Naomi Raine on Getting Comfortable in Your Calling

Y'all, I'm really excited. I'm excited about who I get to talk to today, but I'm excited about a lot of things. First of all, y'all know it's been a while since I've done a lot of my in-person interviews. I'm happy to be sitting down and in person with my friend today. I'm also happy, y'all, that I'm not running the cameras because normally I'm doing all the things. I'm happy that my hair is laying down and I'm not worried about any loose strings because I put some extra stuff on it to make sure it would sit straight. And I'm happy that I'm wearing clothes that hide a lot of things, 'cause y'all don't need to know about all the things that are going on up in here. The bottom line is, I'm excited because most importantly, I get to talk to Naomi Rains today. I'm so excited to have you here.

Thank you.

Oh my gosh. So we've been in each other's presence now long enough to know that we might be cut from a little of the same cloth, just a little bit.

It's the same cloth. It definitely is, yep.

Okay, so I told my husband, I said, you know, it's a busy day. I got a kid graduating tomorrow. I said, but Naomi's in town and I'm just trying to figure out if I just need to do it or do it another time. He said, girl, what's wrong with you? Strike while the iron's hot. She's here. So you're in my presence today. I have so many questions, but the most important one is this. This is the most important one.

Oh Lord, we're going to start with the most important one?

We're going to start with the most important one. Okay. We're going to start with the most important. You always look really cute. Like even when you're kind of laying low, You just look really cute. So I want to know, is cuteness the way you roll or is it what you have to do to be functional in the world we live in today?

Oh, Chrystal Hurst, this is the way I roll. I mean, I am rolling cute all the time. No. Okay. In real life.

In real life.

I don't think I would categorize myself as cute. So I'm very flattered, honored, grateful. I feel a little bit like an imposter because I do think I think that I have tried my best to meet the demands of my current situation, which is—

That was like total code. Hello?

I think, okay, so I used to do this thing. I used to sell albums when I would go and sing. Now you know—

Your CD.

My CD.

Okay.

I did a photo shoot for the CD, have a cover photo on the CD. But when I would go out to sing, I didn't have a—

Look like—

OK. And people would come to buy the CD, and they'd be like—

Well, where's your CD?

—is this you? So, you know, I decided a few years ago that I would put more effort into the way that I look.

Beauty is effort. Effort.

And I— if I'm honest, if you ask me, like, what's your style? My style is black leggings, a black hoodie, and a pair of 1s.

That's my style.

Style. And I, I know that that doesn't like fit into the category. You couldn't Google that. But, um, I'm trying.

Maybe we ought to create a category because that's my style. Okay, can we do that? I need a good comfy extra double X t-shirt because I need the extra room. I just want to— and I need everything that stretches with me. I want to feel like I got up out of bed and I don't—

I'm not wearing clothes. And this is what I'm saying.

Can we do that? We should do that forever. We should create a whole thing. We should name it And then, people will follow. 'Cause you know what you name, there's a whole sermon in that.

OK. I want you to know I'm down for this. I'm actually serious. You should do it. Anything that's comfy, flowy, like, can we just be comfortable?

Can we just stop pretending like we don't want to— we don't— OK, listen. When I go home after church on Sunday, I am just dying to get back to my state of equilibrium. Yo. Okay. This is a thing. It's a thing. It's a whole thing.

Okay, I have a whole conversation I wanna have with you without these cameras. They're not operating today, rolling, because I just like to stay here. I don't wanna do a lot of things. I just wanna stay here every day.

Okay, do you enjoy shopping clothes? Okay. We know you don't wanna be pinned up all the time, but in terms of when you make the effort, do you enjoy the journey?

In real life? Mm-hmm. No. OK. But there are moments that I'm like, oh, I'm going to go grab something. If I know— I'm the type of person, I want to know what I want and go get it. I don't like to browse and like, let's see what they have. But if I do stumble upon something, I'm excited. But I'm not ever thinking like, let's just go in the store, unless it's Target. Because then—

That's different. OK? Target is not just about clothes. Target is about your whole life. Do you understand? I totally understand. So Priscilla and I, and sister, and sisters-in-laws, and cousins, and all that, there used to be a day during the holidays where we would have a girls' day. And we would go have brunch, we would go see a movie, and in between brunch and the movie, there was shopping. Okay, we would go to the mall. My job was to bring my book. Their job was to shop. And I would just move with them from store to store, but I would sit in the hallway of the mall on the bench while they went in. If you find something in there that you think would be a blessing to me, I will come in, but I'm only coming in to try on that one thing you found, 'cause I don't enjoy it. And I remembered my dad and my mom, he would go with her shopping 'cause she loved to shop, but that's what he would do, he would take a book. So I was like, well, that works for me. Like that, I literally get hives if I go into Ross. It's too unorganized. No, that's a mess. I can't find anything. Mm-mm. It's just, it requires a high degree of focus and I don't wanna spend the focus that I do have on that. So I just, That's my feeling about the matter. There's that.

I think that that is really nice that you went with them. Because to me, I'm like, I'm stopping home. I'm going to be at Starbucks.

Y'all know where I'm at.

That's my praise right there. And then if I come in, then I'm just coming to talk. And I'm also trying to hurry you along. Like, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go.

OK. I'm so glad you're the people.

We could actually probably go shopping together.

We'd be in and out. In and out.

And we'd get what we want. And I'd probably just end up at a restaurant.

I just like to eat. There's that too, which probably leads us back around to why we want our clothes to be extra small. I just need room.

I just need room.

Okay, I went, I was traveling and I was going through the checkpoint at security and the guy looked at my passport and he looked at the passport and he looked at me and he looked at the passport and he looked at me and then he conferred with another person because that's how different I looked in my passport. 'Cause you know how you go to get your license and you don't want that picture to look crazy. So when I got it done that day, my hair was done, I had makeup on, I did it after church. He was like, "You are, one of these things don't look like the other." So I've had that experience. I've had that experience. Yeah. But you know, it is what it is. Okay, you are the Naomi Raine. And I say Naomi Raine 'cause everybody knows what that means. But I wanna ask you, just in case you don't know what it means, it's Maverick City and all the things, all the songs you singing in your car and at church, that voice, that silky smooth, that's her. Okay, so, but you're not just Naomi Raine with Maverick City, you're Naomi Raine with all of your things that you have, your own music, your own album. Right now, what does it feel like to be the Maverick City Naomi Raine and the Naomi Raine that's the Naomi Raine? Because when I listen to your album, it's the same Naomi, but it's two different sounds. Not your voice, but the music direction is two different sounds. And I'm so curious how it feels right now to be carving out your own space in addition to the space that you've already carved out with yourself, with how so many of us know you well?

This is a really nice question. Okay, so how it feels, I will say it feels, it feels like the type of clothes we want to wear. It feels roomy and spacious and, and very comfy. So one of the things about Maverick is that Maverick City Music is the artist, right? We are a collective of people that come together to lend our voices to that sound. And yes, because we've written the songs, we contribute, but it's so collaborative. It's so gumbo, right? And so I love doing that because it's like, man, I would've never been able to even come up with this because I wouldn't have had the other ideas, the other creativity that adds to this. That feels— special. Like when I'm doing that, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm a part of something that's bigger than me. And it's like beautiful and wonderful. Now doing my own stuff, it's like—

but people don't see it that way.

They don't. I don't think they know.

We're about the technical. Yeah, you talk about the technical, what's written in the contract stuff.

I think it's important that y'all know this because as things fluctuate, as people come in and out, even as like where most of us that you might look at as the face of Maverick City Music, as we do our own projects and do, like, some people get worried. They're like, "Oh no, what's going on?" And it's like, everybody keep calm. Like, we were always individual artists that came together as a collective. Maverick City Music is a collective. And there'll be new people coming in and there might be people going out and coming back in. And so the point is like, we all love each other. We're all writing together. We're all friends, family, but it's fluid. And because Maverick, the point of that was to highlight voices and give people an opportunity to say what they have been called to say. And that doesn't mean we all have to say it at the same time, you know? And it's tough. I know the amount of comments, posts, questions. Are you still with Maverick? And whatta da da da. And then some of it is just like everything that everybody does, I'm responsible for as well. And it's like, wait a second. Like, we're all individual people. We love the same Jesus, but you know, we're different and it gets a little tricky. But to answer your question, I feel free and roomy and happy about what I'm able to accomplish as a solo artist. It feels like the most authentic expression of myself.

Your solo music. Have you had anybody say to you, if you go and sing somewhere, like, is there a preference of songs, or is there a communication to you that's like, y'all like me, but you come, you want me to sing those songs, but I have my own songs. How are you navigating that since no matter what you say, you are—

I'm like, with weeping and gnashing of teeth. No, I think it's like, it's difficult. Yeah. It's very difficult. Because people just wanna hear promises and they wanna hear "Jireh." And mind you, I'm not tired of those songs yet. And even though, if you catch me on a night, my girls are here, they're probably like, "Yeah, right. She's sitting there like, 'I don't wanna sing this song anymore.'" But when I start to sing it, I'm always reminded of the God that I'm singing about. And I try very hard when I'm singing to actually worship God, you know? Like, let me actually sing this song and mean it. And every time I do that, I'm able to lock in. But— I think when I put out music, it's because the Lord has told me he wants me to release something in the earth, or wants me to encourage the body in a certain way. And so, if there's a preference toward what was for— A once season. —2 years ago, yeah, or yeah, another season, it's kinda like— and so, then I have to move in my prophetic gift and just operate in what I believe the Lord is telling me to do. I'm gonna obey him over people every time. But then, I also understand that I'm an artist and— And that's a part of what this is. Some of it is we sing the songs that we sang for 10 years and we just love it.

So what happens if you go to a church? Do you just sing whatever you sing? Do they— okay, they don't say nothing? 'Cause listen, I just know, listen, I love church people. I really do. I really do. I love the people who love Jesus. But we are our own breed, really. Yes. Okay, 'cause I could see some church mother being like, "But baby, we don't want none of that. We need the other song." Yeah, well, it's kind of not.

Like, in my contract, but I'm not gonna go somewhere where people are telling me exactly what to sing. I'm gonna be led by the Holy Spirit. And then, I think, and that's the good thing about being a part of Maverick is that people kind of expect us to make our own rules and to do what we deem to be, like, what the Holy Spirit is saying. And so, we— I have the freedom to flow because that's how it's been established. They're like, "Oh, are you gonna come?" Somebody came to one of our concerts, for— I'm on tour now. They came and some of my people were asking them like, what's your favorite Naomi Raine song? They were like, we don't know. But they're like, but why did you come? They're like, well, we came for Naomi Raine. But, but why don't you know a song? And they're like, we just came to worship. So their understanding— when I heard that, my heart leapt. I'm like, oh, you just knew that wherever I would be, we would be worshiping. Yes. That's all I want. That's amazing. That's all I want. More than a song. Like, mind you, I want people to buy the songs. I want them to get the music. Hello. I need to feed my kids. But More than that, did you come to worship? Did you come for an encounter? And if I'm known by that, then I'm like, okay, then God's getting the glory.

We're good. You are traveling a lot. Mm-hmm. But you got a kid. So how does this work?

3 of them bad boys. So wait, it's 1 girl— and 2 boys.

—and 2 boys. Mm-hmm. What are their ages now?

So April, 17. Caden, 14. Okay. Savion, 9. Now what's bad is that I know their ages, but their names, I'm like, who did I call?

Listen, you know who you are. What did I call you?

You know who you are.

You know I was talking to you. Yes. You know your name.

You know me, I'm the boy.

Okay, travel is not easy when you're leaving kids behind. No. You have strong support, obviously. I have very strong support. Like family?

Yes. My mother and my father primarily, my mother-in-law, she comes— they live in Charlotte now, we're in New York. My mother-in-law travels up, we bring her up to be in the house and to help the kids get out to school, get them organized, settled, cook dinner, um, do all that stuff. My parents, 100% hands-on. And that's why I'm okay, if I'm honest. Um, I'm not against outside help, and I may have to look into it in the future, but I am like 100% secure because it's not somebody that's on the outside coming in These are people that raised me. And, you know, I know who they are. I know they raised my brother not well, my husband well. Like, my kids are in good hands. They love them. And my kids love their grandparents.

How do they feel about you being gone?

You know, it's a mixed bag. Of course. It's 3 different kids. Yeah. And honestly, I think because my husband and I, we've talked to them about ministry. The call. They understand it. My parents have been in ministry our whole lives. We live— this is our life, right? So they kind of have come into this understanding of like, okay, we lay down our lives for the gospel. That's the point of it, and everything that we do is about that. But also, I think as things have gotten a little more difficult, the time—

yeah, laying down your life at the local church 10 minutes down the road is different. Then I'm gone for a few weeks because I'm on a bus. Yes. But you seeing me everywhere, right? That's different.

It's different. And so if I'm honest, um, so this Mother's Day— oh, why am I sharing this? Still gonna share it. Um, this Mother's Day, I, in the card, was like, Mommy, I love you and I miss you. Each one of them signed it. I miss you so much. I miss you. I don't get that normally. And that— so as much as I think they're doing well, I don't know if they're always saying how much it affects them. And we talk, but I don't know if they are yet able to even identify some of what they're feeling. But they do say, yeah, adult words. But they are saying that they miss me, which I'm happy about. And so I'm like, I miss you too.

But it's like, what do I do about that?

Yeah. Yeah. Is difficult.

I mean, I think every, it's different, but I think every working mother has the same. Yep. You know, I remember being single and I moved my daughter. I was working downtown and I moved her from the school she was in to be at a school in downtown Dallas so that I could ride with her on the car to school, so that if she had a lunch, I could dart over there and be with her. I mean, I'm moving hell and high water to be available. But there were still things that I had to miss. Like, I couldn't be at everything. So all the stay-at-home moms are all there, and she's like, "But Mom, you can't come to this thing." And I'm like, "I have done all these things for you, but I still can't check all the boxes." Not all of them. There's still some things that, you know, I gotta be at work, and I can't come to everything that you do. So then there's this guilt of— and, you know, and I've had seasons in my life where I have been a stay-at-home mom. You still can't do it all.

Well, that's what I'm saying. I was a stay-at-home mom too, and I felt more guilty, honestly, then than I do now. And I'm like, well, what? No matter what I do, I'm gonna feel this kind of mom guilt. And I think maybe because my children were younger and they could express themselves even— well, they could express, but we couldn't communicate on the same level. Now I feel a little better because I'm able to even let them know intentions. And I think I'm better at keeping my word, you know, and making sure I don't say what I can't do, you know? I'm considering homeschooling them now because I'm like, you need to be able to come out on the road and be with him me. We're figuring that out. And they— and my daughter's like, okay, because she just is done with school. But I'm like, then I'm like, mm-hmm, she's almost done. I'm like, you need to go to prom. And she's like, no, Mom, I'll just come be with you. And I'm like, mm, everybody keep calm. So now I'm like, I don't know if I want to do this because you're just a little too excited, you know, because I want her to have a social life and be a part of things. I don't want her to regret it. You know, and so there's so much. My son, my middle son, Kaden, we call him the mayor because he's literally— if he was in your house, he'd be showing you around. He'd be like, come. You know, that's who he is. He loves people. He loves his friends. I don't want to pull him out of school, you know? And so this is where I feel the guilt now. I don't feel guilty now for leaving and doing the work.

How'd you get comfortable with that?

Because I really— a lot of prayer. And I hate to say this because I know it seems like the cliché answer, but a lot of prayer. I just have peace. I just have peace. I know I'm doing the right thing. And I know I'm doing the right thing by him by saying, "Hey, you need to stay in school. This is a part of what God is doing in your life. And these relationships are actually good for you. They're building you. They're growing you." The younger one, I don't know. He, you know, we figure it out. It's the baby.

It's the baby, 'cause he wanna do what everybody. Yeah, I was gonna say, there's no rules. The rules do not apply to the baby. I was the baby.

I know how it is.

I'm just looking at my baby. I'm just like, all the things I said I would never do. 'Cause I would look at people and they would be like, He's the baby or she's the baby. And I'm like, but you can't stop parenting. And here I am like, what, you didn't do it? All right, we'll do it tomorrow. Right. Like, whatever. Yeah, mom guilt is real. And you do have to reach a point where you know that you're operating in the place that God has for you to operate in, doing the best you can and leaving the rest to the Lord. Because even if you were checking all the boxes, you can't control the outcome anyway.

It just doesn't work. It doesn't work. I'm not— and I can't say— I'm not going to sit here and be like, every day I feel amazing. You know, there are some days where I'm like, they're alive. Kind of like, yeah, what? I'm supposed to be there. But I've found a way. And I think I've been making exceptions. I talked to my manager the other day. I was like, I need to be home every single weekend. He was like, this is impossible. Like, if you're going to, like, take events, how are you going to be home? I said, we need to do whatever we can to make sure that, okay, if they're in school, they're in school. But on the weekends, we're home. And sometimes you just have to make sacrifices and say, no, this is a line that I'm drawing and this is just it. And the Lord is going to provide and make a way. And I'm believing that God will do that. That doesn't mean there's like, if the White House calls, I'm not going to be like, it's the weekend. You know, I might say, okay, we can take one weekend off. Y'all go play with your friends or go to your cousin's house, you know. But there's, there's something to making sacrifices. And I think I'm more in that space now. I'm like, okay, We had a year of, or 2 years of like, going hard. And now, I can kind of lift. I remember once, one year, I told my husband, he was so mad. I said, I was like, babe, this is not the year of the birthday. We are not. 'Cause we were the crazy people that did extravagant parties every single one. It's like, what? You're 8. Like, you're not, why are we doing 11? I'm telling you, every, and I was like, this is not the year of the birthday. He had to wrestle with the Lord on that for a long time. But he understood. I was like, we are growing. Like, this is— this is the focus this year. There's— there's something that has to be done and we're going to do it. And now, now we can have birthdays and now we don't have parties.

Oh, no, I gave that up. I told the kids when they were little, you get a good one at 5, a good one at 10 when you hit double digits, when you turn 13, 16, and graduation. Every other thing is small. I need to write these down. That's what we did. Now the baby has had a good birthday every single year, but everybody else, 5, 10, 13, 16, and 18. Because I have 5 kids. I can't do all of that. I can't do all of that. It's too much. It's too much.

And I think that it reinforces something that's not— Realistic. For them. Like, and— but so, okay. Ooh, okay. So what I did learn in— I think it was when we started winning awards. I was so— ambivalent about that and like, "Oh, won an award. Okay, great. Guys, stop talking about it." Like, I just kinda was like, "No, I don't wanna—" And I realized that was a place of emotional immaturity for me. And the Lord really had to deal with me. He was like, "No, I've called my people to celebrate.

You need to learn how to celebrate." But were you doing that because it just wasn't a big deal to you 'cause you were operating in what you had been operating in before you started getting awards? Or were you trying to downplay? What was the deal?

Some of it. Some of it was, OK, this really isn't that big of a deal. But then the other side was when people were making a big deal of it, I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

Everybody keep calm.

Meaning I'm still Naomi? Right. OK. And so that was coming from a different place. And it's like, you can celebrate and enjoy and commemorate moments.

But let's talk about that place. What you said, it's coming from a different place. Explain that to me.

It was coming from a place that was very comfortable shrinking, hiding. Everybody look away. Like averting, diverting, but I don't know what the word is, child, but it is what it is. Like, don't pay attention to me, don't see me, because I'm seen when I'm doing what the Lord's calling me to do. And then outside of that, don't even talk about how I did. Don't tell me I did good, bad, nothing. I don't want to hear nothing. Why? It— fear of— fear of— honestly, fear of success, fear of fear of being seen, fear of being known, and fear of having to be accountable for the good. I'm not so afraid about the bad. Like, tell me what's wrong so I can fix it. You know what I mean? But it was more so, don't tell me I did a good job because I might not believe I did a good job. So now I have to fight with your version of good and mine. Where does that come from with you?

You're the baby of the family. You're always celebrated. Aren't babies always celebrated? Why— you're talking like an oldest child, actually. Like, I gotta— if I was successful, can I be successful again? Like, that sounds— so where does that come from for you?

I think, if I'm honest, which I always will be, I think some of that was my church upbringing. I grew up in a megachurch, which I think you can understand. I don't know what you're talking about. And it was high quality, high focus on excellence. Okay. And everybody couldn't meet that mark. And when you did, you were elevated or put in certain places. And then it made you— or oftentimes the people that maybe couldn't started to treat you a different way. And so I was alienated and I felt like I lost friends when I was younger because I was good. And so I think as I got older, I started to try to mitigate that so I could maintain relationships with people. And if you told me I was good, you reminded me of the people that were telling me to be excellent and putting me in— so it's like I didn't want our friendship or our relationship to be clouded by what I remembered it as, right? Or that first initial traumatic thing. And then if you were— I guess if you enjoyed what I did, it was more like a fan perspective. And then I felt like maybe we would never be able to actually be friends because I was in a position that you weren't, or I was invited into the back room and you weren't, and I was able to get that. And it just made my relationships complicated. So I took it upon myself to be like, I don't know what's going on, and I'm just gonna act like nothing matters. And I even pulled myself out of stuff. I wouldn't, I stopped auditioning for things. I stopped trying for, I literally became an underachiever because I was afraid of what came with all of it. And there's something that snapped in me when I was about maybe 15 or 16. It was like, hello, like, you're wasting, you're squandering the things that God has given you. And I found some good people and I'm still unlearning a lot of those habits as I meet more people. But a lot of it, I hate to say like, it's the church. It's not the church. It's where, it was the culture that I came up in.

Okay, but then you really are in back rooms and you are getting invited to places and stages where other people are not. So now that you're here in the place where you're trying to avoid, how is that going?

You know, um, okay, this is what I believe about that. I believe that this is a space that was cut out for me. It's hard for me to say that.

I was about to say, I was about to say, I feel it's because it sounds like, oh, I'm a—

it's— and I don't even mean it like that. I think that certain people are just called to certain spaces, certain things. And I don't know why I want to cry. You can't— you know, I'm not going to negotiate the vision with the Lord. Some people are called and chosen for certain things. And so, like, and I say this, like, we wrote, um, Jireh and that line, I'm already I'm already chosen. I know who I am. I know what you've spoken. I remember, like, the Lord gave me vision for this. He showed me, he said, "I'm gonna call you to arenas. I'm gonna call you to stadiums. I'm gonna call—" Who can— I wasn't even thinking about that. I just wanna just worship Jesus. I'm at a conference. I'm at a Jesus Culture Conference just lifting my hands, and you're showing me arenas and stadiums, and you're telling me that I will be a part of a civil rights movement in the music industry. I didn't even think that we had issues with— between blacks and whites anymore, 'cause, you know, we're— it's 2007, you know?

Like, I was just thinking like, I'm like, that doesn't—

but that's what he was showing me. That wasn't my dream. And so now when I get in these rooms, I go, okay, this is the way he wanted it. And I'm not gonna fight that. But it's also not gonna stop me from being friends with somebody who might only be singing in their local church. And it doesn't mean I have to be separate from somebody who's maybe not called to that.

But how do you handle it when they do what they do? Because people do that. They see you on a stage. They see your social media. They're getting the notifications of your YouTube things. And because people do what we do, we bring separation. You're different than me, which means then I treat you differently. And sometimes, you know, without attempting to, people will say things that are a little bit snide because they're trying to make light of the fact that I mean, we know you can't, you know, I can't believe you stopped to talk to me. I know you're busy. Yes. So that is the reality. The thing that you were avoiding, the thing that you're avoiding is going to happen or has happened for sure. So how are you navigating the reality of the thing you were running from?

I think what I realized is that it's okay. I think I understand where they're coming from. I've learned, I'm learning to separate and like there are some people that don't really mean you well and they're doing stuff like that and it's actually like just fueled by— we don't care about them. We don't care about them. There are people that actually mean you well and they just don't have— they just really don't even know what's going on and this is their thing or their insecurities. I've learned to kind of be okay with it. I think there's a price. So I could have— I could have sat back and, and hidden myself and and done all the things, and I wouldn't be doing what I was called to do and purposed to do. So I would be like double miserable if this is the one half of misery that I have to deal with. Like, if this is the one piece, I'll take this. I think there is a price.

There's a price to this.

There's a price to somebody sitting on the couch with somebody and them saying, all I have to say is their name. And you know what? There's a price to that. And I talk about that. You don't want to look like you're arrogant or the person that's that's aware that you've been given some afforded or afforded some special opportunity. But like, let's not pretend this is what it is. And there's a heavy price and it's hard. And sometimes when I'm faced with this stuff that's difficult, I'm sad. And I've learned to be okay with that too. Like, some stuff is just sad and it's hard and you walk through it. And if this is a part of the price I have to pay, because ultimately my goal is to reach people and to encourage them, to edify the church, to preach the gospel, if this is the price, okay, I'll suffer for Jesus. Like, it's okay. And that doesn't mean it's easy. It sucks.

Are you still at the same church? No. Do you have a good church home? I do. And do you feel like you can go and be there? Yep. As a person who attends church?

As a person who— well, here's the thing, um, I'm a pastor in the church, okay? But I can go. I don't have to wear makeup, and I've— we've set it up that way. I can, I can just be— I can go in the fellowship hall after church and just be with the people. And, and I try to do that. There are some days I'm like, I'm tired, um, and I lay up. Um, but I've found a space, a community of people that I know go out of their way to make to make it a safe space. And I'm great. And I used to be like, "No, I don't want anybody to do that." And my Apostle was like, "Relax. Like, this is a part of how we love you, how we serve you. And just everybody keep calm." And so, I've just learned to accept that people are trying and the way that they love me is by not asking, like, or saying. Oh my God, I love your new song. And then sometimes they sneak it in and it feels nice and it feels authentic and it feels like, okay, thank you. 'Cause sometimes you need to hear that people like the song, you know?

Yeah. You think that because lots of people know it or sing it or stream it or whatever, that that communicates all you need to know. And sometimes you just need a little 17-year-old, 24-year-old girl to say, I love your song. Makes all the difference in the world. I think one of the hardest things when you're normal, whatever normal is. Normal in the sense that you wear t-shirts and stretchy black yoga pants and you don't wanna wear makeup. Okay. Is being served. I have a hard time being served. And it sounds very crazy because I don't have a problem serving anybody else. In fact, I will insist that you let me serve and that kind of thing. But I think acknowledging that and letting people serve you, it sounds so terrible, but like, "Let people serve me." But I think that like in our home, like in our marriage, one of the reasons why I married my husband is because he was a servant. And he knew how to— I don't know if you know, my husband managed Kirk for 20 years. Oh no. So that whole dynamic of, I see what you need and where other people want to take from you, I see what you need. And he did that for me and still does it to this day. And I don't think I would know unless I had been with someone who knew how to serve, how important it was to serve people who everyone else is pulling from. But when other people are not there giving boundaries for you or protecting you, are you good at drawing boundaries for yourself?

I am learning. I'm learning. I, and I think my personality type is the type that once I learn something, oh, I'm good at it, you know, I'm gonna do it. And so I think I learn things in increments, and so Most people probably tell you that, oh, Nay is direct and she's going to— I am. I am direct.

I had to learn that. Yes.

And I'm still in my head overthinking stuff for like 2 hours. I'm looking over there now because I'm like, they know. I'm like, huh? Like, I have a personal assistant. And if she tries to grab something that I'm grabbing, I'm like, don't touch it. Like, you know, I can, I can be assertive with like, let me do it. But then also it's like, I'm like, "Can somebody help me, please?" You know? It's a lot. I'm learning. I'm learning. And I— all of this is new. Like, this whole thing, even with marriage. So, I was ministering before this, you know, in the church.

You talked about singing, and you talked about having your own CDs in the back. How long you been doing this?

I've been doing this—

'Cause everybody thinks you just got here.

I've been doing this for real for 11 years. Like, for real. I used to travel as a minister. The church is a way— has a way of serving. So, I always had people that wanted to carry my bag, and I would be so uncomfortable, like, "Ooh, don't carry my bag." And, "No, no, I can carry my own bag." And I could, right? But I think the Lord was using that time to prepare me for a moment like this, a moment that I even really couldn't be prepared for. Because when all of this Maverick stuff happened, it happened so fast. It happened— so hard. Like, strong. It was strong. And there was no way. It's like we literally talked to each other. We're like, we had collective trauma. If everybody was— we all went through the pandemic together, right? And then we were going through success. It's like it built on top of— it was terrible news, but terrible in the way that something is terrific or terrifying. It's just like, it's just great.

It's just a lot. It's just a lot.

And This was difficult. And so, I always say, "I'm learning," because I think some things I just had to do so quickly. Because it was like, it's so fast. And so, you have to learn. And so, people are coming, and they're helping. And so, it's like, "Okay, I'm doing it." And now, I think it's catching up. What hit my brain is catching up with my heart. And I'm really learning how to accept and receive it and not go home and loathe, and like, loathe myself, or feel bad. And, "Oh, did they take that?" I'm kind of going, "Okay, Naomi, relax." And I think I trust the people that are around me too. I think I have some pretty good solid folks that do really care about me and aren't just here for that, but they're serving.

Okay, but have you had anybody around you who's just here for that? And how have you prevented I love how you keep looking at your crew over here.

They're like, "No, it's funny." I wasn't even looking at y'all.

They're like, "Can you tell me who they are?" You know, yes.

I think I was— I recently was really hurt by someone who I thought— That's a part of the price. —was my friend. Yeah. And I realized, "Oh, you are just here for the things." Yeah. And— That is still very hurtful. But I think I navigated that one pretty well.

Was that in the learning place or was it from a learned place? Like you said, you have to learn things and once you got it, you got it. Was that one of those moments where you were practicing or were you like, no, I know how to love you and release you? Yeah.

I know how to love you and release you. It took me back to like, oh, I remember this. Okay. And it's okay. I think because I have really good people around me, I'm able to share. I didn't share a lot before. Yeah. Now I'm able to share and I say, hey, this is what I'm seeing, experiencing. And usually when you say, hey, I noticed this or something, everybody's like, I knew it, I saw it.

Well, why you didn't say something?

Everybody needs to get rebuked. Need a beating. But yeah, I'm— that happened. I was like, okay. And it helped. Um, doesn't make the pain any less. To me, I thought that, um, that life was good when there was no pain. So to me, an indicator of me being hurt or sad was like, oh no, everything's out of control, what am I doing? And now I realize I'm like, oh no, this is good. I'm learning that person wasn't for me. That hurts me. I'm— it's hard, struggling, but this is okay. Because grief is a natural response to loss. And so I lost somebody. I lost somebody and I'm sad and I'm okay with that. Doesn't feel good. Hate it. But, but it's okay. That's good.

That's so good. Tryin'. So you do these car chats in seasons. Yes. Why are we doing these? Why do you do these?

Because I like to talk. I really do. I think conversation is one of the greatest gifts that we have. I think so much more is left unsaid. I'm— about things that really matter. Real heart matters, I think most of us don't really say. You ever see one of those movies where the girl like catches the guy like kissing another girl or hugging and he wasn't really like kissing her, like the earring was caught or something.

And then she's like— They talk about it, all the assumptions.

And it's like, and I'm screaming at the TV like, just tell her that you not, you know, and she's gone. And then there's like a montage and then you have to wait 3 months until they get back together. And I'm like, why did we do this? I like to talk about the things. And so I want to get with people like you and have conversations and see what I can learn. What— how can I view this differently? Because my perspective is my perspective, but I grow when I see and hear yours. And maybe I can— I don't know, maybe we can share that with people who might not ever get to have a conversation with this many perspectives. They're not bold enough to have conversations, but they're bold enough to listen.

Listen, all you and I need is a crack and a dough. Talking about, is this what we doing here?

Hello.

This what we talk about? 3 topics that you think we don't talk about enough that really, really need conversation.

Oh. It's me trying not to say the thing that I wanna say.

No, say it. Say it. It's right there.

I already feel it. Go ahead. Okay. I think we need to talk about—

Hey there, we're gonna get right back to my chat with Naomi in just a moment. But I wanted to make sure that I took this opportunity to make sure you don't miss out on an exciting event this year. It's 2023, and I want to invite you to come to California with me. I'm taking a group of women with me in October of this year to California to be surrounded by beautiful scenery, an awesome lake, wonderful women, an opportunity for you to hear the rhythm of your own soul, to slow down and to hear God speak to you. I'll be joined by some amazing speakers, an amazing worship experience, and all I can tell you is this experience is unique and there's nothing like it. I've only done it once before, it was 4 years ago, and it's time to do it again. So I'd love for you to join me. You can find out more by going to thesisterscircle.com/retreat. Well, you, you will find out everything you need to know right there to register to come. If you have been thinking, it's time for me to get away, to make room, to, to be by myself, but also just to get away from the everyday, I invite you to come. Even if you come alone, I promise you won't leave that way. So join me this October 2023. I'll be there, and I hope to see you there too.

I think we need to talk about women's view of sex. I was waiting for it.

I was like, it's a 3-letter word. I know it's gonna come on out.

You know, that was the first thing. Hello? Yeah, I think we need to talk about it.

What does that mean? I thought you were gonna say sex. So women's view, what do you mean? Meaning the church girl? That part?

Kinda, but it's even more than that. Our role in society So much has changed, but there are— but the beliefs and mentalities really still haven't fully changed over. Okay. And so I think that we're, we're catching— we're trying to catch up to maybe where we are in the business world or the political sphere or, you know, with our bodies and in our relationships. That stuff still hasn't morphed, fully morphed. And so we go into life with presuppositions of a world that doesn't fully exist anymore. You know? And—

You know, you're making some church people really uncomfortable. 'Cause they're basically like, "But it's supposed to be." Well, I think that the thing is, it's that so much of what you're saying can be tied to things that aren't good. So because we're afraid of the things that aren't good, we throw the baby out with the bathwater. Right. So the things that are good don't have a place they don't have a place.

But this is life in God in general. Yeah. Like, we're all supposed to eat. We're not supposed to be gluttonous. Right. Sex is good. Right. Not supposed to do it outside of the confines of marriage. Mm-hmm. There are things that— and I know nobody wants to talk about— when I read my script— when I read the scriptures and I see what the qualifications are of a deacon or an elder, it says, "Not given to much wine." But we go, "Can't have—" All the way in. And I'm not saying that so that we can go have a rave, a raver, or so, I don't know what it is. I don't even know what these things are where you just drink a lot. But I'm saying we have gone, we're so afraid of the extreme that we don't deal with what God may have given us for joy and for pleasure. We are afraid of pleasure. Ooh. We're afraid of that. I mean, and I'm— hello, I just sat here and said, "I didn't wanna sing and do the things because I was afraid that I was gonna—" Yeah, like, it's like, "Oh, no, this is too much. This is too much for me to handle, so I won't handle it at all." And when I look and when I read the scriptures, when I read my word, I'm seeing that that comes from more of a different mindset than the one I believe that God— A slave mindset. Yeah. He's made us free. And that's not to act a fool, right? You free to do it or not do it, but don't it. So anyway, I think when we throw the baby out with the bathwater, we're literally killing babies. Like, this is not good. Did we, did we miss it? It was like the point was save the baby. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we need to talk about those things because there's a generation coming up that's finding out that wasn't true. Right. So now, because you told me something that was a lie, I feel like it's a lie. Now I'm throwing the baby out with the bathwater. No. And don't throw Jesus out. Right. Because what we're, what we're giving these kids, or what we're giving these new believers, these babes in Christ, is a version of Jesus that doesn't match who he actually is. And I don't even want to say was. Yeah. Who he is. Right. What is this faith that we're walking people into? What is it? And I think it's important. This is one of the most important things to me because this is a foundation of our belief system. You live and think and move and respond to people and relate to people based on what you believe. Right. And when people come into this faith and say, I'm being born again and I'm— and they want to believe this and then find out it was a lie, I think that is, that is worse than anything. And Jesus says, like, if you, if you lead these little ones to sin, you'd be better off. Off, right? Like, put on a millstone. He's basically told people to, yeah, to end their lives. Yeah, tie a millstone around your neck and go jump in the river. Jesus is serious about that, about leading little ones astray. And I think when we think of that, we go, well, that's why we're saying don't ever have sex. No, but you're missing it because that's not what he said.

That's not what he said.

That's not what he said. And it went— I'm sorry, last thing. When I look at this account In the Garden of Eden, between Eve and Satan, God said, "Don't eat of the fruit." Satan goes, "Don't touch it," or you—

He didn't say, "Don't touch it." It's just one little tweak to the greater truth, and we throw the whole thing out.

And that's, to me, the issue. It's always— it's been the same issue. Yeah. And so, I'm—

You're right, because I had a girlfriend in college, and she got married not long after we graduated. And at some point, soon after she got married, I said, "Girl, how's marriage?" And she said, "Girl, it's amazing." And I said, "That's great." And she said, "Listen, can't nobody tell me nothing. If I wanna hang from a chandelier, the marriage bed is undefiled." And listen, she should say that. I was traumatized. I was like, "Oh my God, what are you talking about?" I mean, I'm just saying that we've got to change. It's like we— there are so many things that we make Jesus about, and we try to make Jesus rules and regs. And he was never rules and regs. He was always relationship.

Always. And here's the thing, the relationship informs the way I rule my life, like how my life is ruled. It's ruled by the relationship. And so, I'm concerned that we have such a desire for control and such a fear. I think we really fear 'Oh, this is probably gonna be scandalous.' I think we have such a fear of the effects of sin that we nullify the cross and we nullify what was actually done. I think there— I remember being in church and I'm gonna say thinking I knew Jesus, but I didn't. I had to fall. I had to understand what sin really was, that I was a sinner. You can't repent at 2. I'm sorry. You can't repent. You can't— like, do you get what I'm saying?

You can learn to love Jesus, but you have— you don't have an awareness of your need for a Savior.

Even Jesus says to Peter, he's like, when you are fully converted, and this is after he's been walking with Jesus for 2 and a half, 3 years. Fully converted? What? And I think when you grow up in church, you're not— you're not yet fully converted. You're learning. Yeah, it's a culture. I'm living, I'm trying, I'm doing. It's not until you recognize Oh, I am depraved. Like, this is not okay. Like, uh, my mind, or my flesh, or whatever, I need God. I realize, I recognize Jesus for who he actually is, the answer for all of my things. That's when I'm, uh, okay. I think I got saved when I was probably like, 19.

Right about the time you was— I always tell my children, between 15 and 25, Those are your stupid years. Hello? You may be less stupid than others, but you will think you know more than you do. And because you think that, you're gonna make mistakes. And some of them will be great for some of y'all and some— but this is what I always tell all my kids. I may not be right about everything, but I'm always telling you the truth. And you will figure out, probably when you get past your stupid years, that everything I was telling you, not 100, but the majority was true. So you can either learn truth the easy way, listen to your leader and your guide through life, or you can learn the hard way. And life is a very hard teacher. But what you will learn at some point in your life is the truth. I just wanna save you from the damage you're gonna do to yourself in the stupid years. But it's during that time, I think, where even if you've been in church your whole life, your eyes are open to what you're capable of, what you're capable of thinking, what you're capable of doing. What you're capable of not doing, and the awareness of yourself is what brings you to your knees. So sex is number one. What's number two?

Things we need to talk about.

Because that was really like one A, B, C, D, E, G, like subtopics. But anyway, go ahead. Number two.

I think platonic friendships. Mm.

Mm. Friendship. That has an ABCD. I know it does. Kim Kardashian ABCD. What is—

I think friendships are Beautiful ways that God continues to grow us and, um, sanctify us. I used to think that only marriage did that, and then I realized, oh no, it's the relationships.

It's a married woman have a platonic, uh, relationship with a person of the opposite sex?

I think so. I do. I think if it's pure and if But what about the rules and the regs? You know, I'm against these rules and regs. What about— What about—

Stop telling my copy out. You can't— You want to avoid the appearance of evil. So, if I'm sitting there chumming up with a friend, that could be a problem? Because like, what about that? What about jealous husbands? What about, like, how can it be good? How can it be good? Because there can be things, and there have been things that have been born out of platonic friendships that aren't.

I think it's just like anything. Like, we know, like, marriage is good, but also it can be bad. Okay. I think what, what we're doing in any situation is accommodating for people's weaknesses and insecurities. And I think that when you are married, your marriage should be the primary, the primary relationship in your life. And I'm hoping that if you have a platonic friend that you're spouse is okay with this person. I think, like, in my household, my husband washed the dishes all the time. And some people go, you're the woman, you're supposed to wash the dishes and he's supposed to take out the garbage, even though I don't touch garbage. So that's still— hello. There are some things that we are— we say is normal, but then there are other things that work for us and we figure it out. Some men stay home and some women go out. And I think you figure out what works. In your relationship. Anything that's full of deceit and nonsense and is leading you toward temptation, I think you need to flee from that in any way.

Why is platonic number 2?

Why is it underneath your skin and bothers you or think that it's something that you're like, "We gotta talk about this." Well, I think we need to talk about it because, and it wasn't even just for like people of opposite sex, even for same-sex friendships. Is platonic same-sex?

Do I not know the definition of platonic?

Platonic is just friend— friendly, friendly relationships.

Teach me something. Yeah, me a river.

Okay. Yeah, my bad. No, no, no. Um, friendship. Friendship. Okay. I, I— it was kind of redundant. I said platonic friendships, so it was kind of a redundant phrase. Sorry.

Okay, so yeah, friendship is a thing for you because—

because I think friends are the most important relationships in your life. They inform you. They They help you discover and establish what you believe. These are people that pray with you— should pray with you. And these are the people that also, if they betray you, it can shatter you. And I just— I think relationships are the currency of life. And I believe that when we get a better handle on friendships, people's lives will be better. I think a good friend can make or break— can make your life. A bad friend can break it. And I sometimes think we kind of go into it willy-nilly, or we're too afraid to commit so that we live on the surface with people and don't go deep, and then you can't grow. That's right.

Like, the point is to grow. We say to women, you know, when you get married, you should prioritize your marriage above all other relationships, which is true. But sometimes I think what we don't tell women is that when you get married, don't forget about your friends. Because at some point, even while you're prioritizing your marriage, those intentional friendships, and they will ebb and flow through different seasons depending on the season you're in, but that's like, it's the currency of life. It's how you celebrate. It's how you have fun. It's how you, you know, share in similar interests or hobbies. It adds even when you're married, your friendships, you gotta be intentional about those. And you know, I remember people would say that, or you see little quotes and stuff when people are getting married, you know, "Don't forget about your friends," or— but then you have this period where you're honeymooning, and then there's this, then, you know, give it a few years, and then you're like, "I miss y'all." We like, "We didn't leave, you was just in love." But I think a lot of us stay at the surface of friendship. And there's so much more to be offered by going deep, being vulnerable, being honest, and letting people really see you all the way. It's, to me, it's so important.

I remember when I first got married, I was a little annoyed with my husband. I'm like, why y'all always gotta be together? Like, what's going on over here? Everybody's figuring out, we gonna do the game. And then I was like, hello, I'm not everything to him. And that's okay. And he's not everything to me. Even God, right? God, who is— who's God, says you still— it's not good that man should be alone, right? There's still someone else that, that, that you need. Um, that I, I don't even— it's not that I can't feel it, I don't have to feel it. And so, yeah, I don't think we talk about friendships enough, or, or how to cultivate them, because you'd have to be intentional.

Yeah. Intentional. Number 3.

I like stuff that comes naturally, um, and they don't always come naturally. Okay, number 3. I feel like it's all in the same area, so I'm like low-key trying to find something else quickly. Um, I think, I, I think we should talk more about, all right, family dynamics, parents. How you relate to your parents and your siblings. I think birth order matters.

It's a whole thing. How many— you're the baby in how many siblings? Just 2 of us. Just 2.

OK. So we— hello? I got it easy. I don't have a sister. I have an older brother. So I don't know. I look at y'all with sisters, and I'm like, whoo, glory be to God. I'm so— but then also, I'm like, I don't have a sister. Because then y'all, like, do stuff, and go shopping, and do brunches, and things.

Family is an amazing thing. It is also a bed of dysfunction and lifelong issues that you can't run away from because they're your family. I mean, like, it's amazing. And it's also like firecrackers.

Well, I didn't know that because there were only the two of us and my parents and my— like our outside family, like we weren't really connected to them. So it was just like, Oh, us four and no more. Like, and it was good. But as we're getting older, I'm like, "Oh, there are things." It's like lifting up a rock and there's like, bugs under there. And mind you, all of this stuff is, I guess God made it and it's good. I'm talking about the bugs. But you know, I realize like, there are so many secrets that my grandmother has kept and things that come out. And I'm like, I was like, oh, that's why. That makes sense. Because in my life, I really walked around like avoidant and like, "Hey, no, blinders on." OK, you built a house for you.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, you build a house for your kids. You don't want them to know about the horrible things. You don't want them to know that, you know, Uncle So-and-so was Uncle So-and-so. Like, there are things you don't want. Because the thought is we're protecting. Family members from knowing hard things. But what happens is, sometimes, is some of those hard things are spiritual DNA. Some of those hard things are genetic DNA. And those things don't go away just because you don't talk about them. Hello? So, if you don't talk about them, if you don't talk about them, the weeds just come up in other places. And the people don't know why this is growing here. And you didn't tell them that, oh yeah, this is underneath the soil. It's a whole thing.

Can we tell the people what's going on? Yeah. I've realized that most of the reason that people don't grow is because there's an absence of truth. Mm. We're not actually communicating. We don't know what's going on. And so some people are walking around confused. They don't— there are patterns in my life that I realized when I learned some of my grandmother's secrets, I'm like, oh, I feel like if I had known— She's me. Like—

That happened to me too. I was like, what? Why didn't somebody say something?

Yeah. Because I could have maybe been a little more vigilant, like, to— because you know when you're breaking a curse, you know what you're breaking. Right. I know what I'm coming against. I'm not playing with this.

It's almost like nobody told you who the enemy was. Right.

And now we dating. And now I'm in love, so I can't let him go. It's like, oh, no. But I think the honesty should hopefully free future generations. And so I've already started having conversations with my daughter that I think she doesn't want to have. And I don't care. Because I'm like, hey, I just want you to see what this is. And there are certain decisions she's made already. She's like, Mommy, I decided I'm just— I'm not going to date until I get to college. I said, "Yes and amen." Give yourself a break. Focus on school, you know? And I don't know, now maybe there'll be something that comes from that. 'Cause here's the thing, you can't avoid everything. But I want her to make decisions from a place of— Knowledge. Knowledge and understanding, you know? And like, "Hey, this is what has happened. Just look," you know, caution. I'm not fearmongering, right? But I just want you to be in the know.

That's amazing. Okay, last book you read that was great?

Oh my goodness. Or do you read? I do not read. I'm literally like, Colossians. Hello? Okay, can we deal with that? No, no, no. No! Can we deal with this? I'm just trying to read my Bible. I'm just trying to read my word. How did we get here? I'm just trying to be a student of the word. I can't read everybody's book, but— But I think, okay, I— the last book I read was Woman Evolved. I haven't finished it. It was Woman Evolved. I do listen to Audible. I do listen to books. Okay, that counts.

But let's be honest, you only listen halfway. Hello? Because you're doing it while you're doing something else. So you can listen to it, but it don't have the same—

it's not hitting the way it's supposed to hit. And then I'm, I'm that person that You have you ever done this when you're reading a book, you keep reading the same line over and over. If you're thinking about like, what am I going to do for dinner?

And then you just keep rewind, you keep hitting back.

Rewind, rewind, rewind. But I'm already where I'm supposed to go because I do this in the car. I'm already there. I can't. I'm more of a sermon girl. I can listen to sermons.

I was going to say, who did you last listen to?

The last person. Okay. She's going to think that I'm just trying to— I love her. This is my friend. Last person I listened to was Sarah Jakes Roberts. I can't even tell you what it was about. Doesn't matter. Don't remember right now, but you know, you're supposed to evolve.

Hello, I'm trying. Consistently, the thread through those messages—

yes, evolve. Um, Matt Chandler is one of my favorite preachers. Yeah. Um, I, I like to listen to— he kind of yells at you the whole time. I like that. Yell at me a little bit, shake me up, like remind me of the, the point of the gospel. I want that, like, um Yeah, and my pastor, listen to him. Okay, a few folks in my church.

You love Jesus, you listen to Jesus, I read Jesus, all that. I do.

I started this book by, um, what's her name? Uh, oh, she's an older female actress, she's in Black-ish. What's her name? I just—

why would I leave? Um, the one that yells?

Yes, it's funny, child. I put it on Audible.

What's her name? Jennifer.

Jennifer Lewis. Lewis. Jennifer Lewis.

She's like, you know what? I'm crazy. Yeah. And I'm comfortable with that. Y'all get comfortable with me. I love her. Yes.

I've listened to a book by Tina Fey. Like, I want comedy book me. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I don't even have— I don't— We're not reading.

That's fine. We're not reading. Cut this out. The last great meal you had. You— Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if you made it. You had it at home, you ate it out, but you were like, oh my God, I cannot wait to eat that again. Okay.

Yes. I was in the Nashville airport.

Okay. Because airports matter.

Airport food matters. Airport food matters. And I think you hate me if you don't have good restaurants in your airport. Like, personally, whoever built the airport hates me. Developers. Anyway, so I went to this place. I don't know why I have to talk like this now.

Because that's what we do when we're food connoisseurs. We're like, okay, so let me tell you where you need to go. Go ahead. It's—

steak is in the name. I can't even remember the name of the place because we were between two places.

Where are we going to go? What kind of place?

It's, it's like a barbecue southern place. I don't know, but I know it's in Concourse C, I think.

Like, we don't know if this is a chain. Like, it only exists in the airport.

Yeah, I think it's a one, one-off. I think it's a one-off.

I don't think it's a chain. But you've been in the Nashville airport many a time. Yes. And you only had it this one time? Or you had it before?

Only this one time. I decided to— usually when I get to the airport, I'm like getting to the airport to get on the plane. I'm not spending my time.

Can we Google that? Can we find out what the name of the Steak Something restaurant? It's something—

it's in Terminal D. Like, it's like American Southern kind of, that kind of praise.

They have that kind of praise and amen.

Okay, it's a yummy praise. So it was the brisket, but they have, they have this blueberry barbecue sauce which which sounds a little strange, but it's amazing, on a bed of mashed potatoes and collard greens. And I'm going to tell you that I was blessed. I mean, blessed.

I mean— Beyond measure.

I'm thinking of it. My mouth is watering right now. I've thought of this meal multiple times after. And I was there with my manager, and I hit him. I was like, yo, we got to go back to the airport to get this food. And I'm almost sad. I don't know if I want to, because if it's not as good as it was, The first time.

Yeah, that happens. That's a problem where you had it and you go back and it's not the same. I get the pizza all the time. I don't know, is it 1821? It's on the corner of Concord C in Charlotte and it's a restaurant and they have great, they have great things. So when you're coming in there, it's right there on the corner. Okay. 18-something. Okay. It's great. Everything I've had is great.

I haven't really eaten in, I'm usually like, oh, go to the lounge and sit there.

You can take it to The Lounge. Order it and take it to The Lounge. Yeah. The Lounge is also a blessing to the body of Christ.

I need your list of restaurants. Anyway, sorry, I'm going to focus. Okay. Oh, you found it? The Southern Steak and Oyster. The Southern Steak and Oyster.

The Southern Steak and Oyster. Write it down. Write that down. Next time you're in Nashville, you should go.

I'm so serious though. Ooh, my mouth is watering.

Okay. Last time you cried. Was over. Oh, I was like, today.

Okay. Oh no. Why would you do this to me? You don't have to go in. Just— I know it was over. I was watching Bridgerton.

I can't keep caught up. I'm behind.

It was Queen Charlotte. Okay. And there's— I won't spoil it for anybody. Yeah, don't spoil it. I was just looking at the state of someone who was not in their right mind and someone had to save them. From themselves, like they were trying to fix themselves. And she went to save him from fixing himself. And I was so moved and I was like, this is— life is just hard. And but love overcomes everything. And I love that. And I'm sitting here and then I, then I was sad. I was mad at myself. I'm like, you're like one of these women that cry at the shows and the movies because I've never been that person. I never used to cry at stuff like The Notebook. I'm like, All right, next card. How old are you? I'm 36.

Oh, it's— there's more coming. I don't want it.

I don't want it. I know I really don't want it. And I'm— and you're looking at me with the look like, well, it doesn't matter, it's coming. But I want you to know that I don't want it. And I'm going to say it one more time. I don't want it. I don't want it. I can't be— I'm getting ready to come see you and I'm over here crying. I'm doing my makeup. I had to redo it. That's really why we're late today.

That's fine. You weren't late. You're right on on time.

That's really kind of you, but if I had not cried, I would have been more on time.

And you wouldn't have had an answer to the question. That was a great answer. Last time you laughed so hard you almost couldn't stop, maybe even peed on yourself a little.

Okay, I'm a mother of 3. Incontinence is a thing, a normal thing for me. So, um, all I need is a little chuggle like there just now. Yeah, right. Um, um, I don't think I— wait, do I remember? Um, I don't remember what I was laughing at, but I do remember who I was with. Okay. Um, I was with— I was— we were in a church meeting, um, and I was— I was explaining to them something that happened.

It doesn't matter what you were laughing at. You were in a church meeting. Sometimes in a meeting, you know, send me a text. Me too. Sometimes the funniest thing is being in the meeting, having a whole nother conversation via text because We don't even want to be in this meeting. Okay.

Okay. I was with those people late. It was just— it was 11:40 something. We're still talking and brought up a joke and, oh, it was about Beetlejuice. Like this. I don't know if you remember the guy, the shrunken head guy. And somebody made a face. It looked like that. I laughed so hard. It's about nothing.

Nothing. But the best laughter ever.

And these are with, like, the best people. I love them so much. And we laughed. And we laughed. I might still go back and laugh about it. That's amazing.

If there is one thing that from this conversation today that you're like, if you watch to this point or you've listened to this point, this is the thing I want you to know.

Could be about anything. That we talked about or that I feel? Anything. Okay.

But they're watching this right now. You're like, if you don't ever watch another thing I do, if you don't ever watch one of my Card Chats, if you don't ever listen to another one of my songs and you can't say I don't wanna say that Jesus loves you because that's a given. What is the one thing— what is the one thing you're like, "Remember that Naomi said..."?

I wanna say, because this is impacting me, this moment. Mm-hmm. Normally, when I come to Dallas, I'm with your sister. Everybody's normally with her. I was with Anthony last night. And then— Right, and then I meet you, and I'm like— So I'm sorry, I love you. No, I'm just kidding. No, but I— it's just another one. Yeah, but I was with Anthony last night and we were texting today. Love y'all. And I'm realizing that certain— like, I'm understanding good stock. And so the thing about stock— okay, I went to culinary school, so The thing about stock is that it's not—

So that restaurant must really be good because you can't go to culinary school and praise an airport restaurant and that not really mean something. So just throw back, put weight on that. But go ahead. The thing you're realizing is—

The thing I— about stock, right? They make it from the bones of the animal, whatever animal. But it's not complete without herbs, carrots, celery, other things that add to it. And when I am around y'all, I understand. Mm. I— it makes sense. And I go, I can't attribute that to you or y'all. I attribute it to your parents. I attribute— and I know we've all been through stuff and the whole nine. It's the same thing that people say when they talk to me and my brother. They're like, hey, when we come in y'all's house, we just feel peace. Right. And I just want to say to people, because I think there are people that will look at at people like you or people like me and go, oh, but you came from so much, and you came from good parents and all of that. And I want to encourage people to remember, it's not just— I think your parents are the bones, right? But the bones are just bones, right? And without the herbs and the seasoning, there, there's no character to this thing. And my prayer is that anybody who feels like they didn't come from the right place or the right family, that they would connect and find people. I'm— because I'm sitting here and I'm looking at people in this room that have become my family. Yeah. That God has brought to me, that have helped shape me and, and mold my life and help move me along the path. And things that when I just used to hear from him like this, and now I'm hearing from him like this, I'm just seeing the full circle-ness, and it only happened because I opened myself and said, I'm going to allow people in. And so I know it was a long way to come down to saying this: let people in. Wow. Let people in. Don't be afraid of being hurt so much that you don't allow yourself to be blessed, because my greatest pain, yes, has come from people, but my greatest blessing, and I'm telling you, that laughter far outweighs the tears that I've cried. Yeah. Every single time. I would give so much just to have another laugh like that. I would risk the tears. And so I hope that we are open to people and the right people, right? And and all that God wants to bring to us to help continue to mature us in him.

That's so good. That's it. Well, thanks for being you and being open because your willingness to be like, "This is who I am," to tell the truth, to have conversations, the conversations you've been having and the conversation you're having with me today, it really is not just telling people to let people in, but you're showing people how to do it. So thanks for joining me. Thank you for having me. This is great. We're gonna be in black t-shirts and black leggings together. Yes. Eating great food at restaurants and airports. Yes. Yay. Oh, what's the name of your latest album?

Oh, oh yeah. It's called Cover the Earth.

Cover the Earth. Yes, Cover the Earth. And do you want people to stream it or do you want people to buy it? Does it matter?

It does matter. It matters. I think buying—

People don't know that it matters.

It does really matter. Buying is always better if you could pre-save it Buy it, that would be cool, and then stream it.

After that, stream it. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause you bless the artist who did the work when you do that, so. Yeah. Buy the album, buy the album. Thanks for being here, girl.

Thank you for having me. Yeah.