God Wastes Nothing with Kim Cash Tate

Y'all, I have some fave people in my life, and sometimes I get to share them with you. And I have shared my guest today a few times in other capacities. She has joined me at the Sister Circle Retreat back in 2019. We are geeky girls, we're writer girls, we are homeschooling moms, and I'm so glad to have the opportunity to share her with you on the podcast today. The thing is, sometimes y'all know I bring people on because they are working on a project, releasing something into the world, or, you know, they, they're, uh, they've got a famous name and we're just like, oh good, Chrystal Hurst gets to talk to them. And sometimes, and y'all tell me, sometimes you'll say, where did you get this person from? I didn't necessarily know this person was. Some of y'all know who Kim Cash Tate is. I know you know because y'all, y'all tell me you know. Some of y'all have never heard of her, but trust me, after my conversation with Kim today, you will be so glad I brought her on to meet you. So welcome, Kim, to the podcast.

Thank you, Chrystal Hurst. It's so good to be here. I just feel like I'm here chatting with my girlfriend. So that's it.

That's it. The podcast basically is a great opportunity for me to put girlfriend conversations in my workday.

Yes, yes, I love that.

Schedule it. I could schedule it that way. So I feel like Kim has lived a lot of life and, um, a lot of different seasons. And I think what's really cool is, you know, 6 months ago, a year ago, I would have brought you on to talk about a season And yes, now we've shifted from that season. Um, so yes, so even in our conversation today, like, just, um, getting the benefit and the wisdom of the season that you're in as you look back to the seasons that you've been through where God has brought you. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna skip through the forest and just drop some titles, and then I'd love for you to just kind of walk us through like your, the, your life, just to give us a taste of what, what you've done in these different seasons. So I know you as a Bible teacher. I know you as an author. I know you as a recording artist. I know you as a homeschool mom. I know you as a wife to a, uh, a man in high academic positions. Uh, I, and I know you like to work out. I know you, I know you look, you are a hair aficionado. I know you are a YouTube geek. I know because we talked about, I had to call you when I was trying to figure some things out. And I probably have left off a few things, but like, you've lived such an, to me, an exciting life. And when I say exciting, I think sometimes people think exciting means big, out loud, public, and even well-known. But when I say excited, I just mean God has invited you into adventure after adventure after adventure. And you have just shown up for them. Um, and people, I like, and I'm like, how did she do that? How did she end up doing this? And you're like, right, God opened the door, right?

And I walked through it.

The only answer. So can you kind of take us through just kind of who you've been in your various seasons and, uh, help us to get to know you a little better?

Well, you know, you summed it up because it has been adventure after adventure, and it's always been what I didn't expect and what I didn't seek. And it's been a surprise to me because really my life was supposed to be me just being an attorney, and I was just supposed to practice law until I forgot about that part. I was just supposed to practice law. Um, I went to law school, I was, I was working at a law firm, private practice, and but I, um, came to know the Lord at 27. So that was my plan, and, um, I just wanted to make money. That's why I chose law. And, um, and, you know, I— but the Lord got a hold of me at 27 because we had moved to Madison. My husband, you mentioned, in academics, in academia, he had his first position was at UW-Madison. So that's what took us to Madison. But I hated it, and I'm from the DC area, and it was just way, way too everything extreme for me. And I just said, I, I just can't stand this. And I complained all the time, but that's what God used to draw me. So I was saved in Madison at 27, and when we had our first two kids, um, a few years later, that's when I was moved to leave the practice of law and be a stay-at-home mom, which I thought I would never do. But by this time, I had published a book, so God had kind of put me on this path to writing. And, um, he had me start with writing a memoir about my spiritual journey. And so I thought I was just going to be writing at this point. It was, you know, God will do a bait and switch. So he's like, leave the practice of law. And I'm thinking, okay, cool, I'm focusing on writing now. No, I had toddlers. And he said, you're gonna, you're gonna learn how to be a stay-at-home mom. So, um, so I was a stay-at-home mom. This is totally new, but it was time, a time that I now had to dive into the word of God deeply. Um, so that season, um, I'm not practicing anymore. I was a litigator, so I was working evenings, weekends, and, you know, never had a lot of time. But now I have all the time, and so I'm diving deep into the word, and I'm spending, um, every day when kids are napping, I'm getting my coffee and I'm doing inductive studies. So that was, uh, that was when that season started of just going deep in the word. I knew God was calling me to teach the word, and I thought I would just do the traditional teaching of the word where you just, you know, and I, and I, I did. I was, I was, I would teach at women's ministry. I was doing things like that. But I had an opportunity, like, I had an agent who said, um, well, based on your memoir, I think you should think about writing fiction. And, um, and I said, oh no, no, fiction's not my thing. So I just, I'm focused on like, because I know I'm called to teach the word. I'm like, fiction? No, I don't even read fiction. I'm just— no. And a couple years later, the Lord put a story in my mind. He just downloaded it. I knew it was God. And I said, are you serious, Lord? Fiction? And then that started a path of— now by this time I'm homeschooling, which I never wanted to do. I prayed God would never call me to homeschool. And we, we moved to St. Louis. Uh, we were in Dallas for a couple of years, um, and then we moved to St. Louis. And so my kids are 6 and 4. We start homeschooling. That's a long story. We start homeschooling. Um, anyway, And so, but then he puts this story in my mind and I'm like, how do I have time to write fiction? I— you, you called me to homeschool, which I didn't want to do, and now I have no time to write fiction. But yeah, he took those few hours in the morning. I started writing my first novel. I didn't know if it would do anything. I didn't know if it was trash. I didn't know. I just— because I was just relying on the Holy Spirit just to write. See, that's the thing, everything that God has called me to do, I have never thought about doing. You know, most people who write novels have dreamed of writing novels. They have, they have their writer's circle, they go to conferences. I— I had none of that. Never been to a conference, never had a writer circle. It was just the Holy Spirit teaching me how to write. And, um, but the surprise was that I ended up putting a Bible study in the novel. I didn't know I could do that. And the Lord moved me to build the whole thing around a study of Ephesians, with this character going through Ephesians and needing to know who she was in Christ, and her life being changed by that. And that became my first novel, Heavenly Places. And so um, then I was signed to Thomas Nelson, and it just became this whole journey of writing. So I'm like, okay, well, fiction, that's what I do. I write fiction. You know how you want to get the one path and you just want to just keep going down there? But like, that's what I do. So I'm still homeschooling, I'm writing fiction. I, I had a little stint there while I was speaking with women of faith. That's enough. That's a long story. Um, but I— that, that went to the side. And then, and then Um, but I'm still homeschooling, and— but I start YouTube, which I didn't— I just— okay, so I'm on my third big chop right now. When I was on my second big chop, the Lord moved me to start my YouTube channel because I was having this whole thing. When I got my first big chop, there was no YouTube. And, you know, you remember when you could just cut your hair and there was no— and nobody knew to worry about what you look like? Nobody knew. You could just do your own thing. In your own space at home. No. So the second big chop, I was actually, um, I wanted to chop my hair, but I was like, well, what am I going to do? I mean, I'm on social media now, and how's that going to look? I was really obsessing about this, and the Lord said, start a YouTube channel and let people know how you're going through all this, about worrying about how you're looking, dealing with, dealing with what you're going to look like in your image. I was like, okay, are you serious? So that's how my YouTube—

tell them what you're doing and how it's affecting on you on the inside, like, live.

Exactly. Take them through this journey. So I I literally took people through that journey starting my YouTube channel. So that, um, uh, so I've been doing that for like 10 years on YouTube. Not, not that, but teaching, doing Bible studies. YouTube became a thing. I'm still writing novels. But really, about 5 years ago, um, he changed up my ministry and it became music and film. So again, just out of nowhere, because my daughter was graduating, uh my daughter, I have a son and a daughter, she is the youngest, she was graduating from our homeschool, so look how much time has passed. I have actually homeschooled my kids through high school and the second one is graduating and I'm thinking, oh good, good, I get to focus on fiction full-time now. I get to really dive in, I can pump out the novels, I can do that, do some YouTube on the side, but fiction is the main thing. I'm in a series, I can focus on that. And the Lord said, create a web series. I'm like, what is a web series? I literally— you know how you can hear God say something so clearly but you don't know what he's talking about? Like, I knew he said create a web series. I had to Google what is a web series. What is a web series? And I'm Googling, I'm like, what? That became a whole journey to where now We put out 3 seasons of that web series, 7 episodes each. He had me acting in it. That was a whole thing. Lord, I don't act. Why you want me to be on here and embarrass myself? Um, it came to singing. So now I have 3 soundtracks, and one was nominated for an Indie Series Award, and one went through— went on Billboard gospel charts, went up the charts. It's like all these things that I would have never imagined No, no, Chrystal, I'm 50 at this point. This is what I need people to understand. I'm 50 at this point, starting down a track of singer-songwriter. Are you serious, Lord? Like, everything— every time God brings something forth, I'm like, that's my first line. Are you serious, Lord? Like, so that became a thing. But the latest thing was So right when he starts with the, the web series, and that's, you know, people are tuning into that, and the music, and, and it's all Cling, because I wrote a book called Cling: Choosing a Lifestyle of Intimacy with God. They came out in 2017 with Our Daily Bread Ministries. And so that became— because Cling, I, I'll just pause and just say, Cling is just something that was between me and God. From me, those early days when my kids were toddlers and I was able to clinging to him And I, and I was just going from Genesis and book to book and got to Deuteronomy and saw cling, um, cling to him. And so it just became my prayer, Lord, help me to cling to you. And it was just between me and God for 15 years. I wasn't ever going to write a book about it. And, um, but he put it on my heart to do that. So cling then became my ministry after that book came out. And I was started doing cling Bible studies, and the series was cling, cling series. And the music is all cling about intimacy with God and different ways. And, um, so that became my ministry. So now, like I said, my daughter's graduated, and I'm like, this is my season to— now that the series— he moved me into the series. I thought it would be fiction, but the series and the music— and so we had all these plans. Of course, like everybody, COVID hit in those plans. We had dates scheduled for music, we had conferences, we had all these things, and COVID hit. But during COVID about it. Well, first, during COVID my husband got a job position at University of South Carolina as provost, which is the number 2 person at the university. He was coming back and forth between, uh, South Carolina, St. Louis. It was COVID, everything was shut down. But right when we were about to move to South Carolina, he got an offer to be president at LSU. So for 2 years now, we've been at LSU. But coming down here, um, right when you're coming out of COVID and you're ready to finally soar with the freedom of both of my kids doing their own thing, and you know, you have sacrificed all these years with the homeschooling and all of that, and it's my time now. Now, you know, you're like, it's my time. I am sacrificing down here, and I'm, you know, everybody's calling me First Lady, and I'm like, what does all this mean? Like, like, they ain't paying me, but all of a sudden I have a job. Yes, all of a sudden I clearly have a job, an unpaid position, and I'm like, all these expectations and obligations. And when we started We're right here at football season and I found out what that was like. That's everything at LSU. So we have, we don't even get to watch the home games. We're entertaining donors and we're up in the suite doing this and that. Like it's a job. It's a job. And after a few months of that, I was like, okay, Lord, I thought.

And that is the problem right there.

When we say, but Lord, I thought my season to be able to do all the things that— because Chrystal, at this point, and I know you can appreciate this, I had speaking engagements that I could not keep. I was able to keep a couple of them, yeah, but I got to the point now I say no to every speaking engagement because I can't do it. I can't do it. Like, my husband would say, well, I mean, you could go and do that or that, but every time I have something scheduled that I have scheduled on ministry-wise, there's a conflict. Every time there's a conflict. And it's like, a lot of them are big things. And, um, I got to the point— so I was struggling so much that at the end of year one Um, I just went to God and I was just like, Lord, you're gonna have to just— like, I can't be just conflicted because, like, when you're on the football field on a Saturday watching a game and you're like, I could actually be at a conference teaching the word, but I'm on a football field? Really? What is happening right now? Like, Lord, you're gonna have to help me. Like, what because I'm like, I know you would not call different seasons— like, they can't be conflicting. So you're gonna have to deal with, with my heart and where I need to be. And I can't have the inner struggle because it's not that I wasn't supporting— I was fully supporting him, but I just had to struggle inside. So, um, I just, I just— the Lord said, lay aside ministry as you know it. And lean into LSU. Just lean into it. Just stop the struggle. The struggle is you trying to act like your time of sacrifice is over. Well, I think you're in Christ and it's a life of sacrifice.

So you just made some people mad. They were like, uh, mad.

I was like, you thought you'd get to a season where you no longer had to sacrifice? Who told you that?

So wow, wow.

You know, when you feel like God has called you to things and you're doing it for him, and yeah, like, it's not like I was trying to just do frivolous things. I was talking about ministry, but he said lay it aside. So I have not published a novel in 2 years, 2 and a half.

How many do you have? How many novels or how many books?

Uh, I have 11, 11 or 12 books, 10 novels, I think.

Okay, I think you said earlier before we started talking, you're like, for the first time in 20 years you're not working on a writing project, correct?

For the first time in 20 years, I was always writing. And, and as I said, this was supposed to be a season where I would be putting out more books than ever. Yeah, because of the time that I supposedly thought I'd had. So, um, so there's no books. I had to give an advance back for two Bible studies that I was supposed to be writing.

See, that's real. People don't know. So let me tell you something. People think— just sidebar— people think, okay, great, I get a deal with a publishing company and they're going to give me— first of all, they think you're going to get it. They think they're going to get a huge advance. Those days are gone. And then the second thing is, um, they forget that they then have to actually write the book.

Yes. And that's like real.

There have been people where life changes and it's like, you know, oops, like, y'all loan me this money up front, so I ain't writing this book. I've actually tried multiple times to give the last advance back to my publisher. It's sitting there over to the side. I haven't spent it. I'm like, you know what, never mind. And they're like, no, keep it. But I tried. And one of my girlfriends said, she said, yeah, I wanted to give my advance back, but I kept it too long and I'd already paid taxes on it. So then I just had to write the book. But it is, life changes.

And when you can edit it, it's amazing. I have never had that happen to me where the grace was not there to write, nor the time, nor anything else. I've never had that happen to me.

And so what does that mean when you say the grace was not there to write? What, what?

I know what it's like, like from, from the first time, from the first thing God called me to write, the first book. I know when God has given me grace to write, like I get into a zone and yes, I don't know what— like I, I could sit there one minute and have no idea where I'm supposed to go with this, especially with fiction. I don't know what, what, what this character's journey is. I don't know what's— and then the next moment it all just downloads and I'm in a zone and I just, I can't keep up now fast enough. I'm trying to type.

It's like you're taking dictation.

Exactly. That is what my writing life has been like. And, um, so with these and, and Bible studies, I mean, that's what I do. I'm always in the Bible and doing YouTube studies. That's never been an issue. So I get in this period where I can't get into the writing, and I'm— they're giving me extensions and extensions, and I get a little bit done, and then I get sidetracked over here with obligations and this, and I just can't get in a zone and focus. And, um, and so after praying with the Lord and, and him just saying, lay aside ministry, I just said— I said, I have a contract. I have a contract. Oh, you know I got a contract, right? And, um, I just said, this is, this is a season I did not anticipate at all. But do you want me to get into this year and how God showed up?

Yes, let's do it.

So, um, so he tells me that, and that was kind of like last summer. And so I said, okay, so this is my life. Um, so we go into football season and we do all that, and, um, and we go to every game, whether it's— we go to the away games as well. So every weekend is football. And then we ended up going to the SEC championship game. So, so football really didn't end until January. So we're doing that. Um, uh, my favorite sport is gymnastics, so that starts in January. So I'm thinking, I'll, you know, I'll just have fun with gymnastics and we're doing gymnastics. But along the way, we also started, um, we, we go to women's basketball games here, and, um, and Bill always has loved basketball, so we were going to the basketball games, home games. And when the— when this year started, um, Bill had— he had neck surgery. He had a problem with his neck. And so I actually was going to a couple of the games by myself, just showing up. He couldn't be there. And they played South Carolina, I think that was February. And because he had come from South Carolina, they were— they played at South Carolina, they were going there. So we said, uh, we'll go. To that game and travel with the team. So that was our first time traveling with the team. And so we traveled with them, we fly out there, and so we're part of the whole contingent. We're with the team at the hotel, we're with the team on the bus, we're going— I start— I was going to practices with the team, and so I was getting to know them better because you're with them all the time. And, um, they lost that game, but because of traveling with them, I think it was like the next couple of weeks or so was the SEC tournament in Greenville, South Carolina, and we went to that. So now mind you, if I had been focused on writing and other things in ministry, I would not have been traveling with the team. And, um, but I now— what, what else did I have to do? So I'm traveling with the team. So I go to the I go to the tournament, but so I'm noticing now at that tournament, we made it past the first round and I'm— the way they set it up, everybody, we have our meals together. We're there at breakfast, we're there a lot of times at lunch, or they might do lunch on your own, but we're there for dinner, we're there for— we're just always gathered. And I'm noticing, like, I'm getting to know members of the team better. And, um, I'm— somebody says, can you pray for me before the game? And then somebody is talking to me about, um, has a question about the Bible, and they just come to me, and I'm like, what is— you know, this is interesting. So I just begin to pray for them more and, um, and just interact more and just always giving everybody a hug and just, you know, just— I just had a heart for them that was, that was growing. And, um, we get to the championship game and we actually win, and we're on the court, and it's just, um, such a surreal moment that they made it to the championship, but that God made me part of that journey and to be praying with them. And I mean, right before one of the players went on the court for the championship game, she's like walking to the court and she sees me, um, back by the locker room. She comes back, she turns and comes back grabs my hand and says, can you walk with me and pray with me? And I'm— so I'm praying with her as she's headed to the court, and, and I, and I see his hand on all of them, like, because they had not played their best through that tournament. There were some games that I don't know how it was— we shouldn't have made— we shouldn't have won. And I saw everybody on fire that night, which is what I've been praying for. So I just saw God showing up in so many ways, um, and, and then at the end of the season Um, I became the chaplain of the team, so I'm now the team chaplain official.

Now you have a job with a title, with a title that's related to you directly.

It's still unpaid, but that's fine. But no, I'm just— so I just saw, you know, with God telling me to lay aside ministry as I knew it and all the struggle I had the first year and everything being football, football, football, football, football, which was no fun because again, I like football, but I couldn't even watch the game. I'm entertaining donors. But he did something totally different with women, the women's basketball program. So last week I was at the basketball camp. Like, why am I at the women's basketball camp? I'm like, with all the young people who like coming to show up for camp and I'm helping out with this and that. Like, that's what I'm doing. But it's been something where I could definitely say, God did this. I did not plan this. And, um, so God is faithful. He's faithful.

Hey y'all, I'm having such a great time talking to my friend Kim Cash Tate right now. She is a treasure trove of wisdom, and also her life has just been a lot in the best way. It's like a wild ride. I've had my own share of wild rides in my life, and I thought I'd just take a break for just a second to tell you a little something about me and to tell you about something that I have that can help you. So in my 20s, I was a money person, institutional money management, CPA, investments, all of that. Single parent, all of that, making big money, excited about it too. In my 30s, I was a stay-at-home mom, broke, needed affirmation, but I loved being with my children and changing diapers. In my 40s, I was asked to come alongside my father and write a book. Wasn't planning on that. That opened doors to me speaking and writing in my late 40s and early 50s. I have been all about creating the inner circle. The reason why is if you rewind in my life back to my 20s and 30s and early 40s, I needed so badly to have the affirmation and the, the encouragement from women further along than me who could say, girl, keep going, you're doing okay. I needed community and connection and fellowship with other women who were in my life season. I needed teaching. I needed accountability. I needed education. I needed equipping. And so the very thing that I needed during my wild ride seasons is the very thing that I created in the Inner Circle. So now what I do in the Inner Circle is create content and the community to help you focus in on your life, to pay attention to your life, and to learn how to go with the wild ride. Because listen, usually when God is allowing you to be in a wild ride season of your life, it's because he is building something in you. It is an invitation for you to grow, for you to be challenged, for you to develop. And what I've learned in my wild seasons is every time it felt crazy, I wanted to quit, I wanted to give up, I wanted to say, you know what, it must be me. And all I needed to know was to keep going. All I needed to know was information, practical wisdom that came from places that, uh, value God, value faith to help me to live my life well. And I got that. I hunted it down and I got it, but I realized everyone doesn't have that. So the purpose and the point of the Inner Circle is to provide what you need in those wild ride seasons. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad that you're listening or watching this episode. And I hope that it's giving you something you need to get you through the season that you're in. But if you want more, I would love for you to join me. Simply go to thesisterscircle.com/innercircle. I'd love to have you join us. All right, y'all, let's get back to the episode. I know one of the things that you have learned just as you've gone through these different seasons of your life, and even now as the first lady of LSU and now the chaplain of the women's basketball team, is Yes, seasons change, but, you know, as you said, a part of being connected and committed to God is that he will always have us in— I mean, we, we use the word suffering, but we will always be in a season of having to surrender something.

Yes.

And then when we master the surrender of one thing, then it's usually time for the season to change. And as you were talking, I was thinking You know, cling was your thing with God for 15 years. It was not a public thing, it was a hidden thing. And it's almost like if your prayer, if my prayer, if our prayer is to truly get closer to God, then anything that we hold in our hands that would keep us from being as close as possible has to be surrendered. And sometimes it's even the things that he, he put in our hands. He said, hold this for a minute, hold this for a minute, you know. And then he's like, all right, now let me take that, that, that time, that's over. You learn this. Come a little closer. Let me put something else in your hands. Um, but I know you talk about, you know, the laying aside of your ministry and that happening after you've had seasons upon seasons upon seasons of waiting, waiting, waiting for— like, living full in the season you're in. I think that's the good thing that you've done, because a lot of people, while they're waiting, they don't live in the season. Like, you've lived in the seasons you're in, but you've always been waiting for this opportunity to really lean in, and then the season opens up, but it's not for that purpose.

Yeah.

Um, what have you learned about waiting? Or waiting well.

What I have learned about waiting— well, you made the first good point that there's so much that you can do in the waiting. So for me, waiting— I, I knew that there were things I was waiting for when my kids graduated and I could do in my mind more fully, um, but in that waiting time it was what can I do here? What can I— so I'm homeschooling, I can do YouTube from home, I can write from home. I might not have hours and hours like some of my author friends that just devote to writing all day, but I have a chunk of time in the morning I can use, and so I'm going to use that. And, and so what I learned in the waiting is that God will bless that time. He will multiply your time. You think you don't have much time because you're with your kids and you're doing this and that, he'll multiply that time. He'll make you productive in that time. And he will, um, he will cause you to prosper in that season. But the main thing I've learned about waiting is you never have to wait to cling to God. You never have to wait to grow in intimacy with the Lord. And so, and often that's what the waiting season is about anyway, is that God wants you to draw you closer And to know that you're not— that thing that you're waiting for is— doesn't even compare to what you can have now with the Lord. And so, um, that is even more so now for me. Um, I'm seeing the fruit of that. And so when you get to that thing that you thought you were waiting for and actually it's not even a thing, it's not even what you thought with the Lord though, tremendously, because you never stop clinging to him. And, and you can now even hear his voice to say, that's actually not what we're doing right now, we're doing this.

Well, I wanted to ask you about that too, because you said you heard the Lord say, lean into Leah, to LSU. And sometimes, not all the time, but often when I say, okay, you know, I sense the Lord, or I heard the Lord say or, you know, I just, I just knew that God was telling me. I can remember what that knowing looked like. Like sometimes it's a moment in time. It is truly that still small voice. Sometimes it's just the second or third confirmation on something I was thinking, kind of, sort of, and the repetition on a podcast or a sermon or Bible study. Sometimes I'm driving and it's just like, bam, do this. So, yes. What did that one look like?

And then just lean into—

what have you learned about— what did that knowing come when God said that to you? What, what did that look like? And then just in general, what would you tell someone? Because that's a question I hear and, and see a lot where people are like, well, how can I know? How can I know what God wants me to do? How can I know if that's God's voice or if that's me talking? You know, like just telling the difference. So that example, and then any general counsel you give to somebody who wants to know how to lean into God's voice.

For me, I have been praying for the Lord to show me what to do, and I had that struggle that I spoke of. And there was just— I remember a day I was in my kitchen, and, um, it really was just, um, lay it aside. I just, I just— this thought came into my mind, lay it aside. And was led— there was a verse that was put on my heart at that time about preferring, preferring, preferring the other. I think it's in Philippians, but I did a YouTube video about it if anybody's wondering. It's on my— I talk about it more fully on my YouTube channel, Preferring My Husband's Season Over Mine. But, um, I, um, so I, I just heard that lay aside, and, and this verse came to mind that I immediately— and you know it's God when you're like running from the kitchen to the office to look up the verse and say, what, what does that verse say about preferring? And often we think about preferring others more highly than yourself, we're thinking members of the body of Christ, not your husband. He ain't supposed to be one of those people in the body of Christ. That's your friend, like, that's at church, and that's—

he doesn't count.

That's when they need something and you like— but I knew, I knew what God was saying to me, and to lean into LSU, it was just The thought— the way I know God is speaking in a moment is, um, I call it a download, but it's often there's this thought too that is nothing like what I've been thinking. And so when I get this download and it makes me go, oh my gosh, you know, like you can say that pause, like, oh, it didn't come from you, and you know that's not what you were thinking about the situation, and that's not I wasn't thinking about leaning into LMU. I was trying to figure out how I could do what I needed to do. So in those moments, or like when he says create a web series, you're like, that's not your thought. How can that be your thought? Or when I've said fiction is not my thing and then a whole story gets downloaded. So I always tell people, pay attention to the thoughts that come into your head. Especially if you've been praying about something. Pay attention to, um, the Holy Spirit is with us. He makes God's thoughts known to us, and he's gonna— he often does that through our own thoughts. And, and then you will often get a confirmation from here or there. But if you just pay attention, if you're spending time with the Lord and you're spending time in his word and you are seeking him, he will be faithful to make his thoughts known to you. And I told you before this, um, before we got started, that, um, that I just love your dad, and I love how much he talks about intimacy with God. And I have so many, so many of his messages downloaded where he talks about that, about God's thoughts becoming our thoughts, and And so when I listen to him, I'm like, I knew I wasn't crazy. I know this is the Holy Spirit. But it's so good to get— that's the kind of confirmation I'm talking about. Like, so you know what the Holy Spirit is giving you, and then you hear a sermon speaking right on that point. It's like, see, see, there it is, there it is. And so it just, it just gives you the faith to trust, you know what I'm saying? It gives you the faith to trust that yes, if I'm praying about something, if I'm seeking the Lord or if he just wants to redirect me and I'm not even seeking him about that, because that has happened many times as well, that he will speak. That we have his Holy Spirit, and he says, I will counsel you with my eye upon you. I will direct you in the way you should go. And often he does that through thoughts that come into your mind.

Yeah, and I mean, and you know, you spelled it out. If you're praying, if you're reading the word if you are seeking him, he will be faithful because his thoughts are not our thoughts.

Yes.

And often that's a good indicator. It's not a thought you'd think. It's not one you want to think.

Yeah.

Um, it does seem that it came from somewhere else. Well, it probably, it probably did. Um, I know that you, uh, have been on YouTube for a while, and I went and checked out the channel, and I know that there were seasons where you were there regularly, on cue, on time. Uh, with your weekly release. And because my first thought was when I was getting ready to talk, she was like, okay, she's still doing YouTube with all this. And it looks like you've just— you do it as you can. Is that kind of the season that you're in?

Yes. Um, earlier this year I started doing vlogs. Um, yeah, so that was new for me because, um, I was— I started doing TikToks actually last year. So I was focusing on TikTok and just doing little things from life.

So you got yourself a TikTok, huh?

I have a TikTok. And, and I got— and so I got to the point where I would just be wherever around town and people would say, I'm following you on TikTok, I'm seeing this. I'm like, really? And I was just like— and so I started doing more of just life at LSU on TikTok. And, um, and I realized, I said, you know what, people on YouTube, because I think I made a statement or something on YouTube about referring to LSU. And I'm like, nobody on YouTube even knows I'm at LSU. They don't know my life. They only know my life on TikTok and Instagram. So I said I was just moved to start vlogging and just showing my life here now. And so I started doing that. And so my last video was about the LSU women's basketball journey. So I guess that was 2 months ago. So yeah, I just have not had time to be regular on YouTube, but I do— I'm doing something different now with the vlogs. It's just a matter of when I'll have time to get them together.

Well, I think that that's important too, because, you know, a part of waiting well— we were talking about that— is making the most of the time that you have. But the problem is is we don't think we're making the most if we're not doing the most, as opposed to just doing something.

That's good.

Like, we have to learn to live with what we can do. So how have you dealt with the feelings of, like, not the big picture— okay, Lord, you asked me to lay things aside, lean into LSU, lean into what is my husband is doing right now— but You had a rhythm of producing videos, and you do your own, you know, video editing and all that. I mean, you know, like, you're like in it. You got to get your hands dirty. For you to just to kind of dip in, like, to wait until you have the time to do it, or maybe to put it up when it's good enough— you know what, this is good enough, I'm just gonna put up— like, because doing something is not how you've been operating. You've been operating doing the most. So what have you learned about living at another level of something versus the way I want to do the thing?

It was a hard adjustment because, you know, when you see months and then years go by and you don't have a book that's coming out, and you're used to putting out a book at least once a year, and, um, and then the YouTube videos aren't coming out regularly, like, it was, it was an adjustment because I was able to do those things even when I was homeschooling. So, you know, just, yeah, on a rhythm and able to produce it.

You had, you had more cracks and crevices.

Yes, yes. So now it's been, um, it's been— I've just had to be comfortable just saying I'm not. I even got off social media. For, from like January to April. I wasn't on Instagram, I wasn't on TikTok, because that's where I was. So that, that's— it was such an adjustment. Um, so it's been— I can't say it's easy because I like the flow of producing.

Yes.

But, but I'm kind of back to that because, because of the championship journey. Um, we're working on a God Did project. So I'm back to writing music, recording music, and we're preparing a documentary about that journey. So I feel like I'm back in the flow in that way, and, um, and that feels good because I just love the walk with God when I'm like— the way he's made me, I am a creative, and I love seeking the Lord about writing, whether it's a song, a book, whatever it is, just seeing him show up in that. Um, I love that. That intimate walk with the Lord in that way. So, um, I'm enjoying that. And, and actually, I was surprised that TikTok became my favorite because I could put out quick little videos and show glimpses of life here, or do like a little, little short, uh, Bible teaching, something on, on there, uh, 2 or 3 minutes, and just saw that grow really quickly. And, um And I was like, well, this doesn't take much time, but it's still something I could do is I don't have to do a big YouTube video and all of that, your cuts and your lower thirds. Yes, I can just throw something on TikTok real quick.

I wanted to ask you about, um, you know, you talked about K'ling and you said this is— this was something between me and the Lord. And, um, you know, for 15 15 years that was hidden. Um, so many things about your life, Four Seasons, have been hidden, you know, and then the Lord called some of them out of you at different times. Nobody wants— nobody wants to live the hidden life, really.

Um, yes, you know what I mean?

I mean, and yes, and on this side of hidden, I think you can say those hidden years were years of deep investment, and there are years where I learned to hear God's voice and I learned how to study his word and I learned how to, how to cultivate my craft. And I learned how to, um, take, get the downloads. I, you know, I learned how to manage my time. I learned how to, and, um, on this side of it, it's easy for you to say, it's easy for me to say, you know, don't despise the hidden years because you really build things there. But most people don't want to do it. And if we're in it, we're just like, when is this going to be over?

Mm-hmm.

Um, how, looking back, uh, what did you do a good job of in terms of just embracing that season? Or maybe you didn't, maybe you just suffered through it until it was over, but did you embrace it at all? And, and if you didn't, um, looking back, what would you do differently in those hidden years to maximize them? Because it's really when there is no eyes on you and you feel hidden, that, that's just a golden time. And people, they avoid it. So, so did you do it well? Did you not? And what, what looking back would you do differently, just to learn from that from you today?

I, I did not embrace it well at first because I had had the first book published and then left my job, and then I thought, okay, I'm going to be writing now. So I had some confusion as to whether I had heard from God because I felt that he was calling me to write. But you say, that don't mean you don't write right away. That don't mean your next book is going to be— this is going to be a time for you to be in the word and to learn to be a stay-at-home mom. And so I struggled at first, and mainly the struggle was, did I miss God in this? Well, did I not understand? But as I walked that out, and then we started homeschooling and. And, um, I just started just praying. And not started praying, I was already praying, but just started realizing that this is what the Lord wants me to do right now. And so, um, I even remember praying to God at that time, if I never write— if I never write another book— I thought I knew that I was going to be writing books, but if, if I never write another book, let me, um, appreciate this ministry that you've given me at home with my kids. And, um, and I was weeping as I prayed that because I was like, this— what that— I just give it all to you. And, um, and so it became then for me something that I embraced. And, um, even as I started writing a novel in my own time, just— it took me like 2 years, but my main focus was clinging to God in that season and, um, and embracing that time. We had the advantage, Chrystal, of not having social media when we first started.

Less distraction.

Less distraction and less having to pump things out, feeling like— because, oh yeah, that's a huge distraction if you feel like you have to pump things out, you know. Yeah.

And then all your energy doesn't go to creating the main thing. You got to create all the derivative stuff to make sure people know about the main thing, which then takes your time away from your main thing.

Correct.

Yeah.

So I, I regard that as an advantage, um, in the early 2000s. Um, but the hidden years are amazing. I feel like— and, and this will sound weird— I feel like I'm in a hidden time now, at a time when I'm doing more that seems to be public people are telling me, I see you, you're everywhere at once. I saw you at the New York Stock Exchange. On CNBC, and they send screenshots. And now I'm at the White House, and they're sending me screenshots of that. They saw me at the championship game. So it looks like I'm more public than ever. Yeah, but I feel like I'm more hidden than ever right now because people don't know that this is really a time um, where I'm just with the Lord. I'm not like my day-to-day, because I'm not writing and because I'm not speaking and traveling, I'm with the Lord most of the time. I'm not at sporting events in the morning, or, you know, after— those happen on the weekend or maybe in the evenings, but I'm spending a lot of time with the Lord and just seeking him about this season and seeking him about things that that, um, you know, what's next. And so I feel like this is a hidden time as well. So I just— I want people to understand, hidden doesn't mean that you're in a hole. It just means that you are spending time with the Lord intensely, and people may not know what you're working on. You might not be working on anything, but this time that you're spending with the Lord is going to, um, be used by God for the next thing that you do. And, um, and it will be more powerful and more impactful and more authentic because of the hidden time that you are spending listening to the voice of the Lord, being in the word, and just, um, not feeling like you have to put on some— something on social media and not dealing with those distractions. You're comfortable in a space of just saying, okay, Lord, what are we doing today? Yeah.

Yeah. That's so good. Are you making time in this season apart from, I mean, TikTok sounds like it was, like you said, a small investment and it was still keeping you connected to creating. Um, and then now I know that you've got the God Did project that you're working on that's keeping you in the creative.

Mm-hmm.

Do you know? Um, because I think we think that, you know, we think that we know, right? So you went to school, you went to be an attorney, you wanted to make money because you thought that you knew, you know?

Yeah.

Um, so I, I want to ask this question realizing that we think we know, but yes, from where you stand now, the next time the seasons change, if God asked you what you wanted that season to look like with all the things that you've done and are doing, and if you trusted your current, I think I know, what would you say? What would you say if you have more freedom, if you have more autonomy over your schedule, um, however that comes about? What would you— if God said, all right, now it is your turn, tell me what you want to be next, what would you say?

Um, what God has put on my heart and what I think it would be is just more Cling Ministry. I actually made Cling— Cling is a nonprofit now, and, uh, it's a 501 ministry. And so I would— I believe that, that, that is what— even now, because the God Did project is going to come out under KLNG, that it's just going to— it's going to be KLNG. It's going to be various forms of media under KLNG, from music to more film and Maybe more books, we'll see. But, um, it would be under that umbrella.

Is a media organization, that's what I heard you say.

But yes, I believe that's what, that's what Clean is and, and will be, will continue to be. Um, that is what I believe that God has, that it's just all, it's just all— it will now for more than 20 years under Clean just under this umbrella of pursuing intimacy with the Lord. And, um, and that has now morphed into more than I could have ever imagined ministry-wise. And I think that's what it will continue to be.

I think that's so important. Everybody wants the big umbrella, but the thing is, sometimes the umbrella has to shape itself around and above the things that go underneath it. And while everything has been connected, you know, for you, um, in a, in a way, because it has always been an outworking of what God is doing in your life, it's like, you know, attorney to mom to writer to speaker to, to, to singer-songwriter to film producer. It's like, are you serious, Lord?

Right.

I feel like that, that could be a whole book title, by the way.

Right, right.

I love that because you started with it, you started with a memoir But that was up to that point. There has been a whole 30-year situation in between, which has been glory to glory, surrender to surrender, zigzag, unexpected. How do I do this? I don't know how to do this, but I do it. And now, you know, what you're detailing is all of these different things that you didn't anticipate, didn't plan, but he's been leading you. And now it's like, oh, all of these things go under an umbrella.

Yes, yes, isn't that funny?

You know?

Yes.

But you don't get that if you just don't do what he gives, take what he gives to you and surrender and be faithful to that thing and allow that pruning.

I feel like this has been a season of pruning. Yeah, but he says you'll bear more fruit.

You'll bear more fruit.

Mm-hmm. Mm.

You know, I think it's so important that, um, I mean, you know, I'm always enamored, uh, with your journey because I just think you do a great job. You know, however, however that great job comes into being, you do a great job responding to God's voice and to pivoting. You're just like, okay, okay. Um, that means you trust God. Um, why do you trust God? Because people who don't easily pivot or decide to pivot, it's an issue of trust. Like, I keep running into this thing, but I don't want to do that. I don't know how that's going to work. Why would I take a left turn and go here? You know, they don't go with it because ultimately, even if they don't want to say that out loud, that's what it is. Because if you trusted that God is a good God, and if he leads you somewhere you did not expect, it's because he has something good planned for you. If you don't go, it's because you don't trust. So what enables you to trust? Why do you trust?

I think, um, and, and trust you know, is challenged all the time with every new thing, with every new conflict, every new heartache, every new— um, so, so it's not that I don't have times. I have many times where I'm crying out to God, where I'm in tears, where I am wrestling. And, um, but I, I just— it's just I know I need the word of God. So for me, my every day, my every morning, I'm in the word. I have to be. It's not, it's not, um, a checklist thing. It's not. I have to be because he meets me there. And I, I might open the word of God, I might be in tears, I might be fussing with God because I'll be like, I don't understand. I thought you said blah blah blah, and like, what is this? Is your word true or not? Like, is it— what is this? And so we don't— and I'm very comfortable talking to God like that because I walk with the Lord. And so trusting him is trusting that you can be real with God, that you can pour out your heart like Hannah did, that you can just sit with him and just let him love on you and let him minister to you. And, and because I've done that for 20-some years now, and he shows up every time— he shows up every time. Yeah, I, I have to trust him. I, I can't— like, so again, it's not that there aren't challenges. It's not like I'm like, la-di-da, I know God is going— no, I've been like No, it's hard a lot of times, very hard. Um, but I trust him because he shows up. And there are so many times where I'll be just feeling low and it's like, I don't understand this, Lord, why this or why that? And you just hear that still small voice. It's just, just one word sometimes. It's like, okay, because, because when he shows up and when he speaks a word, or when you're in the word and you know that this on the page is what God has for you right now, it comes with power.

Listen, say that again for the people in the back.

It comes with power. It's not just, it's not just God speaking. And the reason I can be like, okay, is because it came with power. It came with the force of God. It came with his grace because he's meeting you in that moment and he's ministering to you, and he does what only God can do. And peace floods your soul, and then you begin to have that joy that you can't even explain, and you're comforted because God is with you. And there's nothing like that. And so I have to trust him. I just trust him because he's faithful and he's been faithful from season to season to season.

So good, so good. So somebody were to ask you right now, what do you do? What is your answer? Oh my goodness, they just meet you at the airport, you're sitting next to somebody random on a plane, what do you do? What is your answer?

I don't even know, Chrystal Hurst. I don't know if I met somebody on a plane and they said, what do you do? You know, okay, I do know what I would say. I would say I'm in ministry. I write. I do, you know, I might— I haven't had a book to come out, but I'm still a writer. I write and I'm in ministry. That's usually what I say. But if my true answer to that question is I cling to God, that's my answer. What I do might change every other day out of that, but I cling to God desperately.

So good. Ah, thanks so much for joining me. This was great, Kim.