Tara-Leigh Cobble Reveals the MISSING Piece to Bible Study

So if you listen to podcasts, you probably have not, not received some kind of notification, recommendation, or whisper, maybe from a friend, about a podcast by my guest today. So Tara-Leigh Cobble is the host of the very popular Bible Recap podcast. And most of the people that I know have heard of it. And I just thought, you know what, it might be worth our time to dive into a not only very successful podcast, but the person who is stewarding that podcast, why they're doing it, and kind of who they are. So I am excited to invite and welcome Ms. Tara-Leigh Cobble to the show today. Thanks, Ms. Tara-Leigh, for joining me. Thank you.

I'm happy to be here. It's so nice to be face to face with you right now.

Yeah, you too. And then, you know, also it's not every day that I get to interview somebody that's that shares the city with me. So that's fun to know that you're not too far away. Okay, so The Bible Recap. I mean, for those, we're going to assume that there are people who are not listening, who have not heard of it, and this is kind of a 101 to introduce them to it. And hopefully they will listen, because no matter how many podcasts you listen to, you are not overestimating your capacity to add listening to the Bible to that. So, um, what led you to create The Bible Recap and this ministry to people in helping them to read and understand their Bible?

Oh, so I don't have a memory in my life without Jesus. Um, I became a Christian at a very young age, and my family owns a Christian bookstore. I went to private Christian school. I went into full-time ministry right out of college. And despite all that, I still really struggled to read and understand and love the word of God. I tried year after year to start the Bible reading plans that are like—

did you fall off in Leviticus? That's what I want to know. Did you fall off in Leviticus?

I made it to Leviticus, um, and I jokingly referred to myself as a Genesis scholar because I was like, I've read Genesis 200 times and nothing else. Yeah. Um, and so what I found was that it wasn't that I had— and most people don't have a gap in desire. They don't have a gap in time because you can read the whole Bible in a year in 12 minutes a day. Like, that is— we all have 12 minutes.

Yeah.

Yeah. And, uh, but for me, the problem was I had an understanding, a comprehension problem. So when I would read, I was just accumulating confusion. Like, why am I reading this? Why is this in here? What does this mean? Doesn't this feel like it kind of contradicts this other thing I read last week in the Bible? Like, how does this all fit together? Who are these people? And also in the Old Testament, you're going, which of these laws are we supposed to be following? Which of these still? And if I don't have to follow these, why not? And I was just accumulating confusion. And so when someone walked me through scripture and answered my questions along the way, it was the first time that I ever actually read the Bible. And that was my journey to beginning to understand it and love it.. And so I wanted to offer that to other people. On— after I had read through the Bible 10 times, um, I decided I want to help walk other people through this because I feel like that's the key to actually reading it and understanding it and loving it, is have someone hold your hand day by day. So we do a 365-day read through the Bible plan. Some people, it takes them longer than a year. That's okay. Um, it's 365 days, not one year. And we do a 365-day plan where you do your 12 minutes of reading, and then you come listen to me tell you what you just read for 8 minutes. It's an 8-minute podcast, and I explain the story of scripture, point to the character of God in each day's reading. I try to resolve those things that may seem contradictory. I try to answer any questions the reader might have, and the goal is to help people read, understand, and love God's word.

Love that. That's so great. Well, you know, in today's day and age, there are so many times where people, um, are challenged about why reading the Bible is important. You know, depending on where you grew up, the region of the country that you're in, um, the Bible is a historical book, you know, is it even correct? Does it contradict itself? You know, that's outdated. So when you think about scripture reading, and if you're explaining that to somebody, Why would you say scripture reading is so important and understanding it is important, particularly when there may be questions that are, you know, that people have because of what they, what they've heard?

Right. Yeah. I think you've presented what is a very real question that people have and a very real problem we encounter. And here's how I engage with that question. I am not a married person. I'm single. I've never been married.. But from what I understand, it's really important when your spouse talks to listen to what they have to say and to understand them and to care about it and to engage in conversation with them. And the Bible is the word of God. And this is the eternal God of the universe who loves you, created you with a purpose, wants you to know who he is, wants you to understand his heart and the things he cares about. And how to thrive in the world he created and put you into. And so when I view it as this is a relationship, this is an eternal relationship that I'm in with someone who knows me better than anyone else, who understands every scenario that I'm in, who wants to be known by me, that invites me into a conversation with Kemet where I get to hear what he has to say about who he is. So I think where we kind of fell off in Christendom is when we started to refer to the Bible as the roadmap to life or God's instruction manual. And it became a to-do list because when scripture is a to-do list and I go to it and I read and I'm like, well, why do I have to do that? Well, I was supposed to do that and I failed. Whenever it's just a bunch of application points, it's very easy to get disconnected from it, and it's very easy to not want to engage with it. And so that's why with The Bible Recap, we don't end each day's reading with an application point. We end each day's reading with something we call the God Shot. That's your snapshot of God and his character from that day's reading. So your God Shot— when people like me who've grown up in church read the Bible, we tend to go, okay, my takeaway for today is that Uh, I need to be nice to my kids. Um, I need to be more patient with my kids. And it becomes like, what are we supposed to do? And the story of scripture is that yes, God does have ways for us to live, but the beauty of the gospel is that the finished work of Christ is what we rest our hopes on. That's what we're banking it all on, that I'm going to put my best efforts forward, and sometimes the, the Spirit's gonna empower me to succeed, and sometimes I am going to fail miserably. And the good news is the gospel is my salvation, my security, and my relationship with God does not rest on my best efforts. It rests on Christ's finished work. And so every day we're looking for the character and the person of God so that when you read scripture, you come away going, oh, God is so patient and kind toward his children. God has been so patient toward me. God has been so generous to me when I have fallen, when I've rebelled against him, and we are sustained by the beauty of that. And the Spirit empowers that in our lives. So we begin to naturally live that out in our lives, as opposed to just trying to like pull ourselves up by our so-called bootstraps, muscle through and become the best version of yourself. Um, it is really an opportunity to behold God and the beauty of who he is. So that's what we invite people into every day and where we often easily Well-meaning Christians miss the way by just trying to like put together a, a, you know, a 10-step program.

Well, I was gonna ask you, you know, what do you feel like people lose out on by not making Bible reading a priority? But what it sounds like I hear you saying is that where we might come thinking, tell me what to do, we miss out on knowing more about who he is. Like just having that intimate fellowship and relationship with a God who wants to be known. Right.

And a God who, who refers to himself as the God of peace. And, you know, we might— I've just been— the reason I say that is because I was just, I was thinking about this last night. I was studying this last night a little bit. We, in a world of, of chaos and struggle and trial and heartbreak, we try to tack God onto our life. Um, and it ends up feeling like more of a burden. Um, it ends up feeling like, oh, this thing I'm supposed to do is I'm supposed to read my Bible. But what I found is when I actually engage with God's word, the thing I miss out on if I don't actually engage with him as a, as a person, because he is a person, a capital P person, you know, the, the three persons of God, Father, Son, and Spirit, is I miss out on that, the peace that comes from knowing him, the joy that comes from knowing him. The delight of learning new things about this God that, man, to be honest, for a long time, I thought I really understood it all. I'm like, yeah, I've been to church at least 3 times a week for most of my upbringing and read all these books, and I feel like I've got it figured out. And there's so much more new to discover about him. And it just delights me and it sets my heart at ease and it invites me into so much joy. So what am I missing out on if I don't read the Bible? Man, joy, peace, delight, hope, uh, intimacy with God. And those are things that I love being able to— have you ever seen somebody like love God in a way that you wish you did? Um, that has happened to me so many times, and I have found that for most people, the way that they get there is by spending more time with God. And so what happens doing The Bible Recap is it— At first it's like, okay, I'm going to try this. And then they start seeing it like come alive to them. And we have people— this is our 6th year, and we have people who really thought they were just going to do it for 1 year, and they've been with us now for 6 years, and they're like, man, I'm doing this till I'm in the ground because this is, this is bringing me so much joy and delight to get to engage with God daily. So that's, that's my hope for people.

That's so great. So I mean, beyond, hey, join me for The Bible Recap, which is the obvious answer to this question, what would you say to the person who is having a hard time getting started? Like they just, whether they failed over and over again, where they, you know, they don't know what to pick, the right version, you know, all the things that kind of get, keep us from getting going. What would you tell that person?

Hey, that's a very relatable problem. I mean, have you had that happen, Chrystal Hurst? Have you ever felt like you're having a hard time getting going in the word, or you're like, 100%. Yeah, so we've all been there. So if you're feeling that, reader, watcher, listener, um, you're not alone. This is a very natural human problem. Doesn't mean you're a bad person or a bad Christian or that God loves you any less. Um, and what I would say is there are some handholds that will help you get started. Um, which version of scripture is the best to read? You know, like, the great thing is if you have the Bible app, you can go through and survey a bunch of different options. You can flip versions. If you don't like to read, that's a stumbling block for a lot of people. A thing that keeps them from moving forward is they're like, I can't, I don't even, I don't even like to read. Well, the good news is the Bible app will read it to you for free. You can pick your accent like it is. You have so many options available. And guess what? That's not cheating. Because for the bulk of human history, that is how people engaged with the word of God.

That's right.

People couldn't afford Bibles. Gutenberg hadn't invented the printing press, and people had scripture read to them. And so let the Bible app read it to you. I'm an auditory learner. So there are some handholds like that— finding a good version, finding how you learn best. And also, I think you know, having somebody help you, whether it's me or somebody, some other Bible teacher that you love, finding something that helps you understand what you're reading. Because I really think comprehension is the, the key we're missing in a lot of this process. A lot of us feel like, I'm destined to not understand it, I'm just not smart enough, I've never been to seminary. Guess what? I haven't been to seminary either. I am a layperson just like you. I never even went to Bible college. Like, I don't even have that as a, as a framework. And so you can understand the Bible, find some handholds, get some traction. Um, October 1st, we're about to start the New Testament. So we start over every year on the podcast. January 1st, we start the Old Testament. We hit the New Testament on October 1st. And for a lot of people, that handhold is an easier on-ramp for them. Find the handholds that are helpful to you. Don't shame yourself over where you are and where you struggle. Um, if you start a plan and you fall behind, I tell people, there's no such thing as being behind when you're in God's word. Every day that you are in God's word, you are right on time. Whether you do day 1, day 2, day 3, uh, or whether you do day 1 and then 5 days later you do day 2, you are doing day 2 at exactly the time God has for you. And he's gonna meet you in that space and show you something there. So don't let shame and perfectionism stop you from finding those handholds and getting to know God more.

What about when someone says, okay, I, I got started and whatever the case may be with discipline, let's just assume that the person is disciplined, but the issue is that, that it just seems boring or uninteresting to me. So what are we, what is your encouragement to that person?

Gosh, Chrystal, you're asking all the relatable questions, right? You're hitting me right where I live. I have been so bored by scripture. I have read the same page 3 times and been like, what did I just read? I don't even know. Like, my brain just zoned out. Um, one thing that's been helpful for me, I can only speak from my experience, but one thing that's been helpful for me is when I start reading this as a story about God and I'm looking for the— I'm looking for my God shot every day. I'm looking for the character and the person of God, that requires me to be actively engaged with it. There are days— there are a couple days in our reading plan that are all genealogy. And let me tell you, more than once on a genealogy day, if you do The Bible Recap, the podcast or the YouTube, you will find that a couple of those days I wind up in tears at the beauty of the person of God that I discovered By reading genealogies, like it's, and like there's a day, I think when we're in like Leviticus and it's like one of those boils and sores days that you're like, I'm not bored by this. I'm disgusted by this. This is gross to read.

Like, I don't need to read.

Um, and the character and the beauty of God shows up in those spaces. And so treating it like a treasure hunt for God. Changes the framework of how I engage with Scripture. And here, but here's the other thing that's important to remember, and I think this is vital. The Bible is not a book about me. It's for me, but it's not about me. And when I treat it as though it is some form of entertainment or some other media source that's supposed to like always emotionally engage me, that's not Scripture's job. Scripture's job is to reveal the person of God. And sometimes that information does engage with me emotionally and does capture my heart in ways that I didn't expect. But sometimes I'm stacking up information. I'm building my knowledge of the person and character of God, and every little bit of that matters. Every little bit of that matters. But we've got to train ourselves to stop thinking of scripture as a book about us or a book that's supposed to entertain us. And I think that has been really, really helpful for me in my journey because I struggle with both of those things.

It's almost like it reminds me of a conversation when you're having a conversation with someone and you want to be actively listening, but you can't actively listening as long as you're thinking about what you want to say. Um, and so you zone out and it would totally make sense that scripture would be boring if you're not actually actively listening to what he wants to say about himself. If you're only listening to what you want to hear about yourself. I know that, you know, looking at the Bible for what we can hear about him or learn about him is important, um, and I know that the daily, uh, the Bible Recap and, and it being delivered daily allows people to engage auditorily with hearing the scripture and understanding the scripture. But for studying scripture, what do you recommend, or what do you think is a good starting place for an approach to self-study? Because I know somebody probably heard you when you said, okay, I haven't been to seminary, I haven't been to Bible college, and they're like, but you also read through the Bible 10 times and you actually explain it. How does she know? Like, you know, and I think, you know, while so many of us know that there are so many tools that are available to us, for someone who doesn't know about tools, they're just like, how do I, how do I begin to dig deeper on my own?

Yeah, the— I have a couple tools that I love, and they may be different tools than you listeners out there might love, but I'll tell you what I love. Um, and, and what has been helpful for me is not trying to do this all at once. This has been— I'm gonna sidebar for a second here. The first time I ever read through the Bible, I really thought to myself, I need to understand it all, I need to understand it all, I need to— any question I have or any confusion that I have, I have to resolve that now. And it created this frustration and this tension in me because I couldn't get it all. And sometimes I would like go back and realize that I had misunderstood something I thought I'd fully comprehended. And I realized that what was under that was that I need to understand it all because I never want to have to read it again. I need to get all this first time and then I can check this box and move on. Bucket list item accomplished, right? That's not what a relationship is. Right? And a relationship, it's called daily bread. And so every day for the rest of your life, you can keep learning about God. So you don't have to comprehend, you don't have to like take all these things and do them all at once. Here's what I did. Every year I set a spiritual goal for myself. So a lot of people have New Year's resolutions. I, I do have some of those types of things, and I, but I also specifically lean into how am I going to get to know God better this year? How am I going to lean into, be actively engaged with my relationship with God and growing in that space. And, um, so one year my spiritual goal was I want to have a note on every page of my Bible. One year was I want to read through the entire ESV Study Bible. Another year I used the Faith Life Study Bible, which is now owned by like Biblia/Logos. Um, it's a an online study Bible that I love. It's probably my favorite study Bible, the Faithlife Study Bible. Um, I think they might have it in a print version now, but I used it free online. Um, I have also found Bible teachers, pastors that I find that their teaching really helps me love Jesus more and esteem him more highly in my life, and I learn more about scripture. They reveal things that I didn't learn, and they teach in a way that connects with me., and I will make it my goal to listen to one of their sermons every day, just like while I'm getting ready, while I'm washing dishes, while I'm walking or working out. I'm just listening to one of their sermons, and I'm, you know, learning new things. And so there are commentaries, there are study Bibles, there are, uh, when you hear the phrase commentary, sometimes you think that this is going to be like a heady language. They're often these big thick books, um, but there are some commentators that speak in really easy to understand language for lay people like me. There's a guy I just discovered in the past 6 months. I did not use him when I was building a Bible recap, but man, I wish I had found him before then. His name's David Guzik, and you can find his stuff online for free. And I— you— are you familiar? Why didn't you tell me about him, Crystal Hurst?

Blue— what is it? Blue Letter Bible. I— he's— he— him and Matthew Henry. I just dive into their stuff.

Matthew Henry used to be my go-to recommendation for like a good starter commentary, right? And when I music, I was like, this is just much more modern language, easier to comprehend, doesn't feel like Old English. And man, I love him. Um, so finding those handholds that fit the way your brain works, that fit the schedule that you have, that fit how God engages with your heart— those are things that I think are going to be helpful starting points for people. Um, I will say, I think The best way for me to study scripture, I'll say it that way. I think the best way for me to study scripture is chronologically, in the order of the story, the order that it happened. And so anybody who's struggling to understand scripture, if you can engage with it chronologically, either starting at the beginning of the New Testament or starting at the beginning of the Old Testament, I think that's going to help. And our Bibles aren't actually laid out in chronological order. Which makes it confusing. Um, they're laid out like a library, and so if you're reading in chronological order, you're going to be flipping back and forth a little bit. Um, you'll do that a lot in the Gospels where the stories are repeated and you're flipping back and forth. You know, you're in, uh, 3 Gospels a day sometimes reading the same story as it occurs in 3 different Gospels. Um, but I think that's been really helpful for me, and I think it's— I think a lot of people That's the case because that's how our brains work. We don't show up in the middle of the movie, watch 5 minutes, the next time we watch it, watch 5 minutes from, you know, an hour earlier, and like then the next day watch the ending, and the next day watch and try to piece it together and make sense of it. We watch it in order. And if we showed up 5 minutes in the middle of the story, we would not leave the theater, and we're just watching those 5 minutes in the middle, we would not leave the theater understanding the plot line, and we certainly wouldn't fall in love with the main character. Those storylines, the overarching metanarrative of scripture, is gonna not only engage our minds but engage our hearts. Jen Wilkin says, "The heart cannot love what the mind does not know." And that has really been the key to my understanding of scripture is like, uh, or my, my key to loving scripture for me has been understanding it. And I think chronology helps with that.

So one of the things, you know, I know that, you know, when you talked about people have the desire, you know, they, they have the time, but, you know, just understanding. Um, but one of the things that supports all three of those is community. And I am so looking forward to your answer to this question because I have heard about D-Groups lots of times. I have to be honest and tell you, I've never actually— no, no, no, that's not true. I did Google it one time, but then I just thought, I just need somebody to explain this to me. Like, well, you know, because everybody's got Many churches have small groups at their churches. People are used to getting the Bible studies from Lifeway, or, you know, you download your thing from Faith Gateway and you go through it. But D-Groups is kind of a thing unto itself a little bit. And I'm really looking forward to hearing you talk a little bit about the concept of D-Groups and what it is. I know that this is something that you lead, D-Groups International, but can you tell us what it is and kind of what makes it unique and different?

Yeah. So D-Group stands for Discipleship Group, and I started this in 2009, a full decade before I started The Bible Recap. And I studied it because I wanted a community of people to study the Bible with. It was when I had first started reading the Bible and I was learning all this new stuff, and I was like, I have to have people to talk about this with. And so I started it, like, just me and like 9 of my friends in a, in a like living room, and we would pick a Bible study and do that Bible study together. And then I found that one of the ways that I was getting to know these women better and engaging with them, and that we were not only building our relationship with the Lord but with each other, was I really worked hard to make sure this was not just a, a gossip circle that we all showed up and like talked about our lives, like We're going to focus on the word of God. And when we would do prayer requests, it started out being the kind of stuff where it's like, oh, my mom's, um, boss is having surgery this week. And so can we pray for her? Like, it was just very disconnected stuff. Or it was the gossip veiled as prayer requests, you know? Um, so I sort of set some parameters around this of this is about you and your heart. And one way that we are really going to grow in our relationship with the Lord is if we introduce this very biblical idea of confession of sin. This is something that we see in scripture. James 5:16, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed. When you do that, when you are vulnerable in that space with other people who love God and love you, it creates a deep, rich community.. And it also is one of the ways that the Lord works in and through us toward healing. And I wanna be healed from my sin patterns. I don't wanna be stuck in them. And I have found a lot of healing and freedom through having my people in D-Group pray alongside me with this. And so these are things that early on we started implementing in D-Group that kind of set it up. And then we also, um, implemented what we call a weekly challenge, which is our practical response to what we've learned that week so that we become doers of the word and not hearers only, like James says. And so we want to put the things we're learning into action. We don't want to look back 10 years from now and be in the same space spiritually that we were then. We want there to be growth and progress. And so we have those weekly challenges. We also do a service project together. Um, like we have our D-groups, we have D-groups that are, that meet in person Dgroups that meet online, Dgroups that meet as a part of church, um, Dgroups that meet on military bases. We have Dgroups, men's Dgroups, women's Dgroups, lots of options. And, um, they still find ways to serve together even when they are Dgroups that are like— one of our Dgroups is on 3 different continents. They meet online and, and they find ways to like— they're writing letters to people and serving in those ways. And, um, we Through the years, we have just found a way to build out other spiritual disciplines. And what we found is that community happens best not when community is the goal, but when community is the byproduct of being on mission together. And our mission is to know and love God more. And we build this really rich community with people that we don't look anything like. They're not in our tax bracket. Um, and we may not have the same hobbies., and we may not have the same histories, but when we are united under the umbrella of the gospel and unified by the power of the Spirit with our eyes fixed on the word, man, the unity and the relationships and the community that develops out of that is something I can't access with just people who look like me and live like me. And, you know, it's really beautiful what the Lord has been building in it.

So how do you— if D-Groups are like, if it can be based on people I know in my local area, how is it not? Like, how, how do you end up in a group with people who are on 3 different continents? You know what I'm saying? Like, how does that happen? People find, find new people.

That's a great question. So our D-Groups, I mean, it can, and I would never tell people don't join a D-Group with your friends, don't join a D-Group with your neighbors. Like those are things that I think are great and beautiful. Um, but what we do is we put them all on our website. And so if somebody in your area like types in their zip code and they find that your Dgroup is there, they like it. They're, these are open spaces that you can pop into. Now we do cap them at 12 members plus the leader because we think Jesus was on something with that, that size. Uh, and so when they get., you know, 8, 10 people, we're like, okay, maybe it's time for one of your members to go through new leader training, become a leader in your group, multiplies so that you can create space for new people. And online Dgroups, we have the schedule of when they meet and what time zone so that people can go, oh, well, that, this one's far away. Uh, it's in a different time zone, but that actually works when it's translated to my time zone. And I don't know these people, but I'm gonna connect with them.. And, um, it's just shockingly easy to connect to people who have a shared goal, even if their lives are different than yours.

That's right. That's so good. Yeah, that's so good. So The Bible Recap has been at the top of the charts, and there, there are, um, observations. People tell me that there have been times where you're right up there with the podcast of Taylor Swift's boyfriend. So there's that. Have you been surprised by the success of the podcast and, uh, whether you have or have not, what does that tell you about people's desire to read and know more about scripture?

It has been the— it's jarringly shocking to me. It's just, um, I don't— like, I don't, I don't keep track of the numbers a lot because, hey, I'm not a numbers person. I don't dream very big, um, and I love that. I love that I don't dream big. Because it's really an opportunity for the Lord to, A, keep my motives pure in what I'm doing, that I'm not trying to like plow over people to, to make something happen, and that I get to enjoy the ride, that I get to be delighted by everything along the way. Um, and it's really cool that he dreams bigger than I do. And so with D-Group, when I started that, I never thought it would be more than 9 people in a living room. I didn't have any idea that we'd have 450 leaders on 5 or 6 continents in, you know, a couple of languages and men's D-Groups. And I didn't anticipate any of that. I didn't anticipate that we would have church partnerships, that churches would use this curriculum as part of their home group options, you know. I didn't have the vision for that, but the Lord did. And with The Bible Recap, I had no idea. My prayer when I launched it was that 300 people would listen. That was my prayer.

Yeah.

And God was like, yes, and then some, you know. And I didn't know it was going to turn into a book or a YouTube or, um, a full-fledged arm of our ministry. We're now in— we have the Bible Recap in Spanish, we have it in American Sign Language, um, and just creating, uh, spaces for people to read, understand, and love God's word around the globe. And so, no idea. I was definitely surprised. And as far as like what that tells me about people and their desire to read the word of God, like, how incredible is that? Chrystal Hurst, you can turn on any social media channel, any news channel, and find a thousand things to be discouraged about every hour. You can find so much in the world that is truly dark and discouraging. And yet, and yet, the world is filled with people. I found out yesterday, I was in a meeting with YouVersion, um, a million plus people have signed up for the Bible Recap plan on YouVersion this year. This year, since, I mean, we're just in August right now.

Yeah. Yeah.

A million plus people in 2024. Those are individual souls who want to read God's word, who want to know God better. Like, and that's just my plan. There are so many plans on the Bible app. Like, how beautiful that in all of the darkness and all the despair and all the tragedy, that God is still drawing people near to him. Mhm. I love it. And I can't believe we get to do it. I can't believe that you and I get to talk about the word of God, and people are going to listen to this, and people are going to engage with scripture, and people are going to fall in love with God more, and you and I get to be a part of that. Like, that is the best thing of my life.

I talk a lot about dreaming, and I really believe that it's important to live with a clear dream in mind, but I've heard you. Many of you have told me, "I don't have a dream. I've lost my dream. I don't have time to dream." So the good news is, because I've heard you, I'm creating a space for you to dream with me. I want to invite you to my free Dream Builders Workshop. It's going to kick off the first Monday in December. That's December 2nd, and we'll spend a week together, a little bit every day dreaming. I'll be there to ask you the right questions.. And I'm going to give you space and time to come up with the answers that are good for you. For all the details, simply go to chrystalevanshurst.com/dream. You said you're not a big dreamer. That's not what you said. Those are not your words. What did you say? You said—

I don't dream big, I guess.

You don't dream big.

Right. As far as like, if I'm starting something, I'm not thinking this is going to be huge. I'm thinking like, I get to do this, I get to build this thing and watch what God does with it. But like, usually my ideas of what he's gonna do with it are very small. And so I am blown away when I hear things like a million people engaged with the reading plan. And when I'm blown away by it and I hear it, I'm like, this is incredible, God. Like, thank you. I prayed for 300, you know? Um, so.

Well, I'm just wondering, this is my wondering. My wondering though is you lead D-Groups, you cast vision, and you talk about The Bible Recap. I mean, you know, I've got these beautiful books on my desks, this one-year guide for The Bible Recap, and then, you know, we've got the entire Bible. I mean, so, but you lead. And so one of the things people always talk about for leaders is you know, cast vision? Do you feel like— like, what has happened in you? I guess the development of you reading God's word, understanding God's word, helping people understand God's word, but you're also leading organizations and leading teams, and there's development that's happened in you. And I guess that's what I'm curious about. What do you feel like God has done in you as a result of you being committed to the initial vision that he gave you?

That's a really insightful question. And the first thing that comes to mind is probably 12, maybe 15 years ago, I remember writing down in my journal, my pastor said, the best advice you can ever give anybody, but best advice you can ever take is listen to God and do what he says. And so listen to God and do what he says has become how I lead. And I don't always do it right. Um, I make, sometimes I make selfish decisions. Sometimes I have to apologize that I didn't handle things well. Um, but undergirding all of that is this regular reminder, listen to God and do what he says. And I'll be honest, a lot of what I feel like God tells me to do does not make a lot of sense. It just, there it is. I talked with my team about this a couple of days ago. There was, um, an organization that wanted me to speak about leadership. And I was like, anything I have to say to them is going to be disappointing. Because nothing that I do has that like, dream big, like we're gonna, like, it's just listen to God and do what he says. And most, most, if you talk to my team members, most of what we do, it actually, uh, goes against what traditional wisdom would tell you to do. So like, I work with almost all, like my team members are almost exclusively my friends. Like I've just hired my friends or people that God's like, you're gonna become friends with this person. And that is not, you know, conventional wisdom.

Right.

It's not. Um, and like a, a layperson, a non-seminarian starting a podcast with, I used a, an Amazon mic, um, that was $99. And I had, my studio was the Amazon box that the mic came in. I put the mic in the box.

It's a great way to start.

Right? And I had a volunteer audio editor and who, you know, worked full-time for a supermarket chain. And that was our team. It was me and her. And none of that makes sense. That is not a business plan. I don't— I'm, I'm bad at business, but I'm learning to get better by the work of the Spirit. At listening to God.

That's very good. I don't know that they would have been disappointed because sometimes the simple things are the things we need to hear. So we have a lot of women who are going to be listening to this who are single, and they are also leaders. So you have done a great job of being a person who sees the gift in singleness to do what God has called you to do. So what encouragement would you offer to our sisters who are single when it comes to living out the ministry that God has invited them to?

Oh man, I love single ladies. A lot of my team are single ladies. It's— I almost said that a few minutes ago. It's like a bunch of single ladies. There are men in our ministry as well, but like, um, it— there is, there is so much space for us right now, ladies and, and men, whoever's listening to this in whatever state of life you're in. But because I am single and I'm a female, I will speak of which I know. Um, I have a lot of discretionary time that I wouldn't have if I were married and had children. Those, those people would, would get my time in a way that they rightfully should. That would be my primary ministry. Husband, children, that would be where my discretionary time went. That is the wise way to live in that space. But because I don't have those things, I don't even have a pet. Um, I have a lot of discretionary time and I like to fill it with things that fill my heart with joy and that have eternal value. And so, um, I don't really have a work-life balance. I have this space where everything kind of flows.

Another thing that goes against conventional wisdom, but when you love what you do and you're— I'm with you on that. When you love what you do and you're called to it. It doesn't feel like you're working anyway. So who cares about balance, right?

And, and there are some parts of my job that it does feel like I'm working that are my least favorite. I'm an extrovert. So this is like the highlight of my day talking to you because now I've got to go edit by myself in a corner, you know. Um, but I have found that this time in life when you are single, and you have that discretionary time, the more you can fill it with eternal things of eternal value. Man, that is— it is not wasted time. It is, it is living fully in the space that you are in. And, you know, when, when the Israelites go into exile in Babylon and Jeremiah tells them to, like, make the most of it, pray for the place where you are. Create blessings where you are and thrive where you are. Like, you're gonna be there for 70 years. And so like, may God's— God's taking you there and he has a purpose and a plan for you there and leave better than you came and leave them better than you came. That's what I'm trying to do in this space of singleness. And I, I'm not promised a spouse. Like, I'm not even— I'll be honest, I'm not even looking for a spouse. I would love a spouse. But that is not— that used to be kind of a space that I really tried to focus in on and like, okay, we're gonna like, he's not just gonna show up at my door like the UPS. We gotta make this happen. We're gonna do the, all these things and like say yes to every day and say yes to every setup and like get on the apps and do all the things and put yourself out there. And it was just a bunch of wasted time in my experience. Um, a lot of people don't have that story, but that was my story. And so I, took notes, and I was like, that doesn't work well. I've tried all those things. Should not focus our time on that. I'm gonna go focus on— I gotta write 40 Bible studies. Like, that's what I'm doing for the next 9 years of my life. Like, we're writing, writing a Bible study every 3 months. We write the curriculum for D-Group, and we just decided that we're gonna be teaching through the whole Bible. And so we're doing a Bible study on, you know, we're going to be covering every book of the Bible. That's— I gotta— let's do that. That's what I'm going to be focusing on, you know. So, so that's— I don't know that that's encouraging to people out there.

No, no, no, I think it, I think it is because you're so committed and invested in the thing that not only we all should be doing, studying God's word, but in the role that you have in helping other people study God's word. You have joy, you're walking in your passion. And what I hear is even if someone is like, well, I don't know that I've found it. There's hope, I think, in saying, you know what, if I invest in whatever God is calling me to do, then he will fill my time with the overflow of my energy and joy that is committed and directed towards the thing that he has put in my hand, you know. And so I think that is encouraging, and it gives an invitation to people to say, okay, you know, I'm trying to make things happen. What happens if I look for what God is trying to do? And what if I try to do my part to make happen what he wants to happen. Maybe then my life will be full. I think it's a challenge and an invitation, but I think that it's great. I know that you have talked about the person who doesn't understand the Bible. One of the benefits for those who read it and do understand it, we understand this concept that there is freedom available to us in Christ. But I have found that there are, and even in my own personal experience during different seasons where it's not comprehension, it's attachment. Like I'm reading it and I'm still struggling in a certain area. And I'm thinking, okay, if I'm doing the Bible studies and I'm reading the word, I'm committed to prayer, but I am still struggling. So when you think about freedom in Christ and now thinking about more of the person who does read and who does understand, but they're struggling to experience, uh, or they think they're struggling to experience the abundant life that God promises and the freedom that should come in how we live in Christ. What would you say to that person?

Oh, that is a tough, that is a really hard place that I think is very relatable. Um, I have been there. I may be there again. We don't ever get past spaces of struggle in our life. Like the Apostle Paul saying, like, I don't do the things I want to do, I do the things I don't want to do. Who will deliver me from this body of death? You know? And then he says, thanks be to God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Like he, he is the one who delivers us and the freedom that comes in Christ. If we're talking about freedom, um, First of all, I think it's encouraging to remind ourselves of the truth of the gospel, that we are freed from the penalty of our sin. Jesus took penalty of our sin on the cross. And that means that if you are in Christ, if you are a believer in Jesus, then God has no wrath for you. There is none left for you. He is not mad at you. He is not punishing you. He is not coming out to get you. All of his wrath toward all of your sin was poured out on Christ on the cross. It is finished. You're free from the penalty of your sin. Getting free from the power of sin is another thing, you know, like that, that Christ has accomplished for us. Meaning, by the power of the Holy Spirit, we can overcome sin. Now, we're not going to do it perfectly. Like the Apostle Paul, we're going to fail and struggle and One thing that encourages me so much is, uh, with the Apostle Paul is when I read through scripture chronologically, you see that in his earlier letters he refers to himself as Paul, an apostle. And then he starts referring to himself as Paul, the least of the apostles. And then by the end of it, he's Paul, the chief of sinners, right? He is a saint. And yet he also still recognizes that he is still in the flesh. He is still struggling with sin. And so take heart. The man who wrote two-thirds of the New Testament, struggles in those spaces of freedom as well. Like, so we're freed from the penalty of sin, we're freed from the power of sin, but the presence of sin is still there. And that is a journey that we will always have in this life. You're not alone. You're not— God's not mad at you. You are not being punished. God is with you in those spaces of struggle. And in that, that space of darkness and feeling frustrated. So I don't know if, listener, I don't know if your struggle is with a particular sin issue that you are having trouble overcoming. If so, the word of God counsels you this way: pull it out of the dark and throw some light on it. Get it out of the dark. Tell somebody, confess your sin to one another and ask them to pray for you. That there might be healing. James 5:16 says that. And there is going to be— the enemy and your flesh are going to heap up shame for any area of unconfessed sin in your life. Walk in accountability with other people who know and love you and who know and love God. And that is how scripture promises we make progress in the struggle against sin. That's a, a, that's a promise in scripture. And so the presence of sin in our lives, it's always going to be a struggle, but there are ways scripture helps us to move through that struggle, not alone, in community, empowered by the Spirit and encouraged by the finished work of Christ.

So good. So very good. I know that we talked a little bit about your passion in the season that you're in, in life, being single and having discretionary time and, um, you know, This is a hard left turn, but I'm trying to connect the dots. You know, one of the things that people will say, particularly about Christians in general, especially if you're like, I read the Bible, I'm focused on doing what he says, is that we don't have fun. We don't have fun. So what I know about you is that you love to travel. And I know that while you have said here today that you enjoy your life and there is this balance that works for you between, you know, work and play. But when it comes to play, I'd love to talk a little bit about that because I think we do need to say as people who love Jesus, we have fun, we enjoy our lives, and in that, that we, you know, beyond having our Bible open, which is important, that we enjoy the world that we live in, that we enjoy and engage with the life that God has given us. So I'd love to know kind of what you enjoy about travel. How has travel changed you? How does travel help you live to help you to live a life you love?

Ah, I love people, and I love getting to know different people and cultures and foods and, um, seeing sights. And, um, I love— I have 3 times this summer, um, twice on work trips, once on vacation, I've been out of the country. And I have in the past 2 months, I think, been to, I don't know, 8, 9 countries. And that is, I realize, a luxury that many people don't have happen. Their work doesn't take them to other places, or they can't afford it, or they don't have time, or they, you know, have pets or plants or children that they have to attend to. Um, and so for me, leaning into that opportunity, um, brings it— it, you know, brings me alive a little bit. Like, I love getting on an airplane, you know. Where else do I get to take a nap in the sky?

Well, bring me a drink and some Biscoff cookies. Are you kidding?

Right? It's incredible. I'm like, this is amazing. And I get to wake up in a different place. This is the best time to be alive. And so I just, I find little joys in those things that I, I love it. Um, traveling, uh, really does awaken something in me, especially because I spend a lot of my days, I, I work alone, I live alone. Um, all my team is remote. And so I'm by myself a lot. So usually if I'm traveling, I'm getting to hang out with somebody, you know, somebody from my team is with me or my sister's with me. And that's a lot of fun for me. Um, and finding new adventures of things to do while I'm traveling is always fun. Like, is there, you know, traveling is all about climbing to the tops of things and looking down, you know, it's the tallest building, the tallest mountain, the whatever. There are these things in Europe called Rodelbahn, which are these, uh, they're like, you pay like $8 and it's this like roller coaster down the side of a mountain. That's just a— it's insane. You should— like Germany, Switzerland, you should do a Rodelbahn. Like, do you like heights?

I don't. I don't mind heights at all.

Okay, well, it is fun. You're at the top of this mountain riding this little open car down. Like, they didn't even have you sign a waiver. Like, they don't even know your name. It's, it's happening that I can just like slide down a mountain at 40 miles an hour in an open-top little piece of metal. I love it.

That's fun. That's fun. Well, listen, it has been a great pleasure getting to know you, and I know that obviously we want to make sure our listeners, um, tune in to The Bible Recap. And you mentioned that October 1st, the New Testament starts, and that's an easy on-ramp right into the rest of the Bible, starting with the Old Testament at the beginning of the year. But I do know there are a couple of other things coming up in November. Could you tell us a little bit about that?

So as I mentioned, we writing, uh, we've worked on Bible studies for every gospel so far— Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Um, and we have Knowing Jesus as Savior, which is our study on the Gospel of Luke. And then November 12th, we have a new TBR— TBR is our shorthand for The Bible Recap— a new TBR kids book coming out, TBR for kids. Um, we have a TBR kids devotional, which is for younger children, like ages— I, I, I think it's like ages 4 to 8, something like that, and like learning to read. And this one is more for kids who are reading to learn, so like ages 8 and up. Um, and it follows the same reading plan as the adult one. So that, that comes out this fall, and on November 12th. I'm super excited about that. I think it's going to be really helpful for families who love to do the Bible Recap together. To have this in their library. Awesome.

This is awesome. Well, it's been a pleasure getting to know you and having you let us know more about The Bible Recap, more about you, and more about why scripture is important and how we can engage with it better for ourselves individually and in community. So thank you so much, Tara-Leigh, for joining me, and it's been a pleasure to have you on the show.

Thank you, Chrystal Hurst. You're a delight.