Faith Eury Cho on Finding Friendship with God

What does it mean to have a friendship with God? Okay, you know, you gotta pray, you gotta read your Bible, you wanna go to church, all these things to do, check, check, check. But what if Jesus just wants to be your friend? What does it look like to invite and cultivate the presence of God in your life? What does it look like to, at the point where you feel the most desperate, the most depressed, the most overwhelmed, to know even there that the power of God can exist? Well, today I'm joined by Faith Yury Cho, who is so fun, so fun to talk to, so so real. And I love her love for God, but what I love more in today's episode is her willingness to keep it real and tell you what it's looked like for her to cultivate her friendship with Jesus. Because listen, He loved us first. We love Him because He loved us first. So what makes us think that even today, even now, He wouldn't be interested in building relationship? I love it, and I can't wait to talk about it. Here we go with Faith Yuri Cho. Okay, y'all, so every now and again I meet someone, and as soon as I meet them, I'm like, where have you been my whole life? Faith Yuri Cho is one of those friends. We recently had the opportunity to meet in person on the set of Better Together. Um, that is a show on TBN. It's like a talk show for women of faith. If you've never checked it out, you totally should. But we were, um, sharing together, um, during a week, and she's just She's just a girl next door. You just need to know. She just— you just need to know her. But not only is she fun, not only is she full of personality, but she also believes in deep friendship with God and all things building your faith. And so I'm glad to have Miss Faith Yeri Cho joining me on the podcast today. Welcome, Faith.

I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Now listen, you know, you live a kind of wild life, chick. You got 4 kids. You got 4 kids, you're co-leading at your church with your husband, you're young church planners. You, I know, um, highly value your faith, but also because of just your background and coming to Jesus for yourself. And it's just very clear, um, not just because you're in the ministry but also just personally, um, how passionate you are for, um, clearing the path for other people to, to know God. And so before we get into just you know, kind of where you are today. I'd love for people to just get to know you a little bit. Like I had the chance to do that. Can you just talk about how you ended up here? And here's what's so great about it. When I kind of sort of asked you this question in person, right? It was, it was like we only have 5 minutes to get to know each other. Like, I got to, I got to get connected to you while we get our makeup done in between the sets, over lunch, before we get on, you know, get in this car and go home. And I really did feel like in your, you know, your quick elevator pitchy way, you were like, let me tell you where I came from, let me tell you how I got here. So yeah, I'd love for people just to get the background, like, why are you even here?

Yeah, yeah, elevator pitchy way. That's right. I, I knew the assignment, I knew the, the time constraints, and I just got to get her done. Um, yeah, it's— I'm so glad to be here. And basically the short end of it was I wasn't born into a Christian home. I was born in South Korea, moved to Los Angeles when I was 3, but basically I was just in pursuit of God. I wanted to know if there was a God, if he liked me, if he, um, if he knew me. Um, so I started praying on my own to a God that I did not know at an early age. Um, basically I even went, um, I watched a gospel film at a hotel during a family vacation, and I asked my mother, who is Who's that man? And she said, that's Jesus. And I said, he looks like a really nice man. And I even went to the library and asked the librarian, do you have any books on Jesus? Um, and this is when I was like, I don't know, 7 years old, 6 years old or so. Um, so I was just in this pursuit, but basically I got saved when I was 16 when I was in Mexico. Um, my mom sent me out to like this youth camp situation, um, because by then she became the first believer in our home. And basically, I encountered God in such a way where I felt like it just ruined me. It just ruined me in the best way, because nothing in this world could compare. And so basically, everything in my life has just been like that, just a simple pursuit of His presence, a pursuit of His voice, and following His lead. And that's just really what got me to where I am today.

One of the things that you shared with me, which I thought was really sweet, was someone praying. For you, praying for your family, praying for Faith. Who was that? Talk about her for a little bit.

Oh yeah, my, my grandmother-in-law. So my grandmother in love, really. My, my husband's grandmother. She was an immigrant Korean American brought over here by her son. And she— I mean, no one will ever know her here in this world, but I guarantee you she will have one of the greatest rewards words in heaven. She lived on her knees in prayer. Um, she— I mean, to the point when, when I first met her as a t— uh, as a 19-year-old, um, having had just met my husband, she looked at me and she said, I've been praying for you all your life. You know, and she just knew when she just saw me, she knew that I will be her son's wife. She just knew. Um, she's the kind of woman that— I mean, bless her heart. I mean, she's, she's resting in peace now, so she's having a party in heaven. But she just knew God. She knew God. Um, she was one of the first Christians in her home, and her, her heart has always just been, let us be a family that lives after God's heart. And that's what she got. That's her fruit.

So do you feel like— oh, that is amazing. And as I was listening to you, you know, and I just talk about what I think in my head basically. So as I was listening to you, I was thinking, you know, we all have our own stories of how we either found faith, um, how we yielded to faith. Because some people grew up in homes where they were taught about the word, but they, you know, accepted it or didn't accept it and went their own way and then came back. Or people who had no, like, line in, you know, and literally they learned about Jesus on a college campus or in their 20s or whatever. So do you ever feel like personally, or do other people make you feel like because of the questions that they ask, that you struggle to identify with people who don't have that upbringing of faith where they're like, well, it's easy for you because while you weren't brought up in a Christian home, you found him early. Your family was not antithetical to the faith. You had a mother-in-law who was praying. Like, you kind of, even though you didn't start out, you weren't coming from behind. I think so many people in the faith feel like they're coming from behind. Like, you know, there was no picture of Jesus. There was no visit to a church service. There, there wasn't family who was even open to their personal faith. So do you ever find that when you share your story for yourself or for people, they're like, she's not going to get me, or, well, I'm glad that it happened that way for her?

Mm, yeah. I mean, that's also because, like, you know, we were joking about before, it's the elevator pitch version of the whole story. Whenever you get an elevator pitch version of any story, you leave out the, the divots, the, the rifts, the, um, the, the walls that you had to break down. And for, for me, I mean, yeah, it wasn't as simple and it wasn't as easy, especially coming from a home that wasn't churched. Um, my, my father was an atheist for a time. If anything, a lot of where they are today in the faith, which, I mean, all of us are believers now, faithful believers, um, it happened later when I was in my mid-20s and when I was already in ministry actually. So yeah, there was a lot of that, and it is spiritual warfare, and it's not going to be easy and romantic, uh, as it would be in a 3-minute 'this is what God did,' um, and it is real and it is hard. And I would say— and I was actually just thinking about this today— it's so funny because on social media and on media in general, I feel like preachers, ministers we come in with strength. But knowing most of my friends in ministry, that strength is just the anointing and power of the Holy Spirit, you know. And if you really know somebody off the pulpit, when the camera is off, you just see everyone's just flesh and bones, and you see how we all just struggle and we're just weaklings. I'm a huge believer, actually, and I'm just being honest, I feel like sometimes that God called me into ministry for my sake. For my sake, knowing like this is what it takes for her to just stay in line and, and to stay on that narrow path. And so, I mean, yeah, it's not easy all the time. And in a way, it is kind of the consequence of this day and age where everyone just has like a minute or 3 minutes just to explain the highlights of their stories.

Well, I love that. I love that because, you know, people will do that and they make— we all make judgments about somebody's story by the part that we see. And there's always you know, the part that we, that we, we don't. But I love the fact that you're able to say, you know, we, we all have to own our own stories and we don't have to fix them to make them digestible to anyone else. But I love the fact that, you know, just the recognition of here's the elevator pitch, but here's the part you didn't see. And there's always a part people don't see. Um, you know, I know that the idea of friendship with God is important to you cuz you've written a whole book about it. But Um, I think we spend so much time in different stages with God where, you know, first it's like, what do you say? I want to get the rules right. You know, it's like, thank you for saving me. There are people out in these streets who are like, just don't kill me, like, don't zap me. You know, I'm, I'm sorry again. You know, like, we have these different relationships with the different aspects of God. And, um, but one of those aspects is friendship. When do you think that you actually started feeling like— not knowing, but feeling like— God is my friend? Was it at the very beginning? Did it always stay that way? What has been the ebb and flow of friendship with God for you?

Oh my goodness, definitely not the beginning. I would say my friendship with the Lord came into maturity probably by my fourth child. What?

Yes. And your baby is how old?

She's 7 now. And, you know, I've been in ministry for near 20 years. And so, as in to say, I was ministering while still struggling with it. I was leading while still struggling with it. Let me tell you, I was anointed and still struggling with it, you know, because the anointing, that's all God, you know, that's not who we are. And I would still struggle with it even when the Lord has gifted me and anointed me to serve in, in somewhat powerful ways, right? Um, and yes, but I would say there was something about being forced— not forced, being put into a position where you're postpartum, you're exhausted, and you have absolutely nothing. Nothing. After your fourth child in 5 and a half years, I mean, I had Zero. Negative, in fact. And it's often that in those moments where we wonder, are we worth anything to God at all? You know, and I know a lot of young moms struggle in their relationship with God because they believe their intimacy with the Lord is contingent on their ability, and it's contingent on their circumstances.

It's contingent on me having my Bible, it was my pens, in my chair by the window with the lamp, and I'm supposed to spend an hour a day there in order to have—

1,000%. Yeah, with the candle, with the coffee, with the music playing in the background. Yeah. And that's just rarely— that just rarely happens. It's an early motherhood, is an incubation stage where you rarely have— like, you're not even in charge of your own body. Like, your children have ownership— they have ownership over your body. And so Yeah, it's a— it's— and I would say in the beginning I thought it was a hindrance to my faith, when later I realized it was setting my faith free. Um, and actually what it did was it set me free from needing the world to align for me to feel like I'm of value to the Lord.

It sounds like when your hands were so full and you actually couldn't do yes, all the things, you couldn't check all the boxes, that it's there that you realized, oh, he doesn't need me to.

Yes, exactly, that I don't need to meet this standard of being able to go to a 3-hour prayer meeting, uh, be like that.

Um, wait, do y'all have 3-hour prayer meetings? Is that for real?

Oh yeah, Koreans, we have 5-hour prayer meetings. Are you kidding me?

We—

let me tell you, Koreans are not perfect, but they know how to pray. That's for sure. That's for sure. Um, but yeah, like, I, you know, without being able to be that, um, aesthetic influencer that has their whole life together with morning rhythms and things like that, um, realizing, hey, I could be sitting on the ground surrounded by dirty diapers and laundry and a toddler pulling my hair. And I could still be on holy ground. That was what set me free. You know, it's any ounce of religious inclination that has to go in order for me to realize, oh wait, like, I— the burning bush is right here. The still quiet— the still quiet voice is right here.

Wow.

You know, it's interesting because what got Elijah out of the cave? You know, what got him out of the cave? It wasn't the firestorm. It wasn't the wind. It wasn't the earthquake. It was God's still small voice. And I think sometimes we're looking for the earthquake. We're looking for that crazy conference experience. We're looking for that testimony that we hear about on Instagram. We're looking for that to feel like, God and I were good.

Yeah.

When actually it's just a still small voice while you got VeggieTales blaring or Cocomelon blaring for the 50th time on the television. You have a sink full of dishes and bottles and you are just a mess. You haven't showered in 3 days. And in that moment, you are still on holy ground. You know, motherhood or any sort of busy season, I think sometimes we feel like we're always carrying this debt of intimacy that we owe to God, when actually Jesus, he broke that chasm. He's the one that closed that chasm. And the blood of Jesus is still strong even when you are in busy seasons. And all you really have to do is receive and accept that grace. And then you realize, oh wait, everything I've been wanting is just right here. It's right here while I'm in the commute to my work. It's right here while I'm waiting for the bus. It's right here. I don't need to be anything or be anywhere to have it.

So this realization, literally, I'm hearing you say in general when it occurred, but do you remember, like, was it just like, how did the light go off for you that this is it? Was it like one day? You, you remember feeling that way? Is it just, you know, did someone else outside of you say something and it made you reflect on, oh yeah, he's there? Like, how did you— because I think that's part of the problem is that we got to get above or outside of our situation to see what's really happening. Um, or we have some moment in the situation because otherwise it is just diaper upon diaper and dish upon dish, right? And, you know, nursing session upon nursing session and keep them alive and keep them inside and don't let the— I mean, you get caught in the busyness of it. So it's hard to even notice what is actually happening. So the realization that you're talking about, how did you— how did that realization come to you?

It didn't happen in one night. It didn't happen in one sitting. It had to happen over time. And anyone that's looking for that one pivotal moment, although That could happen. It just didn't happen to me. You know, I had many pivotal moments, but not one particularly pushed me over the edge. It just took a time of constantly having those moments, a time of constantly having people affirm me, God giving me encounters, just sometimes even me opening the Bible and letting my mind change as I read the Bible, you know, like it wasn't just all one huge magnificent event, but it was a series of events and a journey of healing that really got me to this place where finally I could say, "Oh yeah, no matter what I feel, no matter where I am, I believe that the Lord is in friendship with me and I am His friend no matter what." I would say one of the more dramatic moments was when one of my kids was in the NICU because he was born prematurely. And let me tell you, my theology was in crisis at that time because I believe in healing, but I just didn't understand why God wasn't healing, you know? And people were fasting, people were declaring stuff. People love declaring stuff, right? Like, they're just declaring, and it just wasn't happening. You know, and I, I kind of came to this point when I was in the hospital room, like, okay, God, what more do you want from me? You know, like, I, I'm getting— giving you what you want, but what's the point if you're not going to meet me in the— in that place of need? What's the point of being faithful if it feels like God doesn't match your faithfulness, right? We could have the audacity to feel this way, but this is just my truth. And I remember in that moment, the only thing that I felt from the Holy Spirit was, "Faith, I want you to give thanks." And I remember thinking, "I have nothing to be thankful for right now," you know? But I really felt strongly that that's what— that's the only thing that I could do. And as I was giving thanks, I mean, the first 20 minutes, it was nothing. It was like crickets. I didn't feel anything. I didn't sense anything. If anything, I was just doing it religiously, like, "Thank you for this day. Thank you for whatever," you know? Yeah, but there was just something about continually fixing my eyes on what God has been doing, and my heart was thawing to his presence that by the 40-minute mark I was just weeping. And I knew that I knew that I knew that I knew that I was before the blazing presence of Jesus Christ, like that I— that the Holy Spirit was with me right there in the hospital room. And there was just something in that moment where even though my son was not healed, even though circumstantially nothing changed, I was just fresh out of a C-section. And so my body was useless. I mean, my mind was useless. Everything was useless. But yet in that moment, I knew that what God was to me was enough. You know, and it was just moments like that and a series of other moments like that, that eventually got me over the hill.

When you talk about the moments that nothing like major happened, but you just kept going through them. And I have a picture of you on the floor changing diapers, watching Cocomelon, you know, fixing lunch or whatever. Um, what did it look like, even though you didn't necessarily feel like you were doing anything monumental or that anything monumental was happening? What did it look like for you to pursue the Lord and to prioritize your faith in that season? Because like you said, your time is not yours, your body's not yours, the rhythms aren't even yours. It's hard to, you know, as soon as you find a rhythm, it's gone because the kids are scheduled.

Totally.

So what did it look like in those seasons for you to, um, pursue the Lord and prioritize your faith?

When were you reading?

When were you praying?

I was just acknowledging him in all my ways, you know, and that's sometimes all I could do, right? Like, and when I say acknowledging him in all your ways, that sounds really pretty, um, because it's part of a Bible verse in Proverbs 3:5-6, right? But, um, what it is is as I am frustrated, opening my mouth and saying, Jesus, I'm frustrated, okay? What are your thoughts about that? Or when I'm heartbroken, I mean, I mean, I'll just be honest. Even on— I just came from a trip last night at 2:00 AM. I was depleted. I remember on the way home, I remember telling God, I'm sad. And I'm just telling him, I'm sad. Not because of any major reason, but just because I was exhausted. And like, there were delays. And it was just a lot. And I just missed home. And I remember telling him, I'm sad. And I think when we get out of our head and we're just reaching Jesus, who's right there with us, that is acknowledging His presence. It's kind of like grocery shopping with your best friend. You're still on task, but you're aware of a presence that's with you, right? Even now, as I'm talking to you, my friend, like, I'm acknowledging the Holy Spirit that's with me right now. And eventually, as you constantly grow in awareness of His nearness, that determines determines what you experience, what you feel, what you see, what you sense. It shapes you. It forms you. We're constantly being formed by something, right? But the more you acknowledge him, you eventually become formed by the Holy Spirit. You become formed by Christ. I know the marker between David and Saul, um, King David, King Saul, um, if you look at their, their records, right, like King Saul did less bad things, if you think about it. Yeah, on record, right?

Yeah.

But there was something about David where he was just being formed by God. And it is because every time Saul went to God, he went to God with, uh, an ask of just, bless my agenda, right? But David, what marked David's kingship was he's always inquiring of God, right? So Saul was using God David was going to God. And instead of saying, "Bless my agenda," David was, "What is the agenda?" He was interacting with God. He was acknowledging God's presence, whereas Saul was just using God's presence. And so Saul was not formed by God, but David was formed by God. So what was once a messy king eventually, I mean, died faithfully. Right? Um, and so I would say just acknowledging him in all your ways, and whether that's grieving with him, thanking him, uh, asking of him, inquiring of him, petitioning him, whatever it is, um, as we learn to acknowledge him, we'll eventually experience him.

Hello! Guess what? It's the summer. Technically, it's not actually fully summer yet. Summer kicks off June the 21st, Now I know it's summer because I'm in Texas and it's June, but summer officially on the calendar is the 21st. You want to know what else is happening on the 21st? I'm throwing a little bit of a party. Listen, it's free, it's virtual, and all you have to do to come is register. How do you register, you might ask? Well, I'm going to send out that registration link first to those who are on my email list. How do you get on my email list? Super simple. Simply go to thesistercircle.com. Chrystalhurst.com/summer. You put in your first name, you put in your email address, and voilà, you're on it. But also, when you do that, I'm going to give you my free summer bucket list. It is a list we have curated, the girls in the Inner Circle, some other Sister Circle girls, and we put together a list of ideas. And then I give you a pretty blank piece of paper. It's pretty and it's blank so you can write your summer bucket list down. Whatever made you think that once you grew up and you weren't a kid anymore, that you should stop making summer plans? Y'all, yeah, I know we need to be productive because we're grown, but also you need to plan for fun and you need to plan in some foolery. What else are summers for? Why am I doing this, you might ask? Because Inner Circle Girls and I, it's the Summer of Sisters. Right now we're actually in the middle of a Move and Groove Challenge where we're working out together every day and sharing our workouts with one another. That we're doing online on social. Anybody can join us, check it out, go to the Sister Circle online on Instagram. But also, every month this summer, we're focusing on an area of our house— our physical health, our financial health, our relational health. Because listen, if you're not intentional about laying every brick of your life intentionally, one by one, focusing on one brick at a time, what are you doing? You can't build a house if you don't focus on one brick at a time. So physical, financial, and relational, that's what we're doing this summer. It's our Summer of Sisters, and we have all kinds of amazing things planned for our Inner Circle. On June 21st, not only am I having a party, but the Inner Circle is opening up. Y'all, it's been closed since the beginning of the year. It will be closed until the end of the year. But on June 21st, I'm gonna open up the door so anybody who wants to join us for our Summer of Sister amazeball fun, so that you can. And not only are we doing all of this in the Inner Circle, but the goal of what we're doing in the Inner Circle is to help you do this in your real life. I can make you my sister, but you need to make somebody else your sister, to be intentional about the relationships with your girls. So get on my email list so that you won't miss the link to the free summer party so that you can get your summer bucket list. And so that when the doors open for the Inner Circle, you will know. Summer, summer, summertime. You see me in my yellow. You see me with my braids. You see me with my little kitty ball on my head. Y'all, 'cause summer is time for fun and it's time for sisters. And I hope that you join us for at least one, two, or maybe even three of the things that we have for you to do. Why? 'Cause this is your life. And I wanna help you be intentional about building it this year. Brick by brick. You used a certain word, um, a little bit ago when you were talking about, you know, being at home with the kids and learning to engage in God's presence in the season that you were in. Um, and the word you used was healing, and you were saying, you know, you were in need of healing, seeking healing. I think that we— I think that I, um, We start off first with the things that we're supposed to do to engage in a relationship with God based on what we're taught. Mm-hmm. And so yes, we pray and we go to church and we study the word and we'll ask for what we need. Um, I think it takes us a long time though to get around to healing. Takes us a long time to get around to particularly internal, emotional, mental healing.

Yes.

Yes. Um, partially because Jesus is a friend who we can't touch, who we can't see. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And anyone who I have a friendship with that does not really know me, who's not with me, who hasn't been around me long enough to know my nuances and my nonverbals and to pick up on these things, I can have a conversation with somebody, And it'd be a real conversation, but we won't go past the surface because they know me, but they don't know me like that. And so I personally think that there are areas for many of us where we need healing, we need God's touch, but we keep him at a surface— not negatively, but just factually— we keep him at a surface of acquaintanceship and associateness that is def— different than you are my friend. And if I'm in need of healing, if there's pain— you mentioned sadness.

Yeah.

Um, if there's disappointment, if I am frustrated, that we're not necessarily inviting him there because to be a good friend of Jesus, I just read the word and I go to church and I pray. I do this on the list. I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about knowing God like that, and maybe what areas of your life you needed his touch beyond the surface and beyond the list of things that you were supposed to do. I mean, you talked about gratitude in, you know, 20 minutes in and then 40 minutes in. And I, you know, I'm thinking about those who are listening and thinking, oh, I wouldn't make it through the first 5. Like, I'm gonna give my, you know, thank you for our daily bread, and I'm out. Yeah. Really getting to that point in your relationship with the Lord and communication with him where he's able to touch those places. So, um, I'd love to know, maybe thinking back on that season, if there was something that you were thinking about when you mentioned the word healing. But what does it look like to dip below the surface and to let God touch us and heal us in those places?

I think that's the gift of the wilderness. I think that's the gift of grief. I think that's the gift of when we are at our worst. Um, as in to say, we can't heal if we're constantly trying to give him our best. Um, but healing is only possible when we include him at our worst. And that won't happen unless sometimes we go through things and we are willing to include God in the process, right? Um, I think especially those that have the best intentions with the Lord. I know a lot of people that love God, truly love God, but in their love for God in a broken way, um, we are so adamant to only want to give him our best and only want to give him, um, perfection.

Are you a perfectionist?

I could be. I could be. I've, I've been set free though.

How are you naturally wired? First wired?

I'm a mess. I'm a naturally— I'm a natural mess. But as in to say, like, I'm not, I'm not organized. I'm not like, I'm just chaos everywhere. But I, I, out of anxiety, I could become a perfectionist. You know, as in like, out of my wounding, I could become a perfectionist. Um, and I think when we are always wanting to just give him our Sunday best, uh, even— I think you could even tell in your prayers if your prayers sound, um, very well-intentioned, neat, theologically correct all the time. I would say I would encourage someone like that to go deeper, because what you feel isn't always theologically correct. And if you're always trying to sound it before God and hide what you actually feel, then there is a chance that a formation is not happening, a healing is not happening, redemption is not happening. Um, like, I remember there was this time when— because my son had a lot of health complications in the beginning of his life. And there was a time when I was— I spent about 2 hours every night putting him to sleep because he had really, like, deep issues with allergies and eczema. And if I didn't, he would harm himself to a bloody mess because he would scratch himself really badly. And so I'd hold on to him. And so 2 hours every night. Asking God for healing and doing all these things and sitting in the dark, I mean, it messes with your head. And I remember one time what came out of me, and this was not my intention, but what came out of me was I said to God, "Is this funny to you?" Listen. "Is this funny?" You know, and when it came out, my brain was like, "Uh-oh, like, why would you say that to God? The audacity," right? But then I realized that's the truth of my heart, though, that I've been pushing down for so many years because there was a part of me that still saw God as this cruel taskmaster, as a cruel master that all He cared about was teaching me a lesson because He thought I was a terrible person. And obviously, this comes from wounds. This comes from broken experiences, right? I didn't realize how much that was carrying over to my view of God, because I was a pastor, I was a Bible teacher, and these are things that I don't think that I believe in. But your heart could still believe in— your, your feelings could still believe in. And unless we allow space for that mess in our prayers, you will never get healed.

You've mentioned healing and woundedness more than a few times. What are we talking about?

Mm. I mean, what are we not talking about? You know, I mean, mess. I struggled with depression, anxiety, you know, growing up in the complexities of an immigrant household, church issues with the complications of power struggle.

What do you mean about church issues? Issues don't—

Oh my gosh. I mean, if we had 8 hours, I could graze it, you know, like, as in, I mean, like, if we, if we want to go into church hurt, let me tell you, this is the real real. I did not want to be a pastor. I actually ran away from God for about a year after my undergrad, um, because I said to the Lord, how could I become what I hate? Because I hated pastors for a time.

Wow.

I felt like all they cared about was putting you in line. And I, and I mean, basically the church that I served at in my young adult time, in my college years, current— I mean, they, they went through a lot now. So I mean, there was a huge MeToo movement that came out of that church. Sexual abuse, spiritual abuse. Power abuse. I mean, all of it. Um, and as a 19-year-old girl that was just in love with Jesus, but still needed to be mentored and discipled, and I went into this church like a sponge, you know, like I wanted to learn, I wanted to grow. But with that, um, having had been sometimes guided in a very punishing way and constantly being punished, uh, eventually that gets to your head. That, that transfers over to the way you think about God. And so knowing that I was called to be a pastor, to get my M.Div., to be a part of the church, I didn't want to. Yeah, I ran away from God. I remember it. Let me tell you, I'll just be real because, Chrystal Hurst, I love you and I feel like you invite the real, um, I— what changed my mind from running away from God was actually I was crying in the parking lot of Walmart.

Everything happens at Walmart. Everything happens in the parking lot.

List it. List it. Yes. I was crying at the parking lot of Walmart because I was in a job that I knew I wasn't meant to be. I was an adult. I was at an adult day center as an activities director. And this was just simply because I knew what I was supposed to do. I just didn't want to do it. So I just took any job. Yeah. But I was just weeping before God because I was frightened. I was scared. I didn't want to go into what I hated. I didn't want to go into a system that hurt me so much, you know, that I didn't find much beauty. Beauty in. Now, now I know there's so much beauty in, of course. But when this is one of the first church experiences that you've ever had— because mind you, I, I got saved at 16, and I was in— I was experiencing all this when I was 19, um, or 20-ish. Like, it's, it's, it's scary. And I also, on top of that, I didn't know a lot of female pastors. Now add on top of that, I didn't know a lot of Asian American female pastors, you know. So what does this mean, you know? And, um, I was just wrestling before the Lord and constantly admitting to him, I don't think I could ever be what you want me to be. Like, I don't— I could sort of imagine what I should be. I can't be that. But I could give you my yes if you're willing to take that. Like, if you're willing to take my Broken, messy, yes, I'll take that. Oh, and let me tell you, um, did I feel the car fill with his presence? No, like, no, I didn't. But I cried out all my nos where all I had was a yes.

Wow.

And so I remember that was what it was, it was a turning point where I was like, okay, I'm gonna go into ministry now, I think I'm ready. You know, I didn't go in triumphant. I didn't go in, you know, all armored up feeling like I have all the spiritual authority. I just had a yes that was left. That was all I had because I just cried out all my nos, you know. But even as I share this story, my heart is so tender because when I look back, I know God was with me. When I— now, when I look back, yeah, you know. And I know there's some people right now that feel like, I don't know if God's truly here right now. Um, keep saying yes, and later when you look back, you'll realize, you'll, you'll start to see that God never left you, you know. And that's how it was for me.

It's so good, so good. You know, I, I think that, um, in that visual of crying out all your nose, it's like, it makes me think about cooking. You know, it's totally off topic, but when you— if you've ever watched a cooking show and they're like, you know, you have to reduce it, and you, you get all the water out and you're left with all this flavor in the pot, but you have to let it sit there, you know, and boil out. Yeah, there is a reduction of the thing that shouldn't be in order to experience fully the thing that should be. You've talked about anointing a few times, and for those people who don't— who don't understand what that is or what it looks like, um, I mean, I even was thinking about, um, I know that you all have a this conference called Anointing that you're gonna be at, or that you're going to be attending. But when you use that phrase to talk about what it looks like, you know, you said the anointing didn't fill the car. You've talked about speaking, preaching, teaching with the anointing. What does that look like? It comes from the Lord, absolutely. Yes. What does that look like? What does that mean?

How do you get there? Right. It's the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, really. A literal translation of anointing sometimes is smir, you know, the anointing was used to sanctify and also empower in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, anointing also comes from the Holy Spirit. And so you could be filled with the Holy Spirit. But when the Holy Spirit comes upon you for a certain task, for a certain assignment, That means you are empowered to break chains. You're empowered to bring healing. You're empowered to do things that you will not be able to do on your own, you know. And I, I do think there is a difference between spiritual gifts and an anointing. You could be gifted, um, and not even be faithful to the Lord, you know. Um, but anointing, when it happens, um, it changes people. You know, I think gifting could often inspire people. Yeah, but anointing is what breaks off the yoke. It's what brings the shift of the mind. Um, it's not— I know it sounds extremely like, uh, charismatic, so to speak, and that's like a term to say, you know, those that express themselves like a Pentecostal, you know, things like that. Um, but anointing could happen even as you teach. You could have an outline and you could just be teaching, but people's lives could be saved and healing internally could be happening. Even physically could be happening, even as you just sit down and look at your sheet of paper and you're just teaching. And so yeah, that's what I mean by anointing. It's the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

How often do you feel like you experience that?

Let me tell you, my natural—

I want it on tap. That's what I want. I want to be like, okay, Jesus, I'm about to go do this. Because even if I feel like I'm operating in the power of the Holy Spirit, meaning that I've been obedient, I've done my work, whether I'm teaching or whether I'm encouraging someone personally or from a stage Like, I've set the stage, I've set myself up where, um, you know, if the Holy Spirit wants to add to or take me further than I intended to go, he is welcome. And sometimes I'm like, I've done what I'm supposed to do, you know what I mean? Like, even in my home, it's like, there's— I, I'm gonna serve my family, I'm gonna make sure dinner's on the table, I'm gonna, you know, encourage, reprimand where needed with the kids, I'm gonna, you know, all these. And then there are other days when I just feel this amazing level of power to easily keep my mouth closed, or come on, or to easily not react. And it's just like, you know what, and I can say that, you know what, I just— the Holy Spirit really, really enabled me in a special way today. Come on, to hold my mule, right? And so, uh, so there are times when I feel like I'm I'm fighting from a place of doing the right things, but without the extra octane. And then there are times when I have the extra octane and I can't demand it, if that makes any sense. I can request it, but I can't always demand it. So I'm just curious, is it always for you? Like, what is that?

It's interesting. I, I, and I, I love, I, I love this, by the way, uh, because you're asking the nuanced questions. Um, and I would say if you live a life that values the anointing, then, then everything else kind of, kind of overflows from there, you know, because I think a lot of people value their, their strength their ability, and they value their plans. But it starts with that value first, you know. When you realize just how much you need it, then you will do the actions that, um, that kind of really set you up to live by it, you know. I mean, I believe there are things that you can do to, to expand the anointing on your life and to also ensure that you remain in the anointing, you know. I think there is the cost of prayer. There is the cost of being with the Lord, the sacrifice of praise. And I mean, you could go on about all these things, but none of that will really happen if you don't think you need it, you know. And I think it starts with realizing just how much you need it. I think living a life, kind of like what you're saying, uh, when you are not anointed, it's almost as if you're under surgery without anesthesia.

Whoa.

You know, it's like you like you just feel everything, and everything has the power to take you down in a way. Um, but when you're in the anointing, your, your thoughts are higher, you know? I don't know, like your, your emotions are, are, um, more sanctified, right? Your, your actions are more sanctified. And so I think just, um, living a life knowing, God, I need your anointing to go to The grocery store. God, I hate your advice.

What happens if I love that illustration of being under the knife without anesthesia? But there are times we know, I mean, I, one year it's like I broke a finger. It's a whole thing about me riding a bike in San Francisco and the whole thing. And the finger still is not straight. That was like, you know, 20 years ago. But the point is, is I didn't have anesthesia. And he was just like, "I'm gonna put it back into place." And I was just like, "And you're gonna give me a shot, right?" He said, "No, I'm just gonna put it back into place." And there are times when I do feel that in my life, I would like for it to be easier. I would like to have higher thoughts. I would like to, you know, in fact, that's a part of the, I think that's a part of the friendship with God in the wrestle. You know, did Jacob have to, was he a friend of God? Was he not a friend of God because he was wrestling? Or is it because of friendship that he felt the freedom to wrestle? You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

But, um, it's sometimes it's in the wrestle where I'm like, God, why, why don't I feel that I have what it takes to have a higher thought, have a better approach to kind of get through this and see your hand and kind of, you know, so do you have times where you know what it is like to experience the overflow of anointing in your life? And then there are times when you wish you had that sense and you're just going through trudging obedience.

Oh, absolutely. And I believe now, now I believe that those times of trudging away out of obedience is setting me up for that breakthrough and anointing. Look at there, you know, I, I, I— now I know. Back then I thought, you know, it's because I failed. No, no, I think God's just setting us up because that time is valuable too. I think sometimes we devalue it so much.

Yeah.

Because we feel like this is just setting me up to fail God. This is just setting me up to just be bad, you know, and make mistakes. But actually, it's when you don't feel it and your raw flesh just comes out and when you say yes Lord, still, that obedience is the sacrifice that he's going to light a flame.

Mm.

That obedience, that trust. Because I really believe if you want to keep cultivating anointing, um, generally I see two common threads in people that are like super anointed, you know, like that really anointed people. I mean, I see two common threads that I just by observation you know, um, is one, they value the presence of God, but two, they value obedience.

Yeah.

And you need to do both, and both can be done in those seasons where you are feeling like you've got no power, when you got nothing. And I think, to be honest, that is what sets us up for that time of breakthrough. Because let's just say let's just say we are always just anointed, on fire, and all these things. I don't think we'll need faith, to be honest.

True.

You know, uh, I don't think we'll need much faith, but actually it's faith that sets us up for that times of empowerment.

So good. So the presence of God is obviously the thread through which the, the idea of friendship with God follows. It is— you can't have a relationship and a connection with someone that you're not in their presence.

Yeah.

Um, and so intentionally being in God's presence is what drives the feeling of friendship that we have. So for the person who is like, I love what y'all are talking about, anointing may be a little bit of Greek to me, but Definitely, I understand presence, and I would love for Jesus to be my friend. I may go to church, I may study the Bible, I may even do a devotional every day, but I'm not at the friend level. I'm not really feeling friend. I'm feeling Lord. I'm feeling like, obey. I'm feeling like, what did Jesus do? I'm feeling like I want to get it right. I don't want to get in trouble.

Mm.

But I don't feel friend. For somebody who is saying that today, as we wrap up our conversation, what encouragement would you give to them?

God wants friendship with you than you could ever want of him. You know, I mean, the Bible could have ended at Genesis 3 and it could have been just that, right? Um, but if you look from Genesis to Revelation It is just God constantly pursuing, not just a deity and creation sort of relationship, but a friendship. It's just God in pursuit. Like, yes, God is everywhere. You know, he's, he's in the sky. He's, he's, you know, he's around. He's in the molecules. He's in the mountain. Like, yes, God is everywhere. But when we say presence of God, we're talking about His immanent presence, the presence that is relationally accessible. You see evidence of presence from Genesis to Revelation, meaning, yes, is God in the clouds? Sure, you know, but God is also healing, helping, protecting, rescuing, guiding, teaching, and the Holy Spirit is the counselor, teacher, everything. But yeah, the— our, our friend. I mean, he's, he's our ever-present help in time of need. I mean, that Holy Spirit and the fact that Jesus died, had to go to heaven so that all of us could receive the Holy Spirit, just proves that he will not settle with us unless we go into friendship, right? He proved by his actions throughout biblical history that he does not just want a colleague-level, uh, just associate-level sort of relationship with us. He does not— he did not die on the cross so that we could remain strangers. He died on the cross so that we could have more, so that we could be friends. And everything that we do is meant to be an overflow of our friendship with the Lord. You know, and I think we have to start there before we do anything else. Before you do the devotionals, before you go to Sunday service, before you do all those things, you have to be convinced of this biblical truth that God wants friendship with you and will always want friendship with you way more than you could ever want of him.

So good. He's pursuing us. We love him because he first loved us.

Yes.

Thanks so much for joining me, Faith. This was great to get to chat with you off TBN set and connect not only with you specifically and learn more about your life, but also to learn more about a topic that's very passionate and you've written about it, Experiencing Friendship with God: How the Wilderness Draws Us to His Presence. So this conversation has struck a chord with you and you want to get more connected with Faith Eury Cho or check out her book, Experiencing Friendship with God, I encourage you to to do that. We'll make sure that you have— we have all of the links that you need to, to find her and to connect further. Thanks for joining me, Faith. I'm grateful for the time.

So fun. Thanks for having me.

Wow!

Wow!