Shameless Maya Shares Her Personal Journey to KNOWING GOD

Okay, so y'all, you know I like to geek out. You know that I'm a, I'm a geeky girl. All the equipment, all the things. Those desires to learn sometimes send me to YouTube, and then I go down the vortex of YouTube with all the technology, and then I find myself into spaces and places where I fall in love with YouTubers. I watch their life. I'm curious about how they do things. I'm interested in their vlog. And that vortex led me one day to a young lady named Maya. She can be found in all the places, but on YouTube specifically as Shameless Maya. And she has been shamelessly sharing her life in all the best of ways for years. It's my pleasure to introduce to you today, and for us all to get to know her together, Miss Maya. Welcome to the podcast, Maya.

Thank you, and it's so great to be here, and I'm so excited to get to know you, girl. The way you found me, I found you. And I was like watching your video, write it down, and I was like writing down notes from your video.

So, oh, that's great, that's great. Well, I just, I think my initial foray into you is just vlogging and watching your very interesting life. I was looking at your Instagram, um, today in preparation for this interview. And I was just thinking she has led and is still leading a very exciting life. Now I know it's all the curated stuff, but I mean, for those who don't know you, you're in Sweden right now. You are married, you're a mom, but you didn't start out chasing Sweden or chasing marriage or chasing motherhood. You were just, you've had iterations of your life. And so, um, I'd love for us to just kind of take the journey, kind of how you got to where you are now. Why you started YouTubing, what you were talking about, and how the subject matter has changed over time. Just a, just a tour through the ages real quick so we can get to know who you are now and where you've been.

Yes, a quick tour through the ages. Um, okay, so I started my journey on YouTube back in 2012, and it started out as a social media experiment on what would happen if I was shameless for a year. And so that was back in 2012, and in the process of living out this exploration of shame, I discovered that fear was holding me back a lot. And I was living in New York at the time, and I was a struggling artist, broke, going through a divorce. And I was also reading the Bible. So I was simultaneously doing this online journey while learning and discovering God. And he catapulted my career in ways that I could never have dreamt of or imagined.. But I was reading the Bible and trusting God on a very— I don't know how to describe it. It's almost like a scientific slash this walk and work is working for me. And so I had a challenge for myself to read the Bible in one year while I was also doing this Shameless self-promotion. And it was almost like a check mark. And so I took my walk as more like, this work, this is working for me, and this is my truth, but I don't want to put my truth and what's working for me onto others. And so I was very much like, Jesus died on the cross for me, but if that's not your belief, then that's not your belief. I was very lukewarm, shallow, just bathing in shallow waters. And so, um, That kind of influenced my— the rest of my trajectory. So I got all the success that I had ever imagined it and more, but I felt a hollowness, an emptiness. And I started to go out and seek love instead of necessarily seeking God more. Like, I thought the word— it's like, oh, I read the book, I don't have to read it more than once. And so I was like, oh, I'll do a devotional here or there, but I wasn't going into it with like, let me get to know God. And so I discovered my now husband on a journey of self-exploration. I went on a solo trip in Colombia. And I just remember being in LA and like, this is not it. I could do more of more, but what's the point? Like more success, a bigger home, more cars, but like, ah, I have a very short attention span, so, um, and then Max introduced me into a whole world I had never, um, entertained. Like, he, he was so worlds apart from me, but we were both creatives. We met each other in Colombia and, um, I was just like, Sweden? I don't even know. I know that's in Europe somewhere, but like, I have no frame of reference of Sweden, period. Like, I was like, what, Sweden? Maybe IKEA. I don't even know if I knew IKEA was Swedish. Um, yeah, so then, you know, pandemic happened to all of us, and that was kind of my, my intersection of like, am I going to continue this, you know, building this American dream Or am I gonna explore a new adventure? And so, um, I'm— this is the Cliff Notes. Somewhere in the process between meeting Max, um, as friends, we ended up becoming engaged in Berlin. All of a sudden, I went from not stepping foot in Europe to booking jobs. I want to say randomly, but God presented opportunities for me to make choices. And so I was booking work in Germany. I was I was getting all the jobs in France and stuff, and so I was able to explore our courtship. We got married— oh, sorry, engaged in Berlin. I went back, pandemic happened, and I was like, okay, so I'm going to take this next step and get married. So we got married, in the process became parents, and that lukewarm place that I was in with God— I always talked to God And I always picked up the Bible here and there, more devotionals. But then finally, when I became a mother and struggling, I was an immigrant. I didn't know the culture. I was culture shocked. I was just struggling. It was a hot mess, girl. It was so hot, so messy. And then I had nothing left to do but turn to God. And I'm like, okay, well, you saved me before in New York. During my divorce, maybe you can help me again. And I was treating— I didn't realize it at the time, but I was just more like scientific, like it worked then, I'll do it again. And so I was like, okay, let me start reading the Bible again. And this time I was looking at the Bible, I'm like, this time I'm poking holes in it because I just read it as like, just like a novel that you do. And now I'm just like, I'm pressing God. And in that whole process is when I was like, oh, I messed up. Like, I did not know how— not how real God is, but like, there are certain lines you cannot cross. Like, understanding that this God is a holy God— whoo, girl! I basically— it's been a process, but the conviction hit me so hard that I was on my knees. And I didn't grow up in like— like, I admire people like you and your family because you grew up in the faith. I grew up in a Catholic church and nobody talked about Revelation, so I had no clue. And so to go from no clue to literally the Holy Spirit convicting me on my knees, and I'm like, why does this feel so different? And literally the Holy Spirit was like, because I'm coming. And I'm like, what? So I'm reading the Bible trying to figure out what's going on, and it's just been Pandora's box. Since. Like, I admire other people's journey. It's very like, the Lord loves me, and yes, the Lord does love me, but it's been very like, I have— I am working out my salvation with fear and trembling because those words are so scary and also inspiring because I do look forward to the life after this. But I am I reverence the Lord so much, and I see how awesome he is that I don't want to mess up. And I, in that process, I'm having a hard time finding my place in this online world now because I was so shameless. And even though I feel like I naturally have those abilities to be shameless after so many years of doing it Now I'm just like, maybe I should learn in silence because I keep putting my foot in my mouth. Not to say I won't, but I respect my Heavenly Father so much that I'm just like, how can I be obedient while still doing what you've called me to do? So I'm figuring it out.

Wow, that's a lot. In, but no, like in the, in the best way, in the, there, in there, like, as you were talking, I was like, one of the hardest things for me in interviewing people is I will have a question every 3 seconds and I wanna write them down so that I don't forget, but I wanna pay attention. And so like, as you were talking, I, I had so many, so many questions, but only because when, when someone's journey. And I mean, yes, journey to faith, journey of faith, but also just the journey. Um, when someone's journey is so, um, buried, you know, and, and the points of growth and revelation are so poignant, it is, it is, it's interesting. And I, when you said like you admire um, my family, and I'm grateful for faith and I'm grateful for growing up in a house of faith. And I'm grateful for not ever having to figure out faith, at least in my head. You know, I didn't have to work hard. I've had, you know, we have to make our faith our own, but I always admire, in fact, I grew up going to a Christian school and I would always admire the people who had these major revelations of faith. And I used to think, Well, if I hadn't known you, if I had had some screw-up life, or if I had just, you know, grown up on the backside of the desert, maybe when I came to know, when I came to know you at a certain point in my life, it would feel more like a big bang as a, as opposed to casual and known and comfortable, if that makes any sense. So I am probably just as taken with your move towards faith and God's miraculous revealing of himself to you, um, that you may be with me with having had faith all my life. Does that make sense? I think God is— no matter how we come, God is good to get us to where we need to be with him. Um, you know, it makes me think of in Romans, and I can't remember if it's Romans 1 or Romans 8, there's a scripture that talks about people knowing that there's a God, just if they would open their eyes and look around. Like when you think about people like in indigenous areas where it's like they don't have the Bible in their language, or do they have a missionary? Like there's this verse that says basically they can figure it out just by God's revelation, right? And so watching and listening to his revelation of himself to you, to me is really important for someone who feels like in a historically Christian country like America, with Bibles everywhere and a church on every corner, if they're not getting it, that that's okay because they— without all those things, God can still reveal himself. I think that it's very encouraging to someone to hear your, your story. So I guess my first thought would be, I did wonder, okay, so now how's it going with the channel that used to have so many different things on it? Oh girl, yeah, you know, and, um, I mean, even I, I'm sure even no matter how much you love God, your creator's heart has got to look at like your views and go, okay, like, you know, am I— what is my— what is my reach? How can I connect with this audience? Like, I have all these people that followed and I know everybody's not going to be interested in everything, but you know, how can I reach the people who are, who are here? Um, let me ask this. So Shameless, you kind of talked about it a little bit, but what did that mean when you first started out? I mean, I can look at your most popular videos and see just by the thumbnail what you were talking about, but if you had to describe what did it mean to live shameless, what was, what was that year of being shameless? What, what was in your head to do?

It was taking a huge step of faith into the unknown because I, I come from like, I started YouTube when I was 30, and I'm not like this kid in social media who grew up understanding this. So I had as much a learning curve as adults. I wasn't like a kid born into it. I had to learn it. So for me, it was a step of faith into, I don't know what's going to happen, but I know I'm a creative. I know God has blessed me with these abilities, and I'm just going to throw everything to the wall and see what sticks. And so it was a process of self-discovery. Seeing what works. But even in that world, I didn't want to play to the views. I was 30 and I was still at least grounded in myself that I'm like, I know what gets me views, these transformation videos, these hair videos, but I still have a need to express, not pander or play to. Yeah. So I was always mindful of Yeah, maybe you do a couple of those to bring in viewers, but you still need to be true to who you are and tell your story. So I tried to like, um, juggle that, but it was year to year, back to back. And even now, like, I want to say the past 3 years, I have been going from like once a week, multiple times a week upload, to like On my best month, it might be once a month. And, um, the views, they— yes, they kind of— they're there, but they, they don't bother me so much. Like, I'm aware of it, um, but in this, you know, this process of 3 years of like pulling away from social media and pouring into like my Bible— like, I literally— if, if we were to compare like my spiritual workout versus my physical social media workout, let's say, like I'm crushing it in the spiritual realm. Like, she has gains. Um, but I mean, I don't have much to show for it. Like, and that's the— that's, I think, the most conflicting thing. Because if I look at the material world, I don't have, you know, this car that says, you know, I have arrived. Like, I live in this tiny home. Like, this is literally the size of my home. So Again, I care more about what God thinks because I've spent so many years in the world, at least so many years for me in New York, Los Angeles, climbing that social ladder that I'm like, I deserve a break. One, two, I'm spending time with the Lord. And three, I'm like, Lord, can you speak a little bit louder or clear out my ear so I can hear you a little bit better? Because What is this next step? So for me, then the next step, when I did actually, I was literally in the countryside wilderness pushing a stroller crying like, God, what the heck am I doing here in Sweden? So I'm not posting online. So then what am I doing, Lord? And then he's like, I need you to help the other mother go through what you went through. Like, take her by the hand and see her onto the other side. And I was like, Wait, what does that even mean? And for whatever reason, it was just like doula. So I was like, okay, I guess I will get into doula work. But I knew I wanted to share the untold story of like the first-time mother in like postpartum, the fourth trimester. That was so hard, like extremely hard. And I wanna say like, I feel like the mothers who struggle, they're like, "Nobody's had it as bad as I had." But I'm like, "Nobody's had it as bad as I had." So I was like, okay, from my YouTube channel, I want to share that conversation that I'm like, how come I didn't know about breastfeeding and all the hurdles with that? How come I didn't know about identity struggle? How come I didn't know about like dynamics with families would change? And ah, it was just, So I was more curious in the beginning of like the breastfeeding journey because I felt so cursed. I'm like, I literally feel like I'm cursed, Lord. You know, most mothers are saying it's hard breastfeeding for 2 weeks. It was hard literally for 3 months. And I was like, why? Why did it have to be that long? Like, I get it. I get it. Like, I get the memo. Why? Why? And I couldn't understand why while I was in it, but it wasn't until I got out of it and I had like a certificate and I had all this wealth of knowledge of having gone through each and every breastfeeding complication you could think of while also having to figure out a new language while also having to figure out just like just little things like going to the grocery store. It's, it's, it is a mind explosion because you have to speak a language that you've never heard before.

And so it was just But I feel like that's kind of the statement of your life. You're talking about speaking a language, you know, living in Sweden. You might even be talking about speaking a language of learning, um, the breastfeeding journey, which I, my, I have my own story there. I was too dumb and young to know that it was horrible. I just thought it was horrible because I was dumb and young, but, but that's a language. Learning how to speak a language when you are communicating with God, knowing when he's speaking to you and how to communicate, learning the language of having to communicate your faith. Like you're saying, you feel like you have to put your foot in your mouth. You want to share, but I mean, I just feel like so much in your life has been learning the language. Even, you know, talking about the beginning of your channel where you're living shamelessly, it's— you were communicating the language of you, like, here's me living authentically. And I am sharing that and I'm sharing my revelations via communication with other people. So to me, like just from the outside looking in, all you've been doing your whole life is saying, hey, as I, as I learn to express myself in the language of the season or the language of my lens, I'm just going to tell you what I know. And I may butcher it. I may use the wrong word in the grocery store. I may be frustrated because I'm trying to talk to a mother or a doula and I'm trying to express it. And we're not, we're not speaking the same language. I may be sharing what I'm learning about the Lord and I may be saying it wrong, but your willingness. And this is what I think is amazing about what God has put in your hands, your willingness to say, as I'm learning, as I'm learning who I am, as I'm learning about you, God, as I'm learning about marriage, as I'm learning about motherhood. As I'm learning about how to take my creative gifting and, and share it with the world in all these different places, as I learn how to, uh, you know, put a digital book together, I'm just gonna keep talking about what I'm learning. And I think the, the gift that you give is that you're willing to do that because so many people don't wanna share what they're learning until they get it right. And there are many people who are watching you. Who are learning from you, who, while they, you may, you may say, you know, one month, one thing, and then two months later you might like, actually, I discovered XYZ, but they learn to grow and make mistakes and be comfortable with that. Um, because they're watching you be comfortable with not being perfect or not having arrived. And there's a big value in that. So I wanna just say that to you. There's a, there's a big value in figuring it out and showing people what it looks like to be on the journey of figuring it out. So there's that, right?

So there's— and that's the other thing too, like, being in this season of, like, becoming a mother, a wife, it's— there is a literal transition. And it made me realize, like, I don't have— I don't have role models to look up to. Like, so when actually when you reach out to me, I was like, wow, like, I, I guess I'm longing for this, like, big sister or like someone to teach me because I'm like literally the only one who's teaching me right now is the Holy Spirit and it's— I'm like, Lord, can you send somebody? Because it's very isolating. It is, I guess to your point, there's some beauty in seeing someone figuring it out and not having it perfect.

And learning from the Holy Spirit directly instead of learning from church rules, which aren't bad. I'm just saying, I'm not negating what you're saying. I just want to recognize the sweetness in what you're saying. Because you don't know how many people say, well, I read the Bible all the time. And I have never said, well, the Holy Spirit told me. I wouldn't know he told me something if, you know, I mean, like, but we live in this noisy world, but also noisy Christian world. There's a podcast everywhere. There's a Bible study everywhere. There's a church. And again, it's not bad. It just means that that the space of quiet has also given you a gift. So I, I recognize the loneliness in that, and I recognize the, can somebody please help me? I don't want to diminish that. I just also recognize the gifted— the gift in that too.

Yes, I mean, you are right, because some, you know, some people will share their journey and like share— they're so glued to what the pastor is saying, and I'm like 'But what do you think about what the word says?' Like, 'What did the Holy Spirit tell you?' Like, 'What did he reveal to you versus what did this other person reveal?' If that makes any sense.

It totally does. It totally makes sense. You, you said you are a creative and you were creative before you went on this journey because, you know, you look like you're 12, so you look like you're 12. So the fact that you started this when you were 30, I'm just like, 'Wait, what? I thought you were like '11 then.

No.

What is your background? That— what was it when you got started and kind of, um, you know, in life and work? What is it? Is it that you're a video editor? Is it that you are like— what is the creative juice that is yours? What do you do versus what you can do? Because sometimes those are two different things, right?

Hmm. Okay. It's been so long, right? So back then, I, I was photographer and an actor. So I came, I came to New York, and as a photographer, I had already been doing it since I was 18. So 18 less 30, whatever, that's however long I was doing it.

Where are you originally from?

Oh, okay, so born and raised in Toronto. My dad's American from Chicago, my mom's Filipino. They both met in Toronto, so I was born in Toronto.

Okay. Um, yeah, raised there too.

Raised in Toronto. I came to New York, um, at 25.

Okay, 25. Yeah, so you're in New York and you're a photographer. Got it.

Yeah, and then because I had already done so much work in Canada, I was like, I don't want to start all over again. So I had to start all over again, and I was like a photographer's assistant, like interning, all these intern jobs, like basic minimum wage. And I was just like, I just, I don't have the bandwidth for this because I'm also like, I don't know, I felt entitled, 25, I don't know, I just felt like I'm too old to do this. So I came in as a photographer and I had already gone to theater school for classical theater, so I had a background in that. And so also when I came to New York, the jobs I was looking for was as a voiceover actor because that was the easiest thing I could do. I was not going to compete with these other kids for auditions and stuff. So voice work was an easy segue in for me, easier. And then photographer's assistant is where I started. And then my friend had suggested that I start a YouTube channel. She's like, you're good in front of the camera and you know how to operate a camera. And that's when I was like, ugh, why would I do that? Like YouTube? But I was so critical and judgmental of it that I started to look at myself and I started to examine like, why do you have those opinions? About that. And that's how the question came about, like, well, what would happen if you did put yourself on YouTube? Like, what would happen? And then I, I don't know, it just kind of came, the whole shameless thing. So that's the background. I came in as a photographer, actor, but then I also like do many things. I love playing dress-up. It's something I've always enjoyed doing. So whatever that all of that means is how I came here.

So now, now you're of course married and of course your whole life gets flipped upside down and you are in Sweden. So you have your child, your husband, and I don't know what community looks like for you, but it's not like you're going out with your girlfriends every Friday night. I'm assuming it sounds like you're kind of contained. So what does your time look like now apart from caring for your daughter, which is a whole job, but.

Yeah, um, I lean on daycare a lot. So as soon as she— I basically was home with her until 1, until she could start daycare. So when she started daycare at 1, um, I went back to uploading. I was still uploading YouTube videos back then, like maybe once a month as well. Um, what does— literally, I'm with the— oh my God, like, he's like detouring me. Like, I'd be reading the book and I'm like, what does that mean? I look it up, I'm like, what does that mean? And it's just like all these things. I feel like a detective. Like, I don't even know, I don't want to— I want to call it something else. A detective slash interpreter. Like, yeah, because God is— the word is so layered and complex. Like you'll have the basic, like, children's version. Like, when I watch the children's Bible—

which, by the way, that's not a bad idea. Like, reading a children's Bible— and there, there are like the baby Bibles. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about like one that's written like for a 4th or 5th grader to read. There is nothing wrong with reading that.

Just—

that's why I read children's books all the time, just to break things down for me. I love it.

Yeah, even I'd be watching her shows and I'm like, oh, is that why they're called Hebrews? Like, I didn't know. Um, so there's like, there is like that, you know, this level, and then you can just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper.

Well, the reason I was asking like, what are you doing now, is because I think one of the questions that's brewing in the back of my brain is the amount of time that, you know, you said I'm kind of like, I'm only uploading one video a month That's a change from the way I've done things in the past, but I am like winning over here with like diving deep into the word. I don't, may not have anything to, to show for it, for lack of a better way to say it. But one of the biggest things that women will say when they're in a season of, um, motherhood and shifting, what does it look like for me to be engaged in my life every day is the time that they have to be in the word. And so, um, what does your time look like? So, you you know, you, if you're leaning on daycare and you have your days free to a certain degree, how are you spending your days and where is, where is your time going to work? I don't even know if that's what you call all of your stuff, but, um, you know, work, where is your time going to home? Where is your time going for these deep dives with 203s in the Bible and all that? Like, how are you kind of segmenting your, your life right now?

Okay, so mornings— so this morning actually, I'll just— I had planned to wake up at 5:30, but then my dog 3 times wanted out. So the first time I was frustrated, I was like, okay, go out. The second time was like, maybe— so first time was 12 AM, the second time was 2 AM, the third time was 4 AM. I'm like, okay, Holy Spirit, I'm up. Okay, I'm up. And so I'm up at 4, and I'm just like So I'll be in the Word for maybe an hour, an hour and a half, reading and praying. And so that's my morning. I usually spend an hour at the— an hour in the morning and then in the evenings. So I try to start and end my day with the Word, um, depending on the season. When I was writing this book, I was I want to say I was in the word like every 3 hours, like every other hour. Um, so after that, I'll drop my daughter off at daycare, or her, um, my husband will. Then I'll work. So I'll work 9:10 till 4, and then, okay, once 4 is around, when she's home I'm done. I can't work. She won't let me until she's in bed. Then I can go back into the word if she lets me, because sometimes she's like, "Mommy, don't leave me." Is work primarily your work?

Are you doing stuff for other people, or is it your channel, your website, your book? You know what I mean?

Yeah, it's still— I'm working for me. I don't have any other job. So while I was writing the book. I consider that my work even though I'm not getting paid while I'm writing it. Um, but no, I don't do anything else but, uh, work. Now, the amount of time and all of that— yeah, I'm still in the season of transition. It takes time. Yeah. And I think that's been a very humbling place to be also, to go from a season of like, oh, we're just— we out here harvesting, harvesting, harvesting. We're was. And I— the, the—

what do you mean by that, harvesting?

It was just like abundance, abund— like financial outpouring. Like, I was just— but here's the interesting part we haven't dove into yet. I married a younger man, and I had this— this is like a whole other podcast now. I'm gonna segue.

Okay, let's, let's, let's, let's hold on. How much younger? How many years younger?

12 years. 12 years younger.

Yeah, the way you said that, I was like, that's not 2 or 3. She meant substantially. Okay, go ahead.

So, okay, so check this. 12 years older, uh, like already established in my career in Los Angeles. And what made Max unique and special is I had been dating— I dated like the Christian, um, all these other guys. And then I met him, and he was not intimidated by what I was doing. In fact, he was very like, 'I can help you.' And so I never had that in my life. I've never had, um, someone who wasn't family or a friend, like a straight man, say, 'I want to help you. I want to help you build.' And so we went into this dynamic of Max being a friend and serving me, and we married in that dynamic. And then motherhood, it's just like, it kind of like turns. It's like God was— God is using us to do— he's gonna glorify, he's gonna get his glory out of all of this because now he's toppled me because I, I could no longer wear the pants. In the relationship. Like, it's no longer me being the breadwinner because I literally can't, and I'm not in a season to work. So it's forced Max to grow, and it's also turned me into like, oh, I am supposed to be obedient to the Lord by being obedient to my husband who's younger.

That is the best.

Even that, like, I was just like— and because if you have this strife in a home and you have a child, now you're modeling behavior for your, your child. So my daughter is like— I mean, she's still developing and stuff, but I'm just like, what am I teaching her by like dominating my, my husband? And I— again, that's where the Holy Spirit was like, we're going to work on this. You go to that verse, you study this. And I have to literally meditate on certain things because now the question is, I love to pursue knowledge, I love learning, I love me a rabbit hole any day, but if that rabbit hole is going to compromise the happiness of my marriage, then I have to question, like, God wants obedience from me, and if I'm going to be obedient, I have to listen.

Wow, so many things. 1 Peter 3:1-2 that says, husbands, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. Which, that's an older translation, but this idea— I mean, well, first of all, yes, you're in a whole pickle in, in the best way. Um, fix that, I guess. Um, But you know, this idea that, uh, the late— you were talking about the layers of the Bible, but there's the layers of you. There's the layers of the fact that you're, that you're born again. Um, and the dichotomy of that marriage, it's the, it's the, it's the layer of the age. It's the layer of, um, your wiring. Like God obviously created you to be a go-getter. And so what does that look like in the context of a marriage, whether both parties are saved or not? So there's lots of layers of how does this apply? And I want to, you know, just reiterate to you before I give you a thought or two, um, the importance of, as you've already said many times, leaning on the Holy Spirit. Because there are general principles, but then there's specific application. Specific application with your husband on a certain issue in a certain season may be different than the application for another woman.

Yes.

So, you know, in the, in the Bible, because you've read the whole Bible, right? So, uh, you know, Zipporah usurped— if you look at it from a worldly angle, she usurped her husband's authority when she circumcised the son because Moses wasn't doing it. So if you look at that from the angle of, well, she didn't wait for him, he was supposed to do it, then she was wrong. But in reality, she was right in that situation. Or like Hebrew midwives deciding not to kill babies because they were going to disobey authority because it was the right thing. So you have to look at that. But, um, I want to read this in a different version because somebody who doesn't like this verse or may have never heard this verse, I want to read it in a more up-to-date. In the same way, you wives must accept the authority of your husbands. Then even if some refuse to obey the good news, your godly lives will speak to them without any words. They will be won over by observing your pure and reverent life— lives. So the example I'm going to steal from my dad that he always gives is two cars can be on the road and a, a Volkswagen Beetle could be in the right-hand lane, but a Mack truck could be coming up the like, you know, onto the freeway.

Yeah.

Okay, just because the Mack truck is bigger, just because the Mack truck has more power, just because the Mack truck could, could decimate the Beetle, the Beetle still has the right of way. And the way to look at authority and reverence is that where does my husband— the better word I feel like is yielding because sometimes in our cultural connotations, obedience means like, whatever you say, I have to do it. When in reality, the job of a wife is to help her husband. And sometimes helping your husband means I'm sharing things with you that you don't know. I'm, you know, the age difference is what we're talking about here, but sometimes just in life, in wisdom and experience, wives have information the husbands don't have. And so It, of course, it gets tangled if they're leading and guiding in a direction that you just don't agree with. And at that point, then it's what's the issue, you know, and what's the level of the issue here? Because what is the cost of obedience? Because sometimes the cost is preference and sometimes the cost is timing. And sometimes the cost is, I understand that the way you want to lead me is maybe not what I think the Lord wants to do, but that does not mean that every cost is a, I'm not going to yield. And so, um, so for, for example, in parenting, my husband and I, we are very different people. We have different approaches to parenting. There are times when I kind of, like someone else might say, she put her foot down. I wouldn't say that, but I would, I would say very firmly, I would say, I'm happy to do whatever it is that you want to do here. However, for the record, I just want to make sure I'm I'm sharing something with you for your consideration. Half of my battle is not in what I'm saying or in whether or not I'm willing to yield. It's in how I say it. And it's in my approach. That is my wording, my language, the tone of voice, my body posture, my nonverbal communication. Does it all communicate to my husband, I yield to you, even if I have a very strong Mack truck-like opinion? Am I willing to yield? And is he aware that I'm willing to yield? And then when we get in front of the kids or whatever the issue is, is it clear to the kids? Yeah, no, I, because they can look at us and they know the difference. You know, they know the difference depending on the issue. But do they see that I'm 100% supportive of whatever it is that he's saying? And they, and they do, you know, and it doesn't mean I don't make mistakes. I think there's so many things that you can be tangled up in, in there, but I think Here's what— here's the thing I want you to know, and I know you know it, but I want to say it again to encourage you and for other women who may be listening and thinking the same thing, married or not.

Mhm.

If you are wholeheartedly committed with your whole life, I want to do your will, I want to make you happy, I want to please you, I want to obey your word, I want to understand your word, I want to be led and guide I want to be led and to have the Holy Spirit guide me. And when I am clear on what you say, I want to do it. I don't just want to be a hearer of the word. I want to be a doer of the word. I want you to show me your glory. I want to see you like David saw you. I want to be a woman after God's own heart like Abraham. I want you to walk with me as you would a friend. This is what I want, and I'm willing to invest myself in discovering who you are. He makes those things clear. Clear. So not to negate discipleship and not to negate the teaching of the word, but also so many people are so worried that they're not going to get it right. You know, like God doesn't know we're made of clay and that we need shaping. And so I just want to encourage you that yes, learn, listen, but also He expects us to go through this journey and to need to be taught, and that's okay.

Yeah, yeah, she learning, girl. She doing a whole lot of learning. But it's actually been really good because, like you quoted, um, I, I forget in the other verse, but it's the unbelieving husband will be sanctified by the believing wife. There's so many scriptures that I, I like pray and meditate on. Because I, I do know, like, I am the closest example, and it's not— I'm not going to win him over by twisting his arm or, you know, being cold or putting my foot down. And so even for me, I'm learning that those qualities that served me as an entrepreneur, as the reason, you know, part of why I got to where I got to— yes, God, but also like I was, I was a bull.

I was so like, yes, ambitious, go, go.

And, and now in this season of motherhood and being able to pause and reflect, I'm like, man, I mean, I did marry a great man because he serves me. He's been serving me, and now I'm in a season to, to support him because he's now started his own business. So It's been very humbling. And so I will have my ideas and plans, and then the Lord is like, ah, ah, ah, I said I'm doing a new thing. Ah, ah, ah, I said remember not the former things. Because I literally don't know what I'm doing, so every step I take is a step of faith. I didn't know how to write a book. The Holy Spirit did that. I'm like, I don't know how to design. I literally did not know how to design a book. I have a creative background.

But it's cute.

I interviewed all these graphic designers, but with the time thing, I'm just like, okay, I guess I'm doing it myself. I don't know what I'm doing. Holy Spirit. So it's, it's been, it's been the journey. Here we are.

Here's the thing. No, no, no, but here's the thing. I've, I've repeated it before, I'm going to repeat it again. You said, I'm— I don't really know what I'm doing here, but I'm like going deep into spiritual things. And just like everything else that grows, there is work underneath the surface, right? Yes. That, that, and the roots have to be established and then they have to keep growing.

Mm-hmm.

But we see the tree, but nobody pays attention to the roots. And I just wanna affirm that your root building, um, in the dark where you even can't see it necessarily always. Is establishing you. It's establishing a legacy of faith that you can pass along to your daughter. It's establishing sanctification in you so that it can be pervasive through your home. It's establishing the change— changes that need to happen in you so that God's will can be done in your life. And so you can impact the people around you. And yes, you are the light. And that's a lot of pressure. I mean, frankly, I mean, you're talking about all the things with Um, you know, like with your, with your, with the book and I don't really know what I'm doing, but also, you know, in the season of figuring out your identity and your mom bod and breastfeeding and sleep, because sleep is a whole thing and discovering and rediscovering yourself and who are you now in the midst of that, you're discovering who you are in Christ. You're discovering what it looks like to be a wife that is a good wife to your husband. You're discovering still how to live in another culture and navigate The differences in language, there's a lot going on. But what that tells me is that the tree is going to be massive. So when I look at your, you know, you know, when people come to you and they're like, okay, okay, I've just stumbled upon, you know, Shameless Maya on YouTube. And what is this girl talking about where she's got, you know, over a million followers? And then they look at your recent things and then they go back and they're like, wait, there's been some things that have gone on. The, the way was made for you based on your wiring, your design, and opportunities taken to create a big tree that didn't necessarily have enough or enough of the right roots. And so in order to establish support and balance what has already been given, the roots are being restructured.. And that's an underground work. You know what I mean? It's my, my daughter was redoing a house she just moved into and she had a certain budget to redo it. And then they got in there and realized that the foundation needed work. So the whole project had to be put on hold because they had to go in and do the thing. And it was expensive and it screwed up the budget that she had for the things that people would see above ground. But there was no moving forward unless they paused to take care care of that.

Yes.

And nobody would say there was something wrong with doing that. Everybody would say, yes, pause and do the work. And I would say there's nothing wrong with you, with the work that you're doing, with the struggles that you're having, with the questions that you have. There's nothing wrong with it. In fact, there's everything right with it.

Yeah. And I have to, you know, there— the enemy like to remind you of things and stuff. But I do know ultimately I'm like, oh, you're gonna get the glory, Lord. Like, you gonna shine, and I will testify to what you did. Um, but it's, it's still like, yeah, there's still like a level of, um, you're stepping out on— I'm stepping out on faith. I don't know. But I do know once, like, the fact that I even finished the book, I was just like, what? And then I was— and then Max was reading it, he's like, this is I didn't expect your book to be good. I didn't expect your first book to be good. I did not expect this. And so I do know God is working and refining me. And it's literally just like, I will reveal each step as you need. Because sometimes I'm like, okay, so what is the huge overarching thing? And it's like, yeah, you can have that with you, but also I need you to do this. So it's literally like one step in front of the other. For me.

Well, I think that you started that way, and I think that God is not changing anything. Because when you started, you were like, I don't know, I'm a photographer. Somebody told me to try this, I decided to try it. And one step at a time, looking back from the outside looking in, people are like, well, how did you do that? Well, the story is not changing. It's just, the place is changing. The pace may change. Um, the surroundings may change. The understanding may be different, but he's still just saying, girl, you've done everything you've done so far. One step at a time. So I would say, thank you for starting Shameless. Thank you for continuing to be shameless and showing all of us that regardless of where we are in life and what we're learning, that living out loud shamelessly can be a gift to others. So, amen. Thanks for letting me get to know you and poke around. It's been fun. Yeah, thank you for having me.

And y'all, awesome.

Go to shamelessmaya.com and get her book. If you are a mother who doesn't know who she is, or if you know a mother who is like, oh my gosh, let me give her a gift for the first couple of years of her child's life, you can just go to shamelessmaya.com and find out more information of grabbing that book and enjoying it or giving it to someone who will. Thanks for joining me, Maya.

Thank you, Chrystal Hurst.