The Carrot or the Stick?

This is the Elevate Polk Podcast, and I'm your host, Chrissanne Long, after way too long with, as always, Rob Arturi. But not for long.

I know. Where am I going?

Well, you've already gone.

You kicked me to the curb.

Well, we had this, like, really great time of COVID recorded episodes, and that was great for you because you didn't have to edit it. No, you're right. I didn't. But you made it happen. And it was— it was hard because I couldn't see your face. So we're actually now back in the studio. So let's tell everybody where we are. What's— what's happening?

Yeah. So we're back in the same studio, but in a different location, in another time and place. It's still Lakeland. Well, it's still the same time zone, but yes, a different place. You're right, we are in the Maximize offices now.

Yeah, so we will share some pictures and maybe in the show notes or something that shares a little bit about what, uh, what has transpired over the last— when was the last time we had an episode? August?

Oh my, yeah, it's been a few months.

December. So the last time we recorded, you were gainfully self-employed.

Yeah, I was. I was a, I was still an entrepreneur.

Yes. Well, you still are. I mean, you still have, you can't, you can't take the entrepreneur out of the person.

That's true. That's true. Still, I think it gets in your blood.

Yeah.

But no, I about, At the time that we wrapped up our last episode, I accepted a position at Lakeland Regional Health and I absolutely love it. And it's a great, great thing to be a part of an organization that's local. It's not one of these big conglomerates that's based in another state, whatever. It truly is a local thing. We've done things on the show about that where we talk about the, whether it's our transit or, you know, power utility, having that be a Lakeland or a Polk-centric thing, right, is really important.

And what better place for you to elevate Polk but through healthcare?

Well, that's true.

That's true. And you're doing some great things. So, so do you want to share a little bit about the role that you're taking and the things that you've been doing since then, or?

Yes, I am making balloon animals and the children— no, I'm just kidding. No, my other background was healthcare. So for 10 years I ran a healthcare administration company and the position I'm in now is pretty much the same way. It's working with the medical staff office, that sort of thing. So I won't bore you with this.

Yeah, I think, guys, he's wearing a tie.

Now, if you know me, you know that that's something I missed very, very much for a very long time.

Well, now you get to have that back. But when I knew you, As long as I've known you, you have not been a tie-wearing fella.

That's true. It's, it's, you know, you kind of feel naked without it. But when I was a detective, I wore a shirt and tie every day. And then when I went into business for myself, it just seemed a little bit, I don't know, unnecessary. I wasn't dealing with customers every day.

A little extra.

Yeah. And then you just, you know, you kind of get a little, little casual. Nothing wrong with that. But the idea of having to go back and wear a shirt and tie And I don't even have to wear a tie.

Do you shine your shoes?

Oh yeah. Don't look today. 'Cause I didn't. It's Christmas. Yeah. I have a ritual. So shout out to Nathan's because when they were closing up, I went in and bought virtually, no, literally every pair of size 13 Florsheim shoes they had. So. Wow.

I have them. So the guy who came in after you that had a 13, was out of luck.

Well, he— I didn't buy every pair of 13s that they had. I just bought one of every pair in 13s with a few exceptions. But suffice to say, I have a pretty nice shoe collection for an amazing deal. But I do, I regularly shine all of my shoes. It makes a difference. People notice that stuff.

In my previous life, that was a part of my ex-husband's regular routine. Process, you know, shining his shoes. Now, Craig, when I met him and when our relationship started, he was in construction. So there wasn't a real need to shine shoes for that job. He was pretty much like, I just need a new pair every year because they get worn out on the job site.

Right. Well, it's a little different. You know, I came from when I was in law enforcement, when you're in a patrol function, having shined shoes is Well, it's supposed to be a requirement. I don't know if everybody takes it to that extent, but—

Do you have inspection?

Oh yeah, you did. You did. It was like quarterly. It wasn't every day. My old lieutenant has a couple of funny stories about that.

Well, maybe we should have a conversation someday about the best ways to shine your shoes, but that's not today's episode.

No. We're going to segue away. A little hard to do on an audio podcast to just describe somebody shining shoes.

We're going to segue over to some conversations that have taken place. And, you know, we talked— so if you listen to the podcast about the podcast, which was our very first episode, you kind of hear the backstory of where we were, where we started, and why we were starting a podcast and how we got here. And you'll, you'll know that I was not like a very willing party to this discussion. Rob and I built a relationship over several, probably about a year ish or more. And he said, you know, we should do a podcast. And I laughed at him. I didn't think that that was going to be a direction for me because I'm not— I don't know, I wasn't at that point in time listening to many podcasts and that wasn't a part of my regular habits. That's changed since the very first episode.

The one instance where you were not an early adopter.

Yeah, I don't— and I don't— you know, the real reason is I don't have a vehicle with Bluetooth or any kind of radio that allows me to listen to podcasts easily. So I have to do the whole like turn on my cell phone at full blast.

So you have one of those like cassette tapes with the cord?

No cassette, but CD player. Yeah, it's so old that it doesn't even have an adapter to like plug in an aux cable.

That's why you get the tape. The tape. Oh, so you're, you're in that weird period between when they stopped—

player, no cassette. Oh yeah.

And no, no audio jack.

Right, right. So I was not able to really fully embrace the podcast revolution because I didn't have an easy means to listen. It was kind of out of the way. Like, I would have to listen on my phone sitting in a quiet room or something, and not really— it was just not a part of my habits. So fast forward, you talked me into it. We started our podcast, and I've caught the bug. I'm in. I love it. I listen to several podcasts, and I will share some of them in a minute. Then as this transition for you started to come along, and one of the challenges with us over the time that we've been recording is, has been, I'm generally, as if anyone who knows me knows, I'm generally really focused toward entrepreneurship and small business. And when we would discuss topics, conversations, guests, Rob wasn't necessarily like all in, like the whole podcast was going to be about entrepreneurship and small business. So we had to find that balance. And so we did, we found some really great guests and we had some really great conversations about various things going on around the county. But with this transition now, I feel like if this Elevate Polk podcast is going to continue, it's going to have to serve a little bit more of that fuel in my heart toward the topic of small business and entrepreneurship. So with that being said, we are going to shift our topics to be more primarily focused on entrepreneurship and small business in Polk County. And I'm super excited about that because I could talk for days and days and days about entrepreneurship and small business.

So what you're saying is I was what's standing between you and talking for days and days and days.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

So if you're listening to this, Chrissanne Long has essentially tied my hands and feet and has taken control. She has hijacked the Elevate Polk. I'm kidding, of course.

No, not at all. I reached out and said, hey, Rob, what are we going to do with the podcast? And he admitted that, you know, the new job and the new— the new direction of his life is kind of making it more difficult for him to be able to record. And then he also, because of the new job, doesn't have the office space that he used to have. So he needed to find a new home for the podcast booth, which just so happens— just so happens. And so everybody, I want you to know, I love podcasting so much that I gave up my entire office so that this podcast could be here in our office space.

And my giant booth that began its life on my screened-in porch and has moved around more times than I ever anticipated has a lovely home here at Maximize. But no, the truth is I wanted, you know what, you always want to do everything. You want to keep doing everything. You don't ever want things to change. You don't want to give up on things. And I don't necessarily think I ever wanted to, I ever contemplated giving up on the show, but you have to be practical. Something has to give. And for me, as much as this was you and I in this show, I truly do think that the, the mission of it and what it brings, because nobody wants to just listen to me yak for the entire thing. There was a lot of what you were bringing to the show was very important. It needed to be highlighted. It was a positive thing. It was a good thing. And probably now more than ever, as we hopefully emerge from this pandemic funk in the next 6 months.

COVID cloud.

Yeah. I think you'll need that more than ever to kind of right the ship and kind of get things going. So it would break my heart to see that everything that we did and built literally in this booth and figuratively in just the hours that we spent doing these podcasts and the amazing people that lent us their time and their experiences, it would just break my heart to see all that go to waste and just to just stop completely. And I'm not enough of a control freak to say, well, if it's not with me, then it's not, you know.

Right. By golly, I'm taking my podcast and my marbles and going somewhere else.

That was amazing.

That was pretty good.

You managed to include the by golly reference and a reference to the ridiculous marbles in one sentence. One sentence. That's impressive.

I'm a pro, guys.

You don't need me anymore. I just press a button and we go.

No, but you have been an incredible part of this journey, and you will continue to be a part of this journey, you know, as we go. And the fun part's going to be like, when are we going to have a Rob sighting? And you'll never know until you turn on the episode and, hey, look, we've got Rob today.

Yeah. Which will either make you listen more intently or just go, I'll catch it next week.

Everybody that I've talked to, and my mom is included in this discussion, She, when I, when I mentioned you, I don't remember, we were talking about something. It wasn't podcast related, but I mentioned my friend Rob. She goes, oh, I know Rob. I'm like, they haven't even met, but my mom knows Rob because she listens to the show.

Well, that's me.

That's a, that's a huge testament. My mom doesn't like everybody. She only likes the good people.

Oh, well, thanks, mom.

Yeah.

I appreciate it.

So, um, the next steps. What is the next frontier going to look like? And so just gonna carve it out in my vision and what I've shared with you, Rob, and what I've shared with, you know, so we have with the interception of this podcast booth in our office, we also now have the equipment and the opportunity to make this a little bit more available than it was. So I, in our previous season, this is the end. Basically, this is the end of season 1. That's kind of what I'm, what I'm suggesting here. And so season 2 is just around the corner. But when we would, when we would record, it required me leaving my office, going to meet Rob, sitting down, recording, recording a few episodes, and then, you know, figuring out when the next schedule was going to be. The now opportunity is the podcast booth in my office gives me a lot more time to focus on days that we're going to record and opportunities to do it more frequently and even maybe opportunities to have more shows, different topics, different podcasts. And so I'm introducing— she's sitting here, so we can't just not talk about the Annie in the room. Annie Ortiz joined our team earlier this fall and she brings with her a lot of experience in the media and production. Side of things. So she's going to be helping with video and podcast editing and a lot of other things that are going to be extremely important to the sustainability of this show. Because if it were left to me, there would be absolutely no podcast because I wouldn't know what to do with any of this stuff. So Annie, welcome. Surprise. I didn't, I didn't tell you you were going to actually be on the show.

You did not even plan this.

No, I knew I was going to bring you in. I just didn't want you to be nervous.

Oh, and now I'm so nervous, but I just want to set the record straight. Good plan.

Yeah, always.

Just want to set the record straight that I was Annie Ortiz.

Ah, that's right.

Now I'm Annie Yulee.

See, I haven't even gotten used to it because we call Annie AO in the office, but she came to us and then a month later got married to Thomas, who's an awesome young man, and, uh, Maybe we'll have him on the show. You know, we will. We all live in Lakeland. We do. And Polk County is our home, so we're elevating it together. So welcome to the family. Welcome to the podcast, Annie. And we'll have you share— sharing some things along the way, I'm sure.

Now I'm going to mute Annie.

Dang it, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay, Annie? So what's next? Where are we going? What are we doing?

You tell me. I'm just along for the ride now.

Yeah. Well, so the reality is I want to talk about entrepreneurship. I want to talk about small businesses and I want to talk about the role that they play in Polk County. I want to talk about the journey of a lot of our entrepreneurs and small businesses in our community of all walks of life. And, you know, when you talk to an entrepreneur, You ask them some basic questions like, when did you start your business? You know, in some cases, how many businesses do you have? Because there are a lot of serial entrepreneurs as well. Some people have side hustles, some people do it full-time, some people are just getting started, some people have been doing it for years. And everybody's story is unique and different and special and important, and it all impacts Polk County. The truth is that entrepreneurs and small businesses are responsible for more of a net new jobs in an economy than any other industry or any other enterprise. So when you think of net new jobs, you're thinking of, you know, jobs that didn't exist last year that exist now. And we are responsible for those jobs. And sometimes it's just our own job that we start with, and then we hire one person, and then we hire another person. And then pretty soon, you know, we have a team of 8 or 9 or 10. And so those journeys, those stories are going to be captured here on the podcast. But as we evolve into this space, I'm also looking at who are the other podcast conversations that we can bring in, you know, because we're a podcast, we don't need to have them physically in our location. Rob taught me how it would work if we were doing a a, uh, what do you call it, a virtual, you know, uh, conversation. And so we can invite guests from other communities and also other people in the, in the entrepreneurship development world and bring them in and let them tell their stories. Um, so I, I, one of the podcasts that I listen to on a regular basis is the Keystone Podcast, and it is specifically about Hold on. It is specifically about entrepreneurship and ecosystem building. And ecosystem building for entrepreneurs is a new effort across the country, inspired by many different individuals and what we've learned through people like Brad Feld and Victor Hwang and the Kauffman Foundation and all of the, all of the incredible energy going on in Kansas City and other cities, Boulder, Colorado. Is that each community is completely unique and different from the other. So you can't take a program that's working in one city and plop it down in another and expect it to work because the entrepreneurs, the ecosystem, the culture, the community is different. So that insight and that information coming from all over the country is my goal, is to bring guests from various different parts of the community together and share their stories and also inspire the entrepreneurship, the ecosystem building that we want to do here in Polk County. So that's the vision. That I have. And, and Rob, you're going to be a part of that because you still, like I said, you can't take the entrepreneur out of the person. So you're still going to be an incredible part of this conversation as we go.

Yeah, I, I'm still pretty involved in a lot of different ways in the community, and I intend to keep it that way. I may not be a small business owner, however, I still care very much. I mean, as a citizen, and we have a lot of people that listen to the show that were not business owners, but I think that—

They're just here for the entertainment value.

Oh, that's right.

For the jokes.

And the marbles.

The marbles.

But I think, you know, they're, like I said, people who are listening aren't all business owners, but they can appreciate. I think a lot of people do understand the value that small business, local business brings. And I think we all want to see that grow and be fostered and everybody benefits from it, whether you work for a big company or a small company, everybody benefits from that. I mean, we all look around and say, well, oh, this opened up, this, that opened up. I've become quite fond of ax throwing.

Yes, Axcalibur, Joyce and Craig.

I've been to one in, Brandon, which was very nice. One in Orlando, which was, eh, it was okay. And I was so excited to see that they are, they opened one right here in Lakeland.

Mm-hmm.

So it may be a silly little thing. No, not to me. It's not. And if you don't like it, you better watch out cuz I've become pretty adept with a hatchet. But, but that said, it's, it's people taking entrepreneurial risk in your community that propels the community forward.

Right.

Okay. There's a lot of big, you know, entities in this county, Publix and Saddle Creek and Lakeland Regional Health. There are a lot of big employers out there, but ultimately what really pushes things forward is the injection of creativity and economic growth from small businesses, people willing to take a chance and bet their savings and their time and their future on an idea. And we should never— I don't care whether you've been in the corporate world for 25 years, you don't have the luxury of, of really believing that that's insignificant.

Right. You adapt. You absolutely don't. We as a community, and COVID has brought it full circle, you know, right in our faces. You see a lot more today of shopping local, buying local, supporting local than you probably saw 12 months ago. And, you know, it's one of those things that's almost like pushing a rope. You know that it needs to happen. It needs to move. Things need to happen to shift the spotlight into the direction of the impact that small businesses have. But because we're all so unique and scattered, we don't have a unified voice. And when I speak of entrepreneurship and think about the inclusion conversation, you know, a lot of talk about inclusivity has been a part of our conversations on previous episodes, but people who have been around me long enough to know that I really do really want to help people have that awareness that they have a voice at the table. And when I think about entrepreneurs, I think about the women-led businesses that are in the community that are kind of our unsung heroes, the veteran-owned businesses, the Black-owned businesses, Hispanic-owned businesses. I'm Cuban and most people don't even know that. And it's, it's It's that soul that I have of, you know, just recognizing the scrappiness that entrepreneurs have and where that comes from within me isn't something that I was, you know, aware of until I became an entrepreneur. And so it's really wanting to highlight, highlight those stories. And really to me also putting— it's frustrating anymore for me to hear that small businesses are the backbone of the economy. Because to me, that's just a lot of talk and there isn't a lot of effort or energy focused behind those words.

Oh, hold on. A couple of things. Let me unpack some of that.

Yeah.

So I know where you're going with this because every time there's some big, uh, legislative trickle-down nonsense, nobody really seems to care. Um, but I will say that I was really impressed with our community when at the height of this epidemic, number one, our local entrepreneurs were being resourceful and adaptive to the situation. But number two, people were going, at least people that I know, maybe I associate with people who are hyper-local, but were really embracing supporting those local businesses. I think it really did make an impact on people. And you can't expect people in Tallahassee or in Washington to think about these things the same way that we are. That's the reason that I really want this show to continue because you're never going to get that. That's just not how the system is built.

Right.

The other thing I wanted to ask is, well, I'll back up. You know, you and I have different, different approaches to the minority side of things. It's not that I don't care about those things. It's just for me, I think entrepreneurial tendencies, entrepreneurial mindset, transcends all of those other immutable characteristics, race, ethnicity, gender, all of that stuff to me goes out the window because if you truly are an entrepreneur in spirit, none of that stuff should hold you back. And it is one of those things that, you know, I had this conversation the other day about, uh, in certain environments, like when we were at the Podfest convention, right?

Right.

There was a tremendous range of people there. All cultural, political, ideological, I mean, what a huge spectrum. But I was amazed because people really got along really well. And there wasn't bickering or fighting. And you know, people had very different views, sharp differing views on many things. But what joined all of them together, and I think what we have to relearn in this country overall is that those, those common interests can unify people. They can bridge those gaps that we create socially, economically, all of these things. Those common interests can bridge those things. And it's the same thing for entrepreneurs. And I think that it's important that we look at that and say, well, all right, I get it. And I'm not saying we shouldn't highlight people and promote people of diverse backgrounds and make sure that the, that everybody does have equal access. But I think ultimately for me, what it comes down to is everybody deserves an equal opportunity. Outcomes will never be equal because nothing is ever fair or equal in the world. But that doesn't mean you don't try. That doesn't mean you don't put forth the effort. Lastly, pushing a rope. What ridiculous games did you play growing up? Marbles, throwing oranges at one another and Pushing ropes? I mean, this is like 18th century type stuff.

Have you ever tried pushing a rope?

I have not.

I'm pushing the microphone cable or the headphone cable just to kind of illustrate, but—

I had a Nintendo Game Boy. I played Tetris. The ropes were not a thing, but—

Wait, you're not that much younger than I am.

No, I'm not. You had Atari. That's not the point. I know.

ColecoVision.

And yet you chose to push ropes and play with oranges.

I have only seen pushing ropes illustrated not— it's not a pastime. It would be just a painful thing to have to try to do. It's kind of like watching paint dry.

I'm just making fun of your metaphor.

Annie was here the other night watching paint dry, and that was just as much fun as pushing a rope. So, yeah, no, but you're— so I think we're, we're So aligned in, like you said, it's our approaches that are different, but I think for me, I see it as the chicken or the egg, you know, the conversation, like it's entrepreneurs are born or entrepreneurs are made, you know, that dialogue, there's really no right answer to the question, but it's the reality comes from my own personal journey, my own story. I shared that a little bit with our team today, because like I've shared before, I never really thought or never really saw that in myself. And it was out of kind of necessity that I found myself being an entrepreneur. It wasn't like, hey, I've got this really great idea and I'm gonna go start a business and I've got the capital and I've got all the wherewithal. I've got the background, I've got the education to do it. So yeah, there's grit, there's hustle, there's integrity. There's a lot of things that have to happen in order for an entrepreneur to succeed. My approach, which differs slightly, very, very slightly, it's just a subtle difference. But my approach is really about the encouragement that leads someone to believe that they can. And I don't know that we do well enough at that front stage, that early stage, that before you launch a business, do you think that there's people around you in your community that are going to support you and encourage you? Because I know when I turned the switch on and I shared, hey, I've started a business, everybody, I felt like I had 3 heads. Maybe that was my own perception, but I didn't get a whole lot of support from the group of people that I had been surrounded by. Up until that point because most of them had no understanding of what entrepreneurship was. Or maybe they just couldn't tell me, Chrissanne, that's a far-fetched idea. There's no way you're ever going to be able to succeed as an entrepreneur. And they just didn't want to tell me. I don't know. But whatever was going on at the time that I was launching a business or starting into this world, it felt a little bit lonely. And so my hope is that the Elevate Podcast will give people a feeling that they're not alone.

Yeah. So I point out the difference between you and I for one reason, not to, you know, not to create conflict, but rather to say that we can have different approaches. We can have different views on some things and we can still not only be good friends, but we can also be productive together.

Right.

And that's something that again is missing overall on a macro scale. But our community is no exception. Now our approaches are a little more carrot versus stick. You're more carrot, I'm more stick. My motivation is a little different. And I think in some ways the reason I loved doing this show with you is because we didn't agree, because I think people need to hear it and get context. Because I think some people need that encouragement to say, hey, listen, we're out here, we're supportive, we'll hold your hand. And then some people need to hear somebody say, just cut the excuses, cut the crap. And if you really want it, go do it. And then go look for people who are doing it too.

Right.

And you'll find that those resources, it just depends on who you are.

Yeah.

Right. Doing it all my way would miss a large chunk of people. Doing it all your way, the same thing.

Right.

So the beauty of this was to to touch on all of those.

Your favorite word, the dichotomy.

I was trying not to use that word.

Don't worry, I will use it for you. But yeah, that's the, that's the part of this beautiful world that is that everyone's unique approach and everyone's unique perspective adds a lens of diversity, adds a lens of something. Hey, you know, I hadn't thought about that. And that's what you make me think. You help me see things from a different perspective. And most of the people that I have candid, open dialogues with are that for me.

And we've had some drag-outs too.

We have.

We've had some pretty heated arguments. And I'm not shy about saying that because I think people are afraid to do that.

Yeah.

People are afraid to do that nowadays. And then what happens is we tend to think, well, I don't agree with that, so I'm just going to stop talking to Chrissanne Long.

Yeah. Right. That's so true.

I'm just going to have to unfollow her. I'm going to just, you know, I'm not going to invite her to my next thing or I'm not going to talk. And it's ridiculous because we're not that far apart. But think, you know, emotions go one way or the other. And none of that has any bearing on any of the changes with this show. But I bring it up to say that people throw things away nowadays so easily and they build their own echo chambers one way or the other. And I don't— I'm sorry, I don't care what your beliefs are, political or otherwise. If you're living in an echo chamber, you're going to get lost because the world doesn't function that way.

Well, you're, you're never going to grow.

Sure.

I think growth comes from the diversity of thought that represents the ability to civilly discuss something that on which you're opposed. If you can agree to listen and hear and have an objective point of view, at least just to hear a different perspective. And not shut that conversation down and just go, whatever, you're stupid and I'm outta here. Then you start to grow, you start to learn. And you might not in that moment in the heated debate of the discussion know all of the right things. But if you were open to hearing what that person was saying, you'll probably go home or away from that conversation, rehashing the dialogue and going, you know, I hadn't thought about that. Or maybe Googling something. To figure out some of that information that you might not have thought about before. So it's—

Or at the very least, you know, it's not always about whether or not you're right or the other person is wrong.

Right. It almost never is about right and wrong.

Right. But the real lesson that you can learn is how to deal with different people. Yeah. If you try and take a step back and look at it and say, well, Why do they think this way? It's not that— not everything is a moral test of your belief system. This is a crazy concept that I hear all the time and just, it doesn't make sense to me. Most people don't think things very much through at all. They're not very deep, which is unfortunate. But those that are typically, They don't live and die by their beliefs on every single thing. So I hope, you know, if I can leave with anything other than maybe a corny joke here or there, is basically to just lighten up a little bit because, you know, we have this entire generation that we've taught, well, they say, well, you know, don't ever talk about politics or religion. Well, great. Now we have generations, generations plural, who can't talk about politics or religion without getting upset or angry or storming off and unfriending people on social media. This stuff is bananas.

Yeah.

Like, you know, it just— it doesn't make sense to me.

And that's the greatest gift that I think my family gave me. I think we talked about it on another show, but we had what we call in our family sobremesa, which in English means— translated, it's over the table. You know, you're done with dinner, the dishes haven't been cleared yet, nobody's getting up, there's no mother cleaning up and just, you know, taking care of the dishes. Dishes are still sitting in front of us and we're just having a very candid, open dialogue. And back then there was no Google. So the conversation could go on for hours with somebody thinking it was this and it was actually that. And we're arguing that point until somebody finally said, okay, I'm going and getting the encyclopedia and I'm gonna go find the information in the encyclopedia. But the experience that I had, you know, I, I was learned— I learned how to be put in my place, um, when I was wrong, you know, and obviously so. My stepdad, his, his, um, he was famous for every time he put me in my place and I was obviously wrong. I might have said something like, you know, it's, it's chartreuse, and then, you know, the color was green or something, I don't know. But if, if it got to the point where I couldn't argue anymore because I knew I was wrong, he would just look at me with this really funny look on his face, the growl but also laughing, like mocking me, and go, "Wrong again, cauliflower breath!" And I have no idea where cauliflower breath has anything to do with being wrong, but that was what he would always say. And maybe as a 12 or 13-year-old, I'd get mad, I'd walk— run away in a huff, I'd stomp my feet, I'd cry, I'd do whatever. But eventually I learned how to just take it, you know, and how to deal with being wrong. And having those conversations.

Did your family eat a lot of cauliflower?

Broccoli, more broccoli than cauliflower. Like I said, I have no idea what cauliflower breath has to do with it.

Maybe because it doesn't really have much of a—

I mean, I don't know. Have you ever smelled somebody who ate cauliflower? Do they have cauliflower breath?

I don't usually run up to people right after they're eating a vegetable. I don't hang around the crudité and just, you know, was that cauliflower? Come here. I think it's socially unacceptable and quite frowned upon no matter what circles you run with.

I just tend to have a mint handy so that nobody can smell cauliflower breath.

I don't know if that's high on the list of mint-worthy experiences, but I guess, say, who cares?

Right. Well, I think we learn what's modeled. That's the other point, is the modeling. If we grow up around people who Maybe they're not entrepreneurs, but they have entrepreneurial spirit or thought or problem solvers or, or learn how to do things to get themselves out of a bind or figuring out how to create a solution out of nothing. You know, our friend Brad Sundgren, you know, he had a problem that he solved with squirrels.

So I don't know that the problem was the squirrels. I think the problem was Brad's boredom. Which then recruited the squirrels.

Yes.

So I, I was early on in the mix. He actually sent me the plans for the squirrel table and I built one myself. And, uh, and then he went berserk making these tables. And now, I mean, they're on the shelves at, at, uh, Crowder Brothers.

Yeah.

You know, you don't have to be, you know, when you talk about entrepreneurship, it goes a little bit beyond that too. So Brad's an example of somebody who turned a hobby into a little side business. Side gig, yeah. But if you work in a corporate setting, there's a place for entrepreneurial thought. In a corporate environment, they might call it outside-the-box thinking. Well, that can be a rare commodity because you tend to get used to the same answers and, well, we've always done it this way, what have you. But entrepreneurial thinking, it can go in various directions, and it's often creative. It's better for problem solving, hence, you know, it's where the creativity plays in. But ultimately, it doesn't mean that you have a hot dog cart on the side of, you know, on the corner of Main Street, that's what makes you an entrepreneur. Quite the contrary. It really is about the way that you think and approach things. And, uh, you know, I think people would be amazed if they, if they understood the importance of that way of thinking. If we take this a step back and say it's not just about entrepreneurs and hanging a shingle someplace and opening up a, you know, a bakery or something or selling squirrel tables, uh, but rather thinking about in a more, uh, in a more creative way and, uh, and looking to— looking for opportunities.

Right. Right.

And that works no matter where you're at.

Yeah. And it's a reality for people who, if you're listening and you think, I have a lot of ideas, I've just never acted on them. I think that's the differentiator. And, you know, we don't tell stories like Thomas Edison's light bulbs and about how many different ways he learned not to make a light bulb. We don't tell those stories because they don't, they don't, they're not based on reality. They're, they're told because he failed and he failed and he failed and he failed. And then he kept failing and failing until he finally figured it out. But he knew what he was trying to do and he was set on figuring out how to do it. And that's the spirit of entrepreneurship. What ends up happening is you, you get into it and you taste it once and then you see, okay, wait a minute, if I had done this, If I had, you know, you iterate one time and then that iteration proves to not work, but you, you could see the merit. You learned something along the way that there was, there was actually merit in the idea, but you needed to cut this corner or you needed to add this ingredient or you needed this extra step that you forget, failed to realize. And then you, next time you do it, it's better and then it's better and then it's better. So it's, it's just this really complex thing. And I think Victor Huang, who has— he's left the Kauffman Foundation and has moved into a new organization that he's founded called Right to Start. And in the language of Right to Start, it's righttostart.org. He says out of 100 people, 97 people will not start a business and 3 will. And so the job of the 97 is to cheer on the 3, support the 3, care about the 3. But I want to turn that on its end and say the right, the important, the role of the 3 is to succeed, right? We can't, we can't have the 3 fail.

You're, you're, you're walking contradiction sometimes.

I am. I'm always contradicting myself because that's what entrepreneurship is.

Now you sound like me, more stick than carrot.

Well, That's okay because I'm learning. I'm open to your point and your approach.

It's a proud moment.

Oh, you got a tear in your eye.

It's allergies.

But the job of entrepreneurship isn't for somebody to do you a favor. It's for you to do the work that's going to be required. My hope is that we can start to have those numbers start to grow where it's more than 3 and then it's 5 and then it's 10. And then, you know, there's never going to be Um, there's no such thing as too much innovation. There's no such thing as, but you've got to follow through with your ideas. So that's the balance. That's the part where you're coming in with your stick and I'm coming in with a carrot because I want to get it started and I want people to get encouraged and move forward and try something new. And you're like, well, you know, I don't know. What are you like?

I think business is Darwinian. I think that There's— it's a constant evolution, and somebody builds a better mousetrap until somebody builds something that we don't need mousetraps. I mean, at one point in this world, there were people at the top of their game making buggy whips, and the automobile destroyed that industry. Okay, it didn't matter how good you were, it didn't matter how amazing your you know, how well-crafted your buggy whips were. It didn't matter. They became obsolete. This can happen in any business. Okay. For 100 years, people would've just scoffed at the idea that Sears Roebuck would be gone. Okay. And now they are. And what I've seen is this process is accelerating at a more rapid pace than ever before. Because things move so quickly now. So ultimately nobody is safe, no business is safe, and you have to constantly be evolving. And that's a mindset issue. Doesn't matter if you're an entrepreneur or not, that's a mindset issue. And I don't think it's one we talk about enough.

Yeah.

You know, and I think it's, you know, some of the adversarial things and the, the, just the adversity you face in entrepreneurship is part of that. That entrepreneurial Darwinism, because if you don't have the stamina to hack it among a few naysayers or doubters, how are you going to hack it when you encounter real problems? Okay. If all you have are cheerleaders and no coaches, you never get better. Cheerleaders are important, right? They elevate the energy and they give you a little bit of reassurance when you're not sure if you should just keep going because you're tired. But without a coach, you don't improve.

Right.

And if you don't improve— and coaches don't just tell you the good things, they tell you the bad things, probably more disproportionately so. But they do that with the idea that you can get better. And if you don't have that, then I think you are just increasing the odds that you'll find yourself amongst the buggy whip makers and the Sears Roebucks before, you know, sooner than later.

Right. Well, or you just won't start and there won't be a fill in the blank to create.

Let's be honest, not everybody should.

Hey, I'm not sitting here advocating that it turns into the other way around where there's 97 entrepreneurs and 3 people who aren't. I'm just suggesting that, you know, sometimes it's the mindset, it's the head games, it's the things that we tell ourselves that talk us out. Of doing the thing that we actually were made to do. I think most of my life was doubt, self-doubt. And I stand here today and I can say I didn't do it because I had anything better than I'd had the day before when I was doubting myself. I just did it anyway. I overcame the fear, I overcame the doubt, I mastered the voice that was in my head, or at least I tried to master the voice that was in my head for a little bit to be able to say, shut up. Get out of here. I'm going to do this. And I know I don't need to hear what you have to say over here. And that's the, that's the part that I think is so critical to the innovation is we have an idea, but we don't act on it because the voice tells us not to, because whatever that script is in everybody's head, it's different. For me, it was, you're not good enough or you're, you know, whatever that could be. I think that that is the part that has to be overcome. So that we can start to see more innovation, more creativity, and more people willing to take those risks. And I think safety is a false, you know, is a false belief. Like, really, there is no safety.

There isn't. And if there is, you really can't have real success either. Because, you know, without sounding like some of those, you know, silly motivational posters you see on—

they're not silly. They motivate. They inspire, they encourage, they lift us up.

Elevators lift people up.

Oh, and we're elevating in this podcast. That's great.

Oh my, I'm surrounded by walls and chipperness.

It's so much fun to chipper, to be chipper.

It is. But I think, you know, it's very easy sometimes, and I think And if I leave you with anything in this episode, as you forge out on your own, now that I've gotten you to the wonderful world of podcasting, it's that you should never discount the traits that you have honed based upon the fact that you did struggle. It's easy sometimes to think, man, I really went through hell. To get where I'm at. And I had so much self-doubt and there were moments where I probably would've just bailed, but I just didn't. And I wish somebody had told me I would've succeeded. If you really think back, you probably had at least one person, maybe it was your mom, but at least one person telling you, you know, you can do it, whatever.

You can do it.

You can do it. But ultimately it doesn't matter how many of those people that you have, If you don't believe it, it will not happen.

Absolutely.

And whether it's, you know, I have some thoughts on things like, you know, your self-esteem and where self-worth comes from. And it doesn't come from the people around you who tell you how wonderful and what a unique and beautiful snowflake you are. It's in the way that you by yourself overcome adversity. That's where real confidence comes from. That's where strength comes from. That's where endurance is forged. And I think that it's important to be a support system for people, but that has to be a chief message too. You want to do this? I think you should. I think you should take a chance, bet on yourself, but also understand it's going to be hard and you very well might fail.

It's going to be a grueling bout. Have I talked about my favorite poem my dad made me memorize?

Mm-mm.

So it's called The Quitter by Robert Service. And he made me memorize it. I don't think he made me, but I think it was one of those things where it was that poem that was a trigger for him. He was in the Navy during Vietnam and just kind of stories that he has told, not very many, but as I've gleaned from him, his experience, and it's, let's see if I actually memorized it. I gotta figure out the first line. Crap. There's the line in the poem that says, "And though you come out of each grueling bout all broken and beaten and scarred, just have one more try. It's dead easy to die. It's the keeping on living that's hard." And it's this— there's several verses, but that's the one that just comes to me right now. And it's that moment of you're gonna fail. You're gonna mess up. You're gonna make a mistake. And if you're walking this line of, I've gotta be perfect, I've gotta do it all the way that I was supposed to do it, you're, you're going to fail. And then you're going to hate yourself because you thought you would— you'll say, I should have never done that. But if you go into it going, you're going to get broken, you're going to get beaten, you're going to get scarred, but those scars and those beatings are going to teach you the lessons that are going to make you resilient and make you a better person and give you the strength that you need to succeed. Those are the stories that Elevate Polk podcast is going to be about, is the resilience of entrepreneurship in our community.

Because without those experiences, there can be no—

it's fluff. I mean, it's fluff. I'm not— I'm not a fluff. I mean, I know that I'm a cheerleader. I know that I'm an encourager. I know that I'm all carrot and no stick. But the truth is, the truth is It's, it's gotta come from somewhere sometimes where you have to see it modeled and you have to start to have that outside. Sometimes it's from the outside first and then it, then it takes hold on the inside. You know, I don't think anybody knew how to ride a bike without training wheels until the training wheels were there. And those were the— that's an external thing. That's extra support on the outside making you balance and keeping you going right in, in the right direction with your bike. And I hate training wheels.

Then you take this—

Well, but you had them when you were like 3 and a half.

I think it delays the experience of learning how to ride a bike, although it does create more injuries.

Few more broken bones and skinned knees and traumatic experiences.

Now I'm in the healthcare business in a different way.

Oh yeah, you got stock in that now.

For the record, that is not the opinion of my employer. No, we don't encourage the, the breaking of unnecessary breaking of bones.

So I wanna say thank you, Rob, for bringing me into the podcast world, for telling me that what I had to say was valuable and that we could have these conversations. And that's the epitome of what I am saying about entrepreneurship is—

Exactly.

You encouraged me to the point where I was willing to take a step. Into the direction of doing something new and scary and different and totally outside of my comfort zone. And I did it. And you gave me the comfort of knowing it was important enough that we should do it. And now you're handing off the gavel and saying, okay, go, go fly, little bird, fly.

For the record, I have never said go fly, little bird in my entire life. I don't intend to start.

You just did.

But I also told you that you need to learn how to talk into a microphone, 'cause you move your around like Stevie Wonder.

Am I doing it again?

No, you were great.

I'm doing good?

You were doing amazing.

Oh.

But had I not told you all those times, by the way, stop pecking on your keyboard, 'cause it's driving me insane, all these things that make my life editing very difficult, you wouldn't have gotten better. And now you're a pro.

Now I'm ready for Annie to take on the editing job, and it's not gonna be such a grueling bout.

Right, right. Because I'll tell you right now that if all I ever did was say, Chrissanne, you're wonderful, Annie would be editing like one episode and I'm done. I'm out.

I'm out.

Well, it was a pleasure. It was, uh, I can't wait for our first Rob sighting. Yeah. Yeah. I look forward to it. I only work 10 minutes away, so, uh, it'll, it'll definitely happen. But I think I can't commit to the consistency. And I think that's what people missed out on. And that's what I missed out on. I mean, I think it becomes a habit. It becomes a thing. And I think it should be. And I don't want to be the reason that it's not. So, you know, I'll keep my affiliation, but I'll let out the reins and I look forward to what comes.

Fly, fly, little bird.

But make no mistake, first episode without me, I'm going to tell you what I think.

You're going to give us all of the critical—

I'm going to call you up and like, that was just garbage. I'm just kidding.

No, I can't do it. I can't handle it. Well, before we wrap up, I want to give a shout out to one of our most avid listeners, Ty Stinnett, who is the owner of Iconic E-Cigs and all of those awesome things. He's got a couple of other businesses. He's another serial entrepreneur. We'll get him on the show. I told him as such, but he, commented on a recent conversation that was going on and he's like, this is a conversation for the Elevate Podcast. I'm like, you're right. You're totally right. So to all of you who are listening, thank you. We looked at our analytics and we had 47 downloads this week and we haven't recorded since August.

That's insane, isn't it? Yeah. Considering we have like, you know, after a certain time you start to fall off the the list. So that's organic. That's the power of locals.

They're just the— so here you are, everyone. Here's our next episode and look forward to season number 2 coming in 2021. And I'll make some announcements about our co-hosts. We may have co-hosts, so we may just have a stable of co-hosts coming along and being a part of the conversation. We'll see what happens. All right. Thanks everyone for listening. And remember, we will have a new episode each week. So be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, and remember to leave us a review. We promise to read every one. You can always find all of our episodes at elevatepolk.com. And if there's something you want to hear about or an entrepreneur you want to hear featured on an upcoming episode, reach out to us on Facebook at Elevate Polk.