Why Astrology Actually Makes Sense

Welcome to Heart Led Soul Fed, the podcast for empaths, seekers, and heart-centered humans rising out of burnout and awakening into their intuition. I'm Christine J Gold, mentor, author, speaker, and a guide through spiritual awakening, emotional healing, and deep soul remembrance. Each week we explore the magic, the messiness, and the meaning behind your healing journey. From trauma to transformation, from burnout to embodiment, from intuition to inner peace. So take a deep breath, settle into your heart, and remember, you are safe here, you are supported here, you are seen here. This is Heart Led Soul Fed. Let's rise together. Today's episode, I'm joined by Indra Rinzler, a Vedic astrologer, anagram guide, and longtime world traveler who has devoted more than 50 years to understanding the human experience. Indra specializes in sidereal-based Vedic astrology, astrocartography, and consciousness studies, helping people interpret their energetic blueprint and navigate life with deeper insight. He is also the author of the upcoming book Indra's Net: A Seeker's Guide to the Human Experience. Indra brings a calm wisdom and practical clarity to topics like destiny, purpose, insecurity, and personal growth. I'm so excited for you to experience his perspective today.

The last, uh, 10, 15 years, and I started studying astrology more than 50 years ago, along with when I started on the spiritual path. And, um, I use other modalities in order to help people to wake up to who they really are, to guide them out of conditioned stories and to live in the moment. I have, uh, I, I, I've been a world traveler for 25 years. I winter in India and, uh, which, uh, we'll be at in about an, uh, another month. For 4 months. And, um, I lived in a spiritual community for 20 years. I, I was an importer for 12 years, uh, um, and then, and then I was ready to do the astrology. And, um, that's the simple story. Oh, I—

and I love that you winter in India and I meet a lot of folks from India that are now here living in Canada, and they tell me about all the wonderful places, and I definitely need to go, and you need to go here, and you need to go there. Have you been all over India, and what is your favorite part of India?

Well, I have been all over India, but I think it would require lifetimes in order to do all of India. But there isn't really a part. That I haven't been in. There's obviously places I haven't been to. I normally winter in Rishikesh, which is where the Beatles were in northern India. And this year I'm only going to be there half the time. But favorite is not one of my favorite words, but I would say that it's probably Rishikesh. It's where I feel family and a place that I have been going to for so many years that, that I feel comfortable there.

Okay. Because that's what everyone was recommending, that I— that's where I go.

Okay.

Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. So it's— I mean, you know, I mean, the reality of it is it has its problems, but, but the, the, the The oversaturation. These places were nothing and had nobody in them, and then everybody started coming.

Yeah.

And I like to say I used to go, not to get too far off the field here, but Pokhara, Nepal, when I went there in 1986, I saw 5 guest houses. It's now a million people, they tell me. I haven't been back in 20-plus years, but there's a million people living there now. And so this is what's happened, that all of the places— Bali, you know, that everybody goes to, and all the places— I suppose Costa Rica isn't going to be too far behind, but they get oversaturated. And then people, you know, people that used to go there say, well, I don't want to go there anymore. And And, um, so we're looking for new places, but, um, ultimately to, to, to really cut through the, the goal is to, is to go inside. There really is no place to be. There is nothing to do. It's only about going inside and, and, and, and finding the joy within.

Oh, I love that. Uh, cuz I know a lot of people have caught the travel bug. I, You know, I sold everything in 2021. I became a world traveler, and I know exactly what you're talking about. Um, oh, it's gonna be Bali, or it's gonna be somewhere else, right? But I'm gonna, like, it's gonna be the place, and then I'm gonna know I'm feel at home. And through my own trials and tribulations and a lot of aha moments and a lot of humility, I'm like, no. It's wherever you are there, you know, there you are. Yes.

And so the aha moments and the humility are really the goal. And if we could do it in Calgary or if we could do it and we do, we do it at home. But we, but we need, you know, we need the new romance and we need the new grocery store and we need to try the new restaurant and we and, you know, and the new movie and it's just It's, it's part of our, uh, it's part of the stickiness of the human, uh, condition. And, uh, and there's nothing wrong with it. But the fact is, is that, uh, that, that the traveling is, is very helpful and, and, and for a while, and then the timing changes and our conditions change, the planets change. And, and then, um, We have different points of view and different, you know, after a while, it's nice to settle down and not, and not travel.

Agreed. I feel that in my whole being, for sure. Thank you for sharing that. And I mean, Vedic astrology, would you explain that? Like, if there's a book for dummies, could you explain that, please?

Sure. So, so I'm assuming you're, you're familiar with Western astrology. The— I like to say that the astrology isn't really very different. That, that I like to say that the Vedic don't agree with Vedic and Western don't agree with Western. So Vedic and Western don't agree, that's pretty much the same. The astrology is kind of the same. The, the— we don't use the outer planets. But the main difference is that we cast the chart based on sidereal time, star time, not on tropical time. Tropical time, Western astrology, the seasons are— this, the Aries zero is March 21st every year because it's based on the seasons. It's based on the relationship between the Earth and the Sun. But in sidereal astrology, or stars. Sidereal means stars. We take the Earth and then we take the sun and we take the sky behind the sun. And the sky behind the sun is different every year because the sun is moving through the universe according to the precession of the equinox. It's a 20, almost a 26,000-year cycle. And so 72 years equals 1 degree. That's 360 into 25,800. And so, and so the two systems were the same around 400 AD, but now we're 24 degrees different. And it goes backward. And so the Western astrologer says Virgo, and the Vedic astrologer says Leo. And this is why the fixed nature of Leo has been identified with Virgo when it's actually an earth mutable sign. It's the Woodstock goddess, but yet it has become this afflicted, uptight, anal, being because Western astrologers see what we call Leo, they see, they call it Virgo, but they see the fixed nature of Leo. And so the Virgo, the Virgo nature has changed.

Hmm, that's really interesting. Okay, my mind is being bent as we speak. So probably going to take me a couple days or, you know, to Well, they had all of this information.

So, so what happens is, is that people, um, people identify as a Virgo Sun, and, and, and so I would say you're a Leo Sun, but, but chances are that something else moves into Virgo, and so it becomes— so you say, well, no, I have a Virgo nature, but it maybe becomes your Mars, or maybe it's your Venus, or or Jupiter, it doesn't really matter. I'm just picking up planets. But something else comes in there. And so you have that flavor, but it isn't necessarily the same planetary, the same planet that, that you may have thought from the two charts. It's, it's very, it can be confusing. I like to say that, that we have different, the We have different, different selves. I like to say that the one that's at work with the coworkers and the one that's with the parents and the one that's with the in-laws and the one that's on vacation and the one that's out with her girl buddies and the one that's out with the husband or with the family and the kids is very different. The clothes are different. The attitudes are different. The hair is going to be different. And, and, and so this is the same way, is that we have a, we have a personality based on the tropical chart. And then when we go 24 degrees backwards, then we have a sidereal chart, and its nature is a little bit different. And, and while plenty of Western astrologers are using Western astrology in order to create in order to explain spirituality and evolution, which is, you know, evolutionary astrology, which is so popular now. You know, we do it, we do it in the sidereal chart. And, and we, we say, somehow we say the same things, but we have completely different causes of saying it.

And I—

Yeah, and I, I would agree. And I would even say that we can be like you were talking about, zodiac signs at any— in our life. You can resonate with this piece and that piece. I—

absolutely. And you can even read somebody's chart that's completely different. Like, you can slip up AM and PM, or, or, you know, '74 for '73, you know, 1974 instead of 1973. And somehow which actually a year later, the chart may not be all that different. But even if it's different, somehow, no matter what we say, the people say, well, yeah, that's really— yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's who I am. Somehow, no matter what we say, I think that's just the power of astrology, that somehow it has it— even when it's wrong, it has a way of creating insights.

Absolutely. And interesting you brought up Virgo. That's my youngest sister, but I, I identify as a Capricorn double Aries. So, um, I can see where I get my, because I, you know, I always joke with my friends. I'm pretty feisty. Most of the time, very calm, but sometimes very explosive. And we just had that full moon in Aries. So I really felt that. Um, So they— I'm— am I right in saying that Vedic astrology is ancient and older, obviously, than Western astrology?

Uh, maybe, but maybe not. I think that, I think that most of the rules— I mean, there is no— why they call it Vedic astrology, there is no astrology in the Vedas, not the astrology that, that people are using in their readings. The ancient Vedas. They came up with the term as a marketing ploy. So, so a lot of the rules came from the last 1,200 years. So they're not really that old. They actually, you know, they cross-pollinated back when the trade with the trading routes. So I would say that Western astrology, the Western astrology we do now, probably is not as old. Because a lot of those rules are within the last 100 or 200 years in Western astrology. I would say that Indian astrology, not Vedic astrology, because that's only 40 years old. But Indian astrology would be, would be older, but it isn't necessarily ancient. The rules have come to us since Christ. And, um, and, um, so that— yeah, that's the way I would, I would look at it. And, and I want to say, uh, since you've said Capricorn, Aries, to me that would be Sagittarius, Pisces. And so it's the Sagittarius is the fire, and it's not what you consider the Aries. To me, those would be the Pisces.

Uh-huh. No, and I actually— that— and my sister, who is like a year less than 2 years in age, she's a Sagittarius. And I always read— like, when I watch readings, I'll watch hers because I really— I don't know, always been drawn to it. Here we are.

Yeah. Yeah. So still, that's my point. Still fire, but not, not exactly the— that's mutable fire. Not the Cardinal Fire.

Yeah. No, I, I'm glad you brought that up. And I, this is very, this is fascinating. Um, and I, I believe I reached out to you because I saw you on a Facebook group page for astrocartography and relocation. So how did you get in? Or maybe you should explain what astrocartography is. And I even had to pull told my— a lot of people online, and nobody had— they have no idea what that means.

Okay, well, astrocartography is the— is the power of place that— that— that this man named Jim Lewis about 40 years ago figured out a way to— most people know about ley lines. Ley lines are— are powerful centers on Earth. Well, this isn't— these are personal ley lines. That based on your chart, he figured out a way to put the lines of the planets on the, on the Earth, and the lines are each of the planets' 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th house. It's very interesting because in astrocartography, we say that the most powerful— he said the most powerful point of the chart is 0°, 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th house. And I have to say, I've never heard that except in astrocartography, that that's the most powerful. 0° is the most powerful. I I wouldn't have said that, but okay. And astrocartography, that is the idea. And, and so these, these lines are created, uh, based on your particular chart. And, and, and, and my chart and your chart may not look anything alike, even though we may have, uh, we may both— we both are Capricorn, uh, have Capricorn, uh, in our Western chart, which may become for me becomes Sagittarius and may become for you. That doesn't mean that the lines are going to look any the same. But the lines are places of intense energy. And, and the simple story is that people think that the lines are good and no lines are bad. But of course, that's totally simplistic because, because the lines are intense. And yes, if you go to a Jupiter line, you, you may become more expansive. But if you want to. But if expansion is scary, then it's going to bring out your fears rather than, rather than this joy. If you're, if you're an extroverted, then that Jupiter line may be really good. But if you're an introvert, then that Jupiter line may feel blocked and uncomfortable.

Yeah. I see a lot of people asking, where should I live? I'm in between these two lines. And then, you know, people are talking about ascendant and descendant, and then they're talking about certain planets. Like, are they say, is the Sun the best line to be around? Does it matter?

Well, I mean, it, It best is again, is a bit of a value judgment. If you, if you, if you don't know who you are, and you really want to come into your own energy, then the Sun line may be really good. But if you're, but if you're egotistical, then by nature, then, then a Sun line is going to be too much, you know. So, so, so it isn't— this is the problem is it isn't an absolute that, that it's that it's, you know, like, like, like having kids may be perfect for one woman and another woman says, wouldn't think of it, you know. And, and, and is it better to be married or single? Well, you know, if you've divorced 3 times, maybe single is better, you know.

So you have a history.

Yeah. So, so there is no— there is— it isn't an absolute that, that you're looking for Sun line. You're looking for a way to express express your own energy. And, and we had some discussions recently that the places with no lines, I call them quiet places. And, and, and, and so for some people, they, they can be really good. I had a client a few years ago locally, and, and she was not doing— there weren't good lines where we were, where we live here locally. And she was talking about, I would say, mid-50s, maybe early 60s. Going to live with her daughter in South Carolina where there were no lines. And I said, great. I said, you need to go there for a bunch of months and you need to be able to think because with these lines going on, you can't make a realistic, a good decision because you're just bombarded with energy, you know?

Yeah. Oh, that's very interesting. That's fascinating. I resonate with that because I've been in certain places where I'm like, where's the off switch? Yeah. Wow. Okay. I love that. And I actually, and we will, I will leave links for people to do their, because they'll be like, well, how do you do that? Well, I believe it's astro.com and then there's Astro Dentist? Where you can go, but you need to know your birth time. Is that not important?

Well, you need to know your birth time, and it does actually change quite a bit within a relatively short period of time. And so it needs to be exact, which of course we may or may not have. But, but like anything, it's an indication and, and you know, the reality of it is that I may not be using the right chart, but I may be in— but I may instead be telling you what you need to hear, even if my, even if my information isn't accurate.

Yeah, no, I, I can see that, how that could play into that. Because when I went and did mine, I asked— I believe you had come on and there was somebody else commenting, is there's a, like, this gap, like you said, this space, and it was India all the way up through to Russia and middle parts of Russia. And I'm like, I've never been there, but now I'm really fascinated and, and would love to go.

So, well, the lines, the lines go, they may have a little bit of an east and west angle to them, but they mostly go north and south. So if you go, if you go if you go north or south, then your lines aren't changing too much. If you go east and west, then you have more change. And yeah, and, and the, the, the, the interesting— another interesting aspect is that, um, is the relocation chart, that, that, that you have, um, that if you have a 12th house Sun and you've, and you, you know, you'd like to get a little bit more grounded. Well, if you go to another place in the world, then as you go all the way around, the Sun will visit every, every house. And so you can actually— I mean, it doesn't mean you can find a good place. But, but let's say you want to be creative, and we can get that Sun in the 5th house. Well, where would that be? Well, it it would be, you know, if it's 12th house, then you'd have to go almost all the way around the world. And there you would find, you know, you can, you can figure out a place where the Sun would be in the 5th house and everything else would shift. It doesn't change sign, and it doesn't change degree, but the rising sign will change. And, and the, and the houses will change. And this is wonderful. This can be a wonderful aspect. And I, like, for me in India, I have the exact reverse chart. In other words, my 7th house Sun becomes a 1st house Sun in India. And, and, and what I'm not saying that everybody will do well with this, but it really can be very helpful to have these opposite charts in order to, or even, even at angles and even, even any houses, like, like a stellium, 4, 3 or 4 planets in the 6th house, uh, you know, go east or west, you know, get out of that 6th house, whether it's 5th house or 7th house. It's, it's, it's, it's difficult to have so many planets on this, on, on the 6th house because the, the physical plane problems become very personal and very directed. So how do we mitigate that energy? By moving, we can move those planets to a 5th house or 7th house. We can go 1,000 miles and change, and, and that can, that can make a huge difference for people. So when we do the reading, let me just sum it up. So when we do the reading, when, when you— yeah, you can go to, to astro.com and astrodent or something.com, and, and then there's people in that Facebook group that say that some are accurate and some aren't. And I can't tell you which one because I use my own software. But, but the fact is, is that it's more— you really need to be, you know, there are some things that we can cure on Google medically, but there are times we need to go to the doctor. And in this case, to really understand all of the ramifications of the movement and what's good for me and where am I going, where should I go and where shouldn't I go and all of that. It's really helpful to have either a professional or somebody who really knows what they're doing because the amateur doesn't really get the subtleties involved with the, with the, the energies of the, all the energies involved.

Let's pause for a moment, beautiful soul. If you're ready for deeper guidance, my private coaching and soul mentorships are open. You'll find the links in in the show notes or head on over to Christine J Gold. A loving thank you to today's partners. Organika, spelled with a K, is one of my favorite Canadian nutrition brands for energy balance and whole body wellness. Visit organika.com and use my code Christine J Gold_25 for 25% off your order. And Natura Soy, a women-owned, eco-conscious Canadian company creating plant-based luxury candles and wellness rituals since 2005. Enjoy 10% off at naturasoy.ca/mediumchristinegold with code mediumchristinegold. Now let's return to the conversation.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And really, you Yeah. Have an expert involved, but also if you really wanna do like a deep dive, then like for me, I need to see it. So I almost need like the world map and I will actually trace out my own lines. Like that's how I'm a big picture. Think that's how I, that's how I move in the world. And for me to see it, it almost like it becomes, well, we all have that inner blueprint, but then it, it, it's almost like a, a vibrational match. And it just becomes part of who I am. So very interesting.

Well, you can, yeah, you can get it on astro.com and you can take a look at it. And I, I'm thinking it's a little bit like the medical test, you know, you know the results, but you don't know what they mean. And, and so, and, and, and the only reason I'm not so much promoting professionals, which isn't really what I would do, but every day in this website, in this Facebook group, people say, here's my chart, what does it mean? And, and it's not a simple answer because we don't know what they're looking for, we don't know what they want, we don't know their age, we don't know where they— where they're living or where they're not living. And what—

yeah, you need backgrounds, you need— yeah, yeah. Otherwise you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall. I, I get it, I, I do.

And, and my point is, is, is that everybody is— most people end up throwing spaghetti at the wall and not understanding that to really get it, you need to have all of these questions answered, even though, even though this has been said, I've been in the group, I don't know, 4 years. And, and, you know, every day this comes up.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh, and, and the reason I had mentioned MAP is I'm also doing genealogy with my family, with my sister, like we're going back. So I see them very similar in a way. Um, and it is time-consuming, um, and it takes a lot of patience, uh, perseverance, and having somebody else with you or multiple people with you. It's like having another set of eyes and ears, and it's very helpful to collaborate with other people. So even though I had— we had— I had mentioned this, that I had a relocation chart done Uh, the time was wrong, so I'm gonna get that done again and have it professionally done because for me, yeah. Um, because you mentioned the people don't know where they wanna live or, and for me where I am, it's, it's, I grew up here. However, I know that I always feel like I don't belong here. I actually feel like I don't belong in North America.

Mm-hmm.

6 months in South America. You know, I thought, oh, I'll go to Asia. Didn't like it there either. I love Japan though. I felt a lot of resonance with Japan. Interesting. I feel like I'm getting closer. So I feel having you on the show is not only gonna help me and get, but give other people insights and activations for them to go, oh, I remember I wanted to do that years ago, and now I'm gonna go and do it.

Well, another aspect of this that I really feel to talk about is, is that my approach is, is that is the baggage we bring along, that the, the, the, the, the, the neophyte looks at that I'll move to the perfect place and everything's wonderful and everything will turn out great. But we take our baggage with us and I really need to work on that. Because the place won't change if our attitude doesn't change. I mean, it can, it can get better or it can get worse. But, but we're not really dealing with what we really need to deal with, which is, which is the baggage and, and the, and the chart and the moving to the lines can, can accentuate that because it, it, because it takes us to a place where we're least, perhaps we're least able to, to handle because of the intensity. We go to, you know, we want— we're not expanding. Let's go back to Jupiter. We're not expanding. So we're going to go to the Jupiter line. But we're not expanding because we're really scared to expand. And now on this Jupiter line, we're confronted with our fears all the time. And so it really, it can magnify the situation rather than help it. So It's a little, it's a little tricky to, to really understand all of the aspects involved in the astrocartography. And I, how I got into it was, which you sort of had asked me before, I got into it, I knew about it, you know, 25+ years ago. But it was only early COVID that I had a client say to me they had gotten a reading. And then I looked at a website of a friend of mine who's an astrologer, and she was doing it, and I thought, oh, you know, I think I want to do that. So I started studying it, and because I was already doing astrology, it came fairly quickly. The astrology is the hardest part. I mean, seeing the lines is pretty easy, but you have to really understand astrology to understand the the, the, the, the, the how to interpret everything. And because I already had that, it, it came rather quickly. And I've now done, I don't know, 200, 300, 400 readings for people all over the world.

Yeah. No, and, um, I mean, I, I believe I was listening to you on a guest on another podcast, and the person brought up purpose.

Oh, yeah.

You guys, you guys were talking about that quite for a very long time. But you mentioned service. And then there's that little piece in the middle, the ego. Right? So when—

Yeah.

And I get it. So maybe would you wanna explain that a little bit? Sure.

Purpose isn't one of my favorite words. I, I know it's a really popular word right now. I think purpose—

I used it a lot.

Yeah, you know, I think I saw that. I think I saw something you said, purpose. So I'm not talking to you personally, but, but I feel that purpose comes from ego, that it's the ego that wants to know the purpose and, and, and that needs a purpose. And, and I like the word destiny better, karma, but destiny. There is a wind, you know, there is a wind in our sail, and that, and that is a, is a destiny or a flow. And there's things that are we're perhaps supposed to do, and we have natural abilities and, and areas that we're working on. I, I totally agree with that, but, but I don't call that purpose. Purpose, purpose— when people say, I want to know my purpose, they're talking from their ego. They're talking from, I need to know what I'm going to do because then I'm going to be useful, and then I'm going to be lovable, and, and because I'm not enough as I am. And that's where the purpose question comes from, and I don't really, I try to change that. I think that, that, that I don't think we necessarily— that there's maybe there's, you know, there may be things we're supposed to do, but I think we're given the ability to do or not do. We have talents, but that doesn't mean that we have to use our talents in these particular ways. And there may be other ways to, to, to grow, learning the same lessons, but not necessarily the same way. So destiny, I like better. There is a destiny. Perhaps there is a wind in our sail. There's karma. There is direction. There is strengths and weaknesses. But purpose— purpose is— purpose to me is a very sticky word that it's a little chest-puffy. The chest puffed out. And, and so that part of it I have a reaction to when people bring it up to me.

No, and, and I appreciate your perspective. It's just like when I had my dark night of the soul in 2017, when I found out, you know, that I could work with a medium and develop my skills and, and do all these readings, and then I became Reiki master, and it was like I was stacking all these things, and it's I was like, why? Because now I work with people that are doing the very same thing. And I'm like, why are you gaining more titles and certifications? Where is this coming from? And it, it's from here. It's— and when I found out I was an empath, oh, I was so special. Oh, but I have come full circle on that just through my own journey and my own way. And I never tell anybody that is wrong. There's a lot of spiritual narcissism in the world as well, which I don't appreciate. And there are a lot of people that are being scammed. Through that. So I would say the trust level is quite low, especially with what's going on in the world as well. So I, I just say there are all ways to the path. That's, um, or you could call altruism as well. I mean, that's really important. But, and omnism— I, I definitely don't talk about three things: religion, science, and politics Because you talk about the ego.

That's—

there's a lot of snags there. People are always looking for ways to be offended.

I had a client recently. It seems to me that purpose was one of the words she used. And so I said to her, your purpose is all the things that we have discussed today. That's your purpose, is to work on getting rid of those, your insecurities, your doubts, your whatever it is. Yeah, criticism, judging other people, whatever it is, that's, that's your purpose. You want a purpose?

Yeah.

Make that your purpose. But the purpose, the, the, the way they ask it is, is there's a, there's an ego, uh, an ego need in that. And so, uh, I, I like to communicate that.

Yeah. And I, I really appreciate that you brought that up cuz it's like a full circle moment. I love having epiphanies and aha moments. And when people say, well, what do you know? And I'm like, I know nothing. Yes. Like, what do you mean? Or when they say, what do you do? My new favorite one. Because I like being a little cheeky and throw it out there and see how people— I do whatever I want. It looks like that.

What?

What do you mean?

Yes. I call that retirement. It's— I say retirement doesn't mean you don't do anything, but you get to do what you want rather than what you need to do, what other people want you to do.

Yeah. I believe that was Angela Lansbury that said that in an interview, and I'm like, I love that. Yes. Because we always— we're human beings. I mean, we are spiritual beings having a human experience, We're not doings. We're beings. And we've been programmed to just title, go to school, go to college. I mean, I work with people that, you know, young people especially, they don't, they feel very lost. Um, there's a lot of mental health issues. Um, there's a lot of, um, you know, separation and fear and anxiety and all of that. On top of their parents saying, well, if you're gonna be an actor or you wanna be an artist, you're out of this house because you're supposed to be a doctor. That breaks my heart.

Oh yeah. I've had quite a few of those clients.

Mm.

You know, I was thinking when you talk about the, the difficulties for, um, for the young people, I, I think it's always been that way. I was just immediately went back to my childhood. My growing up when, you know, lost, you know, the lost generation of the '50s and '60s, you know, trying to find ourselves. I'm not sure that any generation has had that. Maybe before, but I think that's our own ego thinking that, oh, it's different. You know, I don't know that it's been any different, you know, that the growing up is I suppose there were times when we had very— we didn't have much freedom. And so you're, you know, you were married at 16 and, you know, you were an apprentice and it was a very regulated lifestyle. So in that way, we didn't have a lost generation. But since then, I think it's been difficult for everybody.

Yeah, well, I believe we're being shown all the things we've think we need and that we have doesn't work.

Absolutely.

That's why there's so much mental health. And, and, and people are realizing that this material, all these quick fixes, they're not working. They're not working. And, and I, and I think this is an exciting time because more people are reaching out, building community. Because really that's how it's done is you can't do it by yourself. It's—

well, actually, I, in my book, I said you can't do it alone, but yet you do it alone.

Yeah. Okay. So no, it's, it's a lot of people.

It's, it's, it's kind of confusing because we need community. And we need support of other people, but yet we're really, it's up to us to do, to take care of us and to do the growth that we need to do. And that has to be done alone, you know, uh, uh, you know, eventually even the—

You wanna talk more about that? Like going inside, like practicing every day?

Yeah, we have to go inside. We have to find our own truth. We, we have to, uh, even if we have the most, uh, a wonderful partner who will do everything for us, eventually they're going to say, you got to figure it out on your own. I can't, I can't tell you your answer, you know, whether you should, you know, quit the job or not quit the job. You don't like talking about the job and you don't like the boss, but what are you going to find that's better? And eventually we have to come to our own decisions. But we, but we learn from each other, the mirrors that we, that each one each of us are to each other teaches us and helps us and supports us to be able to do what we need to do. I think of the birth, that the birth mother, that she's, you know, like, like she's the one feeling the pain. We're feeling the emotional pain for the pain she's feeling, and everybody's supporting her, her team, but she's the one that's having the the baby go through her body. And so there's a, there's a, you know, we're alone and not alone. It's the, it's the confusion of life that we have to come to understand that the meek, the meek shall inherit the earth. What is he talking about? You know, the meek shall inherit the earth. Well, the humility that you were just mentioning, that is the meekness. And that's, that's the ones that is that is a sign on the right path. That is a road sign on the right path for us, is the humility. Be, be humble. Be, be, be meek. Be, uh, be open. And so listen, be a bridge. Yeah. Let go of the fear.

Flip it to love. It's a, it's, you got 2 choices. I choose to lead with my heart. That's, uh, I, I get it. I, I do. And I, I really appreciate, um, what you're saying about, you know, you growing up in the '50s and '60s. I mean, my mom was a ward of the government. I, I couldn't imagine what that's like, um, and lived in a group home. And there's just, you know, learning all these things, I'm just like, wow. Um, you know, and really intergenerational, uh, trauma and healing goes back 7. So when people say, why am I so angry? And I'm like, well then, what was your dad like? Was your mom like— what was your grandfather like? You can, you can be the investigator and find out where it is, and you can go back and heal it, and then you can say, no more, stops with me. I find that very, very empowering, and I also find it relaxing, I guess, in a way.

I think it's encouraging because it's a system that works, and it's— and it's— I feel that, that the— that I don't have to come up with the system. The system is there. I have to do my work, which is to let go of my stories.

Mm-hmm.

But, but that, um, uh, impermanence is already going on. Change will happen. I don't have to be responsible and angry because change won't happen. Change is happening. Is it at my pace?

Yeah.

Well, that's my problem.

Pretty much. Pretty much. It's never our timing. And get rid of the who, what, when, where, why, and how. Oh, it's exhausting. Um, so I always ask my guests these two questions. I believe I asked one of them already in, in the forum, but we're just going to switch gears a little bit. So, um, I always ask people, what is your— I call it the Moby Dick— what is your big whale of a dream? Now we all have dreams. Sometimes we've shelved them. Maybe it's already happening now. And it doesn't have to be something gigantic. It could be something very tiny. Like, joy is joy, right? So what is your big whale of a dream, according to you, in this lifetime that we all that are listening and watching can help you achieve or realize?

Well, I don't know if you can help me, but, but, uh, I would have to say that my, my dream had always been to write a book. And, uh, I'm, uh, it's done and, uh, it's gonna be available in, uh, in a few weeks.

So, well, that's exciting.

So I feel with that, I feel kind of done and I don't know what that means. I can kind of, I can kind of, you know, there's a, the, the, the fourth, the four stages of life. The fourth stage is you go live in the forest, and I'm living in the forest. And, uh, you, you, you, it's not that you go live in the forest and you, and you connect with the world from there. You go live in the forest and let go of everything in the world. So I'm contemplating, uh, that may be where I'm at. And that the book, and the book, you know, I mean, you can help me by buying the book and reading the book and loving it. But, but that's not really, that was never the goal. It isn't about people loving it. It isn't about people reading it. It's about the expression. And, and so I've achieved that. And I've almost achieved that. In fact, I have achieved it because it's written, whether it gets out or not. It isn't.

Congratulations.

Yeah. So really, you know, I mean, that is—

I will celebrate that with you.

Well, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yes. And, uh, I would say that that's it. I would say that I don't have many dreams beyond that. I, I, the dreams have been, uh, it's been a beautiful life and, and, uh, you know, I've got grandkids. I don't think great-grandkids, I need that. And, and, uh, maybe I'll get that, maybe I won't. The grandkids are preteen. So, you know, we got a while yet. So, so the life is perfect as it is. Each moment is enough. I don't need it to be any different than more.

And what's the title of the book?

The title of the book is Indra's Net.

Okay.

A, a seeker's guide to the human experience.

I love that. It, it sounds very, uh, intriguing. Something I would, will definitely read and some, uh, support as well. So I, I am also self-published. I, I, it took me 3 years, but now I'm working on another. It's, I really do love to write, so I appreciate that.

Yeah. 8 years on this.

Hmm.

Wow. Yeah, really. Wow. Incredible process.

And it is a journey.

It is a journey.

Oh, it is.

And interestingly enough, I was a book publisher for 10 years, so I thought there wouldn't be any surprises. But, uh, there was, uh, of course times have changed, but still, um, um, it was quite a process to, to get to this place.

Oh, we're so glad it's here. And, I, I believe I asked, what does magic mean to you? Is there a diff— you have a different answer?

I don't think I heard that from you. I don't remember it. What does magic mean to me?

Yeah.

Let's see. Magic is— magic is the grace of the moment.

You, you did say moments, so hey, here you are.

Moment. Each moment.

Yeah. No, I, I'm, and it's, if you live in gratitude, then that's something you experience all the time. I believe, like for me, when I just had a squirrel go across, I'm like, oh wow. Or I see a ladybug, I get, you know, I get excited about stuff like that. Whereas most people, Anyways, experience that. That, that's life right there.

So, yes, I think that's the magic. The magic is happening all the moments, but it's not that we're looking at it that way or defining it that way. I think that's the magic, is to be able to do that.

Yeah. And childlike state. I mean, I grew up, real quick and responsible. So now I'm, I'm living my second best half and childhood. Woo-hoo! Every day, you know, I wake up as a gift. I mean, gosh, man, if you're not sure what you're grateful for, start there. So do you have— speaking of gifts, do you have something you'd like to share with our audience that you'd like to give away or a contest or a promotion besides your book?

Absolutely. I offer to all of my all of the listeners on the— when I'm on a podcast, there's two free offers. The first one is I will send you your Vedic astrology chart. You need to email me a date, time, and place of birth, and I will send you back your Vedic astrology chart. It's not a free reading, but I will make a comment or two, and I'll help you to understand how to read it. And the second offer, which we haven't discussed, is the Enneagram of Personality, which I work with. And I will send you a test. There are 9 personality types. One of them is at your core. And there is a simple paragraph test that for many people will help them to know their Enneagram number. They're numbered 1 through 9. And so that's the beginning of the, of the how to work with the Enneagram is to figure out your number. Well, you could just read about it, but it's kind of becomes when you know your own number and your own story, it becomes really intriguing. So I have a test that takes 5 or 10 minutes to do that is also free. Free. If you email me at indrarinsler@gmail.com, I'll be happy to, to send either of those or both of them if you'd like to any listeners out there. And the, the website is indrarinsler.com, and I'm on Facebook at Indra Rinsler if anybody's interested in that.

Perfect. I'll have all the links for everybody and the email addresses and all that. So, and if you can't find it, just reach out to me. We won't leave you hanging. We'll make sure you get those gifts. I know I'm gonna take it. I, I, I'm curious. I'd love to know a little bit, and I'm most likely going to get a reading as well. Um, because I, I just, I, well, spirit's pushing me. I know I feel that. So that's why we're here today. It's like, okay, let's go. Here's your next level.

Spirit, my spirit, my best promoter.

Mm.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I say clients get sent. That's the way I am.

Yeah. I, I hear it all the time. People are like, I don't, I just felt called to be here, a book especially. Yeah. I'm not sure why. And I'm like, oh, yes, you do. But anyways, your soul, your spirit knows. And I, I believe I'm a life path 6. Is that the same as anagram or totally different? Okay. Funny. Now I have to do something else.

It can, it can be the same, but you don't seem like a 6 to me.

Oh, interesting.

Okay.

Well, this was so fascinating. And guys, if you really love this episode, please share and comment and do all those wonderful things for the community. Support Indra.

Thank you for joining me on Heart Led Soul Fed. I hope today's conversation nourished your spirit and reminded you of your power. If this episode resonated, please follow, rate, and review, and share it with someone who needs a little soul medicine today. And remember, your healing is not a destination. It's a homecoming. Keep listening to your heart. Until next time, stay heart-led and soul-fed.