Thana Hickman on Believing for Big Things

Hey there. Happy day after Thanksgiving. If you are just now joining me, this is actually round 2 of my introduction to a conversation that I wanted to have today. Normally I go live every Monday morning inside of my membership, The Inner Circle, and once a month on first Mondays, I go live everywhere. Um, and I wanna make sure I am live now. 'Cause why is this? There we go. There y'all are. Okay. So this is round 2 because I had some technical difficulty and hopefully it's all fixed now. But the bottom line is I'm here on a Friday after Thanksgiving, mainly because I want to make sure that this is a conversation you get to hear today. Um, because it's timely. The person is timely, the conversation is timely, and the topic is timely. Um, so I'll say what I said before in a shorter version for those who didn't hear it the first time or for the final recording. I am a single parent and I have been since I was 19. I was able to do well in my life. Um, a large part of that because I had support. While my parents did not save me from every challenge. In fact, they allowed some challenges specifically to make sure that I could build strength. They definitely supported. They made sure that my daughter had a safe place to go for daycare. She was in a young, in a woman's home when she was young. And, um, Gran, we love her to this day. Um, they made sure that, uh, her needs were taken care of. They made sure I could afford to take her to the doctor. Um, but they also made sure that in order for me to finish school, to get my degree, that I worked, that I, um, was involved in that process. And so both with support and also with allowing me to face challenges, they made sure I made it out of a very challenging season well, but they also allowed those challenges to build my strength. I'm aware that many women don't have that. They don't have support, or the challenges are not just there to strengthen them, they are actually breaking them. I realize that there are women who, um, because they have support, spend so much time in their lives just trying to get it together and actually trade a lot of their life to make sure that there's food on the table and that basic needs are met. So I wanted to just share a conversation with you with someone who I have come to know and watch her afar. We've had an opportunity to connect in person and up close as well, but most of the time I spend time watching her and, uh, and really in admiration of what she is burdened to do in the community and what God has honestly charged her with doing with her life. So I want to introduce you today to my friend, Miss Thawna Hickman, and I'm going to let her tell you a little bit more about herself. And I don't know why I'm getting the double screen, y'all. This is not my favorite day, but here's Thawna. Welcome Thawna to Coffee with Chrystal on a Friday, but not at coffee time. Oh my goodness. Hold on, let me make sure I'm turning this on. Okay, there we go. I should be able to hear you now. There we go. So, um, I just want you to know, y'all, I already told her before we jumped on here that, uh, I knew she'd be looking cute because she's always looking cute. And I thought about it for about 5 seconds, and then y'all, I was like, y'all know me, I'm not doing it. I get done up when I'm, when I'm ready. And most of the time when I do this, I'm not. So, Donna, you look beautiful.

Chrystal Hurst, I really have on a muumuu, if I'm being honest. So, okay. At least it's not showing everything.

My kind of girl.

It's okay. It's really a whole, it's a whole muumuu I have on. It's okay. We good.

Well, um, I know that it's the Friday after Thanksgiving and I know that you cooked, uh, yesterday like I did. And today is the day for doing nothing.

Yeah.

So, um, now I know you got children, and so did they help with the cooking effort? I know they helped with the cleanup effort. Did they help with the cooking effort?

Yes, my oldest daughter is the one that's normally in the kitchen helping me, so she was in the kitchen all day yesterday with me. And if I'm being honest, she also was the cleanup person as well. I don't know what happened with those, with the younger two, like they missed something. You know, it's a gap between her and them. So those younger two miss something when it comes to kitchen duties. So, um, they just think everybody's supposed to clean up after them, even though they're both in their 20s too. So, um, yeah, it's, it's just my oldest daughter that steps in to help with everything.

Well, if you're like me, the ones that run from the kitchen, I have a decision to make, and it is I want to be fair and everybody I should help. But I also don't always want to spend the effort chasing them down, making them do it, or making them do it right.

Right, right, right. So you just do it yourself.

You just do it yourself.

Yeah, yeah. And put the one to work that's willing to do it.

That's willing to do it.

Or they just work the mess out of her.

That's right, that's right. Because I'm— there are some dishes I'm like, no, don't wash those. Y'all don't touch those because I know y'all won't care about those, and I care about them.

Well, they will get broken. They, you know, your glasses, your beautiful plates, you don't want those broken. So that was me at the sink last night. I was like, I got this part. Yeah, you already know.

I know. Now, are y'all buffet people, eat wherever you want, or are you like, put out the, the, all of the, the, the china and we have place settings? What kind of Thanksgiving family are y'all?

So my youngest daughter came home from New York with 4 friends from AMDA with her. Okay. So they got here Tuesday. So I had to set out a table outside on the patio. The dining room table was set, but then I set up buffet style in the kitchen. So I do designate places to eat. They not eating in my living room on my couch. No, that's not happening. So, um, yeah, we had a whole crew of college kids. Outside on the patio. We just let them take over out there. So they're all staying here, which is why I have my earbuds in, because at some point they're going to wake up and come into the house. They're actually staying outside. I have— I'm in Old South Dallas, so it's the old mother-in-law quarters out back. Okay. I put all of them back there, but they're going to come into the back door at some point and start messing up the kitchen all over again.

And good, because we want this food eaten and gone. Eaten and gone.

We want it out. Yeah, I know. Because the longer the leftovers are here, the longer I snack.

Listen, I had so many desserts that I forgot one. And I took out the chocolate icebox pie that I really ordered for me. That's my favorite little thing. And my husband likes it. But I was like, I'll order, have a piece, and be done. Girl, I forgot the pie. So that's not good. Because this morning I was like, I know what I'm having for breakfast. And now nobody's here to eat it but me.

Yeah, because I, I had a little lemon cake for breakfast with my coffee.

So there you go. That's the way we do it.

It's not good. It's not good during this time.

That's why you have to go visit the doctor before Thanksgiving. I was like, look at all my numbers now, don't look at them after the cholesterol and, and the bread and the potatoes, all of that.

Oh, I know, I know.

Well I had the opportunity to meet you last year. Um, I got an invitation from you to speak at a gala that you were hosting, um, and I really didn't, um, look too deeply into, um, you or your story. I knew that it was a fundraising event, and I, you know, Googled and went to your website and knew generally what you were about. And I was like, can I make that happen, you know, am I free on my calendar? And I was, and it was in Dallas, so I was like, this is easy, I don't have to travel, and this is a worthy cause and I want to, I want to go. But when I went, I was so— honestly, Donna, I was marked by your mission, but I was more marked by you and the decisions that you've made in your life. In this season in your life to really step out there and to, um, take some risks, believe big things, to follow God's leading in your life, to do what he has charged you to do. And even the event itself last year, um, I remember you saying to me, you know, like, this was a big step, and someone told you, you're not charging enough. You're not, you know, like, expect big things. And so what I have been able to see, um, when I've been in your presence, when I have heard the details of your story, um, and then what I've been able to see even distant when I watch on social media, um, I keep seeing you do big things. Um, you know, buying houses to help other people, and we'll talk more about that, and the events to raise funds and the renovations to the places that you'll be. Like, it is very clear to me that, um, you make it your aim to stay connected so that you know when God is telling you what to do. And you may not know how he's going to do it, or how you're going to do it, or what connections he's going to give you, but you're like, well, this is what he said, so that's what I'm gonna do. Um, and God has been doing big things in your life and in the lives of others as a result. So what I would love to do is, um, just to have you tell, first of all, um, about Viola's House. What is Viola's House? And then why you created this space.

Okay. So Viola's House started as a mentoring program. Um, like you, I was a little bit younger than you. Um, when I had my daughter, I was 17 years old and had just received my acceptance letter to college. My father was a pastor, my mother was a first lady, and it felt very devastating during that season of my life. And I had this amazing village that stepped in. Big part of that village was Viola Paris, my godmother. I'm sure you can relate to this. My parents were very, very busy and really depended on the village in the church that they had surrounded us with. So Viola's mother was my parents' godmother. Uh, Viola's mother, Mother Mott, she had 15 kids, and Viola, her daughter, became my godmother. And so we were all part of my dad's church, and, um, Viola would step in a lot with me as a teen because for some reason that's who I related to. That's who I love to spend summers with. And so my parents were wonderful parents, but they really heavily depended on the village. So I became a teen mom and chose to keep my child. And once I made that decision to keep the child, I told my parents and it— my— our household was devastated by that. And I will say, I knew of you as a very young girl during that season of my life. Because of my father and his admiration for your father. And that was the reference that he had during that season. So full circle moment here, really, because that is really what my father would reference. And he would say, if Dr. Evans got through it, I can get through it. So as I, as I grew, I had I had a lot of support with my daughter, but I felt this guilt of having a child as a single mom, and I chose to become a teen bride as well. And so I got married at 19, and then I had two more daughters after I was married. So I was a very young mother. I had a child holding my hand, a child in a car seat, and a child on my hip. But I was able to complete school, get my degree and all of that because of my village. And I gained a great career in corporate because, again, I had a supportive village. So I moved to Dallas in 2007. And that story is really simple. I don't know why God sent me to Dallas at that time. I had never visited Dallas in my entire life. I didn't have any family here, but when we knew that it was time to leave Chicago, Dallas, Dallas, Dallas was ringing out. And so I stepped out on faith and left all of my family and everything that I knew and packed up my minivan, left my kids in Chicago for a month to get set up here. And I thought it was for insurance purposes because I had an insurance career. But I started a mentoring program here in Dallas, in Irving ISD and Plano ISD was the first ISDs that would let me come into the classroom to teach the demographic of teen parents in there. And I had this amazing curriculum, and I just wanted to teach them about finishing their education, and budgeting, and all those things that I felt like teen moms needed this information. These kids could care less about my curriculum because they were in survival mode. And it was a shock for me, right, to learn that teen moms were homeless. I had never experienced homelessness. And so I said yes to God, to mentoring. And once I learned of the next problem, I said yes again, because why not? If I'm, if I'm being shown a problem here on Earth, I feel like it's our duty to try to add some solution to a problem here on Earth, especially with serving. And so I started the process of opening a residential program for teen moms. I had no one around me doing it. I didn't know what it looked like. I had to learn from trial and error. I had no staff. So I started in one apartment with two beds, and I released a very soft press release, and within a week I had 10 applicants. And I knew that this was a big problem here in Dallas and that I was embarking on something massive. I went from one apartment to three apartments. I had girls on the couch because I had no staff, and I was learning through trial and error. It was a bit of a darkest, but I was just housing girls and babies. I was in hospital, you know, in hospitals with girls as they were going into labor. I'm raising my girls, um, you know, still have my career in corporate because unbeknownst to most people is when you start a nonprofit, you're typically starting with your own funds and supporting it with your own funds. So I had to work.

Yeah.

Um, and so I'm working, I'm down at these apartments at 2 o'clock in the morning or days where I didn't have to be office. I was with my laptop there at the apartments. I had set up, set up an office in the apartments, and we were donated a home. And while I'm running this program from apartments and volunteers still in the schools doing the curriculum, I started the capital campaign to raise money to renovate this home so that we could put all of the programming under one roof. And so that's really the gist of how Viola's House got started and why. And here we are years later, and I'm continuing to say yes to every problem that I see that we can address. And new things come up as legislation changes, as, you know, the laws change. We're faced with more problems here in the state of Texas as far as the demographic of women who now need housing during their pregnancy. It looks very different for us now., and we are just stepping up to try to meet every need with this demographic of women that we see.

So just a little bit about, um, you, you moved to Dallas, like you said, you thought it was for insurance, but you didn't know of anybody. You took that step and then you've kind of hit on, um, 2 or 3 different times. Um, and I know that there are a lot more than that, but where very specifically it was like, here's the next thing, go do it. When looking back, because we don't always see it in the moment, but looking back, what would you tell me today and those who are going to be, who are watching right now and who will watch after about what it looks like for you to get a charge from God when he's like, all right, do this. What does that look like? How do you know it's God? How do you know? Uh, how do you move past? Okay, but I don't know how. How do you know that even when you don't know exactly how you're going to do it, that you're 100% sure? Or maybe you're not 100, but you're sure enough that he is like, this is what you're supposed to do, this is what you're supposed to do, this is what's next. What does that look like for you?

Yeah, when I am given a vision that I've never seen that I didn't walk through myself, and it keeps ringing in your spirit, and you dream about it, and you can see it in your dreams, you know that it's for you. The thing is, God is not always going— he'll show you something, but he's not always going to give you the steps of how the provision will come. That's our faith walk. That is pure faith there, right? Um, in obedience, I had to learn obedience doesn't always necessarily doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, the money is going to be set out before you. Every step of the way is going to be set out before you because it's not. Honestly, honestly, when God showed me to do the mentoring program, if he had showed me this right now, I probably would have been so scared that I would have been like, oh no, no, no, that's a lot. But I had to keep saying yes every step of the way. Mm-hmm. And, you know, the thing is, my faith has always been this since I was a little girl where I knew when God was placing something in my spirit and that I couldn't back down from it. I have just You know, my dad will say it too, like, that has just always been Thana. So yeah, when I see it and I have the vision for it, I remember I used to get up in the middle of the night and start putting it into a PowerPoint because I would wake up and I would see it. And I saw this home. I saw this home and I saw pregnant bellies walking around. I went through about 3 houses here in Dallas where I kept getting told no. And at some point I was like, this don't make sense because I saw this home, but I didn't know that the home would be donated to me. And I needed to wait, wait for that moment and wait for that, right? In our time, and it's not God's timing at all. And if I've not learned anything else, I have learned that on this journey. So yeah, I know, and God will show me in dreams. And it's— some people don't understand that. And some people try to figure out, you know, how I keep going even through the midst of adversity. But it is certainly my faith walk and my reliance on the Holy Spirit just showing me every step of the way because we can see it. But We don't always know how. You just have to know that you've seen it. So I am grateful for that. And I'm grateful for that foundation. That's so good.

So last year, I'm hearing you talk about this. I'm hearing you, um, you know, we had an opportunity to, um, to be on the local news together. And so I heard your story then, um, at the Sister Circle Live last January. I got to hear a different shade, different angle of your story there. But just me watching and hearing and being at the gala, first annual, which I loved that that was the faith move there. We're going to do this, we're going to go big and we're going to say up front, it's the first one, we're going to do this again. But I remembered hearing last year and seeing last year the beauty of this event that was well-planned, beautifully orchestrated. I mean, it was just so well done. And I'm looking at you and I'm thinking, this is what it looks like. When God gives you a vision and you just launch out and do it. But I was watching you. I was sitting at the table next to you, and you know, when— as the event is getting started, you have your phone in your hand and you're texting people. Because at the end of the day, as much, as much support as you have, and as much as God is doing this beautiful thing, you're still the head woman in charge, and you're still making sure everybody's doing what they're supposed to do and, and things are going the way they're supposed to go. So you're trying to be the hostess, and you, you did. You— it's not like You tried, you did, you were an amazing host. But you also, as the event started, you were very much so like hands-on because I'm responsible for this. And I watched you as the evening went on, you kind of put your phone down, you kind of relaxed into the moment, you know, to just be present and to just say, you know what, it's, it's, we here now. I'm going to let this go.

Right.

But I was watching you and I was thinking, this is what it looks like though. Like, this is faith. Like, The event is happening and there comes a point when you do as much as you can and then you're like, okay, I just gotta let it, I just gotta let it roll because yeah, I really can't handle, control, ensure every jot and tittle. Like, God brought me here and he's gonna see us all through. Um, yeah, when you finish that first event, because the second one is coming in another week. Yeah. Were you thinking, this was great, I'm so excited that round 2 is coming? Were you thinking, this was great, but it was the first one, I wonder if we can do this again? What was your sense of confidence or lack thereof coming out of that gala?

Honestly, for my first gala, when it was all over, I was blown away. I was blown away at the fact that we pulled it off. I saw a vision for a gala over 10 years ago, and I would not do one even though I was housing moms, even though, you know, people were coming by to tour. I would not do it until I knew that it could be properly executed. So year after year, everybody would ask me, "Why aren't you doing a gala?" And I would say, "It's not time yet." So when I knew it was time and when all of the pieces came into place, I had two amazing former teen moms that agreed to come to tell their story with me on stage. And I knew, I knew that it was the season for it. So even though things were a bit disarrayed to me, a lot of the audience didn't know. So when it was all over, I was blown away that we had pulled off this gala for the first time. And you were there and Jada Pinkett's mom was there. And so many amazing people were there in the room. I was blown away and I was super grateful. And we started in January gearing up for the next one. We sat down and assessed everything that went wrong. We assessed what we loved and what went right. And we started gearing up for it. Now I'm gonna tell you, I'm a week away from the second one and I'm nervous, right? I'm just gonna be honest with you. I may walk in there like I got it all together, I'm a week away and I am nervous. There are going to be even more people in the room. And this year, senators and judges and Beyoncé's mother is coming. And then one of the former members from Destiny's Child is coming. And then someone from the East Coast who, you know, in my 20s, I was in church and raising kids, so I didn't really know a lot of the rappers, but Freeway, who used be on Rockefeller Records. He does a lot of advocacy work on the East Coast for kidney disease, which is what Viola passed away from. And so his story is just amazing. He's buried two children. So we're going to honor him for the advocacy work that he's doing. We're honoring another philanthropist. And, and, and I'm nervous because I'm like, how did we get here at year two? And I'm hoping that at this gala, we're actually working on who we want for next year, and I'm hoping we'll have it wrapped up this week and be able to announce it at the gala. And so I'm blown away, um, but I'm also grateful for me taking my time and waiting, um, until it was time to do this. And so, um, this year is very different from last year because if you go online to get tickets tickets, you'll see that we're over— we've already reached over 60% of our goal. Very different from last year. Um, and so I'm looking at all of that and just knowing that last year was the year to launch this. It was what it was supposed to be. And now it pushed us into a whole different season. Um, this year, I mean, we, we have had so much happen this year, um, since that gala I'm just— I'm blown away. I still— let me tell you, I still probably cry once a week when something amazing happens or I get some amazing news. I told somebody on my staff last week, I said, I don't know that I'll ever get used to— like, I could cry right now. I know that we know God's going to do it, and I know our faith tells us, but I don't know that I'll ever get used to the goodness of God and the way that he shows up, it just blows my mind sometimes. And so I still have these crying moments when I get an email or, you know, the notice of something that we've prayed for. I don't know that I can ever just get used to it because I know he's gonna do it, but sometimes the way that he does it and when he does it, it just blows my mind. So I'm panicking a little bit about this year, but I know that we have a message that we're gonna give this year at the gala, um, that is just going to shed light on a problem that we are facing here in Texas. It's going to shed light on a different demographic that now needs our help and how we are tackling those problems and what we're working on now so that we can continue to meet the needs as more needs come up.

So So if you're watching, um, or maybe you're listening, because sometimes y'all know how we do, we play YouTube in the background and you want to know more about, um, Thawna and Viola's House, uh, I just want to drop this here before we continue our conversation. You can go to violashouse.org, V-I-O-L-A-S house.org. Um, not only can you find out more about the organization, but you can also buy tickets to the gala. I am so excited to be going again this year, and I'm not doing anything. I'm just coming because I want to come and support. And even if you can't go, maybe you can buy a seat or ticket for someone who can go to support this wonderful mission and to learn more about this organization and all of the many, many, many, many people. And I say people because even if Viola's House is helping young women, who find themselves with pregnancies that were either unplanned or that they're unprepared for. When you help a woman, you don't just help that woman, young, mid, or old, you are helping everyone that woman touches. And so there is this circle of impact that we have when we, when we help a mother. So I want to just say that. So if you're here and you don't get to finish listening, you're very clear about an action that you can take that will bless bless not only you for being in the room or for some supporting someone who can be in the room, but that will bless a life and change it forever. You said if you're honest, you're, you're still nervous. So let's talk about that. Like you would think, I mean, like, can I just say it has nothing to do obviously with Viola's House. I have my own list of things that just have me nervous, like right as I'm teetering at the end of the year. Um, And I ask myself this question sometimes. I'm like, he keep— like you said, I'm blown away. God keeps doing things that I don't anticipate, or I'm just like, I hope that turns out okay. And even though he comes through, then the next time I'm very clear about the next step, or the next time I feel compelled to do like you said, I can't shake it. It's just, it's just echoing in my spirit. So I know I'm supposed to move forward. I still feel nervous, or like I'm doing it, but the whole time I'm doing it, I'm like— and you know, you hate these cliché things, but it'll say, you know, like, do it afraid, or, you know, like, you gotta have courage, you gotta— and why is that? Why do you think it is for you? That you've seen him go exceedingly above and beyond anything that you can even think, but then when you have to go from one level of glory to the next level of glory, you still feel the shaking?

Uh, you know, I'm grateful for the shaking because it keeps me dependent on God. Honestly, honestly, it keeps me dependent on God. And I think that is what it is. I think God just wants to keep us focused on him no matter how much we grow. I now have 53 full-time employees.

Hmm.

And every once in a while I'll sit there and say, 53 people depend on me to pay their bills. What? What? Yes, I can't fail, right? Yes, they depend on me to pay their bills. God keeps me with my eyes straight on him every time I got to run that payroll. Seriously, that's what I'll do it.

It's one thing to be nervous for yourself, it's another thing— and maybe nervous isn't the word, just the weight, the responsibility. It's one thing to be responsible for yourself, it's a whole nother thing to know— like you said, your employees, but also all of these women that you're serving, that they have a place to go because God has given you this vision and you're stewarding it. And it's, it's a lot of weight. It can be, it can be, it is a lot of weight.

And if you think about it, the 53 employees serve thousands of mothers a month, right? We have over 6,000 visits a month to our Baby Benefit Boutique. Baby Bucks, which I didn't even talk about that outside of housing. We have a social service agency where mothers take pregnancy and parenting classes so they earn Baby Bucks to shop in our beautiful upscale thrift store. So my faith has to keep that thrift store stocked with stuff. That means the donors are coming and bringing us all of their baby items, and Amazon is continuing to keep, you know, their overflow of baby items coming our way. Keep a thrift store stocked, a 3,000-square-foot thrift store stocked so that mothers can shop there. But then what happened this year is we hit an uptick in mothers in classes every day. And right now we have over 500 mothers a day taking pregnancy and parenting classes with us. So it's not just the employees— a day. So it's not just the employees But so many mothers depend on us in order to get the resources that they need for their households, right? That is a weight, Chrystal Hurst, seriously. We give diapers for the first 3 years of a child's life. So right now we're giving out over 160,000 diapers a month. The weight of The weight of all of that can be a lot. That's the weight of all of that can be a lot. Um, and so I, I definitely have my moments, but then at the same time I'm watching God do it and I'm like, whoa, I'm impressed too. Like, whoa, when I look at reports at the end of the month, I'm, I'm just, I'm watching God do it and I'm watching organically grow, right? There's no tricks to it, nothing. We are organically growing because there's such this great need that we're meeting. But the nervousness still comes. I mean, and that is, to me, that's me saying, God, I am still wholeheartedly depending on you. I never want to lose that, if I'm being honest. We don't like the nervous feeling We know our faith is there.

Yeah.

But I know that I still have to wholeheartedly depend on God for this all to happen. So I'm okay with the nervousness. You know, it's the human side of me where people, people just see you show up, you know, almost see you almost like a superhero. But that is certainly the human side of me where every day is a It's a faith walk. It is truly a faith walk every single day.

Now, you increased the size of the gala because last year you had a full house. How many people?

Um, last year we had 350 people, so we increased to 500 this year.

Okay. And when we talk about, yes, depending on God, um, and when we talk about, yes, him challenging us and leading us to do things that we couldn't do on our own, And yes, talk about the feelings that we have about the weight and the responsibility. Um, it can keep us dependent on him, but how do you know the difference between the weight that keeps you leaning on him? It's kind of like what I was saying when we got started. My parents supported, but they let me have some of the weight because they knew that it was a part of building and responsibility and my growth.

Both.

They were actively involved in making sure that I had enough weight to grow me, but not more weight, too much weight that would crush me. And God is a good father because he does that really well. He wants us to grow and he'll challenge us, but right when we think we're about to break, you know, it'll be like, okay, he, he's there. But it's stressful. Like, how do you manage, um, the weight and the responsibility that could not be good for you? Like, you know, the stress of just everything you mentioned, plus you got your own families and your own grandchildren and your own, you know, personal— so what do you do to, to manage that? Because you're right, there's a gala next week and you had this beautiful dress on last time. I believe that you'll have a beautiful dress on this time. You're gonna look like a million dollars. You're gonna waltz in that room.

If I stop eating cake and confetti. I just ate lemon cake for breakfast.

Listen, you can do that. You can do that about 3 more days. Just shut it down like 3 days. But what do you do to manage that? I mean, because people are going to see in the— no, you know, they'll be social because there'll be people that maybe couldn't come, but they'll start following you on social or following by always us, and they're gonna see that it was all beautiful and seamless, but there's a lot you're managing in that. And so it is. I'd love to know how you know when you're in a place where it's, it's too much, or what do you do to mitigate stress that wouldn't be good with all the responsibility that you have.

So, um, one thing that I do, I, I have to be intentional with keeping myself grounded. Um, so I know this is cliché, but my prayer life and my talks to God are different. Like, um, most of the time I'm not down on two knees on the side of my bed. I have to talk to him throughout the day. We had a huge, uh, closing this year on the commercial strip space that the boutique is in. We had to buy it because we're opening up a pediatric clinic. And I'll get into all of that of what's to come. But the closing itself, I cried for about 2 days. I didn't think it was going to happen. It was the biggest purchase that our organization had made and we ended up closing. And I remember that night I sat at home by myself and I looked up and I was like, you know, you cut it close this time. You know, you had me like I was You would have thought I was crazy. I was like, you know, you had me stressed out this time. You got it so close. But thank you. But thank you, God. But thank you. I have these conversations with God that are real, normal and real. Yeah. Yeah. Because there is no fronting for God. There is no, you know, I have to walk out of here, put on the face, all of that. Chat, you know, talk to the press. But with God, I have these real conversations. And that is what really keeps me grounded. And I know it sounds so cliché to say, because a lot of people are like, I talk to God too, and he not pulling my vision off. Well, I've been working on this vision for years and mine not coming together like that. So I know it sounds cliché. But when I tell people, like, you have to stay there, seriously, you have to stay there in your spirit, in your walk, in everything that you do. You have to know. And, and sometimes I don't even know how to explain to people my staying power. I often call it grit, a different level of grit, right? But the grit and the staying power is my prayer life with God. And again, it's not normal. It's not a— I wake up in the morning at 6:00 a.m. and I'm kneeling on the side of the bed. It is all day. Old school used to teach us to pray without ceasing. Mm-hmm. And that's not saying get down 10 times a day on your knees. You are supposed to be in constant communication throughout the day. Listen to what your spirit is saying. I remember I was offered this opportunity at a last hour to do something with Fox News, and nothing in my spirit jumped or leaped or told me it was for me. And so I sent a message an hour before and I said, hey, I'm not gonna be able to pull it off. It's a last-minute request, and I'm not gonna be able to do it. What I wanted to say is, this is not for me. And a lot of times we will stress ourselves out, and we will— every opportunity is not a good opportunity. And so we stress ourselves out adding all this stuff to our plate. And, and, and for me, in this season of my life, because I wasn't always here, let me be very clear with that, I wasn't always here, but in this season of my life, I am listening and I'm being led, right? And it takes you some time to get there. It takes you some years to get there to where you like, no, I am wholeheartedly being led. And so in those moments, I'm following my spirit. I tend to be a very, very calm person now. Let me say now. And that's because because I know what God has shown me. So the process of getting there, no, he not going to show you all the bumps and the bruises, the potholes and all of that. But I know what God has shown me, and so I tend to be very, very calm in this season of my life. I'm, um, you know, I could have something major come up and I just, I handle it a little bit differently, um, because because I know, I know what my prayer life is. And me and God got a thing going on. We got a whole thing going on. So, um, I don't know how to explain it though. Some people, everybody, you know, I always get the question of, what's your secret? What's this? And I'm like, you don't even understand. You know, I got this thing going on with God. I don't know how to explain it to you, but that's what it is.

It's so good. One of the things you mentioned in passing, um, in, I, I think it was when we were like in the waiting room to go do the Fox News thing, but you mentioned, and I don't know if the right word is a mentor or coach or just somebody that is guiding you. Um, but you, you did mention in preparation for the gala that there was someone who who basically said, no, go big, raise your prices. And I mentioned that, but you had someone that encouraged you to do that. Have you— do you actively seek people that are ahead of you or have done what you feel like God is asking you to do? Do those people, you know, without your effort, appear in your life um, because I think one of the things that will attract people to you, Donna, is, okay, God is doing big things in your life, but they may assume that it's all just coming and that there isn't necessarily any support, guidance, covering, leadership for you. It's just, you know, God direct to you. What does that look like for you?

Because I think that's This is a good question.

It's so important that people understand that when you see a person, you're not just seeing the person. Um, yeah.

So I have people that I watch from afar that I, I take a lot from who are not in my life personal. I have personal mentors for different things. Um, financial matters, nonprofit matters, spiritual matters. Um, I, I'm no longer married, and so I'm under my father's covering.

Um, so that being said, I'm sorry, pause, pause right there because I, I just, I can't, because somebody don't understand that. Somebody does not understand that you are a grown woman with multiple children, grandchildren, and you just said I am under my father's covering. Can you explain what that means and why you would feel the need in this season of your life to still have covering?

Um, because covering is necessary. You all always have to have spiritual covering, counseling covering, um, until you leave this earth and, and it shifts and you become covering. Covering for someone. But, um, growing up, I always understood a spiritual covering. And so once I got married, my father explained to me that I was under my husband's covering. And so, um, I'm no longer married, and I am back under my father's covering of spiritual spiritual leadership. I also have a pastor, so let me be clear with that. But I'm under the covering of, um, my father spiritually. Even with mentorship, it— we have to know that we need to have that in our life.

So important.

You have to have someone that is still praying for you with no motives, unconditionally. You have to have that in your life. You have to know that someone is covering you when you can't see them, when you can't hear them. You have to know that, um, because two is always better than one. Um, there are, there are a lot of things that I can't see that my covering will see ahead of me, um, in front of me, behind me. You have to have that, and it has to be someone that again has no motives. They don't care about your come up or, you know, how popular you are with the people. They are covering you, your spirit man, your being, your heart, all of that. Um, that's the best way for me to explain the way that I see it. It's so good. But I have always known We have to have that. And sometimes people who say they don't need nobody and they don't need no friends, I be— I run quick, run really, really quick. Like, why don't you have friends? Why don't you have a covering? That's not okay. It's not okay. So I have that, and then I have my pastor, and then I have And let me go back to something you asked. You asked, is it— does it just attract to me? No, I'm intentional. I am very, very intentional. I had a Friendsgiving here at my house and some people were like, whoa, when did your circle shift to this? And I said, oh, I became intentional 3 years ago because I knew the importance of it. And so you have to foster relationships, you have to water them, you have to. And, and, you know, it reciprocates both ways. But it's, it's, it's just important, especially with where I am. A lot of times I need— recently I found myself needing strong financial advice, you know, financially. How do we grow this financial portfolio so that it starts to benefit us us, right? So I had a team of my personal board of advisors, like, um, because your organization can have a board, but your person sometimes needs a board. Yeah, yeah. And then the stewardship portion where I do have to report to my board.

That's right.

And I want to show that I'm a good steward, and I want to show that I've done my work before I come to the table with them. And so I've got that personal board of advisors people that I trust, but I have been intentional with saying, okay, this is what I need for my life. And Chrystal, sometimes I place myself in rooms on purpose, even pay the astronomical registration fee to be in that room so I can tell them who I am and what I do. And so that, that has, that has been really helpful. For me this year. I've been doing a lot of work in D.C., policy work on maternity housing, and I had to place myself in some rooms. And the result of that, I just got an invitation to the vice president's house for her Christmas party 4 days after the gala. That's amazing. But let me tell you something. Again, some people may look and say, oh, that's just favor. I have placed myself in a lot of rooms this year. And I've had conversations and I've had to shake some hands to say, this is what I'm doing, this is why we're faced with this problem, this is what I need legislation to look like in regards to maternity housing, and letting my voice be heard. But it wasn't just some miraculous— I was here in Dallas and then all of a sudden I'm standing in a room in D.C. I had to be intentional and keep telling people why we need maternity housing to look different, especially now after we're no longer in a Roe v. Wade era anymore. And so we need maternity housing to look different. And I have to tell the stories. I have to tell the stories. And so intentionality. Is the key with your circle, with your covering, with all of that. And my father knows that he's my covering, right? And he takes that serious. He takes that very serious, um, that he is my covering. And so I think we can't be afraid to need people.

Yeah.

Um, to need good friends. To— we, we can't be so That's the word I'm looking for. We have to let it be known that this is what we need. This is what we're looking for.

Pride. We can't be proud. Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yes. So yeah, I'm intentional. Very. Yeah.

I mean, it makes me, what you're describing makes me think about, you know, the story of the talents.

Um, okay.

So the gala that's coming up there, and there may be people who say that, um, girl, but do you have to do all of that? Like, you're gonna spend so much money trying to, you know, trying to generate donations and giving and to create a charitable experience. You're spending so much money to do that. I'm sure somebody in your world was like, are you sure you have to have it at that hotel? Like, I don't know, they're— but, you know, I think it could also He said in the Bible, the story about the talents, you know, did the man who had 5 talents have to go and make 5? Like, whatever he did to go and to do that, there's always something required of us. And I think that's the part. People, people want blessing, people want favor, and sometimes people can assume that if they want blessing and favor in an area that they feel like falls into something God would want, you know, that you're taking care of the poor, you're taking care of the widow, you're taking care of the orphan, you're taking care of those that are less than, you are entertaining angels unaware. If I'm doing all these things, that God is just going to drop everything I need to do that in my lap. When in reality, he's like, listen, I want you to take what I've given you and I want you— and I love that word that you've used multiple times to intentionally multiply it. But you got to go figure that out. I'm gonna give you some starting seed, and then you go figure out what to do with it, you know. And so, um, have—

how have you— Chrystal, that's one of my favorite parables, because think about the servant that took the talent and buried it.

That's right.

He was given— it was given to him. Yes, right.

Yes, yes.

But he did nothing with it. He said, depart from me, I never knew you. Because we're supposed to be bearing fruit, right? And that parable never tells us how the one with the 5 went and multiplied the 5. It doesn't go into the details of that, but we know that he did. Um, and that, that is often one of my favorite parables because I use that when people want me to go in their direction. I say, you know, I'm gonna stand by myself before God when this is all over, right? I can't say this person got— I didn't because this person didn't want me to. And I— it's one of my favorite parables. I use it all the time about bearing fruit. I, I have to bear fruit and I have to give an account for it. And I'm gonna stand before the King and give account for everything he gave me and put inside of me. What did I do with it? So yeah, I use that all the time. I'm like, I'm not gonna be standing with you when I have to give an account. I'm not gonna be standing with my kids. Um, and this is a whole nother subject, but women come to me who are embarking on divorce all the time, right? Because I went through a divorce after almost a 20-year marriage. And I tell them, I said, listen, I, I don't know where you are and I can't judge your marriage, but I knew that I would stand alone before God and I couldn't say, God, this husband you gave me stopped me from doing everything that you put on the inside of me to do. So yeah, that— people need to really think about that parable often because I, I use it in life all the time. That's one of my favorites.

Well, you know, and here's the thing, I think a lot of times we may not do something with what we have because we don't know And like you said, the Bible doesn't tell us what that person did with those 5, you know, we just have to know we're responsible to do something with it. And if you need guidance, mentoring, teaching, if you need connection, it doesn't take anything away from God for you to just do what you can to get what you need to multiply. And that is a part of what we're responsible for doing. I think there have been seasons in my life, and I know a lot of people where because they don't know what to do to multiply, they do nothing. And, and you don't even have to— something is not just the knowledge of what to do. Something is sometimes the question that you have to ask, or the person that you have to ask for a meeting, or the email that you need to send, or like you said, registration fees, the rooms that you need to be in. Sometimes there's something isn't that you have the information. It's just that you're willing to take a step to go wherever the information is or wherever the connection is. I mean, I, I— what would you have done if that person in your life had not pushed you? I mean, when you look back and you think now, had I not charged what I charged, had I not booked it at that hotel the first year, had I not done the gay I mean, there are so many things in this last year that I'm sure would not have happened, just wouldn't happen.

Yeah, but because of the gala, we are opening up in Baltimore because of the gala.

Wow. And, and because of the gala, your Dallas operation has become a national operation.

Yeah, because of the gala. Seriously, because someone was at that gala. That's all everything we were doing here and said, I really need you to do a market analysis on Baltimore and go up there and see it for yourself.

Wow.

And you know me, I couldn't say no. I went up there and I was just blown away. And I had already done the market analysis. And then I went to meet with the deans at the city colleges in Baltimore. And I was just like, yeah, I'm not here for no reason. Reason. Like, I, I am specifically in this city for a reason, and I've spent a lot of time up there, and I spent time at the harbor, at the water, praying. Um, but that was because of the gala, right? And the reason I say that is because, because of the person that was there that saw what we were doing here in Dallas, and just, she's like, Donna, you have to do this in Baltimore. You got go see it. So I couldn't ignore it. I couldn't ignore the charge. But then the doors that just started opening up in the state of Maryland for us to even do this work, and then somewhere in between there, you know, we got this amazing governor in Maryland that is all about community action, and I've had the opportunity to be in the room with him and share So that's because of the gala, and that's all within the last year. So yeah.

Well, y'all, if you're just joining us, I am talking to Thawna Hickman, who, um, who following God's lead created an organization called Viola's House. And there is a gala coming up. If you are in the DFW area and would like to find out more, to seed into this organization, and also to support the organization's efforts, I want you to consider— I mean, you can always give a donation to Viola's House, but I want you to consider going to the gala so that your ticket price not only covers your seat, but also blesses the organization so that you can even find out more. If you can't go, buy someone a seat. If you don't know of anybody to go, make a donation. But the goal here is to make sure that, one, I wanted you to meet Donna, but I also wanted to give visibility to Viola's House. Viola's house and, um, the, the, the gala that's coming up, because as Thana just said, there's certain things that happen when we move forward with the plans that God's— God has, and also place ourselves in certain rooms or invite other people to join us there. I have never been disappointed when I feel pressed, uh, to do something. And I, I will tell you, I don't, um, have a nonprofit. Nonprofit. We do a lot of ministry work, but I'm not structurally a nonprofit. But, um, it came to me similar to how it did last year. It came to me this year. Someone sent in a donation and I emailed them back and I said, hey, I'm not a nonprofit. I just want to make sure. She said, oh no, I know, I know. It's just I'm being obedient. And, um, that's not a norm. Then another person sent a donation. I called them too. I just want to make sure you know I was like, there's a lot of ministry going on here, but I'm not a nonprofit. She said, no, no, I'm just being obedient. And so my first reaction, Thawna, was like, okay Lord, there are certain things that in the last few months have just made me a little nervous. And I'm like, okay, you're just letting me know you got it. And he said, no, no, that is not what I'm doing. I'm putting it in your hands because I trust you to pass it on. So, you know, we'll be there and I've got, you know, we're still working through which people are coming and all that, but, um, to have people from our organization attend, because I was there last year, not only did I see it, not only was I a part of it, but I felt it. You know how if you're in a room, you just know, like you're saying, there's certain rooms that you're in, even if you didn't plan to be there, there are certain rooms that you're in and you're like, you can feel it in that room. There's something else happening besides me just attending. There's something else happening. It's a, it's a different level of connection. And I just, in that moment, the Lord was like, not only will you be going to the event and buying seats, but you also are going to have her on, and you're also going to make sure you share again about, um, what's happening. And I don't know who's going to watch this, and I don't know what fruit will be born of it, but like you said, you know when you're being led, and it was timely. So, um, I, I want to ask you this final thing, um, and y'all, again, I put the lower third on here, Viola's House, Viola with violaspluralhouse.org. Go on the website, check it out, get more familiar with Viola's House and what, uh, Thawna's doing along with amazing employees and volunteers who are the hands and feet of this ministry. Um, I know that there are probably dreams you have that you can't share, but I'd love for you to share if there's one that it hadn't happened yet, it's still in seed form and you don't know when and you don't know how,, but you're believing that God will bring that vision to pass.

Um, 16 states and then Africa. Listen, in Africa, specific.

It wasn't like 2 more. You said 16.

16 states in Africa. Yeah, yeah, um, yeah.

Wow.

And I'm just Yeah, I'm in a building phase. And like you said, I don't know. I don't know how, but I have analyzed every city that I need to be in, and I need to be in 16 states, and I need to be over in Africa. So I don't know how those partnerships will come. I don't know when, but I know that I am going to keep saying yes, and I'm going to keep moving. And we are going to offer quality maternity housing for mothers that are in need during their pregnancy and quality healthcare. I had a dream years ago for healthcare, and I didn't know how it would happen. And let me say, sometimes it's not always you making it happen, it's the collaboration and the partnership. That's right. So what people will see at the gala is in January, our pediatric and women's health clinic right next door to our boutique will be done. And it's through a partnership with HHM Healthcare. So don't forsake partnerships and collaborations because sometimes you think it's just you that need to make it happen, but it comes through partnerships and other people that have the resources to make it happen. So yeah, I've got— Chrystal Hurst, I have huge dreams, okay? Like, I'm all centered around serving and meeting a need. And sometimes I'm like, can you give me big dreams for myself? But right now, the big dreams that are coming is how I can serve and continue to just be the hands and feet of God here on earth. I tell the staff in every staff meeting, we may be the only God that they see today.

That's right.

We may be the only God that they see. And so, um, yeah, I got some big dreams and I'm a, I'm, I am going to do the work so that they can come to pass.

That's beautiful. I think you just said, you know, sometimes I wish I would have big dreams for me or, you know, and all the dreams I'm getting are serving But I think one is embedded in the other. I really do. I think—

really, tell me, tell me, tell me.

No, I believe, I believe that when we— one can be trusted with the dreams that he gives us, even if they are to benefit someone else. God is a giving God, but it's a— but he operates according to the principle of sowing and sleeping, and he operates according to the principle of reciprocity. So there are dreams that you may not even know you have that you'll realize probably simultaneously that when he gives you something, that he was dreaming something because you were busy dreaming for him. He's— it's like he'll meet you with something that you did not even give yourself the bandwidth to dream for because you were so busy on his errand that he took care of yours. And right about the same time that you even start feeling like, I kind of sort of want, he's already there at the door waiting. I mean, have you ever had like an experience where, I mean, I, I'm trying to think of this apart from food, but you know, here we are, it's after Thanksgiving, so this is where my brain this, but it'll be like I had a taste for something that I didn't even really know I had until somebody was cooking it. And then it'll be like, you know what, I was— I had a taste for something I didn't even know what it was, and I'm so glad you fixed that.

It's, it's—

it happens at the same time. So right about the time you're like, I haven't even put words to it— and that's why that scripture says, eyes have not seen, ears have not heard what the Father has planned for those who love them. So love him. So there's a dreaming that we don't even need to get to because he's doing it, but he is faithful to deliver it when we are busy on his errand. So he'll either give you the room to dream, or right about the time you begin, he's already at the door with the thing that satisfies you in the deepest places. That's how I believe he works.

Thank you. Thank you. And, and now that you say it, I think that I have experienced that in several areas of my life. So you're right. You are absolutely right.

Yeah. You don't even have to dream. It's almost like being a kept woman where you don't even really have to ask because you're so well taken care of. And he's just been checking off your dreams as you go before you even have had a chance to dream them.

I had that happen this year. Yeah, you're right. You are right.

Uh, wow. Well, Thawna Hickman, y'all. If you didn't know who she is, now you do. You can go follow her on social media, but I want to make sure, make sure, make sure that you know about Viola's House. This is the heartbeat of her life. It is an outpouring of what God has done in her, and it's very clear that not only is God blessing her efforts, he's blessing his efforts because he's multiplying everything she sets her hands to do. And when you see God at work, it's not just bearing fruit, but it is like overabundant, like the grapes are hanging low on the vine because it's so heavy with fruit. That's when you know that the soil is good. And so Donna Hickman and the work that she does along with so many amazing volunteers and staff. This work is good. So support the organization, buy a ticket to the event, show up in full force, buy a ticket for someone else. But just know that when you can't do it— because I know that there are some of y'all, you're like, I wish I could, I wish I had the resources, resources, or I had the time, or I've been waiting on God to show me how he wants me to do ministry— what if the way you do ministry is supporting the work that someone's hands are already. And sometimes, yes, God wants us to be active and involved, but sometimes our involvement in a certain season isn't that we are the ones who do it. Sometimes it's that we support the ones who are doing it. I'll never forget, Donna, I heard a man say— and I don't even know, I mean, I, I kind of, I, I don't even know that I've done theological work here, but it resonated. So let me just say that he said some of us are priests, and some of us are kings. And it's always the job of the kings to support the work of the priests. Sometimes you are the one who is hands-on serving the people, but sometimes you are the one who paves the way for the priests to do their hands-on work. So if you've been looking for a way to get involved— and I'm not taking your tithes now, y'all. Y'all know I'm not playing. I'm not saying that, but out of the overflow of what God has given you or with the little that you have, if you are compelled by this story, compelled by this mission, compelled by this ministry, then I want to encourage you to invest in good soil. And Thawna, I just want to thank you for allowing me to watch you, to learn from you. You are so classy. Maybe one day I'll put on makeup when I talk to people, but you always show up. Even if you know you have a muumuu on, you don't look like It's my whole boo-boo.

That's why I keep it. I'm keeping it closed. Yeah, it's not real clothes, so it's okay.

Well, thanks for joining me on this holiday weekend, and I pray that this event also sells out way before the day and that God continues to blow your mind with what he is dreaming about about, not only for Viola's House, but also for you.

For me. Thank you, Chrystal Hurst. I love and appreciate you so much.

You're welcome.

Thank you. You're welcome.

It's my pleasure. All right, y'all, I hope you enjoyed catching this. Share it with someone that you know. And I will leave the live and I will see y'all. Inner circle, I'll see you Monday morning. Everyone else, I will see you on the first Monday in December. Until then, enjoy the leftover sweet potato pie, the fun with your family, and make sure if nothing else that you take some time to ask God, what dream do you have for me? What dream do you have for me to put my hands to the plow that will benefit someone else? And is this dream that you've given Thawna, the vision that you've given Thawna, something that I'm supposed to invest in? Go ask him, because here's what I know. So when you seek him and you ask him, he answers. Thank y'all for joining.

Thank you.