COVID-19 in Federal Prison: Early Release Options

Welcome to the Federal Prison Podcast. My name is Chris Zookas, and I'm the Managing Director of the Zookas Consulting Group, a federal prison consultancy specializing in prison preparation, resolution of in-prison matters, and reentry success. We're here to help guide you on this journey, to answer your questions about federal prisons, simplify the process, and help you achieve our primary goal, which is to serve the least amount of time at the best federal prison with the earliest opportunity for release. You can find us online at prisoner-resource.com. You can also be reached via email at info@prisoner-resource.com and via telephone by calling 843-277-5239. We look forward to guiding you on this journey. Today I'd like to discuss the impact that COVID-19 has had on the federal prison population and the two forms of early release, which are direct-to-home confinement placement and seeking compassionate release. So let's start with the impact that COVID-19 has had on the federal prison population. Uh, to date, As of April 23rd, 2020, uh, there has been 620 federal inmates and 357 BOP staff who have confirmed positive test results for COVID-19. Uh, this spans 49 different BOP facilities and 16 RRCs, or Residential Reentry Centers, which are halfway houses. Uh, so far there have been 24 federal inmate deaths and 0 BOP staff deaths attributed to COVID-19. So this is a— this— I want to highlight that this is an evolving situation. Every day the numbers are getting higher. It's also important to note that not only are the numbers alarmingly high, but more— even more important than that, the numbers are almost certainly drastically underreported. You know, as with traditional American society, everyone is not being tested. So the number of positive COVID-19 cases, it's higher than what we're seeing here. But in the prison populations, even the federal prison system, though the federal prison system does seem to do a better job than many state systems, there are plenty of inmates who are not being tested yet and who need to be tested. So this data is a little— it's, it's underreporting the issue. Um, so as of today, there is a new, uh, top-ranking facility for inmate positives Um, FMC Fort Worth in Fort Worth, Texas is now reporting 131 inmate positives. That is a, an alarming jump, and it's probably due to one person coming down with COVID-19 and then the prison system realizing they need to test a lot of people. Um, so prior to mass testing there, so FMC Fort Worth has 131 inmate positives, uh, one staff positive, and one inmate death. USP Lompoc in Lompoc, California has 68 inmate positives, 29 staff positives, and 1 inmate death. FCI Terminal Island in San Pedro, California has 65 inmate positives, 5 staff positives, and 2 inmate deaths. FCI Elkton, which has been significantly in the news because the Attorney General's memorandum, uh, promoting the Bureau of Prisons to release inmates from there directly, is now reporting 51 inmate positives, 49 staff positives, and 6 inmate deaths. That's in Lisbon, Ohio. So when looking at this, FMC Fort Worth clearly has the most inmate positives at 131. In terms of staff positives, FCI Elkton in Lisbon, Ohio has 49, which places them at the, at the head of the heap. But you know, I think the most alarming thing, 'cause when you look at COVID-19, So, um, as I did— as I've done reporting for Prison Legal News and Criminal Legal News as their chief COVID-19 reporter, um, and both of those publications focus on American corrections, what I found is that, um, it is not uncommon for individuals to contract COVID-19 and have varying level of symptoms. So just because someone's symptomatic and has COVID-19 or has contracted coronavirus, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to die. It does not mean that they're going to have significant symptoms. Is certainly possible. And this is kind of where some of the, the data and the medical kind of discussions come into play, because inmates and, and those outside of prison who have— let's call them co-occurring disorders— they have underlying health conditions, particularly respiratory conditions. They're infirm or they're of older age, advanced age. COVID-19 and coronavirus seem to impact them at a more significant— or they have a more serious reaction to it than a younger inmate might or a younger just US adult might. So looking at inmate deaths, this is like, this is where I start to get concerned. Not, not start, but this is, this is the alarming part. So FCI Oakdale 1 in Oakdale, Louisiana has 7 inmate deaths. FCI Elkton has 6. FCI Butner Medium in Butner, North Carolina has 5. Uh, FCI Terminal Island in San Pedro, California has 2 inmate deaths. And then it tiers down to 1 inmate death at, at several facilities to include the Behavioral Systems Southwest in Phoenix, Arizona. So that's a halfway house. FCI Danbury in Danbury, Connecticut has 1. FMC Fort Worth in Fort Worth, Texas has 1. And USP Lompoc in Lompoc, California has 1. Um, I think it's important to kind of, uh, encapsulate this discussion by looking at these numbers first, not to alarm you because we all know that this is a big problem, uh, but to kind of focus on, uh, what's the real cost of this and why is it important to be considering an early release and how can you get an early release if you qualify. I think those are very important. There's a lot of misinformation out there. I'd like to try to clarify this from a statistical and data analysis kind of perspective and a Bureau of Prisons policy perspective too. When my firm does consulting, I— we very much come from a policy-oriented and legal-oriented perspective, because what I find is that when you take someone's opinion, and some opinions are good, some are bad, but when opinion is subjective, if we can come from a standpoint of hard data, regulations, policy, that's when you can start actually understanding issues and understanding how to make them work for you. I mean, I think that's drastically important. So, let's go into it. So, direct-to-home confinement, two forms of early release. Form 1 is direct-to-home confinement. Form 2 is compassionate release. When looking at direct-to-home confinement, there's a few things that people need to understand. So to start with, Attorney General Barr released two memorandums, one dated March 26th and one dated April 3rd. Prior to the COVID-19 outbreak, generally speaking, inmates could go to a halfway house. They were halfway house eligible for the last 12 months of their detention. Typically inmates received a FAR less time than that. Seeing 2 months, 3 months, even 6 months was fairly typical. Anything over 6 months, it wasn't as common as, as we might hope. With COVID-19 though, we're now seeing additional releases happening. So when you're looking at direct-to-home confinement placement, there's a few pieces you have to look at. So first of all, you have the Attorney General's memorandums. So the March 26th memorandum basically discusses transfers of inmate to home confinement where appropriate to decrease the risks to their health. The criteria that they really established, the Attorney General established here, includes the age and vulnerability of the inmate to COVID-19 in accordance with the CDC guidelines, the security level of facility currently holding the inmate with priority given to inmates residing in low and minimum security facilities. So at minimum security facilities, uh, that, that includes, uh, federal prison camps. It, you know, encapsulates federal prison camps. Uh, the another factor, the inmate's conduct in prison with inmates who have engaged in violent or gang-related activity in prison or have incurred a BOP violation within the last year do not receive priority treatment under the memorandum. They also include the inmate score under pattern. With inmates who have anything above a minimum score not receiving priority treatment under this memorandum. So P.A.T.T.E.R.N. is a kind of risk assessment scoring tool that the BOP developed and it's used in accordance with the First Step Act provisions for recidivism reduction programs. So basically this is a way of scoring inmates for risk, risk of recidivism, risk of, let's call it just bad conduct. Obviously, pattern has some flaws, but it's what we're currently working with. The next factor is whether the inmate has a demonstrated and verifiable reentry plan that will prevent recidivism and maximize public safety, including verification that the conditions under which the inmate would be confined upon release would present a lower risk of contracting COVID-19 than the inmate would face in his or her BOP facility. Basically, that means that there, The inmates need to have a verifiable release residence to go to. Homeless inmates are not going to be helped by this. It's only people who have secured actual, an actual residence to go to. That could be their own home. That could be a family member's home. The final condition that is listed here is the inmate's crime of conviction and assessment of the danger posed by the inmate to the community. Some offenses such as sex offenses will render an inmate ineligible for home detention. Other serious offenses should weigh more heavily against consideration for home detention. Um, so basically, if you want to encapsulate the first memorandum, it basically means that inmates who have less time remaining on their sentence, um, who are advanced age or have a higher likelihood of contracting COVID-19 due to health concerns, underlying health concerns inmates who have had clear institutional conduct, who score low on the pattern scoring or risk assessment scale, and in particular inmates at minimum security prisons. So those are federal prison camps and inmates at low security FCIs. So you have two kinds of FCIs. You have medium security federal correctional institutions and low security federal correctional institutions. The Attorney General has very much highlighted low security and minimum security. So I'm not yet seeing people, inmates at medium security or high security be released early, but that is absolutely something that our firm is looking into and we are actively interested in kind of pushing this. The problem is that if you limit the early releases just to such a small segment of the inmate population, it just— I mean, you're really throwing many, many, over 100,000 inmates to the wolves of COVID-19. And that's just— that's not ethical, and that's just not right. Um, turning to the second memorandum, the second memorandum from the Attorney General, uh, dated April 3rd, 2020, um, it enhanced the home detention possibilities. Uh, so those include, um, Okay, so as you know, we are experiencing significant levels of infection at several of our facilities, including FCI Oakdale, FCI Danbury, and FCI Elkton. Um, what the Attorney General has stated is that, uh, in fact, the exact language is immediately maximize appropriate transfers to home confinement of all appropriate inmates held at FCI Oakdale, FCI Danbury, FCI Elkton, and other similarly situated BOP facilities where COVID-19 is materially affecting operations. Um, and then it goes on with the same kind of discussions. Um, it's important to understand that before these two memorandums came out from Attorney General Barr, there was not a mechanism for this kind of release. You had compassionate release, and we'll get into that in a little bit, but you really didn't have the, the option or the ability for for the Bureau of Prisons didn't, to release inmates early under this kind of circumstance. So this is a significant departure, and it's an important one to highlight, especially for those who are at low security and medium— or sorry, low security and minimum security, particularly elderly inmates, inmates who have underlying health conditions that place them at greater risk for COVID-19, and also excluding violent offenders, sex offenders, terrorists, categories like that. So let's see, just pulling out the materials here. Okay, so a couple FAQ questions that we hear a lot in the Bureau of Prisons. Here's enough to actually put out some guidance on this. So one question is, can I submit an inmate's name for consideration? Uh, Bureau of Prisons answers that by saying submitting inmates— submitting an inmate's name is not necessary. BOP staff are able to run an established list of inmates who meet the guidance provided by the Attorney General. This process ensures that all eligible inmates who meet the criteria are reviewed and considered for movement to home confinement. Um, I, I think it's important to note that while yes, there are— the Bureau of Prisons is actively reviewing inmates, This does not mean that there aren't, um, steps that inmates can take in order to maximize their chances here. There are also going to be a very large number of gray area inmates, or people who fall in the chasm between clearly they should be released early under this policy provision, um, and then clearly they shouldn't. There's, there's that good gray area, um, and that is an area where a consultant can absolutely help you. So typically, um, it is not wise to hire a consultant until the inmate has already been denied. Um, but if an inmate has been denied or told that their pattern score is too high or whatever from their unit team, that's where a consultant can help because we can come in and we can actually rescore their pattern. Um, we can see if there are issues with the analysis. We can present a comprehensive and compelling case. Now if the Bureau of Prisons elects to move forward with it, I mean, they have the entire authority on this. So, uh, it's up to the unit team to make decisions. It's up to the warden to make decisions. Um, but reconsideration is absolutely a possibility. In fact, what the Bureau of Prisons, uh, states about this is that inmates who have an updated home situation should raise their issue with their case manager to see if the new setting makes them better suited to home confinement. Um, that's more oriented around home situations though, but inmates can absolutely request reconsideration under this, and we do help people do that. Um, now a few other elements here that you should be aware about— aware of. There is a quarantine requirement for inmates who are moved to home confinement. According to the Bureau of Prisons, in order to protect the public prior to transfer to home confinement, all inmates must be quarantined at an appropriate BOP facility for 14 days. So that's a Bureau of Prisons facility for 2 weeks. As the Bureau identifies potential priority candidates for home confinement, they will begin to start the quarantine process regardless of whether they have officially been approved for home confinement. This step should enable those inmates to move out of the facilities sooner upon identification and verification of a suitable living situation. Another question related to this that we have is about inmate transportation. So the Bureau of Prisons, in one of their FAQs, the question is, uh, can I provide transportation to the approved residence for an individual who's been approved for home confinement? Bureau of Prisons answers that by saying transportation from the institution to the approved residence may be provided by any approved visitor on the inmate's visitation list. This option is especially important as public transportation options may currently be limited in many areas due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Um, so that's kind of the scope of this. Um, according to Bureau of Prisons, as of— are giving us a date. Um, so the Bureau of Prisons has stated that they have released 1,440 inmates on home confinement to date as a result of these policy provisions. Um, so I believe that number is a bit outdated. Um, But that is since the March— the issuance of the March 26th memorandum from the Attorney General. We have received questions about are there going to be additional memorandums? No one knows yet, but my gut reaction is that we're going to be seeing more guidance on this, whether from the Attorney General's office or from the Bureau of Prisons. To date, the Bureau of Prisons has been very scattered in their approach. This has been a rapidly developing situation. There are not yet program statements out. There are not yet policy statements out. There are some limited memorandums that discuss this, um, but nothing comprehensive and nothing that's being instituted nationwide, um, outside of a few scattered, uh, memorandums. Okay, so let's now turn to compassionate release because this is the bulk of our discussion. This is where a consultant can very much improve your odds of being released early. So there's a brief history of compassionate release. So before the signing of the First Step Act, there was a process in place for compassionate release. This process was not favorable towards inmates. Frankly, many inmates died waiting for responses. It's just a— it was a dangerous, bad situation. The Bureau of Prisons mishandled it. Mishandled it incredibly badly. Um, so it's important to realize this. Um, prior to the First Step Act, the process was the inmate would request with their unit team, usually their case manager, a compassionate release and explain why. The case manager would put together a packet and send it to the medical director of the facility. Uh, the medical director would then, make a determination, uh, basically not even a determination. They would write a report and then they'd make a recommendation to the warden. If the warden denied it, that was it. There was no further steps of appeal. You could use an administrative remedy, so a grievance, but that was about it. If the warden approved it, it then went to central office where general counsel and the director would consider it. Um, from my understanding, at— if the at the director, at the central office level, if they were actually considering granting a compassionate release. There would be discussions with other law enforcement agencies within the Department of Justice to see if they consented, if they, they approve of it as well. They didn't have to approve of it, but the director of the Bureau of Prisons and general counsel would take heavy direction from them. If a person was actually approved by the Bureau of Prisons director, then the matter would be referred to the court. Uh, at— in court, then the sentencing judge make a determination. Um, the, the flaw here is that the process usually took so long, many inmates who did qualify would die before they would get— before a decision would be rendered. It was just— it was a very, very bad situation for all inmates involved. So moving forward, um, as of the signing of the First Step Act there were a few additional provisions added. The, the most significant one to pay attention to though is the 30-day limitation. So the new limitation is that from the date at which an inmate files their compassionate release request, the Bureau of Prisons has 30 days to make a determination. If they make a determination and it's an approval, then it goes to court, life's good. If they deny, even if it's outside or even if it's within the 30 days, Or if they fail to make a determination within 30 days, the inmate can go directly to their sentencing judge, and the authority is vested in the sentencing judge. They no longer need a referral from the Bureau of Prisons. Now, what has happened with COVID-19 is interesting, and let me pull up the language for you. Um, so when it comes to compassionate release petitions, Traditionally, it was that a person would need to be terminally ill, so dying within 18 months or around 18 months. So that would have to be a Bureau of Prisons doctor designation or projection of life longevity. The other element that was— or the other category that was typically used, was debilitated medical condition. So a debilitated medical condition was, uh, where an inmate was confined to a bed or to a chair for more than 50% of their waking hours. Now there's a new, uh, there, or it's not new, there, there's a provision that's been in there that's never been used before, but now it's being used because of COVID-19. So those are the extraordinary and compelling circumstances provision. Almost no one prior to COVID-19 receive a compassionate release based on this. That has drastically changed. This is now different. So what's going on is if a person is elderly, if they have underlying medical conditions that would place them at a greater risk of harm from COVID-19, then they have a, a very good opportunity here to seek a compassionate release. I mean, this cannot be understated. I think every and any inmate at a low security and at a minimum security federal prison camp should strongly consider a compassionate release petition. Obviously, if the Bureau of Prisons is going to refer them to direct-to-home confinement placement on their own initiative, that's the best option because it, A, doesn't cost you any money, and B, it's a faster and easier, more streamlined process. So if a person is denied um, this makes a lot of sense to seek a compassionate release. And I, I say that also because the provisions for the Home Detention Program are much more limited than compassionate release. Obviously, it's up to the sentencing judge, but that's something I was getting to now. So the process for seeking a compassionate release is much like it used to be: file with the institution, institution has 30 days file with the sentencing court. Sentencing court then gets to make a final determination on if they're going to grant it or not. If the sentencing court denies, inmate is denied, you can refile a reconsideration motion. I'm under the interpretation, I'm under the belief that you do not need to refile the Bureau of Prisons at that point. You can just go right back to your sentencing judge or your sentencing court if your judge is retired. If you are approved, then you are placed direct on home confinement because of the compassionate release element. Honestly, it's more of a— your term of imprisonment is transformed or modified into a term of supervised release. So at that point, you would just start the second part of your bifurcated sentence, imprisonment followed by supervised release. And for those of you who are not familiar with supervised release, it's very akin to parole, but you don't get out of prison early. It can also be thought of as post-incarceration probation. Okay, so let's see, um, what a consultant can do. So actually, before we get to that, uh, what are the factors courts are going to look at? Because the Bureau of Prisons' response doesn't matter nearly as much. The court's response is what matters. So courts are handling this at a very— this is a rapidly developing situation. Courts across the country are making diverse kinds of decisions, but there are some flavors that can be learned from all of these, from all of these moving parts. For example, courts seem to be more inclined to grant a compassionate release when the inmate is elderly, they're infirm, if they have an underlying medical condition that would place them at a greater risk for COVID-19 contraction, and in particular, not only contracting COVID-19, but having a severe reaction to it. Uh, courts are more likely to grant a compassionate release when an inmate is at a minimum or a low-security prison. Um, they are more likely to grant a compassionate release when the inmate has had clear conduct. I mean, those are— these are all important pieces of it. Of course, when they have a legitimate home plan, um, you know, when they have those type of elements buttoned up. But one of the distinguishing factors here that I've seen in the cases, in the case law, is that when the U.S. Attorney's Office opposes compassionate release, courts are much more likely to deny. So, and that, that largely goes to those factors we just discussed. So what security level the person's at, how much time they've already served, how much time they have remaining to serve, if they've been convicted of offenses that the U.S. Attorney's Office and Department of Justice just they really go after aggressively, and they don't like— they obviously don't like any crime, but when it comes to any kind of violence, firearm offenses, sex offenses, terrorist-related offenses, all of those are, are good indicators that the Bureau or the U.S. Attorney's Office is going to oppose. And the final factor here, which is kind of an interesting factor, is that the courts are more likely to grant a compassionate release due to COVID-19 when a direct connection can be made amongst the inmate, the facility, and COVID-19. So if there is a person at the facility who's been diagnosed with, or, you know, tested positive for COVID-19, courts are much more likely to grant. Um, and as we are currently seeing, the numbers of COVID-19-related infections in the Bureau of Prisons, it is, it is skyrocketing every single day. It goes higher and higher and higher. I mean, this is, it is an alarming situation to say the least. Sometimes the Bureau of Prisons seems to update their dashboard twice a day, certainly once a day, but it is, I mean, we're over 620, we're at 620 federal inmates and 357 BOP staff who've contracted it with 24 inmate deaths. I mean, this is going up all the time. So let's now get into how can a consultant help you? In terms of seeking an early release through the vehicle of compassionate release. So what my firm does, we draft compassionate release petitions for inmates. That includes both the Bureau of Prisons petition, and also we can also draft the actual petition to be filed in court. When it comes to the BOP petition, the process includes first a retainer agreement is fulfilled We then speak with family members to understand the inmate's underlying health conditions, uh, see what facility they're at. Um, we also want to understand their release plan. This is a fairly detailed document. You know, our objective here is to present the best case for the, our incarcerated client being a low risk of reoffense. Um, ideally having a, an easier to explain criminal history and, and institutional conduct as well. But this is about, this is about putting together an intelligent plan that it's the, it's a combination of not only the inmate's current situation and their reentry plan, you know, and their health concerns, but it's also come— we come from a very policy-oriented perspective. As I said earlier, I'm not a fan of guesswork. I'm not a fan of, you know, opinions are a good thing, they can be a good thing, but opinions are best when they are colored and they're guided and they're structured by hard data and by regulations or the case law. And I think that's important. So our firm develops effective, comprehensive, and compelling compassionate release petitions to which the inmate would then file with their warden to start the ball rolling. That also starts a 30-day time clock for the Bureau of Prisons to respond. The other side of this, though, concerns the, the court process. So for the court process, there's two ways that we go about this. So way one, which is the less expensive way, um, we can draft the actual petition for the inmate to file with their sentencing court. So in this circumstance, the inmate would do it all themselves. We would be the document preparers for them. Um, again, we are not attorneys. We are prison consultants, so we cannot represent inmates in court. Um, but we can assist with legal research needs such as this. In such a circumstance, we would draft the petition, give it to the inmate. Um, the inmate would have the option of filing immediately in court or waiting the 30 days. Frankly, if an inmate is, uh, proceeding pro se, so by themself without an attorney, Uh, they should probably wait the full 30 days so that they don't have to get over that hurdle in court. Uh, the other way that we address the compassionate release petitions is we'll draft the, we'll present a draft petition, which we can use with an attorney. So we have several attorneys that, that we know, that we like, that we trust. Um, then the structure here is we provide a referral to the attorney. You then have to retain the attorney. Um, directly, um, and then we can provide the attorney with the petitions that we draft for them to review, make any tweaks to, make any tweaks to that they might like to, and then file in court and represent you. Honestly, it's, it's more expensive to hire an attorney to represent you in these matters. It is also a very good idea. Courts, federal courts, generally seem to take inmate litigants who file pro se less seriously And they, they seem to view them with less credibility than they do those who are represented by counsel. So this is important. Um, okay, so let's get into financing or funding this, these types of activities. Um, every day I receive a significant number of phone calls and emails from clients or from prospective clients who want to hire us, who appreciate the risk of COVID-19. Who want to move forward, um, but the problem is that they just don't have the resources to move forward. I mean, this is a hard thing to be at, it's a hard place to be in, because there are people who have loved ones in prison, um, and from a meritorious perspective, they should get out of prison. You shouldn't have to hire someone to do this, but the sad state of affairs of the federal prison system is that you often need to. You need to put your best foot forward. Obviously an inmate can file these on their own, but we find that inmates tend to, and even frankly many attorneys as well, tend to not appreciate or understand the policy provisions and the nuances here. Um, so that's why we recommend hiring a consultant who knows what they're talking about. I know, and the way you evaluate a consultant, you know, if I was to hire a prison consultant, a federal prison consultant, I would want to see if the person has significant experience with the Federal Bureau of Prisons, whether either working with the Federal Bureau of Prisons or actually being an inmate in Federal Bureau of Prisons for a significant period of time. And for me, that means something north of 10 years. You know, you want someone who's not just experienced it, but someone who really understands it and who studied it. Another important factor that I think is important is What have they written about it? What materials do they have about it? You know, look for those social support pieces. Uh, for example, I am the author of the Federal Prison Handbook, uh, which is a manual for federal incarceration. It is currently the best-selling, um, such manual there is. There's a few, but this one seems to do the best. Um, frankly, we have— we're the only, uh, federal prison handbook that's distributed by Prison Legal News and Criminal Legal News. I think because of that quality assurance. And I won't get into all the awards the book has won or the copies sold or any of that. The other book that we have that is relevant here is the Directory of Federal Prisons, and that is— we released that about a month ago. So that is a detailed analysis of every federal prison system in the country to include not only basic directory information like the address and security level, but we even delve into the programs available at each facility. And my favorite part, through interviewing and surveying many federal prisoners, we were able to put together a section that I think of as prison politics. So what's the— do, for example, uh, can vulnerable populations walk each yard? Can they stay at each yard safely, such as sex offenders, informants, LGBT inmates? What's the level of prison politics? So do inmates have to join a gang, or what's called a car in prison, or can they remain independent? You know, what do people like and dislike about it? You know, I, I don't say those kind of hawk books. I, I say that to say that I've been in this industry a very long time. I understand it very well, and I have a proven track record of helping my clients with a diverse variety of, of issues and situations. Um, now two more things I, I think you should consider with a prison consultant. One is, um, educational credentials. So obviously, there is no degree on being a prison consultant and there is no licensing body. But I think it's important to look at educational credentials because they, they tend to provide a piece of that social, um, support or social proof, let's call it, that, that the person legitimate. So do they have a bachelor's degree? Do they have a relevant bachelor's degree? They have a relevant master's degree. Uh, for example, I've earned my Bachelor of Arts in Interdisciplinary Studies which was a combination of legal studies and business administration. I also earned my MBA, my master's in business administration, in leadership studies. And I'm currently in law school. So I've been doing this a very long time. I've worked with law firms. I've consulted on many, many, many cases. And I think the final piece too is the kind of, let's call it the newsproof or the media validation. So Have they been quoted in major media outlets? You know, have they been looked to as an expert? Uh, for example, in the last month I've done interviews with CNN, uh, The Guardian, um, The Telegraph, uh, Town Country. I mean, and, and over the course of my career, I mean, you can add, you know, all many of the larger names— Washington Post, USA Today, New York Times, Wall Street Journal. I mean, I think these are important things to consider when you're looking at a prison consultant. Um, but let's get down to funding because that is one of the— you know, a lot of the people who contact me, they, they already know they want to hire, but they have a hard time putting the money together. So down to brass tacks. So our firm charges $5,000 for a compassionate release petition. That includes the in-prison element, so the petition to be filed with the prison. It also includes the draft copy of the documents to be filed with your court. Um, this does not include any attorney time, um, or an agreement with an attorney. I will say that our $5,000— I will say that our— sorry, I will say that our $5,000 point, uh, is, uh, far, far, far less than what I'm hearing many attorneys, uh, actually billing. I mean, hearing the numbers like $11,000, $15,000, $20,000, it's not uncommon. You know, it's, it is what it is. Competent legal counsel is expensive. That's what it is. So a great benefit to actually having a consultant like our firm come on is that we can do a lot of the legwork and we can reduce those costs. And we can do so by bringing with us a policy expertise that few, few federal criminal defense attorneys have. I mean, I think that's important, the experience to know what to do, when to do it, what are the nuances of this? What do you do when problems occur? I mean, that's, that's essential. So the, what kind of getting back to the funding element of this. Um, so by billing $5,000, many of our clients do not have $5,000 to come up with to pay. Um, so. In the last few weeks, we've been trying to explore different opportunities. I think these are these different opportunities, and we're trying to figure out exactly how to do this because we want everyone who has a meritorious claim to be able to proceed with us. But honestly, you know, it's just with COVID-19, many people are out of work. Most people just don't have the kind of money just to throw out there to spend even on a legitimate cause such as this. So obviously our most, our preferred method of payment is a direct retainer where either through, you know, we take all payment methods, but a direct payment of $5,000. When that's not possible, we are also looking at payment plan options. Typically, we like to see it at least half down, and then we'll structure a payment plan with you. Over the next several months to be able to afford this so that, you know, we understand you need to eat. We understand that, you know, you want to get your loved one out of prison. We don't want to take advantage of anyone. We are not high pressure. We are not kind of aggressive business people. We just want to help people. We want to help people and we want to use our expertise to be able to help them. The final option that we are just now exploring, because it just To be frank, when you're offering a payment plan, and the data is there to be able to say this, the data is there to support this, when you offer payment plans, frankly, some people will not cover that. And we aren't the biggest fans of kind of aggressive collection tactics. I mean, it's, you know, the world's hard enough. We need to be kind to one another. So the third opportunity, the third Another avenue that we're starting to look at is helping our clients or directing our clients to pre-made loan solutions. We have no affiliation with these companies. For example, LendingTree seems to be one of the more prevalent ones so that our clients are able to go there. They can do what's called a soft credit pull, so it doesn't actually harm your credit, but it lets you know how much can you get, who are the various lenders you can go with, what the costs are. And I think that while taking on debt in these uncertain times is— it's a, it's a hard decision to make. But especially if your loved one's at a minimum security and they're being denied release, if they're at a low security and they're being denied release, if they're elderly or have underlying health conditions, if there are people who are in their area or in their facility who who have contracted COVID-19, whether staff or inmate, and they're being denied direct-to-home confinement placement. I think this is a worthwhile cause. I think, you know, I, I'm not going to sell fear to you. I refuse to do that. I'm not that kind of consultant. They're out there, but that is absolutely not me. But I think that this is a worthwhile cause if you're trying to get your loved one home. And, you know, I think it's about the discussion. So, you know, we do offer free initial consultations. We try to keep that somewhat limited to 15 or 30 minutes because I receive so many calls a day. Our other consultants receive so many calls a day. We just, we have to work for clients too. We have to get work done. But please feel free to reach out if you have any questions, if you'd like us to review and kind of talk, you know, do a broad overview of you know, would your loved one qualify? If they're— are they, are they likely to be granted relief or not? I mean, so you can figure out what to do before you make a hard decision. Uh, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. And please stay home and stay safe. Thanks for listening to the Zuckas Consulting Group's Federal Prison Podcast. If you're interested interested in learning more about federal prisons and how we can help you serve the least amount of time in the best federal prison with the earliest opportunity for release, please connect with us at prisonerresource.com. You can also email us at info@prisonerresource.com or call 843-277-5239. We look forward to helping you on this journey.