Niya Cotton on Making Room for Your Gift

Hey there, y'all. You like my eyelashes? Listen, I came on here just for you with the eyelashes still on because, you know, I can't wait to take them off. I got a little yellow on yellow happening and the eyelashes.

I love you.

Pray for me, y'all. I'm not right in the head. I am so excited to share my conversation this week with you. You know, sometimes you get me solo on the podcast and other times you get me and somebody else. And this somebody else is someone you want to know. If you don't know who Nia Cotton is, not only after this conversation will you not forget her name, you won't forget her face, you won't forget her heart, because from her heart flows rivers of wisdom and understanding. This conversation was recorded earlier this year, and I've been holding it until just the right moment. And this week is just the right moment. Now, I don't just want you to listen with your ears. You got to listen to this podcast. With your head, but mostly with your heart. Because this girl's conversation with me is like deep calling unto deep. And sometimes, every now and again, I get a podcast guest who's willing to let me take them there. I didn't ask a question that she didn't answer. I didn't push her into a place that she didn't willingly allow me to, and that she didn't come out of that place with honesty and integrity. You're going to learn something from listening to her. But I also want you to know, after you listen to this podcast, you need to listen to her sing at Desperate for Jesus. I'll tell you more about how you can register for that amazing women's conference from my church later on in the episode. So pay attention because you're going to hear her talk now, but you need to hear her sing later. It's a whole otherworldly amazing experience. All right, y'all, I'm rambling on here mainly so you'll just see my eyelashes. I hope you've enjoyed my intro. I hope you've enjoyed my lashes, and I hope you enjoy my conversation with Ms. Naya Cotton.

So if you don't know who Naya Cotton is, Naya is an amazing worship leader. She is an amazing creative. She can invoke and invite the presence of God so amazingly. She is so sweet. And she loves the Church of God, loves serving in the Church of God. She's a mom. She's a wife. Your babies are how old?

12, 9, and 8.

So she's in the middle of that.

My God.

Uh-huh. In the middle of that. In the middle of that. And I wanted to bring her up because I think that sometimes when we're in the middle of things, it helps to have a real-life example about what building can look like. Nya has an amazing gift. And one of the things I've always admired about you is that you, you, in my opinion, from what I've seen, and I could be wrong, you can tell me if I'm wrong. You, unlike many people I see, you don't rush pushing your gifting into the world. You have waited and waited and waited and served and served and served. And I know that you desire, um, to see God do things with your music, with your voice, with worship. I mean, you've recorded albums. I've seen you do the shoots, the family videos, all of these things, you know, but you've always tried to hold the desires in check with the season God has you in. Right. Has that been frustrating for you?

No, it's been amazing and easy and wonderful. Yes. Yes. I think it is— it's tough because the world we live in is so fast and everybody's grinding to do things. And especially, you know, with social media, last night was a movie and everything is larger than life and albums and tours and all these things. And you don't see the miracle in the mundane. You don't see that it's holy to sit at the table with your children and to talk about their day, something that I've heard you all talk about many, many times. You don't see that it's holy to have patience. It's holy to wait. It's holy to repent. It's holy.

It's—

you can't put that on Instagram. Nobody's going to like that. I've always held that, and my mom can tell you, for years I've always— she's, she's like a Don't be offended. Early on, she was like a helicopter mom, like performance, and my baby can sing and all that. Now, do you want to? Mm-mm. I like being home. I like peace. I like being steady. I don't like rushing because I want to show up. When I show up, I want to give from an overflow. And I find that when I go before his word, go before Holy Spirit, I'm always depleted. I do a disservice to whoever I'm supposed to serve. I don't feel like I've done my best. And so, it's been hard because of culture to maintain that as holy, and important, and impactful, being with your children, being patient with your husband, waiting, all that. So, it's been difficult, but it is, it's paramount in my life to have steady, and to be able to, take a breath before I respond. You know, it's important to me. So it's only difficult in, you know, in comparison to the world that we live in. Yeah.

So what do you think it has cost you? Like, what's the FOMO in effect here for the pacing that you've chosen?

What has waiting cost me? Sometimes I feel like, like, did I hear you? Like, am I supposed to be doing more? Am I not in your will because I'm not producing what other people see as important? You know, you got a great voice, put out a record. You have a lot of words to say, put out a book. You know, which we need, we need it all. But I think the fear of missing out— I feared missing out on the word of God in the seasons that he's had me in. You know, we talked a little bit earlier. For me, if there's a need and I have it in my wheelhouse to do, then it's like, okay, well, I should be the one to do it, right? There's a need. They need it. Naya, can you take me to the airport?

I have a car.

Not doing anything.

Yeah, sure.

I'm supposed to do this without saying holy. And I don't want to overspiritualize everything, but without taking a beat and a breath to say, is this something that I can do from the overflow? Is this something that I can do as unto you? And so the fear of missing out in waiting is sometimes I don't know, is this me being comfortable, you know, or is this me waiting to hear your voice? Is this me in my own just, no, I don't wanna rush, I don't want, he's like, well, I'm telling you to, some stuff you got to do, you got to go out the house sometime. Like, no, I just wanna hear your voice. Like, go girl. So the dichotomy of, is this me or is this you, is probably something that I've had to differentiate, you know, in the years.

Do you feel behind?

Sometimes I do. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I did. Less now, more than before, because— and I don't know if everyone in here or even people watching— It's like, I know what doing does though, when I get to doing and grinding and moving and picking up and dropping off. 3 times in my life that I can pinpoint, I've dealt with depression. And it didn't feel sad, it didn't feel— I'd still cook for the kids and did all the things, it just felt empty. And it felt numb. It felt like I'm driving and a car just goes and I'm just, you know, ooh, that was crazy. Instead of like, There's something happening here. It just stripped me of my senses. So less now, more than before, because I feel that as a collective, as women in particular, we're figuring out it's about the being. It's not about the do. We do from a place of being. That's where the gold— that's where the gold is. And so I still struggle a little bit, if I'm honest. You know, can I do more? But I— I like hearing his voice and him saying, "With this thing, I'm with you. So now you can go," instead of me being out there by myself.

How do you think, well, you probably just answered it. I was gonna say, how do you think you've gotten more comfortable? And I think what I just heard you say is because you like the experience of overflow and you like the experience of hearing his voice more. You fall in love more with that than with the accolade that comes from the doing.

Oh my goodness. Absolutely.

But some people don't. Some people, particularly people on stage, get addicted to the accolade. And if they're not on stage, people please. I just want to make sure everybody's okay. And they are, we can be more addicted to people saying, "Good job. That's great. I'm glad you were here." What would you say to the person who wants to hear God's voice, but is addicted to the accolade? Whether they're on a stage, or it's just the being the person at work that everybody can depend on, or being the person in their family that will make sure it gets done. What would you say to that person?

Um, there's a vast difference between someone saying, "You did a good job," and the Lord saying, "Ooh, I'm so proud of you." There is a huge difference in that. Oh gosh, just even thinking about, like, it breaks me down. I think about it often, like the creator of the sun that has been burning forever, and the moon, and the stars, and the cloud. Like, he has time to say, "That's my girl. You did a good job. You said no when you could have said yes. That's my girl," you know? People applaud what they see without knowing that there's a— there's something in there. So, you know, on social media, somebody just got married. Oh my God, congratulations! I don't know if that's who you're supposed to be with. You know, we just go off of what we think is good, what we think is good, but our good and his good are so different. Some like the valley is good to him. It doesn't feel good to us, but we see a new car and, oh my God, this is great. I don't know if you can make the payments for that. I don't know, you know? And so, and, and I— it's important to encourage, you know. I don't feel like I have to say that, you know. I think everybody under— it's important to hear those words of affirmation, but it's so different when he's like, I see what they can't see. I see that You've really wanted something, and you know, you said no to this opportunity because you're trusting me. That's good. That's a—

you did a—

that's a good job you did, you know? So, I would encourage me, us, to fall in love with the good that God gives, because it comes with peace. It comes with all the fruit of the Spirit. It comes with long-suffering. It comes with endurance. It takes time, my gosh. He may not— he will not come when you want him, you know, but it's complete when he finishes it, and there's nothing missing, nothing broken as he does it, you know, and you're present, and you're not missing people. We go so quickly, and, "How you doing?" "I'm good." Like, nobody's really seeing one another and seeing though and having the discernment. "I didn't like your— I didn't like the way you said that," you know. Those are the little things that We can't see, but heaven gives us an atta girl, you know. So fall in love with the good that God gives.

One of the things I admire about you is that you early on decided to be planted. You actually have been here at Trinity for many years, and I recently saw the Sunday where Pastor was saying, you were planted here. So often the building process requires time with us being planted. I was talking about Psalm 1 and being planted by the rivers of water and it brings forth good fruit in due season. There's a season for the fruit, but being planted takes time and you have to be there when you might not be seeing anything. And I also admire this of you, and I told you this earlier, is I think in general, we like to rush, but also generationally, we kind of skip around. We change jobs, we change churches. What do you think that being planted has given to you, and deciding to submit to a season, where you could have been doing things at a lot of different churches, doing the— but you were like, "I'm going to serve here, and I'm going to be planted here for this season." What did that give you?

I think it parallels our relationship with the Father. I love the scripture that talks about, "How can you love me that you've never seen?" And you— like, we have opportunities in marriage that mirror the relationship between the Lord and his church. We have all these opportunities to see these parallels, these heavenly supernatural parallels. Parallels. And so how can we be submitted to a Lord that we cannot see, um, and not be submitted to leadership? You know, not— how can we not be told, no, that what you might want to go another way? And whether it's a church or a mentor or whatever it is, submission— my generation, I'm an older millennial, and Gen Zers, it's like, I go wherever the wind— can't nobody tell— I know we need to be submitted as unto the Lord. It's a, it's a service as unto him. And The more submitted we are, the more grounded we are, the more— it's like a play— not a playground, but it's— church is kind of like a training ground where we can learn how to hear from the Father, relate to other people, forgive, shift, pivot, you know. It's like the perfect place to be trained in the things of the Lord. And so, being planted here, particularly in the last 8 years, has done more for me, um, than I can even express. Um, we have these big ideas, but the Lord is like, I want you to be able to get there and to sustain it. And so you're going to have to learn how to forgive. You're going to have to learn how to not be offended. You're going to have to learn how to serve even when you feel underappreciated. You have to learn. And then we have wonderful moments. You have to learn how to deal with different people and to bring out the gifts in children. And these are all the things that I've been able to do here in this building— how to say I'm sorry, I apologize. This is where you learn how to do it. And so he's like, I have great plans for you, but you're not going to be able to sustain it if you don't go through the basic training, uh, where you are. So submission, it's— it, it is holy and it is, it is necessary. And And I would just encourage all of us, but our young, the millennials and Gen Zers, we need it. We need it before we get to fly. We gotta be pulled back a little bit, you know, and learn more about ourselves. There were things that were in my heart I didn't even know were there. You know, pride and all those just things that he broke down in me on a small— and that's the beauty of not being, out in the open. I don't have to learn this stuff in front of millions and millions of people. Get submitted somewhere where it's quiet, where it ain't but 100 people in the building. It's Sister So-and-So offended you, make it right with her, and then I'll make you, you know, rulers. If you're faithful over the few, then I'll make you—

So, it's Sister So-and-So will sit you down.

She'll sit you down, and you got to be, you got to be okay with it, because sometimes he sits us down. You know, and so it's been a journey. I am— this is very interesting that I'm here today, because I'm still at the very beginning of this transition. But it's been so beautiful, and I felt the hand of the Lord, like, "I got you." I haven't had to release relationships, just shift assignment, and that's okay.

Ladies, Desperate for Jesus is It's almost here, and we have a live simulcast experience designed with you in mind. It's gonna be a time for all of us to connect with God and with each other, and we want you to join us right from home. You could do that this year. We're building our house.

That's our theme, thinking about home and what it means to make an investment there.

And to help us do that, we're gonna have some incredible special guests. The one and the only Carol Kent, Dr. Nicole Massey Martin will be joining us, Jackie Hill Perry, and there'll be incredible praise and worship music by Nia Cotton and Amber Bullock. Join us July 26th and 27th from your home, a friend's house, a coffee shop, from your bed, wherever you need to be. Simulcast registration is open right now at dfjconference.com.

We'll see you soon. You named some of them, but you talked about forgiveness, and being submitted, and saying, "I'm sorry," and excavating pride. When you look toward what you either think is a part of your next season, what you hope is a part of the next season, what you know is a part of the next season, what are some other bricks that you've gotten in the last 8 years being planted here that you know if I wasn't here, I would not be ready for this?

I take breaths a little bit before I answer, just to—

I just want to make sure you're going to stick with the first answer, though.

I know. I'm trying my best.

She laughed, and then she started thinking. I'm like, wait, wait, wait. Don't skip the laugh.

OK, I'll say this. One of the things— Trinity Church, where we are now, is a multiethnic church. And so early on, I've had this— email address, Nia Global Girl. Everybody feels like they're called to the nations. Like, somebody got to be in the city, okay? Everybody can't be abroad. But being able to learn different languages has been important to me, and not I know one fluent one that's English, but to learn different languages of people, you know, there's some people who are more reserved. There are people that come from, you know, cultures that I don't come from. When I first— if I could be honest, when I first got here, when I was growing up, you know, a lot of people say, "Don't call people by their first name." Like, you put a handle on it. That's sister so-and-so, brother so-and-so, aunt so-and-so, uncle so-and-so. And not everybody does that in every culture. And so I would come, and you got a 3-year-old, "Hey, Nya." And I'm like, oof. Whoo! My gosh. I didn't know. I didn't know that was a thing. "Hey, Nya." Oh, that was the best. Like, sweet sugar, put a handle on it. Sister something, aunt something. But that's just a funny example. But learning different— if you're going to be called, and I'd show you all of these things, you have to learn the different language people. You have to be able to come up out of yourself and your practice. This is how I communicate. Yeah, but if you want people to get it, you have to understand the language. Get in there. I have actually an interesting— we lived in— I was at LA for a little bit, and Dr. Judith McAllister, you all know her, praise and worship, just extraordinary. She's a queen in my eyes. I started at a church in Santa Monica, California, and I was 20-something, fresh out of college, and they wanted me to come and be the minister of music. So, they said, "We just want you to come and just shake it up, you know, just do you." So, I'm coming in there, "Okay, so here's what we going to do. Y'all going to move over." Like, I just start, came in hot. I was coming in hot, hot, hot, hot. Came in hot. We're going to change it around. And the first choir rehearsal, the First Lady was like, "Let me talk to you for a second," and took me in the bathroom. And she let me have it. I was a mess. She said, "This is not what we do." She's just lighting into me. It's the best thing that ever happened. So, I went to Judith McAllister, and I was like, "They don't understand me. They told me they wanted me to come in and change it up. Now they don't. What do they want?" She said, Tell me, like, who? Like, tell me some of their names. I don't know. Like, we just here to sing the songs. And she's like, who are they? Like, who are these people? What are they— what are they saying? What are they— what's their language? And I'm like, I don't— I don't know. I don't care about that. They want me— she's like, you have to learn the language of the culture before you can even start making little change. Don't change anything. Get in there and learn people's names. Learn their families. Learn— like, sit down and have dinner with them. Sit down with people who you don't know and people who are different than you. Get in the culture. Do life with these people. Then you build the relational equity to where they're open, you know, to change. And I learned that there, and I applied it here as well. And so one of the bricks that I've gotten here is listening, listening to people and not feeling like I know it all, listening to stories and experiences. And allowing it to impact me. You brought me here to do something, but I was here also to gain from you as well. And so, it widened my net of understanding. You know, I don't know much about— I didn't know much about the Assemblies of God or that denomination, but getting in there and not despising it, but finding ways that we can connect and then creating a language that we can all understand, so. But it's absolutely a season, as we were talking earlier, of pruning to multiply. Pruning to multiply. Last year was— last year was a lot. Not for everybody. I mean, you know, we were different, but last year was— there was a lot. And I'm finding out the difference between the Matrix and Zion. What's the Matrix?

And what—

anybody seen The Matrix? Okay. Yeah, there's Zion, which to me is home. You know, and then there's the matrix of anywhere that's not home. And home can be anywhere. It can be your home or wherever you feel most safe or whatever. But I'm learning because sometimes the matrix can feel like Zion, especially with the applause that you were talking about. There are people there that you love and applause, but learning what is sacred and how much time to spend in the matrix and make sure that I make my way make my way back home. So, it's a lot of pruning, a lot of throwing away, a lot of quiet, a lot of waiting, you know, a lot of seeing other people doing things that are kind of in your experience and waiting for his okay to go and his atta girl. So, I'm excited.

What is he asking you to build right now? What bricks is he asking you to lay? He's handed them to you and he said, this is the season for putting this brick right here.

He is— I don't know what you would call this brick, but I feel the invitation to be with him. Just be, be with me. I just want to be with you.

He look like for you?

That looks like the awareness of his presence everywhere I go. Take me, take me with you. If we're serving, I want to be with you here. If it's in the kitchen with the kids, take me. I want to be there too. Invite me in. Because it can be very easy when you do things for the Lord to leave him out of it. And it's so, it's so murky.

I'm working for you.

That's one of the most— that's one of the scariest scriptures. I did all these things in your name. And he's like, I didn't know you. Every day I'm like, Lord, please don't let me be one of the ones, the Jude. I will throw it all away. I want to be with you. And sometimes it takes that, you know, that extra, okay, Lord, what do you want me to do? I used to hear people say, well, Lord, what do you want me to wear? Okay, pipe down. That's a lot. It's not. It's not. Some people are, "I just need, I want you with me." And so, that's what I feel that the Lord is saying. "I want to be with you. I don't just want you to work for me. I want us to walk together. I want us to do it together. I want to talk to you, and walk with you, and," like you said earlier, "tell you that you're my own." You know, there's a joy. There's a joy there.

'As we tarry there, none other, Kenneth, has ever known.' That's another way you know you're getting old, when you start speaking in hymns, literally. Literally. I know verses 1, 2, and 4.

And we never did 3.

And because you never did 3. And also, when I'm in a whole interview, I'd be like, 'You know, there's a joy there when I tarry there.

None other has ever known.' You know, he walks with me. And not only that, he He talks to me.

And he tells me I am his own. That's how you know.

That's how you know. That's how you know. So, the brick is being with him. He's like, I've seen you. You've done a lot of this in your own strength. So, give me the weight, because mine is easier and lighter. And let's walk this thing together. Yeah.

What are you hoping that he will give you or hand to you to place, whether it's this year or 5 years from now? What are your dreams for the things that bricks he hands you will build? Like, it may not be for now, but you're like, I hope he gives me this brick. I would like to place this brick in this place.

One of the things is for our family to do this thing together. For a long time, my husband is in ministry, I'm in ministry, and we've kind of had this— I call it joint custody situation— where he's kind of going out and doing his thing. And about a year ago, he was like, I think that's done. I think the power and the grace is in us doing it together. And so, whatever it is, I don't have, if I'm honest, Chrystal, I don't have a lot of— my mom asks me all the time, "Who is somebody you would want to—" And it's no slight to anybody, but I just enjoy the doors that he opens, you know? I don't have any aspirations to, "If I could just sing with—" I don't. I really want him to be with me wherever I am, but I do want my family to do it together. And I want to give my gift, the gift to my children of being steadfast and unmovable.

There you go again, talking in scriptures. No, it's just coming.

I want them to know what it's like to be abound and abased, to have and to lack, but to know that they can do all things. To not be shaken by what they see, but to be steady. Okay, cool. We have a lot. Awesome. We don't have anything? Butter sandwiches it is. You know, like, to be steady, to not be shaken by this world, because it— every day you can just— it's positive and the negative, and then there's war, and then somebody got married, and then it's like, it's too much. It is way too much. And our bodies are trying to figure out, like, what do you want me to do? With all of this information. I want to give them the gift of Holy Spirit, giving them peace and rest, being able to work from a place of rest. That's what I want. I want to be able to last. I want to have endurance. So I don't have any, you know, bricks of aspiration other than being able to finish the journey well.

Last question for you. I know that It's all right. No, this is great.

I'mma Cash App you. How much is therapy? It's expensive. I'mma Cash App you. It's all right.

Just come and see me. Okay. You've talked a lot about your children. You've talked a lot about home. You've talked a lot about just wanting to be faithful there. I'm curious, do you enjoy home?

I do, probably too much. I love being home. I love being home. The irony is we've moved around a lot. I was born in Virginia and then moved to DC, then moved to Maryland, then moved back to DC, and then went to Hampton University in Virginia for college. And then my parents were in Detroit because my mom was working at General Motors, and then We moved to Southern California, and then I went to Japan to teach for 4 months and came back, and they were in Northern California, and then moved to Dallas. And so home is— it's always been interesting. Where are you from? Child, pick a place. I like being home, not my physical home, but I like being in a place of safety. Home is very safe. Home has been with friends in different seasons. Home has been with my children, with my husband. I love home. I love home. Somebody should do a conference called Home. I'm joking. I love home. I love home. Home is where God is. Home is where peace is. All those things that you can't see, that's home. And so my goal is to take that. I've done it in my life. Home has shifted. But wherever I go, I want to be able to, as Stephanie Gretzinger says, to catch his gaze. You know, you don't get nervous before you sing? Sometimes, not because of people, but because I want to do what the Lord is telling me, but he's just like, "Find me. Find me. Oh, there you are. Okay, I'm home." So, I just, I want to find home no matter where my geographic location is. Anywhere I go, I just want to be home, which is very interesting too, because of the things that God has allowed me to do. Find these homes, whether it's at Trinity or Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship or One Community in Plano. Like, there's home everywhere because he's there. That was very deep. Is that what your question was? Did I answer your question? It is.

I want— I was asking because sometimes people are focused on being faithful to lay bricks where they know they're supposed to put them. Home, but it's not necessarily their favorite place to be. Like, there are people who would say, I like being home, but maybe this season of raising children is not the funnest season. Or maybe they like being home, but maybe there's stress in a marriage. Or maybe they— and so sometimes God is asking us to build or put down bricks in places that are not the easiest to be in. But it sounds like for you it's where you —where you want to be. I love being home. So then let me add on to the question. Okay. Has there ever been a place where God has asked you to lay bricks where it was hard to lay bricks?

Chrystal Hurst! Oh, yes!

Where was that? When and why? And what'd you learn? Here.

—here. I think being in those different spaces with different people, sometimes you're misunderstood when you don't speak the same language. When I went to Japan, people slurp their ramen and soup. I'm like, that is the rudest thing, but that's not— that's natural for them, you know. There's just a different language. And so the last 8 years have been some of the most brutal and beautiful years of my life. Being, um, applauded for what you do, but nobody really knowing what's going on on the inside. People can— you can fool the people if you sing well and you move right and look like you're anointed. Oh, you are amazing! Not knowing I am depressed. I can't— I'm trying to move to remind my body that there's still life there. It has nothing to do with and, you know, an offering to the Lord for my own cognition. I'm trying to— I'm trying not to get numb again. You have such freedom when you worship. I'm trying to remind my body that it's still— that it's still valuable and worth something. So the past— I would even say the past 3 years since 2020, my goodness, that just illuminated so much, you know, from COVID to even just racial things. It's a beautiful thing being in multi-ethnic spaces, but it is, it is tough. It is tough to navigate, and especially from a leadership position, or, you know, pastors. I, I, we must continue to pray for our pastors who are trying to navigate these waters of the local church. It is tough, um, to have racial things happen and not feel heard or not feel seen. And then the election happened and then seeing on social media what people really feel, you know. On Sundays it's, "Sister Nya, I love your family," but then you scroll and it's vitriol. That's tough. It's tough going through transitions and seasons, but still having to serve and be faithful. And especially from worship, like, this isn't like I can hide anywhere in a booth, or, you know, it's like you're feeling all these things and the countdown clock is going, 3, 2, 1, good morning everybody! You know, it's hard. It's been hard, but it's been so necessary. That parallel, that supernatural kingdom, heavenly parallel of being able to suffer with him and to reign with him, carrying your cross. It's an invitation to be like Jesus. And so as hard as it's been, I wouldn't trade anything. I wouldn't trade anything. I'd do it all over again because now I know, I know I have a little bit of a glimpse into what it's like to look like him. And so we have more to talk about now. He's like, "I know how hard it was. Trust me, I know what it's like to be misunderstood. I know what it's like to be ostracized. I know what it's like to be expected to do all these things, you know, these miracles." I'm not trying to— you got me, okay. I know what that's like. And so now the invitation, I think that's why I shed tears, because he's like, "Okay, now." It's, "I want you to be with me now.

You can rest now." I loved how you put the two words together. It's brutal, but it's beautiful.

It's the cross. It's a picture of the cross. It's brutal and beautiful at the same time. And that's, it's life. It's always this dichotomy of wonder and woes. I'm so Baptist. I was trying to think of like W.C. Taylor.

You can't help yourself.

Yeah. But they go together. They go together. And he's in that tension. He's in that tension. And so, I'm becoming more okay with living and breathing in the tension. Of the gospel.

It's so good. Thank you for being honest. My God. Transparent, authentic.

See what I told you? You see, I was telling you the truth. That conversation with Nya is golden. If you watched it once or listened to it once, you might need to watch or listen to it again because Some of that stuff just needs to seep into your mind, your heart, your brain, your body, your soul. But more than our conversation, I don't want you to forget that you need to hear this girl sing. So make sure you don't miss out on Desperate for Jesus. Go to dfjconference.com right now to register for the simulcast. And don't forget to not miss out on everything else happening here. Be sure you are locked in and subscribed on your favorite podcast player, or if you're watching on YouTube or Facebook, make sure you are subscribed and locked in and following, because I might have some things that pop up here and there that I don't really tell you about in advance. If you're subscribed, you'll be sure to know. All right, y'all, now before you hang up where I see you next time, I want you to tell me in the chat below What was your one takeaway from our conversation? What's the thing that stuck with you and just reverberated through your mind, body, and heart? I'd love for you to share that in the comments and let me know what you're thinking now that you've heard this chat.