Finding Joy in the Messy and Mundane with Rachel Awtrey

Hey, y'all. I'm back on the couch, and I get an opportunity to have friends visit with me, and for me to share what I'm learning in my curiosity about their story. And they get a chance to share their wisdom as I'm asking questions with you. So, I'm so happy to have someone that I met because I was on her podcast. And she was so fun, and our conversation was so great. I was like, "Well, if you're ever in Dallas, I'd love to have you sit on the couch and talk to me." And Rachel Autry is here today, joining me. Thank you. Fresh off the plane.

Like, fresh off the Uber.

Rolled in here and we get a chance to chat today. Welcome, Rachel. I'm glad you're here.

Thank you for having me. This is fun.

It is fun, and it's fun to like meet and touch in person.

I say that all the time. I think that with, uh, online friends, online life, when it can become in person and you actually link arms, you actually hug, you're like, I love what we do. It's very fun.

So you've been podcasting for how long?

Since 2018, so about 7 years.

Veteran. Because, you know, everybody— we got all these baby podcasts joining the ranks, and I love them. We love them. It's just you're a veteran because you could be— you could have been in the game for a minute if you started in 2020. But if you were before the 2020 surge, you were really— we were pioneering in the 24, 25 surge. Yes.

No one knew what they were doing. I just— like, it was— I literally built my podcast on SoundCloud with all the rappers and then me. So it was funny.

So inquiring minds, just deep diving the end of the pool. Who are you using to host and post your podcast now?

Now I'm with a network. I'm with That Sounds Fun Network.

Oh yeah.

With Annie. Yeah. And we use Megaphone.

Okay.

So the fun, the fancy, the foolery, all of it.

So you're doing all the things. You run ads.

We run ads.

You run ads. That's fun.

We do it.

We do it. That's so great.

That's really fun. I mean, it's a free show.

It's a free show.

I tell my listeners, I'm like, if you love me, just sit through this for a second.

Just sit through the ad. You literally say that.

Go grab some water.

Yeah. I'm like, send this to a friend.

Right. Go put the thing in your notebook.

Help me, help me continue to keep helping you. Help me help you.

Yes. So just listen. That's what I say.

When you started the podcast, why'd you do that? So, uh, because that sounds fun. You see what I did there? But anyway, yeah, go ahead. Why did you start?

So we started it, um, back in 2018.

Mm-hmm.

Started it with a great friend. Her name's Mary Scott. We are still great friends. People always like to read into it like, ooh, but now you're a solo show. What happened? I'm like, life, things, motherhood, all of that happened. So we started in 2018 really as a summer project. We were like, what, what is it that maybe the Lord is asking us to do in this moment, because our— both of our husbands had very intense jobs that just required a lot of them. Right now he's in the military.

And are you moving a lot?

We, we are. Well, we were. We're not anymore. Okay, praise God. We're here for, for a second. And, um, we just— we needed something, and we had some really cool friends with some really cool stories. We realized there was this gap in the industry where there was entertainment and there's ministry.. And so it was either NPR crime junkies, kind of gross shows, or there were, um, churches putting their sermons up from Sunday, which is honorable. But I was like, what is the thing for the woman unloading her dishwasher that can't just have a Bible and her notes right next to her that wants—

and wants a little bit of entertainment.

Entertainment.

Yeah.

To laugh, to know it's gonna be clean, to know it's not gonna be a waste of her time.

Right.

So we kind of just started, we did it, we made a little talk show, faith-based talk show. And then it just, it grew and it was a lot of fun and it took off. And I think it grew because it was fun for us to do.

Is it still fun?

It is a blast.

What are you doing to keep it fun?

That's a really good question. I love that. I think we are very particular with who we have on the show now.

And you're talking in we's. Who is the we?

I, okay, hear me say, when I say we, people are like, but you're the only girl behind the microphone. And I think you'd say this too, like, there are incredible women sitting, and men sitting in this room with us right now.

Correct.

Bam, bam, bam. Helping make this happen. And I think that if I say I, it sounds and it feels—

You have a team.

Fraudulent to me. I have a team.

Okay.

So we have a producer that edits the show. We have a network that helps us manage and grow and do ads for the show. Mm-hmm. I have some fun personal friends that help me. So I just feel like it is very much a team effort.

Yeah.

So when I say we, I understand.

I mean us. Correct. I just wanna know, inquiring minds wanna know. I love it.

I love it. So, yeah, we are very particular with who we have on the show. Not because we're being exclusive, but because I want to sit behind a mic and be like, I'm excited to have this conversation.

And you want to have the conversation because have you had an experience, Chrystal Hurst?

I know where you're going.

Where you were sitting behind the mic and thinking, Lord, help me stay away. Yes. Will I ever even share this? Or I'm going to share this., but I'm gonna have to edit the mess out of it to make it something that actually is listenable and digestible. Yes. That is not fun.

No. And I say all the time, like, podcasts are for personalities. If you wanna listen to like a book and someone read a script and a thing, go get an Audible download. Go download an audiobook.

Yeah.

So this is personal, this is personality. And so whenever a guest can't meet me with personality, I'm like, okay, okay, okay. I love it.

And so you're doing your homework to make sure that there's personality behind the person.

Yeah. Like, would we be friends in real life?

Yes. That's always fun. That's what makes meeting a guest in person who I have met virtually fun. If it was like, "I thought we would be friends when I thought about having you on the podcast." And then, I had you on the podcast and it was like, "Oh, we would be, we would be friends." "Oh, we could go get coffee." "We could go get coffee." And people would be jealous of the conversation we're having at the table. That's correct. And we'd have to go, "Okay, we have to stop." "We gotta go." "Because we've been here for 2 hours." That's right.

So it's those people that I really am trying to have a radar for. And at this point, I think you get this too, but you have a lot of people that would love to share that space with you that you do have to have some discernment for. Like, okay, Lord, like it, there's only 52 weeks of the year, 52 shows that we have cuz we do one once a week, but we're getting 20 pitches a week. Okay, then who is it? You know? And so it kind of feels like a treasure hunt.

Everybody that's getting pitched is not It's not gonna be your person.

And that's okay. Mm-hmm. It reminds me of Lisa Terker. She has this book called The Best Yes. And I'm like, if I said yes to you, it might not be a disservice for me. It's not a selfish no.

Yeah.

It's a no because it might not be the best use of your time and your platform or your niche either. And so I want this to make sense and be strategic because God's strategic. He cares. And so that's why.

How much of your time does this take? Mm. Because you got kids. Mm-hmm. You got, you're married. How old are your kids?

I have two little boys. They're 4 and 2.

So you're in the middle, in the thick of it.

You get it. This is a naptime hustle at this point. Mm-hmm. Which is why I say we, mm-hmm. Because there's other people that have to help me. That's correct. Um, goodness, I don't think I've ever really tracked it, but I would probably say between recording and the strategy and even just like the email management and the admin of it all, it could probably take like easily 10, 20 hours a week depending on how into it you are.

So you've got to, but it's one of the things that I do.

You get this?

Yes.

It's one avenue. Of the many. So I also have to be careful cuz I could give it my all. It is beyond fun for me. So make sure that we're strategic.

Are your boys at home? They are.

Well, they're in a part-time Mother's Day out.

Okay.

Yes.

Praise God for the Mother's Day out.

We like to socialize them and we also like to socialize ourselves.

Socialize me. Correct. Yes. So listen, I homeschooled my kids. Uh, the youngest is now 16 and we do, I do one little thing at home, but he's mostly at school. But when they were— and I've been homeschooling for 20-something years, okay? But with each child, when they were between 2 and 4, they had to leave. I was like, "I need you gone 2 or 3 days a week," because of the amount of management and oversight that they need so that they are not killing themselves, ingesting toxic chemicals, writing on my walls. It is nonstop on. And I was like, "Praise God for the—" inexpensive, reasonably priced Mother's Day out. Yeah.

Thank you, Methodist Church down the road. You know, like, thank you. So it's been sweet.

100%.

And good for them too, you know? Yeah, they realize like, oh, there's other authorities in my life and there's reinforcement to things mom talks about too.

Yeah. That's so great. Okay, so you keep it fun by keeping the conversations fun. Yes. What is something about this podcasting journey that maybe you didn't anticipate that hasn't been? As exciting as you would have liked.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think that with, I'll say that, that, that when you are sharing your life online, there is this odd tension between I wanna share because this feels so natural. And when you have fun people on the show, you can get to talking and then you say stuff that you remember that was not for everybody, that cannot be out there. So I think what doesn't seem fun is also the weird tiptoeing. Again, like discernment and like, what belongs out there and what does not? Like, what needs to be personal and private for my people? And what can be public? And when do we share? What do we share? How much do we share? With who do we share? Because it's a whole— I mean, when it goes public, you cannot take it back.

And it does feel like this little conversation that you're having with this one person over coffee. It's just that you plan to press public. And you have a microphone, right? And you have a microphone. And it'll be little things, like just a little nuance-y thing. But if somebody listens to all of your shows, shows, they start putting things together. They're like, oh, you know what? She talked about this with her husband. She talked about this with her kids. I think this is what's really happening behind the scenes. Or people don't listen to enough shows. Or they make big assumptions. That's right.

Super presumptuous about it. And you're like, wait, no, we're fine. So my husband is in the military. This is a good example. Um, and he was deployed for a while and I'm not gonna go and post on the internet that my husband's not home. Come and get me. Right. Right. Absolutely not. Right. We're ready. I dare people to, but like, I'm not gonna tell people. And, um, there was this moment. Oh, and oh, this is the other kicker. I was getting my ring fixed, so I only had on my wedding band, not my engagement ring. And my husband hadn't been in pictures for about 5 months. And so people just started with their own stories and narratives of what was happening in the Autry house. And I'd get messages like, sensing some change, praying for all of the things that are happening.

And I'm like, listen, if the Holy Spirit can stop being the scapegoat for for all the things that people are sensing.

So yes, yes. So it's things like that that then it's hard not to let it take root. There is like this inner work I had to do, my own confidence, my own identity. Allowing people to misunderstand me in order to carry through with obedience what the Lord's called me to is very hard. It's very hard. It's not cute, it's not fun, it's very messy. Um, my friends in my life now know, like, okay, Rachel, this is a big week for you. How are you doing? Pulse check. Um, so I feel like that's the part that I wish came more naturally that I don't think ever will. That I don't love. We went there. I just like, we went to the abyss. That's how I feel. That's great.

So yeah. Well, and I think people don't, we need to hear more of that because, you know, you assume somebody has a mic in front of their face, somebody is public, they've got some great headshots. Sure. People make all kinds of assumptions. And to be able to hear, hey, this is the part of it that's not that great. That's important. Well, here's what's great. You have a book that released last week at the recording of this video. And I know that you said you're excited about the book. We have it here and I wanna show it. "Love Your Life Even When You Don't Like It All the Time: A Realistic Guide to Unlocking Joy in Life's Messy, Mundane, and Magnificent Places." That's right. You love your cover? She's so fun. Okay, 'cause listen, this is the thing. I don't know if this came like easily or if you had to fight for the COVID but a lot of authors, you know, they have to fight for their cover. And the reason you wanna fight for it is because you're gonna have to look at it for a few years.

That's what they told me. They said, "Rachel, if you don't like it, you won't talk about it. If you don't talk about it, you won't sell it." Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Well, it is, it is super cute and fun. Thank you, thank you. All the things on the back are great as well. Thank you. I love— Chrystal approved. Chrystal approved. And I'm all about loving your life. Like, one of the things I'm saying all the time is that it's important that you live a life you love. And then, you know, all the super, super conservative people sometimes are like, "But we're not supposed to love our lives. The Bible says, if you love your life, you know, then you'll lose it. But if you lose your life, you'll gain it." I'm like, "That's not what we're talking about." That's kind of exactly where we go here. Yeah. Yeah. It's not— love it to the detriment of your spiritual development, growth, and identity. But there is a level of loving that is a part of losing so that you can actually experience something you would have never aimed for.

Yes, you got it.

What is the thing that you're talking about there that's related to that?

Yeah, I think, man, mm, I'm gonna say something. Go ahead. Go ahead.

You're a podcaster. There I go. Us podcasters know how to interview podcasters. Let's do it.

The church has gotten so good at talking about grief, sorrow, hardship, hope, all the things. I love it. I'm very good at grief. I could talk about grief all day long. I'm in counseling. I pay professional. Let's do it. However, there's a second half to the story that we have neglected that is so sad, because in my opinion, it is one of the main reasons that Jesus died on the cross for us, was that we had access to these gifts, to the Holy Spirit, to living a life with God that's abundant and that is fun and that we do enjoy. Because he delights in us and he is in pursuit of us this side of heaven. Even in a broken world, he's still left behind a trail of breadcrumbs for us to pick up and find, to know that he's here and he's begging for us to be with him. That is something we miss, and it breaks my heart. And then we have a lot of people walking around thinking that because life's hard, it's bad. That's not true either. And so I was like, we need something that gives people the permission to, yes, nod to the hard things, but to wake them up so they don't bow to them. So that's why I say you can nod to the hard things.

Say that. Yes, do that again. What?

You can nod to the hard things without having to bow to them. And too many of us have just adopted the truth that like, this is just how it is. This is just who I am. This is just what life is. I'm like, no, no. So it's very practical. It is a how do we wake us up? To living a life, to saying yes to the option, to leaning into obedience, to doing the work that affords you to be able to say, I can't change my life, but I can change my mind. So how do I do that? And I needed that textbook at one point. So I just kind of— Yeah, we write the books we need. We made it.

So I can look and say, okay, you are here, you are a podcaster, you now have a book that's live and in the world. And so yeah, you can nod to something other than grief, and loss, and pain, and frustration with the mundane. Because look at what you've done. If you were not podcasting and writing books, what would nodding to hard, but not bowing to it, look like? What in your real life would that be comprised of?

Yeah, there's this worldly quote, don't even remember who said it, but "Whatever you feed will grow." Yeah. And we have an option. Like, there's no option to not feed anything. You're always constantly choosing something, one or the other. What I would want people to hear me say is that no matter what situation you're in, you always have a choice. You have a choice whether to say, this is it, and again, this is how it will always be. Or I know I believe that there is— there are people that are happy to help me, that there are, um, rhythms that I can take control over, whether there's other things that I can't. Like, there is always something that we're able to look at and to ask God, like, what would you have me do with this situation? And that always unlocks another door that maybe we didn't know existed. In the first place. So hear me say, I'm not talking abundance like healthy, happy, and rich. Right. That is not it. I think it's also way more than that. I also have a lot of happy, healthy, rich friends that are not living a life they love. Mm-hmm. So it's not, it's not exclusive there. Right, right. It's this idea that, um, and I feel like I am allowed to say it, I do come from a really particularly weird, strange, hard, could be a Hallmark movie history that we don't go into fully in the book because it's not the right time and place.. But I can say confidently that there are moments that I look at my life and I say, this is not what I would've chosen. Um, and the Lord has afforded me some really cool friendships, um, moments, even like little God winks that over time they have collected as the evidence in my heart that it is, it is well with my soul. This is not the end of the story. Mm-hmm. And I think so many of us are waiting for those big massive moments. Instead of just the small little ones. And then in the pursuit of the big and the happy and the let's get over this and let's survive it, we miss a lot of the things that could be, could be the fuel to actually make it through.

So it's time to make your mark. Every step creates your legacy. Worship, vision, authentic connection. The tools are here if you're ready. Join women from all over for a weekend curated to change the course of your life. Pause. Hear God. It's time for you to make your mark. So, you have the 4 and the 2-year-old. Mm-hmm. And I know that a big struggle— it was a big struggle for me too. My husband traveled a lot when my kids were small. Yeah. And I don't know what you were doing. How old were you when you got married? —Oh, I was 21.

We were all babies. —You were all babies.

So, I remember feeling, even though I'd always wanted to be a mom, I remember feeling, you know, that season of being unseen, and the diapers, and the Groundhog Day. We're doing the same thing today that we did yesterday, just trying to make it to nap time, you know, all those pieces. And even though it was a life I wanted, there was a part, and I love that word mundane, 'cause it clearly communicates, it's just, it's not bad, it's just mundane. Um, what, like, in your daily life with your kids are things that keep you with your eyes open and with you seeing what there is to be seen apart from all the routine things?

Yes, yes, yes. This is probably one of my favorite things. So there's several different chapters in the book. I'll pick two of them. One of them is my home. I think if the home is where you're going to be a lot of the times when you have littles, unless you venture and go out and you're brave, um, I want it to be a place that one feels safe and feels fun, but I also want to be able to open it up to people no matter what. So if the world feels hard to go to, then I'll bring the world into me.

Yes, absolutely.

And so making sure that like we have the $1 boxed brownies from the store so that if someone pops over, we could just pick them up and they could make it. We, we have like It's not cute, but we have a couch people could sit on, right? Like, we have mismatched mugs, but you're welcome to go and grab it on your own. And so I think there's this level of gospel hospitality, including being hospitable to your kids. Like, what are things that we're providing here at home so that they have little moments that then reflect little fun moments for me as well? So that's one. Um, I'll actually do three. The next one I'd say is play. At some point we grew up and we decided that play is immature, it's not wise, it's not productive.

Listen, we're still supposed to play.

We're supposed to play. Have fun. Truly. Like, I mean, this is going to sound super frivolous, but again, don't, don't discount the frivolous. Like, it, it all adds up. Do you have a coloring book? Like, what did you do as a little girl that really made you so excited about life? Was it crafting? Was it nature? Do you go outside? Was it music? Do you have like a harmonica or like a little keyboard at home that you can use? Like, think about the things as a as a kid that lit you up? And how do you have avenues for that here still today? And then, um, the last one, I'd say this is going to be hard to hear, but I feel like I need to say it. I, for a long time, was following the rules of a household that were not my— not supposed to be my rules to adopt, but I did because that's what you're supposed to do. For example, this sounds silly, but follow me here. Motherhood. I got in this whole thing, I was like, motherhood's so hard. And then I had a friend be like, why? I'm like, well, because it's hard to get out of the house, you know? And she's like, why is it hard to get out of the house? Like, well, because you gotta get the shoes, you gotta get socks, you gotta make sure their hair is not all wild and bed heady and whatever. And she's like, well, why is it hard to get the shoes and the socks and the hair gel, whatever, like the products? I'm like, well, because, you know, they're upstairs, they're in a drawer. Why do you keep them upstairs in a drawer? Like, why would you not just keep them on your entry table in the front? I was like, you know what, you're on to something. And I think that if we were to follow the trail back down to these small little tiny nitty-gritty things that we can change we'd be very surprised how in the future it's reflected that way too. So my husband is a pilot in the Air Force, and I've learned a lot more than I should. I feel like I could fly an airplane if I wanted to. You know, those things you're like—

He likes talking to you about it. Oh yeah.

And you listen. Very good. Yes. We pretend to, you know, like the whole chair flying, figure it out, studying for his test.

I know flashcards. That's so amazing.

One of the things I learned was though about GPS is You only have to put in the GPS 1 degree off and over a certain amount of time you are way beyond your destination. Mm-hmm. You're like, but it was only 1 degree, but it matters. Yep. So like, what is the 1 degree that you're doing today that over a certain amount of time it matters? And there's a lot of things that if we were to backtrack and we realize, ooh, it's just cuz I didn't do this one small little thing. And again, like if God delights in details, then he delights in ours too. And so that's where we have an opportunity to be like, Where do you keep your socks in your house? Feels very dumb thing to like pray about. And I'm not saying like necessarily like get on your knees and fast over it, right? But like, are you paying attention? Are you woken up to your own life to be like, okay, I could keep my socks by the front door. Totally. In a cute basket. Right. You know? Um, so I, I mean, I could literally go on. I, I'm obsessed with it talking about this.

So, well, when you talk about a home, the first thing that you were talking about, I was thinking, and I loved how you talked about, I mean, it's a couch you can sit on, and you were like, I mean, and the mugs are mismatched, because a lot of times when people say home, and whatever joy they're supposed to get out of it, they feel like they can't get joy unless it's a certain way. Especially with the whole Instagram situation, is my house Instagrammable or not? And I have always said, you know, you can come to my house, and if there are clothes on the couch, they're clean. The underwear will be clean. You can help me fold 'em, and if you don't feel like it, we gonna push 'em to one end, and we're gonna sit right here. Or you're sitting there, and I'm doing the laundry, and so I come, and the warm laundry just gets, you know, put next to you. It's kind of cozy, warm laundry is. And just the ability to— and I always tell people, you can come over. First time, I'll serve you. Second time, you're at home. Go get what you want. You know, knock yourself out. The— how do you resist, if you even have to resist? How do you resist fighting for aesthetic. Mhm.

Well, hear me say, I do love aesthetic. I do.

I feel like you do. I do.

I do care. Um, and those are other like little hacks and tips and whatnot. But like, at the heart level, what I've learned and what I have to pray through and what I was convicted by is, do I want people to be impressed or do I want people to be loved? Because rarely are they both at the same time. And when I got to that point, I think of all the times I've been over to my friend's home and it didn't matter. And it didn't matter. Like she had an apple in her fruit, whatever, that should have been thrown away yesterday. Right. You know? And I'm like, oh wait, I got some bananas that are about to go bad too. Like it kind of triggers this response where you're like, I'm safe because it's similar and it's familiar. So good. And I think of like, it's safe because it's similar. Yes. Be— you think of like the, the couches that like our grandmothers may have wrapped because they didn't really want you to sit on it. And so they what do you do? You tiptoe everywhere else. Uh-huh. And you don't feel like, okay, wait, I can belong here. My kids can go a little bit wild here. Like, if they knocked something, it wouldn't be the first thing that had a scratch. Like that. I want to create that kind of environment where, like, hey, you can come over, hang out. And I am the girl, it's like, and yes, there's clean laundry, let's fold it together, we'll probably have a better conversation, right? Um, so I think I just would want people to to think through, like, are you trying to impress people or are you trying to love people? Yeah. And if you're trying to impress people cuz you care about the aesthetic only, or more so, then maybe it's not, it's not the right heart place to be in order to be hospitable. Like maybe you should wait and pray through that.

You talked about playing and I mean there's a, there's a part of, you know, the podcasting that's playing. Yeah. But again, minus the podcasting, mm-hmm. What else do you do? Mm-hmm. Or would you do if you were honing in on the role of play in your life? Mm-hmm.

Um, one, we, this is the first thing that came to my mind. So random. We love riding bikes with our boys. So like instead of sending them off on their bikes, like I grab my helmet and my bike too. Like, let's all go. Let's all go together. I think of, um, we make friendship bracelets. This is silly, but like we do and it's fun and it's kind of something I can invite them into. That's my thing. Rather than me having to jump into their thing all the time. Um, we go try new food around where we live, and I'm like, these are, these are the ways that you act in a place that's not our home, and we get to practice that. It's hard, but eventually it starts to become your normal. Um, all these things are like small little fun ways to play. Yeah, getting outside. Um, crafty is really for us— this sounds silly, but like dance parties like we throw on. We play games while we wait in line somewhere, like we start humming tunes and we have to figure out what song it is that we're humming. Like, playing and being a mom has really woken me up to that too. Like, oh man, I can't remember the last time I wore funky pants just because I wanted to, right? Like, I— again, what are we subscribing to? The thought of, the idea of that we should do because now we're a mom, or now we work corporate, or now we're 30 and we're supposed to act this way. Like, what are those things that you've kind of just understood that no one really has made the rule for.

Now, you are in— you are intentional about playing. Mm-hmm. Is your husband a player? Mm-hmm. I feel like he's a pilot. He doesn't sound like a player.

No. Oh, he is.

He is a player. Yes. Okay. Who's— so are y'all both even field playing people?

I think play comes supernaturally to him. Like, if we were gonna— to go on a date night, he's like, let's go bowling. I'm like, no, let's go eat good food. So we're different there. Okay. I've had to learn a lot more about it.

Well, that's what I'm asking. Because normally in a marriage relationship, somebody is the instigator and somebody's like, "I'll do it. Like, I'm not gonna come up with it, but I will do it." That's me. Okay. So, how—

I'm like, "It's a waste of our time." You know, like, "Why are we doing that? We only have 2 hours for the babysitter. Why are we gonna go bowling?" You know, but now I realize it.

So, you had to learn to lean into that.

Totally. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then too, I think, to get a little spiritual about it, I look at the gospel and I look at Jesus's life. And this kind of ties back to your question before about for the people that feel like their situation is impossible or that this is a naive idea for them, and I'm just some ignorant girl that has a job that she loves and a husband who loves his job too and two cute little boys. I'm like, wait, pause. No, they are suffering on the side of heaven for everybody. The whole earth is— the whole world is groaning, whether they talk about it or not. However, if we were to look at play and things being hard and still deciding to show up, I think the person that should have had the hall pass in his life is Jesus. Came to this earth, knew he was gonna be betrayed, knew it was gonna end ugly, knew it was for people that probably annoyed him and didn't deserve it. Like had to go to weddings and heal people as a single man. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And he still chose to dine and dance and delight. And then the gospels went from party to party to party and just had a blast knowing what was to come. And it was the joy that was set before him that he endured the cross. And so for us, like, it is the joy of the Lord that's our strength too. And so I just would want people to ask themselves, like, what brings you joy? Like, what are the small fun play things that God has uniquely designed you to enjoy? Chrystal Hurst, I would never, right? And vice versa. And when you tap into that, I think we'd be so shocked.

So apart from the joy things that you mentioned that were kind of connected to kids and family, for you yourself, what are your joy things.

Mine, I love art. Like, I love playing, like creating or looking.

Oh, good question, good question. I've been asked, you know, art could be connoisseur of versus creative.

Okay, I do like to look at art. However, I do love to like tinker, play with. I don't scrapbook, but I think like that, that kind of thing I'd love. This sounds silly, but like the internet feels a lot like art to me where I can like post things, design things, take pictures of things. I think the— when you're like, oh, do you care about aesthetic? I'm like, do I care about aesthetic? I do. So I think it's that, that really lights me up. I love, um, playing with my girlfriends and we go on walks for free. 99, you can go on a walk and it will wake you up. Go on a walk, make an iced coffee, or ask your girlfriend.

There's the Birmingham walk. Is that it? I heard it, I heard it. That's the only time I've heard it, but I'm like, there it is, there it is.

We've been here too long. Must, must move. Just kidding. Um, I think of walks, I think of you grab a coffee, bring me a coffee maybe, or I'll grab my coffee, one for both of us, and we'll walk. Um, movement, connection, movement, connection, fun, creativity, creativity. I love jokes, love comedy.

So in your friend group, what is your role?

Mm. Good question because I feel like I can really reflect on this well. We are in military. Yes. So we've moved 9 times in almost 10 years. Yes. Not all for military, but mostly for, and I've had to make a new little friend group everywhere we go. And, um, we, it's interesting. I think I'm the girl that listens. I can listen really well and I cannot say anything. I can also listen really well and give you a response if you needed it. Mm-hmm. Um, typically my house is the house people come over to, and by house I mean home. It's not always been a house. It's been other things too. Yep. Um, I think I'm, I'm like the, the learner, the reader, the person people borrow wisdom from. I love that. That's normally me, my friend group. Okay. Not the playful girl.

You're not the playful one.

I'm not the stylish one. I have other girls for that that let me borrow their clothes and tell me what We're gonna do it.

You did pretty good today. Thanks. You brought a change of clothes. I did. And you were like, should I wear this? But I'm like, you know, I just feel like, I feel like, you know, I'm in my 50s and the whole Gen Z slash young millennial look is how I wanna dress my whole life. You know, a little bit of grunge. Who cares if we've got a little bit of—

That's right, look at that. You know what I'm saying?

Oversized. But now I feel like if I do it, everybody be like, why is she trying to dress like, that's not her generation.

Who is she now?

Oh my gosh. You are— you talk about rhythms and incorporating rhythms of joy into your home and family relationship. I've been talking a lot about rhythms lately because I think we're all out of whack. And frankly, I think we've all been out of whack since 2020. There was a collective out of whack. And you have the seasons where we go back to school, or, you know, we're for the summer, and like, we all have to— but there's been a collective like, "What are we doing and how are we doing it?" And it just feels like— I don't know, it's just a pervasive sense of— and that I've seen it float around social media many times, but Jamie Lee Curtis, "I don't know where I am. I don't know who I am. You know, I don't know what's going on." So, rhythm. What does that look like to incorporate rhythms into your life that work for you? I mean, you talked a little bit about some of the things that you're doing, but the ones that help set you up for loving your life.

So, I first wanna say there's a difference between rhythms and routine. Correct. So, I think when people hear rhythms, they go to, at 8 AM, I blah blah blah. Like, no, because if that's what we're doing, it really doesn't work for everyone all the time, right? Rhythms are built for us. That's why we got seasons. It's like, we're built on rhythms, especially as women. So like, what are we reading into? It's very important. I think of, um, for rhythms too, there's also this disclaimer I want to add. I kind of talk about it as being like a song, where with any song you've got the harmony and the melody, you've got the verses, you've got the chords, but you also have a bridge. You have a bridge. And in a good song, you get a key change.

Like, there's Oh, same song.

Revs ya up. That's right. Same song. Right. You know the lyrics. It's just a little different. Just like get your attention again. So when things shift and change, we joke, we're like, in my family, we're like, it's just a key change. We know how to do this. Let's just do this. Summertime, key change. Mm-hmm. You know, um, back to school, we get a little bit more of an easy verse chorus situation and rhythm. So I'd wanna say that, that this is for everyone regardless of if you're in a moving around situation like us in military or not. But rhythms do afford you the, the capacity and the margin to be able to kind of expect what's expected, to give you some room to work with, to change things, to listen to Holy Spirit. Like, what is it today that we're gonna do that's different than the rest? Um, to be able to make room for play in a busy schedule. You're like, no, we have room for this. Like, this is just a part of the rhythm we do. We rest, we Sabbath. Um, I think of even like on busy days, like there are crockpot days where the meal goes in the crockpot if we're gonna eat at home. Mm-hmm. Um, we have leftover days, we have days where we meet with our small group. Like all these things are kind of a part of our rhythm. And then it gives you an understanding of how people are probably gonna be that day. Like, okay, my boys will need a lot of my attention on Thursdays because Wednesdays are intense for me in work. Um, and vice versa, but it gives me the freedom in the wiggle room. I like that, like the wiggle room. When my husband's gone or deployed or in training, or work is intense for me and I'm traveling, or my boys are going through some kind of developmental change, it gives us a little bit more capacity to handle it and to move through it.

If you really want to focus on rhythms and routines, you need to be committed to writing things down, and I have just the thing to help you do that— my 2026 planner. Y'all, it's available for preorder, and you wanna get it now so that you make sure you get the color that you want. We sold out last year, and you wanna get it now because it's on sale, and you wanna get it now because not only can you get your planner, but we have a special preorder bundle that once the bundle time is over, it's over. The stuff that's in it, some of it will no longer be available, and so the Full Circle Planner is available for purchase right now. Go to thesistercircle.com/shop so you can catch the sale, get your planner, choose your color, save some money, write things down, and live your best life with rhythms and routines. How do you know when a rhythm stops working?

Oh, thank you, thank you. I think that rhythms, um, don't just stop working abruptly. I think you can start sensing changes, which is why being in tune And being awake to your own life and loving it is important because that gives you kind of an understanding before it happens that it's not working. Mm-hmm. And so you're just changing again, one degree rather than an entire 180 because you missed it the entire time. Mm-hmm. So I'd say, um, the whole rhythm doesn't typically stop working. It's just this one little piece stops working. And as long as you can fix that one piece, the whole machine doesn't go down.

What is a re— what's a recent change? Mm-hmm. In the rhythms of your life related to either yourself, your marriage, your kids, or your home? Yeah. That recently you were like, I noticed the shift and I, and this is the change that I made. Mm-hmm.

So 6 months ago, uh, when we were turning the machine on for the book, I had to be a lot more on than I normally am. And weekends just didn't suffice anymore because weekends still, you had birthday parties, you served at church, you got like life, life stuff. Yeah. So you're like, this is not, we can't count on weekends being where we refill. Mm-hmm. So I told my team, I told my publisher, I was like, Thursdays are my Sabbath. New Sabbath for Rachel, Thursday. And they're like, Thursday? Why not Sunday? Right? So Sunday, again, it's still filled with stuff. Mm-hmm. Thursdays, you can actually leave the dishes in the sink. You can actually not go anywhere if you wanted to. And if you did, it's not gonna be as crowded as a weekend. So we'd hit up the zoo, we'd go to the things that felt a little bit more exhale on Thursdays. And it's such a random day too that it also caused me to be like, like, okay, today's the day. And it was an accountability hard thing to, to me too, because this emails were still rolling in, the texts were still needing to be answered. But it was a pause. I choose to give my family my first today. I choose to rest for a second. I choose to take a nap when it does not make sense for a second for me to take a nap. And those small disciplines did give me almost like the gumption to be able to do it again and again. So So that was one where I was like, okay, this is not working. The boys are, you know, you can tell like the behavior starts changing and you're like, they need me more than they have, and I haven't been as present as I normally am. Let's change this. So we started Thursdays. The rest of the rhythm didn't change, Thursdays did. What would happen if I hadn't just changed it to Thursday? I don't know where we'd be today. Probably not in a good spot, you know? And so I don't want our friends to have to get to the tight spot because they didn't make the 1-degree change in the very beginning, or when they felt the shift happening.

So are you a quick noticer of shifts, um, or does it take you a minute to go, wait a minute, it takes me a minute and it takes me a village? Meaning other people have to notice it too that are like, hey, Rach, why do you think you don't notice it? Do you think that that's—

I think I could notice it. Okay. I think, um, so my friend Ashley says this and I'm like, yes, that Put it on a t-shirt. It says, she says, "You can't see the label from inside of the jar." And I think we're dealing with our own clutter. We're dealing with our own things that we can't see things as clearly and accurately as we think we should. 'Cause we've got intentions, we've got ideas, we've got energy.

And we're, yeah, there's a quote that I'm not gonna be able to find and then hopefully I'll be able to, but it's a, we live our life judging from our intentions, but then we judge other people by their actions. Because we can't interpret their intentions. We just see what they do. And then, we act so surprised when other people are looking at us. They're like, "But you did this." And we're like, "But that's not what I meant." But they can't see that. So, it's so good to have people in your life who can say, "I know what you're thinking, but that's not what's actually happening here." So, they're great for reasons where they could be like, "Hey, Rach, that wasn't as big of a deal as you think it was.

Like, I need you to take some deep breaths here." Or, "Hey, that was a bigger deal than I think it was for you.

I think you need to be away." "Relax, because it's not a big deal," or, "No, you need to—" "You need to buckle up and do something." "You need to buckle up and do this here." So, community, like, you've been in the same location now for a while. But what would you say to somebody who's struggling? I mean, you've been in that place where, because you're moving, you've had to build and rebuild community. So, you have that as a first-world experience for yourself. And some people, whether they're moving or whether they just— have been in the same place. They're just struggling to build community. So, since you've had some practice with that, and since it takes community to read the label clearly, since you're in the jar, what counsel would you give to somebody who wants to build community so that— 'cause community is such a big part of loving your life. And you've talked about just having fun and that being with your husband, but also with friends. If someone is like, "Okay, I need that 'cause I may need the accountability from outside of me, but I don't have community," where would you say they start?

I'd say one, don't be afraid to go first. I think starting feels hard when you're waiting for somebody else to give you a little bit to work with. Mm-hmm. But I think being the person that can go and like in 30 seconds of bravery, knock on the door and drop off some store-bought cookies, right? Like write a handwritten note to your neighbor and say, hey, here's who I am. I have two little boys. We're outside often. If you ever see us, please come say hi. Here's my phone number if you need anything. Like, Going first is brave, but is always worth it. That is how I've made most of my friends. There's a story in there about how I literally had my husband roll down the window, stop the vehicle to be able to talk to people on the side of the road when we lived in Oklahoma. Cuz there was nobody there to be friends with.

You're like, I need them to know that I'm friendly and I need to—

Yeah, I'm normal. I promise. Be my friend. That, and I think that all of us are a little bit afraid to go first. Are you an extrovert? I am an, I'm a social Introvert. Yeah, I'm an ambivert. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. I need both. But I think that we, if we just remember that other people are just as, if not more desperate than you to make a friend, it kind of calms us. Mm-hmm. Like, okay, I think we're so afraid of being rejected, we just don't even go, but so is she. So then everyone just waits around on who's gonna go first. So it'd be my first. My second would be like, don't discount who your friend could be. I have some multi-generational friends that are my favorite. Yeah, Jackie Hill Perry says that.

She says you're— you're— she was talking about her mentor. She was like, the people you need in your life may not look the way you think that they should look.

Exactly. And I— with some of my best friends, when I introduced them to like my mom or my mother-in-law, they're like, well, that's not what I thought she would look like.

And I'm like, that's okay.

Uh, older, younger, whatever. And I'm like, okay, I just— I think that we need to stop creating a character in our mind of who she's going to be and ask our friends to fit into that. That's not fair. Yeah. So, I'd say, go first, and kind of go in with no idea. And it's gonna be really cool what happens.

You talked about, you know, writing the book that you needed. And again, I wanna read the title, "Love Your Life, Even When You Don't Like It All the Time." So, me reading between the lines, because not only do I understand what it means to write the book that you needed, And also, because you kind of read between the lines by putting this in there. What have been the— or what is an example of you not liking it and going, "I've gotta learn how to do this"? Why is this the manual that you've written that you needed? What— is the instance that, or instances that were on repeat, do you were like, there's got to be a better way?

Um, SparkNotes, all of it, it'll all kind of add up. One, I didn't see my life looking the way it does today.

What did you think it would be?

Thought I would— so I lost my dad in high school through a random accident. Thought I'd have him my whole life, had always imagined him walking me down the aisle and being a grandfather. Now to this day, I don't have that luxury. Like, I don't know what that's like. And so I grieve that, and every day the grief looks a little different. So there's that. I didn't think I'd be a military spouse. I'm just gonna be so for real with you. We got married, he was in ministry.

He had a quarter life— oh, he flipped on you.

He had a quarter life crisis and decided he wanted—

is quarter life crisis a thing?

It's a thing. It's a thing. It's a thing. Oh, it was a thing. And so he was not a pilot when we got married. He was not even interested. Well, he was, but I didn't know he was interested in airplanes. So he became a pilot. He joined the military. Didn't know that that's what our lifestyle was gonna look like. I thought maybe. A 9 to 5 and we get to, you know, like I have no, I had no idea. Um, we have lost babies and I never imagined my life to include the loss after I had already been through a loss. I thought I paid my dues like that. I get so complex that I'm like, I love the life I have, but I think that I would've tucked tail and ran if I knew what it was gonna be. And so praise God, we don't have the option to know. Um, and so kind of living in that tension of, oh, I don't love it, it's like that, all of this. And God's like, well, good, because this isn't home forever. But then also learning what abundance looks like, the other half of the story, that's like, but we still could— we could still love what we have and have this holy discontent while we also are so grateful for what we do. It's like a tension that we are living in every day, this side of heaven. And it's going to it's going to be so cool one day when it all gets sorted out and we get all the answers we need, but we don't get those today. So what do we do with that? I don't think we have to sit there and stay there forever. And so I had— this was for me like 7 years ago when we were sitting in Oklahoma fresh off of a miscarriage, moved to a new city with absolutely no one for my husband's military training. I didn't know we were going to be doing with family thousands of miles away, had no friends, felt so misunderstood. And I, I was like, this, there, this has to work. Like, I can't just survive for the rest of my life. This, there's, this can't be what that's about. And what was your first step?

Um, I tried, there's always a first step.

I tried to find a book. I know if that sounds cheesy, I really did. You were like, I need help.

I'm gonna browse through Barnes Noble.

A lot. And a lot of them do. And I read my Bible and I think I had the lens, the context again of like, figuring out grief and thinking that that was it. But now again, like, I got really good at grief and I was like, it's still not really— hmm. And I feel like the Lord had to be like, yeah, it's because there's a whole other half of the story. It's like, you can grieve what you don't have, and then you can also lean into what you do. And so this is the leaning into what you do. So not discounting what's hard. I'm not asking— and so did you find a book? I found a few that pieced together that helped a little bit. I think I needed something that was so direct and left a lot of room for interpretation. So a lot of this, it's not research heavy. It's not— it does have scripture and it's biblically based, but a lot of it's just stories. Like, this is what I've been through. Take what you need, leave what you don't. And, um, it's lots of—

so you basically wrote the book that you needed.

I did. Yeah.

And, you know, and I have to imagine that there are books, but, you know, we And I love the beauty that books give us to be mentored by people that we may never meet. But you only find the books that are on the shelves or that Amazon serves up to you. And everybody, you know, and everything has a shelf life. And so, somebody has been in your shoes before that may have even written a book about it, but you didn't have a chance to know what that book is. And so, you're going on your search, you don't find it, and so you say, "Well." I'll bring something up to the top. You were number one on Amazon a couple of days. That's fun. And somebody, because of that, goes, "Oh, yeah, I listen to her podcast. Oh, yeah, I need that now." 'Cause it serves, you know, as a— I think it's in Acts where it says that David served the purposes of his generation. That's so good. Like, you know, there's nothing new under the sun. But when we are willing to say, "Well, this is what I needed. Let me create what I need," it blesses in that season, in that generation, a group of other people.

And you say it with your own—

And you say it with your own— Spunk. That's right. Chapter 5, "Have you ever moved too fast in life to try to avoid pain, get through the season that you're in, or arrive at the next best thing? Like a cartoon, everything is fuzzy in your peripheral vision as it whooshes past you. And the only thing you have eyes on is the prize you've labeled as the trophy to win in life. It's funny how our minds, bodies, and souls are so intertwined that when one of them eventually screams for help, "The others have to pay attention. You have a meltdown, burst into tears, lose your cool on someone, or if you're like me, your body starts to shut down." Sometimes, I think that we don't realize that we're not living a life we love, 'cause we're not really paying attention to our bodies, and everything is interconnected. How does your body talk to you when something's off? I get so sick.

So bad. Like, literally sick? Literally sick. Um, and now it's interesting, I work on offense, not defense. We've learned a lot here. Yes. So I'm taking care of my body and not just allowing it to scream at me. So I'm much more in tune and I'm noticing more, which is so good. But before, I just would get sick. Like, I, I, at one point I talked in there, I had COVID pneumonia and the flu all at once. Nuts. My body was like, Rachel, we cannot handle this, we can't carry this, you're not treating us well in the middle of this. Like like we have to shut down. Um, and I— it is so fascinating how The Body Keeps the Score, another great book, another great book.

Very good.

And if you listen to what your body's trying to tell you, like, we have been created so like on purpose and down to the bones, literally, to be able to tell us kind of like what we need and what we don't need. And so I've noticed now I think going slow, doing some check-ins, even if you're a schedule girl, even build it into your schedule. You know, like, okay, I'm gonna take a moment, take 30 seconds, and actually like do a full body scan. Like, how are we? Oh wow, I was holding a lot of tension in my shoulders. Oh wait, this is the first time I've relaxed my forehead all day long, right? Like those kinds of things. Yeah. Um, they do speak to us. It's a super kind way that the Lord's like, okay, you're You are a soul living in a shell. It's like, keep the shell well so that you can carry through.

So last 2 weeks, last 2 weeks you've launched this book. Yeah. All the exciting things that go with that. Yeah. What has your body been telling you the last couple of weeks?

Electrolytes. Like, drink more water. I have taken naps when my boys take naps. Like, when they're like, sleep when the baby sleeps.

And like, when people tell you that, you're like, how in the world am I supposed to do that? And then you realize, just do it. Just sleep when the baby sleeps. Sleep. Yeah.

Like shut your mind down and off. Yeah. Um, I literally tell my people, I'm like, Thursdays are still a thing. Okay. So like I'm here on a Thursday, which is really sweet and fun.

I'm traveling. It's kind of sabbathy though.

It is sabbathy. I love this couch in this moment. It is. Um, I still try to keep the rosés a thing. Um, I'm crunchy. I go to the chiropractor. She gets my nervous system. You're crunchy. All back in. Okay. I'm, I'm chewy.

You're chewy. I'm not crunchy. Okay. That's fair.

I'm like a little— okay, what do they call it? Scrunchie. Yeah.

There's a whole nother word that, that has come up that I was like, this is the new word for crunchy.

But anyway, I'm like, not all in. There's still some things that I'm like, no, we'll still be doing this and not to be doing that. Thank you very much. Yes. But I do go to the chiropractor.

Oh, we love our chiropractor. But you didn't cloth diaper your kids. Oh, what? No, ma'am. See, that's the thing.

They're like, save the planet. And I'm like, but you also—

save my sanity.

You also eat Taco Bell and throw away that fast food. Anyways, I digress. Fast. Yeah, I'm scrunchy. Okay. But yeah, and, um, and also being careful of like when I'm on the road, when I am traveling, like not just grabbing what's easy but grabbing what's good. And, um, we love french fries, but we also need salmon, you know.

So your body is saying, this is amazing, go hard, go fast, but go well.

Go well. Yes. And pay attention. Okay. One thing my friend Heather Adams, she's amazing, she said to me, she's like, Rachel, you're thoroughbred. Which means I forget what kind of horse she said I was. She said I was a horse. And she said there's some horses that can race medium speed but lots of laps, and that's what makes them a winner. And then there's one horse that's like my personality, which is we go hard, fast. 0-60. That's it. But we can only do one lap before we get hurt. And so she's like, you need to be careful. You're not asking other people to run at your pace and you make sure that your pace is good for one lap and no more. And so that's kind of been like a good thing for my, for my life to be like, oh, I think I'm running a wrong pace right now. That's so good. Um, and again, people, Heather, right? My friends Carla and Abby that are like, girl, you've been at the office too much. You need to go home and feed your family. I'm like, you're right, I do. Or my home group, it's like, hey, let's, you know, we do confession once a month and we're actually able to talk about sin and stuff and hard thoughts and all of that's necessary to create like the whole version of who Rachel and who Chrystal Hurst and our friends watching need to be. And so I'd say, yeah, like being awake, being in tune. Yeah. Being aware, noticing, being aware. And we can't do that if we're just trying to make it through whatever we're watching.

But you can do that and still be in the middle of loving the life that you have.

Oh, I can, I can say it.

That's so great. That's so great. Well, thanks for coming to Dallas, girl, and sitting with me on the couch. Oh my gosh.

And being cute. My life The first is 1 Thessalonians 2:8. It says, I was delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God, but my life as well, because you've become so dear to me. And so I feel like you do that really well too. Like, you're so good at sharing your life with people and being generous with wisdom and time. And so I want to honor you for that too. Thank you. It's fun to have friends that share that.

Listen, you got a friend. You've got a friend in me. Come on, one more time. You've got a friend in me. Come on. Love it. I got boys.

So, what did you— Jesse in Toy Story. I know. I know you got boys.

You understand it. Yeah, more than I would think. Listen, y'all, go get it. Love your life. And if you're in the middle of the mundane, you can still find joy. And if you don't have it, then you can go create it. Mm-hmm. That's right. You can go create it. It's a gift. You got Jesus. Go get some friends. Listen to her podcast. Real Talk, Rachel Autry. So sweet.

Thanks for coming. Thank you for having me.

Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for coming.