Kendra Adachi Discusses How to Manage Your Time Like a Lazy Genius

Y'all, Kendra Adachi is one of the most intriguing people I have ever talked to. Because if y'all know me, you know I'm all about living a life you love and being intentional about that and cooperating with God with what he's put in front of you, but what he's put in you to do your part to make that happen. I'm all about that. So you can imagine when I first got introduced to Kendra and talked to her about The Lazy Genius Way, I was intrigued by her then, but now she has a new book out called The Plan, and this takes that even further. There are so many things that stress us out, y'all, about trying to plan. And every year, everybody's looking around for their, their best planner or the planner that's gonna make their life different, or this system, or they're gonna take a class or workshop. And there's nothing wrong with any of those things, but so much of what you do to live your life well and intentionally is about a mindset, not about a system. Or even a tool. It's that you think a certain way about your life. And Kendra is a master at teaching us how to do that. So welcome Kendra to the show.

Oh, those are so nice. Such nice words. Thanks, Chrystal Hurst. I always love talking to you. I still remember our last conversation. It is rare that I get off an interview and I'm like, can we have number— can we have each other's number? Because that was so fun.

So I'm so happy to be back with you. It was fun. Okay. So This is intriguing to me. I'm, I'm sitting here wondering if you're gonna bust all of my bubbles because, because, okay, so since I was a 20-year-old, um, I'm a writer by nature. I'm a list maker by nature. And since I was in my twenties, um, I used to go to the Franklin Covey store. And so I learned how to set my goals that way and how the most important things were an A, and the mid-important things were a B, and the not so important things were a C. And then I had to order my A's, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And I also know the stress of putting all those things on my list for today and for the bulk of them having to draw an arrow to the next day 'cause I had to move it over. But you know, I was indoctrinated by that, right? And so I've read the books, Getting things done. You know, I've read my, my, my share of productivity. So I just, I have been doused from my twenties until now in honestly, how can I get it all in? So I know that I'm an Enneagram 3, if people are into that. I know if they're into StrengthsFinders, I'm an Achiever. We recently took another test and I was the extreme of, you know, race to the finish line, get it done. I know that I'm a recovering perfectionist. I know that. Um, but what I have found is we all have limits and sometimes our limits are what teach us that the way we are approaching getting things done is actually not the best way to get things done. So I myself have talked about some of the best ways for me to, um, identify my to-dos is before I look at my to-dos, before I make a list, before I even look at what I had to do yesterday, I kind of lay in the bed for a second because our brains are amazing and our bodies are amazing and they let certain things rise to the surface. So I've been, I've ping-ponged is what I'm trying to say from the, to the most, to the ABCs, to the lay in the bed and let it rise. Um, I even, I even have, uh, recently even launched a planner where I'm trying to take all that. Listen, trying to take what works for me and, you know, but I realized that we, like, we're all differently. So one of the things that I realized from talking to you the first time is that there are principles that we can adopt for living in that, you know, instead of trying to borrow this, this scripted process, for lack of a better way to say it, that there are ways that we can think about our lives in ways that we can operate, um, so that we are not unnecessarily stressed out with moving things forward. And so you covered these 13 principles. Um, some of those were, you know, starting small, deciding once, um, going in the right order, making sure you have rest as a part of your schedule. But here you are with a new book that says, okay, plants. I'm totally intrigued because I'm like, she just told me to relax and now she's telling me to plant. So, so I love it. I know, I know you're not, I know you're not contradicting yourself, but yeah, I would love to know a little bit more about if I want to be a principled person, um, where does this just kind of an overarching thesis statement, where does this new book from you fit, um, in connecting the dots from where you left us off last?

It's a great question. I, You mentioned limits just a second ago. You know, we all have limits. And they do, they teach us things. What I uncovered when I started to think about like, what is this book going to be? You know, I love talking about time management. It's the thing that people want to hear from me the most about. And you know how it is, you're a writer, you're an author, like you kind of have to find the book. Like you don't really always fully know what it's going to be. You think you know, you think you know when the publishers are You think you know, but you really have to go on this almost treasure hunt, this fact-finding mission of you write a lot to find the book. And so I knew I was going to write a book about time management, but I wasn't necessarily, not confident, that's not the right word. I wasn't sure. I just wasn't sure what all the boundaries of it were going to be and the real purpose of it was going to be. And in the process of researching and going and finding this book, I, I realized that the, you know, that Franklin Covey store that you're going in, all of these self-help books that we have read, all these productivity books that we've read over the years, that I have read over the years, that I've learned a lot from over the years. I want to make that very clear. I am not saying that the things inside those pages have led us astray or are wrong or that we need to throw them out. That's not true. But what I uncovered was that all of those, we'll say most of those books, and in general, the productivity industry, especially in America, where we are told as part of the American dream that there are no limits, that the whole point of living is to reach your fullest potential. And fulfill your greatest dreams. And you hustle and you sweat and you work so hard, you know, that we have like the greatest work ethic and all of these things. And none of that is bad. But when that's the water that we swim in of get it done, capitalize on this thing, optimize this thing, everything is great, there are no limits to what you can do. Then what's, what's a normal to do with that when we're just trying to like, not live in chaos in our own homes, or at least a little less chaos than is just naturally going to be there? Like we live in a productivity-fueled culture where there are no limits. And I don't think that's how God made us. Like, it's, it is, it is not, it is, it is against the creation. It's against the gospel in that we are, I mean, think about the, all the metaphors that are small, the small metaphors in scripture, you know, about seeds, you know, and children, um, that there is a, there's this attitude that we want to bring of, of daily bread and contentment, and that we are not the ones that are meant to be great. You know, that God is what is great and that we are, we are bringing Him glory through how we're made. And that's beautiful. And sometimes that's on bigger stages, but that this idea of greatness, which the productivity culture, that's the goal that they set out for us in a country that loves greatness, is that we are supposed to be great and we're supposed to have everything optimized and that we are supposed to create a life In the invisible future, what is your ideal life going to look like? And then you're going to reverse engineer that invisible future life to today. And then every single day needs to maximize every opportunity to get you to that future life. And if you don't, then you're not disciplined, you're breaking promises to yourself, you're not doing enough. Like, this is— and as I started to, you can imagine, as I'm writing this book, I'm like, oh my gosh. This is such a bigger problem than I ever thought it was. We are swimming in water that is telling us we are constantly behind. And if you believe in Jesus and you want to live a life that honors Jesus, that energy is not even— it's antithetical to the energy we want to bring into our lives anyway. We want to be present where we are. We want to see people for who they are. We want to have empathy and compassion and contentment in what God has given us today. I don't bring that particular piece into the book very much. There's one page where I talk about faith. But this is a very gospel-centered message. Like, whether you believe in the gospel or not, it is a very gospel-centered message. So, the connection to The Lazy Genius Way is that we have these principles that we've been living with. And it's kind of like your— like your drawer or your, you know, little urn in the kitchen of like all your kitchen tools that you use. And you kind of know like, oh yeah, this is a good one for right now. This spatula is good for this task, you know. The plan is almost like the cookbook. It is, okay, here we go. This is our purpose for our lives and how we want to live. Our purpose is not greatness. It is integration. It is to be who we are, where we are. That's the goal. And we don't start from the invisible future. We start today. We start where we are today. It doesn't mean we ignore the future and it doesn't mean that we can't have ambitions or big dreams. It just means that the goal is integration and we start with today. And if we're starting in a different place and we have a different purpose, we need different principles and strategies to get there. To live, we need different ways to see it. So the 13 Lazy Genius principles are interwoven with some new time management principles, a new time management framework, and then some new strategies to be compassionate in managing your time.

So when you say that, uh, made the statement that the goal is integration for us to be who we are, where we are today, I can see someone listening and saying, but that's the whole point. I don't want to be who I am, where I am today. Now that, that could be said by a person who's mothering small children and as committed as she is, and maybe she's given up her income to do that. She'll say that because that's how she feels, even though she is intentionally making the choice to do that. And I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about, oh my God, I don't want to be doing this today. I'm talking about actually people who are doing something that they don't even know how they got there. You know, so the first thing that comes to mind, of course, is work. It's like, I want to be who I am, where I am today. But actually, I hate this job. And actually, I'm trying to, I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out how to change a career, get a promotion, find another company, you know, get, get education. So what does that mean to the person who, who they are and where they are today is actually something they want to change? How, how do I reconcile that statement with the reality that some people have as they listen to us talk today?

That's such a good question. That's such a good, kind question. And In the same way that I'm like, you know, looking at this new paradigm doesn't mean we throw out all the things that we've learned from these books that we've read in this industry that we have. Being who you are, where you are today, doesn't mean you love it. It doesn't mean that you're settling for it or that you are accepting it blindly and like, well, this is just what it is. One of the 13 Lazy Genius principles is to live in your season. And I wrote that book before COVID happened. It released in August of 2020. And I remember that chapter. I was, I remember reading, writing that one and being like, man, I just, this one feels, this one feels weird to me. There's something about this that in me is not really hitting. But everybody else that read it through the editorial process was like, this is great. And then COVID happened. And did you know that that is the principle that everybody went to talk to me about that principle. It was so transformative because of the unique, difficult season we were all in. None of us wanted to be where we were then, where we were that time. Like, that was awful. And you're right, there's so many examples of that. But living in your season does not mean that you're like, "Yeah, all right, I guess." It's not about giving up. It's not complacency. It's about honoring how you're feeling. It's actually saying, "I don't want to be here." That's living in your season is honoring how you're feeling about it. It's saying, "I really, really don't like this." Being who I am where I am today is saying, "I don't like this job. I don't like this job." But that you are kind to yourself as you say those things, that you are aware that you can't fix it all in one— big fell swoop that you kind of have to do what is yours to do today. And some of that might be a small step. Again, start small. That's another Lazy Genius principle. It might be a small step that you're taking in the direction of that future. There's nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with looking at the future and saying, this is what I want, and reverse engineering it and doing things every single day. But if you only see your day as valuable If you are walking towards that future in a very productive way every single day at the expense of, say, the energy that you have that day, the grief that's sneaking up on you because of a loss you experienced a year ago, that you have eyes of everything sucks and I hate everything, you are like really despondent without some tiny, tiny awareness of there is good here. I don't see it, but there is good here. And I'm going to trust that where I am, even though it's not where I want to stay, that this is where I am today. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna trust that when I go to sleep tonight, that I'm not gonna resent God for this place that I'm in. And guess what? Even if you do, The Psalms are full of those. And so you can still be kind to yourself in that too. It is being who— whoever you are today, wherever you are today, that there is a kindness and acceptance there. And that there is at least a little bit of just your eyes open to the smallest bit of goodness or contentment that you can see, the presence of God where you are. Like God is here, even if I don't see it, even if it feels completely, completely silent, I'm going to trust as I go to sleep that God is still here.

That's good. So being present means paying attention to where you are right now and not skipping that because you're constantly working towards some future goal. Am I giving that back to you in a way that sounds cohesive?

I think so. If you, if, uh, we, I don't want us to. I don't want people who find the pursuit of the future to be inadequate. Some people love pursuing the future. This concept is not for everyone. This paradigm does not have to be for everyone. But if pursuing the future constantly leaves you feeling like you're always behind and exhausted, then it's— then perhaps what you're doing is you are sacrificing today for the sake of later.

Hmm.

And I don't, I don't want us to have to do that. You can be where you are today and still look ahead. So let's also be where we are today. So yes, yes, you did say that, right?

Yes. I love that. That's so good. Okay. So one of the things I know that, um, that you talk about in the book is how to make a better to-do list. And some of us make our to-do lists on our sticky notes and they're everywhere. Some of us use our Apple Notes or Um, you know, maybe we have an Android phone and then there's a, I think it's Google Keep. Maybe there are, I mean, I have notepads, you know, I'm, I'm writing as we're talking, but I have notepads everywhere.

Um, same.

I just need to capture things. Um, you know, and then now if it's really long and I, I'm driving and I don't wanna forget it, I'm gonna leave myself a voice note. And so, you know, and then the goal of my life becomes aggregating all those random things.

That's right.

Because it's like, it's data entry. It's like, yes, it's like, you know, and I'm getting it down. Like I'm taking notes, I'm, I'm, you know, curating my thoughts, but then I have to organize them. So I literally have, and because I've read too many productivity books, I have something in my Apple Notes right now called Fleeting Notes. I don't know where I got that from. There's a German guy with productivity that had a note card system, and I was trying to do that. Then I was like, this is too complicated. I can't do that. But I did take that one thing from it. He said, it's just this one place. I have this one long note in Apple Notes, and I feel the weight of every day. It's long. And did I leave something off? Right. So I'm just constantly adding to the top. So there is the to-do list that some people make. They get their planner out and they only in that in one spot, put the list of things that they have to do for today. But because I have a very highly involved life in different segments, as most of us do, I have church, I have home, I have work, I have ministry, you know, and I've got 3, you know, I've got book deadlines, I've got these different things. I end up with a to-do list that is hard to manage. Every now and then I feel like I'm on top of things. I feel like, okay, it, it all, and I didn't even mention Asana. You know, we got our team in Asana. I got to-do lists there. So, um, um, But to-do list is a thing that either, even if you keep it in one place, everything that comes to your mind or everything that you write down is not for today and you have to manage that list. Or if you're like me and you don't write things down in one place and you're just dropping them in buckets, at least they're in buckets, but they're in various buckets because the leak is everywhere. I would love to know, I would love to know what help you offer here for those of us who are swimming in to-dos.

Yeah, because we sure are. I love that, the leaky bucket. Yeah, there's a whole chapter. There's a whole chapter in the book about to-do lists, and it was so fun to write. And I think a couple of the things that are the most, like, small steps that are most transformative. The first one is that the way that you make a to-do list today compared to another season of life, even like in a couple of weeks, or, you know, if you're on your period and you're like, all I can be is in the bed, where is the sticky, like put a sticky note on someone's head and walk to the kitchen and you guys do what you can, you know, um, that the way that you choose to manage your tasks today does not have to be how you manage your tasks forever. That there are different seasons of life where we need different strategies.

And so if it's changing, I'm not broken. If, if, if it doesn't work for me, if I can't keep up, it's not that there's something wrong with me. I may need a different method.

In fact, I think that when we change things, it means we're well, it means we're being wise. It means we're paying attention to the season we're in. That is another thing that we've been taught in this productivity culture. It's set it and forget it. You're supposed to figure out what works and then ride it until you die. That's just not how life goes. It's not how life goes. We're not a machine. So changing your mind, changing what works is paying attention to the season you're in. And that's a very wise thing to do. So that's the first thing that I will say. The second thing is that I think that our lists, and you just kind of said this, I think that our lists rise to the level of difficulty of the hardest thing on it. Or like the longer it is, the more— even if it's like a lot of tiny things, the longer it is, the more overwhelming it is. But if there's something on that list that's like super, super hard, it everything else just feels extra hard.

Yeah.

And, and so not saying that you have to change how you make the list necessarily, but just to kind of step back and know that like, okay, I'm looking at this list and something on here that's really, really difficult is sort of casting a pallor on the rest of it. And I'm just noticing that and telling myself the truth about what that is. Okay. And then I think practically one of the third thing, one of the things that makes our to-do lists very unwieldy and overwhelming is that we often put singular projects on our to-do list. Our items are too big.

Yeah, 100%.

That you put, you know, buy Christmas presents on your to-do list next to go to the post office. Those are two very different things. Those have— those require— buying Christmas gifts requires its own whole thing. It's a whole project. It has multiple steps and multiple decisions. And even things that are small, like I'm going to show you this right now, even things that are small, like going to the post office, is not just going to the post office. Like I have on Wednesday, because I just write mine by day, I'm going to show this to you. Like, I just have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and on Wednesday I have return library books. Do you know what I have written on Tuesday? Gather library books. Because if I am like, oh yeah, we need to run to the library after school pickup, but I don't have those books gathered, we're not going to the library. If you're going to the post office, have you printed out all the return slips for the things that you've got to return? Have you packaged up the things? Have you addressed what it is that you have to drop off? Do you have your PO box key if you're checking your PO box. Like, there are so many things hidden in our tasks. And the more that we start to notice that, it actually becomes less overwhelming because you can start to do it a little bit more intuitively. If you go, "Oh, we need to return the library books," you start to know like, "Where are those? I need to gather those. I also need to write that down." The smaller you make your tasks, the quicker you can check them off. The more doable they all feel, and the easier they are to move from day to day so that you're not just like procrastinating this entirely too huge project further and further down the road. You actually do make a little bit more progress on those things because you have made them smaller.

Hey there, do you ever feel like life is just too much, that there's a lot of things things to do, not enough time to do everything in. And also when you have to prioritize. Prioritization. What's that? Do you want to live an intentional life and are struggling to figure out how to do that? Well, here's the deal. I want to help you. I'm a coach who has put together a planner to help you have the best of planning an intentional life coupled with someone to help you do just that. My name is Chrystal Hurst, and this is The Full Circle Planner. I meet you at the beginning and the end of each year, at the beginning and end of each quarter, at the beginning and the end of each month to make sure that you are paying attention to your life, focusing on what matters, and putting the important things in the right order. Because sometimes, y'all, it's not just about a to-do list. It's about doing things well. And I can tell you, you will not be able to do things well if you don't look at your life and sometimes we all need a little help to do that. So I've put the best of me as your coach in the best of a tool, a beautiful tool at that, to plan your life. I want you to get this planner. Let me help you plan your life so that you can live the life you love. Get your Full Circle Planner today. Let me ask you this. I know, I know in this chapter you said lists are useful because they document what we ordinarily Forget. Um, and you said, so what's the solution to managing this to-do list? You said lighten the load. And that's what we're talking about. Like, don't have the heavy thing on there. But again, I'm trying to take off my historical project brain, which is hard to unlearn. It is very hard. So if I, and I have learned this not so much because it's been hard for me, um, but as I kind of manage a team and think about how we get things done. Starting— I'm realizing that even for our team, starting with the end and working backwards is overwhelming for many. And one of the things that you talk about and you already said it and you progress in the book this way when you work on the strategies is starting with today and then going to a week. And so my brain would be afraid that if I started with today that I would run out of runway.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Yeah. Like I was saying, okay, I'm gonna start with today. What needs to be done? Well, I can't do all that today, so I'm gonna do this tomorrow. And that by the time I take it bit by bit, that I needed 3 weeks to get it done and I only had a week and then I still ended up cramming it on Saturday. So like, I can literally feel that in my body, the fear of starting with what's on my brain today. Because what if I— Um, so I do understand both issues that if you start with it too big and then try to break it down, that it might be overwhelming for some to do it backwards, engineer it. And then also starting on the front, the fear that, okay, I can do this bit by bit every day, but what if I don't give myself enough time to do it? So how do you, how do you help me with that fear of starting with today and moving forward?

I think it's what matters most in the season that you're in. And you bring, you're going to bring your whole self to the table here. So if you know, if someone listening, if you know that like, oh man, yeah, starting from the end and breaking it down. I mean, if you're, if you have ADHD, that is like actually impossible for you to do. Like your brain does not process information that way. Breaking something huge down into small steps is not, is really, really difficult. You need very specific tools to help you do that. There are certain personalities that make that difficult. If you are in a season of life that you already mentioned where you really don't like where you are, starting from the future some days feels really defeating because you're like, "But I'm not there. I'm not there." So in the same way that you will change your mind about your specific to-do list strategy depending on what's going on in your life, depending on the season of life you're in, depending on your personality, you're going to do the same for where you begin when you're kind of breaking that down. The Lighten the Load framework, I love it so much because it's— It's kind of like, you know, those, those gear toys? They're like rainbows, they're like rainbow colors, and you put them all on the little spokes. And it doesn't really matter what order they go in, but you do have to make sure they line up a little bit. If you spin one, they all spin. But even if you put one on a spoke, on the spoke, and you spin it, it's still gonna spin. You know, you're spinning it with your finger, but it's still spinning. The Light in the Load framework, you could use it in its entirety as a framework, or you could read the entire thing and you're like, holy moly. I love this idea of triaging by urgency. I love now, soon, later, never mind that Kendra explains in this book. Like, you look, you can make a big old list, you've got your big old list wherever it is or in the multiple places that it is. And then you can say every day, you're going to look at that list and you're going to go, okay, what's now? What's soon? What's later? And what's never mind? What do we not need to worry about right now? And the more that you get into the practice of that and you find like a little rhythm in that, it might feel more accessible to go, okay, now what season am I in? What's coming up over the next 3 months that I— is gonna— that there are gonna be projects in front of me that I am going to have to break down in some ways, which a lot of life really is projects, right? And so it's kind of, it's almost like, you know, this analogy is used a lot, but you know, the oxygen mask on a plane, you know, you put your own mask on before. In some ways, it's like, give today an oxygen mask. Like, today, just as much as you're able, even if it's like, okay, this is the most important thing today. And that important thing might be kindness, because I'm feeling real overwhelmed with all that's in front of me. And it doesn't mean that I'm going to ignore everything else, but I'm really going to prioritize being kind to myself today in chaos. And if it doesn't get done, tasks do stretch to the time you allow them. And my future self is also very smart. So it's going to be all right. It's going to be all right. That might be what you need today. And then I mean, even saying that, like, I think that changes our body chemistry. You know, when we sort of give ourselves permission to be like, you know what? Nothing's going to catch on fire. It's going to be all right. Like, even if I don't get this stuff done today, it doesn't mean I'm a terrible person. It doesn't mean I'm bad at time management. It doesn't mean that someone— that I'm— it might mean that you're doing too much, but it doesn't necessarily mean you need to give it all up right now. It just might need to go in a different order, which is why Go in the Right Order is a Lazy Genius principle. Sometimes it's not that you're doing the wrong things, they're just in a weird order and you could shuffle them a little differently when you've got some energy to do that. So there's just this like open-handedness. Of start at the end, start at the beginning, start where you are, start with a lot, start with a little. Like, pay attention to what you need. And if it's different than what you needed yesterday or last week, or like, I think about, I used to be so productive, Chrystal Hurst. I used to just get it done. And now I am almost 43 and my body's like, You're cute. We don't do that anymore. You have limits that you did not used to have. And sometimes I'm really deeply frustrated by that, especially in busy seasons like this one of launching a book. I have 3 kids in 3 different schools. I'm the president of the band booster club at the middle school. There's all these random things that are going on. And also, I just want to read. I want to have time to read.

Listen, can I just stop you there? Can I just stop you there? Somebody asked me, a woman who's 82 asked me, cause I just talked about this last Monday in our inner circle about dreaming, because she asked me, Chrystal, you're 52 and she's 82. And she says, you know, just such a baby. Um, she said, but I want to know in this season of your life, uh, what are your dreams and goals? It wasn't the goals part that got me because goals I understand should be bigger than work and bigger than the things that I'm muscling through right now. But I do attach that word more to those things. Dreams is the word that got me. And I realize that I am currently, which is great, living on the fumes of the dreams I had in my 20s. Now I'm living them, so it's good. And I talk about dreaming and goal setting all the time. But when she asked me that, once I took it away from work and took it away from the things I'm building, just life. I felt so insufficient in my answer, which is why I am totally vibing with what you just said, because my answer was truly my dream is to have more time to read until I want to close the book or until I fall asleep, and then to write until I'm empty and everything else to come after that. Like, yeah. And so, so when we talk about dreams so often, I feel like it is attached to get the job, get the doctorate degree. It is attached to productivity. What did I do with my life instead of what are the dreams for my enjoyment of my life?

Right, right. Oh, I love that. I love your 82-year-old friend who asked you that question. And, and I, I think that's, I, I have a chapter about, uh, I think it's called What to Do with Goals and Dreams.

Sitting here looking at it right now.

There it is. There it is. Because some people, Like myself, I have a really complicated relationship with goals and dreams because they were everything. They were the fuel of everything and I never met them. I never did what I was supposed to do. I never felt they were right. I lived my life in service of those things and I didn't even know that I wanted them. I just was— I thought we were supposed to have goals. Every planner starts with goals and there's nothing wrong with having goals. But I'm like, what if I— I remember, I mean, the number of times I've opened a new planner, you know, on December 29th or whatever, like ready to chart my year. And I'm looking at these things and they're like, what do you want in a year? And I'm like, I don't— I mean, I don't know. I mean, I guess I'll come up with something. And it just became so stressful. For some people, it's not. For some people, it's deeply energizing and life-giving, and I'm so glad. But there is a subset of people that finds goals and dreams to be so deeply overwhelming. And then also possibly attached to things that are unhealthy for them. For 15 years of my life, every goal I set was about the shape of my body. Every single one.

Wow.

And not in a good way. Not in a good way. And so there was this— any time I would set— it still happens. Any time I set a goal now, I have not yet detached the muscle memory of my goals from something that was harmful to me to something that I actually like really want. Like I'm, I'm actively working on that. I'm also an Enneagram 1, for people who are in Enneagram. And so my finish line is always moving. Like perfect is never, is never achievable. You might as well keep going. Like, and I think in this job of being an author, I don't know if you feel this way, but like, You can always do better. You can always sell more. You can, even if you hit number one in something, well, can you stay there? Can you stay there for longer? Like there's, it just never ends. And so I have had to, for my own mental health, I have had to kind of detach myself almost completely from goals and dreams that are big. And what that detachment has done is it has allowed me to see. That big dreams and big goals are not necessary for your life to be valuable. They're not necessary. That doesn't mean that you can't have them and that they don't bring you a lot of fulfillment. It just means that if you don't have big dreams and goals, if you don't have them, or if you set them and you don't reach them as quickly as you wanted or as successfully as you wanted, or it looks differently than you thought because that's what life is, it doesn't detract from the value of them or from your life itself. Or if you don't have big dreams at all, if you're like, my dream is I want to be able to have time to read my book. I want to love my people well. And I want to read. Listen, I'm into that life. That sounds awesome to me. And so this, we, we've seen, we see that. As like settling, as being lazy, as not being ambitious. Again, it's the water we swim in that you gotta have a big dream. Like, if you— I mean, I remember a woman who kind of would speak in the self-help industry a bit. And she said, if you don't have a big dream, it means you're not trying to dream hard. You're not dreaming hard enough. It's your fault, basically. And I was like, that's so messed up. Like, we have to have— there's another place we have to have pressure, and it's about our dreams? Can we just like go to bed and fall asleep reading and wake up in the morning and like look at my birds in my bird feeder and drink my coffee and kiss my kid? And like, that's a beautiful life to me. I find that tremendously valuable. They both— whether you have big dreams or not, or whatever happens with them, it does not make your life as a whole count more. At least that's what I believe.

I agree. I agree. I think, you know, even with the word we're using, dream, I mean, just with what I've learned and continue to learn about people, um, there are people who dream. Like it's, it's a part of the DNA. It's, it's like, and we love family. Yeah.

I love family.

You know, it's like they can be visionaries, but, but I think we need to redefine what a, what a dream is. That if, you know, if dream, like you said, means that I'm having my cup of coffee, watching the birds and kissing my children every day. And so the dream is that I was present with my people and the legacy I'm leaving is love from all the little things that I did. The dream did not involve a climb to the top of the mountain and it didn't involve some kind of conquest or some kind of achievement. It was, you know, I read in a book years ago, and I'm paraphrasing here, but it said, "I wonder if the Jewish women who swept their dirt floors, if they realized the impact to the holistic journey of a nation." Because really, when you look at the history of Jews throughout time and the amount of grit, honestly, over numerous, you know, occasions, I mean, I would say the same thing about the African American journey. Did the mothers who were sweeping the floors or doing the hair or that didn't have a culminating thing, does their effort of the dream for children that are loved, cared for, and challenged mean any less from Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad or from, you know, from a story, the stories that we read about the Holocaust, they— everything adds up.

It all counts. It all counts.

Yeah, it all counts. And you get to decide what that means for you. I know that in this same Goals and Dreams chapter, I was— I had it open when you started talking about it. And I'm so glad that you held up your notebook. Which is just a notebook. And I think people think in order to have goals and a dream or in order to work them what their way from big to small or small to great, starting with today or starting with forever, they need the right tool. So I'm curious about your tool. If even as you built this framework, did you have this framework already when you started writing it or as the book wrote it, did that change the way you use your notebook?

That's a great question. I have mostly—

And you took the time to draw the lines. I want to give you credit for drawing the lines. I did.

So I tried, okay, a broader concept here that is in the plan that I think is super, super important is the plan framework. And it's actually an acronym. This is a good transition into the very specific part of my planner. So PLAN stands for Prepare, Live, Adjust, and Notice. And it's actually set up like a pyramid. The base of the pyramid is something we've talked about many times so far in this conversation, is what matters right now in your season. Where are you? What, what season are you in? And what are you needing to prioritize where you are? Because you can't do everything, right? So what matters to you in your season? Then the three sides of that pyramid are Prepare, Adjust, and Notice. And the point, both literally in the pyramid and metaphorically in what we're talking about, is to live. Okay? And there are principles for all of those and it's fine. But what is so, so important that I think the productivity industry misses, they teach us to prepare 100%. It's all about preparation. It's all about setting yourself up for success. And what I'm offering is that in equal parts, we still need preparation. That's very important still. But in equal parts, we also need to develop the practices of adjusting in small ways, like what's working and what's not. Don't blow it up. Don't throw it all out with the big black trash bag energy. Like, you don't have to buy a new planner every 2 months because this one isn't working in the way that you wanted it to, you know, that you can make small adjustments. We need the practice of making small adjustments and then noticing Like, notice what's working. Pay attention to the small things that are working. Notice what's happening. Like, in the planner, could be working really well on a practical level, but when you pick it up at the time that you, you know, fill it out for the next day or whatever, and you're like, uh, maybe like notice that feeling. And even though it's like practically helping you, is there a way to diminish Is there something you can do to adjust the way that you are preparing so that you can diminish that feeling a little bit? It might be that you just do it in a more pleasant place, or maybe it's like, maybe you are doing— maybe you're feeling a little close to a robot than a human, and part of the reason is because of the way that the planner is working. Or maybe your season of life requires that, and so you just need to be kind to yourself as you're groaning about it. Like, there needs to be equal energy given to preparation, adjusting, and noticing. And that's sort of the whole foundation of the plan. So all of that said, you can do that in everything, right? You do that in everything. But for my own notebook, I mean, I've— the number of planners I have, I think the first page of the whole book about how many planners I bought. I love planners. I mean, they're my favorite. I love notebooks. I actually have grown to love notebooks more than planners.

Agreed. Agreed.

Because I have tried about every planner that one could try. And I think because they're just— it's not my own life. It's not asking questions that I necessarily want to ask. And it's not my weeks and my days don't always require the same thing. So I like the versatility of coming up with my own thing. So over time, I have adjusted little by little, little by little how I use my notebook. So I'm going to do this so you can sort of see how. So on one, I'm like going backwards. So on one side, this is a couple weeks ago. So I go week by week because I like to look at my week. I'm trying to figure out where my camera is. I'm going this way. On one side is like a brain dump. So this is everything. And I usually try to do a little line here that's work and home. And then this is sort of the one next to it is kind of like, I don't know, just random place for notes or whatever. And then on the other side is weekend. It's like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, weekend. And I do my best to take from the big list things that I'm like, "Well, I know this is going to happen on this day." But I don't move it from the big list unless I know I can do it that day. Otherwise it stays there. And then I might add it on the day once I get there, if I'm like, "Oh yeah, that's probably going to work." And then if something does not, if it's done, it's highlighted. If it doesn't get done and it still needs to get done, I use the Bullet Journal, um, the little notes.

The little circles.

A little, a little, a white grid with the arrow.

Because we couldn't do the whole thing. We couldn't do the whole Bullet Journal thing. We couldn't do the whole thing. But we could take little pieces of it.

Yes. You take what works for you.

Yeah.

And, and that way you don't lose something. And then sometimes there will be something on there where I'm like, oh. I'm not doing that. I was going to design a pretty flyer for open house for the Booster Club. I'm going to use the one I used last year. I'm not making a new one. So I cross it out, you know, and then I, and I set this up on Saturdays or Sundays for the next week. But honestly, this notebook, when I got it, when I had some energy and I had my pens out, really, I just had the one pen and I was feeling good. Like I used to use multiple colors for my highlighters. I just use one now.

It's too much work.

It's a gold color. It's too much work. I just use one. I made it really simple, but I have already mapped out my weeks all the way through the end of the year.

That's great.

Because I don't really use empty pages between my weeks anymore. I've just learned that about myself, and it's easier for me to go like, all right, let's just go ahead and do all the weeks. And that way, if something comes up on my Google Calendar, I can put it on the calendar, but I can go— like, for example, I use this example a lot. My kid, my two of my kids are in band and they're just the most random things that kids need for band. Yeah, like they're doing a jazz night and so they need like a fedora or they're doing this performance at this thing and they're all going to wear Hawaiian shirts. Like, I'm so randomly I have to find a fedora. And so I can know when I get that, that email from the band director, there's this event in 6 weeks and I put that on my Google calendar. But I also see in there that we need a fedora. And so I'll pull up my little notebook and like 3 weeks before that event, I'll just write, "Get fedora." I mean, I have things on my to-do list for work because of the book launch season that I'm in that are spaced out appropriately so I'm not overwhelmed, you know. But my brain— hear me, everybody who's listening. If you're like, "I could never do that," that's okay. I'm not necessarily here to teach you how to do that because not every brain works that way. But in the same way that we can borrow a bullet journal symbol, you can borrow one thing from the chapter, from the to-do list chapter, or one thing from what I just said and adjust what you're currently doing. And it actually might make things a little bit easier for you. The goal is not for you to do exactly what I do or exactly what Chrystal Hurst does. That's just not real life for anyone. It's for you to pay attention to what you need in this season of life. And you equally prepare, notice what's working, adjust a little bit to kind of get a little closer. It might change your preparation a bit because the whole point of all of this is to live every day and not be swallowed by it.

That's so good. And I, and I love the fact that, you know, the start from Lazy Genius and Eve, the start here is about principles. Um, and how, you know, you have to have the freedom and the flexibility in every season of your life to not only live it the way that works for you, but to plan it the way that works for you and to document that in a way that works for you.

Sure.

And there have been seasons where if it didn't live on a Post-it note around my laptop, it was not real, you know, because getting to the notebook wasn't a thing. So I think the freedom. Is super important. The other thing that I love is, you know, you divided your book into 3 sections. So the principles, the strategies, and then the pep talk. And I think the pep talk is probably the most important part because what happens is we fall off the edge because something that we thought would work a certain way is not working. So we think, well, now I don't know what system to use or something's defunct with me. And half the battle, whether we, you talk about coaching and holding people accountable, or you talk about, um, moving forward in something that you think will work for you in this season, documenting or otherwise, is when it stops working or when you are feeling overwhelmed or underneath the weight of it all is just a pep talk. It's like, you know what I mean?

That's right. Sometimes that's all you need.

That's all you need. So when I looked at this, I was like, these are the feelings. These are the feelings. Yes. When I can't say no, give me a pep talk. When I don't have help, I literally thought this morning, oh my gosh, I need help. When you're just so tired, like, these are the things that people who are trying to live in the present or trying to build for the future, either or both, that you kind of just fall off the wagon and you need somebody to just say, hey, listen, I know this is going to happen. And so I love that you built it in. Who gives you your pep talks? Where do your pep talks come from?

What a good question, Chrystal Hurst. You ask the best questions. This is why I love talking to you. Like, surprises me every time. That is such a good question. So I am a verbal processor in that, like, I'm an external processor. So I don't always know how I feel about things until I say them out loud. And, um, and I've learned over years of therapy and, um, the Enneagram has been an incredibly helpful tool for me to understand myself in a compassionate way. I've learned to kind of notice, using one of those, those PLAN acronym words, I've started to notice in my body, because that's a principle in the book is your body is wise. That's a way that we want to notice what our body is telling us. It's very wise. God made it to be incredibly informative and a beautiful part of who we are. And so I know what's— when my body is like, I I start to talk higher and faster. I feel like I can't quite catch my breath. I get a little like overheated. When I'm feeling like really overwhelmed and stressed, the exact same things happen in my body. And I've learned to notice those and stop and take a deep breath and go, "Oh, something's happening here." But I don't know what it is yet because I haven't spoken it. I haven't found it in saying the words out loud. And so a lot of times, depending on what the stress, like, scenario is, like what the context is, then I will vox my best friend. I have, I have like a couple of people. I have my husband, I have my sister, I have my mom, I have a couple of really close friends. And I will just sort of go— I even have my team. Sometimes it's a stressor about work and I go to my director of ops and I'm like, I'm like, "Leslie, what's going on?" And I'll just kind of go, "Blah, blah, blah," and then we'll find it. Sometimes after the dump, the verbal dump, I've given myself a pep talk. I'm like, "Oh, that didn't matter as much as I thought it did. We're okay. All right." Sometimes you can give yourself a pep talk. A lot of times the reminders for me to calm down come from my best friend who's Emily P. Freeman. Who you, I think, are familiar with. And she's, she's an author and a podcaster and just lovely. And she's like, she is a spiritual director. And so like, she just has some really good tools for a caffeinated squirrel like me. So when I am feeling like out, out of it, and I just need someone to sort of bring me down and remind me what matters, she's so, so good at doing that. But I love that question because I don't know that I knew the answer until I said the answer. I think it was pretty obvious. It's the people. It's the people in my life and the Holy Spirit just being like, hey, we're good, girl. You are fearfully and wonderfully made. Everything's fine. Like, I've got this daily bread. I'm taking care of the birds and the flowers. Like, you're all right. And so, but I love the fact that you asked that question because I want everybody to listen to answer that for themselves. Like, I am not the only source of pep talks. Chrystal Hurst is not the only source of pep talks. Like, there's no singular person who is the source of pep talks for you. And so just to name that for yourself and go like, "Oh, man." And if you're like, "Well, I don't know. I don't know who gives me pep talks. I kind of feel like I have to do it myself a lot, and that's a bummer. I need someone else to help me." Like, start to prioritize that. Seek that out. Notice the people that you talk to and you're like, "Oh." You know what it is? That friend is actually really good at giving pep talks, but I just never tell her when I'm struggling. Tell her when you're struggling. Let her speak into what's going on with you and encourage you, you know? So I love, I love that question. I want everybody to answer it for themselves.

That's such a great answer and an encouragement for everyone else to do the same. So, uh, after writing this book, this is, this is a question I don't always ask everyone, but I feel like you'll have an answer, even if you have to process your way through it.

I probably will.

Okay. After writing this book, you learned—

Oh, why does that question make me want to cry? I learned— So I love The Lazy Genius Way. And I'm incredibly proud of it. And if it's the only book I had ever written, I would consider my work incredibly worthwhile. Like, I genuinely love that book. I love The Lazy Genius Kitchen for women especially who are like always making food and in their kitchens and they might hate it and there are different things about it that are frustrating. You know, I feel like that book is a really beautiful tool that brings life to a room that I believe was meant to be full of life. For most people, the table is a beautiful— breaking bread is like a spiritual practice. And so I love those. When I finished writing The Plan, and it wasn't just writing it, it wasn't like, okay, manuscript is submitted. It was after a couple of people had read it. It was after my editor read it, my agent read it, who have been with me since the beginning, and their responses. Were so deeply encouraging because I do, I am wired for, I'm a responsive person. Really helps me for someone to reflect something back to me and to kind of not tell me how to feel about something, but it's just, it's empowering to hear what other people think about something, not just that I did, but just in general. And I The whole time I was writing this book, it felt very different than the other two. It felt like this is why my life has been what it is. I have a— I had an abusive childhood. I've had a lot of trauma to go through. I'm very— I am wired to see potential and systems and put things together. I believe God has taught— not taught me, I believe God has gifted me to— my spiritual gift is wisdom. And I believe that God has gifted me to make complicated things simpler. I think I've— there are just all these things that have come together. The fact that I happen to be a writer, you know, like I could have all these thoughts and not be good at writing. There's just this— it just felt like the alchemy of my entire life came together for this book. And after I was done, I learned, like, God was like— I just felt the Holy Spirit say, "And this, this is what it was all for." Because that's how freeing I think this message is. It's helpful and it's practical, but this idea that we can live a life with a goal of being who we are rather than who we're striving to become all the time, that everything is striving and hustle and greatness, and that we can honor today. We can honor where we are today. It doesn't mean we have to love it. It doesn't mean we want to stay there, but we can honor where we are. We can honor who we are in that place. Like having that complete paradigm shift is like my, my launch team has been able to read this book in advance and, um, it just makes me me. Like, we had a book club to kind of go through it last week. And like thinking about it is so humbling. And it just makes me emotional because it's an honor. It's like genuinely an honor to be a vessel for this message. And I don't think that I could have been that vessel without having the childhood that I did. And so just the redemptive nature, I'm not saying that like people's That's one of the wild things about suffering is that it doesn't have to be a teacher in order to count, but that God can use it as a teacher and something that makes us learn to receive His love better and love other people better. Like, that's just a gift. That's just a true, true gift. And so I feel like very like at, I feel honored, I feel humbled, I feel like at peace and so proud to be, to have all these pieces and parts to come together to make this book. And so, yeah, the thing I learned was like, this is what I've been, this is what I was supposed to do. I believe that this book is why, outside of like raising my family and loving my, my place where I am, as far as my work and my vocation, this is what I was called to do.

Wow.

And, um, and that's a— I never expected to feel that way. And that's a very powerful feeling that I'm super grateful for because I don't know that everybody always experiences it the way that I've experienced it. Um, but I'm genuinely really grateful.

That's so good. And it's so beautiful. And it is so clearly a testament of your life as an example. Which, uh, you know, of you living the message that you share so that you can share it. And sometimes we don't realize that that's what we're doing until we put it on paper.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree. Yeah.

So thanks for putting it on paper. I know.

Thank you.

I'm looking forward to taking, um, our girls through it and learning and learning to live better. And, uh, thanks for letting me interview you and joining me on the Sister Circle Podcast once again.

Oh, it was even better than the last time. I love talking with you, Chrystal Hurst. Thanks for having me.