How to smack around business owners (full sales call breakdown)

All right, so we got another call review session today. Call reviews are going to be the best way to actually get better at sales because you're dealing with real-life sales calls, real-life people, not just theory. This is the same way that I was able to get to a point where I was making over $60,000 per month, and I do this with every single person that I work with, and I've gotten over 13 people to over $50,000 per month by actually reviewing sales calls. Okay, so today we are here with— you sell—

I sell Sales coaching implementation to insurance agency owners.

Yeah. So more B2B, bit more sophisticated, generally speaking. So let's go ahead and let's pull up this call. Is there anything that you want to say about this call before we, before we dive into it?

This was a pretty standard prospect. You know, I've been trying to work on just getting into deeper pain points, still kind of scratching the surface with that. So that's kind of what I wanted to focus on.

Okay.

And then they gave me a few objections at the end too.

Okay, cool. Yeah, especially when you're talking about, because it is an improvement offer, like you're helping somebody do better at something they're already doing. You need to be able to poke holes and create doubt. Like that's just the, that's the biggest thing that we need to do. So let me actually just pull this up here. Let's go ahead. Let's dive into this call. All right. I'll run it at 1.5x.

All right. Nice to meet you. Where are you based out of? Is that—

it is just— yep, just west. Oh yeah, very much.

Orlando, Florida.

Oh, another Florida call. Nice, nice, nice, nice.

Yeah, so, um, this is your first time talking with us here? You haven't spoken with us before?

Correct.

Awesome. Well, um, I mean, I always like to ask, like, what brought you to the call?

Well, I got referred actually through a fellow agent that uses you, um, spoke highly of you guys, and I'm kind of looking around at some different programs and thought I would see what you guys have to offer.

Okay. What did she say about us?

Well, she said you guys have been real valuable in her kind of agency, and it's kind of an ongoing program, if I understand, where she can go back and use some of the tools and things that the team went through after they went through it to kind of reinforce, you know, their activities and what they should be doing, especially when they kind of have a slump or whatever. They're like, oh, let's go back to TrainWell, see what— okay, yep. But then kind of get them back on track. So yeah, she just said it's been kind of a valuable piece. Sounds like she's used it for some time.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. She's a big success story of ours. I'm glad she pointed you in the right direction. Okay. So the way we run these calls, just so they're actually useful, is We'll kind of talk about your agency, you know, kind of see, just get the full picture of where you're at right now, see where you're trying to go. You know, if there's anything blocking you guys, we'll go over that. If I feel like we can generally help you, Trainable would actually, you know, work for your agency. I'm gonna go over exactly what it is. You know, I'll give you a demo of everything, walk you through it. We can even get you started. And on the other side of that chain, if for whatever reason I feel like we're just not gonna be a good fit or we're just not positioned to help you, I'm just gonna be upfront and direct with you as well. And same goes for you. At any point you're like, hey, for me, just, it's totally fine to just let me know.

Yeah, no, that sounds good.

All right. So can you kind of walk me through the agency as it sits today? Like how many in sales versus how many in service?

Sure. So, well, I'm a 26-year agent. Um, I've got 6— well, I got 4, um, essentially 4 licensed team members. Um, they're not really— it's kind of been more of a hybrid sales service thing going on more than anything. Um, not straight. I haven't had any straight salespeople actually the last— well, the last hybrid great. Um, you guys work— you know that name at all?

Doesn't ring a bell, but I don't know.

Okay, that's all right. Um, so anyway, so Yeah, kind of more about, you know, they're doing both. They don't have a straight salesperson. I'm looking at, you know, trying to figure that out. I've never had success at just hiring a straight salesperson. Honestly, it seems like they get bogged down and trying to learn and they know what they're doing, or I just haven't been successful with that. I've got 2 team members that are pretty seasoned. They've been with me for some time. They're fully licensed. I think they have a great— they have a great base knowledge of the products and stuff. I was just really trying to get them maybe to move kind of to the next level as well, just pivoting and getting more financial service kind of appointments and sales out of that. So I'm looking at bringing on another 1 or 2 people that would be more sales-focused and thinking about a good program to kind of put up there. And that was something too that your guys' program is great for kind of Existing tenured people, but then also brand new people as well.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. We work with everybody. Typically, anybody who's tenured will see an increase in production a lot quicker than somebody who's completely brand new to insurance sales. So it helps when they're tenured. We'll get into all of that. So it sounds like you have 4 licensed team members that are selling and they kind of do some service work too. Correct.

Most of it is service work, I'd say, more than selling. And then we have a good month and then we have a bad month. We just have minimal consistency in our production, which is also kind of a thing we're working on.

What do you feel is causing the inconsistencies? How big of a swing is it?

Well, I think— good question. So one thinking about it is probably just having a steady line of referrals going. I think when we have a great month, they bog down right after the thing and then all of a sudden something stops, right? Maybe a different Maybe the follow-up on defectors, stuff that are leads that they have, stuff because they have busy written in the business. Um, so kind of keeping that consistency going on the activity side, not just the results side.

So, okay. Big, big thing right there. Is he actually sure what's causing this problem? No, no. Huge, huge area for opportunity, right? So it's like, if we hear something like that, it's like, well, hey man, you don't seem too sure on like what's actually causing it. Do you think that might be part of the issue here? That it's like, we don't have full transparency on that.

Just call it out.

Yeah, dude. It's like, he's like, oh, I think it might be this or it might be this. It's like, did you think? Right now you don't say it like that, but it's like, especially when we're talking about like growing a business, if we don't understand what the constraints are, like that is a huge problem. And then what that also does as well, because again, we're in the business of creating doubt in his mind, right? Like if he doesn't know, like if you ask him, Something like that, and he's just like, "Why? I don't know." That's perfect, right? Like now he's in your world, and we can lead. We can we can push. So when I hear something like that, I'm like, "Dude, smack the fuck out you."

Have busy months and they forget to ask for referrals.

Sure. I mean, that's one example. I guess not referrals.

Great. It's hard to. You can't probably build a business on that because it's just so inconsistent. Um. So in terms of like activity, you feel like some months they're just putting in more effort, making more dials. Getting more quotes out versus other months?

Um, I don't know. Maybe that's part of what I need help with looking at. Um, is what that activity is and is it the right activity? That's kind of what I'm looking for. Someone to take a fresh look at this and help us kind of go, okay, we're— move us out of the wreck, if you will.

Sure. Sure. Yeah.

What is that? Could be, could be an issue that we, we don't know that. Do you have the actual like activity data in front of you of like what they're actually doing, like how they're doing their activity? Well, that could be an issue if we're not able to keep track of that. I mean, just onto the next thing.

Okay.

So again, I'm just like poking holes. Him saying, I don't know, we just need to expand on it.

Okay. What does a normal month look like? Just your average month in terms of total app written?

That's a good question. Um, well, I know where we're at so far this year.

And wherever your gut's telling you is usually, you know, a good estimate.

Yeah. So probably around 40, 45 to 50.

50 apps a month?

Mm-hmm.

And how many of those are live now?

Not live. We're at 15 for the year so far.

For live being issued?

No, for the year. So would that be a couple?

2, 3? 2. Okay. So you got 15 live apps issued for the year. And what about health?

I don't think we have any.

Okay. When you hear something like that, because how on average, because these people are coming in, they're selling auto and it's like we're supposed to get the life apps on average. What is even like a, just a, like not even like completely poor, but just even a bad percentage that they're able to get over?

Like he should be at like 10 to 15 to 20 life apps a month, probably. A month?

Yeah. That's for the year.

Yeah, that's, he's in pretty bad shape.

So it's like, but based off your tone and how you reacted to the information, do we convey that?

No, no, I kind of just went with it.

So it's like, yeah, we just kind of accept it as like face value. So it's like, at first you, I think you did something good. You go, okay, so is that a month? Right? Because you're assuming, because you're like, dude, how is this a year? And he goes, oh no, that's a year. Wait a minute. Like, that's a year?

Yeah.

Yeah, man. I can definitely see why you could be needing help. Like you just, you pause, you're confused, and then you're like, yeah, I can definitely see why he might be needing help with that. Um, and then you kind of move on and it's like you're, you're drawing attention to it because that is a shocking number. But if we are not shocked by the shocking number, right, it doesn't give it the weight that it actually deserves.

Makes them feel like it's okay.

Yeah. And again, we don't like go way over the top with it, but genuinely you were shocked by that number. Just show him, right? Like actually like, oh, okay. Yeah. That's, uh, that's definitely on the lower side, man. And then just like go on with what you're doing.

Yeah. Okay. You're like, you're able to do it. Just don't do much of it.

Correct.

Okay. All right. And then in terms of like your premiums, say your average 6-month auto premium is just a whole month.

Auto is probably around, you know, $450.

450. And what is your average annual partner premium?

Well, depends on what we're doing. Maybe around $1,200 or so.

Okay.

That's all

right. Usually whatever your best selling is. Been doing this 26 years. All right. So when we look at productivity of an agency, we have certain benchmarks that we want to get you to that we have just— I'm doing this for so long and I'll explain kind of our background and everything, but we have a benchmark we want to get you to. And it would be if you divide the apps that you write per month on average by your team, we want to be averaging 43 apps per team member. So right now, you know, we are on the left side of the bell curve for that. So, but ideally, if we got you up to the benchmark, you'd really be sitting at about 150, 175 apps per month. So do you feel like, are we being too aggressive with that projection?

So, I mean, I look at, you know, no, I mean, that's the consistency I'm looking for. And I think our best month this year was July. We did like 97. And, you know, I'm thinking, well, why can't we be doing 100 every month? Like, we should be able to do 100 easily every month, right? So you tell me 150. Okay, great. Like, you know, like, yeah. So I would see obviously hiring someone and looking at our processes is what we're looking for is lift. I think we're a great opportunity to put that lift in because I think we've got a lot of things going. We just don't have— we're just missing pieces. I think part of the missing pieces is me, on me, accountability-wise. I've been in and out myself, which probably has something to do with it. Like, month of July, I was here pretty much all month, and then I was gone all month. So I wonder why things— I don't know. That probably has something to do with it.

So just like, busy, like, on vacation or something?

Yeah, just at a place out of town, out of state. So I try to do some things to keep in touch with it, but it's hard, right? Doing the remote thing. So, but I don't look back. It couldn't be done. But I think it's neat too, I guess, just knowing what to hold, where to hold that accountability and keeping it kind of keeping my foot on the pedal, if you will.

Well, kudos to you for actually— I have a lot of these calls and A lot of agents, I think they know it's on them, but they dance around it. You actually came out and admitted it. So that's the first step.

First step of being alcoholic, admit I got a problem.

Rather than the first step for me. But yeah, I mean, that just shows you actually care and you're serious about turning this around. So I'm here to help just to show you what that gap could be worth. Let's say we can get you to 150 apps per month, which would be $100 million more than you're writing right now.

We can expand that a bit.

Okay.

I was like, hey man, dude, kudos for you for admitting that. What are you seeing that makes you feel as though like the accountability just isn't where it needs to be?

Get specific.

Yeah, how do you feel like that's actually translating to the rep's production? Okay. Yeah, right. Just ask a couple more questions and then it's like just widen that gap. So we're getting him to admit it, but just get him to expand on it.

Okay. On average. So if we average out your P&C numbers for the year, let me take a commission percentage of that. Let's just take 8%. I know State Farm is a little bit more, but let's just be conservative. You're averaging about $84 in commission per P&C policy right now. Which means times that by extra 100 apps per month, that's $8,500 per month brought in just for those extra apps. And for the year, it's $101,000. And then obviously your scorecard, you know, we build all that. Yep. Yep. So, okay. So before we get into this, how much do you know about that?

You know, she just mentioned a little bit, actually worked with them maybe initially.

And it's like, generally speaking, when you do get into the numbers, um, do you talk about the life and all the other policies and how that could add to it?

Not really. Just, we kind of just focused on like the P&C stuff.

Yeah. Because with that, let's just say he gets to the bare minimum of what he should be doing, right? Because like, don't they make more on like a life and all the other stuff?

Yeah, a lot more.

Okay. So it's like, hey man, if we increase no production, but we just get them to do this on this side, like that would increase it by this, right? Because it's like $15,400 a year, like in my head, Again, all of his numbers are kind of dog shit. Let's be real about it. But in my head, like that's the the easiest lift I can see.

Mm hmm. Yeah, and they're they're just not asking about it because he's not there to push him. He's got no system.

Yeah. Yeah.

Believe when he started this program, she mentioned, but that's all or not about it.

He's down. You know, he's a little bit south of you down in Iowa City.

Yep.

Yep.

Agency.

Yeah. So he started eight years ago as a team member, and they had a team. team of 7 back then. He became sales manager 3 years ago with that same team of 7. They're doing about 180 apps a month. Nothing crazy. Fast forward today, 3 years later, they're a team of 18. They do about 1,100 to 1,200 apps a month with 120 to 150 of those being financial services. So everybody always asks, you know, how do we do that? How do we copy this? How do I clone that in my business? What's the one thing I need to do? Always, it's not one thing. We preach what we call the 4 pillars. So we'll go over this in your business right now just very quickly.

But so is this like transitioning pitch here?

This is transitioning to— I'm going to talk about the 4 pillars. So sales process, accountability, marketing, hiring and training.

Okay. Okay. Because then, then do we go a little bit back into discovery and then go into the presentation?

Exactly. So process, what we say on the phones, how we overcome objections, how we close, how we multi-line accountability, how we hold our sales team accountable to that process. Leads, the way we buy and manage leads, how we spend money on marketing, what kind of return we get. And lastly is hiring and training, which has everything to do from the way you write your job ad, the conduct of the interview, to once they're in the seat, ramping them up into production as fast as possible. So as far as sales process goes, so you had mentioned you have 4 producers, 2 tenured, 2 changing, 1 needs to

do

that. Are we doing the right processes around that? For sure. Then the other, the other 2, you know, are just, just over a year with me. One's a younger kid. He's got his P&C. The other one has got his P&C and life health. So I should also add, I do have another agent with me. So another older, I guess you call agency here that we also work with. So there's that aspect as well.

Okay. Are they, are they in the room with you right now or you're just saying?

Oh no, just me. No, no, no.

So

it's an agent with a small, smaller book. He's been around a long time. Like the changes, who knows what's gonna happen. But yeah, so, so we kind of help service that book of business also. But it's really run as one, like it's the same thing. We're all doing the same thing, right? Yeah. Exactly. That's kind of what I— exactly.

Yeah. Okay. All right. In terms of what your sales team is saying right now, does everybody have roughly the same script or workshop they follow? Does everybody have their own style of doing things? Talk to me about that.

I guess it depends on what it is, but it's probably more they have their own than a specific script. I haven't had like, all right, here's what you say, don't deviate. This is what you got to say when you're doing it. To me, I think that's not as natural. I'm trying to— more of a natural conversation rather than just being robots.

Right? Right. I mean, the idea is not to have them sound like robots at all. Nobody would ever listen to that. But, you know, to start, if we are going to help correct this and help learn how to pivot more and increase production, it is helpful to have them all on the same sales process. That way we know what's working. And we can treat things in real time. If we know they're all saying the same thing, roughly, it's not like everybody has to say it word for word, but just all—

Isn't part of his gap as well too that he can't really hire people?

No, not really. I think he wants to hire more.

He was saying he couldn't bring on like just actual salespeople. He said that like something at the beginning. So in my head, like just a lack of systems could be contributing to that.

It is. It definitely is.

Yeah.

Just because he doesn't have a system in place for his salespeople. Everybody's kind of just doing whatever and he's not monitoring it.

Yeah. So if we get something like this, if it's like, yeah, they're kind of doing their own thing, but I feel like that's best. Like, you know, just have it like more natural. It's like, hey, and I can appreciate like, that's, you want them to be natural, but how is them just doing their own thing and not having any accountability or structure actually translating to results in the business right now?

Yeah.

So instead of me telling him, Let me ask the very pointed question that obviously pokes holes in the logic. And it's like, yeah. And that's what we see. It's like, yes, we need to be natural, but we need to have a structure on how to be natural, have that conversation. Because if we don't, what's going to happen is we're leaving, at least right now, I would say on the low end, we're leaving around $8,500 in your pocket each month just because we don't have that structure in place. Does that seem right? So I have to ask, like, do you actually want to change that or are you okay just things being natural and everyone just doing their own thing? Oh no, I definitely want to change it. Okay, cool.

In the general flow, then if we need to pivot and we need to correct something in real time, we'll know exactly where to look because we know it's going to affect everybody versus having to listen to every single person, hear what they're doing. Then it just makes it easier and becomes more of a team. In terms of pivoting though, what percentage of the time would you think that they're bringing up like, if we were to just record 10 random calls?

I'm guessing it's low because it's not happening. Or if they're saying we're not getting the results from what they're saying. Right. So I mean, I guess it depends on which one too. So the other, you know, my younger newest guy, he's kind of first on phones and he's taking a lot of that, but it's not right there. Also, I've discovered he's trying to take over everything and not pivoting and getting it deeper. So, you know, like I looked at the call log, he had answered like 1,000 calls last month of the calls coming in, and then he's trying to take it on versus like, let's pivot and delegate to the seasoned team or to have a conversation. So yeah, I guess that's another— I don't know. To answer your question directly, I don't know. I'd like to say 100%. I know that's not true. And I'd like to say maybe it's 30% of the time, but then 30% of the time maybe it's not even a well-delivered You know, catch $50 or $100.

Yeah. Just because there's a difference between not bringing it up and then bringing it up and getting pushback and not being able to overcome the pushback. Right. Those are 2 different fixes. Right. Um, our systems will account for both though. So whatever's happening now, we'll be able to fix

it. Okay. So it's again, huge, huge area of just doubt. I don't know. And then immediately we're filling his doubt with our solution.

Yep.

Okay. So it's like, hey man, do you feel like part of the problem is that we don't know because we don't have a structure? We don't have the insight and we're just kind of leaving it up to fate.

Yeah.

Right. Like how long has this been going on where it's like, we don't have the systems, we don't have the transparency, and it's like we can't be certain whether people are actually doing the job the way they should be.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I felt awkward, so I filled it with my solution, but I need to just, I need to stay in that.

Well, it's like, first of all, this guy is not a good business owner. He needs to feel that shit, bro.

Yeah.

You know, if we're expecting every single business owner that we help to just be like super hunky-dory, it is not going to be that way. This guy needs to feel the pain of his incompetence, right? Like he runs a fucking sales business, bro. And he doesn't understand, like he doesn't even know what people are saying on the phones. Like that's the bare minimum. You get what I mean? Yeah. So on some level, he needs to understand this hard truth or Or he's not going to move forward.

Right. You got to make a play.

And it's like how we, yeah. And how we do it in discovery is we just ask the pointed questions to widen the gap in his mind. So he's like, yes. Oh shit. Like, yeah, I definitely need to do something. Okay.

Yep. Yep.

So it's like you have him right there. You are the expert. He's not doing the bare minimum of what he should do. Like that needs to be like transferred over. We need to let him know that. We need to ask questions to widen that. Like, how long has this been going on? He's been in business 16 years. How long has he not had a structure for the people he brings on? Do you feel like that this might be part of the problem on why we're not, why we have never been able to make a salesperson specifically work? Because there's no structure, there's no, there, there's no accountability, there's no input. Yeah. How do we ever expect to actually grow this thing if we don't have the systems in place?

Right. So that kind of gives me an idea of your sales process. It is important to have everybody on the same, roughly the same, you know, word tracker script. That way we know they have the tools in order to pivot. When I say tools, I'm talking about those deep track—

But again, like you're telling him that versus me asking the question to get him to be like, oh yeah, shit, things I've been doing hasn't been working. Right. Because like in the objections, is he bringing up like, oh, well, you know, I don't want it to be like some bullshit.

Yeah.

Or what was he?

Yeah, dude, it was like three different objections. Talk to other references. I have a knee surgery coming up. Nine K is a lot. He gave me like everything.

What does you having a knee surgery have to do with your team performing better?

That's what I was trying to say.

It's like why do you need to physically be lurking over your team for them to do their job?

I agree.

Right.

Any questions that you ask in the beginning just uncover everything about prospect. You know, get a full needs analysis their entire life. Talking about debt, mortgage, you know, look at their liability, how much they need. You're building depth benefit around that when you present multiple lines. Obviously, studies show the more lines you present, higher closing percentage. If you're presenting auto, it's one line, pretty tough. We know, you know, doesn't stick around as much either. So we do need to learn how to multiline better, and we'll get into that as far as the program goes, how we can do that. But, um, I do want to talk about accountability because I know you mentioned that at the beginning. So I know you said you're kind of in and out over the summer. I understand that. What is in place? What type of accountability do you have? Like, even when you're not there, just under dailies, do they have— is it like a win-the-day setup where it's like they can do X amount of calls, X amount of household quotes after written, or anything like that?

Negative. Probably the biggest thing I've been trying to do lately is just activities on a weekly basis. At the end of the week, send me your activity. What'd you do? So form discussions had completed, life pivots, appointments set, things kind of around that, collecting analysis.

Okay. Listen to his language. Okay. Things I'm trying to do, bro. Are you doing it or not doing it?

Yeah. I don't

think he's doing it right off the bat.

Yeah.

Yeah. So if I hear something like that, it's like, hey man, I appreciate you're trying to do things, but in life we're either doing it or we're not doing it. Right. So it's like, are we actually doing that? Oh no, I haven't gotten it in place. It's like, okay, well, can you see how like, that's a big issue? How do you see that being a big issue?

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Right. It's like, dude, I'm telling you right now. And again, this is just like salespeople in general, but especially like the life and like the insurance agents, like, dude, they're so full of shit, bro.

They're the worst. They're like the most unambitious, like worst business owners I've ever seen, dude.

It's crazy. Try to talk to real estate agents, it'll take it up a notch, right? So they're not the worst, they're number 2. But it's like when you hear things like that, you have to like, again, push back because you gotta understand the concept, man. If we allow him to lie to us and we've kind of allowed him to be like, I don't know, like kind of just give wishy-washy bullshit, like just not real answers and there is no pushback. And then now he's lying to us.

Yep.

If we don't push back, he's just gonna get more and more confident in that type of behavior. So then when we get to the end of the conversation, he is going to sit there and he's going to continue to tell you bullshit and lie to you.

Yep. You gotta correct it.

Yeah, you just, you have to correct it. And if you ever, and, and again, since you are selling sales training, you have something that is an absolute cheat code is you can always put it on them on how they want the prospect to be for them.

What do you mean?

It's like, well, hey man, if you're talking to somebody and you're trying to get an understanding of like their life insurance and everything along those lines, if they're not open with you or they lie or they don't really tell you the full truth, can you actually help that person? It's the same thing here, man. Right? Like, I can't help you unless you're open with me. So help me understand. And then you just go back into it.

Okay.

Always super easy cheat code. Or you can always flip it back on them. It's like, hey, do you have a hard time or did your reps have a hard time getting people being open with you? You know how I noticed that? How I guessed that? It's because how you're being with me right now. You're not being open. You're being closed off. And again, I'm not going to be able to help if that's how this conversation continues. Easy, easy cheat code always.

Oh, they're going to respect you.

That takes authority. Yeah, we got to have the authority. Authority is going to be number one. Because this, like, what needs to happen is this guy needs to look at you and go, fuck, this guy's good at his job. I want my reps to be like him. You running the sales call is part of the actual presentation.

Okay. Yeah. That's kind of been, and that kind of sporadic because then I don't get it and I'm like, oh wait, I didn't get it. You know, hey, when I get it, turn it in. So I just actually read kind of this week, today, yesterday. Hey guys, I need this. I need you to do this on a regular basis every week. Send it to me so we can look at it. Talk about it. See why we're doing what's happening. So that's been kind of the extent of it recently. And then I guess at the end of each month, they do send me their numbers. Kind of what's the premium road to have? They have a bonus monthly app bonus they can earn. Commission structure is basically five percent or ten percent, but you gotta sell to life to get ten percent. Otherwise, you're gonna get five on new production. So each month, we're kind of looking at that, but I haven't really been holding them to it. It's kind of well, here's what the numbers are. You know, okay, that's what you get, right? So there hasn't been strict accountable.

Are you thinking that's because the benchmark is so low?

Yeah, probably. That's part of the problem.

Sure. How long has it been like this? Is this just Recent or has it been like this for a while?

No, it's probably been like this for a while. I would say my tenure, you know, I've been doing this for 26 years. The first 15 years, I was much more active and, you know, I was President's Club, I was Chairman's Circle, I was doing all the things, right? I then got kind of burned out, I'd say. I was like, you know, this is exhausting. I'm tired of it. I always had probably 1 or 2 good salespeople that did a lot too, who's I think on you guys' program, but she's got an agency down south. We got her an agency out of my agency. And ever since then, I just kind of like, oh yeah, I've tried to hire salespeople, just kind of struggled with it. And it's kind of like, you know what, I'm gonna now just kind of Not enjoy the fruits of labor, but kind of enjoy it, right? Like, okay, I'm not so worried about getting the pinpoints and plaques. I got a good business. I take good care of my customers. And that was kind of been what we've been doing probably last five years, say. Obviously, with the changes state farms that coming at us, I can't quite do that. I'm going to see a big reduction in income. And so I need to reengage, and I need to get back. And it's one of those things I believe I can do it. I know I can do it, but I want to do it differently than I did before because I did before I did

it.

It was all on me doing all the sales appointments, evening appointments. You know, like I'm not doing that. I need to build a business and be more business minded and hold team accountable, build a team so that the team does it. And that's kind of where I'm at. Here for you, right? Is all right. I need some help doing

that. Again, you're doing the right thing just by talking to us because we're the people that help. It's exactly why agents come to us. When you say burnt out, though, I wanted to ask about that.

Okay. So it's like again, anytime they do, first of all, first of all, we're never in the business of talking ourselves up too much because naturally it causes a bit of distrust.

Sure.

If I'm just like, dude, I'm the fucking best, you're gonna be like, are you? Versus like, hey, dude, I'm pretty bored and I just focus on this shit. It's like. It, it's just gonna be different. So anytime they upplay us, we downplay ourselves. So I was like, yeah, no, we're pretty boring over here, man. It's like we just focus on sales and scaling teams. Nothing too crazy. Anytime they upplay us. Now, he didn't upplay you. He said, that's why I'm on the call. So big thing is, uh, you never give anybody fucking credit for at least having a conversation. That is the bare minimum.

Okay. Well,

I was like, well, hey man, and I appreciate you being on the call, but there's a difference between you taking a look at a gym and you going every Going in every single day, eating right, and actually working out. You know what I mean? It was like, help me understand. Like, and then you're right into the next thing. It's like, bro, you taking a look at a gym is not going to lose you weight. You taking a look on, you know, training for your team is not going to train the team.

Yeah.

That's the bare minimum. You know what I mean? So if we give him too much credit, especially with these people who are like, you know, a little bit more ego-driven, it just doesn't help you. Number one. Number 2, if we're looking, what is this guy's limiting pattern? Okay. He has absolutely no systems. None. Period. End of story. And that caused him for the first 15 years to burn out. And then now he doesn't actually see a way moving forward. That's the objection he was giving you at the end to where he could actually scale a team without physically having to be there. That's the problem. So in my head, I would ask him, it's like, well, man, like you're looking to build a team and everything like that. What do you feel like has prevented you in the past since this has been a constant problem of trying to build the systems, build a team, do all this like before? And I'm going to assume I could be wrong, but I'm going to assume it has something to do with control. I could be wrong, but that's a very common one where business owners, they want, like they have a hard time letting go of control. of certain aspects of things. All right. It could just be he's just disorganized and hasn't made it a priority. That also could be a very, very viable option of what the actual problem is. But I need to hit that hard because this has been 26 years, 26 years, and this guy doesn't know his numbers. He doesn't have systems. He doesn't have processes. Now, the first 15 years, okay, he was doing everything, right? Yep. So if you're just thinking about it, it's just been 11 years That he's just been fucking coasting. And then State Farm's changing their policy, which is now causing him to, like, he's being forced to do something. He doesn't want to do it. So it's like, we need to call it out. Like, well, hey man, it's been 11 years since you like stopped doing everything all yourself. What do you think has really held you back from putting systems, processes, and things in place so we can scale a team without you having to be involved in every little thing? Like, I need to get that. What's been really holding you back, man? Because it's been 11 years at this point.

What if he tries to just put it on State Farm? Like, oh, I was fine coasting. You know, like, would you just call that out? Like, why are we fine coasting?

Yeah. It's like, well, why are you fine coasting, man? Because I'll be the first one to tell you if this is something to where, um, like you're going to come into the program and you're going to want to coast on this. Like, I'm going to be the first one to tell you not to do it. Right. Just because again, if you come into us with that mentality, like you're not going to get any results. Like, dude, we're not. We're not magicians over here, right? We'll give you all the systems, but you gotta apply it.

Yeah.

I doubt he would say like, oh, like I'm fine coasting moving forward. I doubt he would. But if he does, you just gotta push back and just say, hey dude, if that's what you're looking to do, we're not a fit for you.

Okay.

Don't work with us. Do not buy this. Coast and take the income drop that you're gonna get with it.

A lot of these guys are showing up to the call because State Farm has those changes and they're now like, oh shit, we need to, We need to whip this in shape. And do I just want to address that and be like, why did it take, why did it take State Farm? You know? Okay.

Yeah. It's like, hey man, I got to ask you a pretty tough, pretty straightforward question. Why did it take State Farm changing its policies for you to actually start taking this thing seriously? And the reason why I ask is because the thing that's been holding you back from doing this without the external pressure is the thing that would hold you back from making this training actually pan out. Because we're not magicians over here. Okay? We don't help you cast spells on people. We have systems, we have processes, and if you follow them, you will get the result, but you gotta follow them.

Okay?

So what's really been holding you back? Right? So something along those lines.

No, that's, that's great. You were greatly involved with writing apps?

Yeah. Well, right. Yeah. I mean, early on, totally. And then even then it was more in the financial life. You probably had, if you wrote 60, 70, well, it depends on where, where initially it was me. Then I did have some life Good life salespeople. So I was a little less, but then I lost them and then I, you know, they replaced them and carried it back. So yeah, just, you know, keeping appointments, chasing stuff. You know, I just got tired of doing it.

Okay, got it. So you slowed down, you're kind of quote unquote coasting for the last few years, but with the AA28 changes, you know, I kind of let that fire.

They put a big sticker they're gonna start hitting me with. If, you know, they take away the carrot, now they put a sticker behind us.

Yeah. So I hear about all the time. Yeah. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. Okay. In terms of— I do want to talk a little bit about marketing before we get into kind of what we do. Are you just a referral base? Are you working just both books? Do you buy internet leads? What is the—

I've dabbled with internet leads. I really don't buy them. I do SEO, um, and the SEO stuff we use Bob Lutill, um, because, you know, I used— can't remember what their name was, whoever I used before, but then State Farm did all this change, so we just switched them. So I do the SEO, do the, you know, whatever daily tactics that State Farm has, new media stuff, um, and then I do a little direct mail. So I've always kind of just trickled direct mail just because I figured nobody else is probably doing it. So I kind of done that, uh, but I haven't really had success with internet leads. I bought them, I played with it, I dabbled with it. I feel like I probably just need a person committed solely to that if I was going to do that, but I feel like that space is so I wasn't getting any leads. I have to spend $50 to get a stinking lead and then we have to chase this lead. And I just felt like there's no traction being had there. And I've never really figured that one out, to be honest.

We can help with that too. So, I mean, we see a good part about working with us is just from working with hundreds of agencies, we see like millions of dollars get spent every month, all different internet lead generators, all that, the entire marketing umbrella. So we have really good data on what's working and what's not working, what channels are making money where you're at, you know, and what's losing money. Our goal, typically, how much do you spend on marketing per month? Just like a—

Right now, probably $1,200.

Okay. Our goal is to have for every $1,200 you put in, You get a 4x return from that, so you get $4,800 back. That's where we want you to go. This is not telling you to go out there and spend $10,000 a month on leads. It's the opposite of what we do. Usually when you start working with an agency, we'll have you turn down marketing a little bit. There have been cases where we had the agent turn off completely just until we really nail down the sales process and we know we're working every single lead to its full capacity and we're squeezing every bit of juice out of it before you go reinvesting. That way we know when we do start scaling, working up again, we're going to be getting that kind of return. So just want to kind of be upfront with you on like, this is not telling you to go buy everybody leads.

No, I like that. But I also get that there might be a place for it at some point.

Yeah.

If you got the right processes, the right system, the right people in place to do it right.

If you were getting 4 times your money back that you were spending, would you be mad at us?

Well, no, no. And I, and I, I recognize that we just don't have the right follow-up system and I never have. I've never been an internet lead buyer ever, you know? And you used to be able to get away with that. Well, not like since nowadays you gotta do that.

So, yep. Okay. That makes sense. Um, yeah, I mean, just based on kind of what you said, I think we could definitely help a lot with accountability.

Yeah. So it's like right there again, I would, I would spend more time expanding on the actual numbers. So it's like we have the $8,500. Where is it? What is he wanting this business to actually get to, if anything? Right. Is he looking to scale it up or is he looking just to make the same amount? That he's making currently with the new policy in place? And how much would he need to be making in order to do that? Like, I need to get a little bit more clear on the numbers, get a little bit more clear on the actual numbers gap of what he's currently doing. That will, that'll help you quite a bit. And just sit, create more doubt and expand, push back on these certain things. Non-committal language. The fact that he's trying and doing all this bullshit, just push, push back on that and just really hold this guy to account. on what's actually going on in his business. You're not doing this guy any favors by not actually diving into the metrics, the business, and then pushing back. If anything, you're doing him a disservice because then he can lie to you. He can lie to himself.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

Okay. So I would say that that would be the biggest thing, because I know like right now that's what we're focusing on is just really dialing in the actual problems, the pain, So like once we get the number, always, always, always like, hey, so it looks like we'd be leaving at the very least, if we're being conservative, $8,500. Do those numbers sound right to you? Make sure I always get buy-in on their number. And hey, that's going to impact every business a bit differently. You knowing you're leaving that on the table, like what does that actually do to the business? Not having the amount that we need coming in. What does that do to you as a business owner knowing that there's so many gaps that we need to fill.

Yep.

Okay. Is this something you're actually looking to change? Yes.

I would do this after discovery or before discovery? Because I get the numbers pretty quick.

So I would do it once you get the numbers.

Right in the beginning? Okay.

Yeah. And just a couple of just really easy probing questions that you can always ask on the back end of things when they're saying like, can you give me an example of that? What do you mean by that? You know, uh, can you expand on that? Just a couple of things to really get them to expand on their problem and don't try to fill their problem. Right? You feeling a bit nervous or you feeling a bit uncomfortable that this guy has problems with the then solution.

That's exactly what's happening.

So just allow him to sit in it. He needs to feel like the way you got to think about it, man. Okay. Put, put yourself if like in this guy's shoes, you've been doing this 26 years, 11 years of just coasting to get him from 11 years of just coasting into actually taking action and doing the shit that he needs to be doing. Do you think that's going to be a pleasant experience?

No,

no, dude. Like, he's gotta feel it because his pattern is doing, you know, coasting and not doing the things he needs to be doing. That's his pattern. So in order to jolt him out of his pattern, he needs to feel the weight of what that pattern has caused.

Yep.

And whatever that is for him, we don't know the stagnation of like what it actually does to him. Or what's this causing in the business or how this affects him personally. We know that potentially in the future, if he doesn't change, he's gonna get an income hit. How much of an income hit would he get? Do you know? Probably fucking tell him.

Oh, okay. It's like 40%. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you, like, how much is he making now?

I don't even know.

Right. But like, it's, it's seeing, it's things like, and, and with that, man, uh, so what we're seeing is like, uh, if, if I remember the policy correct, like you're gonna have a 40% hit in the amount of income that you're making. How much income are you making now? Just so have a bit of a gauge. Okay. So that would bring you down to this. Does that sound right? If we don't actually do something about this?

Yeah.

Make it real. It's like, what would that do to the business if it's like, hey, we're doing all this work and now we're making what, like $5,000 a month?

This is when I get the numbers asking that, or like here after the 4-pillar scan?

Whenever they bring it up.

Okay.

Whenever they bring up that they're changing their policies,

Okay. The contract changed. Like,

okay. Yeah. It's like, so when you get that, it's like, yeah, they're changing the policy. So it's like he said it towards the end as well. It's like, yeah, they're taking the carrot and they're giving the stick. Do you know how much your income would drop if we don't fix this? Dude, that's my favorite question. Do you mind if we do the math? Yep. It's going to be this. And they'll be like, oh fuck yeah, it's going to be that. Right? And then it makes it real. There should be a visceral reaction out of them. It's like, So not only, hey, right now we're leaving this much on the table. If we don't do anything about this, we're going to be losing out on this amount of money.

Okay.

How'd your life be differently if you go from making $10,000, now you're making, you know, $6,000 a month, right? Get them to actually like feel it.

Yeah. Total for 6 months. And then it's $3,500 for that. If I want to keep going month to month to access the platform or what?

$3,700. Close

enough. Yep. Gotcha. Okay. All right. Kind of thinking the 6-month deal is probably what I need because I don't know if you can get that much. You can get that 3. If you go to 3 and want to get another 3, I don't know. But what do most people do? What's the—

Yeah, I mean, I think we can get by with the $9K option. A lot of teams do commit to 6 months because it's a better deal, but it's entirely up to you, man.

Oh, I don't know.

This is my first time. This is my lead. We just came out with that $16K 6-month option. This is like my first call. I went in without knowing how to present it.

Yeah. So I always lead. So it's like, here's the thing, I'll tell them the options and I'll tell them which one I feel like is going to be best for them. It's like, hey, for you, what I think's going to be best is going to be this just from what I see.

Okay.

Now he straight up asks you, just tell him. It's like, yeah, what I would say if we're really looking to take this seriously, the $16K is going to be the option. The only reason people do the $9,000 is if they just cannot afford the $16K.

That's good. I'll say that.

Okay. Everyone does the $16K. It only do, they only do the 9 if they cannot afford it. That's why it's there. And then the beauty of it is we get your income up, we get your sales up, then we can roll you into the 6. That's normally what people do. So if we do the 9, just understand that's a stepping stone to the 6 or the 16.

Yep.

Oh, so yeah.

I mean, if you're gonna commit to this, I think the $16K option for 6 months, It's gonna be best for you. You're gonna get the best results. It's the best deal financially. It's actually, it's actually 7 months, this whole thing, because again, we give you the month of platform access. So if we sign you up today, we would basically give you the platform for a full month and then the coaching would start November 6th. I'm not sure what day that falls,

but

yeah, we start November 6th and then 6 months of coaching starts then.

Otherwise with the 3-month, it's like, so you get a month of just doing the platform and doing the modules, right? No coaching, really no nothing. And then after that month, that's when the coaching starts.

Exactly. So even this VK option is actually 4 months total.

And then your 90 days starts after the 30 days.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Just to show you a quick visual, like, okay, this is for the 3-month option. This blue bar is platform performance.

Up against right now, in the next few weeks, I have a full knee replacement going on starting Friday. I don't know what that's going to look like. I know I won't be mobile, so that's good. Too much? Well, probably a little bit. But there's more of the drugs they talk about that'll be on the payment. So how effective I'm going to be doing anything for the next couple weeks, I'm not sure. So probably don't want to start this until I've got that kind of figured out and then ready to go. So, and then you do the full payment up front? You do it, break it out over the 3 months? How's that work?

I mean, most agencies just pay the whole thing up front. If that's a challenge, you know, we can talk about options. But I mean, typically, how long are you anticipating that we have for knee replacement?

Okay. So it's like from here, I would just go, okay, no, no worries. When it comes to like the knee replacement, are we shutting the business down for a few weeks or are your team members still going to be taking and doing the things they need to be doing?

Okay. To make them realize that they're not shutting down.

Yeah. He's not shutting down the business. It's like, and it's like, oh no, like I'm not going to be shutting down the business. Yeah. And like the beauty about what we do, Is if we required you to do all the training, right? Like it's not very scalable. And that would make sense why we'd need to push this off. We're not requiring you to do the training. They just need to go through the resources that we're going to give them.

Yeah.

Okay. You do, like, I understand right now it's like you always had this mentality of you leading from the front and you having to do everything. We're not doing that any longer. That's what led us here. So would it make sense for you to have your team go through this, even if you're not over their shoulder making sure they do so that way, at least they start to get better?

Yeah. I mean, the first month is literally just them going through the modules. Like there's no coaching calls, so it doesn't matter what he's doing.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Makes absolutely no sense.

I got it in about 3 or 4 weeks.

Yeah. I mean, I was hoping 1 week or less, but it doesn't sound like that's a possibility, but I mean, it's just getting off the meds. So it's kind of like if I'm on an oxycodone, you know, drug, I'm probably not going to be very effective at doing

And it's like we're kind of we're buying into the frame by asking him, well, how long is it going to take? Like what you do, he's not giving the accountability. He's not giving the training. That's also part of the problem. He's not able to do this. He hasn't been doing it. That's why he's hiring you. Okay. So it's like he doesn't need to be there. He just needs them to log in.

But if I get off of that, I think you walk the day up.

So

I'm anticipating one week probably on the short end, and you know, I hope it's not more than two, but maybe I'll take. I'm sure I'll have pain, but I'll be able to do you. Get to the office, do stuff. I'm just not doing jumping jacks and running, you know. So,

um, well, the first month, keep in mind, the first month you're not really, not really doing that much. You're just having the team go through the trainings and hop on the group calls, and that's pretty much it. So this would be perfect while you're rehabbing. You know, the coaching hasn't really started yet, and you got a whole month, right? And then, I mean, if we even need to give you like 5 weeks and have to start on like November 9th or something like that, give you a few extra days, we could do, we could do that, no problem.

Okay. Um, do you have a list? I think, did you send me of, uh, agents that are using the program, kind of referrals that I can reach out locally? I know—

yeah, I mean, I can send you a list of testimonials that we have. Everybody on here said they'd be happy if you want to give them a call and ask. And then I can't remember if there's something we could add into it. I'll roughly send you this list.

Well, I guess if there's anybody here in my market that's used you in the last, you know, 6 to 12 months, I'd love that too.

What do you— okay, what do you want to hear from them in order to make a decision on this?

Time commitment, you know, results, areas that they were struggling, that they've got clarity on. I don't know, just kind of overall thing.

Okay. Yeah, I'm happy to send you a list of whatever you need, but isn't that— I'm just gonna ask, like, is that—

well, no, not really, because I don't even know what to ask either, right? So I mean, a little bit, but not a whole lot because I just heard about it. I'm talking, so I didn't really know what to even ask or what to. So let me ask you this too. How long you been with them? What's who's the trainer guy? I feel like a lot of this is dependent upon that. But he's seen like now he's seen like people.

Yeah. So it's like this is why it's like if they got like oh like I want to talk to people blah blah blah. Well well okay. It's like we can maybe set that up, man. Like you've already talked to a person. What do you want to go over with them that maybe we just didn't cover here today? Or what do you want to go over with them that again? If you look at the case studies, you think they're going to say anything different than what we already have them saying on camera?

That's good.

Like, what's going on? And then from there it's like, oh, well, it's like, I just want to hear from them, blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay. And if I send you somebody, I'm completely biased, you know, I'm biased. Do you think I'm going to send you somebody who has a bunch of bad things to say, or am I going to send you somebody who got great results and they're going to say good things? Yep. But it's like, yeah, I'm going to send you somebody who has gotten great results. So whatever it is you're looking for out there, man, you're going to find it. Like there are 1-star reviews of puppies. Okay. So it really comes down to ultimately what you're looking for. So are you looking for reasons to just not do this and get out of it? Or are you actually looking for reasons to do this, take your business seriously and actually grow it?

Fuck, that's good.

Right? Like put it on him. Like he, what he's doing right now is he's trying to look for a way out.

He's reaching. Yeah.

Yeah, bro. And then he's trying to flip it on you. Oh, well, you convinced me why I should take my business seriously. You convinced me why I'm leaving all this money on the table and I can't be fucked to track any of my data, right? Like, dude, what are we talking about?

Yeah, I'm with you.

You find those, how are they training? What's their story?

Yeah, so most of them came, I think probably 95% of them came from State Farm. A lot of them came from Georgia's office too, but we recruited them. They were all top producers. They were top team members. Typically they were doing themselves anywhere from 70 to 90 apps a month with like 10 to 15 life and health apps. So they've been through this. They understand it completely. They're more than happy to be coached. You know, they either either stay where they're at, you know, be a top team member, become an agent, or become a coach. And they decided to come work with us.

So, Abigail, what's your story?

Okay, so it's like boom, we state it, we push the call forward. Here's the issue: you said it. Now it's like you said it, then he hears it, and then he's going to ask another question. He's in qualifying mode. We need to flip it back on him. Yeah, he's got the. Sorry. Yeah, it's like yeah, and then like they came, they you know came in to be a coach, and again, that's why you see all the results. In terms of people coming in and the results that they get, that they've gotten. And I will say the number one thing, the number one trait across all the people who've gotten good results is they're committed to put in the work. So for you, are you actually committed to make something like this actually work?

Okay. So you answer the question, then go right back into it.

Push it forward. Yeah, dude. And the issue is if you just say the question and then you stop naturally, just, uh, through the flow of the conversation, she's just gonna ask another question. It puts us on the back foot, puts us in defense. No bueno.

I've done a little bit of everything in my career. Actually, this is about 10 years ago. I used to sell knee replacements. So actually, I sat in orthopedic surgeries. My company made the parts that are going to go into you for your knee. I'd have to answer questions from the surgeon as they were implanting into you. Then I got into insurance a couple years ago, selling life insurance. And then I recruited into this.

Nice. What company was the knee manufacturer? Was it Stryker?

No, Stryker's our big competitor. I worked for Smith Nephew.

Okay. Yeah, familiar with that too. I got a buddy that sells those things. I kind of did all the research, so that's why I know anything about it.

Yeah, definitely. But I mean, I could send you all references you need at the end of the day, but like, do you feel like this is gonna, you know, are you confident that this is what's gonna help turn the agency around?

I mean, it seems good. Yeah, from what you're telling me, it sounds great.

Um, what parts do you think are gonna help the most?

Probably the WordTracks, the discussions, the coaching with the team, the, you know, the videos perhaps. Um, and just having that in the systems, right? And then for me, accountability.

You don't seem too sure, man.

So what's holding us back from doing this?

Well, $9,000 is a lot of money just for a, you know, hasn't even been an hour conversation. I just mentioned I usually don't meet people and throw $9,000 within an hour. Um, so I mean, I know there's a lot of other— I mean, my whole mindset has been, listen, I got here, there's like 5 other of these

Dude, he's a fucking salesperson. He doesn't want to buy. Like, what is he talking about?

Yeah. It's kind of training programs out there, right? Which one's the best fit is what I'm trying to disseminate and just figure out what one I want to go with. You are the first one. I haven't listened to any of the other ones. So I've got a couple other calls with some other ones that I was going to research and then I was going to make a decision.

What's going to be on?

Okay. So it's like right here. Does he have a criteria on what's going to be the best fit for him?

I ask that next, I think.

Okay. Yeah.

I hear you on that. So What's going to be other deciding factors? Like one thing you're looking for, like this program has ABC and then don't tell me.

I don't even know. No, I don't even— that's part of what I'm exactly looking for other than obviously results, everything you're saying, training team. So I know there's others out there that are doing this as well, but it's just a matter of what one's going to be the right fit. I mean, you seem great, but I kind of want to hear from the others before I just recommend for the money that you're asking for.

Okay. But I mean, what you said earlier, like this has just about everything that you're looking for, right?

Seems to.

So

actually, you don't seem too sure. Push back on that shit. He's giving me such wishy-washy answers and it's like right here he's like, oh, like I don't have a criteria. So it's like, hey man, like, can I just be super straightforward with you? If you don't have a deep understanding, like, of your numbers, what it is you're actually looking for, the criteria, anything along those lines, how sitting on another presentation like this, how is this actually going to help the business? That's good.

Just call it out.

It's like, yeah, just call it out, man. It's like, hey, if you're talking to a prospect and you're talking to them about life insurance, And they don't really have a lay of the land of what they should be quoted and different things like that. Does it actually help them to talk to 10 different agents?

Yep. Would you—

it's like, here, like, here's the issue, man.

Go ahead.

It's like right now, do you feel like if you are, if one of your reps are actually talking to somebody and they give this exact same objection, it's like, yeah, I just met you. I don't want to do the life insurance. Like, let me just like look around all this different stuff. Are you actually able to help that person or do you let them off the call and they go off into the ether and it's like, dude, half the time they never actually get the insurance policy. It's the same thing here, man. How do you expect us to help you to actually start to overcome that if you can't overcome that own objection in your own mind right now?

Yep.

All right. And again, this is for sales training, absolute fucking cheat code. You just always, you can flip it and turn it around on them. Now for this guy in particular, it's just like, yeah, we're falling a bit too much into his frame.

Yep.

That's, that's a bit of the issue right now. And because we're falling a bit too much into his frame and we've allowed him to lie, we've allowed him to be so wishy-washy at the end, what it would take to jolt him out of it is going to be fairly straightforward, right? So ideally, We do less straightforward, but it's like we're still pushing back in the discovery so that by the time we get to the objections, we don't need to do this bullshit because we already called it out. We already addressed it.

Okay.

So just understand the longer that this goes on for, the longer he shows a behavior and it's not addressed, the harder it is going to be to shake him out of that.

Yep. So start the first time you hear it, just correct it in real time. Yeah. Okay. Really? You look at the other options if this has everything?

Well, yeah, because I'm gonna look at the other options because I got some agents recommending other options. So I, you know, also respect. So yeah, I'll follow back up with you. I mean, today's only Tuesday. Um, I'll probably— yeah, I mean, I can— by the end of the week I have an idea where I want to go with this, I suppose.

When's your

Friday morning? Right and early.

All right. So I mean, I like— you're gonna be shot on Friday.

Yeah, Friday I'm probably not gonna make any decision. So if I can make a decision, I hear what you're saying. It might be a good time to work on the modules next couple weeks while I'm at home and work on mine, focus on it, kind of like that. Although I kind of like— would like to be off drugs when I'm doing it too. So, um, My thought is I probably want to start if I did move forward with you when I do in a couple of weeks.

Okay. So then from there, just straight bullshit.

Okay. Let me do, I mean, you think you'll have your decision made if you want to do.

Okay. So, and it's again, you can always either flip that on them. It's like, hey, when somebody tells you like, hey, it's going to take them a couple of weeks to go ahead and decide on a policy, how likely is it they actually come back and get that policy after a couple of weeks? Yeah. Very unlikely. Have you ever heard of Parkinson's Law? Right. It's a law that's like, hey, The work expands to the time that we give it. For example, when you're in school, if they gave you like 3 months to write a paper, it took you 3 months. But if they gave you 2 days to write the same paper, did you get it done in 2 days?

Yep.

Same thing here, man. Putting more time in between you and this decision, all it does is it just makes it to where we're leaving more and more money on the table. It doesn't make us make a better decision because our decision process will expand to the time that we give it. Versus if you tell yourself and you actually are dedicated to it, you put the time you're required— like, that is required to make this decision by Thursday afternoon, you'll also get that work done. The only difference is the standard of which you hold yourself to. So I gotta ask, man, what standard are you willing to hold yourself to? The standard that allows you to get to the point where we're leaving this much money on the table each and every month and we push this off for a couple weeks, Or the standard of somebody who is doing much, much more, right? Ideally, like the part of the issue here when some of these frames is I don't understand what he's actually trying to get to.

I don't think he does either.

Right. So it's like, the issue is when I make a, like a contrast between like where you're at now to where you want to be, I don't know this part. Right. So I'm putting generic labels on it. Just understand that because I don't have the information, it'd be better if I had the information.

Okay.

So I would say the biggest thing in terms of like what to go ahead and improve on Just sit in the pain, ask a few questions before you ever try to fill up the pain with the, uh, with the actual solution. Expand on it, tie numbers to it, right? Your new favorite question, do you mind if we do the math?

Yep.

Does that sound right? They're like, oh dude, that does sound right. Like, make it actually hurt, I would say. And then once we get that down, then once we get an understanding, where do they actually want to go? What's the outcomes they're looking for? That way, at least we have a contrast where they're at, where they want to go. And so then when we're in objection handling, we're just like, okay, really comes down to the type of business owner we're going to be, the person where we're at, the person where we want to go, right? Let's just say like, you know, 7-figure, you know, insurance agency owner versus like fucking 6-figure, right? Real easy contrast. And then like, that's what the decision then becomes about. It's not about sales training. Sales training is just a vehicle to become the person who they want to be, but we need to know where they want to go in order to help them become that person. But right now, if you just get really good at dialing in the numbers and the pain, it's like, we'll be able to, we, we, like, you won't even need that for a good chunk of people. But for some of those people, I think like this guy, it's like, we're going to need the contrast.

Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah, this is great. I just got to get more uncomfortable sitting in pain because it's like your, your first reaction, if you're not used to this, your first reaction is just to make it better and move forward. Um, but that's not doing him any good.

Yeah, dude, he needs to know how bad this problem actually is. Like that, that's also a big thing. And he needs to feel bad about this. Like my thought process, man, is like there are life decisions. Have led them on a call with me. My decisions didn't lead you here. Your life decisions left you here. So if we're going to make different decisions moving forward, we have to first admit like our life decisions led us here and that is not okay right now. We need to talk about doing better. Yeah. So that's what I would say the biggest thing. And again, if you notice like the, like, and I'm sure you hear like you, you, like you, you have it in the back of your head. You're like, he's being wishy-washy and just saying bullshit.

Yeah. When they're like possibly or potentially, maybe any of that bullshit.

It's like, you don't sound too sure.

Just call it out.

Just like call it out. Just call it out, man. And I will say like, when you call it out, like bring those to the, to the group calls and then we'll refine it. But it's like the very first thing, like just, let's just get comfortable saying the thing out loud.

Okay.

Real easy one you can do. Real easy one. This frame will work no matter what. Okay. And you're like, hey man, can I tell you a red flag that I hear keep coming up?

Yeah, go ahead.

This is coming up and this is what it's telling me. So I want to address it so it doesn't hold us back.

Okay.

Real easy one.

That's good.

You can, you can literally plug in anything for that. It's like, hey man, can I tell you a red flag that keeps coming up? You keep on telling me that you're going to try to do things or you've been trying to do things. The problem with that is there is no trying business. You either did it or you didn't do it. Okay? So my main concern is we're telling ourselves we're trying and just not doing it, which is just going to hold the business back. So have you actually been doing it or have we not been doing it? For example.

Okay.

But you can literally plug that in any, anything. Now, yeah, obviously don't overuse it. Don't say it like 5 times on a fucking call. Right? Right. It's like you got that One, maybe 2 times.

Yep.

But it's something really easy that you can start to do. And if you ever feel like, hey, I'm gonna say things and it might come across harsh, just pre-frame it, right? It's like, hey man, and I'm only saying this because I want to see you do the best and actually get good results. If we're going to help you, then you say it.

Okay.

Right? You soften it a little bit, but you're already softening it. You're like, hey, can— do you mind if I tell you a red flag? You're already asking, you're getting permission. And if you really want to soften it, you can go and say, and I'm only telling you this because again, I've had thousands of these calls and I want to see you actually get results. This is what's coming up. This is what it's telling me. And this is why it's a problem. Do we want to change this?

Yeah, that's perfect.

Okay, cool. Any other questions on that call or what we went over?

No, no, no, man. That was, that was awesome. Really helpful.

Cool. Well, hopefully this has been helpful, guys. And if you want me to review your calls, Check out the first link in the description. If not, leave your biggest takeaway in the comments, and I'll see everybody next time.