It's Time to Heal with Debra Fileta

So Deborah Falada is no stranger to the Sister Circle or to the podcast. She has been on the podcast multiple times. She's also been a guest encourager for Sister Circle events. And in addition to that, for the Inner Circle membership, she has dropped in multiple times, many times to leave encouragement and practical information that helps, um, our members to live life well. I think we all need encouragement. We all need to be reminded. Sometimes we need to be taught things we don't know, but oftentimes in this world that is full of information, it's not the information that we lack. It's the reminders and the encouragement to do something with what we already know. And she's been so grace-filled and graceful to grace us with her presence over and over again. Today I get to talk to Deborah, um, about a few things that are on the in my mind to talk to her about, because listen, y'all, I just believe that, you know, whether it's a friend, a mother, a sister, a therapist, a counselor, a psychotherapist, a doctor, you got to go get what you need. And you need to be able to be transparent, authentic, um, to be able to say what's really going on with you and to have the door open in your life to be vulnerable because healing comes through vulnerability. And so I'm always grateful when I have the opportunity to have a counselor, um, particularly a licensed counselor join us because I think we're all in for a treat with practical help we can use. So welcome, Deborah, to the show again.

Well, it's always good to be here with you, Chrystal Hurst, and all the sisters. I love this group so much.

Well, listen, I saw your last book. Your most recent book was just released a month ago as of this recording. So, Reset: Powerful Habits to Own Your Thoughts, Understand Your Feelings, and Change Your Life. We all need habits, but habits are, you know, at this point in the year, we're recording this in the month of May, the top of May. And what most of us realize by the time we get to March, April, and May of every year is whatever resolutions, whatever goals we had set at the beginning of the year, if we did not build new pathways in with new habits, we resort to habits that are tried and true. The way I think about it, and I'm sure that there's a scientific way to describe it, but the way I think about it is like a well-worn path in my brain. If I get to a forest, uh, or, you know, um, a gathering of trees and I, it seems like a dead end, but I happen to see that there seems to be a particular path already worn. And if I don't know where I'm going, I'm gonna go with the path that's already been worn. Cuz why would I try something new? Obviously enough people took this path to say that this is something other people have done. And I think our brains, The way I think about my brain is that it's wired a lot like that. There are pathways in my brain that are already, um, already cleared. And so when I'm stressed, when I'm afraid, when times are hard, when I don't have time, when I don't know the answer, when I'm confused, when I'm not, I don't have clarity, I revert back to the pathways that are worn. Creating new pathways can be tough. I mean, it's like, and even when you create new pathways in your brain through the practice of habits, it doesn't mean that the old ones go away. So there's still this tension of, I want to be a different person, or I want to have different realities in my life, whether they be related to health or thinking or decision-making or relationships. Um, and so habits feel like to me a lot of work, but I need new ones because I want new realities in my life. I would love for you to talk a little bit just scientifically a little bit about habit formation. Why is it so hard? Why do we have the desire to find new paths, to do things in new ways, and then honestly often get disappointed that, ah, we didn't do it again? It's hard. Why is it so hard?

Yeah, yeah. I love that analogy about the forest and the trail because it's so true. Our brains are wired to take the path of least resistance. That's just what we're gonna do. And oftentimes the path of least resistance comes from the habits that we've built unintentionally through things like our family of origin, how we grew up, our trauma response, our survival mechanisms, our coping skills. Like, when you build a habit, it's often a habit that you're building as a reaction to something, not a response to something. So going through this hard situation and I'm trying to survive, so I'm going to tune out my stress by going to Netflix and binge-watching Netflix because that's the easiest path that's right there and it's how I survive. Yeah, but later on in life when you're trying to thrive and no longer survive, you have all these pathways that are built up that are not healthy. And so instead of just reacting, now we actually have to start responding, which means being intentional to do things differently. And we have that power. Of course it's not easy. You know, someone asked me recently, well, Deborah, change is hard, right? Like, how can you motivate us to do something that is so hard? And I said to them, you know what, change is hard. But not changing is harder. Healing is hard, but living unhealed is even harder because you allow that burden, that dysfunction, that lack of health to sit in your life. And, and not only that, it spills out into the people who live with you— your friends, your family, your children, your marriage. And that is so much harder than the work of healing. So yeah, they're both hard, but in my opinion, one of them is way harder, and that's living unchanged and unhealed because the effects of that just linger on.

How important is it? I mean, I know that when you— when someone picks up the COVID of your book and it talks about the habits to own your thoughts, understand your feelings, and change your life, um, I love the, the the specificity of the habit of understanding your feelings. What is the habit of understanding your feelings, and why is that so important?

Yeah, you know, feelings are something that I think we downplay, specifically in the Christian culture. I think we think that feelings are bad or wrong or that they're the opposite of faith, which isn't true. Feelings are a signal. They're a spotlight. They are the dashboard light going off and saying, "Pay attention! There is something here to learn. There is something here to address. There is something here to pay attention to." That's what feelings are. And so when we go through life thinking that feelings are bad or wrong or unhelpful, and we stuff those feelings, we're missing the signal. And we're just trying to blindly live our life and do things that we don't even realize we're doing because of these feelings that we're stuffing underneath the surface of our lives. So, I love feelings. I think they're a signal. Now, don't get me wrong. I say this often, but feelings are real, but they're not always true. That doesn't mean every feeling you feel is a real thing that you just have to follow because it's telling you ultimate truth. Not necessarily, but it is a signal. I like to think of it as a metal detector. I'm on this weird kick right now, Chrystal. I'm about to hit my 40th birthday, and you know what I really want? A metal detector.

Oh my gosh, why?

I, I see all these people walking around the beach with these metal detectors looking for treasure.

Oh, like a little child, huh?

The little child inside of me is like, how fun would it be to walk along the beach and find treasure? But There's a point to what I'm saying. The point is that oftentimes that metal detector when you're walking down the beach looking for treasure— you hear it go beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-beep—it's signaling something. There is something there. It's not always gold, right? But there is something there. And I view our feelings in the same way. Beep-beep-beep-beep. It's that alarm, that signal something is going on underneath the surface. Doesn't mean it's gonna be 100% accurate that you've hit gold. You know, it doesn't mean that this feeling is telling you the truth always, but nonetheless, it's a signal for us to learn to tune into. And I truly believe the equation of healing is in the subtitle of the book. If you get nothing else out of it, the pathway to healing is to own your thoughts because thoughts lead to feelings, and then understand your feelings because feelings then lead to your behavior. When you believe and think something, it impacts how you feel, which then impacts how you behave. And oftentimes when we want to change something in our life, we start with the behavior. Let me tweak this, let me clean out my fridge, let me join the gym, let me do A, B, and C externally. But we don't actually get to the, the thing underneath, which is the feelings, and the thing even deeper than that is our thought process, our belief system that's causing us to react and respond in a certain way. So the equation to healing really starts with our beliefs and then our feelings, and then ultimately it'll change our behaviors.

Let me, um, take a quick deep dive and ask you this question. So what is the, the, the importance or the role of cognitive behavioral therapy if based on what you're saying, um, you know, really everything originates with thoughts. Is there room for that? What is the role for that? When is it useful? Yeah. Um, and I'm, I'm making an assumption that in that behavior is the starting point or is the focus of the outcome. So if, um, if we're supposed to kind of work our way from the inside out, um, you know, where is there room for that behavioral modification, that kind of thing?

Is it useful at all? So, so cognitive behavioral therapy starts with the cognitive piece, the cognition, right? So in, in Reset, I talk about the ABCs of therapy, and in that is really the foundation of cognitive behavioral therapy is A, B, and C. So A is the activating event— what happened? Right? Something happened to what we call trigger you. B is my belief about what happened, my thought process, my underlying thinking. Let's say the activating event is that my husband comes into the room and says, oh man, you still haven't finished the bills. And all of a sudden I start to believe something. There's a belief system, whether I know it or not. The belief system is he doesn't think I'm good enough, he is questioning me, I must be inadequate, I don't feel like he respects me in this moment. All of a sudden I'm feeling— I'm believing all of these things. I'm believing in— I'm inadequate, I'm believing I'm not good enough, I'm believing that he doesn't care about me and that he's, you know, unhappy with me. These are beliefs, they're not feelings. They're actual beliefs. When I believe A, B, and C, all of a sudden I start to feel inadequate, insecure, frustrated, maybe even angry, and I snap. That's the C, the consequence. A is the activating event, B is the belief system, C is the consequence. I snap, I get angry, I storm out of the room. You know, that's what's happening based on what's going on underneath the surface.. And so many times we go through this process without even realizing it. So cognitive behavioral therapy helps us to slow it down and say, okay, sure, that's the activating event. What do you believe about this that's causing you to react? Let's start unpacking some of your beliefs. Where are they true and where are they false? And let's address some of these things. So, so cognitive behavioral therapy is so important, and I think it's are really important parts of the process of healing. But to be honest with you, there's another layer, and that layer is getting to the roots of where some of these unhealthy beliefs began to begin with. And for some of us, when we're triggered by something, like somebody says something to hurt our feelings or something that causes us to explode, sure, it's about our beliefs in the present. But it's also about something else. When we're triggered, it's almost like somebody pushes up against a sore spot, right? They might not have caused it, but they're pushing on it. And oftentimes it's rooted in deeper pain, deeper hurts that are influencing our faulty beliefs. And I, I really think the beautiful thing about all of these things, whether it's these thoughts whether it's these feelings that come up, whether it's these behaviors, it's God inviting us to a deeper level of healing. When it, when it's revealed, sometimes we're ashamed or embarrassed, but we should be grateful that God is choosing to reveal it so that he can heal it. It's like, what is going on here that the Lord wants me to address?

So One of the things that I hear that is negative about therapy, counseling, is the idea of going back. You said, you know, take the time to go back. You know, I hear people talk about how they don't want to live in the past. You know, they don't want to dwell on the past. They want to face forward. They want to be positive. You know, that happened in my past. I don't want to. And so there's this. Acknowledgment of the past, but, um, this discovery of, you know, something comes up and, um, like you said, I'm triggered or it's something pushing up against the sore spot, but I don't wanna spend forever, you know, looking at the sore spot. Like I wanna live my life. And so there's this communication sometimes, not about counseling being bad or therapy being bad, but that so many people get stuck for so long or invited to for so long focus on the past so much so that it provides reasons, sometimes excuses, um, for present behavior. And because I've, I've actually seen that, um, where, um, sometimes, um, because of things that have been hard and that have been terrible and that have happened, that people don't get past it cuz they're constantly talking about what went wrong instead of moving forward. So what is the balance and the healthy balance with what you're saying, paying attention because you do, you don't want to react. You want to respond, um, and respond intentionally, but not spending so much time in the past, um, that it cripples you from moving forward. What is the healthy balance and how can I as an individual know the, know the difference so that I keep that in healthy balance? Where I'm able to still live my life right now.

Yeah, so there's two extremes to this. There's the people who decide they don't want to look back at all and they bury their pain. I'm just gonna bury it, I'm gonna ignore it, pretend it doesn't exist and move on. But I always tell my clients, the best way to preserve your pain is to bury it. Bury it, put it underneath the ground. You know, in ancient days when they wanted to preserve anything, they would bury it. It lasts longer. So go ahead and preserve your pain, but it's going to stay with you much longer than if you bring it up to the surface. So there's that one extreme, like, I don't even want to go there. But then, like you said, there's another extreme where people want to fixate on their past. And I always say there is a big difference between facing your past and fixating on there. Facing it means we look back, with the intention of healing and transformation and change. I look back at the pain points and I go back to heal with the intention of moving forward. Fixating is when I just end up looking back at my past for the sake of looking back at my past, for the sake of feeling sorry for myself, for the sake of staying a victim. And I don't ever do what I need to do, shift what I need to shift, take the power over my past that I need to take the power over. Your past is powerful, but you are so much more powerful than your past. Your trauma is powerful, but you are so much more powerful than your trauma because of Christ at work in you. And so a healthy person doesn't ignore their past and doesn't fixate on their past either. They look back with the goal of healing so that they can move forward. And I think that's the ultimate goal. So yeah, if you're going to a counselor and all you're doing for months on end and years on end is talking about your past without ever having solutions to move forward, then yeah, it's probably not the best fit. Because I think ideal healing has a goal. We look back in order to move forward, and, and I think there's something really important there because you end up stuck in either extreme. You're stuck if you never look back, but you're also stuck if you're constantly looking back. That's so good.

I know that, um, it can be tough. The extremes can be tough either way. Because like you said, it's looking back with the goal of healing, you know, no matter what you're choosing something. And so looking back with the goal of healing means you're choosing to face maybe old pain that was not dealt with and it's not comfortable, but you're choosing, if you don't do that, to hold onto that for a long time. And I think a part of what I hear you saying is it's not, it's not neutral. You, you are making a decision either way. And I think sometimes, um, people don't think they're burying it. They're just not dealing with it. Like, I just don't wanna think about it. I don't wanna. And so it's neutral. It feels like it's neutral. Um, do you think it's possible in our personal healing, therapeutically, cognitively, to be neutral, or is it we're always proactively moving forward, healing, growing, or going backwards? Is there any such thing as just hanging out in a neutral space when it comes to your mental and emotional well-being?

No, I don't think that you can be neutral without moving backward. You know, that doesn't mean you have to be like doing the heavy lifting all the time, every day. Some days it's just one step forward. Doesn't mean you have to walk 10 miles a day just to move forward, but you choose to take a step in the direction forward, or you neglect and ignore and repress, and without realizing it, you drift backwards. And I think that goes with anything good in life. Yeah, whether it's a good marriage, whether it's a healthy spiritual life, whether it's physical health goals, emotional mental health goals, spiritual goals. There is this beautiful ability that God has given us to take one step forward and to decide that we want to be healed and we want to do things differently today. One step today makes all the difference in our life. So sure, there's going to be seasons where it's heavy lifting, there's going to be seasons where we have to walk miles in order to keep up because the hard things are pushing us back. But I don't think that's every single day of our lives. You know, some days it's literally just one step today that's going to make me a healthier person.

Um, one of the things that if, if we think we can be neutral is, um, knowing that we're knowing where we are. And I think often it's difficult to know where we are. Are we moving forward? Are we moving backwards? Because if neutral is not a thing, how do I know? Is, is having the bandwidth and the margin to actually know where you are. And I know you talk about this in Reset. You talk about the importance of pausing. Um, in that first chapter, you say, pause for a moment and listen. Hear exactly what God wants you to change in the present. Understand where you've made mistakes in the past and see what you're being called to do as you look to the future. Um, and you talk about this, this the noise, the difference between inner and outer noise. If we can't be aware, um, and triggering— being triggered is a whole thing, and that can bring awareness. Why did I react that way? But I find most people, um, because I think we're aware that we're triggered, but most people live kind of numb and unaware that they're not good. It's just you get kind of comfortable You know, it's like, you know, in the third grade I got my first pair of glasses and, um, you know, I realized that I was squinting to see the board, but I didn't realize that it was a problem until my teacher called my parents and said, Chrystal is squinting to see the board, take her to the eye doctor. And then when I got the glasses and the world got brighter and had more colors and got sharper, it was only then that I knew I had been living beneath the potential that I had to see clearly, but I was comfortable there. So I didn't even know.

I love that.

You know, I didn't even know that there was a problem. So what does it mean to take the pause? What does it mean to deal with inner and outer noise? What is inner and outer noise so that we notice that we're actually not seeing clearly or walking in our best, walking as our best selves?

I'm going to piggyback off your analogy because I really, I really appreciate that perspective. So there's two ways that we really can realize that we're not doing well or we're not where we need to be. When we grow numb to it, right? When we're not seeing clearly, but we're so used to it, it's so familiar that we don't even think it's a problem. There's two ways that we recognize we are off where we need to be. Number one, people start telling us things. Chrystal, I'm over here. Chrystal, Chrystal, look at that board. Chrystal, wait, you can't read that? Chrystal, what do you mean you can't read that? And people start giving us feedback, and we start thinking, wait a second, maybe something is wrong with my vision that I didn't even notice. Like, am I supposed to see that? You know, so number 1 is feedback from the people around us that are closest to us. Number 2 We visit the doctor. We have no clue that there's anything wrong, and we go to an eye doctor. Ironically, my husband is an eye doctor, so this really works, right? We go to an eye doctor, and he sits us down, and he looks in, and he gives us some tools, and he's looking in our vision, and he's having us look at the letters, and he's like, something's off. To me, those are the two ways in life too. Our closest friends right? Family, people we trust that are speaking into our life and saying, listen, you're getting angrier than you should be. Our kids are like, Mom, why are you losing your cool so much? Mom, are you— you know, you're not being patient. Or your husband, or your family members, or your friends, and they start saying things and it kind of bothers you. But maybe it's time to tune in, like, could what they— could what they're saying be true? And the second thing is to visit our doctor. The Great Physician, the Holy Spirit, and to sit with him and say, tell me how I'm doing, Lord. Search my heart, see if there is any wicked way in me, help me. And that's the part that we often don't take the time to do. And I think this is where the pause comes in, of learning to get with the Lord and be still turn off our phones, turn off our computers, turn off our devotionals, turn off our YouVersion app, turn off the screens, and just sit with the Lord and say, "Lord, like, search my heart. Help me to get aligned to your truth. Help me to get aligned to what I need to heal. What is it in my life that you see that I'm struggling with? What has become so familiar that I don't even recognize it anymore? Convict me." Show me, you know, give me a clear vision to see what you see, Lord, and help me become healthier emotionally, spiritually, mentally, physically. And I do believe when we make that time, God will always say yes to helping us on a journey of healing. But the problem is we don't make the time. We live in such a go, go, go, go, go culture. That being still is kind of strange. Like, productivity and efficiency are our priority rather than insight and awareness and understanding and getting right with the Lord. And if I had to choose a theme verse for this whole book, I would choose Proverbs 20:5, and that says this: The purposes of a person's heart are like deep waters, but a person of insight draws out those waters. God's saying our purposes, our motivations, why we do what we do, for the good and the bad, are like deep waters. And having insight means we begin to draw out some of those things and face them. And, and there's an intentionality there. There's a sitting with the Lord there. There's a work there of allowing God to help reveal things that are going on underneath the surface so that we can be people of insight. Insight means that we can learn to tune out what's happening around us and tune in to what's happening inside of us. And we really need the Holy Spirit's help for that.

Listen, it blows my mind how The way you think can really and truly shift the narrative of your life. And often the only way to figure out how you're thinking, how you're feeling, what's going on on the inside is to get away from the everyday so that you can really get a good assessment of how you are. Now, I, like you, know that that's tough. Listen, whether I was in my 20s and working crazy hours, whether I was in my 30s with small children, in my 40s, trying to work and manage my home in my 50s, continuing to do more of the same. I know that our lives are busy. And so while it may sound good to get your thoughts together, and it may sound good to take care of your emotions, and it may sound good to figure out how your soul is doing, how are we supposed to do that with all the stuff we have going on? I mean, I'm busy. You're busy. We've got church and school and community and our careers and our desires and our hobbies and our relationships. But what I can tell you with 100% certainty is that when you prioritize making the space to get to know how you're doing, how you're doing, and how you're doing in your head, your heart, and in your hands, your life can pivot in the best ways as a result. So if you would like to get away, but you're not exactly sure where to go, when to go, who to go with, well, let me give you an opportunity to join me for time away to reconnect with you. I'm going to be going to Hume, California in October of 2023. I'm hosting the Sister Circle Retreat, and the whole point of the retreat is to give you the opportunity to hear your heartbeat, but to also give you the opportunity to spend time with me, my friends who are gonna pour into you practical faith-based wisdom to live life well. And to also spend time with other women who are valuing to the same degree you're valuing the health of your soul. This retreat is October, the third weekend, the 19th through the 22nd. I'd love for you to join me. You can find out more information by going to thesistercircle.com/retreat. I believe that you can make space where you are right now, but if you want to make it extra special, want to get away, want to get some sunshine and want to spend time with me, and a bunch of women who are living with intention to challenge their thoughts, their feelings, and their actions. You want to be in that group? It'll change your life being with people who are also hungry for change like you. And I invite you to join us all in October. Now let's get back to our episode, our teaching, and our transformation in my conversation with Deborah Falada. You know, I, I love this idea that, um, Getting feedback. I mean, I think one of the problems, which is why we sometimes don't understand our feelings or why we have problems with our thoughts, and you mentioned this earlier, just in terms of our upbringing in our childhood and our previous experiences, there has been feedback all throughout our life, whether it was intentional or not, whether it was positive or negative. And that feedback taught us something. Um, so sometimes the issue is, and you said close people, people you trust, but how do you, I'd love to dig into that a little bit because feedback has often for many of us gotten us into the situation we're in. You know what I mean? We believed something that wasn't true or what someone said about us or the environment that we were in with people that we trusted, but that was incorrect information or an incorrect way to live or an unhealthy way to think or behave. But we ingested that, which is why we have the behaviors we have now. So when you talk about getting feedback and making the room for feedback, can you give some wisdom with regard to how I can know if the person or the feedback the person is giving me is feedback I should take? And I'll give you a I think of a couple of examples because sometimes you hear people that have done great things in the world. Maybe they've had high vision, something that hadn't been done before, and the feedback that they would get from other people is, that's too hard. You're never going to do that. You're wasting your time and energy. Artists or musicians who were told, you're never going to make a living doing that. And it's because they didn't listen to the feedback of people they trusted or of people, many people that had their best in mind. That they were able to live their dreams. And so that's kind of what I'm thinking about, is that there are times where you, you love them and you trust them, but you don't listen. And then there are times when there are people who everybody is telling them, if you don't slow down, you're not going to be well. If you don't take care of your body, you're not going to last long. And we've seen this even recently on the news with a lot of people having health issues. Where it's like these are preventable things, but people are living their life and they're staying busy. And I'm sure people were around them telling them that, but they didn't listen, and they should have. So it's like, when to listen and when to not? When is it good feedback? When is it feedback that you should dismiss? What keys or cues or wisdom would you share so if I'm not even sure, I can make a decision?

Well, let's go back to the analogy from earlier, you know, little Chrystal needing some glasses and not sure what to do about it, because And I feel like that is an important part of figuring this out. You can take the feedback that people give you, but you cannot take it standing alone. It can't be a replacement for a visit with the doctor, right? Like, your friends can all tell you this, but they still don't know your prescription. They don't know what you need. They don't know if you need surgery or not. You can take their feedback.. But then you bring that feedback into the doctor's office and you see if it aligns with what your doctor is saying and, and where you're at, because the doctor has a deeper view of what's going on underneath the surface of your life. And that's good. I, I, I even believe that in my life today, I have my, my sister circle, my, my circle of sisters that I love and people that are so close to me. And even their feedback I take and I bring it into alignment with the Lord. Okay, Lord, what is here for me to receive and what is here for me not to receive? And I don't know that unless I align it with God's truth, with the Spirit at work in my life, with what God is speaking to me. And I can't do that without learning to still some of that external noise. And tune into what he's saying. So there's a process there, because you're absolutely right, there are some things that people tell us that do not align with God's truth and are going to lead us down an unhealthy path. And so that's where we have to be so wise and always bringing it back to the measuring stick of God's truth. God's word is so important to the equation, but not just God's word, God's spirit. Um, alive and active in our life. And, and I do think we have to work on having one person in our life that has spoken enough truth to us that we can begin to trust their truth, still aligning it to God's truth. But over the years, the things that people tell you either begin to add up to earning your trust or they begin to add up in realizing that they are not trustworthy. And they can be people with wonderful intentions, but trust is not something that you give as a gift. Trust is something that people have to earn a little at a time, one feedback at a time, one conversation at a time, one interaction at a time. And so I would hope that In the healthiest season of our lives, we have at least one person whose percentage of trust has earned them a place where we can open our ears and say, yeah, you're not God and you're not infallible, but I can trust what you're saying, and I can, I can listen, and I can hear, and I can trust that it's coming from a good place. Um, and, and even that we bring into alignment with what God is speaking to us.

You know, you talk about all of these things as habits. You know, it's not just because I'm having a bad day or I'm triggered, or I have a major decision to make that I all of a sudden want to figure out how to get into my head and figure out my feelings. It's a part of a way of living. Um, I would love for you to tell me about your patterns. Um, what does it look like for for you to quiet the noise inside and out? What does it look like for you to own your thoughts? Um, because I think these are principles, these are ideals. And I think in the seasons that we're living in this age, we hear a lot about, you know, knowing your own truth, being authentic, gotta be vulnerable. I need to be healthy, my mental health. You know, we've talked about triggers and trauma, especially because of 2020. These are words that we've thrown around. Sometimes they're used correctly, every now and then they're not used correctly. But I think we have a general idea that we're supposed to be aware and be good, not just having a job and having an income and a roof over our head, but that inside matters. But I think what's lost to so many of us are the habits. So specifically with the quieting of the noise and really getting clear on your own thoughts. Um, what does that look like for you to create the space in that? I mean, you are a licensed counselor, you are an author many times over, you, um, you know, manage and lead a network of counselors. Like, you know, you got a family, like you have a whole life, you know? And so, um, practically speaking, what does it look like for you to make the space to begin working on those good habits?

Yeah, the truth is we all have full, crazy lives. Like, that's just the reality, no matter who we are, no matter what we're doing, no matter what season we're in. Now, sure, maybe some seasons are quieter than others, but probably most of the women tuning in are in our stage of life where we've got parents, we've got kids, we've got friends, community. Like, there's a lot going on right now in this season, right?. And, you know, I want to go into my personal life, but I also want to say one thing that I think is so important that I felt like I had to do with Writing Reset is not just offer you 31 theories, but 31 practices. Because at the end of each chapter, there is a practical activity that you can do to kind of guide you, not just, oh, here's this great idea.. But now, take this idea and do this. Do this. Try this. Do this exercise. Do this activity because I think it's not just about reading and learning. It's about practicing. And I— That's right. If I had to choose a word to replace the word habits, I would say it's more of powerful practices because there are things you have to practice again and again and again. And I like the word practice because it shows you that it's not this perfection. Habit maybe sounds a little more rigid, like here's what you have to do every single day.

And it's done.

Like it's locked in. Right. Whereas practices are like, you know what? Every day I get to practice something new and try and sometimes fail. But I'm working towards achieving this practice that becomes a part of my life. So, two things. In the first practice of pausing, I actually invite you to take 10 minutes to turn off your phone, to find a comfortable chair, to turn off your devices and distractions. 10 minutes. If you can't find 10 minutes, then something is seriously wrong with your life, and that's a story for another day. If 10 minutes is too much, right? Start on the bathroom while you're going to the bathroom, in the shower. Find a spot to sit for 10 minutes and be still, because quieting the external world is the first step. But then you realize your brain is buzzing like, oh, the dishes, oh, the kids, oh, the schedules, oh, the laundry, what am I gonna— and even practicing stilling what's going on inside of your mind. Lord, Help me to focus. Help me to, to be present with you in this space. It is not wasted time when we try and still our minds and know that he is God. It's one of the best things that we can do for our spiritual life, is just to be still and allow the Lord space to speak. So I give you this, this practice. Do this for 10 minutes and then work your way up to more time. And you know, 10 minutes sounds so easy, but when you sit down in a chair for 10 minutes with nothing going on, it feels like an eternity. It does. And you realize how hard it actually is. And so we're building these practices into your life. Another practice, and one that I do frequently, is to write down my negative thoughts. And I talk about this in one of the chapters. When we struggle with negative thinking, or maybe we don't even know that we have negative thinking, it's automatic, we don't even realize it. Take 24 hours and write down every negative thought that pops into your mind, whether it's a thought of discouragement, insecurity, fear. Write it on a piece of paper or get a note on your phone app and just like put it in there real quick, every single time. Take 24 hours. I say 24 hours because obviously it's hard to tune in like from today on for the rest of my life. But 24 hours I can do. 24 hours I'm just going to write down every negative thought that pops into my mind. The next day, the habit I walk you through is to start looking for patterns. Look at those 24 hours of thinking and let's start looking for patterns now. Is there a theme of fear? Is there a theme of overwhelm? Is there a theme of inadequacy? What are the themes? Because the themes will help us pinpoint the areas of our life that need some deeper work, the beliefs that we've been holding on to. So, so I want to give you hope in the, the idea that this isn't just a book that you read. This is something we're going to practice together. This is something that I practice in my own life. This is a journey of like, every day I'm going to try something a little bit differently than what I've done in the past. And little by little, these practices add up to small shifts in our life that begin to change the entire trajectory of where we're going. Someone said once, it's kind of like a boat. When you shift one degree, it changes the entire trajectory of where you're going. And I really believe that to be true.

It's good. I'm curious, I know you gave 10 minutes as a starting point. Is that functionally what you aim for in this season of your life?

You know, in different seasons it looks a little bit differently. Uh, I just came out of a really busy season from February to the beginning of April, maybe even mid-April, where To me, it looked more like being intentional in the shower, being intentional at the end of the night before bed, you know, just in my bed with my devotions, or just sitting and, and being with the Lord. Now that I'm out of that busier season, I've been trying to be more intentional about finding a place that I love, a, a place that brings me peace, because I realize there might be a short season where finding 10 minutes is difficult, but if, if that becomes a pattern of my life where finding 10 minutes is always difficult, I know I cannot sustain that pace. I can't. And I don't— to me, this isn't just about thriving. This is about realizing that I can't survive without having these habits in place because I'm gonna burn out. I'm gonna be empty. I'm gonna be depleted. I'm gonna crash and burn eventually if I don't do this. And I don't want to wait until I crash and burn to be like, oh, maybe I should have some margin. Maybe I should have some of these practices. Maybe I should pause. Maybe I should clear my schedule. Oftentimes, people do it as a reaction to burnout rather than preventative. Like, I don't want to have to wait till everything breaks down to then start to do it differently. I want to stay on top of it because I know what breakdown feels like. I have been there. I talk about it in Are You Really Okay? The point of just feeling like you can't go anymore. And I don't want to get to that place ever again. I want to stay on top of it. And, and so part of this too isn't just practices to thrive, it's practices to keep you going so that you don't end up in a place that you— that God doesn't want you to be.

So personal question. Yeah. And I, I'm so glad that you took the time to talk about, um, I mean, you're always so practical as a nature of how you practice your counseling and, um, how you deal with people. But, um, I love, I love practical and I love reading a book that doesn't just tell me what to think or what to ponder, but what to do. Um, but you mentioned, uh, your last book, Are You, uh, you know, Are You Really Okay? And, and how you talked about this. So, but you're the counselor, right? Like you, you have the information and you deal with people all the time who are dealing with burnout and struggling with depression or dealing with overwhelm. Yeah. So, and I think that, you know, cycling back to where I kind of started, we have so much knowledge. Right? And then we have to put it into practice. So for you, what do you think led to the things that you are aware of, um, not being included in your own life? Um, and how were you able to, how were you able to prioritize reconnecting with those truths to move forward? One, because I think we have the knowledge, And many of us still fall into, I don't even know how I got here, right? Yeah. Because I knew, I felt it happening and I felt, I felt overwhelm happening, or I felt this happening over and over again, but we're just kind of churning through it and we just don't pause. And then we find ourselves on the floor and it's like, how did I even get here? Because we had the knowledge. Yeah. And then for some of us, we find ourselves in that how did I get here spot. And then the knowledge that we have. Of what we're supposed to do just seems too far away to reach for, too difficult to do from our spot on the floor. And people fall down and then they don't get up. So since you are what many of us would think of as the quintessential knower of the information to not get into a burnout and overwhelm situation, what do you think, or, you know, what do you know kind of put you in that circumstance? And then how did you find the energy from that place to engage with those truths, to put yourself back into a healthy place.

Yeah, so one of the main things for me is growing up in a family of immigrants. My parents were first-generation Americans. They moved here, um, first-generation immigrants. I'm a first-generation American. I was the first generation to be born in America. And when you come from an immigrant family, I think one thing that you witness is a hard work ethic. Like, they had to work to survive, you know. And, and somewhere along the way, I translated that into my little developmental brain as, you need to work hard to be loved, to be appreciated, to be accepted. That's just part of life. You work really hard. And I took some of those faulty beliefs into my relationship with the Lord. And feeling like I had to produce, I had to work, I had to, you know, do these things without ever taking a break. Like, like serving God was life. And the, the truth is I don't believe that to be true now today, but I carry those beliefs for a very long time, all the way through college. I remember my very first struggle with depression and what we would call burnout something shifted in my body hormonally. So now I have my physical health is struggling, and on top of it is this crazy work ethic, like work, work, do, do, do, do. You cannot sustain that without crashing, and that's exactly what happened. And during that crash, I had to realize, wow, I've grown up in a culture that's very low on boundaries. It's like, do more, do more, say yes, say yes, work harder, work harder. And I've adapted that into my own life. Into my own relationship with the Lord. Where is this accurate? Where isn't it? What is coming from my past and what is actually God's truth? Oftentimes I'll say, is this rooted in my trauma or is this rooted in God's truth? And for that season, I realized the importance of rooting it in God's truth, which is you are loved as you are. And I remember so clearly a verse that the Lord used to, to that spoke to my heart was when Jesus got baptized, and he hadn't done anything yet, yet the voice of God said, "This is my Son with whom I am well pleased." I had to believe the truth that God was pleased with me even when I was accomplishing nothing, and I truly believe that was the starting point for me of healing. Changing my belief systems then changed how I felt, which then made it easier for me to set boundaries. Fast forward now, 15, 20 years later, 30 years even, I am a person who is so high on boundaries. Like, boundaries are my best friend. I say no to so many things— to work, to ministry opportunities, even to my children sometimes— and realizing like, this is how I keep myself in a healthy place. God is pleased with me even when I'm not accomplishing and doing. That mindset mindset just frees you to be able to be still and not feel like you're wasting time, to be able to enjoy life and not feel like you need to be producing something, you know, like that, that belief system and, and changing that. I could have just cleared my schedule, right? Yeah, but if I didn't change that belief system, my schedule would have eventually gotten overloaded all over again. And to be honest with you, it's still something I have to keep front and center Like, when I feel that pendulum begin to shift, I'm like, uh, nope, I'm not gonna go there again. That is not my value and worth. Like, this is who I am in Christ, and this is where I need to stay. And I have found when I can actively, one step at a time, stay there mentally, everything else in my life follows suit. And, and, and I can stay in this healthy space of abiding in what God has called me to do without feeling like I have to do more, accomplish more. Um, I— between me and you, Chrystal Hurst, I only work 2.5 days a week. And I know that sounds crazy. Now, the caveat of that is the other 2.5 days I have the kids and I'm doing the mom life and the homeschool life. But I'm— I try not to take all of the work and all of the family life and put it all together in a blender. And because it's just— I, I know I have limits and it's too much. And I think sometimes The freedom comes when you know you have limits. Even Jesus had limits, and he was the Son of God. Even Jesus had to stop and say, peace out, I'm taking a nap, people. You know, like, I'm gonna go sleep for a little bit. And just realizing that God is pleased when you sit, when you rise, when you go, when you stop, when you work, when you rest just gives you the freedom to do what he's called you to do in a healthy way.

So very good. So very good. Thanks for letting me poke around in your personal life just a little bit. And I know you've shared about it, but I think it's just so poignant to this conversation because it's easy for someone to look at you and say, yeah, you're a counselor. This is true. It's easy for you to say. But I think it takes on a different life when not only do you know it to be true as a wise woman, that you've learned it to be true because of your practice and your career, but also that you've experienced it to be true for your own self. And I love how right at the end there, you talked about being drawn back into it. Um, that idea of that path that's already well worn, right? It's still there. We get invited back into it, but we get and have ongoingly the freedom to keep choosing the new path. And that is about us responding and not reacting and having the presence of mind and the awareness of heart, um, being aware of, um, our thoughts and our feelings so that our behavior is changed. Um, so grateful that you wrote this book, Deborah. So grateful that you joined me on the podcast and so grateful that you don't just have counseling as a career, but it is a ministry of your own life. Thanks so much for joining me on the show.

Thank you for having me. Having me.