Showing Up As Yourself with Tabitha Brown

Well, y'all, I don't know how this happened. I do know how that happened. I do know how this happened. What had happened was Tabitha Brown has been on my wish list for a couple of years. I've talked about this. I have told my, uh, my audience about it. Y'all have heard me talk about it. I told my team about it. And one of the girls in the inner circle, um, a couple of times on Tab's Instagram would tag me and she would say, she's talking about this, you should, you should, she kept pushing me. Well, Tab released a book, y'all probably already know this, Feeding the Soul. And when she came to Dallas, that member of the inner circle bought a ticket for me to go. She said, she's in your city, go take your shot. So Priscilla and I waited in line because we were willing to wait in line. And then someone in line said, do y'all know Priscilla Shire and her sister are in line?, and we got a chance to come in after waiting for about an hour. We got a chance to come in and meet Miss Brown, Miss Tab, Tab, Auntie Tab, all the names we give her. And y'all, Tab is a delight. She's a delight to see online. She's a delight to know as she tells you her story in her book, and she was a delight to meet in person. And I have the delight of having her with me today. So welcome, Tab, to my show.

Oh my goodness, thank you, thank you so much. And I didn't know I was on the wish list.

Oh my, for a while. In fact, one of the girls who used to work with me before the blowup told me, I think you need to have Tabitha Brown on your podcast. And so I was kind of watching, and then of course when everybody else found out about you, I was like, dang it, I should have reached out before. Oh wow, it was great, it was great. Listen, we are having so much fun, and I say collectively, we are having so much fun just watching you walk in your season, all the seasons that were your seasons that led up to this season that we get to witness. It is a delight. I think I speak for many other people when we say we are along for the ride with you. So seeing you succeed and flourish and good things come your way, um, it's just a treat. I— we feel like— I feel like I'm with you. So thanks for bringing us along. Um, I wanted to ask you this first, just let's start here. I know that you've said that, um, everything changed for you when you became— started becoming, um, walking in you, becoming yourself. What does that even mean? What does that mean, changed, or you did differently, or you relaxed into— what does that mean?

Well, you know, um, it, it firstly It means for a long time I didn't show up as Taya, right? I showed up as someone I thought the world wanted to see, right? I would, uh, whether I was in corporate America or in entertainment, I was always trying to fit in and make everybody else comfortable, make everybody else like me, um, make them want me, especially in entertainment. And so that would be conforming and code-switching and covering my ass, wearing my hair one way, dressing one way, just trying to be right for others. And I realized that's not freedom, right? That's not freedom. And I also realized that I was being so disrespectful to God. Listen, because what that meant to me was that I thought he didn't do a good enough job on me that I had to transform and be somebody else.

Amen.

But the moment that I said, you know what, God, I'm gonna be whoever you created me to be, I'ma just be Tam, and I'ma only live my life the way you want me to live it, who you created me to be, that's, that's who I'm gonna be. So every day I started taking off those layers. I still take them off now, you know, and I feel like he honored that. It was like he said, finally you trust me.

Yeah, he's like, I was waiting on you, I was waiting on you, ma'am.

Exactly. And in doing that, when I just started showing up as me, honey, all the doors began to open. All the doors began to open just from Tab being Tab.

And now, did you know— did you know what Tab being Tab meant and you were intentionally stuffing it, or did you— are you becoming aware even now of what it means? So did you know and did you just hide it under a bushel, or are you kind of discovering? You know, I know so many people don't even know what it is to be themselves. They're so used to practicing. So I'm curious if you knew and stuffed, or if you didn't know and you are still in the process of discovery.

I knew because I knew when I was home I would, I would go all day and work and do things, and by the time I got home, I was exhausted because he was holding it together tight, right? Because you're trying to do all this, honey. It's, it's tiring to put a costume on every day.

It sure is.

And it's like zipping this up, going into work, going to auditions, going to set, going to events, trying to be, you know. And then you get home and it's like, oh Lord. And I also knew because when I'm with my family, when I'm with my daddy, when I'm— you know what I'm saying? I was just Taya. And my husband used to say to me all the time, won't you just be you? You know, because he would help me sometimes with auditions and he'd be reading with me. He was like, why you— why you use that voice? Why don't you just— just be you? And I'm like, they don't want that. That ain't what the people want. I gotta— I gotta give them what they want, you know? And, uh, I told the story before, when I was working, you know, my 9 to 5, my daddy called one day, called the office, and I answered the phone. And he said, uh, may I speak to Tabitha Brown? I said, oh, Daddy, it's me. Like, you know, I had to get quiet. It's me, Daddy. He said, oh, girl, I didn't know that was you, honey. Uh, I said, yeah, I'm at work. But of course I knew, you know, I was, I was trying to survive and become something else. But in, you know, reality, all I needed to do was just become me.

That's so good. Yeah, that's so good. And I love how you said, I know how I was at home. You know, that gives something so practical for someone else who may say, how do I know what the real me is? When, when you are the most comfortable and the least conscious of what other people around you think. And that, that should be, that should be when you're home.

That's right. And, and I also know that, like, you know, when I get tired, when I used to be out, you sound a little country when you tired, don't you? Because I, I would be exhausted, so it'd be hard to kind of keep up. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Uh, but not no more. This is the tab they gonna get no matter what. This who show up.

Well, 23 years is what I know, that it's been a journey of over 2 decades of you finding your way, um, to, to here. You haven't— you know, it's not an overnight thing. You have been working on you, your craft, and your desire to succeed in these spaces for a long time. And that's part of why we enjoy watching, because we know that. We know that that's a part of that story. But, you know, when you think about the parts along the journey where you were thinking about quitting or wondering, you know, it had been so long, um, what kept you going?

Oh, so many little things, right? The voice that I hear inside, uh, and I talk about this in my book, the voice that woke me up one morning, you know, and, uh, told me this is not I planned for you, right? Uh, my mama and the dreams that— and the vision she's told me that God showed her, those little reminders. Yeah. Um, all those things kept me going. And, and, and this may sound crazy, but I remember so many times when I lived in Greensboro, right, when I was, you know, back home in North Carolina, but we were living in Greensboro, I would go to like, uh, drive-throughs, or, you know, you'd be in the mall, and people would stop me and be like, are you the lady from, from that show? And I'd be like, uh, no, honey, I work at APAC customer service, like this show, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like, like this lady on the, uh, children's show on Disney. And I would say no, but, but I would just hear a whisper of God saying, yes, they see your destiny. They—

you look like where you're going. That's the thing.

Yeah, you look like—

yeah, you're going.

So those little things kept me going, and also the burning desire inside of me I've just always had this desire to entertain, to be like in the light. It's just always something. I love acting. I love making people laugh. I love making people cry. I love making people feel something. And so if I don't do that, I don't feel well, right? If I go too long without it, I start not to feel well. So I knew it was something that was calling for me, and I just wanted to answer it.

I love that.

Yeah.

Now, you have had so many things, I'm sure, that you've been able to check off of your list, your dreams and your desires that have been fueled by your passions and by the voice in your ear, by your mother's dreams for you, by the people who in your life— your husband, your children, your friends— who've been encouraging you to keep going. And I know that you're not done But what does it look like for you now to update your list? Like, you know, what— how do you— when so many things have opened, so many doors have opened, how do you think you keep dreaming, um, when dreams have, have come and are coming true?

Well, you know, the great thing is that a lot of the things that are happening now, I never dreamed, right? I never dreamed those things. And so those, uh, are like surprises for me, right? And because of that, that's one of the things that keeps me going, because it's like God says, honey, it's more than what we can imagine.

That's right, that's right, right?

It's more than what we can imagine. So I just keep on pursuing. I, I wake up every day and I expect the unexpected. That's, that's my motto— expect the unexpected to have, honey— because we just never know. But I feel like if we're here every day that we wake up, we still got work to do. We still have dreams to dream. And I'm just getting started, honey. I, I love the idea of, you know, coming up with new things and, uh, discover new things about myself. We're changing every day, right? And so with change every day, also new dreams come about. So I don't feel like I've made it, and I feel like I'm just getting in the groove, girl. I gotta keep on.

But I think that's so important. What's— I think it's so important, and I say this all the time, God always, always dreams bigger dreams than we do for ourselves. But when we agree with the things we do know— with you, all of those years agreeing with the passions that he put in you and with the dreams that didn't go away and with, um, you know, doing all the hard things, you were agreeing with the dreams he did give you an inside look to, which then leaves him free to then do more things than you can, like you said, even imagine, exceedingly above and beyond anything that you can ask or even think. And so, um, I know that that gives hope to somebody because some people, and I know you know this, they don't have dreams and they say, well, maybe something's wrong with me. And I think just showing up to what you know to do leaves God free to do the things you don't need to know anything about. And I think that that's very freeing for someone to hear. I absolutely love, love and loved, have loved seeing you, um, intentionally bring your daughter along for the ride. Not just because, not just because she's your daughter and you want her to be there with you, but I see you intentionally, um, mentoring her, discipling her, guiding her, positioning her. Um, I know you had a good mom, and I know that you know what it is for a mom to breathe life into her daughter's soul, and I see you doing that very intentionally. Um, I, I'm just curious, um, when you think about the specific things, like not just that your mom loved you and that she was, you know, believed in you, but specifically, what did your mom do to shape your outlook? What did she do to encourage you in your gifting? Um, and how that is impacting what you're intentionally doing for your daughter too.

Oh honey, you know, uh, my mom was so, so very special, right? And I often think about, you know, understanding that as much as she was my mom, um, she was an angel to me, right? I, I, I always think about the fact that yes, as mothers we are chosen to give life to these children, right? But we don't own them. We don't own them. They're not ours. And the one thing that my mother always did was let me fly, honey. I would come up with the, the ideas of, Mom, I want to go over here to, you know, I want to go to Miami. I'm gonna go down here to go to school. And then that didn't work out. I'm gonna go to Chicago. That didn't work. I'm gonna go to LA. That didn't work out. And she would always say, go, go and see. That's the only way you're gonna know. Go and see. She gave me permission to be crazy in my thoughts, to dream as big as I wanted, and, uh, encourage that, right? And she would always say you know, I didn't get to do a lot of the things that I dreamt of doing, so don't you ever make that same mistake. You know, she would tell me the things that she did that prevented her, and so she would try to encourage me not to go down that road so that it wouldn't make it hard for me to dream. And so in doing that, just giving you the permission to be and to be free to dream, uh, I, I I figured with my daughter, if I could do that and just keep multiplying it, right? Because the thing about, about my daughter is I named her Choice so that she can know she was always empowered within to make her own decisions, right? You make your own choices. Your life is your choice, right? And so in doing so, it has really worked. Like, she, honey, She is a free spirit. She is going to be strong-minded in whatever she is thinking or feeling, and I support her, right? I support her having her own life experience. And when she told me in high school— because she didn't really care for school, like high school just was, you know, it was not a good time for her— and so when she told me she didn't want to go to college, and I was like, okay, you know, I support that. Well, what do you want to do? And she said, I want to model. And I said, all right, you know, and I'm not a model, but I'm in entertainment. So I knew the only way for me to help her in this avenue is to put her on the platform.

That is crazy.

So that people can get to see her. So I told her, I said, well, you know, when she graduated, I was like, when I go do events, I want you to travel with me so people can, you know, see her. I said, but we're gonna start doing this, uh, show, Very Good Mondays, every Monday, and that way people will start to see you. And that will, you know, help you build your brand. And what you do with that is your business, right? And she took that, she ran with it. Like, I'm so, so proud of her. And I tell her often, you know, I don't get in her business on— I let her, you know, explore business for herself. And when she has questions, or if I see something, it's like, okay, let me help you here. I help her, but I don't overstep. I let her learn on her own. I let her figure her things out, but she knows that Mama's always right there, right?

How do you— how do you balance that with the freedom to make choices and make mistakes, with the desire to guide, um, not so much direct, but to give wisdom where they may not ask for it or may not even know to ask for How do you balance that part of the, of the mama job, right?

Well, you know, I've, I've done my job in raising her, and I have to trust that I did that, right? My daddy always said you got to trust that you've done your job. So now I'm always going to be mama by default. I don't have to reinforce that I'm mama. She know I'm mama. Now I get to be friend, right? Now I get to have real conversations without any agenda, just woman to woman. She's 20, right? She's gonna be 21. And so there's no judgment, there's no, um, there's, there's nothing to fear on my end or hers, right? So I can have a conversation that I feel needs to be had, uh, and sometimes she'll just come to me, right?

So we're talking about your relationship with your young adult, adult daughter. This is not 3-year-old Choice does whatever she wants to when, whenever she wants to, because I think, you know, people need to understand the difference of, um, you know, and even when they're younger, you can give them freedom to, you know, choose what they wear and that kind of thing, but there's a different kind of parenting at 5 than when they're 15 or when they're 20.

Absolutely. Yeah, listen, the, the 15, honey, she almost didn't make it.

Listen, okay, it was gonna be her or me. That's what I would say to my daughter.

My daughter's 30.

Listen, my daughter is 30, and I thought, I thought we, we, I, I thought I knew what I was doing, and apparently you were somebody else. I don't know who— where did my daughter go, right?

Yeah, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Okay. Yep. But all of that, all of those moments prepared us for the 20-year-old conversation.

That's right.

Now we can laugh about those other things, like, girl, you know, honey, mama about had to kill you one day. You know, we, we can laugh about those things now, but it's a trust that is built. Yeah, right. There's a trust that is built, and it's okay, right? And what I, what I love about, uh, my daughter is she also can, can get me together. She, like, you know how you want your children to be the better version of you, right?

You always want to get better.

And so I can be having a conversation about something that, you know, I'm thinking about, and she can be like, uh-uh, Mama, that ain't— no. And, and break something down for me, and I'd be like, oh, get Mommy together, girl, thank you, right? Because I have taught her well.

Yeah.

But, and also, I can't take credit for everything because she's also her own human. That's cool. Who is discovering life on her own as well. And so it is just a relationship, and not— I think taking the, the titles off of it so that you can actually have those Conversations.

Yeah, yeah, that's so good. Now, you— I read somewhere that you, um, currently— I don't know how long you have done it or how long you will do it, but your son, are you homeschooling him right now?

No. So during the pandemic, he was homeschooled like everybody else.

Okay, okay, gotcha. Because I didn't know if that tied in at all to what you were saying about the school connection at all, but okay.

Oh yes, he go to school, honey. Uh, he did the homeschool like everybody else did. You know, he was sitting here for a year, and then— and when they opened them doors, honey, we was up there first. Like, y'all, y'all letting them in? Where they gonna sign up at? Where, where we gotta put them?

Um, are you naturally a joyful person? I know you are a joyful person. Are you naturally that way?

Yes, I always have been, honey. Always have been. Always have been. Uh, my husband always— because we're so— we balance each other out because he's very much so not a naturally joyful person. He's very just flat, like, you know, when you see him, people like, he gotta— you don't know what he thinking. He poker face, right? Um, and even if he's happy, you won't— you don't really know it.

You're not gonna get the full throttle version of that, right?

Right. But I just, you know, I have always been a a happy person. You know, my daddy, he said I've always been that way, even when I was little. I just, you know, it feels good to, to smile and be joyful. Take a lot of energy, honey, to be anything else for me.

Well, you know, one of the things I think many of us have learned from you is what joy looks like, even whether it's natural or whether it's not. When your joy is challenged, I can only imagine with the amount of people that now know who you are that have opinions about what you do um, the amount of criticism, challenges, opinions that come your way, and whether— however you ingest them or don't ingest them is not my point and not my question, uh, or not my statement. I think what we have learned from you though is what joy and a smile, even in the face of a solid clapback, what that looks like, and that you can— you can say what needs to be said with grace and love and clarity and confidence and no hesitation and still get your point across without trading your joy. Um, I'm just curious about that though. I'm curious if you have always been able to carry that joy with you in the face of criticism and challenges. Was that a learned skill, how to be so kind and loving and joyful and smiling even when you need to read somebody the riot act? I'm just curious.

You know, uh, Tab had a whole nother life before, okay? Um, I'd be like, uh, your grace and mercy brought me through, honey.

Listen, all of us do.

But, um, I have always tried to see the good in people. Yeah. And I've always, uh, tried to work really hard on not reacting out of emotion because nothing ever is accomplished that way. And so Yes, I, I get, you know, I've definitely been one of those people who can say, oh honey, I'd have been mad. And I do, you know, get upset sometimes. Nowhere in comparison how I used to though. Yeah. Uh, there's something about when you go through some really tough times, right? And for me, I went through some really dark times and death and um, it's— it does something to you, at least for me.

It does.

And it just changed me. And I just decided, you know, it takes too much for me to be nasty to somebody. And also, what good is it, right? What good is that?

Yeah.

Uh, the thing that I feel that we all need and lack the most of is love. And I feel that that is my assignment, to love and spread love. Uh, doesn't mean that I don't have bad days or that I don't get upset. I just really don't feed into it. And most times, the only people that can really upset me is the people that I know and love, like my husband. He know how to get under my skin, you know. My children, like immediate family, know how to hurt me or get to me, you know what I'm saying. But people who don't know Tam It ain't my business to get upset with you when I know good and well you don't know me. Honey, God bless you. That ain't my business, so I can't waste my time on it. But yeah, I've never really been like one of those, you know, some people say a hothead or nothing like that. I ain't never— that's never been me.

Yeah.

However, uh, don't take my kindness for weakness.

Listen, listen, listen.

Honey, she ain't, she ain't, she ain't a weak woman, okay? Don't take it for weakness, baby.

Listen, you and Chance, um, it's also been fun. I mean, in general, I keep saying it's been fun to watch because you basically have put yourselves on our devices, on our computers, on our iPads, and let us watch you mom your kids, you mom your dogs, your wife your husband, you cook your food, you know, just all of that. But, um, you know, you all's relationship is, is great. I marriage is what it is, and you take time and you go through those seasons. Um, and I know you've talked freely and a lot about how you have supported each other, you know, in, in the dreams. It was so fun to watch the retirement party that you threw for, for him and to see, um, you know, the, the, the surprise on his face with all the things you had embedded in that celebration for him. If you were to say something right now to someone who is sitting there going, well, that looks nice. Like, I'm glad that they were able to, you know, support each other's dreams and work through the hard stuff. And their situation looks nothing like that, assuming, you know, the normal healthy. We're not talking about horrible situations or of abuse, anything like that. Just, it's just flat, you know what I'm saying? What advice would you give, um, um, specifically the women who are listening, what advice would you give them about what they can do to pour into their marriage? Not that it's a one-sided street, but just if you were just going to talk to the women, what would you— what would you say?

Well, for me, first and foremost, never compare. Never compare, right? Because you don't know what the last 23 years of my marriage has looked like on the inside. Here on the outside, right? Yeah. Um, but show up for you first. Show up for you first so that you can be the best version of you. You can be the best wife. Um, you know how to love yourself so that he knows how to love you, right? But also that teaches you how to listen better, how to communicate better, how to show up for each other better, because you know, we got together. We— me and my husband, we grew up in our relationship. We 19, you know, we both— he 43 now, I'm 42. And we grew up in this thing. And in the early years, honey, I didn't know how to, uh, A, listen and not ask questions, right? I wanted to fix everything. Well, what's wrong with you? You know, and I had to get to a place where Sometimes, girl, you don't need to say nothing. You just need to, to be quiet for a little bit and observe, right? So that you know what he actually needs. But what I realized was I couldn't do that because I didn't know what I needed. And when I started having to get to know Taya and spending time with me, I was like, oh, I need this. For me, then I knew how to wait and show up and give him what he needed. But it all started with me.

Now, you know, some people are listening to that and they get confused because they hear showing up for yourself, knowing how to love yourself, that equates to them as selfishness. Now, you know, as far as what we can see, and again, we're all looking from the outside in, but you're a very giving, thoughtful person. So what is the difference between I know how to love me, I know what I need, I know how to take care of me, and being selfish? And I think so many people are running from being selfish that they go— they run too far, and they're so selfless that they're actually not caring for themselves at all. They have nothing to give. So what— how does somebody know the difference? How do you know the difference?

Well, sometimes we got to understand that there's not a big difference. And that there's nothing wrong with being selfish with your time. Okay, selfish is also being— is giving self-care, right? There's a stigma to the word selfish, right? Sometimes you got to be like, you know what, right now I got to be a little selfish with my time. I need it for me right now. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? I don't think there's anything wrong with that, right? Because if I don't, if I don't, I might show up empty and not give you the best of me, right? I might show up half full and not give you the best of me. I want to show up all right for you. I want to show up good for you. So sometimes that may require me to be just a little selfish with my time. For myself. And nothing's wrong with that.

We know self-care— we know self-care— I'm sorry to interrupt you. We know self-care for you, of course, you're taking care of your body. We know that. Watching what you eat, we watch you working out in the gym. But apart from those obvious things, what fills you? Like, when you're not actively doing anything to care for your physical body, when you are selfish with your time for you, what does that mean you're doing besides sleeping well, eating well, Working out?

Well, when I say self, being selfish, like with your time, right? Uh, whether that be spending some time with yourself alone, whether you are— honey, for Tabitha, I, I take a day shopping. Okay, let me, let me go, let me go do some shopping. Let me go, you know, out for a little walk, just clear my head. Uh, let me have some alone time. Spa day, whatever the thing may be. Even with— so this is another thing that I had to learn for my— for myself. When you have friends, right, you have your girlfriends. I have a girlfriend who never ever took a girls trip. She never ever—

been with her husband for over 20 years, and she never had a, like, a girls trip because she was too busy working or she felt guilty leaving home or—

exactly.

Okay, right.

And thinking that something was wrong with that because you're married— nothing is wrong with that. That is saying, you know what, I need some, some girl time, right? That's okay for me to go on a little trip or have a day with my girls, or you know what I'm saying. So it's little things, it's whatever it means to you that feels you, that makes you feel good, right? And you're not hurting yourself or anyone else. House. You go and you have your time with yourself, get to know you. Honey, I love plays, I love museums. My husband, he's— that's not his thing, right? He'll go to appease me, but it's not right. Yeah, so what's wrong with me going with my, my best friend and go— or go by myself and do something that I love to do? And then there's no uh, resentment, or there's nothing inside of me that's like, dang, I wish we did that. I don't need you to do it because I like it.

Were you always like that, like even in marriage, free to do it by yourself, or did you have to work your way into that freedom?

Girl, no, I won't always like that, girl. That's what I just told you, girl. I had to get— that's why I can tell the people now, honey, you better get to know you because let me tell you something. The reason I can tell women now to show up for you is because I didn't for so long.

There you go.

And listen, I love my husband, I love my children, but I put them before me for a long time, and I was exhausted, right? But I also realized I won't give them the best version of mommy. I wasn't giving them the best version of the wife. Because I was showing up empty. I was giving them a little bit, uh, whatever I could. And by the time I got back to me, honey, I ain't have nothing to give to him. I have nothing to give me, right? And so that wasn't fair to me. And that also, you know, it took a toll for a while on our relationship with me and my husband, and vice versa, and him as well, because we were both doing the same thing. Trying to please each other. And then it was like, dang, when the last time I did something for me? Mm-hmm. And I want you to do that now as a wife. I want him to do things for himself. Like, babe, you need to go, go with your boys. Y'all need to go out and do some, you know, have y'all some me time. And vice versa, because you grow up and you, your mind is open and you realize like, wait a minute, out now. I would love to be all that he needs in the world But honey, no, we are still man and woman that have other, you know, things that they want to do that we don't have in common.

Yeah.

So, and it's all right.

It's all right. You are, um, in, you know, a season where there are lots of things that you can do that fuel you. And I'm sure lots of people that are pulling at you, like me, to do all the things. Um, you got your restaurant, Kale My Name. Of course you've got Feeding the Soul Because It's My Business, this awesome book here. Um, and, you know, appearances and interviews and then the acting. I mean, it's just full. When you talk about taking care of you, um, how are you setting boundaries right now? Like, how— what does that look like for you to stay grounded and with all the goodness that's coming, to not even in the goodness run away too far from yourself?

Well, first of all, I'm free, right? I'm free. So Uh, that means I, I only am Tab, which means I don't do nothing I don't want to do.

What? But what about the hard stuff in life and the sacrifices and the, and the things you have to do that you don't feel?

I didn't do all them, honey. Them days is gone. If I want to do it, girl, if it does not serve me, I'm not doing it, right? But first and foremost is me and then my family. That's my foundation. Right? Um, of course God is, is, is the, the first, but then me, family, foundation— everything else comes after that. And I love, love the power of no.

Listen, it's an anointing. I believe that no is anointing, honey, and a complete sentence.

And a complete sentence. I have no problem with it. Uh, I tell people in a pair of seconds, honey, oh yeah, no, that's not gonna work for me, thank you. No, I'm good, honey, no thank you. Because I know who I am and I just know what I'm not gonna do.

I—

yeah, so balance is easy for me in that way because I do a lot and I do a lot of things that I love, right? So I'm not gonna, um allow myself to get burnt out. I'm not going to allow myself to do things that don't feel well. I'm not going to allow myself to do anything that does not serve me. And I'm not gonna do anything that, uh, you know, I'ma pray first before I answer any email, before I answer any requests. And if God tell me no, even though I think I want to do it, honey, I ain't doing it.

How do you know when he's saying no? How— what is— what does it mean to know when God tells you no? How do you know?

Well, for me— and I know I'm a little different than most people because I hear differently. Yes. Um, and I always have to tell people that because some people be like, Natalia, how you know? What's God sound like? And I'd be like, listen, I'm a little different. This has been my whole life, right? I know that I have a gift, others do not. Um, but there's a, there's a difference between me wanting to do something and him telling me to do it, right? There's a feeling that I get, but also there's a discomfort when I say I want to do something but it doesn't feel all the way right. Yeah, I'm like, uh, yeah, you don't want me to do this, do you? All right, you know. Yeah. And even if I try to push past it, he, he will throw the roadblock up There will be something that he— it's almost like he said, I'm gonna give you one more try. I'm gonna warn you one more time. If you do it, you on your own. You're gonna have to— you're gonna have to go through it. But I'm telling you now, I don't want you to do that. And that's how I know. If it ain't smooth sailing, if it ain't— because this is one thing I've learned in this season of my life. When God is in control, baby, it's a lot of work, but it works out so nice. It works out so nice, honey. I had an idea in May. I was sitting in Chicago at Kill My Name in Chicago, and I told my girlfriend, I would love to open one of these in LA. Not 5 minutes later, the owner came to the table, was like, oh, so good to see you again. I'm actually visiting LA. I'm hoping one day I'll be able to open one there. 5 minutes, I said, I'll be your partner. And honey, I opened up a whole Kill My Name here in LA. So if we're obedient, it just works out so well. It just works out so well.

Well, I love how you obviously bring your relationship with God into the public square. You don't apologize, you don't hide. And of course, why would you? He's been too good for you to— well, for you to pretend like, you know. And you don't apologize or, um, hesitate in that, um, One is why— I'm curious, why do you think so many of us— and I'm gonna say us, people who, who love God and who, you know, but we get into the spaces where just in the world we're at, everybody's not trying to have that conversation— why do you think people who love God hesitate when they're in public squares to bring that faith with them? Because he's been good to all of us.

And, and have. Okay, I think that, and I know personally, it's because of the system that has been put in place to make you fear losing your job, right? You can't bring religion here. School, you can't bring religion here, right? Um, work. I think that people are afraid of the repercussion of what they may lose. It's a fear. Right? And I had to come to a place of understanding that, honey, God got me all the way together one day. He said, now you, uh—

in one day? He got you together in one day?

And he got me together one day, girl. He said, now are you depending on that check? Are you depending on me? Listen, he said, because you can do the check. You can, you can, you can get it. You can get a check here too, and that's all you're gonna get.

And that's all you're gonna get.

But what else do you want? And I— listen, I want it all. He said I can have all the desires of my heart, honey, and I want all of them, okay? I want all that he said I can have here. And I'm not ashamed to say where my help comes from. I just— listen, if I lose a job or if somebody don't want to work with me because of my love of God, honey, then baby, I don't want to work with you. That ain't where I'm supposed to be, no way. Right? But I think that people are— they just live in fear because the system has told them they can't, right? But it's also just as a Black woman, right? It's the same thing of conforming because the system told us that we weren't enough just as we are. You can't wear your natural hair to work, it's not professional. Who said Who said I couldn't wear braids? Who said that Donna can't have to be in a whole afro?

That Donna can't be free, right?

She on breakation right now, honey. She on a little breakation. But normally, you know, she is free to roam about the cabin. And so, uh, I think it's just a matter of when you get these limitations put on you and you start to believe them wholeheartedly, and, and more than believe them, you fear them. And that's why Because I mean, people tell me all the time, Taya, girl, I wish I could just go to work and just be free like you. And I say, well, you know, if you start showing up to your interview free, then you don't have to hide it when you get the job. Yeah, right. And so a lot of times we'll go into an interview and we try to be on our best behavior and we try to be, you know, who we ain't. And then we get the job, right? And then we go to work and then something, something happened and you got to show them the real you, and they're like, oh my God, who is this person? Well, you should have just showed them who you was in your interview, so ain't nobody surprised when you just show up.

And if the job's for you, then it's for you.

Yeah. Listen, my mama taught me this. She said, can't nothing stop your destiny. Can't nothing stop what God has planned, not even death. Not even death can stop that. So what are you fearing, honey? Ain't nothing to fear. What's for you is going to happen.

Well, you mentioned death. I want to talk about grief. I know, um, you talk freely and openly about losing your mom and the hard road that was to travel and, um, and how that has impacted how you live. We share that. I lost my own mom 2 years ago, and I'd love to talk to you about what it looks like, what it has looked like for you to— and I'm going to say, I'm going to use the word manage, that may not be the right word, but to walk with, uh, learn how to hold hands with the grief that I believe that you experience acutely when someone you love goes on, but that you learn to walk with for the rest of your life. What wisdom do you have to share for people, so many people right now who are walking with loss and grief, loss of not just of people, a lot of things, jobs, you know, being distant from loved ones. But specifically as it relates to death, what have you learned about living with grief that, um, you think would be helpful and encouraging for other people who are in that spot right now acutely to know?

Well, uh, you know, for me it's a little bit different only because I am a very odd person, I guess, when it comes to death. Uh, my mother and I, um, talked about it all the time, and I have— she made sure I was comfortable with death, right? She made sure I understood it at a very young age. Uh, you know, very early on, I— from the time I can remember, maybe 4 or 5, I've always dreamt of people who have passed on. And so death has always kind of surrounded me. And the one thing that I can tell you is that we have to allow ourselves to feel right. And grieving is not, um, there's no time frame on it. It's forever when we lose someone.

Forever. That is correct.

It's forever. That piece of your heart would never be there. It, once it is gone, it's gone, and that piece will be missing forever. And there are times where it feels all right, and then there's times where you're triggered and that it hurts, right? Like now it's the holiday season and memories surround us, and sometimes we laugh at a memory and then sometimes we cry, right? Because we miss, we miss our mothers or our fathers or our loved ones, and we have to allow ourselves to feel And it's okay, right? It's okay. But the one thing that I know is that we can't get stuck in it because that's not what they would want. And we keep them alive by talking about them. Don't you know, um, some people run from it because they say it's too painful, but I always say run to it, right? Run to those memories, talk about them. You know, some people tell me when they meet me, they say, girl, I feel like I know your mom. Yeah, you talk about it's still here, you know, and that's me keeping her very much so alive. And I love that, right? Uh, it doesn't mean that I don't still have days where I cry because I miss her so much. And, you know, it's been 14 years, but it's— some days feels like yesterday. Yeah, right. But allow yourself to feel and talk to them. Just where you are, right? Some days, and I'll be sitting here in my office and I just have a whole conversation with my mom. I got, you know, pictures of her on my desk, but I literally, um, I keep her very much so alive, very much so alive. But I always allow myself to feel and have my moment, and I encourage others to do the same.

That's so good. Run to the grief, feel it, and run to the grief. Um, if you could have only one meal, only one out of all the things that you know how to fix, cook, create, make us think it ain't vegan, whatever it is, what's your one favorite? If I had to name one meal, what is that? Girl, one, one.

Oh Lord Jesus, I don't know. And I love food so much. Um, I don't even know, girl. I, I mean, so much is coming to my head. You know, I love a taco. I love a jackfruit taco.

Yep. Just so you know, Priscilla did that. That was one of the first things she tried, and she said, oh my gosh, it is good. She said, I don't even know, I didn't even know what a jackfruit was, but I was following along and I did it just what she said, just the way she said. And she said it might change my life.

Very good. I mean, I do, I just, you know, I love tacos and I love a good fresh guacamole. Uh, but yeah, I guess, excuse me, I guess I could say that. But I, listen, I love food. I mean, it might be tacos today and tomorrow it could be lasagna, honey.

You know, okay, but we'll take tacos for today. We'll take tacos.

Okay, tacos on this Good Friday.

Okay, on this Good Friday, one more, uh, quick question for you. Sister Circle, you mentioned your friends. I mean, this is the Sister Circle, inner circle. I believe that all women, we got to have our— we have to have our girls, and you have to know how to serve those girls in the different seasons of your life so they can serve you too. Um, what has it looked like for you to keep to keep friendship, to pour into friendship, to, to maintain friendship? Because if they're good and they're long, they're work too. How have you been able to keep your friends close and keep those relationships healthy?

Well, you know, communication, right? I'm so blessed, you know. I still have my best friends from kindergarten, right? My best friend from kindergarten, name is Toy Galloway, and she was my first best friend. She's still my friend. She lives in North Carolina. Uh, my second best friend, her name was Peaches, or it is Peaches, and she became my best friend in 7th grade, and we're still best friends today. And then of course, as adults now here in LA, I, you know, met adult girlfriends who are now like my sisters and best friends. And I think it's just a matter of showing up for each other, right? Um, and, and That means simply sometimes a phone call to check in. Uh, when we can see each other, do so, but to never take it personal when they're living their life.

Listen, don't take it personal.

And we are out here living our life, honey. So if y'all don't talk for about, you know, a couple weeks or a month, it's all right. It's all right. Because guess what? When we pick that phone up It's like we ain't missed a day.

Yes. Yeah, that's so good.

But respect each other's time and respect each other's life. That's how we keep it strong.

That's good counsel. I got my— my time is running up. I have this last thing, this last thing that I want to ask you. Of course, again, your book is called Feeding the Soul, and you know, you, uh, have won your way to our hearts telling us how we can eat better, take care of our tummies, but also take care of our lives by making sure that we love our lives. And you've not apologized, not one second, for doing that. But there are so many ways, I know, and you talk about so many of them in your book, what it has looked like for you to learn the lessons, how to feed your soul. If there is one thing, and again, it's the one thing, because we know you can't make nobody else's day bad if your day is not— we know that. We know. We know that you have to mind your business. We know that you gotta, you know, we know these things you've been teaching us. And I mean, we, we got, we, we got the t-shirts to prove it. We know what Auntie Tab would say. We know what she would say, uh, believing it's gonna happen, not giving up on your dreams, all of these things, these positive messages that you put into the world and that you live each and every day. But if my soul is empty today, if someone is listening and they are, this is just one more interview— and one more opportunity they have had to listen to you. They've been listening to you. They got it. If they don't hear you say nothing else, if their soul is empty and they know it, and they're listening and they're saying, I hear what she's saying and I've been watching her, but I'm still running on E, and their soul needs nourishment. What is the one thing that you would say if you don't do anything else today? I need you to do this, think this, absorb this, take this in, what would that one thing be?

That first step, right? You're still here, which means you still have work to do, and it will come, right? So sometimes, uh, we, we feel empty and we feel purposeless, but if you're still here, God still has purpose for you. And even if you don't know what that is, it will come to you. But you're here because you still have an assignment. Until you— until you take that last breath and you leave, you still have work to do. So know that your life has meaning. Know that even in this season, uh, of stillness, you still have purpose. So hold on to knowing that and keep your eyes open. He reveals all things. We just have to be open.

I know you said, as far as your new show Tab Time, that God told you your assignment was to put love into the world and to start with the children. That, that was not to only do that, but to certainly take that opportunity to embed it and deliver it there. And I just want you to know, I know you know it, but just to adorn your road, the road you walk, with a few flowers. Uh, it is very clear to me and to many of us what your assignment is. It's very clear that you know what your assignment is, and it's also very clear that you are walking in that assignment. And every door that God brings to you, that he brings to you and that he opens for you, you walk through that boldly because you are aware of your assignment. And thank you for living out your assignment, because that assignment to bring more love into the world and to show us what it looks like for you to love your life, love your husband love your children, love your friends, and love those opportunities and people that God brings into your path. It is teaching us how to do the same. You are in action living in your purpose, and you are teaching us how to do that too. So thank you so much.

Thank you for that. Thank you so much for that. I appreciate that.