Books, Banter and Bedtime Foolery with Dr. Anita Phillips and Chrystal Evans Hurst

Hello, I am in a mood, so I'm going to just do what I do and just, um, talk about I don't know what. This lighting is horrible. Oh my gosh, it's right, right here it's not so bad, but like right here it's terrible. So I'm just here to have fun. Why not? I'm going to, um, take off my makeup while I'm talking to y'all and, uh, get ready for bed, even though I probably won't actually go to bed for another couple hours because I'm behind. There's some things I need to do, so I just thought I'd say hi. So here we go. Hi, good to see you. Hi Melanie. Thanks y'all, thanks for the compliments. Yeah, no, this has got to go. I have been miserable all day, um, in the best way. Like, I'm happy, you know, to have a decent picture. I'm not mad at the picture. I mean, you know, look at the— once you get the lighting right, but um Yeah, so let's see. This is why the— one of the most important reason— reasons that I don't like wearing makeup is because it's too much work to take all this stuff off. Ain't nobody got time for this at the end of the day. Don't nobody want to do all of this at the end of the day. And I have over the years accumulated way too many products. I remember looking at my mother's cabinet and thinking, why she got all that? What possibly do you need with all these jars and potions and creams? Let me tell you what, let me tell you what, you spend your time trying to figure out what is the cheapest, most economical, but also most healthy way for you to maintain supple skin, and, um, to get the stuff off. I am a moisture queen. I cannot get enough moisturizer. So this is my fave thing. I think I'm gonna have to stop buying it because it's too doggone expensive. Every time I buy this, I'm like, why am I buying this? But I love it. I love how it goes on my skin. I love how it feels. Let's see what else. And then I have a million juices and berries. What is this? Oil. What is this?

Oil.

What is this? Oil.

What is this?

Castor oil. I mean, I got argan oil, tea tree oil, castor oil. I mean, oil everywhere. What is this? Argan oil. Just oil, oil, all different flavors. Of course I've tried Mary Kay. Who hasn't tried Mary Kay? Bam! So, you know, um, then I have my Young Living. There's that. No, got my— I wouldn't be a black girl if I didn't have some Shea Moisture in the pantry. And, um, if y'all don't know about this chick Elvie, anything she makes is pure gold. But don't sleep, don't sleep on the basics. Bam! Hola, bolé! Don't sleep on the basics. And then y'all, I'm a health nut.

Joe, get out of my bed. Good night.

I love you. Good night. Good night. Are you sleeping out in the living room again?

Why are you doing that?

Cause what?

You have a bed. Well, get a pillow. Stop sleeping on my living room couch pillow.

He's lonely. All the boys left and he done found himself. He comes in here every night. I'm going to get into bed with you. No, you're not. I have a husband. Good night. Then he comes in, he's like, well, he's not in here yet, he's watching TV, I want to lay in here until— no, Joker, you too big, cuz then when your father comes to bed, I'm not going to get your tail up in the middle of the night. Go to bed. So now he's found himself sleeping on the couch every night. This is not no couch server situation. Go to bed. Anyway, all right. Let's see what else I got in here. You know, I wouldn't be a woman if I didn't have some Bath and Body Works. Um, and I wouldn't be a real woman if I didn't just have straight Shea. I mean, it's, it's stupid, and I'm one of those girls that stocks up. Okay, I stock up. So my favorite, my favorite, um, um, what do you call it, perfume, is this one right here. It's by Mary Kay. It's called Journey. I used to buy it from my mom's stash because my mom sold Mary Kay. But because they don't sell it anymore, when I finally found someone who had it It's a whole problem. I don't— I used to wonder why my mother would order pantyhose in bulk.

You want to know why?

Because she didn't want to keep going to the store. So you know what season of my life I'm in? I believe in bulk. Costco, why not get all the toilet paper you need? Go to Costco, why not get bananas? You can freeze them. You go to Costco, why not get water bottles? Because you'll use them eventually. I mean, so in theory, I should be able to keep these lashes. They supposedly last a long time, so I have a little container here. I'm gonna put these in this container, but they're never as good as they are the first time. I do have some retinol. What do I have here? Well, no, I have Roc. My mother wore this. My, my biggest issue is stuff irritates my eyes, you know, and the bottom line is just drink water, eat right, Get sleep. I don't even have problem skin. I just like trying stuff. Does anybody else like trying stuff? I mean, why do I have Moisture Surge, this version, and then why do I also have— what's the other version? Where is it?

Moisture Surge Intense.

I don't need both of them. Okay, what is happening? You can freeze, but I know I'm a bulk shopper, and then you shop from your own, um, pantry or your own freezer. I have a small— it's stupid, it's way time to clean it out, but you know, you don't finish it and then you like the next thing, and then I like to make my own potions. This is empty, it's finished, but I'm gonna save the jar. Y'all come rescue me from myself. Okay, here we go. So I have a friend who says that she just likes, she likes sitting and watching TV and peeling the glue off of the lashes. And I said, okay, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna wear these lashes over and over again. And then I started actually trying to peel the glue off the lashes, and I was like, this take too long.

Anita, you coming to talk to me? Can we talk?

If we— if you don't want to talk, say no. I will respect your wishes. But if you want to enjoy some fulu with me I'm just taking off my makeup for no reason.

I'm here for no reason. So you let me know.

All right, that's one lash.

The second one. You do what you gotta do, girl. Do what you gotta do. Yes, I have tried magnetic lashes and I like them. Um, the only thing I just said, I'm putting on these, this magnetic eye care, and what if it makes me go blind? But the hair, girl, please. Hey, I just— can I just do this right quick?

Go ahead, go ahead. Listen, the levels, the levels of craziness that my brain is enduring right now. Oh my gosh, but this is amazing.

Your whole life right now is amazing.

Pretty crazy. I— yeah. Yeah.

So for real, did you have to put a shirt on for real?

I did, actually. Like, nightgown, sweatshirt.

Listen.

I did.

So how much— are you about to be just road-dogging it for, like, weeks, or what's happening?

You know, I mean, not right this minute. I have stuff until, like, mid-October that we had, you know, all ready for the book. Hi, everybody. And, um, yeah, who knows, you know, it's every day, it's an email away, you know, a message. You never know what's going to come in the box.

And then you have enough— you have to have enough room in your schedule for that one email when it comes through to jump on the plane.

Listen, you make the room.

You know what I realized? I gotta go. I'm gonna do—

I'm gonna do this tomorrow.

I'm going to the store to buy the book because you know I had that advanced reader's copy— yes! —sitting on my nightstand right there and I've just been reading it enjoying it cuddling up at night and then today something clicked in me idiot Oprah has your book in her hand she got it all marked up have all the pages marked and I was like wait a minute I don't have a hardback oh yeah get yourself down look I'll get y'all I need to bring you one no no no no no no no no I need to go buy myself listen you don't have to I have to be a part of the crew that participates in this New York Times bestseller. Can I—

I'm gonna prophesy, see what the Lord might be doing. You know I can't prophesy.

You know I don't come from—

Oh right, because y'all Baptist folks. I'm gonna get you filled with the Holy Ghost. The evidence is speaking in tongues.

Let me tell you two things having a Dr. Anita friend is not good for. Number one, If you don't want to be therapized, don't have a doctor, meet a friend. Number 2, if you don't want to be anointed with oil and speak in tongues, don't find any attractive. I'm gonna stay in my evangelical conservative camp, leave me alone.

Listen, do what you gotta do, do what you gotta do. I'm here for you, I'm here for you. What's going on with you trying to clean these lashes?

Can we just get new lashes? Listen, why would Why we saving lashes? Because I was— do you not save them?

I don't, I, I don't. I mean, I, I've been known to leave them laying on the bathroom counter for a couple of days, but I don't really have any plans to renew that.

I'm so confused. I got, I got makeup artists telling me, girl, don't throw those away, those are good lashes. And then, then you over here talking about why would you do that?

Tossing them lashes. Listen, first of all, I'm not good with makeup. And I don't— if I get one lash on, I'm good. But that second lash is never right. So I don't generally try to do it myself. And then every time I get my makeup done, they put lashes on me. So what I'm going to save old lashes when the new makeup artist comes with new lashes? I mean, that's what we pay you for.

You paying you to put the lashes on me. I'm just confused. Listen, I have somebody else like, save them.

How many— I mean, now, I'm not— are we talking about like mink lashes? Like y'all plucked hairs out of a mink? And made the lashes?

This is what I have in my drawer right here. How much those cost?

See, that say faux mink. That don't say mink.

Is real mink a thing? Like, regular people can buy real mink?

I think so, but what I'm saying is, if them— if those lashes cost less—

honey, I walked in the Ulta and picked them up off the bottom shelf.

Okay, they going in the trash if they cost less than the box they in. Then we gonna go ahead and put it—

I'm done.

Now I got some lashes recently, let me see if I find them, from a makeup artist in New York. I think I might have took them, I might not have them here. And she like, those are real lashes, like they came in a special box. I have to find those, and those are nice, so I held on to those. But I mean, they real nice, I'll find them for you. They're custom made, named after women in the Bible. I got the Ruth lash, the Esther lash. The Mary Lash. My lashes, I just want to be holy. My lashes are holy.

The reason why I have too much stuff— I mean, I'm looking at my medicine cabinet, right? My whole situation. The reason why I have too much stuff, I don't know what the heck I'm doing, so I'm always trying something to figure out what I'm supposed to be. I mean, this is my basket of makeup. This is it right here. My back—

I got mine in Ziploc bags. No explanation for that either. Keep them divided.

You don't have— but then you don't have a bag to travel with, like a, like a small clear something like this?

I know I will admit to having 3 Ziploc bags in a Target bag that I have been laying in my carry-on suitcase for the last week and a half. I'm not gonna lie, it's very—

at least she double-packed it. Yes.

Yeah, because I got in there, something was leaking a little bit, I couldn't figure out what it was, so I just put it in the double bag. And we put it out there and we hit the streets. I'm not organized at all.

It's terrible. Okay, DJ is in here. I see you, J_Ivory. You're the one who told me to keep the lashes, and you are like the makeup delegate.

Leave her. Don't listen to me. Don't listen to me. But I'm just saying, when the makeup artist comes, she brings lashes.

He or she brings lashes.

So why are we— that's what they're here for. Let them do their magic.

You know, let them do it. How are you feeling?

Oh, I found them. These are the— oh, Kamar. Kamar A Unique. She's a makeup artist in New York City, and she has her own line. This is called— hold on— the Angel Eyes Kit right there. And in here I have— oh, they falling out. But oh, see, that says Ruth. Oh, Anna. Oh, Anna's in here. And Mary. These lashes are nice. Now, these lashes you can reuse. You want to reuse. I'm trying to turn the thing around so you can see them.

That's beyond my pay grade right there.

Those are nice.

What's the black thing on the— what's that? This is glue eyeliner.

So you just rub that on there and then they gonna stick on. So I've worn the Ruth lashes. I wore the Ruth lashes on the Today Show. Now they look huge, but I was wearing these on the Today Show interview and on my face they didn't look like— I was nervous.

Do you even know how much these cost? Do we know what we're talking about here?

Not, but I will find out for you.

But now you can keep these for real. How the rich get richer. I'm over here with my faux mink, talking about let me go to the bottom shelf.

See, this is why for these support, when we buy low quality, then we just keep throwing them away.

But that's an investment. Oh my gosh. Okay, so I've been looking in the drawers. I, it's a, I need to, it's a, it's a declutter. I have a, I have a problem, so I'm I'm looking for these.

Okay, got it. So, uh, the woman who made these lashes— now I'm just giving— I'm gonna give y'all—

yeah, now we need to—

now we need to look. There she go, @KamaraAUnique. Kamara Unique. I might be saying it wrong, but she actually did— she actually did my makeup for my Today Show interview in New York. With an A in the middle. Kamara, K-A-M-A-R-A, and then A unique.

Okay, so DJ said yes, you should keep the ones I give you because they're expensive.

Okay, they're expensive. We gonna— then we have an investment to work with. But I mean, every lash out here—

yeah, it's not— it's not one of these things ain't like the other, right? Okay, but how do you feel? Somebody said kingdom. Y'all can't bring the kingdom into the lashes. Okay, how do you feel? This is what I want to know. I want to know— you have given birth to this book baby. I feel a lot of— well, you're still in launch week, but you've gotten over— the baby cries. It might still be attached at the umbilical cord, but it is born.

It is born. I feel a lot of joy. I feel relieved that the book is actually like— so many people are saying that it's blessing them because, you know, it's those many of those middle of the nights when you're just like, this is a terrible idea, and how do I get out of this?

And this book is awful. Terrible idea.

And so it feels so, so good for people to be getting the message that I was trying to transmit from God to them without me messing it up in the middle. I'm so grateful for that.

Yeah. So— And I mean, also, Oprah helped.

Did you see Oprah holding my book like—

Girl, she held it. She held it like it was blessing her. She held it up and she said, I don't want to talk about this in secret. I'm going to shout it from the mountaintops. Y'all need to go. Okay, so is this going to be a book club book? Do we need to be prepared?

That— I— that we just have to stay tuned and see what's going on.

Let me, let me go ahead and cross over again. I declare and decree that we shall see The rising of the garden within across the country, across many nations, and the people unsaved and saved. Yeah, not only come to know about the soil within, but they will know who gave the soil in the first place. This is not only a tool to healing, it is a tool to life ever after, like eternal healing.

That's what I'm talking about. Come on, see, sons and daughters shall prophesy. Come on, daughter. I know, I'm practicing.

Come on, but it's the truth.

It is my hope. That is my hope. That is my hope. And you know, you know that, that this presentation, this view of who God is, of who Jesus is. Yeah, this Jesus is good. He's not dangerous and out here just trying to kill folks. This is love, and it has to start there. So I'm excited. I'm excited for people to have emotional wellness. I'm excited for people to not have to fight off their emotions and think that they're the opposite of faith. I'm excited for people to use their faith for more productive things than to beat their emotions down. That's, that's not—

yeah. Okay, can I ask you an honest question? You know I'm gonna ask you a question. Sure. And you can reserve the right not to.

I do, I do. I have a boundary in my hand. I will drop it if I have to.

Okay, so wait, I didn't know this. Saurar, what? Oh, Delta. Okay. Okay, so to me, this doesn't have to always be true, but many times before something great releases in my life, you know, there's a little something, there's a little hump. Have you had a hump or has this been a free? Oh no, there was nothing free about this. And I don't mean the hump writing, I'm talking about like No, no, no, the rest of your life burning down.

Yes, there was— that's what you mean, the ring of fire. The ring of fire, that's what I mean. It was hot and high, but we thank Jesus the fourth man got in the fire with me. But, um, okay, no, it was, it was the— I wrote this book during— I think I said this in the acknowledgments, that as life would have it, this book was written during probably the most turbulent season of my life. I was in more emotional pain in a concentrated way in the time that I was writing this book that sometimes I was crying and laughing because I'm like, God, really? This is what we're doing? This is what we're doing on the book about emotional well-being? We're just going to— yeah, just put me in the frying pan completely. It was very hard. It was very hard. Family challenges, relationship challenges, kids moving, tumor on my parathyroid which took a year to get out, and that thing threw off every every emotion I had, so it made every emotion that was painful more intense. And then I had never had surgery before, so I was terrified of that. It was sitting on my vocal cord.

Of course it was.

Of course it was. And it was— and this surgeon who took it out, Johns Hopkins University, wrote— literally wrote the textbook on how to do this surgery. When he saw it, all he could say was, it's huge. I'm like, that's, that's What you got, Mr. Academic? It's huge. That was all he could say. It's just huge. And it was sitting right on my vocal cord. Um, yeah, ciao, ring of fire. But I am grateful. I am grateful. And I am grateful for, um, particularly the, the depression that the tumor netted. It was the hardest thing I've ever experienced. And I I know people who have depression. I hear them talk about it. I've counseled them. I've empathized with them. But until you are in that darkness, good Lord. Yeah. And then to know it was chemical, like to know that when the tumor went out, it would probably leave, and it did. And then think about people for whom a piece can't just be cut out to cure it. And so thank you, God, for letting me know more the pain of people that I love and that I want to minister to. But man alive, yeah, it was no joke. It was no joke. But you've written some books, so you know, as soon as you pick a topic, the topic cometh.

Listen, let me tell you something.

Let me tell you what happened.

Let me, let me go ahead and put myself on the couch real quick. I've had some good excuses. I've had great excuses. It's reasonable. My mom died in 2019. COVID happened in 2020. My husband had major surgery in '21, another major, major surgery in '22, and here we are in '23. But you know, when you really don't want to do something or you can't do it— can't, sometimes you can't do it— but any and any and every reasonable excuse is a great mask for what you actually don't feel capable of doing.

And sometimes that's okay. I mean, you don't need the mask part, but like, I haven't made a podcast episode in about 6 months. I know, and I recorded one on Monday morning, and if I can manage to get it— get a little bit of editing done, I can try to get it out here. But what I realized, I was just empty. I just didn't have it. I just didn't have it. With all the things that I was going through in my personal life, the physical stuff. And then I just ran out of gas. And so it was like, we're trying to get this book finished. The Bible study and the workbook, we pushed that date later because I was trying to get the workbook out. And I just got empty. And it's OK to stop something. Hello? It really is. It's OK to quit. I should write a book about quitting. Let's quit. Because there's this thing I learned, so yeah, I gotta preach a little. So there's this thing I learned when I was studying gardens and trees that some trees do, it's called fruit dropping. That if the tree senses that the soil does not have the nutrients and water that it needs to bring the harvest to fruition that it's working on, it'll just stop, start dropping fruit off its branches. Mid-development. And when enough have dropped so that what is left can be sustained and brought to fullness, then it'll start growing them again. Fruit drop. The soil is indeed the heart, as the Bible says it is. We can reach a place where we do not have the emotional capacity to sustain and grow and bring to full development all the fruit that we're working on. And sometimes you got to pause and just drop some stuff.

But how do I know the difference? That's what I want to know. How do I know the difference between fruit dropping or pruning or— and powering through? Because, you know, I'm a power through.

I know, but powering through is so dangerous when we make it a lifestyle because we just were so far out of touch with our needs. And this is— when I say our, I mean our. Like, I know this. I, I have been a power through person. We get— in order to do it, we have to kind of disconnect from our bodies because our bodies are telling us to slow down. We have to disconnect from certain feelings, and that's also a disconnection from the body, and that's not healthy. And so we stop getting our needs met, and we power through. We get the thing done. We don't feel the joy, the exhilaration that we thought we would because we're so empty when we get there. So we power through to the next thing, and now we're having this joyless life. And sometimes, for me, there gets a little codependency can get in there because I feel like I have to take care of, and if I don't do it, it won't get done. And sometimes I just got to the point I was like, well, I guess it's not gonna get done then, because I'm like, test drive what it would be like to stop. Sometimes the world is going— the world will find a way to move on.

No, no, that's the, that's the truth though, you know.

The world will definitely move because if that bus, if that bus hit somebody tomorrow, they gonna get somebody to take your job. They're gonna replace you. That is correct. Move on.

They might replace you with 3 people because you was doing too much working didn't say I can't do all that.

So I say test drive, test drive the fruit dropping. You can pick it back up, you can pick it back up, but lay it down and see what happens and find out, is it just this— there's too much internal noise for me to be still and that's why I really want to push through, or there's too much other stuff I don't want to deal with, pain I don't want to touch, so I just keep pushing through because adrenaline is its own drug. Say that again. Adrenaline is its own drug. And so we push through, we push through, we push through, and until we sit still long enough to find out what's actually happening within us, we may get a lot of things done. But to quote a book that I just recently read that I think is pretty good, A Powerful Life Is Not Conquered, it's cultivated. Time. And if we would take the garden pace, there's seasons for different things, and we don't have the whole thing harvesting all at once. There's this area over here, there's that area over there, then we let the soil rest over there, and we figure, "Oh, this thing is going to take a season to get done, a year to get done," but we want it to be done in a month, a week, 2 days, 6 months, we're going to produce everything. Gardens don't do that. We just time, time, time, there's never enough time, and with all our rushing, we're still only right here.

What have you waited for? You may not be harvesting. Jesus. God. What you doing? May not be dropping things. Just throw those lashes and other stuff out.

Go on. What have you—

can you think of something that you have waited on that you're harvesting now or that you're still waiting on that you are planning to harvest later? It's not now. Like, you know, it's not a part of this current.

I mean, this book was the harvest that I waited on. When I first started mental health ministry in 20— like, to really go out and do this in 2017, I had 3 ideas. I could write a book, I could start a podcast, or I could go out and just speak and teach about mental health and illness in the churches. And I chose option 3 because I knew if I said, let me write a book first before I start doing any of this work, I'd spend the next few years in the house writing a book that nobody was going to read because I hadn't been outside for anybody to know who I was. So I didn't seem like a good idea. And then the podcast, I wasn't sure how to do that, and I felt like it was similar to the book, um, in terms of the time it would take before I actually got to people. And so I chose to just go out and start speaking because that's what I had in my hand. I could do that right now, that day. Um, and so that meant that in 2017, I chose the speaking. I didn't make a first podcast episode till January 2020. And then the book, I got the book deal in '21 and started writing it and just finished it earlier this year and it's just now coming out. So that ended up being 2023. So in 2017, I set out to do this, but the podcast didn't come to fruition until 2020, the book till 2023. And knowing— and previously, what'd you say?

I mean, but you know what, storm, ah, but it was—

but it felt late. And I had to work through that feeling of lateness and let that go, because when 2017 came and I got the mandate to start this ministry work, um, the Lord used Bishop Jakes and he was like, go, you need to go. That was the big word, go. No instructions. So I had those 3 ideas and I decided for once in my life I wasn't going to try to do everything at once and do none of it well, that I would lean hard into one thing and then move from there. And so I chose to just speak, and that was tough. Because I like to do all the things at once. But I was like, I'm gonna just do one and put my full weight on it. That was something Bishop said— how will you know what you can achieve if you don't put your full weight on it? So I said, I'm gonna choose one thing and put my full weight on it. And I went out speaking.

Does your full weight scare you?

Not anymore. It used to. Did it? Was scary then. Why? Because, you know, when you don't put your full weight on it, you have an excuse or a reason for why it didn't go well. Because when we put our full weight on it, I really gave it everything I got. But when we didn't, then it's like, well, I couldn't put everything into it. I had to do this, I had to do that, I had these 3 things. And so, you know, if I could have given it a little bit more— and so we set ourselves up with space for— have an excuse for the failure, which explains the failure, which doesn't preclude me from trying again, but also tries to protect me from the shame of not doing well. And so I decided I'm going to put my full weight on it because, I mean, it was 6 years ago, I was 44, there were some things I wanted to accomplish by 45, and then I'm 50 in less than a month. And so I said, we're just going to do the speaking thing, that's it. And God sent me provision immediately. I was, um, this is in October of '17, And my, you know, Celeste, Celeste, um, I've been friends since high school, and she had been on a retreat, a women's retreat with my mom, because she travels with her sometimes when she ministers. She used to travel with her, now she travels with me. And, um, she had gone and had the chance to talk about being a sex abuse survivor, and she wanted to do it more, but she also wanted to use her other gifts. And so she called me and said, you know, I've been praying, asking God to open the door for me to use my administrative gifts for his glory. I'm very— I'm gifted in this area, I want to use it for ministry. I said, well, funny you should say that because I'm going to just go out and start trying to speak about mental health at churches, but I'm not good administratively. So do you want to, like, administrate the tour for me? And I'll just— and she goes, yeah, okay. And here we are. But it started out with us driving a car, a rental car, with our Vistaprint folders, you know, that we made, and our little PowerPoint, and church basements with 50 people in them sometimes, and 100 people in another room, and We just set out to talk to anybody who would listen. Just one thing, all my weight. And that's why I say I'm not scared anymore, because I found out it was a good idea. It's a good idea.

It's needed. Do you think that the past seasons where you were doing multiple things at once was good in those seasons, or now that you've done your weight on one thing? Are you like, I wish I would have done that sooner?

Hmm, there were necessary— there was some necessity. Younger, younger children, you know, different ministry demands. There was some necessity to be spread thinner than I would like to have been. But I think there was also definitely some distractions that I brought in to stay distracted from my own internal noise. And that's a really hard thing to find, but I think we peel it back just one thing at a time, you know. And something else that Sarah told me this, and I love her because she's, she's my little sister, but I call her my big little sister because she also has so much wisdom herself. That's correct. And, um, I was like, you know, wanting to take a break on the podcast, feeling kind of overwhelmed, and I'm just like, but if I stop, then like What if people basically forget about it? Like, I will have to start from scratch with everything. And she was like, what are you talking about?

Like, I love that so much. I do too.

I was like, what are you talking about? This is the gift that God's given you. When you go lay down, they'll be here when you get back.

He said, what are you talking about?

We can feel like we have— that we are maintaining all of this.

You know, that's the problem that is going on, the problem.

And that— but we don't realize that that, that is a form of codependency, that I am responsible for this, I must do it, I must save, rescue, cover, protect, handle, and if I don't do it, it will all collapse. And it's just not true.

So what does that mean? You're codependent on what?

It's not the word— I think the phrase codependency is not a good phrase for it. But it is a desperation to meet a need for a form of connection that we all desire and need. And when we don't get enough of it, particularly when we're kids, particularly when we're young, we can be kind of perpetually hungry for that connection all the time. And so I don't— because I think codependency is the wrong word. I think it is an unmet need a lot of times from childhood for connection and belonging that we didn't get met then, and we just continue to run after now. And some of us got it met by people pleasing and connecting, and some of us got it met by being the hero, the good kid, the responsible one. And so we stay in that role. Yes, me and you both. And yeah, that was a hard thing to shake loose. Like, you know what? This person might— things might fall down if I stop holding them up. But I got to stop because I got to let God pick them up. Or I got to give other people a chance to scramble and figure out how to stand on their own too. And then have the grace and the love and the trust in God that that person will be— they'll get there. This thing will get there. Without me. But it's tough. It was tough.

I ain't saying it was easy. What we doing for our birthday, girl?

I was just talking to my offspring, um, because, you know, they live— they live in, uh, Chicago and New York, about coming. Let me rephrase.

What we doing for our birthday with our children, with our family? And what are we doing for our birthday? Ah.

I got to nail a plan down. I got to— it has— it's been slipping through my fingers with all this stuff going on. And I'm a little nervous that I'm going to let it get away from me, because 50 is a big year. And God has been so— you know, I told you about my list that I wrote when I was 45 of what I'd like to see in my life by 50. And God is just— and Oprah holding my book was not on the list, but glory. Now unto him who is able. Up in this area. Yeah, he up here in this area. And it would be doing well, but man, yeah. And so I do— stay on me because just like I try to stay on you, I do want to make sure that I don't let it slip by. Um, but I am feeling a lot of contentment that God is bringing so many things into fruition that were the desires of my heart, and I'm leaning into what it feels like to be in this joy moment, because after having been in pain for so long, I know its absence is noted. The absence of that pain and this joy present is notable. So I'm trying not to miss a moment of that, though.

Well, you cute for it to be this late at night. Your hair is still doing something.

We love a microlink. We love a track.

Your hair is a part of that.

It's part of my mystique, part of your brand.

If you don't, if you don't, if you don't hit the stage and turn your head like this and it just don't come over like this, we're not gonna know what to do.

You don't know if Jesus is present or not. It's all— we watch this one right here. Oh my gosh, I can't handle all that hair you got, girl. You holding weighty glory. That's the weight of glory.

This is just called— it's out of control. It's— don't— I can't talk about hair. It's a whole—

hair is her glory. That's what the Bible says. You have weighty glory. I have micro-link glory, but you have a weight of natural glory, girl.

I don't— I don't know. I can't even talk about it. It's just— I literally— I literally I don't want to think about it. I don't want to think about it. I don't want to play with it. I don't want to, but then if I do it, I'm like, oh, it actually looks good. I'm cute. But I can't, I can't. That's not a part of my— Cut it off. I know, but then my head is too big for all that. I can't do that. Do you have this nice, like nice size? For me, I have to pay attention to where I'm standing in the picture lineup. Like, I need to be— I need to be like, if you're standing next to me right here, I need to step back just like this, because if I'm right here, it'll be out of alignment. So if you have short hair, you gotta— you don't have to, you don't have to. I would prefer to have the perfect size head. Jada Pinkett Smith, she got the right— oh, you— I lost you. Where'd you go? Did your phone die? Lord Jesus, come back. Y'all understand what I'm saying, Ashley, and you know I'm right. Y'all know I'm right. I'm thinking her phone died. Did her phone die?

Uh, I'm gonna give her a second to come back.

Let's see. Oh, there she is.

Hold on. There we go.

Sorry, I don't know what I touched because you made me laugh.

It's true, it's true. I, I don't, I don't, I don't— yeah, it's okay. I'm not— I can't complain. I have hair on my head. It's not nearly as thick as what it looks But I know how to make it have some volume. My hair is thick. It's not. It's not. If you see my sister's hair, that's thick hair.

I don't know how you deal with that either. I don't know how either one of y'all do it. Once my hair starts touching my ear, my natural hair, my actual that grow on my head, it's got to be cut. Now this side is probably about— I don't know, maybe like right here, my natural, my actual hair. The rest of this is just clipped. We just clipped. They put those links in there. I gotta figure something out.

I gotta figure something out because I can't, I can't.

If I didn't have to do anything in front of a camera, I'd be fine. I'd be totally fine.

Listen, no, I feel you on that. I had those, those crochet— I had the crochet locs all summer. Oh, good Lord, those blessed my life. I had the, the locs crocheted in. You didn't see me this summer with the braids?

I did. Oh no, that was lovely. I didn't see you in person, right?

Because I know, because I was at the beach all summer, but those things were wonderful. I mean, just wake up and go. But they don't look good on camera or video. I didn't look— not on me. I don't feel like they look as good because they show too much forehead, and I have this like widow's peak thing that goes happen, and it's not a— it's not— yeah, let's see how it goes back like that, and it looks strange. Look, I'm showing my whole track up here and everything on the camera. Only with you, only with you. But, uh, but Oprah held my book, so whatever. I got tracks.

What? Ever. You could have been there bald and would nobody care. Look at you making your statement. You, you there with us making your statement.

I feel you. I cut off all my hair one time. I'll text you a picture. And my head shape was like my face all the way down. And then I put a scarf on and tried to go out of town before, um, anybody really noticed it because I just wanted to do it. I'll send you a picture. It looked decent. It looked good. My head shape was good, but my nose and my face, it didn't match that part.

Oh, see, you understand.

I do. It all lays out.

It does have to match. Okay, this is what I need to know.

Okay.

And then I'm gonna let you get some sleep. Are you home or you still out?

Um, I'm actually at Celeste's. I'm in Dallas with her. Okay.

Yeah, tell her I said hi to me. But, um, I just need to know, are we being good right now? Or are we just enjoying life right now, as far as the plate is concerned? I'm being really good.

I'm so proud. But I think I just like the stress— with the stress off— Yeah. —of, like, really the book actually, like, being in the real world, and then, like, people saying, I read it, and wow, it's good. I got a lot less hungry. You know, those stress hormones will drive you to the refrigerator in an unruly way. And so I've lost like 20 pounds this summer. Oh, that's great.

Yeah, I'm back. I'm in a conviction zone right now. The Lord was like, legit, like, this is just something. He seriously— I know, I'm here.

Get it together, get it together. The Lord was like, stop it, stop, stop, just stop, just stop. You do have those moments. Like, I had a couple years ago, I got into like my highest weight ever not pregnant, and I stepped on the scale and was like, okay, what we gonna do? We either gonna— we're gonna close the mouth and say, or no, we're just gonna embrace it and just go ahead and get thickety thick, triple thick, or we're gonna do something. This is our only options right now. Change your identity around it and just be like, this is gonna be the new super thick milkshake Anita, or we're gonna go get it together. But it's no in between.

There's no in between. It has been just do what you want to do. I mean, you know, like I said, I've had a lot of reasons. People dying, COVID, hospitals, all these reasons. Yeah. And I literally looked at my husband a couple of years ago and I said, I think I'm done. I think I'm done playing with the scale. I think I'm going to be fat and happy and call it a day. I'm not— I don't want to— I don't want to think about it. OK. And I've been fine. I'm totally fine. But also the Lord just said stop.

Well, you can't ignore that because you don't know what illness or something or whatever he might be trying to block. And weight doesn't necessarily indicate unhealth, but we all know our bodies. That's correct. And but when God rolls up on us, we— yeah, we—

that's what happened. Take it down. That said, because God is God of grace and mercy, I still want to go.

You still want to go?

I still, whenever we do our little marathon situation, want it to be good. Oh, I'm just letting you know that. Just letting you know that.

Sounds like a plan to me. Yeah, yeah.

All right, go ahead and get it on.

Tie up a bun. I'm gonna probably just lay down and look at the wall and just be like, wow.

You know what, I got— I'm gonna tell you this last thing. So I got a new mattress, girl.

Oh, did you get the Sleep Number?

No, I didn't. I got it, I got it, I got a Stearns and Foster, but I got— but the medium was too hard, and then the soft might be too soft because every night when I get into bed, I get lost.

Just sink down into the whole thing like a cartoon just closed up around you, right?

My husband's like, I can't find you.

Was that the plan? Leave me alone, I'm sleepy. You guys didn't hear that. Nobody heard that. Nobody heard.

All right, I love you. I love you too. I'm gonna stop reading my advanced copy and go get my hardback tomorrow.

It's been sold out of many Barnes Noble, so now if you get there and it's gone, I want you to get online, tell everybody to order. Yeah, just order Amazon.

Somebody literally said on YouTube, oh, Chrystal, thank you so much for introducing— because I, in the beginning of our interview, I said, if you don't know who Dr. Anita is, you've been under a rock. And a couple of people have been—

I was like, well, I've been under a rock.

So if you didn't know, if you didn't already know, well, now you know. Glory, glory, go get it, The Garden Within. Thank you. Get to know Dr. Anita, and eventually her podcast will come back.

And I will be all fresh and energetic and it'll be wonderful and it won't strip me and leave me empty and dead because that's not the will of God.

And in the meantime, there's back—

there are back episodes and y'all ain't did what them episodes told you to do, so go on, go on back there and apply the original information and catch back up with me. It'll be good. All right, let us know how the hair comes out.

I know it's just gonna be on my head. That's, that's all, that's the only goal, just keep it on the head. That's all I got. I love you very much. I love you too. So excited for you, and watching is fun.

Thank you. We love you, friend. See ya.

All right, bye. All right, y'all, hope you had fun. That was fun. I done washed my face, I done toned up, I've moisturized, I've done a double moisture. I'm gonna twist this this up. So I don't even know, I don't even know what this is supposed to do, but I'm twisting it up. And then, um, you know, that's all she wrote. That's all she wrote. If you didn't get her book, go get it. It's The Garden Within. You can buy it online. You can go to Barnes Noble. Um, wash face, get some good sleep, make sure you get in a good mattress. Love y'all. Talk to you later. And yes, I know, I know, I will leave this one up. Okay. I know I like to take them down.

I will leave this one up for y'all.

All right. Peace out. Bye.