S 2 Episode 3: Building Healthy Friendships

Welcome to the Sister Circle, where we have a circle of sisters to chat about this concept of the Sister Circle and friendship. How you can really have a circle of friends, not just for a minute, not just for a week, but for a long time. It's been 10 years, right?

Over 10 years.

And so I watch this group of girls get together. I see them on Instagram. I see them celebrate. Celebrating and having fun and going on trips and doing all the things. And I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna invite them to talk about what it has meant for them to honor their sister circle. If you don't know what a sister circle is, it's simply in whatever sphere of life you live in— work, home, your neighborhood, your job— the women that you run with, just women that you see that you want to make intentional, an intentional effort to get with and to go deeper, not to just be on the surface, but to say you have permission to be in my life, to speak into my life, for us to hold each other up and hold each other accountable. And I think you all have done that. So what we're going to start with is just letting them introduce themselves so that you kind of know who we're talking to before we jump into our conversation.

So we'll start with you. I'm Sheila Stoutmire.

I am Joy Hill.

I am Celia Drummond.

Sarah Matson Miller.

Millicent Finney. Tammy Franklin.

Cherise Brown. We're missing a couple.

We're missing a girl.

Okay. Who are we missing?

We're missing Pat Smith.

Okay.

We are missing Donna Richardson. We're missing Milani Ishmael.

Okay.

So then this group is 10 strong.

It's 10 strong, y'all.

10 strong. Okay. So first of all, how did y'all even decide? Oh, and Priscilla, you're in my sister circle.

I'm in your sister circle.

Like literally.

We're not going to feel left out today. We have each other. After they leave, we'll drink some coffee.

That's right. I'm staying.

I have multiple sisters. But you can't actually.

But honestly, a beautiful thing about their circle is that it's so not exclusive that they're intentional about about each other. But I'm also friends with all these women. You're also friends with these women. So there's something beautiful about cultivating this that actually makes their, their reach and their other friendships richer and more beautiful and connected to other people.

So yeah, absolutely. And I want you to know we didn't get the pink memo. What should we wear? I said cute and casual, and then Tammy said we're gonna do pink.

We're doing pink because Madison said we're gonna do it. I know, pink pants.

I want to know, um, how did you guys even start to have this friendship?

Because some of you have been friends longer than that.

Yeah.

You've known each other, but how did you guys start to have this?

Well, some of us were friends already, but this started with Joy.

Yeah, I was, I was watching, um, Joni Lamb on Daystar one day, and she had on a guest, Pamela Hines, out of, um, where is she from?

Milwaukee.

Milwaukee.

Milwaukee.

And she did something at her church, um, where some women got together to pray. And I'm laying there I was like, man, that'd be so cool if I could be a part of something like that. And clear as day, I heard the Holy Spirit say, why don't you do it? I'm like, how am I going to do it? I don't really— He's like, just start it. And so Pat, I think I reached out to Pat first.

Tammy and I were praying.

We were like, we had become organic prayer partners.

On Mondays.

On Mondays, yeah. Every Monday we would pray.

And it was just the two of you.

Just the two of us, yeah.

And then the Lord had spoken that whole thing to kind of broaden it. And I talked to Tammy about it. And then I reached out to Pat because she and I went to the same church. And it was like each one reach one, and before we knew it, we had this group of women. And what we had in common is that we were all married at the time.

And here we are. That's good.

That's good.

You want us to be real. I mean, yes.

I never changed since then. We could probably get into that later. But at any rate, we were all married, and all of our husbands were at some level really building up their careers, and they were gone traveling or whatever a lot, and we just had that in common. We wanted to pray for our spouses. That was the focus. The focus was for us to pray for our husbands. And so once a month, we would go from house to house, and we would pray for each other. And I had strict rules.

We couldn't eat.

We couldn't have no fellowship.

And like, what you feeling? Got going on?

We don't want anything.

We got nothing.

And tissue.

And you could play.

Which I think is great, because I think the reason why a lot of women don't start is because they think that they have to be a hostess, or their house has to be gorgeous, or they have to be able to cook. And so they just won't do it because they think, oh, well, all this stuff has to go along with it. But you're saying y'all just showed up, drank some water.

Yeah.

It happened one time and I had to shut it down.

You wanted to be intentional about the purpose of meeting.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that's so cool that the friendship started around one purpose that suited everybody in the group. So like if there's others— At the time. At the time. So that if there's mothers with toddlers and what y'all need to do is get 5 of y'all together so your kids can play and y'all can have some adult conversation for once in the month. That common ground is enough to start what could be a friendship that morphs over time.

I know a group of women who are single, who their whole thing is, my married friends can't get up and go when I can, so I want to travel. Y'all want to travel? That's been their whole thing. They plan a trip every year to do that together.

And even when we come together, you don't have to be like made up or anything. Sometimes we come in sweats. Typically we're going to cry anyway.

So, you know, it's no makeup.

No makeup.

You know, or you bring your makeup with you because you got a meeting afterwards, but we just— come as you are.

So when you decide to start a group, even if it's around prayer, there's still that barrier though of transparency that you have to work on. So you knew each other, but you're inviting other people, and transparency has to grow over time. Authenticity, your willingness each person individually to share, either in just chatting or through prayer, what I really need to pray about, how I really need you to pray for me. Was that difficult at all? Was that something that maybe some of you had to work at or work through a little bit longer than others? Because I'm assuming, maybe I'm wrong, that y'all didn't start out with everybody just telling all this stuff.

No, no, I think we evolved, right?

You know, there was a, like she said, it was really really focused on prayer, and then the transparency came out of— was birthed out of that. So as we continued to get together, our trust grew. We have not had anybody to violate that trust.

Not once.

Not once. In over 10 years. And that's key, because you can't create the transparency without the trust. And we've been able to build that, and it's been very safe.

That's so great.

It's been— We've been able to feed off of each other because I know God doesn't take you through things without being able to share that testimony with someone else. And we found in situations that when we're sharing, we're like, oh my gosh, I'm going through the same thing. Me too. And it just—

the floodgates just open because we're all, oh my gosh, I thought it was just me. Y'all cry a lot.

Y'all have talked about crying. Oh, we cry.

We cry a lot.

Yeah.

Like, if we make it through this without crying, we'll be good.

I think one of the reasons why we were able get to transparency so quickly, honestly, um, because it didn't take a long, long time to get there, is because of the rules that were set. It's 1 hour, we're coming in, we're praying, come as you are, we're not eating, we're not fellowshipping, we're just coming to strictly pray. Come in, let's get in it. And it's not— we followed Pamela Hines' book.

Yeah, we did.

Yeah, we did.

Yeah, we read her book and then we would pray and everybody If they had something to submit to the Lord, they would submit it. And we would take turns praying for one another. And it was just because it was so real. And we have 1 hour. Let's make it an intentional hour. I think that's how we got to trust so quickly and trusting one another so quickly.

Somebody heard you say that, and they want to know what's the name of the book. What's the name of that book, Pamela Hines' book?

Do you know?

Oh, gosh.

We all remember it. The Praying Wife.

The Praying Wife.

And honestly, Her book has prayers throughout, and it's specifically for different things. And I think people starting out may be fresh, and they're just kind of nervous. We kind of went through based on the book at first, and then it just, like Millicent said, it just organically— we don't use a book anymore.

We just—

we come and we—

you still get together just for prayer?

Yes.

Once a month?

Yes.

Okay. We take summers off.

You take the summers off, but you get together once a month for prayer?

Yes.

But now you do lots of other things together?

Right.

So what are some of the other ways that you intentionally do that?

Well, we always did.

We always did.

You always did?

We were all kind— we were friends. I mean, Sarah and I became closer friends through prayer, but Celia and I have been friends for years. Joy and I have been friends for years.

I introduced Joy to Pat and I were friends.

Yeah.

So, um, she had looked through the prayer groups.

I'm like, great.

Who brought you to the prayer group?

You did.

I did? Yeah.

Chrystal Hurst's birthday party, rollerskate park.

You were like, who is this?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But we already knew each other from church.

From church.

Yeah. Okay. And you know, we didn't—

you were no less.

We didn't start—

I met you at my first prayer at, uh, when it was at Yeah, that was my first time meeting you, but I knew everyone else. But that said, it brought us all closer together. But even though that was our first time meeting, it was like, bam, like, okay, now we're sisters in Christ.

Yeah.

You know?

And I think too, God has— he'll organically just shape it to what it's supposed to be. Because we did have some other people, and it just organically became the 10 of us. And so, you know, and that's okay too. Yeah.

Right.

And we didn't have to even tell them, like, yeah, you're not going to fit.

You know, that's not what we thought.

Asking way too many questions.

Right. You want to take a tour?

Yeah.

That's not breaking the rules.

But you know what, Joy, you say something very— because we have had people who want to be a part of the group.

That's true.

Yeah.

And we've had to deal with that because I believe once you create that trust, it's hard to bring somebody in from feeling like you all are a clique. I think we passed it. Because that's not your intention. You guys are all very friendly people, but you're saying we have this, we have this group, the 10 of us, and we've got something going. And it's not that— again, I want to clarify to make sure people know that for those of us that know you, it's very clear that y'all are intentional about the things you do together, but you also have very broad friendships that extend to many other people. And yeah, you know, You hang out with other people, but at the same time, when folks say, I want to be a part of this in terms of the monthly prayer, that's it.

Can I pray with y'all? Can y'all pray for me?

Yeah, we do. We pray for you.

How do you sort of—

And you know what we started doing, though? We encouraged them to create their own groups versus saying, you can't join this one, but create your own circle. We're willing to help you. We gave out information. Here's what we use. News.

Yeah, so you can tell people's intentions, you know, and I think we've just been so discerning, careful to protect what we have, to have some little protection because we go really deep.

We do.

This is our safe place.

Yeah, I tell you, and because of who we are, who we're married to, and things like that—

who we're married to—

anyway, um, so, um, we have to protect that.

You have to protect that.

Some people have wrong All of us wanted them to be a part of the prayer group.

I want to go to Sharice's house.

I want to go to Tamra Franklin's house.

Right.

Yeah.

But I think too, to lovingly— I know I've had to lovingly say, you know, we have built a trust together.

Right.

And there's, you know, when we have trust like that, then you have to protect that. And we're not, you know, we're not trying to, you know, say that we're this clique and we're going to exclude you, but there's a trust we've built here.

Right.

And, you know, and some people I think if their intentions were pure, they get that. And if they weren't, then they may be like, "Oh, okay." I've had people come to me and say the same thing.

"Yeah, that's cliquish and you guys don't let people in." And it's hard because I defend, and I don't even come back and share it with them. I just kind of tell them that it's definitely not what it is. I think we all have probably had this. Oh my gosh. Actual conversations. Not lately. I think it was—

we passed that.

We passed that.

People just kind of understand and they haven't come to me with that. But I did have a friend that was like, yeah, I've heard all y'all do is sit up and talk about each other or talk about people. I said, well, that is not true. I said, that has never happened. Not one time. I said, we come together, we pray about our husbands, we pray for our children, we pray for each other's family members. I said, there's never been a time that I've had a conversation with them.

We got enough of our own stuff.

You know, so that kind of hurt me because it was almost like I had to be—

because they're questioning your integrity as a person.

Because they're questioning my integrity as a person. And I actually had to separate myself from a couple of people for that reason. Because don't— please don't lie on us. Just don't do that. That hurt me to my core.

The interesting thing about it, like to your point, Chrystal Hurst, we might not—

we get together like once a month to pray or for birthdays.

Days, and then we might not see each other until the very next month. Yeah, next time we get together and pray, because we all have lives, very busy lives, very, very busy lives, and we're coming and going. We all have other groups of friends that we, you know, involve in our lives or involved in certain ways, but it's just the organic group of this people, these 5 or 10 people that the Lord has put together, and we're not all alike. We're all We're all definitely different. It's just that God put us together to pray.

Yeah.

And I was going to say, the core of this group of women is prayer.

Now, I wanted to ask, so when you get together for birthdays, that's in addition to the prayer?

Yes.

In addition to the prayer.

They go to Grand Left Cafe.

And they post their pictures.

They're all lined up.

They all order the same food. We order the same food. Same food.

And they take a picture for all the restaurants.

And we request the same waitress.

The same waitress.

She knows our order.

So let me ask you this. So you're getting together to pray.

That is the core of the circle of friends.

You get together to celebrate each other for birthdays. And so, like, dumb question, but inquiring minds want to know. Is there— like, do you have to give each other gifts every birthday?

Like, is there—

Yes. It's giving.

Yes. So y'all are all gift givers.

Yes.

You're celebrating whoever's birthdays are that month.

Yes.

Yes. Usually.

Well, there's only one.

We have two sets that appear.

Yeah.

Pat and I are December.

And then Georgia and me and Melanie are January.

And then Donna and I are only a few days apart.

So.

Yeah.

And we're the summer babies. For the one person or the two people who celebrate that month. So I'm coming back.

In December, I'm just going to show up. It's my birthday! We're gonna call Grand Lux and be like, "Really?

What day is the party?" I have a friend of mine that said, it was a couple years ago, she said, "Let's make a pact this year. I got you for your birthday and you got me because," she said, "my husband may forget, my kids may forget, but I just need somebody to remember my birthday." Well, let me tell you what's so funny about us because like for me, my birthday was last week.

Yay! Thank you.

But I told them, I'm like, it doesn't matter what my family does because I had my time with my girls.

Yeah.

And so I'm good.

Like, I'm refreshing.

Like, you know, especially because we haven't seen each other. Like, summers are really, really hectic and we're always gone. I miss Sheila's and Millicent's most of the time, primarily because Sheila's birthday is the summer baby.

Yeah.

So I'm always gone. And then, um, Millicent, I hit around Hall of Fame, and you know, there's certain key things that are happening, and I miss theirs.

Can I, can I say something real quick? It's transparent about the whole birthday thing. So I don't think I ever told anybody except for Sharice's, but now I'm telling you girls.

Yeah, that's what we're after.

Yeah, right.

So I just moved to Dallas a year ago, and I remember the very first birthday lunch that we were going to have when I came back. I called you. Was it me?

It was me. They should have called all of us.

I was feeling some kind of way. My whole situation had changed. My finances had changed, and I felt like I couldn't afford to buy a gift like that.

She assumed we all were buying these expensive gifts.

Yes. And so, you know, and I didn't want to come empty-handed, you know. And so I got rebuked by my friends who love me and said, we're not here, you know, we don't need to come just for your gift. We love you, and we just want your presence. Your presence is a present. That's right. And so that changed, that changed the whole scheme of things. So now go to CVS and get y'all a gift.

No, I'm kidding.

That's so great that you say that because that's really where the question is coming from, that people who either gift giving is not their love language or they do feel financial pressure.

Okay, if I'm in a group, then that means I got to always— so I'm curious, even though you were freed up, uh, by your friends say, no, your presence is a present. Was that completely freeing just to hear that?

It absolutely was. I was feeling some kind of way.

Yeah, I was.

We talked about it again.

Yeah, I came late to the lunch because I wasn't planning on coming.

I think one time, like, she was still at the house and I was like, Jerejima, come on. It's not even about that. It's about, you know, getting together is what's important.

Definitely.

She was assuming that everybody was possibly spending a lot of money. And I'm like, girl, no, I'm going to Sam Moon sometimes.

Bargain shop.

Bargain shop.

No.

That's awesome.

But that's another point is that we have been there and love each other through different seasons because sometimes we can give and sometimes we can't. Sometimes we can be there all the time and sometimes we can't.

We gotta give each other just grace. You have to give grace. Okay, here's what I want to know. I want a specific Give me a quick example of a time when there was conflict in the group, whether it was between 3 of you or 2, just 2 of you, and everybody had to sort of work through some area of this right here. We're not going to let this act like this is not happening. Just some area of conflict.

You see all the little whispers that just happened?

They're like, look, can we talk about that?

Are we in agreement?

Honestly, we don't have much, but when we do, I think that we have formed such a relationship that we can go talk about it. You know, people have gotten hurt.

Seriously, now? Seriously, now? They heard what I was going to say.

Well, I think the important part— people's feelings have gotten hurt in the group. We all know that people's feelings have gotten hurt, and those people have brought it to to the table.

They have.

Have you found that those hurt feelings have been centered around feeling left out?

Support.

Comparatively.

Support. Not feeling supported.

Okay.

Not feeling supported.

Because honestly, I'll just say it, I had a challenge for a while when we weren't being consistent in prayer. And it was really— I struggled with it because everybody was just in different seasons of their life and people were going. Just couldn't commit to the time, and it grieved my spirit because I was like, I need this. This is like air to me. If I'm going to make the time, why aren't you all making the time?

So we had to have a meeting. We had to have a meeting.

We sure did.

We had a business meeting. We had to have a business meeting.

I was on FaceTime.

That's right.

That's right.

That's right.

That's right.

Oh yeah. I feel like Mama Baby.

Now look, she's over.

Yeah, it was like 3 hours.

Yeah, it was like 3 hours.

She was like, y'all don't miss a birthday. Yeah.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Y'all eating that cake.

Yeah. And that's my cake. The lemon pie cake. Lemon. Lemon. Look, lemon.

But you know, I think we got to hear from Sheila though, because Sheila's kind of quiet over there, but I feel like you got a whole lot to say, Sheila.

What do you think about that meeting that day?

I like the meeting because I know—

I felt like some of us were kind of like, you know, are we going to do this or not?

If we're not going to do it— and then remember I said—

she lives in Oklahoma.

If you come once a month at least from Oklahoma to pray, and then again, she's watching her conscience properly, not literally.

I mean, it's still Oklahoma.

Yeah, I'm farthest north, but I said if we're not going to do prayer, we're not going to do the birthdays. I mean, because if we're going to get together and celebrate each other, we still need to be praying with each other. Yeah, not just, you know, by text, can you pray this? No, we need to get together and go in. Yeah. And just like how we have a great time celebrating, that's how I felt. And so, and Joy was like, you know, that's right. So at that time when we had our business meeting, we decided, no, we're going in.

We're going to keep doing what God has taught us to do.

Joy's vision, you know, this is her circle getting bringing us together, and we had a really good thing going on. And I just felt like, you know, I need them. I mean, this is an organic thing. It's sacred, like we talked about. Everyone's transparent.

And I don't—

I have another group, good group of friends, but there's nothing like what we have. And if it was going to end then, I mean, I would have felt lost.

Like, these are my girls.

But we all, we all had to see too. And I think Sarah and I probably were the most sensitive at that time. And But it helped me to understand that, like in any Christian walk, sometimes you're on and sometimes you're not. And that's, you know, that's what was happening, you know, with us. And I had to really show a place of grace because, you know, it wasn't like I was just mad, but I was like, my feelings were hurt.

You were hurt because y'all weren't meeting, or you were hurt because other people were like, what's the deal?

Not prioritizing. Not prioritizing. You know what's so interesting about this? And, and Chrystal Hurst, I know you need to move on to the next thing, but what's so interesting is as you're talking, I'm sitting here thinking about how, you know, it sounds so— sometimes what you're describing, business meeting, coming together trying to figure this out once a month, whatever, the intentionality of it can sound so structured that it almost feels like the organic nature of friendship is taken out of it at times. But, but listen to what I'm thinking. Sometimes in marriage, it's like when you get married It's all the butterflies, it's just blah, blah, blah. And then you come to a point sometimes where actually you just have to be intentional about it. You know what? On Monday night is the date night, or this night is the night we're getting the kids out of the house and we're going to turn some romantic music on because we're doing the thing tonight. And it starts to sound a little surgical.

You've got to be intentional. I'm serious.

I'm just looking at y'all's friendship and I'm like, if you're going to be intentional about friendship as life life gets busier and you have children and you're traveling and all that, then you prioritize. You're gonna have to go through seasons when you're like, actually, we're doing it like this to make this thing keep flourishing.

That's right.

And go the distance.

Yeah, that's right.

Over the long haul of life.

So, so, you know, and I know you asked the question about conflict and we, we went into the importance of priority, but I want to know what you would say to the woman or the girl who's watching and saying, but see, I just can't— and I'm sure you've heard it— I can't I can't do women. Women, there's just too much conflict. I've tried. Do you feel that what we're discussing, which is the commitment and the communication, is what makes the difference? I mean, have you all always been good with women? Have you ever had a challenge in friendships? Is this really that different? What makes it different? I mean, we talked about prayer, but a lot of women say that. They're just like, I can't, I tried, and it's just drama.

Wow.

I think if you have God as your center, I'm not trying to be funny, truly, truly living to serve the Lord.

You don't get that.

I mean, you choose not to get that. I mean, whether it's the Holy Spirit that guides your tongue or guards your heart, whatever it is, I honestly think that has a lot to do with it because I came from California. I had no friends. It was just my husband's family. And I am so blessed to have this group of ladies in my life because when I tell you, you come from somewhere where you know no one and you have no one to talk to, to share those things with that you're going through. The one thing that we would have in common is that some people can't relate to your lifestyle like Tammy may be able to relate to, or Sheila, because she knows the ins and outs, the ups and downs of being an NFL wife. You know, those are things that are important. I can call Sheila and say, girl, X, Y, and Z is going on, what you think? Or, you know, pray with me this or pray for me. Where someone else, I'd say that to someone, they'd be like, girl, what you gotta complain about? You know, not knowing the, you know, there's more. I can't be transparent with everyone. That's why it's such a blessing to have these ladies, because I know I can say I'm going through this and I need you for this, and they're there.

And they're willing to pray, but they also get it.

But they also get it.

And I've also seen y'all run to each other's support each other. What I mean is emotionally, when your sister died, you know what I mean? Or all that you've been through, Joy, and, you know, the things that you've been through in the past year. Just, I've watched y'all just get around each other and go, you know, whether it's financial support, whether it's bringing meals over, whether it's being there so you can literally lay your head on my shoulder and cry. I've watched y'all do that, and that's been a beautiful, beautiful thing to know you're going to have that when it's your turn, because we all have a turn to go through stuff, to know you have that.

I think too what kind of feeds cattiness within women is fear, and I don't know how.

That's great.

There's no fear in this group, and I think that's what we feel.

That is so deep!

That is so deep! Preach!

I'm most fully—

Oh no!

But I think that when we all came together, because we didn't know each other, you know, I just think you didn't feel that fear. I think I was one of the last people to join the group, and I don't know how y'all got me. You probably wish I didn't spill my guts to y'all every month, but I don't know what it is. Yeah, there's just no fear in this group. It's our safe place.

We say it all the time.

It's our safe place.

And it's our doctor's appointment every month.

What about comparison?

What do you mean?

With each other? Is it a situation?

Comparison?

Because I'm just thinking through the— what some women will say are the barriers for them.

Yeah.

Catty stuff, and I understand that. Not trying to over-spiritualize it, but saying, you know what, not only are we here for prayer, but we're here really just as a part of our spiritual life. Like we're gathering in a spiritual community, and that's more important than the cattiness.

Comparison is another reason that women will say, I just, you know, do you have to guard yourselves personally against looking at one of the other members in the group that might be doing something or having something or experiencing something that honestly you would really love but you're not?

Yeah, you're not.

Maybe whether it's a financial security that that particular member has or whatever. I don't know, is there any— you have to guard against any sort of—

it's got to be God because Yes, and we've all been through stuff. Yeah. And I mean, me personally, we've been through a lot financially in the last probably 5 years, and I don't know how. It just doesn't even make sense, and it probably sounds like I'm not even telling the truth, but you are the most holy one.

That's what you said.

Yes, I did say I was the most holy. I am the most holy.

So, but how the Lord wouldn't allow my heart to be like, oh, you know, you get to do this or get to have that.

I don't know.

It just doesn't happen, at least not for me. It hasn't happened for me.

It hasn't happened for me.

We've been through a lot.

Like, I love each and every one of these women like they were my blood.

Mm-hmm.

Come on, Taryn.

Tissue.

So I can't even imagine what life would be like without them in my life, like for real. So I had a major transition in my life, and I had a choice where to move. I was leaving Denver., and I was either going to choose Dallas, Atlanta, or Boston, and it was like quickly, Dallas, because honestly, this is where my circle of love is. Not to say I don't have my love in Atlanta, my love in Boston, but I knew, and they, like Chrystal said, they hovered over me like mother hens and made sure that I was okay. I mean, from getting me money to pay my attorney to making sure I had furniture in the house, to unpacking, to making sure Jonathan and I were okay. And, you know, Chrystal Hurst was a part of that circle, my transition this year too, just making sure that I was covered, you know, and because it was a huge transition. But because of this circle right here, I was like, I'm okay, I'm gonna be just fine, like for real. And, um, Besides that little hiccup I had with that pride, like, "Well, I can't afford to live with them." Other than that, I knew that things were going to be okay because I could call any one of these girls, any one of them at any time, and they were all there for me.

That's so great. You know, just a reminder of the scripture that says, "There is no fear in love." Yes.

And I think we all have chosen— to me, it's a choice. We all have chosen love over fear. Or fear or comparison or anything like that. You know, not that we don't go through things individually. I mean, this is going to sound really trivial, but I'm short. And so— I mean that metaphorically.

I'm short. I'm like, "She's short." But I mean, you know, the enemy does stupid stuff like that.

I mean, they're all tall and gorgeous. I went through a moment of, you know, I always had to wear heels.— I mean, I know I'm cute and everything. I'd make sure I had on heels, but I mean, that's something internally with Tammy, you know, but I mean, it's absolutely trivial. Girl, now I'll come if I want to in some flip-flops and be totally fine.

And I don't think that's trivial. I think that's a very real woman thing that when we're around other women, we automatically recognize something about their stature that's not what we have.

Yeah, I'm the fluffy one of the crew.

I was gonna say, I'm fluffy.

Yeah, please.

And no, I'm fluffy too.

I'm fluffier.

Yeah.

And but you know what, these women, they're always flooding with compliments and I don't think it's because your legs are all the way.

We always encourage each other, whether it's our hair to our lashes to our legs or whatever, you know, and we always just lift each other up and make each other feel so good.

Like when I leave these women, I feel like I'm the prettiest girl in the world.

Yeah, I do.

I love that.

I think racially too, to be honest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, girl, that's not Black people. You're not Black? What? What?

That is the furthest thing from our mind.

I think you're Black.

I know, but at the beginning I was like, where do you fit in? Yeah, where will I fit in?

Yeah.

And you fit right in.

Wow.

And that is so funny, Celia, because I don't think—

I've not even looked at you as Black.

Not even thought about that ever.

Never.

I've had someone ask me that about this.

What did they say? What did they say? Where are they? And where are they? And where are they? Priscilla, I'm the shortest one. What they say?

'You know, do they accept you or are you just one of the group?' And I was like, 'One of the group? What?' Yeah, and it just fed my own insecurities. Yeah, I don't know, but it's, you know, I've never felt— there's some things I can't relate to, but you know, that's about it. Yeah, I've never felt insecure or weird about it. Huh, but it's true.

Well, I would agree with like Tam. I felt maybe not about being short because I'm a quarter of an inch, maybe it's a few inches taller, but I have felt insecure about work, that my hustle is real and I can't stay. I can't stay for lunch.

Yeah, I get that.

It's a constant, you know, we own our own business, it's a constant, it never stops.

You're always thinking about it.

So I have felt insecure of, I gotta go, I can't be around, I can't always be or stay. So I get that insecure moments of it, but to the point of comparing comparison, it's just the focus is prayer, right?

Yeah, right.

Yeah, right.

It's always about God and how can we lift each other up. When we get out of our minds kind of and doing too much, we always—

somebody always pulls us back. Yeah, I love that.

I mean, you use the word the choice, and I think that's the thing, because really comparison stems out of insecurity.

Yes.

And so it's not that there aren't insecurities. The issue is that before it bubbles up and chokes something else out, the love that you have says, this is how far this goes. And I'm going to choose to keep showing up and I'm going to choose to love anyway. And I'm going to choose to keep celebrating my sisters because what we have is— it should overshadow how I'm feeling in this moment.

And to that person that, you know, you mentioned earlier, that's like, you know, I don't do girls, you know, I think they need made a mind shift. And, you know, like me, at first it was just me and Joy. We weren't even necessarily thinking about a group. Maybe you find that one person and that's your prayer.

Yeah, because it doesn't have to be 10.

It doesn't have to be 10.

No. I mean, Jesus had 12.

It doesn't even have to be 12, right? And it also doesn't have to be prayer. That if you want to intentionally center a core group of friendship around something else, that's okay. That's your— not that I don't think everybody should have a prayer group.

That would be awesome, right?

But also if somebody's like, I actually need a play date. Like, I'm thinking, I constantly am thinking about the mother of small children.

I am.

You just want to pull your hair out.

Yeah.

You're home all day with 3 little kids. Sometimes you need to be intentional of that. I need 2 other mothers that come over on Tuesdays. We let our kids play and I have a minute to talk.

Some adult conversation.

Yeah, that's important. It really can be like a lifeline.

There was a group of women who I think they met at our church, but they would get together every Saturday to bike through Cedar Hill. And they, she said, and they would pray before they bike, just kind of as a courtesy, Lord, you know, protect us so we don't bust our face. But what she said was, because we saw each other every week and because we were intentional about making that a priority, we organically knew what was happening in each other's lives. And that spilled over into showing up for other things. It just became a part of us. So to your point, I think the key is intentionality. The key also sounds like knowing that you're loved and that you love and that you choose to let that choke out the fear and just keep showing up. And accountability.

Accountability is another really big part of it. Because the trust has been built, we can go to one another and say, hey sis, yeah, hey sis, what have you thought about this? Have you considered this?

Man, you know.

Yeah, to challenge each other.

Challenge each other.

I'm so glad you said that, because that was actually one of the very specific things I wanted to ask you. In what ways, if you can share, have you needed accountability, or have your sisters held you accountable?

Definitely accountability, I think, definitely in relationships. You know, like I said, when Tammy and I first started out, we would talk a lot about marriage and just how to be godly wives. That's where a lot of our accountability, you know, was. I know Charisse and I have had many, many conversations. And so, and now that I'm on the single side of things, I definitely need accountability.

You were getting some.

I definitely need prayer walk. Because she's fine.

Yeah, because I have a friend and I just want to make sure that I'm doing things the godly way, you know. And so, but I'm human and, you know, I'm human. I have my girlfriends that I can trust and go to and no judgment, and they're like, okay, Joy.

Yeah, because it's not even a matter of prayer. Y'all walked in here, y'all got coffee, and then the conversation was like, all right, how's this going? Yeah, I mean, it was just jumping in because you all have earned the right. Yes, you know what's happening. Yeah, you get together and you earn the right to speak specifically and directly to an issue, because they know you.

I really love too when you guys said you get together specifically for prayer, but when you get together you can just be yourselves and you can come without makeup and all that stuff. Because the truth is, you all are a very intimidating group. You're very beautiful. You're very put together. You're doing well. You know what I mean? And people look at you and kind of go, mm-hmm. Everything's pretty.

Everything.

I was like, hey! They do.

They're looking at you guys kind of like, wow, you know. So, and it's important for them to know that it's just, we don't, you're not always in pink together, coordinated, are you?

Yes.

Okay.

We're not always color coordinated.

No.

Sometimes his tears start at the door.

Yes. Oh yeah.

Someone can ask you, how are you doing?

And you just start crying all the way down.

I just couldn't wait to get here.

Yeah, I mean, it's—

that's real.

Or you get to learn each other's personalities. You know, some people have personalities where when they're going through something, they kind of go back. So yeah, and so we've been together long enough to where we're like, you got to go get them.

Yeah.

Or we'll check on it on them privately, or, or, you know, all together. But it's loving each other through transitions. You know, we were Wives Prayer first, you know, and now we're sisters prayer.

Yeah.

You know, which I think I love even more.

Yeah.

You know, I'm getting ready to go through empty nest, and so I'm being transparent about my fears of that and trying to figure out, well, what, you know, what do I want to do next and things like that. And so I think the accountability comes with the more, the more you're willing to be honest and open about what you're going through.

Yeah.

And sometimes we know, we've been together together so long. Like, somebody just dropped in my spirit. I'm like, you good over there?

And sure enough, they're like, oh my gosh.

And I'm like, you know, when you get those confirmations, you begin to act on them more.

Like, oh, now I know why.

There's a soul connection.

It's a soul connection. Absolutely.

I'll get text messages, especially from Sarah.

There.

And it's like, it'll just hit me, and I'm like, okay, how does she know? Yeah, but I'm over here just struggling today.

Yeah.

And it'll just come, and it just, it brings such a smile to my face because, you know, you're that connected. You know, she's just in tune with me. And I'm like, thank you, Lord, because it has been, it's been rough times. I mean, like, Celia knows, and Joy, just over the past few years, it has just been so much going on, and it seemed like it was nonstop for a while. And I was like, okay, Lord, I know you said you would never put more on me than I can bear, but this is getting heavy.

This is getting heavy.

And I really started to withdraw and isolate, seriously, because I just felt like I didn't want to burden them with so much of my problems that was going on. But they were there and they wouldn't let me isolate. I actually kind of got into a little pick up with my husband because we stayed out to 3 in the morning.

Oh my God, I think it was 4.

It was like 4.

Oh, you guys, we were at the Madeline, went to see a movie, we got ice cream.

We were at Corner Bakery. We were at Corner Bakery. Okay, so our husbands started looking for us because we hadn't been together. It was, you know what, it wasn't a birthday. We just decided to get together. We had a girl's night for a movie night.— And we were there and we sat down...— ...and the conversation got so deep! Yes! So amazing and life-giving, you know? We were sitting there crying eating ice cream when the bakery had closed down and before we know it's 4 o'clock in the morning and our hotel room—

and was empty.

our husbands are texting, and we didn't realize they were texting and calling each other. So now they're calling each other.

Actually, that actually raises a question. How do your husbands feel about your group? Do they particularly know that you're praying about your marriages?

They love it.

They love it because they see the change in us.

They're very supportive of it as well. I've never had my husband ever say, You going to another lunch or where you're going tonight? It's never been that kind of thing. Only that night when he came and had that GPS looking for me.

He tracked my phone, y'all. He tracked my phone. It was a late night.

Because we left, like, we ate before, like, we left like 7 o'clock.

We'd gone to dinner.

That was the only night he tracked me.

We had the burger.

We love us some dessert, so we had to get some dessert.

We love some dessert.

Just coming back to the end.

Yeah.

So even at the beginning, was there ever Was there any hesitation on their part?

Probably.

Not mine.

Probably initially, just like, what do you guys—

because they would always joke about it.

Oh, yes.

Remember when— because there's a couple times when we have gotten all of them together, husbands and wives together, and they would joke about, what do y'all talk about?

We know you've been—

they obviously, it's vulnerable for them too because they know that the original intent was to pray for them.

Yeah.

And so initially, I think my husband, I know a couple of others We joke about it, like you guys talking about it, but then it was really, they're like, they saw the fruit of it.

They saw the fruit of it.

They saw the fruit of it.

Yeah.

Speaking of Valentine's, remember we had that amazing, we did a, Millicent planned like a really amazing Valentine's dinner and we had prayers that we said to them and you could, it was so powerful.

We put them in the envelope. We put them in an envelope.

We gave them an envelope for them to keep in their purse.

It was beautiful. We were cute.

Briefcase.

Sexy.

And we had on red.

Hold on, what now?

What?

And we sat across from our husbands. It was a long table and each of us sat across from our husband and we had chosen a prayer.

Prayer.

Sure did.

To speak over them and we read it out loud and you can see it on their faces like, oh my gosh, this is And they even said, I mean, my husband was like, baby, I see the fruit. Keep going.

Keep going.

Yeah.

And then we have never, whatever has been shared, we've never seen it taken against the husband. Like we still, because some people like, wait a minute, right? We don't man bash. We don't hold it against them. It is all open and fair in love.

Yes. No, I have to say, even in my situation, my girls— I remember one time they came to Denver for a birthday, and I was— I had been going through some things, and my ex, he would have never known that they knew anything. Yeah, because they were always—

always with a little sauciness.

Yeah, we was respectful.

That's right, that's right.

On the plane. We were about to get on a plane that night. You know, book a flight, book a flight.

And then they said, oh, y'all gangsters.

Spiritual mother shut it down.

Oh, we would have been ready to go.

I had gone through my, my last situation. It was this, it was no And so I don't know who—

you sent out a group text.

Yeah, at 1 o'clock in the morning, and I was up all night.

Yes, they started booking tickets. Yes, they started looking for flights to come to Denver to my rescue.

Wow.

And our mentor, right, shut it down.

She shut it down.

I called, I said, just want to let you know the plan.

You know, Kathy's a clan and if you want to come with us.

And she said, you will not step foot in Denver.

That's her talk.

She's been out there before.

I'm on the phone like, oh, okay. Now I know we probably don't have a lot of time to get all the way into this, Crystal, but y'all just brought up something else that's very interesting.

You just did.

That you just casually said, we just called our spiritual mother. Yes.

Well, I say sister.

She's a sister.

I understand.

But the point is an older, wiser woman who you have, you in some sense have submitted to her authority and that she can say to you, don't step foot in Denver and everybody canceled their tickets. So my question to you is for someone that's thinking, I don't have a mentor in my life. I don't have somebody who I have willingly sort of submitted myself to their authority. Is that something that you all asked her to be for you? Was that an organic thing?

Started with Pat and Donna.

Pat and Donna.

Just Pat and Donna first, and then we were—

my ex-husband and I were her children's youth pastors, so that's how she and I came together.

Okay, okay, okay.

From her kid, yeah.

Um, and was it something that was a verbal, like, we're going to—

no, she told us.

I think, I mean, we were at your house, we did, um, our last prayer before you left to Denver.

Oh yeah, we had Kathy come.

Kathy came, and that's when we—

she made herself, or, you know, she was the one.

Yeah.

And she— that's when she appointed Pat and said, you're in charge.

And Pat was like, oh.

But you know, there were times we had prayer at your house one time, and, uh, Kathy was on— yes, and Kathy was on FaceTime.

Yeah.

She started it, and she was there. She was there the whole time.

So she'll drop in It's just kind of organically happened. I think we all kind of knew and trusted her and have gone to her, you know, individually, privately, and it just kind of happened.

I didn't even really know her. She stopped me in Costco.

That's why I said she's a shocker. That's Kathy.

That's Kathy.

That's Kathy.

That's Kathy. That's Kathy. That's Kathy.

That's Kathy.

Yes.

Uh-huh.

I feel like she's like, Here's what you're going to do.

Here's what you're going to do.

Yes. And you're like, okay, okay.

Well, listen, you have kind of mentioned in, you know, here and there throughout our discussion, some of the fun things that you do, but just because y'all like being together and because you like having a good time together besides dessert.

I was gonna say, what are the things that you do together?

Eat, eat, eat, shop.

I know y'all shop.

We like to shop.

We like to shop.

We used to do our trip to Miami every year.

Yeah, we used to do a trip. Travel.

Travel.

Spa.

We do love spa.

It's time for spa.

It is time.

I'm definitely big on here. So my birthday is the week after next and I think I want to do spa. Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Since we all need that, it's going back to school time.

Yeah.

Well, just let me know when.

This will be the circle of prayer.

Bounce.

Eat and get dessert. I'll eat dessert that day.

I want—

yes, yes, y'all came in here with the juicing and all this. We won't be that day.

We won't be that day. That's Sharice and Sheila.

They—

we got Tammy.

You got a couple of special occasion things with husbands that like that you've done at least one One special occasion.

Yes, Valentine's Day.

Okay, anything else?

Children, for people who are looking for, you know, kids. So yeah, kids' birthday party.

Tammy's really good about back-to-school stuff, and she's very intentional about keeping all the kids connected. And she's done little pool parties, back-to-school things for the kids. Okay. And have the husbands and everyone pray over them before they're going back to school. I need to do that, which I love that, which I truly love that, cuz we need That's where it gets me.

That's true.

Would you say anniversary?

Anniversary.

Yes.

Oh yeah.

Anniversary.

That's great.

And sad times, funerals.

Oh yeah.

It's been there too where they stepped in and Lord Jesus and just came and I know, and even when Tim's dad died, my girls were hostesses. They came and had everyone, told them circle through the door.

Yes.

You guys are there for each other in your life, but you're also there for each other in your lives. Just showing up and being a part of your life, even if that's just being a hostess at a homegoing. Yeah, that is so—

And I think what's so beautiful about what Chrystal Hurst just said is that in that, you also have given each other grace for when they can't show up.

Yes.

Because sometimes in friendship, the weight of, oh, they're going to be mad at me if I don't— That is a lot. High maintenance friendship is too hard.

It's a lot.

It's too hard.

So that's so great that you guys just give each other grace.

That's beautiful.

But the thing that is interesting about that is with this group in particular, you know that if they say, girl, I can't be there, but I am praying for you, that they really mean it.

They really mean it.

I'm gonna lift up your name.

That's right. And that's different probably than any other group. When people say, "I'm praying for you." Yeah.

Yeah.

This group, you say, "I need prayer," or, "I can't be there, but I am praying." We'll send out a 911 text to each other, "Hey, pray." Or sometimes we've had to transition into, if we can't get together, we've done conference calls. Which has been nice too.

Yeah, and it's so funny, but we be getting our prayers in before that 10 o'clock hour comes or whatever. Okay, they start praying, it's like the door is shut.

Girl, I can't make it, here's mine.

Oh yeah, and we rotate the prayer. Oh yeah, we rotate the prayer too.

That's a very practical question because an hour for 10 people sounds— for some people be like, how can we actually share our requests and how you can leave time for prayer where you're not talking, trying to share your request.

Well, that's why I just said we're not eating, we're not doing a whole bunch of other things.

So what is the practical way the sharing of requests looks like so that you— if you show up and you have an hour to pray, how does that work? Like, what does that hour look like?

So we text in our prayer requests. Okay.

So nobody gets on the freight train with the—

yeah.

What'd you say? If you're not there.

If you're not there.

If you're not there.

Okay.

So we read them.

Okay.

And then whoever's present, you say your prayer request, and then, okay, who will take Sheila's?

We kind of pray like whoever you're next to, you pray for that person.

Yeah.

Get it?

There you go.

And then put the tissues.

That's what I'm talking about.

And then put the tissues.

But I think once you said that, another thing we had to grow with is that everybody not being there.

Yeah.

That was a struggle to have.

So whoever's hosting, you choose a date that's best for you.

Yes, and whoever can come. So sometimes it's 2, and sometimes it's 10, and sometimes it's 6, sometimes it's 3, and sometimes 5 say they're coming, and by the time 10 o'clock comes, you're down to 2. So I think that the gist of it is we still have it.

Yeah, we have it.

Yes, we can't—

we're 2 or 3 gathered.

Yes, if it's just 2 of us, we're praying.

We're praying. Yes.

So we already have it.

That's some gangster war rooms, y'all.

Yes.

Our prayer schedules.

Oh, from September to May.

So you're scheduled out.

Yes, I'm November.

I'm October.

Next month. So that's, that's, is that 9 months?

10?

Yes, it should be 10. So you each get a month, but we know what month it is.

Yeah, we pick our date.

You pick our date.

We send it out to the Y'all have a calendar.

Yes, we have to.

Yeah, like at Millicent's party, I pulled out the phone, I'm like, okay, give me your phone while we're here.

And then one time at, um, one of your events, you were at one community church.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I went on and scheduled prayer around that.

I was going to say, I've seen y'all roll.

So we prayed for her. We prayed for her.

Yeah. And then —came to the—

yeah, prayed first, bought a makeup bag so that we could get cute.

Yeah, we did eat.

Now that we did eat. And then we came to see Priscilla. Yes. That's great.

Yeah. Are there any—

y'all together.

Last thoughts, closing thoughts that you want to share with the woman who really wants friends. I'm telling y'all. I believe you. I mean, by far the most frequently asked question or the statement that I'll hear has something to do with I need a mentor. But, or I need a friend. I don't have friends. I don't have— I go to church, but I don't have anybody to call. There's nobody here for me. What would you say to that person who's watching this thinking, this is great, I hear it, I get it, but I still don't have people. What would you say to her?

One thing I would say is you have to be a friend. So I would self-evaluate to make sure that I'm being a great friend and choose someone. Be bold. You know what? Girl, I'm looking for a prayer. You know, I see you in church Sunday and I admire something about you, and you can say yes or no, but I'm gonna ask. I would love for us to, you know, here's my number. Um, that would be something. Someone you run into at the gym sometimes. I mean, God just drops people in my spirit sometimes. I'm like, you know, oh no. So you got to be bold if it's something you really need in your life and you like you want to go after it, I think you have to be bold about it and take action on it and transition from I want, I want, I want and move into God lead me to where you want me to go. Show me that person you want me to connect with. That's how the whole prayer group started.

I saw something on TV, I heard about it, and God said, why don't you start it? Exactly. You know, I would have still been— I wouldn't have had y'all in my life.

I heard the Holy Spirit.

Exactly. And as you were talking about this and I heard the Holy Spirit say, be the change you want. Exactly. You know, keep talking about what you want, what you want.

Be what you want.

Be what you want.

You want a friend? Be a friend.

Be open to who the Lord puts in front of you.

Because it may not look like—

it may not look like—

yeah, that's good.

It may not look like what you thought.

It's not for us to put together.

That's really good.

That's so good.

That's really good. That sounds great.

I just say show yourself friendly. Friendly. I mean, I love what Millicent said, self-evaluation. Are you a good friend? But a lot of times, you know, I've come across women that say, you know, I don't have any friends, but then I see them and they're kind of mean-mugging and, you know, and I'm like, you know, if you're showing signs of that, you're not friendly.

Yeah, because you might actually be a friend and be the person who shows up, but you don't look approachable. You just don't have a welcoming demeanor about you. That's good, y'all. Thank you.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I think you also have to be persistent in a calm way, right? Because whoever you might approach might be busy at that moment or might not be able to. But if you come back again and say, hey, I'm at— give people grace in that, right? Give people grace in whoever God is leading you to. Give them grace and then be persistently calm, but don't give up on it and say, oh, she didn't call me back.

Or she never—

you know what I mean? Hey, give that person grace and then approach again and then let the Lord lead you if that is right for you or not.

You can't just throw it away.

Thank you all.

Thank y'all so much.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having us.

I know we're all getting everybody's schedules to be here. Oh yeah.

Let me tell you something.

What I know, and I'm sure, Chrystal Hurst, you can co-stamp this if you want to, but in many ways, numerous times during this conversation, I have heard like clear nuggets that are very practical that a woman can walk away with and say, okay, I can do that. Okay, I didn't know what we could do together, but y'all gave a bunch of ideas. I didn't know how to approach someone or maybe what I need to change in my— okay, but I can do that. Okay, I've been catty in the past or compared, but you know what? I can do that. I can choose to see what I love about them more than what I'm struggling to love about myself. I mean, very, very tangible and practical things. And I just want to thank you for sharing that because I really believe that we love Jesus and we love the Bible and we love study, but sometimes we just need a girl to say, this is how I do it.

This is what it looks like.

And I really want to thank you guys for doing that. And I want to thank you for doing that for me.

They're my sister circle.

Yes, that's why we going to show up at they lunch this week.

Yes, yes, yes.

Thank you for joining us.