S 2 Episode 6: Jamie Ivey - Showing Up For Your Life

Jamie!

Chrystal Hurst!

Okay, so first of all, thank you for joining me.

You're so welcome. I'll always join you.

You'll always join me. Listen, y'all, this is Jamie Ivey. If you don't know Jamie Ivey, you need to know Jamie Ivey. She has a great podcast. She puts on great events. She recommends great products. She wears great clothes. She has a great family. There's a lot of things to admire about Jaime. And we both podcast, so every now and then we'll be like, can you come on my show? Can I come on yours? So I have a confession to make. I think when this airs, people still will not have seen the episode that you and me and Wynter did.

Really?

So I'm gonna talk about, this actually comes after that one, but we're gonna talk I'm probably going to put this out first, but it's slotted. So let me tell you why it took so long to get the show. You know why it took so long. I won't even tell y'all. There are some things that aren't even that deep. It's just, we talked about some things and I wasn't sure. I ran it by my dad.

You did? Dr. Evans gave us the thumb up or the thumb down?

Dr. Evans gave us the thumb up. I was shocked. I ran it by Lisa TerKeurst and the Proverbs 31 Club. 31 team.

And Lisa?

Lisa gave us a thumbs up, but it took me that long to even ask.

Wow.

Um, who else?

Did you just— those two people?

Yeah, because they— because I—

you're a part of both of their ministries.

Two ministries, and I wanted to be honoring. I, I want to be honest, and I want to have practical conversations, and we had a great practical conversation with Winter.

You're so kind to go to all those measures to make sure you're doing the right thing.

Well, I just I like that. I respect it. I want to honor and be respectful. And so even though I have my opinions, I wanted to honor that. So there's a show coming out that we filmed almost 2 years ago. Can you believe?

So crazy.

It was almost 2 years ago. And, um, it had Winter's house. At Winter's house with Winter. And I've been holding on to it for 2 years. I can't wait to share it with y'all, but I got Jamie now. And I wanted to talk to you about a couple of things because we are currently at IFF Gathering. You know what one of the most frequently asked questions I get is? What? What is IFF?

What do you say?

I'm not even gonna, I'm gonna let you say it because I do my best to explain it, but this is my first year.

Oh, and this is our sixth, I don't work for, I always say our work.

You're knee deep in it. You've been in Austin when this started in Austin. With Jenny and Allen and the crew. So what is IF?

I would describe IF Gathering as a gathering of women who want to lift high the name of Jesus and believe in discipleship for the next generation. So IF started with Jenny saying, "If God is real, then what?" which can seem a little vague sometimes, but she just wanted to present this conference, this idea that if God is real, then how does that change the rest of our life. And Jenny loves discipleship. That's one of my favorite things about her. So they're super intentional with Ev about creating discipleship material, leadership stuff, working in your—

and they love to say, "Here, go to your home church and do what you do." Okay, so I get that question a lot, and I just said, you know, I think that's a part of the thing is to say, "What is it?" What if? And what does it mean to be women who love Jesus and who change our spheres of influence, however small or large that may be. And so that's been my answer, but I also will learn a little bit.

Well, welcome to IF.

Thank you. I feel like I'm— I mean, it's in my hometown now. Yeah, so Jenny moved to Dallas and we're here.

Yeah.

Okay, so we also had a little bit of a mix-up because I thought she invited me on her podcast and she thought I invited her on mine. I said, you know what, I have a camera set up, I've got I've got mics, all kinds of situations. So we're going to record something and then we'll figure out what we do with it.

But I love it. We're both like, wait, is this for my show?

I don't know what we're doing, but just come to the room. So, um, I did release a book. So we did, we're going to talk about that. And the book is called Show Up for Your Life. If you've heard of, uh, She's Still There, which is the last book I wrote, Show Up for Your Life is the teen book. Of the She's Still There. So She's Still There is for adults and Show Up for Your Life is for teens because wouldn't we often give a few dollars maybe to go back and tell our teenage self a few things? I don't know if our teenage self would listen.

She wouldn't. She definitely wouldn't.

But that's the problem.

She'd be like, you're an old lady.

I know, I know. I still— okay, sidebar. What age are you? I know what— I know how old you are now, but what age?

Oh, in my head, in my heart.

Yes.

I think if I had to pick an age to stay— oh, this is good. I want to say early 30s.

Okay.

Because I don't want to be a 20-year-old.

Okay.

I don't want to be a teenager, college, none of that. I love being 40. I'm 40 and I do not mind it at all. Maybe 40. I'm happy here. I like this.

You're happy at 40?

Yeah.

Mine is 27.

Why?

I don't feel any different today than I did at 20. I mean, of course, you know, a little more mature, a little more confident, but in terms of me settling into me, that happened at— well, it really happened at 28, but I call 27.

Okay, well, if you're gonna say that, when did I start to feel my groove? I would say 35, 36.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right. Yeah. Okay, so When you think back to your teenage self, what is one thing that if you could have young Jamie standing in front of you right now, and if she would listen, what's one thing, the most important thing you want her to know?

Oh man, so many things, but I think if I, knowing how my life progressed through teenage years, which wasn't, I didn't make the best choices as a teenager, I think I would want to look at her and tell her that that you don't have to give away yourself for love. You know, part of my story is being sexually active at such a young age, and I think I just thought it was normal, almost. Even though I went to church and I would have said I'm a Christian, I didn't value myself in that sense. And I thought that it was okay because it made me feel love in the moment. And so I wish I could tell this young 16, 17-year-old Jamie that it's lasting longer, like you have a lifetime, and that true love doesn't actually feel like that. That's what I wish I would say.

But if you don't feel it, just another little tangent, if you don't feel it, what do you, how do you communicate that to girls, women who understand that they're loved? They hear it, they read it, but the gap is still there. What do you do to fill the gap so that you don't have actions that are not appropriate to fill the gap?

That's hard. Can you tell me so I can parent my kids about the gap? I mean, but it is so true because I look back and I think I knew all the right things.

I had great family, great family.

My dad loves me. I never, I was even talking to my counselor the other day and she was like, I would guess that you had a bad relationship with your dad. And I was like, I didn't.

And people want me to say that. They're like, well, what did your parents not do? I'm like, I got nothing. I got nothing for you.

Yeah. I think maybe like when I think about me as a person, Yep. I even think I still struggle with the desire to be known.

Yes.

It just looks different now.

What are you on the Enneagram?

A 6.

That's right.

What are you?

I'm a 3.

No surprise.

I'm a 3. I actually am surprised that you're a 6.

What did you think I was?

A 3.

Thank you. I wanted to be a 3 for so long. I wanted to be a 3 because you 3 people, you guys get things done. You're making things happen.

But you get things done. You make things happen.

Yeah, but I also, what motivates me me in a lot of life is fear. I really struggle with that, even in work and everything. I mean, an example, if we put on an event and we've done this like 7 times, every time we put tickets up, I think, I wonder if people are going to come. So there's no time you sell out. And every time we sell out, so there's no— you would think that the past would dictate how you feel the next time.

It's just built in.

And I still go, I don't know. Yeah, this feels kind of scary.

You know what? And that's what I think. I think that We are all— I'm not a psychologist, so if this is wrong, y'all tell me in the comments.

Chrystal@chrystalhurst.com.

Giving out my email and stuff.

But that's not really your real email.

Yes.

Y'all gonna have to edit that. I just made up an email.

Okay. So, but I think that we are all born, like we accept the fact that we're born with like physical predispositions, right? We just born with a tendency towards some things. And I think for me, the need to achieve is my baked-in tendency, and my need to have approval based on that achievement is my tendency. I remember being in kindergarten, and I mean, it just lit me up for the teacher to say, good job, Chrystal Hurst! I mean, I mean, all kids do, But I think that I got motivated to do more and more of the stuff not because, not only because I wanted to do a good job, but I wanted the good job.

And you're the oldest.

I'm a firstborn.

Yeah.

I'm a firstborn. I remember in the first grade I read, I asked my teacher if I could read to the class. Like, when we do our assignment, can I read to the class? And she let me do it. I was very proud that I was reading to the class. And then she said, "You know what, Chrystal's doing such a good job, is there anybody else who wants to read to the class?" And I was like, "No!" Just me! No! I need to continue to be on display. I mean, so I don't— and I don't remember having that feeling at home like I had to put something on to get approval.

Aren't 3s performers?

I don't know.

Is that a part of a 3?

You know what, I'm mad at the whole Enneagram thing in general. Have you read any of the books?

I've read 2 books.

Which 2 books have you read?

The Road Back to You, Suzanne Saville and Ian, and then I read The Path Between Us by Suzanne Saville. So those are the two I've read. You're mad at it?

I'm mad at it. And I'm, you know, Monique is back behind the camera nodding her head and I'm like, I'm done with all of y'all Enneagram people because here's the thing, I just, there's so, I mean, I did the Myers-Briggs and I did the DISC. And you know, there's all these different things. I'm like, this is just another thing to tell me who I am. And supposedly, you know, God tells me who I am. I just, I have not read any of the books. She gave me a book for Christmas.

Okay, you should read them. I'm going to tell you just for a second why I think you should read them is because I don't think that any Enneagram, Myers-Briggs, whatever can define who Chrystal Hurst is.

Yes.

Like you have been created.

I tell everybody else to read them.

You have been created. You are an image of God. All those things. God is in control of who who you are, your personality, everything. But I will say this, I don't like base my life off the Enneagram by any means, but it has been a helpful tool in my marriage a little bit, even for Aaron to understand why do I feel the way I feel sometimes. So it's been helpful.

No, it is, it is helpful. I've said about any personality test, people should take them. This is what I tell other people, right? People should take them because it gives you language to explain who you are to other people. They don't, you don't just expect them to get it. You can actually explain it. And then it gives you a heads up on what other people may not be able to tell you. It just gives you a little pulse. I love it.

And I asked Suzanne Savelle when I interviewed her, I said, this seems like a fad. It's been around for hundreds upon hundreds of years, but it is very big right now. And I was like, do you think it'll last? And she's like, I mean, look at what we've seen with personalities. You know, one, One decade, are you a lion or a tiger or a bear?

I did that one too.

I know.

Who were you?

I don't even know. I never did that one. But I want to be a lion.

Listen, I was an otter. Wait a minute, no.

An otter?

I was an otter lion or a lion otter, and my husband is a beaver retriever. And the— I know, exactly. And the guy who was leading it, and he was talking about the different combinations in marriage, we were the only ones. And when we raised our hands, he said, man.

That's the worst?

He said, that is the hardest combination. I said, "Oh, okay, thank you." Okay, thank you. Okay, so you're a 6.

I'm a 6.

Okay.

My husband's a 3.

He's a 3? Mm-hmm. Okay, well that works together pretty good, doesn't it?

Yeah, we do great together.

Okay, okay. So you have all these things going on, but we talked about kind of in the past how you show up for your life or what you would tell your younger self and how maybe some of the reaching that we do out of fear or out of a desire for love is based baked in. I want to tell you how I think you show up for your life right now.

I would love to hear this.

Okay, you say no. You told me no, not bitter, you told me no, no, I'm just kidding. You told me no because it was something about the summer, something in the summer, and you said, no, no, no, it was something in the fall. And you told me that you do your best to be home for games because y'all are in Austin, so y'all are, you know, UT Hook 'Em Horns people, and y'all have season passes, and you try to make as many of those with your family as possible to make memories with your children. Yeah. And you know, a lot of people would easily say, there's enough home games where I can— and I'm sure you do pick and choose, but I just thought, you know what, I respect that, girl. I respect her for saying, "Can't do it. I gotta be with my family." So you say no.

Well, thank you, thank you. I do say no because you and I both know there's a lot of things I can't say no to. And there's a lot of things I do miss of my kids. And so if we can get far ahead in advance and I can say, "Every game I get to take, you know, 3 of you with me." And then we pick who's going to what game and it is, it's really fun for us. So thanks for giving me grace for being with my family.

Yes, I'm giving you grace for showing up. I also think you you show up, and this may be built in, maybe it's not, you— somebody was talking to me about how they follow you on, um, Instagram. It was Winter. It was Winter before I met you. She— I was like, now, who is this Jamie Ivey? Because we were going to meet you at that conference.

Yes, we were up at that.

And I was like, who is she? And she was telling me y'all had gone on a trip together, and she said, she's just interesting, she's just fun to watch. She said, if you get on her Instagram and take a look at her, she said, she's, she's going to always brighten up your day because she's smiling and she's cheerful and she seems to have a good time with her husband and her kids. And from, I can remember the very first picture I saw and it was the stance because you do it often and you'll, I know what you're talking about because that's all I do. What's the stance? Do it.

Well, when I stand and put, I put one foot behind the other foot.

No, not the like I'm ready for the cameras, I'm gonna have fun stance.

Oh, what is it? No, tell me. Oh yes.

When your fingers are all spread out.

When I take pictures, I do that and Aaron's like, "Okay, Bob Goff." That's what he calls me.

And I was like, "It's so fun." That is what he does. Yeah, so it was a picture, one of those versions where you're doing that. But I feel like we talked about this before. Are you naturally positive and happy or no?

I think that I am.

Yeah, 'cause you're 6, but do you lean towards a 7 or a 5?

7's my wing.

Yeah, and 7 are happy, cheerful people.

Yes, but I think also there's something in me that I have spent some time around some people who just everything is the worst. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, oh my gosh, my room has white sheets. Oh, I hate white sheets. I mean, just every—

It's draining.

It's draining. It's draining. And so I have just always tried I try to see how can this be fun. There is a fault to it as well. I also see that I also am a people pleaser, and so I want everyone to be happy. This is also something I'm talking with my counselor about, okay? In my home, with my friendships, with my family, I want everybody to be happy. And so sometimes I take on the burden of everyone's— everybody's happy. And so inside, that's There's good and there's bad.

But sometimes it goes too far.

Yeah, I would say I am a positive person, even just at home with my family. I mean, I'm not walking around like this to my kids when they get in, but I do try to. And I mean, Jesus, you know, the reason I do it— not to be too spiritual, but I do, I do want to also give credit where credit could be due.

I'm a glass half full person.

Thank you for the joy.

Yeah, I'm a glass half-empty person. I have to really work hard to not— like, when— because it's so draining for me, I kind of have had to channel the, "I don't want to hear your complaint. I don't want to hear your complaints." But I think I do that sometimes. So I don't want that. So what do I— I don't want to be that person. So what do I need to do to be the opposite? And I literally have to think, if they would have said it this way, it would have been better. Okay, I can, I can learn from that. Like I have to constantly work on.

Also for me with social media, I am by no means fake on social media. If you ask my friends in real life, I would hope, and I think they would say you are the same person. I also, if I'm going to be on the internet and you're going to follow me, I want to make it worth your time.

You want to make it worth it.

I want you to, I don't want to come on there and rant about what I hate. I want to tell you what's good. And so that I think about that. With social media.

Okay, so you wanted to know what Winter was, her Enneagram number. Yes, she, she was a 9, and she hated being a 9. No, she hated people asking her about her number or telling her what she was, because people would tell her, you've got to be a 9, you've got to be a 9. And she was like, because then they decide who, who they think I am based on my number, and I don't, I don't want you to decide. I want you to get to know me.

But yes, this is one of the pitfalls with the Enneagram or with anything, and it's for you to say, oh, you're a 3, so you must be like this. Like, oh, I bet you do that because you're this.

Yeah.

Instead of seeing the positives and the beautifulness of how all the personalities work together.

Yeah, she was, she was a 9, but then her husband is a 3, so that was real fun.

That's fun.

That was real, that was real fun. Okay, you've mentioned your kids.— and people may or may not know this, you have a very interesting family.

Let's talk about that real quick. So my husband Aaron and I have been married 17 years and we have 4 kids. Our oldest is a freshman, our only biological, and then we have 2 boys in 7th grade, they're both 13. One was adopted from Haiti, one was adopted domestically, born in San Antonio, and then our youngest is is a daughter in 5th grade, born in Haiti, adopted as a 2-year-old.

Why did you adopt?

That's a good question. Uh, you know, people—

the first time, because it may have changed with, you know, as you kept going, right?

People will say, did you and Aaron always want to adopt? And the craziest thing is that we never talked about it until we started doing it. Like, it's not like we got— I hear girls all day that they got married knowing, yeah, like, I want to adopt, I hope my than does or whatever.

Like, that's part of the criteria. You're not the man for me. You don't also share this passion.

Exactly. And so nothing at all for us. I never knew anyone that was adopted. I never knew anyone that had adopted. And we moved to Tennessee from— we were living in Houston, and we were surrounded by families who were adopting from China. And so it was all of a sudden we just went, oh, there's a need. Yes, these people are building their family this way. And so God just used that to to kind of bring adoption to our attention. And we walked into an adoption agency when my son was 7 months old, and we just were— I mean, we were babies. We were 26.

But the Holy Spirit hit. Y'all were passionate. Yeah, you went into action.

And we said, hey, we feel like God is asking us to grow our family by our next kid through adoption, but we don't have any idea. And we didn't qualify for any international adoption, our age, years married, whatever. And so she said, we really have a need right now. For people to adopt biracial and Black boys. And we said, that sounds okay. And that led us our domestic adoption to our son that was born in San Antonio. And then from there, we just never talked about having any more biological kids. I, I cannot explain except for God.

Because see, the assumption would be is that maybe you struggle to have the first one.

Exactly.

You couldn't have any more, then you were like, we want a full house, so we're just going to keep going the adoptive way.

But that's not the case. I don't know if we can have any more kids.

Okay.

Yeah, we, I mean, I don't know. Y'all just never even, we just never talked about getting pregnant again. And I loved being pregnant. I love nursing. I love all the things about pregnancy. And so then when we decided to add to our family again, I had been to Haiti on a trip. And so it just kind of was on my heart and I had seen, I had never seen poverty like I saw. And So one thing led, and that led us to our kids.

That's very interesting. Yeah. That's very interesting. I think, I think I may have wondered that. I don't think that I've ever realized that I've wondered that, but like sitting here looking at you, you can tell my wheels are going.

Yeah.

I'm sitting here going, huh, I think I just asked a question I think other people are asking or might want to know that maybe I do too. Yeah. So that's a really interesting thing because—

And I don't talk about adoption a lot.

Yeah, why not?

My kids are older. I mean, I used to talk about adoption all the time. I used to blog about it. I used to write about all kinds of things, and my kids are older now, and it's not that I was sharing their stories per se, yes, but I just talked about it. We also used— Aaron and I used to be just like, oh, everyone should adopt, it's awesome. And I'm so thankful for the way God made my family. I adore my kids. This is how I believe in God, saw all the things. Yes. I just think there's more that you should think about before you step into adoption than we did.

Y'all just went shh.

Yeah, we just jumped in and that's how we just learned. But I like talking to people like, oh, let's have coffee and let's talk about how beautiful adoption is, but also how hard it is.

Yes. And I have a friend who said to me, she adopted 2 children from Haiti and this is what she said to me. And I was glad that she felt safe to say it to me. She said, "They talk about all the wonderful outcomes of adoption, how your heart is expanded, how of course the children have a home and a family." She said, "Nobody told me how hard the attachment thing would be." She said, "I'm supposed to say," and I'm not saying this is your case, I'm just saying this is what my friend told me. She said, "I'm supposed to say I love all my kids equally." And she said, and now I think she would say that, But in the first 2 years, she was like, "I don't— I thought it was going to be magical and instantaneous." She said, "It wasn't, and I was heartbroken over that when I realized that it was hard for me to love in the way I wanted to love a kid who did not come from me." And that story is not everybody's story, but I think, and I'm sure you've run into that when you talk to other adoptive parents, that, you know, some have that experience and and others don't. Why do you think that adoptive parents, or maybe some people do, maybe it's just situational, but why that's not a part of the, you know, here it's like childbirth. They tell you about some things that can go wrong. There are a lot of things that can go wrong in childbirth, but most people know about shoulder dystocia. Most people know about, but why do you think it's not like, okay, when you adopt, like here are the things that may not quite go the way I think for a couple of reasons.

Number one, if I were to say out loud to a group from a stage, I don't love all my kids the same and it's really hard for me to love one of them.

You can't say that.

But the thing is that involves another person.

That involves another person, right.

And so that's not fair to that person. I had a big aha moment about 6 years ago. My kids have been home 9 years, both of them from Haiti, 9 years, and I had a huge moment about probably 5 years ago, I was about 4 years in. And the first 2 years that my kids came home were really hard on every member of our family. And about 2 years after that, I had a moment and I'm so thankful that God gave me this because it was as if he said, Jamie, you think this has been really hard for you. It's been really hard for your kids too. And I just went, God, I'm so selfish. I'm so selfish to think this has been so hard for me. But what about my kids who at 4 and a half, were taken from a country that all they knew. Coming to America is not the best, it's not a savior. It doesn't solve all your problems. It doesn't—

y'all seen that movie?

Forever ago. But people think they're gonna bring a kid home from a, from a hard situation and then they're gonna be like, thank you, I've never had this many toys in my entire life.

They might be like, I don't want the toys, I just want to go home.

It's exactly right. And so I had a moment of going, God, this has been really hard for my kids. And I, as a mom, you don't want anything to be. And so it made me think adoption is always built on loss. There's no adoption without loss. There's no adoption without brokenness. It doesn't matter. One of my kids came home from the hospital, there's still a loss there. He has a biological mother somewhere. We have an open— so I know where she is, but he has a biological mother that he doesn't interact with. And so it's always lost. And so for me to go, Jamie, this isn't about you, this is about— your eyes Because I like, I really grew a lot in that moment, in those moments, and it has been hard, but I never would want my kids to think, "You've made my life hard," you know, because God is so beautiful to put us together, and I trust Him that He wanted me to walk through this with them, and He wanted them to walk through this with me. And so it's also hard. I mean, I, my kids are on the internet. I mean, I stand up and give a talk about adoption, and my kids Google their name, and all of a sudden there's their mom. I'm saying about how hard. So I do want people, but I also think raising kids is hard. I mean, you know what I mean? And so we just have different variables.

People ask about blended families. I have a blended family and they want me to tell them the magic for blended families. I said, first of all, there's no magic for regular families. You work it out. Blended family has its own unique set of things to work out, which may layer some difficulty onto it, but it's still the thing you got to work out. Parenting is a thing you've got to work out because you can have all of the children come from your womb and through your vajayjay, you're not going to like them all the same.

True story.

It's just the way it is.

Yeah, it is.

So, okay, I have another question I want to ask you. So I heard, um, Lisa Harper talk about recently, um, there was something that happened on social media with a group of people saying to to her something about her adopting children of color and the savior complex that they assumed she has when she did it. And she was just heartbroken over that because she was like, I'm not going in here trying to prove anything to anybody. I really do believe God gave Missy— Missy's her daughter— gave Missy to me. I'm wondering, have you run into that?

Yes. I mean, there is a whole sphere of people in the world and in the internet world that really hate adoption.

And they have the balls to say something.

Yes.

Okay.

So, the thing is, gosh, I wish there was no adoption. I wish nobody needed to be adopted. You know what I mean? Like, I wish every woman around the world had the capacity to work and take take care of her children. I wish AIDS did not kill families. I wish that poverty didn't exist. I wish war didn't exist. So I wish that this didn't have to be how it is, but it is. But, and so I think that there are, there is some people who do feel as though I'm going to bring a child in and I'm going to be the one that saves them and makes their life happy. And I can see that kind of mixed up. But when I look at adoption, I don't see it as Aaron and I like, "Oh, poor little child from Haiti, come live with us and we'll make your life better." We just look at it as in, this child needed a family. We were in the process of building our family through adoption, not because we didn't, we didn't feel like we could build families through the, you know, typical way, but because we just felt this is what God's asking us to do. And so we're just following God's lead and they needed parents and I believe, and this is, people, you're gonna get some emails about this.

That's good, I'm good.

I believe God always knew I was gonna be these kids' parents, you know? There's some hard truths to that that I even struggle with. So we don't have to go there, but theologically, that's still hard for me sometimes. Mm-hmm. But I do still stand on it because if I believe God is sovereign over everything, I have to believe he's sovereign over my family. And so the whole, I think it's a white-black thing as well.

It's a whole lot of white-black things.

It's a whole, for like me and Aaron, we're white and we have 3 black children. Let me tell you, if you think that's easy, it's not. It's hard for black parents to parent black kids. It's really hard for white parents to parent black kids because I don't have the experience that you and your husband bring to the table.

And I even think even further than that, I think there's a difference between parenting black girls and parenting black boys. I mean, there'd be a difference—

You've done both, but yeah, I see.

Societally, it's a challenge.

Yeah, yeah. So I saw that with Lisa and man, I hate it because you and I, we know her and there is zero of that in her. Her heart or her story or her motives, us either, you know, but I think you're gonna, the people that were saying that are the ones who want to think that and see that. And so yeah, it's, well, that would, it would not do anything for me if someone said that to me, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Because that's your personality? Because I, cause she was, she was in tears over it. So, I mean, obviously everybody would have to handle it.

Well, let me look, I'm acting big and bad over here. I would, it would hurt me. I also think the people that are saying that are not people who are like, we love Jesus and we follow him and we believe that he is all of these things. I would really guess the people said that are also against more than Lisa adopting a black child. I'm gonna throw it out there. I don't know.

I don't know either.

I would, I would bet a lot of money. That they're against more than what just happened.

It's a very interesting thing. Well, I think that you and your husband and your decision to adopt, especially the way that you described it to me, which is like, God put it on our hearts and then we did it and then we kept doing it, um, no one can argue, regardless of whatever the personal opinions may be, that when you felt God guiding you and directing you. You decided if he's calling, we're going to show up for the call. And I think that how you podcast, how you encourage, how you do events, how you speak, how you, in my opinion, you go after the things that you feel like God has called you to do, that you want to do, that you kind of, that you dream about doing. Dream about it. We've talked about dreams and the things we hope to to do one day. I think that that is a pattern of you living a life where, whether it's internally driven or God-given driven, you're just like, you know what, if it's the next thing, by golly, I want to show up and do the thing.

I mean, I appreciate you saying that, and I like that, and I do see that in our adoption. I mean, we just went, and it was like, you know, God, you're the lamp unto my feet. Like, this is what I can see. Just give me the next step. Like, this is the next step. And we've just kind of done that. And also on that whole adoption thing, you got me all kind of riled up over here with that. I'm sorry, I'm all kind of riled up. But I just also think that if people knew what it is to walk through an international adoption, or what, what it means to— what sacrifice a family does for the sake of the kid, it's not— it's It's not, there's no glory. You know what I mean? And I think sometimes I will say I have felt a little bit of sometimes the church, like, we're so impressed with you. Look at you guys adopting kids.

The church or like even just locally, like, are you saying that in general?

No, I think general.

Okay.

General. We're so, look at you. I'm so, when I tell my story, sometimes they're like, you're so good. I'm so proud of you. And I'm like, listen, This is just God saying, hey, go here.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so there's no international adoption for—

that's how I feel about having 5 kids. Oh, 4 of them biologically. When people say, oh, look at you, mother of 5, and I homeschool. Uh-huh. And you homeschool. And, you know, that is just, girl, superwoman. And I'm like, listen here, I don't know if they did their assignments today or not. I don't know if they had cereal. I don't know what they're doing.

I don't know where they are.

I don't know what's happening. I mean, I just, but I do feel that for me it was keep having babies.

And God just said, here's the thing. Yeah.

He just put up, he was like, keep going.

Yeah.

Care drives Caris nuts, but I'm telling you the truth.

Yeah. Today, right now, if I got pregnant today, I thought you were about to tell me you were. Girl, no announcement. Announcement.

No, uh-uh. I'm just saying now there would be a little bit of an oh, Oh Jesus, I'm almost 50. I know Janet Jackson did it, but she, that's—

Janet Jackson.

I know, she's Janet Jackson. No, I'm just saying, like, I'd be like, 'cause it's built into me, and it would be like, okay. Now, Karris hates that. She's like, it's my turn. It needs to all be— stop it. But I get that, I get that, but I think this idea of showing up to your life is something that you can do early. But if you didn't do it early, because we, we both had our own little issues, we were in our late teens, teenage, early 20s, um, it's never too late. Yeah, I don't think it's ever too late.

Yeah, and I think that we find in different season and different rhythms that even looks different, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like some things get harder, easier. Like, even when you were like here's how you show up for your life, Jamie. You say no to things. I've had to learn how to say no, you know, and what to say no to, how to know which things. And it looks different. And some time it was, I need to say no to too many play dates, and now it's like work-driven, right? But even Aaron and I in our personal life are like, hey, we need to— these are the things we're willing to spend our time on. And even with friends, here are the people that we're willing to spend time with. It doesn't mean we don't like you, it just means We only have so many hours a week, so many times with our kids, and if we're gonna go out—

listen, and the opposite is true with yeses. The other day my husband and I were gonna go out on a date. He messed around, got sleepy. I was like, are we still going? And he was like, no, I'm sleepy. I said, okay, bye, I'm still going to the movies. And then he was like, you're gonna just go without me? I said, mm-hmm, because I've realized that at 46 years old, if all of my kids are gone for the evening and if I have the energy to go out and see a movie and I want to—

you need to go.

I need to go.

Okay.

So it's learning the nos and it's learning your yeses too.

Yeah.

And that takes time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, listen, girl, I love you. You know I love you. And I thank you for, um, being a good friend who teaches me and reminds me to show up for my life. And I like watching you show up for yours. Thanks, Chrystal Hurst.