would have played if you continued the cassette, because I'm thinking my mind is focused on the old school cassette right now. You hit the play button and it's going to be like, and then everything's going to play.

Thanks for that new sound effect.

I won't ask you to repeat that sound. It was great.

Have you been on a Zoom where someone's connection is bad and, and they suddenly start talking really, really, really fast to like so it can catch up with itself? That's what I was trying to— yes, replicate.

Absolutely. Yeah, one of the— talking about getting on the other side of this and what this looks like, I think for the hard part of that is that this isn't like a hurricane where it passed through, it's out in the Gulf now, and we can get back to normal. Like, who's gonna hold the first concert?

Yeah.

When's the— what— and so on that vein, one of the things I love to do is support local musicians, and I have concerts, concerts, house concerts at my house. When I'm— I don't know when I'm gonna be able to safely say, "All right, come on, you know, 60 people on my patio, we're having a concert." I don't know when that, when does that become the responsible or the acceptable thing to do, or I host bourbon nights on my patio. I've got 128 people that I invite to come have bourbon on my patio and see cat doors, yes. I don't know when I get to do that again, and that's That kills me with regard to the types of things that I love to do here in town to engage with the community. I'm not able to do those now, so we're trying to find other ways like doing virtual cocktail parties and having fun on the Lakeland Drinks group. I think we've talked— you've talked about it before on the podcast. What I mean, that is— that's a great release to get to connect with people. Yes, well, it's lots of fun. And, and just the, the levity that we, that we need during this time. Um, well, anyway, that's gonna look—

I mean, like, so let's talk about that. I mean, I know what the experts say, at least I kind of know because I stopped listening to it. I can't do it.

What are we talking about? What's, what's what gonna look like?

The other side of this. Oh, it's like you, like you said with that so eloquent, uh, sound stream.

Yeah, when do we get to the end of that sound?

It's gonna be a long one.

I only stopped because I had to laugh at your facial That's why this platform with video might be, might be the better of the two that we test here. So, but I think, you know, when you turn it back on, it isn't going to start right back up like it was before. And I would say that the longer this pause goes, the longer and more difficult it will be for that startup to, you know, to happen. And I, I heard something the other day, I think, well, I think, Chrissanne, you, you shared it with me and I had thought about it in a different way, but this kind of quantified it and it really made sense. That scary graph that we saw, like with the, the giant spike, that if we don't do the social distancing and this massive shutdown, that the amount of people that would be infected and deaths would be like 2 million people because it would overrun our healthcare system. And I, I tend to think that there is a valid point there because while I think this virus has been here for many more months than we thought. I do think that the rate of infection, that was a legitimate concern, and I don't, I don't know that I don't, that I disagree with doing what they did. However, when I hear this going on 6 weeks, potentially longer, um, of this shutdown, I don't think we can do that. I, I don't. And, and when you look at that graph, the point was that the shaded area in that graph, when you flatten the curve, well, the tail of that curve just goes out longer and longer and longer. And underneath there, and that, that shaded group represents all the people that are going to catch this virus at some point, still going to get infected. Yeah, so it doesn't really change. None of what we're doing really changes the, the fact that X number of people are likely going to get infected. The only thing that it changes is the rate at which they get infected. And if you overrun the healthcare system to the point where there's no excess capacity, well, then you have other problems. When people have heart attacks and strokes, they can't get access to care either. So you have multiple reasons that the death rate will spike, not even just from the virus itself. So I get having to do something about it, but we have to confront the idea that months from now, people are going to get this virus. People here in Lakeland, people, you know, all around. And that's a very real thing, and we cannot hide under a rock. Like Brad said, this isn't a hurricane. We cannot just hide in the cave, shut everything down, and then emerge a few months later and think that we're out of the woods, because we're not.

It's a, it's a very challenging dichotomy, to use your word, which is now we've got this word two very opposing views about what action needs to happen. And one is health and safety of our families, you know, being able to survive, get through this and not die. And then the other is how to keep our local economy alive. Because in some cases, the stress, the strain, the pain, the challenge that comes from losing everything, not having a way to build that back up is another death. I mean, it is, it's economic death, or it might be, you know, the suicide rate goes up or something, not to be, you know, all morbid, but I feel like these are the two things. And so what you have is people who are advocating for, we need to start looking at how we're going to open things back up. And then we have the other group of people shaming those folks for saying your livelihood is not as important as your health. And I believe that they are one and the same. I feel like we're having this argument, but it isn't separate. It is all one thing, and we're not informed enough, and our leadership isn't getting the message out to us enough in a good enough way that we're all able to be hearing the same message, because some people are hearing the media message and some people are listening to more fact-based information, and those are in conflict. As they always are, but now it's creating almost a civil war between the people who are wanting to go back to life as normal and the, the others who are, you know, wanting to stay down hunkered in the, in the cave for a few more months.

I think the way that you solve that is, right, 80,000 people last year died because of drug overdoses. 80,000 people. That is now higher than the forecasted death rate from COVID-19 nationally. So what you have to look at is how many people do we expect to potentially relapse into drugs and alcohol abuse as a result of being unemployed. Low levels of unemployment are a very positive thing for a country. It improves health outcomes, it improves life expectancy, all of these things. Economic well-being is incredibly tied to health and life and quality of life as well. And you just look at any other poor country in the world and you could see that it's not just because we have access to healthcare and all. There's a lot of things that play into it. The issue is that there's a lot of politics involved. And as much as I love politics, I can't even stomach the conversations right now. But I think How you get past that is those who are shaming, who are saying everybody just stay home, if you don't stay home you're an evil person, and if you want people to go back to work you're just a greedy, you know, rich person, business owner, whatever. What we have to do is essentially bridge that gap and get through to them that number one, people are going to get this. As Brad said, there's no hurricane, there's no other side of it, it's just sometime in the future.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. And, and then make them realize as well that there's also a consequence to what we are doing here. And it's not just economic.

And it takes me to the chat we had with Chad McLeod, Commissioner Chad McLeod, earlier this week as well, where we spent a lot of time and energy and resources on, you know, when you, when you think about the hierarchy of needs, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, what do we need to survive? We need air, we need shelter, we need food. These are the things we need to actually actually physically survive. Um, running around a lake or going to a park is not a physical need that we need to be able to survive. So I'm bringing that up because I know Brad has some, some strong thoughts.

If you read The Ledger, you go on Facebook, you wouldn't know that that wasn't, that wasn't one of those basic needs.

But my point is, my point is we saw the response our local leaders had and the amount of time it took for them to make a decision. And that was something that wasn't essential. That was, I mean, it's essential. It's hard because I'm having the, you know, you don't want to say something.

I love that, Chrissanne Long, tread lightly.

I mean, I went for a run and you know, the cool thing to me, I went for a run today and I live I live just off the lake and I normally just go straight off my street, start running around the lake. And I said, today, let me just go find a new path. Let me just run on sidewalks and go down streets and get to know my neighborhood a little bit better. And that was my response to people who were saying, well, how could you shut down Lake Hollingsworth? Well, get out of your house and just run in your neighborhood. That's me. That's what my adaptive personality would say instead of, let me carry my pitchfork. But I think the reality is when we get to the point discussion and the economic side of things is the argument, not the emotional, the personal, the what do I want, what's inconvenient, or any of that. We're going to have to have our leaders stand strong and say we're doing this because this is the best thing for our community. Even if, I mean, even though this, that we're not being told to do it, we're doing it for the greater good of the community. So chime in, Brad, because we've been like acting like it's just the two of us and there's this really funny person on the show here for a purpose.

Well, I mean, you know what, you alluded to the Hollingsworth thing. I run Lake Hollingsworth 6 days a week, and we were able to find another, another route the day that they, the day that they closed it. And it's— we're doing Lake Morton, we're going downtown, we're going around Lake Mirror, and, and we figured out a way to do it without, you know, without having the government have to help us find another place to run or do our thing. So that's one of the things that kind of frustrated me. Again, the amount of time, and Commissioner McCarley, you know, seemed frustrated, I think rightfully so. This is our third meeting that we've spent the entire, almost the entire meeting talking about parks. We need to, there's more pressing needs, and so I'm glad that they made the decision and it got done. And like you said, there's an opportunity to make some decisions locally instead of waiting for it to come down from the state. I think, you know, once the state says something, then you can just say, okay, that's what they've said and we're going to go with it, which is certainly there's that, that can be done and that's fine. That's kind of what we ended up doing. With regard to the options that the City Commission has now, what I don't know is what can they do that they can't relax the rules or the order, I don't think. So within the bounds of what the state has come down with, I don't know exactly what our options are, who can, you know, who can open, what's essential. I don't know that the Commission determines that, but what Rob brought up on the call with Chad McLeod earlier this week is when the state lifts it and says, hey, we're gonna let the communities, the counties, the cities come up with what they want to do, we need to be prepared to know what we're going to do. And I think, I think Chad took that point very well and took it to heart. And, and hopefully they'll, they'll be discussing that if and when that happens.

I hope so, because I certainly didn't want to put it all on, on, uh, on Chad. I mean, it is a, it is a commission, it's not one guy.

Sure.

But I really do hope that they have gamed this out, that every single time that they've they meet from now on, the thought process is, what do we do when that order comes down?

What we can do locally from the local leadership standpoint, it's narrative. It's controlling the narrative and the messaging of how we are— what are we communicating to our constituents and how are we managing that message. So we have seen, we have seen it in the last couple of years with various issues, and I don't even want to bring up what those issues are. Fill in the blank with whatever issue you want it to be. And we, we take a lot of time to listen to the very loud minority, and the silent majority is quietly sitting by going, what is going on? Like, that is how I see a lot of things that have been going on. And I've never said this out loud, and I don't know how this is going to come out right now because it's It's me saying there's a lot more to speaking out with social media being what it is these days. That is more, there's more fear of saying what I believe than just sitting back and letting someone else who I disagree with just say whatever it is that they wanna say. And so now at some point in time, if the narrative is we need to get our community back to work Not today, but we need to start talking about how we're going to do that and what that's going to look like. And that is going to be a priority. We can get behind that message and we can start coming up with brainstormings and discussions about that particular topic. But we're not having that conversation yet. And I know that this is— it's still early, you know, but I hear the critical— that mission, you know, when you get to a point, when it gets to a point where you're at the end and your voice is at that really high, high pitch when you're really, really upset and you're really, really worried and you're about to lose it. That's where we are in the sense of this community. I'm hearing it in the voices of the business owners that I'm listening to. The tears are coming. The fear is there. It's tangible. It's real. And when we're seeing that bubbling to the surface, it's not something that we can continue to avoid. And so I'm not saying— I'm not advocating for opening up and everything being back to normal tomorrow or next week, but we need to be starting that discussion and publicly preparing ourselves for the fallout of that discussion, that there will be people who are against that until whoever at the top says it's okay for us to do so.

We can't do this much longer. We cannot do this.

Now for the, for the silent majority that you were talking about, and them communicating and getting their voices out there. How would, how would you propose the most effective way to do that, or what, if somebody wanted to, how would you suggest they do that? I mean, there is social media, you know, certain people see that, many people don't, don't see it, and whether that actually reaches the people that can make the decisions or need to hear what they're trying to say. What, Chrissanne and Rob, I don't know what you would recommend.

Well, my response to that, and I had a follow-up with Chad after that, you know, we need to open up channels. We need to, it can't just be send an email. Well, send an email about what? It's just an open-ended email about everything that I believe and think and feel right now and expecting people who are in this particular state to take the time to put all of those thoughts together. So we need to open a channel of questioning, you know, Where are you? What is your, what is your current status? How are you handling this? How many days do you, what's your cash flow runway look like? How many days can you get through before, you know, everything's going to go away? I mean, the answer is it doesn't have to be a public forum where everybody's got to put themselves out there, but we need to be asking questions in some way or some fashion. There are civic engagement tools that I know exist, um, that, that I've explored that allow people to submit their information. Sometimes it can be anonymously. Anonymously is not the answer. I think people need to be accountable for their thoughts so that we can gather that data and be able to hold them accountable to those thoughts. But somewhere that's a little bit safer for the people who have an opinion or a thought to chime in. I think that's just— and I don't know exactly what that looks like. It could just simply be a SurveyMonkey link or something that we're putting together, but some channel that says, Where are you and what do you need right now?

Sure.

As we get close to wrapping up, I think we talked a lot more than we planned to, and we really wanted to have Brad share, you know, some of his awesome personality. So you want to give us some of your favorite quarantine jokes, or you got anything?

You know, the Joe Exotic stuff, I think, man, how awesome is that, that that came out? At this time. Um, and I, I think I heard that there's going to be like, there's going to be a follow-up maybe on Fox or something. They're doing like a 1-hour or 2-hour follow-up thing. So that's— I'm excited, excited for that.

Um, excited for Joe Exotic.

Okay.

Oh yeah, but you love Joe Exotic.

Well, you can't— yeah. Oh my gosh, I mean, you couldn't make up Joe Exotic if you tried.

This is true.

I mean, it's, it's just unbelievable.

He's the hero that we need. He's not the hero that we wanted, but in these trying times with a crisis like this, he's the hero that we needed.

Oh yeah, to distract us.

Well, Brad, thanks for being on the show. I think that you're, uh, definitely gonna have to come back because this was definitely fun. You don't necessarily have to wear the ascot, but it is a nice touch.

I'm not gonna wear the ascot every single time.

I'm trying to get you off the hook here.

I can accommodate that request. Thanks so much for having me. It was a great time.

All right, everybody, thanks for listening. And remember, we have a new episode each week, so be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. And remember to leave us a review. We promise to read every one. You can always find all of our episodes at elevatepulk.com. And if there's something you want to hear about on an upcoming episode, reach out to us on Facebook at Elevate Pulk.