Pastor Mike Todd on Living in the Overflow of Love

Hey, I cannot wait for you to enjoy my guest from today, Michael Todd, Pastor Michael Todd. If you don't know who he is, I don't know where you've been. Not only is he a preacher and a music producer, he's also a father. And it's super important to him that not only is he ingesting and teaching and sharing the word of God, but that his children understand the importance of what he values because of his relationship with the Lord. So we're going to talk a little bit about him being Pastor Michael Todd, but a lot about also what it means for two people to love each other and how that impacts their children, and so much more. I can't wait to dive into this interview with you. So here we go. So if you don't know who Michael Todd is, you pretty much don't live in America. I mean, it's, uh, uh, Transformation Church, uh, Michael Todd, the ministry, the music, the messages, the edginess, the, the real talk, the concepts, the clothes, the all the things. You just, you just, yeah, you're just, you're just under a rock. But if you are new to Pastor Michael Todd, then, uh, you will get to know him. And I'm glad to, um, have the opportunity to talk to Pastor Mike. So You are here with me, Pastor. Pastor Mike, Pastor Todd, I'm not in your culture. What am I supposed to say?

But you— what do you mean? We're— we're— you just supposed to say you love me, I love you, and we're here to have a conversation about whatever you want.

I just don't want to be the weird one that's like, why was she saying Pastor Todd the whole time? We call him Pastor Mike. Or why was she saying Pastor Mike? That's so disrespectful.

No, no, my name is Michael. I just happened to be a pastor. If I was a mailman You wouldn't call me Mailman Mike, you would call me Michael. And you know that I would deliver the mail. So, you know, I don't really care about titles. I care about actual transformation. So however it happens, you know what I'm saying? As long as you don't call me, uh, or something crazy, you know what I'm saying? I'm good with it. Let's go.

So I am most infatuated with, if I can use that word, um, I'm, I am most infatuated with, uh, the amount of B-roll you get from your life. Uh, case in point, um, there was one time where, you know, you had a camera set up in y'all's therapy session, you know, and you put it down, you got yourself walking back to the couch, you got yourself walking back to pick up the phone. And I just want to know, honestly, is your wife just accustomed to it? Does she just deal with it? Is she like sometimes turn that off? Like, what is the dynamic relationally about the amount of B-roll you always getting?

Yeah, yeah, so all the time. She don't post nothing on Instagram barely. She don't do none of that because that's not her thing. But one of the things that she allows me to do is be myself. And I think part of the way that I spread the gospel is by giving an example. Like, the truth of the matter is that in a technology age where people are watching all kinds of stuff, They're watching things that are mindless. They're watching things that will lead them to sin. They're watching things that will just distract them. Part of my issue when I was younger is I just didn't have any good examples. Like all my examples were rappers or like celebrities or like, but like men of God, like I listened to them, but I didn't want to be like them. Like I didn't, like I didn't want they life. I didn't want to dress like them. I didn't want to eat at the places they ate. I didn't want the physique that they had. I didn't want anything. And so like, As a, as a young person, it was very hard for me to understand the concept of what a godly, pure man looked like, what a man of valor looked like. What does a man who loves his wife— what do they do? Like, I never saw Black men going to counseling, let alone going to counseling with their wife. And it's hard to be what you've never seen, right? And a lot of people have never seen that. And so I thought, um, part of my way of being efficient as well as being able to steward over all the many things that God has given me to steward well, is to capture moments. You didn't hear what we were saying in the counseling session, because if you heard it, then that, that my wife would have, I would be not on this interview right now. But we were talking real, we were talking, but showing the image of a husband and a wife leaving the gym, talking to a middle-aged white woman, as we got 4 kids in school and we got to be out of our therapy session in, in 15 minutes. Like, that freed somebody. You, you would be surprised at the DMs and the emails and the conviction that comes to people just by seeing an image. And I just believe, like, right now the Great Commission is to go into all the world and make disciples, like, to, to point them to the things that will lead them to Jesus, and then after they get to Jesus, show the things that's gonna make them more like him. And for me, counseling has been one of those things that have made me more like him because it's shown me more of me. And if you never see that picture, I've never seen my favorite pastors talking about counseling. I've never— like, they can preach the paint off the wall, but like, who's your therapist? Like, this is the counselor I go— like, none of that thing. So when my life and my scriptures came to a point where they were fighting and I didn't know what to do on the inside of you. And there was all this— on the inside of me. And there were all this trauma and turmoil and all this other stuff. I needed help. And I had to be like a lone Black person going out here talking to mostly white people. And I say that because there's a stigma around it. Just the last 5 or 6 years, there's been a lot more diversity in the therapy community. But when I was starting to go to counseling, I was like, It looked like I was walking into a scene of a movie from 1932. And I was like, like, and what happened was I found freedom there. And I wanna share everything in my life that brings me closer to God and lets me walk in freedom. So yes, my wife hates it. Two, she knows it helps people. Three, half the time she don't even know it's on. So I like, she's in the mode and she don't even know what's going on. But we have found that it's helped so many singles, couples, parents be able to make a step, take a step of faith, because they just see it. It's very hard to be what you have never seen.

So you use the word everything. You know, you want to share everything, and you are a sharer. And beyond B-roll, the way you put yourself out there, just in terms of the example that even by mouth you're giving in your sermons, what you've experienced, what God has brought you through. So just talking about everything. And you mentioned even pastors that I don't know, pastors that are talking about going to their therapist or, you know, getting their counseling. And some of that is generational. And I think the sharing also is generational. So, but there you have people who are wrestling with the line, you know, you've got people in one generation will say these young people, they tell all they business, like, why are they online sharing everything? Everybody doesn't need it. Like these people don't even know them. You have a public, uh, ministry, then therefore a different level of sharing may be appropriate. But what counsel would you give somebody who's living in this tech world where we share our stuff when it's too much or too far?

Yeah, so I think the necessity of sharing for me came from two things. Number one is I can't be fake. So it's very hard—

not wired that way.

I'm not wired that way. Like, I can't, like, be in the middle of something and then be telling you something. And I'm not actually being honest of how it affects me and what's going on in my life. And so it's— there's a personality side of it for me, that is a real thing that I'm just gonna always be 100% about whatever I'm going through, because that's, that's how I connect to people. When I see real people, when I see authentic people, I connect to those people, even if they're bad, even if they're wrong, it's like they 100% them. And that means they can actually change. And whenever they change, they'll be 100% them. And that's the thing, um, for me that, um, is very, um, I think core to my DNA, core to like who I am. The second thing is I share a lot because it's the way that I stay safe. The Bible says that overcome by the blood of the Lamb— that's the work Jesus did— but then the word of testimony. And I think many people are bound because they do not share what they don't want people to know. And I know tons of people that have struggled with lust and pornography and greed and manipulation and all that, and you would think they were an angel. You would think they came out wearing skirts down to their ankles. You would think that they've all— they've never cussed, they've never— thing. And it's because shame and guilt has made them think that by sharing that, somehow their value is less. It really makes you know that God's value is more, that with all the stuff that you did, everything that you've come through, that that God would still use you and bless you, bring you to this place, it makes his name great. And so part of my sharing is to boast in how amazing God has been in my life. And if everything is perfect in your life and you never share about the struggle and you never share about the addiction, then you never share about the jealousy or the comparison or all that other stuff, it makes it seem like God's power is not as strong as it actually is in your life. And so for me, this is how I overcome. And it's cool for people to think that I overshare, he tells too much and all that, but I'm free. Like, the difference between me and a lot of people is I'm actually happy. I'm actually like, how, how I am right now, this is actually me. Like, I didn't come here, I'm still in my workout pants and my workout shoes under this. I don't, I'm not even matching all the way. Because I'm me, like, and I would It must be exhausting.

It is.

To always put on a mask, a facade, or a show instead of showing up fully how you are today. And I just believe— one of my friends said this about me, and it really made me think. He said, Mike is so much himself that it gives me permission to be me.

Yeah. Yeah.

I want people to be— I want them to be 100% them because God doesn't bless who you pretend to be. He blesses who you really are. And if you actually be where you are today and be 100% confident in that, even if it's not where you really want to be, that means when God moves you forward, when he progresses you, you can actually be 100% that person. I won't always do examples how I do now. I won't always, um, do the things, but I'm 100%— 10-year version of me from now will be authentically who I am. And I just believe Um, that's how God wants us all to live.

That's so good. That's, that's so good. You know, you, um, when you, when you— there's something in me that was a little surprised when you said a little bit ago, like, I didn't have, um, examples. I created this whole narrative from another thing that you shared, um, where you're on the floor prostrate before the event at the church, you've got your people praying for you. And so in my mind, I created this whole narrative, you know, not even knowingly, not subconsciously, but when you said that, it triggered me to think, like, I'm thinking these are his people. He grew up in this great church. He's got all these family, friends, and those things may have been true, but I just thought, I just saw covered Mike, which, which connected to me to, um, you having this experience of because you're in ministry the way that you are, that, that came from that covering, that encouragement, and from what you've seen. So I, I'd love for you to talk a little bit about—

oh, this is good—

what you did see, um, what you did have, what you needed that you didn't have. Uh, just a little bit more about that, because I think people do make assumptions, 100%, all the time. Um, and I think when you share snippets of your life, people are going to extrapolate the assumptions that equate to them. So talk to me a little bit more about that.

So I had the best example of spiritual development anybody could ever have. I was raised in a church called Higher Dimensions, and at the time it was led by Carlton Pearson, and it was a multi-ethnic, multiplying, Spirit-filled church. I mean, music, uh, worship, prayer, noonday prayer, 6 AM prayer, 6 PM prayer, like, and my mom My dad moved from Louisiana to Tulsa to help start that church in the late '70s. My dad was the first sound man, my mom was the first worship leader. Like, I was born into a move of God. And so when I talk about having examples, I had amazing spiritual examples. I did not have examples on how to live life. Like, I had examples of how to do church and be able to actually pray and fast and all that. I didn't have good examples of how to have friends. I didn't have good examples of like, what do you do for fun? When do you go on vacation? Like, I know we're praying for everybody, but when do y'all play? Like, what? Like, is everything like, oh, Robo Code? Like, when? Like, how do you do this 'Cause the Bible says that Jesus came that we might have life and life to the full, not church and church to the full, not prayer meetings and prayer meetings to the full. And I think the church in the generation before us, they learned how to do the, I wanna say, I'm using my words carefully, they learned how to do—

I always say, say it and then fix it, 'cause then we just know what you're talking about, yeah.

They learned how to do the performance of church. They learned how to do the platform of church. They learned how to do the conferences of church. And it really left something to be desired for the actual day-to-day living. Like, how do you raise kids? Like, how do you go on date night when you mad at your wife? Like, the babysitter's already paid for. Like, you are home.

And I don't want to go with you.

And I don't want to go with you.

Just sidebar, we done done that. We done done that. Listen, I love you, but we have a babysitter. I don't want to be with you. You go do something that makes you happy. I'm going to go do something that makes me happy. I'll see you back here tonight.

I'll see you back here tonight. I'll wait in the driveway for you. But like, those are all things that many times I had to figure out first generation. Yeah, because they did not show us. They showed us the laying hands, they showed us the giving, they showed us— which are all super valuable things that have kept me and helped me and, and, and raised me and helped me be Sanctified, but it did not cover the other 15 hours of the day where I had to figure out how to do those things. And so I— when, um, God gave me revelation of how to not have two separate worlds, because most people, the truth of the matter is they go to church on Sunday and then they have life.

Yeah.

What God told me to do, he said, I'm supposed to be the center, I'm supposed to be in the middle, and everything else is supposed to revolve around that. And Michael, I need you to represent me. That's why the whole thing, anything you see, I say represent, or it's represent, or it's represent. But that was the vision God gave me. He said, most people have an idea of me, but they've been misrepresented the version that I want to give them. And everybody knows, like, it's really horrible to be misrepresented. Like, if somebody was talking about you and he was like, you know, that person who, she mean, and you know, she kind of tall and she dark-skinned, well, they would have they would have misrepresented who you were. And I just think that so many times God is misrepresented. And God gets misrepresented in posts. He gets misrepresented in comments. He gets misrepresented in interactions that people have. And God was telling me, he said, Michael, I just want you to represent me. I want you to show me different. And part of that for me was going back and thinking in my teenage to young adulthood, like, what did I see? Like, And so everything that I do honestly is for my 17-year-old self.

Yeah.

I saw that quote from Virgil Abloh that like, that was the age where I was making decisions who I was going to be and what I was going to do and who was I going to hang out with and what did I like and what was I drawn to. And so for me, like everything from the fashion to the examples that I use to actually showing marriage in a light that is real but actually is good. Like that's for my 17-year-old self because I needed, um, I had all of the amazing examples spiritually, but most of the people who could prophesy over me, I did not want their marriages. Like, the wife did happy and the kids was bad. Like, it, like, you know what I'm saying? And, and again, we are in a different age where a lot of people's lives could not be seen because you saw the clip on TV or TBN, or you know what I'm saying, something like that. But even in our churches and stuff like that. And so for me, um, that's my, that's my goal is to be, um, what I did not have, one, but then to be an example to somebody that I may never actually talk to. Yeah, but the Great Commission is to go into all the world and make disciples. Right now, where is all the world at? They're on the internet. Yeah, and there are many pastors that, you know, I'm just focused on my church body and da da da, and I'm like, cool, But if you keep traveling how you're traveling, you're going to go into all the world and your kids are not going to know you. Like, you're going to go into all the world and your wife is going to have an emotional affair with somebody who's there. Like, and we've seen this story over and over and over again. We have embraced that. Maybe we live in a time where no, nothing can take away the power of the touch. Nothing can take away the power of looking somebody in their eyeballs. But The word of God, and the words of God through men have, and the words of God written down through books have transformed lives for years. And what if those words could go out and you could still be on date night, even if you don't like your wife that night, you know what I'm saying? And be able to apologize or rekindle your love or meet with somebody else. And so, Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at right now. I just, I stay home and I want to reach the world. Like, that's basically it.

You stay home and you reach the world. So you have this book for kids that came out, a couple of Relationship Goals for Kids, which obviously is an overflow of the book Relationship Goals. So before I even get into the relationship part of it, just what you were talking about as far as what you were seeing in example beyond spiritual example, just regular stuff. In the regular stuff, because a lot of times what people are doing is hiding some of their regular stuff from their kids. I don't want you to know that I drink this, smoke this, say this, with the, with the altruistic desire to present an example. I'm trying to present an example to you, the example that I do want you to emulate. So I don't want you to see some of the things I don't want you to emulate. Maybe because I'm working on them. Maybe not because I'm divided, but just I'm working on them. Has there been something in your intentional example to your children about relationship and love? Um, has there been anything that you can talk about today where you're like, actually, with all of my authenticity, I wish my kids hadn't seen that? I'm— maybe I'm glad that they saw me repent, saw me say I'm sorry, saw me whatever, but I wish that this real side of me they hadn't seen.

Well, I have— my oldest is 10. So there has— this transformation that's happened in my heart has really happened as she's grown up. Like, the last 10 years has been a very under the hood, like, heart issue, childhood trauma, counseling, wife depressed, son has autism, like, We have been really working on, like, us. And so honestly, I can say, with all authenticity, we, we probably share a little more with our kids than people would actually probably be okay with. Because they either learn from us, or they're gonna learn from culture. Either— they're— everything I learned, I learned in the sixth grade bathroom. With a bunch of nasty, can't pee in the toilet, like, young men. I was sheltered, with good intention, from a lot of things, but then my first introduction to it was something that was so perverted and so backwards and didn't have anything of God into it. And so me and my wife, both of us talked before we got married, before we had kids, is like, We want to be a place that our children actually can see us fail and fall forward so that they can learn and we can talk about it. Because a lot of the things are like, I just don't want to bring it up to my kids. You better bring it up to your kids. Like, because they're playing these little games and there's creeps out here in, in all of these chats. And there's, there's people at their school and like, Like, I want to be the strongest, most potent voice in my children's life. And many times that means I'm gonna have to bring things up that bust the bubble of their, uh, uh, purity. Like, that bust the bubble of— and when I say purity, like the, the purity of thought. Like, oh, they were just touching. No, they were touching wrong, and they weren't supposed to be doing that, and they're not married. And the reason we do this is because Mom and Daddy are married. Like, we have those conversations with our 10-year-old, our 8-year-old, our 6-year-old. And, and the reason we do that is because the devil is in an all-out war to steal the minds of our children.

Straight up.

And we over here playing timid, like, no, let's wait till they're 17. 17? They've already been touched. Somebody already seen their private areas. They've already sent pictures. Like, and I know right now people listening, they're like, if you feel that, you are in delusion. Like, You are— and you got all these movie channels, and you got all access to all this stuff, and you think that they have not been infiltrated by those thoughts? And so for me, this is a great question, and I'm grateful to say no, there hasn't been anything that I can think of now. Now, we do have locks on all of our doors now in the house because our kids be trying to get in, and I don't want to scar them in a way that they will be undone for the rest of their life. So— We have gotten locks on every door in this house, and so, um, hopefully we keep them from that for, uh, the foreseeable. But other than that, I just think it's simple.

Wait a minute, because somebody missed it. You didn't say— you didn't say locks on our bedroom door. You said locks on every door.

All the doors. You have to understand, this whole house is mine. Do you?

I feel the presence of God.

This territory is my territory, so I need to know that wherever the Lord calls for worship, we gonna worship.

I love how you said— and I want to double down on this because I think it's such an important point, um, you just said, well, all the stuff that kids have access to, like, you're a fool if you think they don't know more than you think they know, or that they haven't been exposed. Um, I'll never forget, I heard someone talk and they said, like, if you haven't had the talk with your kids by the time they're 10— because, you know, it used to be 13, or when— by the time they're 10, and He said, then you're late, and you were— you're probably a year or two late because by the time you're thinking about it, they already were, or somebody was already thinking about it, uh, for them. Um, but my husband and I, we both married each other with a daughter. We, we each brought a girl, gave each other the gift of the girl on wedding day. So when we've sat down with the 3 children that came after, 3 boys, every time we've sat down with them and had this talk, the look on their faces when they computed So wait a minute, if that's how it works, so then how did this girl— was— how was she— I mean, you can see it happen.

Yeah, it's happening.

And then my husband and I, um, while we are 6 years apart, we think generationally different because he is of the 'they don't need to know all that,' and I'm of the 'oh no, we gonna make sure they know all of that,' you know. And so, um, just to even watch that in our, in our home. But I'm, I'm like you, I'm kind of like just tell them, because I want them to come to me and ask. I don't want them to go out there and ask anybody, ask anybody else. So if your child is 11, just get to it, get to it.

Hi.

Okay, you are, um, with the, with the children and just this messaging. I know that this came out of these conversations that you're having with your daughter, your children in general, but then with your oldest daughter and their need to understand why this relationship, mommy and daddy, why this is so important and what they need to take away from it. How was Bella's involvement? Like, what, what did it look like really? Did you write it and go over it with her? Did you? Because I just think it's so cool, like you talked about your parents just now, and I heard all the things you didn't say, that your mother's on the praise team, you love music, that your dad is the sound guy. So you, your whole musical situation not only organic to you, but also what was built on by your parents' involvement is magnified. So I think when we have our children able to engage with us in what we do, it's a gift. So I just wanted to ask a little bit more about her level of involvement, um, in the, in the process on the front and the middle, on the back.

So this whole thing started because, um, me and Natalie have made a decision that we were going to make our relationship the priority. Even when we had kids. And so it's easy to say before you have kids, but then when you start having them, it's like, oh snap, like we're going to actually have to pay somebody or have somebody be able to be with our child while we make this a priority. We're going to have to do this. So we started doing date night every Tuesday night. And I'm telling you, like clockwork, it was like my daughter had an alarm that went off on the inside of her at 6, 7 years old. She knew it was Tuesday. Don't have no watch, don't have no iPhone, don't barely do nothing. And every time we say it's date night, She started crying and throwing fits, and she didn't want to go. "Please don't go. Please don't go." And I was like, "Bella." And one day, I mean, after this happening for weeks and weeks, I said, "Let me explain it to you." And I just felt like how I use examples to explain the Word of God, that I just needed to teach my daughter how important me and mommy's marriage relationship was. And so I got a picture, took her and her little sister to the room, and I said, "This is God." And I filled the whole thing up. And I said, "And then this is me and mommy." And God pours into me and Mommy. That's why we pray and we read our word and we worship. And she's just sitting there looking intently, intently. And I could see something was clicking in her at 7 years old that me just explaining it to her in a different way wouldn't have made sense to her. And I said, and I put 3 little cups up for her brother and her sister and herself. And I said, when Mom and Daddy pour into each other, I said, then we pour into you guys. I was like, which cup are you? And I started going through and they're calling colors of cups. And she was like, I was like, "Oh, I get it." And then she said the wildest thing. She said, "Can I pour some back into Jesus?" And like picked her cup up and poured it back into the pitcher. And it was a very, like, genuine, authentic, sweet moment that we had. And I said, "Everybody should know that at 6 years old, at 4 years old." Like, the priority of relationships. Like, our first relationship should be with God. Then it should be with our spouse, and then it should go to the children and the people and all those that we love around us. And I had just finished writing Crazy Faith, and the publisher was asking me like, what do you want to do next? I was like, I know this is wild, and I know like people don't do this, but I want to write a book for kids. And they were like, really? And I was like, yeah. And they're like, great, let's do it. And so I told Bella what we were going to do. And then my daughter turned into a CEO, and I don't know what happened, but she was like, I want to approve the artwork. I want to approve the thing. And she is a boss. Like, she has told me that this book is going to outsell Relationship Goals. She's 10 now. We did it 3 years ago, but now is the time it's coming out. She said it's going to outsell Relationship Goals. She said— and it's just so beautiful to see her take ownership and to even know that the resources that are going to come in for this book, me and her mom have decided to put this away for her. Like, this is like This is, this is something that is going to be able to give her a start to pursue purpose. And so for us, like, what better way to reinforce the priority of relationships than a real life situation, but then sharing it with other people. And she's just amazed that people like know about the book, like she's freaking out, you know, because they see all these little Nickelodeon, Disney, YouTube people. And she's like, that's me, that's my book. And Oh, I messed up on one thing. I didn't put her name as the author on the book. And we got the little, uh, uh, the little copy of the proof back, and it said written by Michael Todd. That 10-year-old had a whole issue with me, and we just now back on like good terms. So excited about, um, All Boys and Girls and Families. It's convicting to parents. Like, there's been, like, moments where I've read it and I was like, mm, OK, I need to go ahead and up my game on being what we show my daughter to be. And so it's just so special and so beautiful. And I think every family, a couple of relationship goals for kids, it's going to be beautiful.

You may have the same answer to this. Before this project, before she turned into the CEO, or now, um, what is her gifting? What do y'all see in her?

Man, Bella is number one a strategist. That little girl, like, she asked me questions all the time to find out what's going to happen so that then she can strategize her plan of what she desires to happen. What are we doing tomorrow? Like, I don't know what— like, what— okay, and what time do you think that you're going to be working out? OK, and do you and mommy have any meetings later? And like— and she like goes through this whole thing and be like, OK, thanks, Daddy. And will come back in with her friend on the iPad like, hey, this is Sophia. And Dad, I know that you told me that you would be here from 3:00 to 7:00. And we wanted to know if it's OK if we have a playdate. And I see that strategy. And many generations would call that manipulation. They would say, shut up, you don't need to know the plan. But I see the gift in her. To be able to understand the landscape of a situation and then be able to see how to make what she desires to do to come in alignment with what's already happening. And so I call her a boss. I say, one day you're gonna run, run Daddy's whole schedule. I just always encourage her. I was like, Bella, your mind is so, is so astute. She understands details. When I tell you, this girl sees every detail. And so She is— the giftings that she have in her is a gift of encouragement. She also is very compassionate. And to be able to see how God is working in her and stirring up her gifts, like stirring up the things on the inside her, all I can do is encourage it, laugh at it sometimes, because I see that if it's for God's glory, it'll go one way. If it's for the devil's use, it'll go The other way, able to cultivate that and being able to see those things. I mean, my parents really did a good job at cultivating the gifts on the inside of us. Like, yeah, they saw that I was a type talker. I always got in trouble for talking. I always got in trouble for making the whole class laugh. I always got it. But there was a level of understanding to, to be able to work the discipline into me, to know when to do it. But it was never a crushing that would take me from being able to lean into that. And now it has been able to be the primary vehicle that God uses me to be able to share the word with him. And so I would just encourage every parent to see the flip of the gift your kid has. It may be annoying right now, it may be frustrating right now, it may be bothersome, it may cost you money, it may break things, but their tinkering or their attention to detail or their, um, ability to sense emotionally what's going on in the room. Like, why is Daddy mad at you? Who told you Daddy's mad at you? They have the ability to be able to sense emotionally. Those are the gifts that are unrefined that God has given to us in our children, that he has also given us stewardship responsibility to cultivate, not to crush. And that was one thing that I just really want to encourage all parents with. Don't crush the gifts even if they're unrefined. Cultivate them. Help them understand what God is doing in their life and allow them to see how powerful it would be if it's used for God's glory. So good.

Because I see— I mean, I just— when you were talking about the illustration that you were doing for the couple of the book, the kids and all that, and just the— because I see love working that way, but I also see that in this as well, that there's a pouring out that's happening, and you're stewarding the direction of that pouring. And the overflow, like Bella was saying, the overflow means she's going to be pouring back into the kingdom. It's, it's, it's always stewardship to the degree, uh, of being able to cultivate it so that there's an overflowing in someone else's life so that it pours back. I mean, you know, the world, the world is round. And I think it's amazing that you're able to know that and see But I'm just so excited that she's getting this experience with you because it'll totally shape the way she sees herself in a way that is beyond what you say, because she'll have something tangible. Like, yeah, he's always said I was smart, but look what I did. Like, look what my hands are on. So that'll be convincing and competence and confidence building for her as well. Okay, so now, you know, you You mentioned, um, you know, it takes two. So relationship is you and Natalie too. So when you're talking about prioritizing y'all's relationship, and you said, you know, all of this stuff, the book comes out of me explaining this to my children, I— but I can see my daughter crying. And you talked about you, you talked about you. Is Natalie in that same— is it black and white for her? Was she struggling to leave the house? Was there any struggle there.

The mommy guilt is real.

Mommy, yeah, that's what we're talking about.

Yeah, yeah, I think that, um, it's so beautiful that opposites attract. My wife is the most, uh, compassionate, loving, um, one of her gifts is to care. She cares more than she need to care. Like, she, she is one that feels people And it's just been so beautiful. And so that was our first child. You know, Bella always asks me, am I your favorite? I say, you're my favorite, Bella. Like, she wants to know. Like, that baby, she's just firstborn.

Everything you've said about her is textbook firstborn.

OK, help me, because I only got one. And I'm like, why are you so bent on this? But literally, Natalie, it was difficult because because she knew that she never wanted Bella to feel abandoned because, um, that's part of Natalie's root trauma is abandonment. And so we had to come to, um, a conclusion on our own, letting us be able to see the future and letting her know that if we don't do this, if we don't show her this example of us leaving and coming back, she won't know how to do this when it's time for her to leave and cleave and be in a relationship with somebody. My children know they're not first. Like, my children know that. And like, a lot of parents, like, when they say that, they be like, like, no, they gotta know. Like, their, their schedule is not first. Their soccer practice is not first. We make you a priority in our life. We, we value you. But if this relationship doesn't work, you get what we are, are pouring out. And so if we are bitter and frustrated, we can make your sandwich and, and be mad and be sharp and go off on you. All parents parents have gone off on their kids based on what the conversation was with their spouse, like, nah, take this. And it's like, oh my God, okay. And so that's a small example. But the truth of the matter is, if we value the relationships that are priority and the responsibility, then it flows to those other relationships. And so yeah, it was hard at first for her. Mommy Git was real. And then we just keep having kids. We just one after the other, after the other, after the other. And now we got We got 4 kids in our house and we ain't caught y'all yet. I don't know why you didn't— yeah, I don't know why you just didn't keep going because at this point I'm at the place in the space where it's like what has to be a priority has to be a priority. And, um, this book will help parents and children start to have conversations that give— and, and this was my heart too because we wrote it in a way that I live and pastor a lot of single parents, and, um, I wrote it in a way that would give single parents the opportunity to show their kids a picture that is something worth valuing, even if it's not their, their current reality.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and I think that's important as well. It doesn't devalue singleness. It doesn't devalue if your parents got divorced. It doesn't devalue, but it actually paints a beautiful picture of what everybody should want because it was God's design. If they want to be in relationship with. And so I think that's one of the coolest things that I have single mothers and people that we tested the book out on. And they're like, I mean, literally, we showed something from the book to one person, they just started crying because they were so moved by like, if I would have seen this picture at 5, if I would have seen this picture at 7, if my family would have read this book along with reading Chicka Chicka Boom Boom and Pete the Cat, Like, what would have happened if that story would have been integrated into my development? Right now, I know things that are worthless to my life that were introduced to me as a child. Yeah, but what if something could actually be planted in my life at a young age and have all of these decades to grow, to be able then to give to another generation? And so this is what we're calling our first legacy book. Like, I'm— to do books that reach different generations. And while God has given me the platform and given me real life experience, my next one, children's book, I'm an exclusive for you. I think we're going to do Crazy Faith for Kids. And I think that the idea of having faith and the idea of believing God and having the idea that God can do impossible things, even if your parents don't think they're possible.

Possible.

Like, I have examples in my life that God has allowed me to see things that other people who love me could not grasp until it happened. And what if we could, instead of giving our kids the, the, the seed of fear from a young age with the boogeyman and all these other things, what if we gave them the seed of faith? What if our kids were reminders to us that, hey, we can believe God for this, like, we can pray for that? So I want to do things that are valuable. And God has allowed me to release 3 books to help people that are in my age demographic, younger and older. But the next generation, the children, I feel like are the focus of my next season. Because number 1, it's helping me raise my kids. Like, I want— like, the truth of the matter is I got to talk to my kids about all this stuff anyway.. And I said, man, my kids don't just need this. Everybody's kids need this. And maybe it can be a conversation starter and something that plants the right seeds. So me and Bella, Natalie, the whole Todd Squad, we are excited to help people continue to find out more about God and themselves through little stories like A Cup of Love.

That's so great. Okay, so I asked a few people before I was going to chat with you just if they had any questions. Um, to ask. So if I can just go off script here a little bit, um, part of your testimony is that you were a music producer until God called you to full-time ministry. If you woke up tomorrow and could no longer be a pastor, what would you do now in your mid-30s as opposed to back then in your early 20s?

Don't ask me that question because there's too many ways out here to, to, to, to advance the kingdom. If I like I probably would do the same thing. I just wouldn't preach on Sunday. So like, I would probably do public speaking. I probably would be in the studio a lot more. I probably would still doing things to influence. I just want to impact, like, like, and people don't understand this. But that's why I love that God wires people differently and puts certain things in them. And, and you got to sell out to that thing. I was trying to impact people, like, when I was working, didn't have no money, and like, you know, like, it's always been my desire to help people get to their next. And so, um, I would be doing the same thing. I just wouldn't get, uh, so many comments on it because I have the title of pastor. There wouldn't be as many haters. They would give me, uh, the—

listen, isn't that sad? It's like if I didn't have the pastor title, you wouldn't have a problem with me.

Me.

As a believer, you wouldn't have a problem with me.

You wouldn't even care. As a believer, you would consume it. Like, it— but because I'm— I have the title pastor, which shows us so many times, um, the state of the spiritual maturity of a lot of people. And, um, it's one of those things that we have to navigate and we have to love people through. And it just makes me more like Jesus. But I'd be doing the same thing, it just would be, uh, less criticized.

That's Okay, top 5 music artists. Top 5— well, this said top 5 gospel artists. I'm saying top 5 musical artists.

So let's go everywhere. Come on, let's go everywhere.

Yeah, like, come on, y'all.

I can't do them in order right now because this—

I will have to spew them out. This is just in order that they come to mind.

Now, are we talking like singers?

Are we talking whatever comes to mind?

It's like, ah, that is a lot for me. All right, well, then you have to go, you have to go Michael Jackson. And you have to go Michael Jackson number one, like, if you got to put an order on it, is Michael Jackson number one. I don't care what nobody say. He has changed to this day, the landscape of music everywhere. And so Michael Jackson, I'm gonna put Whitney Houston in there. I'm going to put Phil Collins in there. Um, uh, see, the Black—

somebody just was like, who's Phil Collins?

No. Oh my gosh. I'm gonna put Phil Collins in there. I'm going to put, uh, uh, cousin Kirk Franklin in there. That's my dog. And he's changed the landscape. And I gotta give one more gospel artist. I'm okay. I'm gonna do this one for my 17-year-old self that was a musician.

Okay.

Kimbrel is—

listen, Cold stupid.

Like the music, when I heard Everlasting Life and Doobie Pow and, and all— I mean, it was the Ward Brothers.

I—

it messed me up for a long time. And then you got to go Ty Tribbett, and then you got to go Drake, and then you got to go— like, see, my stuff is too eclectic because there's reasons why.

There are reasons, but that's because you're musical, because you can appreciate the song, but you can also appreciate that bass line. You, you'll hear the whole thing, but it's really that bass line that's making it. It's like, who's that drummer?

Like, yeah, I'm gonna say something that a lot of people may have a different takeout on Christian music, but though the lyrics in a lot of secular music are glorifying the wrong thing, the creativity is so much better. And see, nobody wants to actually acknowledge—

that's like Christian movies.

Oh, don't get me started. Don't get me started. It's like, I don't just appreciate any of the lyrics. It's not the lyrics, but I appreciate how you put that together. Like, you took that word and rhymed it with that emotion and brought me into this. I was like, that is, that is art. Like, that is artwork. And of course, I'm not telling everybody to go and listen to stuff that defiles you and makes you all this and all this stuff, but there are some things that, like, when I walk past a nice car, I don't ask, is that a Christian car? Like, I look at the artwork, the design, like, that's beautiful. And I can appreciate that in all types of music. And so, yeah, that's a hard question.

Yeah. Well, it's because it's duplicitous. A car, nobody expects to buy or make a car at church. But music is a big part of church. So when we see it outside of church, we're trying to, you know, we're trying to align it with what we think music should be. And we forget that, like you said, it's not just— in fact, well, that's a whole nother conversation.

Yeah, you have to dive into another podcast.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, this is random.

Let's go.

But I noticed his skin looks really smooth and clear. I've noticed that men in his generation, in this generation, are more open to taking better care of their bodies and their skin. Does he have a skincare regimen?

You are gonna flip out. Out when I say this, and my wife hates me because of this. All I do is wash my face in the shower with the same soap I wash my body with. My wife is so mad. Like, she got a whole spread of Skim, Kim Kardashian stuff, stuff from Asia, stuff drops, tea leaves, all kind of stuff. And she's like, you're And so I want to thank Tommy Todd and Brenda Todd and the natural juices and berries that they gave me as a child. Thank you.

Love it, love it. Couple more, couple more. Um, your sermon prep process. Yeah, how you get ready for the boats and the waters and the all of that. How do we, how do we get ready for not just the word but the presentation and the effectiveness of the receipt?

So the truth of the matter is most of it comes to me last Like, I am not even playing with no— like, people don't believe this. People think I'd be like taking weeks and months to plan this stuff. Like, Wednesday is, um, when I have a sermon prep day. I pray and sermon prep all day, and usually I come out of Wednesday with like scriptures, idea, like some points, and hopefully I'll have like maybe somewhere I'm going. Like Thursday, I'm thinking about it all day and writing random stuff in my iPhone. Friday, I try to turn my brain off and not think about it. And then Saturday around 4 o'clock, no matter what I'm doing, my mind, like, it's like a factory. It like, I could be asleep and it just starts up and it's like, "Rrrr." And it's like, it just starts preparing and becoming very sober that people are going to get out of their house tomorrow and come here what you've been praying about and what you think God said to you, and are you interpreting it right? And is this like— and then I get to like Saturday night, Sunday morning, and I'm like, how is the person who doesn't care about God gonna get this?

Right. Why should they care? That's the question.

Like, and so for me, I mean, when I look at— it's so funny when I hear people talk about, you just need to preach the word of God. Jesus used examples. Like, Like when he was preaching, he would look around and he would say like, "Oh, I'm going to use this example. I'm going to tell a parable, a truth that is mixed with a story so that you can get this." And so that has just been something that God's always given me is like regular stuff that can help get the point home.

But that works for Sunday, but you don't do that You can't do that for your series because your series are very well thought out and very well creatively surrounded and supported, like the graphics, the staging. So how— if that's the week-to-week sermon process, what is the process where you go, we're gonna spend these next few weeks talking about cuffing season, or, you know, all the different things that you've come up with?

So honestly, um, I usually go away and to spend a week with God in July when I take my sabbatical. And I just pray, I fast, I work out, I write. And then I ask God, like, what are the things— what is the, like, direction you want us to go this next year? And so I just start writing down a bunch of ideas that I feel, things that have resonated with me, and all that other stuff. But honestly, it'll be like January, for the year, like I got the next 6 months like sketched out. And when I say sketched out is in pencil because I'm not like, I'm not like I know exactly what I'm going to preach. It's like I know the direction I'm going and I let God kind of form it as we go. And then there's sometimes like, I know when I did the boat example and we had water all on the stage, I was like, hey, tell me what week we could have of like water on the stage and a boat because I got a message. So it was more like, I got an idea, y'all go figure that out, and whenever y'all get that figured out, give me 2 weeks notice and we gonna— I'ma preach. And so it's that type of thing. And it's really being surrounded by creative people and people that understand the value of bringing excellence to the church. Not that we reach everybody, but reach some. There are some people that watch what we're doing because they know I'm gonna do an example. And they don't know what else. And during that whole process, their soul is getting like completely saturated with the love of God, the word of God, conviction. And yes, it might have been an example that drew you in, but it's the love of God, the understanding of his word, and the revelation that comes that transforms you. And that's why I tell people all the time, man, I, I believe the thing that's changed me is hearing God's word. The Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing the word. A lot of people are hearing everything else and they're not hearing God's word. And in this day and age, I don't think everybody should do it. There are people that just sit at a table and they literally can break open God's word and it's just revelation. I watch those guys. I love that stuff. But my gifting, I can't deny. And I think a lot of people are denying their gifting for the opinion of other people. Like, I never actually tried to become a pastor. I never wanted to be a pastor. I didn't go to seminary. I didn't have it. Like, this was not my plan. This was a Saul to Paul conversion where God like, uh-uh, you gonna do this. And I cannot deny the gifts he gave me. I thought they would work better to go get people out of the world in being in it and then kind of bringing over here and writing checks for conferences. That's what I thought, right? Right. I want you as a leader in my kingdom, but I don't want you to deny what I put in you. And I would just encourage people right now, man, there are a lot of people that have comments and critiques about what God has called you to do, but they didn't call you to do it. And if you don't actually obey what God called you to do, God will call you wicked. We find that the story of the talents where he gave one to one, two to another, he gave five to another. And the one who was scared of actually doing something with it, they buried it. And you may be burying the gift that is not common, the gift that is not what all Black people do, not what all white people do, not what people think is acceptable. But if you bury that, then when God comes back to ask, what did you do with that speaking gift? What did you do with that drawing gift? What did you do with that gift? And you said, well, I didn't want nobody to take you wrong. I didn't want nobody to think, you know, I know that you want us to act a certain way. And God said, you could have at least doubled that. Like, you're wicked. And I never want to be found wicked in the place where God said you're gifted. And too many people are finding wicked where it should be gifted. And that's where in my life I was like, nah, I'm going to use everything that God gave me. The late Miles Monroe said, die empty. And I'm going to— everything. So I got music coming out. I wrote a love song album for my wife. I have, I have children's books. I'm going to use everything God gave me. And at the end of my life, I hope it gives somebody permission to be everything God called you to be.

Well, you answered my last question. I said, I was thinking, what are you gonna— what, what, as God pours into you, are you expecting to continue to pour out to others? Obviously your family, obviously your children, and you just answered that question. So I'll close with this last one. Is there anything that you want to pour out, not that you doubt God and not that you doubt yourself, but you wonder if it's for you to do?

Now you got me contemplating for real. Um, yeah, there's several things. This is going to sound weird, but like any, anytime I see anything, I feel like I can do it. And anytime I see anything excellent and it's impacting people, I feel like I can do it for the kingdom of God. And so one of the things that is my greatest tension is knowing what I am graced to do for the season.

Yeah.

Because, because I can figure out how to do a podcast, but I don't have one. Because if I had one, it'd have to be the best podcast. Like, and I— not that it would be the best podcast, but in— in— I would do everything I could to make it what it needed to be. Um, I feel like I could design cars. Like, I— like, that's something that, like, I want a—

a—

a clothing brand that is not church merch, that is on par with everything that is in the world— shoes, the whole nine. And I know, like, in me, sis, like, I know that God has given me the tenacity and the endurance to go through whatever that process is. And the shoes would be fire. Like, I could get NBA players wearing them. Like, I know that. But everything that I feel that I can do, I know that I'm not supposed to do. And this is why Proverbs 3:5 says, acknowledge God in all your ways, and then he will direct your path. Another scripture says, many of the plans of a man, but it's God's purpose that will prevail. Like, and so for me, that is a constant tension all the time in me that I know everybody does not have. But I've seen God literally take me from nothing but a piece of paper where he said he was going to do something. And I now drive up to that building every night, every day, and it was paid off in 5 months. That stuff starts to make your faith like, I'm like, with me and God, like, who? Who can be against us? And so as long as your heart is pure and you obey instructions and learn the timing of God, I think there's a lot of things that I'm going to do that I don't even know that I'm going to do right now because I didn't know I was going to be doing this. And I think that's the beautiful thing about God, that his plans for us are better than our plans for us. And his ways are so much higher than our ways. He thinks of us so much higher than we think of ourselves. All we have to do is make sure we have the right heart posture and actually allow him to pour in so that we can pour out.

Well, and we start today by celebrating Pastor Michael Todd, author of a children's book, A Couple of Love. Because I don't know that that was on the list, but it is on the piece.

This is brand new news, breaking news.

So amazing. This was so great to get to talk to you. Glad I got to meet you, but even better to spend an hour with you. Thank you for sharing with us and, um, just being you— honest, open, telling the truth.

Hey, we could do this all the time. Maybe I— maybe we need to start something up. This is— this is— it almost feel like a TV show.

This is great. This is great.

Thanks for joining. Thank you so much.