Alice Sanders on Connecting With Your Spouse

Listen, let's talk about relationships, y'all. Um, I'm in one, you're in one, all God's children are in some kind of relationship, but many of us are in a marriage relationship. And if we're not, we desire it, or we have had conflict in it and we need help to figure out how to enjoy the marriage that we're in, pour into the marriage that we're in, or prepare for the marriage that we desire. To be in. And so I have the privilege and pleasure this day of chatting with Miss Alice Sanders. So I have to tell you a little bit about how I came to discover her and how this interview came to be. Number one, she is a relationship coach, a communications expert who has over time discovered her passion and purpose in life in helping couples communicate better, to develop their marriages, to be intentional about developing healthy communication. And she does this in a variety of ways, and I'm sure we'll talk about that. But also, she is the author, the production person, the producer of The Love Journal, which is something that I had placed in my hand. So here are the two roads to Alice Sanders being on the podcast. First of all, she sent us a request to be on the podcast to talk about her expertise and to talk about encouragement for married people. And I saw that request, but y'all, we get a lot of requests. One of the reasons why Alice, um, her request jumped out at me is because before I got her request, I had the opportunity to have her love journal placed in my hands. By who, you might ask? Well, let's just say Miss Alice has some proud parents. Many of you know my dad is Dr. Tony Evans, and last year there was a ministry cruise that we were all on, and there were different points during that cruise where we set aside time to have meet and greets with those who were joining us for that adventure trip. Um, and at one point during that meet and greet, her parents came across, they introduced themselves to me, they put the love journal in my hands. And when I tell you that they wanted me to know that their daughter Alice was the most amazing person on the planet, that she was really good at what she did, that she had worked really hard to put this love journal together. They wanted me to check her out. I had signed copies. It was a whole thing. So when I saw Alice's request to be on the podcast, I immediately— I saw the love journal, I immediately thought, this is the same girl whose parents gave me this product. So, um, so it's my pleasure to get to dive in deeper. When I opened the love journal I thought this is so important. Um, couples need to talk. Um, and typically there is functional communication, you know, especially when you get into the ins and outs of the everyday and then don't add kids to the mix and scheduling. It's very easy for that communication to be only functional, for it to not be deep, for it to be only, um, tactical. What are we doing with our money? When are we moving into this house? Uh, you know, when are we going to sign up for this vacation? What are we going to do with these kids? It's very easy for people who are married to not be intentional about communication because life gets busy. And the ability to communicate, to communicate well, and in the middle of communication where there's conflict involved, to have healthy communication, to see the other person, to know what the questions are to ask, the expectations that you should have, how to share your expectation— expectation. Communication is a whole thing. When I got married, um, I had 14 bridesmaids and one of my bridesmaids at the time had been married for, gosh, probably 20 years. And when she was giving me advice, she just said one word, communicate, communicate, communicate. You have to keep communicating. My mother at many marriage events that we would hold at our church would say, You have to communicate. They can't read your mind. You have to tell them how you feel, tell them what you need, and tell them when they've met your needs and do a good job. You have to communicate. I know from my own experience being married for 22 years and from the wisdom that I received over time with my mom and the wisdom that that dear friend gave me, communication matters. And Alice has made this her life's work. Um, to help other couples communicate. So welcome, Alice, to the podcast today. It's really my joy to have you, and I look forward to continuing to get to know you. I'd like to start with that, getting to know you. Can you tell us a little bit about your marriage, your family, um, kind of what your positioning is and how, uh, who you are and how you got to this point to be a relationship coach?

Wow, that's a lot, Chrystal Hurst. So I'm gonna break it into pieces.

Yes.

Who I am in my family. So I am married to one man and I have two kids. My two kids are boys. I have a 7-year-old and a 3-year-old who lets everyone know that his birthday is coming up soon and he's going to be 4. So I have my two boys. We've been married. My husband and I have been married for almost 12 years. August will be our 12th anniversary. And I love my family. And I like to tell people I'm happily married. And I like to say that boldly and confidently, because I feel sometimes, sometimes we don't say that. And I feel like often people don't realize that there are happy and healthy marriages that still exist. And so I am happily married. I love my family. I love what my husband and I are building together. And that's a little bit about me and the family.

Well, let me pause and ask you this question. When you say you're happily married, what does happiness— what is that? Why are you happily married? What makes you happy in your marriage? What do you like about your family life, about your husband, about being married?

Sure. I always said that being married is like having a sleepover with your best friend. And so that's how I feel. I feel like me and my best friend are having sleepovers. Once the kids are asleep, guess what? It's movie time. Where's the movie? Where's the popcorn? Get the blanket. Let's catch up. Let's talk about what's going on. And so we have fun together. I feel that we have a good relationship where we are able to communicate, share the intimate things and the hard things. And we're growing. We're building something with one another. You know, we're able to watch each other grow through life. And all of those things have helped create a healthy relationship.

How long did y'all know each other before you got married?

Girl, our little story is funny because we met through my cousin. So my husband lived in Alabama, I lived in Florida, and we had mutual friends which happened to be my cousin. So I was going down to Alabama for a wedding and the sister who was not getting married, she was like, Alice, I've got someone for you to meet. But I was like, you know, I don't know. I don't know about these Alabama guys. I'm not sure. So she's like, no, I'm just going to let him come to the reception. So lo and behold, while we're at the reception, in walks this hottie. I was like, this man is very handsome. And she's like, that's my friend. That's my friend. So we talked briefly because he was headed to another job and we exchanged information through my cousin and we literally talked long distance for maybe 3 months and then we stopped for a full year. We had very little communication, maybe a happy birthday. Why did you stop? Because I said he was too needy. I felt like he was always popping in and out, you know, calling me all these pet names, saying that he wanted to meet up, etc. So that's why I stopped.

No, so you, you stopped because— I mean, I know I'm like taking you down a whole rabbit trail, but I just think that that's so interesting because Because a lot of women can't do that. Like, if I find a guy and he's a decent guy and I'm afraid I might not find another guy, we don't stop. And we'll have these feelings of, I'm not sure he's the right one, I'm not sure I want to waste my time, I don't want to waste his time, but, but we're afraid to draw a line. Because we don't want to miss an opportunity. So I want to ask you, what gave you the confidence to draw the line? And to not— a lot of women can do that. What is it about you, the way you're wired, the way you think about your life, that made you go, yeah, no?

You know, to be honest, I don't even know if I could take all that credit because I was young. I was like 22 maybe, so I was in no rush to be in a relationship. I wanted one, but it wasn't a rush. So I felt, hey, I can— I've got time, there's no worry. I was just getting out of grad school, so I didn't feel that pressure. But once we reconnected a year later and things started to get more serious, I would say that's when the fear started to set in. And the only reason I was able to continue is because I feel God really prepared me. Because I think— I don't think, I know that God, He knows how we're made. And so I remember even before my husband and I were officially together, like dating, I felt that God told me, He was like, "Changes are coming in your life and you're ready for it." And I didn't know what that meant. I was like, "Oh, maybe I'm about to get a new job. Oh, I'm about to move." I had no clue. Until maybe the first visit that my husband made to Florida after we started talking again. We were sitting on a chair at a park and he mentioned something about like, you know, maybe we should make this relationship a little more serious, you know, that type of thing. And I remember freaking out on the inside. I said, I'm not ready for this. I'm not ready for this. And that's when God brought back to my memory. He was like, no, I told you changes are coming and you're ready. And I was just like, oh my God.

So when y'all got started again, how did that get kicked back off?

He sent me a text at the top of the year, and later I found out that he did— back then he did like some purging of his phone, and so he was about to delete my number, and he was like, I'm gonna text her. If she responds, I won't delete her number. If she doesn't, goodbye. And so I responded. And that go around, it was different. I believe we matured over that year and it was different. So it was increments of 6 months. We just talked for 6 months and we became boyfriend and girlfriend. We're boyfriend and girlfriend for 6 months. At the end of that 6 months, he proposed. We were engaged for 6 months. At the end of that 6 months, we had our wedding.

Wow, that's great. So was he headed into ministry when you met him?

He was. He was already— he'd been a year.

You knew this? You knew you were going to be a pastor's wife?

Oh my goodness. So my husband, he wouldn't even say— he would not say now that he's a pastor. He would just be like, I work over the finances, you know. I am a minister who does finances for our church. And other people may call him the executive pastor, you know, have different titles, but he's like, I just do the finances.

Y'all are in leadership at church and people look to y'all for spiritual advisement, so call it what you want. Okay, so y'all have been married for 11 years and, um, you're a pastor's daughter who's married to a pastor, executive pastor, CFO. I love how you about being happy in marriage, because I think that marriage for many people is not happy. And, um, and when we say we're happy or we're not happy in marriage, like, what does that mean? And even what you said about having a sleepover, like, with your best friend, I think, you know, in my season of marriage, we have 5 kids. My youngest is 14, so we're about to enter high school with the last one. And you start thinking about what does life look like for us when there are no kids here? And you hear a lot of people end up into an empty nesting season and they don't know their spouse. They haven't cultivated their marriage. Um, they haven't been having fun. They haven't made room to stay friends with their spouse. And, um, there are times where I literally have to remind myself, like, we're the adults here. Like, we started this thing. And if we want to have a movie night and put the kids to bed, or our teenagers, meaning like, good night, we're staying up late and watching a movie y'all can't watch. Um, like, we get to do that. We get to order in food. We get to, you know, make a special meal. Like, we serve them Hamburger Helper and, you know, our steak from Saltgrass shows up. Like, we get to do that. So I think looking for opportunities to have a grown-up experience with your friend and to choose experiences when life would choose to squeeze them out. Like, you get to choose happiness. I am joining you on our podcast. I commented before we got going that you look so beautiful, and I'm coming in basically with my hair barely brushed into a ponytail and straight from a walk with my husband. But we, um, he walks all the time, and we just had a conversation last night about, um, him, us working out together in the morning. We've done it once before.

I love it.

Personal trainer. No, no, no, no, no, no. We've done it once before.

It's okay.

That's the beginning. I am okay doing working out. I need to work out early in the morning, and he's not an early morning person. But he looked at me last night and he said, you know, I know you're an early morning person. And we just had our anniversary, so we had some time away. And he said, we were talking about just our health and stuff. And I go walking and you do your thing. I do my thing, but maybe 3 times a week, let's walk together. So we came back from our walk together this morning. And I just realized on our walk together that just making the space, and it wasn't a long walk, it was like 20 minutes, but making the space to walk side by side together just was a door to have conversation. Ador to have conversation and to make a couple of jokes and talk about things that in the busyness of life we're not doing. And it was great. I was like, I went for a walk with my husband by the lake, you know, that's not too far from our house, and took a couple pictures because I was like, this is the stuff you do when you're dating, you know, that you forget to do or you can quickly stop doing when you get married and life gets busy. I'm curious to ask you this, um, What made you say, you know what, I like communications. I think communications is a skill we all need, but I'm going to hone in on helping other people who are married to have better marriages, to have better communication. What helped flip that switch on for you to, to not just be the person who has a happy marriage, but the person who wants to help other people have happy marriages too?

Sure, I have to comment on what you said a few minutes ago about the walks with your husband because Chrystal Hurst, my husband and I started doing that this year because I'm on a little health journey. My husband is, he is very health conscious. Okay, very healthy.

What you're trying to say without saying it is I got a fine man.

I do, but I mean, there are benefits, there are pros and cons, honey. Pros and cons. Like, just yesterday, I literally became angry because he had taken my chocolate-covered pretzels and hid them somewhere.

Because he's trying to help you get your health situation together.

I said, I don't need that type of help. When I need your help, I'll let you know. I will communicate it to you. But he has been helpful in other ways. And we've been doing walks also. And maybe 2 weeks ago— we only do them like once a week on Thursday, but they're like 30 to 40 minutes long. And last Thursday when I came home, my heart was just so full. I was like, I love these walks because like you said, it gives us a chance to reconnect It gives us a chance to share. Sometimes I admit, being the type of person that I am, I have some topics that I want to cover. So I had like a little piece of paper in my fanny pack that I was like, okay, so now I'd like to talk about this. You know, did I tell you about that? But it's great because even research has proven that when we communicate with our spouses approximately 20 minutes a day or so, you have a happier life, you have a happier relationship. Relationship. You feel better about that relationship. So for all those listening, go for a walk with your spouse. Yeah, it does wonders.

It's a very simple thing to do, and we weren't even like working out. We were just— right, it was a stroll. We went on a stroll. So it was fine. Okay, so how did you get here? Why did— why are you here in this space?

Yeah, that's such an interesting question because I feel that God has a journey for all of us And I was on my journey and didn't even realize it. So when my husband and I first got married, I was a special investigator retained by the Office of Personnel Management. Such a long title. I had a badge that looked like I was in the FBI. I drove a Dodge Charger. People thought I could like kick their butt in 30 seconds. I couldn't, but I sort of liked the idea that they were somewhat scared of like a little person. So I ended up, that job was going through a lot of, they were having a lot of problems, so they had layoffs and I was one of the people who got laid off. And so at first I was a little discouraged, but to be honest, I didn't really like the job. So I was like, okay, it's all right, God, what should I do now? And that's when I became a communications professor. After that, I was like, that's what I studied, that's what I love. I love to speak. To speak. So let's do that. And so with communications, being a professor, I was teaching all sorts of theories about interpersonal skills and, you know, how to create relationships and develop those relationships. And once we started working with the marriage ministry, I would just take some of my lessons and present it to the couples because I was like, we need to hear this. Communication is such a huge part of healthy relationships, of developing intimacy, vulnerability. I was like, I have to share this with others. And so I did. And I started to realize, man, I really, really like this. I'm very passionate about it. And shortly after, I was pregnant with my second son. And that's when our pastors were like, oh, we want you guys sort of relax a little bit, you know, focus on the family. We'll take a little break with the marriage ministry. And I remember I was like, I can't break from this. Like, this is too heavy on my heart to take a break. And that's when Stay Connected was born. That's when I was like, I want— I feel like I have to share this with others.

Yeah, that's the website that people can find you at, alwaysstayconnected.com. Um, and, you know, and on Instagram— I always say this at the end, but since you mentioned that, I want to make sure people know where to find you. The Official Love Journal is your Instagram handle. Um, I love how you said it was something you couldn't— you, you couldn't stop and didn't want to stop doing. Like, you know, I think people often ask the question, how do I know what my purpose is? How do I know when God is calling me to something? It's when, you know, to, to be super churchy, it's shut up in your bones. The fire.

Come on, girl.

It just is not— even when life says no, your soul says yes. Even when people say you don't have to do that, you're like, but I, but I want to do that. Like, it is, um, you are driven from the inside because it's something that God has put in you, birthed in you, um, that the Holy Spirit is leading you to continue doing, and I, and I love that. So talk a little bit about— let's start with the Love Journal. What is the Love Journal? How did that even come to be? What purpose does it serve?

The Love Journal is so precious to me. There's so much that I can share about it, but basically I describe it as a date night in a book. And so this little book is something that individuals can use in order to deepen intimacy and build their communication. And it started on my husband and I, our first wedding anniversary. So we've been married for a year. I guess I was 26 or something like that. And we were on a cruise in a tiny little room. We might even had bunk beds. Okay, so we're in this tiny room. But I remember I wanted to make that moment special. I was like, I want this to be memorable. And I'm so grateful for a husband who's willing to go along with my plans. So I pulled out this little red notebook, a flimsy red notebook like in middle school, you know, and I was like, okay, babe, this is what we're gonna do. Let's write down all of our memories from our first year of marriage. You know, what are the important memories? So we're going back and forth and I'm writing them down. And then I was like, okay, now what have you learned in this year? Like, you know, is there anything that you feel you've learned about marriage, about love? So he writes it down and I write mine down. And then at the end, being the sappy person that I am, I was like, okay, now write me a love letter.

And he's like, okay, now you're going too far.

I was like, write me a love note. He's like, what do you mean? I'm like, just, you know, like an affirmative little message, and I'll write you one. So he went along with it. He did. I wrote him one, we read it out loud. And in the end, I mean, I'm talking about it 11 years later. It was really a momentous moment in our relationship. And so we continued to do that every anniversary in the same little red notebook. And we do the same thing. And so now I can literally pull out that notebook and I have like 9 years worth of our memories, of our lessons learned, of love notes to one another. And it was during the pandemic, I want to say, maybe a little bit before, maybe around 2019, where I felt— and this was the same time when our pastors were like, you guys take a little break— I felt God was like, Alice, I want you to make your red notebook, I want you to make it official. Like, I want you to go in and I want you to create a journal for other couples to do the same thing that you and your husband did. Yeah, that's how it came about.

I find that, you know, in coaching in general— so whether you're talking about a career coach, a relationship coach, um, you know, a life skills, life goals coach— the, the thing is, people— you and I are question askers. So like you out of your own wiring, you know, came to your husband and you had all these ideas of these questions that you like, you do that. Right. And so what I've realized is most people, whether you're talking about coaching or even a licensed counseling situation, um, one of my friends, your friends, um, is a licensed counselor. She's been on the podcast many times and served as an encourager for the Sister Circle many times. Um, she said, my job is to ask the question that will prompt the person I'm presenting the question to, it will prompt them to give the answer because they have the answer. They're just not able to find their way to the answer. And so my gift, my training, my expertise is knowing the questions that will help them to get the answer. So, and while I know that some people don't have the answer and need, you know, mentoring and input, right? This idea that many of us have the answer, but we just can't get to it. Like we can't, you know, and so this idea that you have the gift of asking the questions or presenting the situation so that people can ask the question to get the right answers, you know, um, and that, that gift being in a book means other people get to benefit from what you've already learned to do. And they may want to have communication with their spouse, but they don't— they don't know how to get it started, or people are not natural communicators. And so, I want to talk, but I don't— we just sit there in silence, not having anything to say.

So, Chrystal Hurst, that is exactly— all the time people are like, I want to deepen intimacy. And when I say intimacy, I'm not just talking about sex. They're talking about, I want to deepen familiarity with my spouse. And so I let them know in the love journal, it's a guide. So you follow the promptings because often people say exactly what you said. I don't know what to ask. I'm like, turn to the back of the journal and there are activities, fun activities with questions that range from silly to sensual to vision casting. And these are all things that we need in our marriage, and it just gives you a nice outline. It takes the pressure, the pressure off of situations when you have some help.

Okay, so you use the word sensual, so let's stick a pin right there. Yes. Okay, so one of the—

ew, come on, Chrystal Hurst! Sister circle, let's go!

Okay, so I think— okay, so there was a, uh, uh, uh, in fact, I, I reached out to her. I'm gonna read— I'm gonna, I'm gonna hunt her down. There was this lady that years ago, and this may have been when I first got married, but years ago, I remember she would have this class at our church, and her and her husband had this marriage ministry, but their, their whole focus was sex, okay? Yeah, because her thing was we don't talk enough about sex. And so what we do say is don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. And so then when people get married, all they know is don't do it, this is bad. And so I think that one of the things that, you know, particularly Christians have to deal with, um, there's the, there's the other side where if you weren't a Christian, or even as a Christian, there is, um, um, the word escapes me. What's the word when you sleep around a lot? Promiscuity. When there is promiscuity in your past, there is a whole litany of things that you have to deal with that you bring into marriage. But let's just assume for a second that's not on the table. Just, just the, the sheer opportunity that you have— when you said marriage is an opportunity to have a slumber party forever with your best friend, Marriage is also the opportunity to enjoy sex, to explore each other physically. It is also the opportunity to, um, to enjoy without embarrassment something that God gave to us as a gift. But again, we may not feel comfortable talking about it. We may not know what the questions are to ask. We may not, um, you know, you just kind of do it, right? But you don't make it, you know, but you don't make it a point of discussion. So I love the fact that that's a part of the conversation. It's not just something to do, it's something to discuss, it's something to explore. It's something to explore. So do you think, like, in your experience, do most of the couples that you and— you and/or you and your husband talk to, um, is there— do you find that you run into people who are more free in that area or people who are more locked up?

It sort of depends, you know. Sometimes, like you mentioned, it depends on their past. Yeah, but for those who, like you mentioned, were maybe raised in the church, or, you know, they're used to the no, it's usually locked up. It's usually a matter of I want this but I'm embarrassed to say it. You know, I don't like this, but they like it, so I'm just gonna suck it up and take it. Okay, you know, it's various things like that. And so once again, it's that communication. It's making it easy. What I often suggest to those couples is I want them to do like a little check-in, you know, rather it's creating a romantic night where we are specifically talking about sex. Maybe even we're gonna have sex at the end of the night. So we're setting the atmosphere where it's romantic. We picked a date, Friday the 14th. That's our night. We're getting rid of the kids, putting them to bed early, whatever the case may be. And you're setting the stage. I like to say, use your 5 senses. What do you smell? What do you see? What do you hear? You know, what are you eating? What does it feel like? All of those things play a role in setting up the atmosphere. And then talk. You know, maybe you have an activity from the Love Journal, which my favorite is "Which Do You Prefer?" And so you can guess various things that are in this activity. You talk about it. You answer the question, but you don't just say, "Oh, I prefer this." There has to be a why, okay? We have to go into detail, allow the communication to take place, and then experience one another. There's no harm in that at all.

Listen, and you know, even, even in that, like, you know, we talk about how men and women are wired differently. And I, I know for years I've heard my dad, when he talks about marriage, he'll say, you know, for a woman Um, you know, foreplay begins in the kitchen doing dishes. And so all of these things lead up to this openness and availability in a physical way. And I love how the questions that you're saying, the conversation that we can have about intimacy is a, is a part of that. And that street runs two ways as well, because how can we truly enjoy each other? And this This could go for sex, but this is also go to what we want to do when we go out on a date or what we, where we want our next house to be built. How can we actually be on the same page if we don't make the space to have the conver— have the conversations? Hey there, this podcast is great. I hope you're enjoying my chat with Ms. Alice Sanders and getting some practical tips for making your marriage better, making it work, making it a marriage made in heaven. But I wanted to pause for just a second to give you an opportunity to experience another slice of heaven. I am hosting a retreat. It's called the Sister Circle Retreat. It'll be held this October 19th through the 22nd in Hume, California, right at the base of some mountains, surrounded by beautiful tall trees, right next to a lake. Because sometimes y'all, you just need to get away. What is this retreat about? About, you might ask? It is an opportunity for me to share not only a space that I have grown to love, but also what I've learned is important that every woman should love, and that is making time to get away. Now, sometimes you get away in your bathroom, sometimes you get away in your car, sometimes you get away just, you know, sitting at a park near your house. Sometimes though, you need to get on a plane or get in your car and be in a place where you can hear the rhythm of your own soul, hear God speak to you amidst the trees, make friends, new friends, reconnect with old friends, and really feel rise up in your soul and your mind what's important because nothing else is competing for your attention. We've done this retreat once before, and all I can tell you is that it's an experience. There's nothing like it, and it's also an experience you will never forget. So it's 2023. I'd love for you to come to Cali with me. And if you are interested in finding out more, all you have to do is go to thesistercircle.com/retreat. All right, now let's get back to talking about heaven in marriage. Um, so you did, you did the love journal, you started it then. What does this look like now? So you said you do this every anniversary, but In terms of the practical outworking of this in your marriage, do you and your husband have a monthly or a weekly date night? Do y'all, like, what are the rhythms that are in your marriage beyond the special anniversary, like, deep dive?

Sure.

What are the communication, um, you know, if you're crossing the river of marriage and, um, the things that keep you moving, like the river rocks that you step on, what are the river rocks that are in your marriage that keep you all moving, communicating, and connecting?

Sure. So I definitely would say things are seasonal. Okay, so I can share with you some of the things we've done and some of the things that we're doing now. There was a time period when my oldest was younger, he was like a toddler, and I think we only had him, so one kid. Something that we would do, you know, everyone talks about date nights, but we were so intentional about it. We did the kid swap with another couple. So we would take their kid for a night, and then they would take our kid for a night. And it usually wasn't sleepovers, but because we trusted them, I mean, we could have a long date, we would drop him off at 5 and not come back till midnight, you know, like, it was intentional time. And so it also was accountability for us, and for the other couple. So if they didn't reach out to me and give me a date, I would hit them up and be like, hey, you know, when's your date night this month? This is the date for ours. Like, it was accountability to spend intentional time. Now, something that I also realized for me personally, and everybody's different, but I would encourage this for most couples, is don't always go on group Dates, okay? Don't always do family outings and call it a date. That's not a date if your parents and your cousins and your sisters and nieces and nephews are all going out. That's not a date, okay? So try to have times where it's you and your spouse. And for some people, that's not easy. We know some individuals who, you know, we've been invited on anniversary trips before, because they're like, we don't really want to be alone, you know, we don't know what to do. Let's stick a pin in that.

Let's stick a pin in that.

Come on.

Because, because you know what, I actually— we have multiple friends like that where I used to actually be— I mean, I used to actually— so my husband is a loner, okay? So if he wants to go out with another couple, it's a, it's a It's a big deal. Okay, so, so, but we had friends, um, who would always go out, like you said, great anniversary trips. And because they were gonna do the anniversary thing, the friends got a wonderful trip out of it. And I was like, yeah, invite us. But it took me a while to realize— and, and again, this is not a blanket statement for everyone— but it took me a while to realize that they don't necessarily have a great time together. So the only way that they have a great time is if it's a party, and they need other people in the mix to actually enjoy their time away. And it had never occurred to me that that would have been a reason why people do that, that, you know, like, that they, um— and it also made me pause for just a second to say Why do I always want to have other people come with us, right? Like, what is that saying about what I am investing in the time away with my husband where I'm enjoying it, but just the two of us? And what am I willing to do to make this a good time, right?

It is checks and balances because I love a good party. What was it? Last year was my birthday. It was 2/22/2022. I've been talking about that birthday since I was 22 years old. So me and my husband threw a bash. We had a great time. Sure, that's fine. That's not what we're talking about, but it's checks and balances. If you are constantly with groups of people and it's not you and your spouse, periodically, that's something to look into because you need that alone time. That's once again how we increase our familiarity with them. I personally want my spouse to be able to say that he knows me better than anyone else. I want to be able to say that I know him better than anyone else, and that comes through spending time and communicating.

So let's, let's, let me add another pin right here. So somebody is listening to you and they're like, I mean, I married him at one point. I liked him, right? But it's been 5 years, 7 years, 10 years, 15 years, 30 years.

Yeah.

I could do with him or without him. Like for whatever the reason is, um, you know, some people over time do grow apart, whatever the reason is. And there's a lot of reasons why that can happen. Um, because as we get married as individuals, we continue to grow and develop, you know, we continue to, to become. Um, and sometimes I'll never forget, I heard a pastor say once when he was doing a vow renewal for someone, he said, God is the only person who can make sure that just like a key in a lock, how you fit together when you met and married He is the only one that knows that this person and that person are still the key in the lock 25 years down the road. He's the only one that knows what you need now and what you need later. And your job in marriage is to stick with this connection during the seasons where it seems like it doesn't fit. There will be seasons where, because of the weather, the lock just don't want to turn. There'll be seasons where you think, okay, do I need to remake another key? Because this one doesn't seem to slide in as easily. But God is the only one who knows who you need now and that that person will be who you need later. And during the ebbs and the flows of the season, you got to stay committed. Yeah, I, I— but there are those seasons where people are like, this key don't fit no more. Like, it's like we fit at one point, we don't connect anymore, we're not interested in the same things, um, they've gotten distracted, we you know, he gets on my nerves. I don't feel respected. She doesn't respect me. There, there's— that's real. So for the person who's listening right now who is like, I get what you're saying, but yeah, no, like, he's not, uh, right? I'm not in danger. He's not hurting me. He is not abusive. Um, I mean, there are guys who listen. I mean, she makes my dinner. You know, she makes sure I'm taken care of, she pays the bills. She doesn't excite me anymore. Uh, he doesn't sweep me off my feet anymore. You know, I'm getting to see him in the reality of every day, and now I'm interested in this, or I'm interested in this, or I've grown here and he or she has not grown. They've been okay to stay put. We are not on the same page. And I hear what you're saying, Alice, about staying connected, but we're no longer a fit. What do you say to that person?

There's so much, because that's such a— that, that is definitely a common situation. One thing I'd say is seek a mediator. If you really want this relationship to work, seek a mediator. Rather you're going to a therapist, a pastor, a counselor, some type of coach, seek a mediator, because outside eyes can always bring light to some areas that we don't notice. So that's one option. The other thing is, and this is something I ask couples when I'm counseling them in the beginning, I ask them, do you want this to work? And I think that's what everyone has to ask Do I want this to work? And if the answer is yes, and if it's an honest yes, then that now means that I need to put time and effort into changing it. And so if your answer is yes, the next step is putting time and effort to change it. And some things that we can do for that is when we start doing check-ins. I love a good check-in. A check-in is simply— it could be daily, or maybe it's once a week. That's usually more feasible. It could be while you're going for a walk, or maybe it's while you're laying in bed. And a check-in is simply a time to open up for communication. You're asking questions like, not just how was your day, it's more of an update. Like maybe, did anything funny happen to you this past week that you haven't shared with me? Maybe it's something a little bit more intense. Have I bothered you? You know, did I do something that upset you this past week? Maybe it's a question like, how can I help you this coming week? All right, you're starting to ask these questions that let your spouse know you're invested and that you love them. And once we start to establish our foundation again, the flower is going to start to bloom. I saw a description of a potted plant, and her example was about sex. So the flower was your sex life, but she was saying it blooms from the intimacy in the pot. And that's your relationship in general. So your relationship can be the flower, but it blooms from the foundation. Are we connecting? And we connect through questions. We connect through time. All right, so we're going to spend time deep with each other. Let's do something fun. Let's try something new. That has been proven to help relationships, both of you trying something new. We're going to go take a self-defense course. We're going to do couples yoga. We're going to go parasailing. I mean, for those who are very adventurous, Do something new. It could be simple, like we're going to put together a puzzle. I don't do puzzles, but they've got, what, 1,000 pieces? Okay, we're gonna do a puzzle. Like, do something and do it consistently, and things will change. One, because God will honor your efforts. That is always my prayer. God honor my efforts. Rather, that's in my relationship with parenting, with exercise. Lord, honor my efforts. And watch God move and turn things around.

Wow. Wow, that's so good. So I would love to know, like, practically— like, you kind of threw out some general examples right now— what are some of the things that you and your husband are doing to have fun together? To— I mean, you mentioned puzzles and you say you don't do puzzles, but like, what are some fun dates that you've been on recently? Some things you've tried, like right now or within the last few months or coming up? What are some things that are working for y'all or y'all are actually doing right now?

So as I mentioned to you all, I'm on a journey somewhat like you, Chrystal Hurst, trying to be a little bit healthier. And I realize that a lot of my celebrations and activities revolve around food.

Listen, because it's a good celebration. Food is a good celebration.

It is. I'm always like, let's try that new restaurant, you know, that's my date night. Let's order food in from so-and-so, you know, and I get genuinely happy and excited. Yes, this is—

and this is how you know it's a problem, because you're at the restaurant and I don't know if you do this, I do this. Listen, if it's good I get my little spoon, I'll be like, ooh, yes, you see the dance?

Yes, yes, it is a dance, it is smiles. I am happy with good food. Yes, but I'm changing. And with that, it's helpful because we're exploring new things. So for instance, for my birthday, we went to a place— I'm in Florida, so we went to a place called Abstract Orlando, shout out to them. Um, and it's like, what do they call it, it's resin art. And so I love a good charcuterie board, and so literally we painted charcuterie boards and we get to keep them and they're beautiful.

So did your husband— okay, your husband was good with the painting of the charcuterie board?

He thinks he's an artist. So my birthday, so, you know, he was like, okay, I'm doing this.

What do you want to do?

Right. So we've done a lot of artsy stuff. Even we experienced the potter's wheel, which I think that's just dope in general, like making bowls.

It's kind of sexy. It's kind of sexy.

It's only— what is that movie?

Is it Ghost?

Yeah, is it Ghost?

Demi Moore. I think that, that, that sexualized the potter's wheel for everybody forever.

You don't really get that experience. I think it's only sexy if they're sitting behind you. Like only one person could sit on the seat. So it's like, hey babe, you done? I'm not done yet. That way it wasn't sexy. It wasn't, but it was fun. It was an experience.

Yeah.

So we've done a lot of art stuff. And then we recently took a jiu-jitsu class together, which was really, that was really fun and tiring. And it was like also, um, what would you call it, like self-defense type stuff.

Yeah.

So we're trying new things, we're trying simple things.

That's great. Who is normally the person who comes up with the thing to do? Okay, how do you feel about being the fun— the cruise director, as one of my friends would say? Yeah, I mean, like, I hear a lot of women go, I just have to plan everything. I want him to plan it. Why do I have to plan everything?

So I have a few suggestions for that. I personally have accepted it because I'm sort of a stickler. I'm not going to lie. You know, some stuff I'm like, I don't want to do that. So I don't mind planning the things I want to do and he will happily tag along. So I'm happy with our situation. But what we have done, which I think is awesome, is my husband will keep a little list of things that I mentioned periodically that I want or that I want to experience. And then he's able to sort of pick and choose during those moments when he's feeling spontaneous or he wants to do some type of surprise. He has a nice go-to of things that I actually will enjoy and pull it out because we've had some times where he tried to do some surprises and they were sort of failures. So now you know that list helps. Yeah, girl, they didn't go well.

Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things is just accepting.

Like, accepting.

Maybe it's important to you because you're good at it, and if you wanted him to do it, he wouldn't do it the way you do it. And then you'd say, well, he's not doing it, our excursions aren't that fun. Well, it's important to you because you actually want to do it. You want to do it and you want to do it well at a certain level, and accepting his gifts and your gifts as a part of it. I want to make sure— go ahead, I'm sorry.

A little plug there. I would definitely say if someone has trouble, if they're like, you know, I don't like planning this all the time, which we do here. Then one, you need to communicate it like we've been talking about. Let them know, hey, on the next date, I would like you to plan it. And if you want, give them some suggestions. You know, maybe we could do— list a few things. Maybe we could do this. But what I would say is, when they plan it, you need to be A-okay with it. All right, so if they take you to a restaurant— yep. Oh, this again? Why'd you pick this? 'Oh, we gotta wait? You didn't make a reservation? Oh my good—' Like, if you want them to do it, let them have it.

Prepare your mind to enjoy whatever they do, because if you criticize the mess out of it, they won't do it again.

It will, it will end. And if—

and here's what I've learned: even if they don't do it right, your excitement and gratitude for it will mean that you'll get it again. And then you have a window of time to give them input for the next time. Yes, Chrystal Hurst. Yeah, but if you shut them down, you lost the battle, you lost the war, you lost the war.

Yeah. So I always— I do this myself, and I tell other ladies who might be like me to do it. Like, prepare your mind. Like, when my husband says, hey, you know, I want to do something, I'm not going to tell you what it is— which we don't do those surprises much anymore because— no, nope, he's learned. I don't want to go—

it's better You should just tell me in advance.

Yeah, just let me in on it and I'll help. It's okay. Yeah, but I will prepare myself where I'm like, hey, we're gonna have a good time no matter what it is. I'm grateful for his efforts. We're going to go in, have a great time, no arguing, no complaining. Like, I prep myself so that I'm ready.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to ask you this last question before we end because I know, and we've touched it a little bit, but I wanted get really didactic about it because one of the biggest issues in marriage, big umbrella for it, is just conflict. If someone is currently living in conflict with their spouse, there's an issue they can't resolve, there is a point of contention that they haven't been able to make peace about, um, they're feeling angst right now because they had an argument this morning before he left for work or she left for work, or it's been an ongoing discussion. It's just this ball of yuckiness. Yeah. And I know that that's a big question because it really depends on what we're talking about. But if you had to give, you know, 1, 2, or maybe 3 points of encouragement or wisdom for dealing with conflict, just broad-based, what takeaways would you say to that woman or man who has conflict in their marriage to ponder or consider? As they continue to stay married and hopefully want to deal with the conflict?

I love that because yes, conflict resolution is such a hot topic and I think it will forever be a hot topic. Okay, I don't think it will ever lose first place among relationships. So suggestions, the first thing that I like to suggest is context. Context. When are you bringing this up? Okay. Did your significant other just walk in the door from, from work and you're like, you know what, we need to talk. Okay, is it late at night when they're tired, they're half asleep, and it's bothering you so much and you're like, you know what, we need to talk. Context is timing. Context is the situation. What is happening? Are there distractions? Are the kids running around and you're looking at them like We need to talk. All of these are bad timing. All of this is bad timing. And the idea is select a time that is beneficial where both of you will be able to fully pay attention. All right, and I think sometimes we don't like to do that because that often means that I have to wait. All right, I'm upset right now. And I want you to know right now how upset I am. I don't want to wait. I want to tell you now. And that is no benefit to anybody. So context, something that I would suggest, and I often suggest, is if you have something that's really heavy on your heart, let your spouse know. Which sometimes if you use this disclaimer too much, they'll start to freak out. But let them know, hey, I would like to talk about something. Pick a date and time. Wednesday night, maybe after work, you know, I just want to chit-chat with you about some things that happened or about that particular incident. Give them a heads up because then they don't feel ambushed. They can start thinking about some things too about that incident, and then the two of you can come together prepared and ready to converse. So that's one context. That's good. That's good. Any thoughts, or you want me to keep going?

I got some more. Well, well, yes, I would love to hear another one or two. But as you were saying that, one of the things that's worked for my husband and I is we actually— so we use an app called Voxer. It's the same as, you know, sending each other voice messages or whatever. But when there's something that I need to say and he may need to process Um, I will give him a heads up by giving him my introduction. So then, hey, I know we're going to talk about this later tonight or tomorrow or whatever, but I just wanted to go ahead and let you know what I'm thinking. So by the time we've gotten to the conversation, he's had a chance. My husband is a processor. Yes. And if I say what I gotta say, my frustration will come because in that meeting, he'll say, well, let me think about it. I'm like, I've been waiting all day to talk to you about it. So yeah, I need you to have a response. So what's helped for me is to prime the pump with letting him know what I want to discuss and say, we can discuss it later, but I just want to go ahead and tell you what I'm thinking. And so whether it's a text or a voice message or using that app, that has been helpful. So then by the time we talk, he has had time to process. And I have satisfaction because I have an answer.

Or yes, I love that. That's the same thing as a disclaimer, because in relationships typically there's one person who's the processor where they can't just spit out an answer. They've got to take it all in. They've got to ponder it a little bit. So being considerate of your spouse really is what that, that's doing, and it's helping you reach conclusions. So we've got context, which also is a part of giving them time to prep. Another thing is discussing one topic at a time. We help our couples realize—

No, I want to go through my list of 71 things.

One topic at a time. One topic. And that means I'm not— oh gosh, this is so much. We don't want to just pour all of these complaints on the individual that we love. So we, one, need to check our motive. Is your motive to get revenge? Is your motive to make them feel bad? Is your motive to, you know, like, sometimes our motives can be really nasty. So let's check that motive. And then two, don't pour all of your complaints at once, because eventually the person receiving them, they're going to either deflate or they're going to fight back. And there's no resolution that comes from that. So select one topic, and while we're discussing that topic, don't allow it to go and veer into all these other, you know, well, that's because you did such and such last month, and then the child did this, and we— no, we are only talking about help me bathe the baby. That's it, nothing else. And we're going to come to a resolution about bathing the baby, and then we'll talk about last month when your mama said such and such. So keep it at one topic at a time. Don't, don't blend them because it gets messy and we can't resolve anything. We walk away angry and there's no resolution.

Okay, uh, one more. What's one more tip for conflict resolution before we end?

One more is listen to understand. And this is sort of hard because most of us, we're listening to defend ourselves. And most of the time, since we're listening to defend ourselves, we start to nitpick. That's not true. Nope, I didn't say that. No, I did not say that. I did not walk out the door before you said such-and-such because the baby walked in first and then I said fill in the blank. No, don't nitpick. When you find yourself focusing on the specifics, you're already losing the battle. Wow. So don't focus on those specifics. Listen for the heart. What is the emotion underneath all of this? Are they scared? Were they embarrassed? Was it hurt? You know, are they in pain? Like, what is the emotion underneath all of this? And let's talk to that. Babe, I'm so sorry. I did not mean to hurt your feelings like that. I want you to know that I love you. That was not my intention. And maybe if you did intend to hurt their feelings, apologize. The power of an apology, verbally saying, I apologize for the words I said. Leave it at that. Don't say, but you know, when you did such and such, it made me— no. I apologize for the pain I caused you. Please forgive me. Shut it down. That's it. Later. Okay, maybe tomorrow, because I want them to understand me. Maybe then, when we're both in a decent mood, I'll say, you know, the reason why I did it was because fill in the blank, but I, I apologize. You might apologize again because we don't want the explanation to overshadow the apology. So try to keep those separate.

I don't want the explanation to overshadow the apology. That's a whole situation right there. That's so good. Listen, You are so full of wisdom. It's very clear that we could go on and on and on and on, but I want to, um, make sure that we don't end our conversation without underscoring how anyone who's listening can find out more about you. Again, the website that you need to go to if you want to connect more with Alice Sanders is alwaysstayconnected.org, and there you're going to find, um, a hub for all the ways you can get connected with her on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram. But also, um, as we alluded to earlier, Alice offers relationship coaching for you and your spouse one-on-one. There are courses, there are even events. There's a marriage retreat coming up in August. We've got a few more spaces.

We keep it intimate, but we do have a few more spaces available.

Yeah, so that's in August. And the— and As you heard earlier, this is her passion. And along with her husband, they are passionate about marriage and their local church, but also passionate about helping you in your marriage. Should you need assistance, a little lift, some encouragement and support, some coaching to make things go well. And also don't forget about the Love Journal, which you can also grab by going to that website or on Amazon. If you're like, I want a better relationship with my spouse. If the answer to your question, the question is, um, if you want this to work, do you want this to work? And your answer is yes. Then like Alice said, then you have to be willing to do the work. And if you're like, well, I don't know, I don't know what to say to him. He doesn't know what to say to me, or she doesn't want to talk to me anymore. I feel like it's too late. You're still married. It's not too late. Pick up some tools that will help you to dig deeper. And if you were sick with anything else and you wanted to be well, you you would go to the doctor and find out what is the prescription. Well, marriage is no different. If it's not as healthy as you would like for it to be, then pick up some tools, pick up some prescriptions. And, um, Alice is here along with her husband in, in different capacities to, to provide help. Are there any closing thoughts that you would like to share as we wind up our time?

So one thing that I do want to share is just the idea that start with, start with dating, you know, start with building that love again. Be intentional about connecting, having fun. And if you need some assistance with that, I do have a free tool. Like, if you go to my Instagram and, you know, the little Linktree, uh, link, click on that and it will send you to— I think it's like a free guide to dating. Like it's a simple guide for date nights in your house. What can I do? Like a little checklist. What can I do to make our in-home date night special? So pick that up, use that as step number 1. Plan an in-home date night, give your spouse the date, the time, and the two of you just have fun remembering all of the things why you all came together in the first place. So get that tool, provide your email address so that we can stay connected. And that's my hope for everyone, that we'll stay connected in our relationships, we'll grow, build healthy and happy marriages.

That's so good. And we will make sure that if they don't get to your Instagram and don't get that Linktree, if you find yourself on the show notes for this episode, not only— we have links to Alice, her website, her social, but also a link to that free tool. Because listen, who doesn't need an idea for an at-home date night? Sometimes you just don't need to go out, you don't need to spend a ton of money, you just need to be home and enjoy each other's company. Alice, it has been a pleasure to connect with you. Thank you so much for availing yourself today, for availing your wisdom, and thank you for responding to the call of God on your life for your purpose and your passion, because supportive voices, encouraging voices, and practical help, real conversation, is so needed for marriages today. So God bless you in the work of your life. Thank you, Chrystal.

I appreciate that so much. Thank you so much, and thank you for what you do. You have clearly— you and your family have touched my family from afar. Didn't even know us, and this connection is just— this opportunity is everything. So thank you, thank you, and your family for what you guys do.