The Journey of Yes: How Obedience Changes Everything with Brenda Palmer

Y'all, I'm all about all the conversations, and I try to show you that. Different ages, different races, different cultures, different conversations. Today I get to have a wonderful conversation with a young woman named Brenda Palmer, who not only is a podcaster and she's a church girl, but she is a preacher. And while in our conversation she's not necessarily going to be preaching, she is showing up and talking some good on today. If you've ever been a person who wants to say yes to God and maybe you're afraid, or maybe you are wondering if you should because he— is he going to take you where you want to go? Oh my goodness, This conversation about radical obedience and saying yes to God is going to change the way you think about God, about your life, and about yourself. Let's jump into it. This conversation with Brenda Palmer is going to be amazing. So you have written a book from start to finish. How long did it take you?

Ooh, maybe like a year, like a complete year. I think when you sign and they're like, "Oh, it'll take a year," I'm like, "No, not a year." Absolutely. A year with some, "Can we push this back?" Absolutely. It definitely took a year. And really, it was really hard. I don't know why, but it was hard.

We don't know why? You don't know why?

I guess I didn't expect it to be hard. I think I can say One of the reasons I think it was hard is because my book is about obedience. And I think I was in the middle of regretting some steps of obedience that I had taken, all the while trying to find language to inspire people to be obedient.

Regretting it, meaning like I did the right thing. I was obedient, but I'm not enjoying that process right now.

Hate the aftereffects of it. Like, hate what it did. I mean, in hindsight, I'm grateful for it now, but I think in the moment I just was like, God, I took this step following you. And now I feel like it's alienating me from people I really care about. I feel like it's— I'm getting dragged on the internet. I just don't want to. I don't want to do any of this anymore. And I think because of that, like, trying to also find ways to inspire people to do something I wasn't really happy about was tough.

So it made the process of writing tough.

Yeah, because I think I had to— I mean, I think it helped, right? Because then I had to go back to the foundation of like, why do I believe obedience is important? And despite what I was currently walking through, I think I had to find language for like, I know this moment right now sucks, but I've seen the fruit of obedience in my life, and I still think it's worth it even though right now in this moment, I'm over it. So I think it was hard with that. And then to your point earlier, it's like, I was kind of thrust into ministry and traveling. I also was in seminary and trying to balance all those things and write a book was crazy. Nobody warned me. And so I think it was trying to like balance the two things. And then also like trying to, battle, like, mentally too, right? Like, am I good enough to do this? Is this gonna make sense, uh, once people actually read it? So I think it was like all the internal pressure as well and trying to navigate all those things and still put words on a page. Okay, so the name of your book is The Journey of Yes: The Everyday Adventure of Radical Obedience.

And if now that you have a book that has a cover, you got a release date, if you could go back and tell your "I have not written a book" self, here's some wisdom for you to have for the journey. What did you need to know that you didn't know then that you know now?

Ooh, just breathe, and it doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be real. I think, um, I wish I could have told myself that in the moment, because I think I was so in my head. It took me longer, and I think I missed out on some of the enjoyment because I was trying to make it perfect. I think it was like all of the pressure I was putting on myself. So I definitely would have told myself like, just breathe, girl, relax. It is okay. I think, and I wish I would have had like started writing it before I had a book deal. I think I probably would have had less pressure too. I think the pressure of feeling like this has to be perfect because somebody else is involved in this. I would have just started earlier. So now I'm just writing all the time. So in the event that I want to write another book, it's like it already has a foundation of like what this is going to be about. And I'm settled in that.

That's good. And that's very, very good wisdom. I know you talked about being thrust into ministry, and I'm asking this question because I'm curious. How did you end up being thrust into ministry? How did you end up being— how did you arrive at the place you found yourself where all this stuff then began?

So I originally moved to California to work in entertainment. My background's in production. I've served in church basically all my life, but it's always been behind the scenes. So moving to California was just kind of like, okay, I'm ready to really do this. And I think in 2021, I moved to Marietta, California, which is like Inland Empire. It's like an hour outside of San Diego. It's the middle of nowhere, like in comparison to LA.

So why did you move there? Was that for work?

Yep. I took a position at a church, uh, where I knew absolutely nobody. Like, literally, the pastor reached out on LinkedIn, and I have been feeling like I was in a transition phase, but I didn't know where I was going. And this pastor randomly reaches out and says, hey, would you— or would you or anybody you know be interested in their next— right? And he's like, we're expanding our senior leadership team. And it was just like a cold reach out on LinkedIn. I never check my messages on LinkedIn, so I was just like, this is kind of too random to be random. And so, like, I don't know, like, I just— I was like, oh, I'll come check out the church. And when I went, um, we were— the church I was attending and working at at the time, we weren't in person because we were still virtual due to the pandemic. So I went to their church on Easter, predominantly Caucasian church, conservative environment. And I was like, what is this? And I felt like God was like, this is where I'm sending you. And I was like, okay. And so I went through like an interview process. And in June of 2021, I took a position to be the director of communications and experiences. So I ran the production, the worship, and the communications and the entire weekend experience. I did that and I was like, oh cool. Like, I felt like, um, I was like, okay Lord, like you're gonna use me at this church. I'm thinking like the church is the assignment. The whole time I was the assignment, uh, because I started there in June. September 1st, um, I was asked to preach like a 15-minute sermon in between, uh, the— one of the pastors and the worship pastor. And he's like, my pastor's like, hey, would you want to preach? I was like Uh, sure. I never did that before, but I have a podcast, so I guess, like, let's try it. Um, and I just remember telling the Lord, like, um, I have no idea what I'm doing, and I feel like this is crazy. And I just remember God saying, you get an opportunity to invite people into, like, our conversations, and you get to share it with them. And so my first sermon I preached the posture of pursuit about the woman with the issue of blood. And for the first time, like, the scripture came alive. Like, I was hearing things in real time that I had never seen in the text. It was like the most exciting but like scary thing, scariest thing I'd ever experienced. And I think from that moment, I think both my pastor at the time and I realized like, oh, this is something like she's gifted to do. And so from that moment, I got added to the teaching team and I started preaching more frequently. I would post clips online and they would go viral. And then from there, it kind of became like I started being known to the world as a preacher. And the whole time I'm like, I'm just— You're like, I'm just over here doing the communications and the weekend experiences. Yeah, I'm like, I'm just out here. And it kind of just happened like that. I was getting invited to, like, speak at places. And then in 2023, they were going to consecrate me as a pastor. And I started to feel God kind of lean in and say, like, no, that's not what's happening. Like, it's time to go. And I'm like, but where are we going? Like, I had settled in. Like, this is my life now. Like, I'm a— I go here. I'm a part of the teaching team. They're going to make me a pastor. I was, like, about to get a new house, a new car. Like, I'm like, this is my life. It's in this little small town, like, serving this local church. Like, so I had, like, settled in that. And God's like, no. He's like, we're going to go to a place. It really felt like Abraham, like, I'll show you when we get there. So I didn't renew my lease. I put my stuff in storage. I gave a 3-week notice to the church. Like, the day they were going to consecrate me ended up being the day that they commissioned me to follow the Lord into the unknown. And ever since then, I just been kind of on this journey of saying yes and ending up in places. That was February of 2023. July of 2023, I preached at the Potter's House. I ended up with a book deal by the end of 2023. That whole year, I didn't have a place to live. Like, I was just a nomad, just living with friends or people that— like, my friends are on tour. I was hosting pop-up Bible studies around the country with no money. Just whenever the Lord would say, go to Atlanta, host a Bible study, like, I would get a random check, or like somebody would randomly sow a seed because they'd seen my podcast. It was literally like The grace of God was just carrying me, and just steps of obedience just led me into things I would have never dreamed of because I never desired like this to be my life.

Hmm. What do you see looking back? Um, you know, we, we can find ourselves in situations where God is asking us to say yes. It's not a yes we intended to give. It's not a yes we didn't know he would we had no idea he would ask us for. But often in my life, I look back and I can see, oh, this is what you've been doing to get me ready for this. Yes. So when you look back before you went to this random church and were asked to preach, what has taken place? What have you experienced? What have you learned? What have you seen, good or bad, that now you can look back and say, oh, you know, he was kind of preparing me for that?

I would say like being born to parents who are pastors, I think automatically plants a seed. For me, it planted a seed like, I never want to do this in my life ever. I was like, this is great for y'all, and I have suffered these 18 years where I didn't have a choice, but I want out. Like, immediately I want out. And so, um, but I think, I think about the things that I did as a kid and like serving in ministry. I think watching my parents give selflessly and how they showed up. My parents ran street ministry. They did, like, all these things for the community. I think I developed their heart for people just over time. I would say that I've always been a leader, like I've always been leading people, like, as long as I can remember. And so I think, like, as much as I'm saying, I don't know how I got here, it's like I can see the thread of, like, what the Lord was going to do. Like, I studied communications and communication in school, never thinking I'll be communicating the gospel on a platform. But I think that also played a role in it as well. Prior to moving to LA, I experienced a level of church hurt that I think ultimately the average person would have walked away from God, their faith, and church in general. But I think that time in my life, I developed God's heart for people. I think I got a layer of understanding of how God loves us unconditionally. And I think that shaped the passion that I communicate the gospel with is like, man, I love Jesus a lot and he's really, really real to me. And I want people to experience that version of Jesus despite how they've encountered him through people. And so I think I, at the time, I did not understand why I had to walk through that. But I think on the, on this end of it going like, oh, God was building and developing me to be able to carry I don't know, a certain level of anointing as well because I journeyed through that. I think it produced a level of anointing that I have to share the things that I do.

Now, besides the book, the release date is June 24th. What is the next yes he's asking you to give right now?

Ooh.

It's all about the nervous energy pent up at that laugh. It's like that, I really don't want to talk about it, but I'm laughing. Oh, man.

Because, ooh, because I feel like, I don't know specifically. My lease is up here in a couple of months. And I feel like really strongly like my time in LA is up. And that makes me sad. So I think it feels like a general statement, but I feel like the yes he's asking for now is the same one he gave me 2 years ago. It's like, could you just trust me? And that's really hard because I'm like, bro, we just got out of this cycle of like not knowing, putting my stuff in storage and not knowing where I'm going. And I feel like he's like, let's do it again. And I'm like, no, I really thought we were headed to like some stability. Like, and I do think that this yes will lead to that. Like, because I'm ready for a family. Like, I'm ready to be married. I'm ready to have children. I'm ready to settle and not be on planes every week. And so I think with that, comes like a, will you trust me? And so it looks like not really knowing or having a clear path and having to tell my parents like, yeah, I'm not going to renew this lease, but I don't know where I'm going because they probably want some stability for you too. Oh, oh, they— I'm sure they are over it. They're like, girl, now you gotta stop. And I, I just think, I don't know, I don't know why the Lord picked me to be the person who keeps exemplifying that the God we read about in the Bible is still moving that same way. But I would really like some stability. But I really feel like God's in another, like, can you trust me season? And I'm like, I have this far. So I guess— you know how you go through something and you like, OK, got it. Got the lesson. We got all the things. And I'm like, OK, now we moving. And he's like, This your life.

Ugh.

And so I'm embracing that as best as I can.

There's so many things here that I want to dissect. One of them is you're like, I want stability, you know, being on planes every other weekend. And there are a bunch of women, young women specifically, who are going to watch this and be like, what are you complaining about? Like, that's great. Like, you're out there. I mean, women who, period, just would love to have a life where, you know, the little jet setting looks attractive. And sometimes we make it look attractive with what we put online. And then the other part of that is, you know, young women who have made— and I think this is unfortunate— but who have made achieving some level of ministry, that jet-setting ministry level, a little bit of an idol. Like, if I'm serving in my local church, teaching a Bible study, and 20 women come, that's not impactful if I'm not on a plane, on a stage with a mic, you know, at an event. So, I would love for you to speak to that woman who's like, but I want the life you have. Like, I'm watching you live it. I'm watching your podcast. I'm watching you teach, preach, be on— I'm watching you, and I'm not understanding why you wouldn't be satisfied with that or why you would want something different than that.

Yeah.

So speak to that woman who's looking at you and listening to you in disbelief right now.

Yeah, like, girl, what are you saying? Um, it's interesting because I think, I don't know, 6 or 7 years ago, I probably would be saying the same thing. But I like almost envy people who get to serve in their local church and go every week. And like, I miss that because I'm always on the go. I don't get that opportunity all the time. And so I would say like, it's not that I'm unsatisfied. I just think I'm in a place where I'm saying like, okay, God, I've experienced you work in my life this way where I've gotten to live my dreams. Because as a kid, I didn't dream to travel the world to preach, but I did— like, I used I used to always say, like, I don't want to live anywhere. I just want to be on a plane and go from coast to coast. And now I'm like, Lord, I do want to live somewhere. I do want to live somewhere. I take that back. So I think that I would say that I'm not dissatisfied. I would say that I've enjoyed this season, but I also am open to whatever else God wants to do in my life. And if it means settling down a little bit, I think I have a little different perspective because I never wanted this, like, as it relates to, like, a platform or preaching. Everything I've done that people get to see has been a result of me saying yes and ending up there. Like, it wasn't something I was pursuing. Like, I think when I first met you, I was a producer on a women's talk show. Like, that for me, that was my dream. Like, being able to produce content and be creative. And then I end up in some of the same places with the people I was serving in that capacity. And so I think that I get this question all the time, like, What do you say to a person who wants to be like you or be where you are? And I would say, ask the Lord to kill that ambition and just want to be with him and just want to be wherever he wants to put you. Because that, that has been my thing. Like, getting here— I didn't get here because I pursued the platform. I got here because I pursued God in a way that said he could trust me with the platform because he knows at any moment I will walk away from it. I have no I have no problem with the next yes being God saying, okay, go join this local church and serve there. Don't even join the staff, just serve there. And that's what I'm doing in this season right now. Like, these last 5 months, starting the year off, I haven't been traveling as much, maybe once or twice a year— and I mean a month. And I've been going to a church. I go to discipleship every Monday morning at 9 o'clock with the pastor, um, and I just started serving on the women's ministry. I hosted this this weekend and they didn't pay me. Like, that has been the most fulfilling thing in this season, that I could be a part of a community where I'm getting fed and I have friends at church and I can say hi to them. Like, that has been— I think once you get in this swing of being an itinerant minister, you miss the little things you used to complain about. And so I think, like, being okay with whatever God wants to do with your season and not minimizing where you are, because I love that you said that, like, hosting a Bible study and only 20 people show up that, that means that God trusted you to steward the lives of those 20 people that showed up. And that is a gift, is the same as if you got to speak on a stage to 20,000. And how faithful you are with showing up every week and studying like you were gonna preach to 20,000 for that same 20 is gonna make the difference with how much God will trust you with.

So much, so much, so much, so much. Um, Now, you said my parents are pastors, so you would think— one would think, oh, they get this too. They're like, yes, Minister, travel the world. Oh, God is moving you on. Yay! Follow where he's leading. How can we pray you through? And they're looking at you because you're the last of 10. Okay, they're looking at you like, we need this baby girl to get her act together. Like, there's that— I mean, I'm hearing that familiar parental, but when you gonna settle down? When you're gonna get planted and be still? So we often think that— and I say we generally— but we often think that if you come from a Christian family, especially if your parents are in ministry, and, and there are a lot of assumptions that we all make. There are people that make— have made, I'm sure, assumptions of you as a pastor's kid, what you should do, how you should do it, when you should do it. And then There are people that are in the church that make assumptions, or they understand ministry, but you would assume that parents in ministry would get it, that they would have gotten the memo too, that they are— that the Lord is confirming in their heart exactly everything that you're doing. So you're doing something good, but I can imagine as parents are just like, okay, but what's next? And why are you not settled? How have you dealt with that? Often we talk about people that, you know, maybe they're a Christian and God is leading them and they're trying to be obedient and their family doesn't get it because their family's not saved. Their family doesn't follow the Lord. So we expect there to be separation there and understanding. But what about when your people do follow the Lord and we are not on the same page about what's supposed to be happening in my life? They probably going to watch this interview, so be careful, but tell the truth.

No, no, no, no. And they know. I think we've got into a better place. But I always say, when I first quit my job, ooh, that was rough for all of us. I think I even got to a point where I had to limit talking to them because it would make me depressed because they would be like, so what's next? What's the plan? What are you doing? What was happening right now? So are you applying for a job? You're not applying for a job. So we're just waiting? Are you going to live? It would just be so much. So many questions, and I'm like, I don't have any answers to any of this. Um, and so I think it's really, really tough. I think one thing I always say is that in steps of obedience, everybody's not gonna get it, and sometimes you just have to let the fruit of your yes speak. So now, 2 years later—

hold on, hold on, let me write that down. Let the fruit of your yes speak. I had to make sure I captured that. Okay, keep going.

Yeah, because I think sometimes it— there's two things, right? Like, it could be discouraging to you because people aren't agreeing. And so I was really, really careful. Like, that season of my life, I always say I've never been pregnant, but I had a lot of friends who've been pregnant. But I treated that season like a first trimester, like a mother would a first trimester. She doesn't eat everything, she doesn't go everywhere, she's really, really careful, she doesn't tell anybody. And that's the same way I treated that season because I couldn't allow myself to miscarry what God had entrusted me. So it meant like only— I talk to my parents every day, but in that season, it meant talking to them once a week and saying, I'm still alive. I'm still breathing. Just keep praying for me. And it was because their natural response to my life is to cover me and to protect me. So they just want to know, like, how they can help. And I just didn't have language for that. And so I think I had to be OK with them not understanding. Maybe not even supporting and recognizing that, like— and sometimes I feel like we got in that position because I think in that season, God wanted to be the only provider. Like, he needed me to know, you need to depend on me. So even where sometimes it's easy to take a step when I'm like, oh, my daddy got me. Like, if this don't work out, like, my daddy is going to come in. He going to make sure my bills are paid. And I got to a certain place where I was like, no, I didn't have that as an option. Like, I had to genuinely rely on the Lord to provide. And so I think, like, the truth is they are not always going to get it. But now, after me taking those steps and then them seeing the fruit of it, now I'm about to take that step again. And now they are supportive because they've seen God cover me. They've seen God provide for me. So now it's like, OK, God, she doesn't belong to us. She belongs to you. And however you need us to support her, like, we're here. And so it made the world of a difference. But the first time, we— ooh, it was rough. It was like rough. I remember my mom, like, having a dream. And she's like, the Lord told me. To leave you alone. I said, thank you, Lord, because could you get your people? Because they are on my neck. And she's like, she's like, I have to do that. She's like, it is out of concern, but I have to let you take this journey. And so sometimes we waste a lot of time trying to explain something to people that they will never understand. They just need to see you take the step, and they need to watch God show up. And then I don't have to explain it to you. I let the fruit speak, girl.

Okay. Sidebar. Changing channels. Changing channels. I'm curious. Inquiring minds want to know, what does— well, before I ask that, in this next season, and you may not know the answer to this, but do you anticipate that the location may change, but the mission will not? And maybe the velocity may change, but the mission may not. Do you still believe that a part of your calling is speaking, preaching, carrying that message? Is there anything you know about the next season? Even if there's a lot that you don't, is there anything you know? One of the best things about the summer is it gives you plenty of time to get ready and to prepare for the fall. What's coming in the fall, you might ask? Oh, let me tell you, the Sister Circle Live, October 17th and 18th. It's an opportunity to gather with me in Dallas and some some friends that I'd love to introduce you to. Great teaching, great podcast, great workshops, all designed to help you focus on living intentionally as a woman of faith. It's never too early to prepare for the year to come. So we use October as a way to start to get focused and intentional so that you can make decisions about what you want to do as your life continues to move forward. So we're going to talk about what it means to make your mark and what it means to make your mark specifically in the area of your finances. In your abundant mindset and getting your affairs in order. So super practical, super inspirational, and super fun. October 17th and 18th, the Sister Circle Live. I'd love to see you in the room. Register today.

I think that— I think the mission won't change. I think that, like, I can share my prayers for this season, which have been like, God, I need some level of stability to do ministry the way, like, effectively. I think so much of my life right now exists around where I go and how often I go. And I'm like, Lord, this isn't going to work anymore. Now, I used to pray that the Lord would release me to get a job so I could get out of ministry. I'm like, I don't want to do this no more. Give me a job. I will go work at Target at this point. And so now I'm like, anything but this. And I'm like, and Target, they be paying good. So I'm like, I think now I'm in a season where I'm like, okay, God, like, I want to, I want to take this serious. I want to, I want to scale what I do, but I want to have the freedom to be able to do it and be able to do ministry and speak what I need to speak in obedience to you and not feel like, I don't know, bound by like, I need to eat or I need to, you know what I'm saying? And so I think like for me, That is my heart. Um, and so I think it wouldn't change. I think we'll just get in a place where I could be more stable, um, so I could do ministry the way I want to and on the level in which— because now I think the vision is expanding and I can see God like giving me downloads and I'm going like, how's that gonna happen?

Exactly, exactly. I'm with you.

Yeah, I'm with you.

And people look at what you do and they don't understand what it requires to get it done. They can see your potential, they can see your giftedness, and don't know why you can't pull the next lever. Because pulling the next lever requires resources, support, and people and all kinds of things that you may not have in that moment. So I totally, I totally get that. When it comes to your preparation, and I'll get off of the specific kick, but what does that look like for you to No, this is the next message I'm supposed to be working on. And what does it look like for you to prepare? What does study and preparation look like for you delivering a message?

That's a good question. Um, so sometimes, like, I could just be— I don't know, I take walks around my neighborhood, and sometimes I could just be walking or like sitting in my house, and I feel like the Lord will like drop a story or a thought, like, and I'll always write it down. And sometimes there have been moments where it's been as specific as like, this message for this place. And I haven't even gotten invited to speak at that place yet. And so I'll just be like, okay, Lord. And so I think usually it starts with like a thought or a message that the Lord wants to say. And then I have a lot of time, usually, sometimes, not really, but like in my study time, it looks like unpacking that. So like if it's a story, um, say like Moses and the burning bush, right? Like, um, because I feel like that's something I just recently got, and to call the sermon like Who Me? So I got the thought like, who me? And then I know that the text is like Moses's encounter with the burning bush. So now I'm gonna like sit with that. I'm gonna read that story in every version, uh, that like I study. So like ESV, NIV, the Amplified, like CSB. I'ma just I'mma dive in. I'm gonna, um, and I want to learn the story. Like, I want to ask questions of the text. I'm like, well, why did he do this? And why did you say that? Like, I'm just— so for me, it's just like a discovery moment in the first, right? Like, not really what I want to say or points. I'm like trying to learn the story, and I want God to teach me the story from his perspective. So that like happens a lot. So like, I'll read it over and over every day. I'm gonna play it when I go to sleep, like my Bible app. If I'm in the car, I'm going to play it there because I want to learn the story through and through. And then from that point, I think then I start to say, okay, God, what do you want to say with this story? And so I kind of reverse engineer. I go to like, what's the last— what do we want people to walk away with? And then kind of build it from there. So I actually don't preach with a lot of notes. And I think that's probably why I learned the story so much. So because I'm one of those people, if I have notes, I'm going to be so focused on what my notes say, I'm not going to be in the moment. So I typically build notes internally, I guess. So it's like, okay, God, what's the message? Like, what do you want to say here? And then we go back and we build it. And then I highlight messages. I mean, like scriptures that would be a point. And then there's either like a story that I have or a story from like experience that I could draw from and then kind of go from there. But I don't typically preach with notes, so that's why I think the process is what it is.

It sounds very immersive, so that by the time you get there, basically you've been, you've been soaking in it. So by the time you get there, it's just pouring out of your skin. You don't have to work. Yep, it's just there.

No, it's just— and yeah, and it— I think that also gives space for the Holy Spirit to do what he wants to do in the room. There have been so many times where I've studied a text and then I get this random analogy in the moment and it sometimes shocks me. I'm like, that was good. I didn't know we were going to go there. But I think, yeah, I want to become one with it. And then since going to seminary, I think there's some added steps. So now I want to know historical context and background and who's the author talking to and what was going on during that time. I remember when I first started going to seminary, I was like, I'm giving people facts they do not care about. Not matter. And I was like, okay, but y'all don't care about this. But just so you know, like, this is what was happening. And so I think, like, because I always— I want to, like, you know, and I honor the text in its original context, and I never want to, you know, sometimes we miss it, but as best as I can, like, I want to, you know, be prepared with that as well.

That's so good. That's so good. When you're not preaching, when you're not writing books, when you're not doing content online. What are we doing? What are we doing with our lives?

What are we doing? Uh, FaceTime with my friends all the time.

Um, is this— okay, so somebody told me this the other day. So of course, when I was growing up, we'd have the phone. The phone had a cord to the wall. Um, so we thought we were really something when it was cordless and you could just walk around the house. But the point is, my dad would walk by the room and be like, are you still on the phone? So the other day I was around somebody and they were like, these kids are just on FaceTime, just walking around with the phones in their hand while they do this thing. So is that what we're talking about? Or you talking about sitting there on your computer having—

No, no, no, no, no, no. We can't— we not sitting. Like, we got to walk around the house. I also have a tripod for it. Sometimes I set it on the tripod or I turn it on my iPad because— or we like, so I'm scrolling. They're on FaceTime on the iPad. Maybe we're watching TV at the same time. Like, that is like an all-the-time thing. Like, it's how we— it makes no sense, but a lot of my closest friends don't live in LA. And then even my best friend lives in LA, but she has a husband and a child. So we just FaceTime all day. I love to shop for shoes.

So not everything, just shoes.

Yeah, sneakers. I'm like a sneaker person. And then I— so my favorite store to go to is Zara. So I will just go to Zara, go to the mall. What else am I doing? Eating. I love to go out and eat with my friends. And karaoke is a thing I love to do to decompress. I'm going to go to karaoke with my friends or like game night. I'm like, I'm really chill. Like sitting in the house doing nothing is exciting for me. Like binge watching, watching old shows. Like A Different World is my favorite show. So I could literally turn that on and just go for it all day.

Hey y'all, it's almost officially summer at the recording of this video. We are just a couple of days away from June 21st, the official first day of summer of 2025. Here's what that means. That means it's time for Summer of Sisters. So whether you're watching this video in June or July or August, we'd love for you to join us in the inner circle.

Why?

Because we have fun during the summer. The first month we're gonna have a Move and Groove Challenge where there's accountability for keeping your body moving and doing your body good. In July, we'll move into accountability for spending. Stashing our cash is what we're gonna do. And then in August, y'all, we gotta clean up. Decluttering our lives, our spaces, our minds, our homes. It's time to make things a little cleaner so you can function a little better. The Summer of Sisters is all about having a good time, being practical, and also also being better together. So if you'd like to join us in the Inner Circle this summer, go to thesistercircle.com/innercircle. Not only will you receive our special challenges, but you'll also be in the room for our weekly mentoring and all the other great fun. We love to see you on the inside. See you soon. What would surprise you for the people who've gotten to know you, um, online, podcasting, even if they see you speak, I think you've shared a little bit about your, when I'm not on a stage, when I'm not, you know, presenting, when I'm not preaching. But what do you think when someone is getting to know you that surprises them about you? Is there anything?

Yeah, I think people would be shocked to know that I'm not as confident as I present. So I think that when I show up online, even how I preach or deliver, I really be scared out of my mind. I second guess. I live in my head often. And sometimes I have to call somebody to talk me off the ledge. I get nervous a lot. I don't always feel like I measure up even to expectations people have from me, not even from a comparison standpoint, but just myself. I think people would be shocked to know I struggle in that area, like, of like believing I can do something. I think I'm also just one of those people who's just like, well, we here now, like, let's just go. But underneath all of that is a lot of like, you sure, God? Me? You sure I could do this? Sure you want me to do this? Like, and I think sometimes how people engage in my content, it feels like I'm really, really confident, like, I know I was born to do this. And I don't always feel like that, more often than not.

Do you feel like you have two personas and you drum up the one you need when it's time? Do you have a Sasha Fierce, basically?

I call it a switch, right? It's like— I do too. Yeah, it's like— I mean, literally, I will sit in a seat right before I get on a platform, I'm losing it on the inside. I mean, I'm going like— I'mma fail. These people are going to laugh at me. Nothing's going to work. Like, words aren't going to go together. I'mma forget everything. And it's like the moment I step on the stairs, it's like a switch goes off, I would say, where I'm no longer conscious of Brenda. Like, for me, it feels like all of those moments leading up, I was so, like, inwardly focused. And I think walking up to that platform, it goes like, this isn't about me. Like, I'm going to trust that the Lord is going to meet me where I end. And I just ended at the bottom of those stairs. So now, like, the weight's on him. So I think, like, there is, like, a shift, you know? And then my friends will tell you, like, the people that travel with me, the moment I'm done, I'm like, "Was it good? Did that make sense? 'Cause I think I messed up. 'Cause I think, like, did it connect?" And they be looking at me like, "Brenda, you just killed it." I'm like, "Did I kill it? 'Cause I don't know what I just said." And it didn't, like— So it is, it is like a switch. It is like a, "Whew, child, we made it." That is the funniest thing ever.

So, like,— to your point, I think that there's a level of that, which I think is good because it keeps you humble. So getting back to my other question, it was like, I can sniff insecurity a mile away. And I think that our lack of confidence, even if there's a switch to be flipped, it can be a hindrance if you don't know how to switch that flip. So or flip that switch. So I guess I'm wondering, how did you learn how to do that? And what do you think has built or led to you having greater confidence in general?

To your point about it being a hindrance is that I think I suffered the— I don't know, like the effects of it in my personal life, where because I had a lack of confidence and I wasn't regarding myself as highly as I should have. I just trusted myself in the hands of people who weren't— didn't have the capacity to handle me. And so I think because of that, I recognized that I had an improper view of myself. So I wasn't like— the same way I would protect my anointing or my greatest gift, I wasn't protecting Brenda like that. And so I started to pray like, God, I need your perspective of me. Like, how do you see me? And I need you to, like, ingrain that in me because I'm allowing people to mishandle me because I don't properly see myself. And I think sometimes, like, growing up, like, I never want to, like— I don't ever— like, I'm trying to think of the best way I can say it. Like, I don't want people to think I think I'm that person, you know? Like, but I think teaching myself that so much doesn't allow me to be like, girl, you are that person though. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, there needs to be a balance of like, not so much that it's arrogance, but enough that you have self-confidence, right? Like, there is a middle ground of like, no, you are something that deserves to be cared for. And also set the standard for how people should treat you. But entrusting myself to people who didn't have capacity was because I couldn't properly see myself and be like, no, actually, not from a place of arrogance, but these these people don't deserve me to be around them because they can't handle it. And so I think like, after doing that too many times, whether it was like relationships with friends or like relationships with guys, and it just be like, I'm tired of this. And I'm recognizing that I'm the reason this is happening. Because if I saw myself properly, I wouldn't have even invited these people in or decided to share all of who I am in that space when it didn't have capacity to handle it.

I was recently hanging out with our friend Dr. Anita, and I can't remember what we were talking about, but she said— she asked me a question and my response was, well, sometimes I know, I know, I know I'm too much. I know I'm a lot. And she said, in short, you know, sometimes we need to reframe what we're saying. Maybe you're not a lot for the room. Maybe the room is not big enough for you. And I think the way— I love how you said, "Lord, like, help me to see myself like you see me." 'Cause the problem is, I think believers, in trying to make sure we are operating in humility, we overcompensate. 'Cause we are royalty. You know, 1 Peter, we are royalty, royal priesthood, chosen nation. We are royalty. And the ability to see us like Ephesians 1 says, can help you to see yourself in right regard without seeing yourself beyond regard. And for sure, I think that's the key. What are some things that you did to embroil yourself in the knowledge of understanding and for it to sink into your soul how God sees you? How did you— how did you absorb that and soak in that?

I think I started to pay attention, not pay attention. I started to receive compliments when people would give them to me. Because back to that humility thing, right? It's like, ah, it was the Lord, right? And it's like, or the Lord is using this person to amplify what he's already said about me. And so I started to believe when those— even my parents, my parents be hyping me up. And I'm like, y'all got to chill with that. Relax. It makes me uncomfortable. But it's like, also, I feel like God used that to say, like, I know this is coming from a person, but this is also what I'm saying about you. And not into a place where you get arrogant, but I'm using them to be the lens. Like, they, they— what they're saying is like my lens for who you are. And like, no, you, you didn't study to be here, but I put you here and I trust you with this. And like, I think just kind of receiving that, and I think being able to say, like, I think also, I think being able to embrace the impact that my decisions or choices or content was making in the lives of people, I think that was huge. It was like, no, what I do does matter. Like, and somebody is 16 and they're like, hey, I'm a new believer and you sharing on that podcast is really helping me grow closer to Jesus. That is, that's God's way of saying like, no, this is what you're supposed to be doing. And so I think I started to allow like seeing the transformed lives through what God has entrusted me to do be the stamp that says, no, you're right where you're supposed to be and you are enough. And where you end is where he makes up the deficit, right? So he's not asking me to be perfect. He is asking me to be present enough to step into what he's asking me to do. So I think those are some of the things. Um, and then just, yeah, I think owning it, like not shrinking in spaces, right? Like, I think when I'm invited into a space, even if it feels bigger than me, I'm going, okay, if I'm here, there's something that God wants to do and he entrusted me with this moment and I'mma just like let it ride. So it's been those like stepping into it and letting, like coming out on the other side. I preached at Jada's church right before your dad. And I was losing my mind. I was like, "I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore." I was like, "Y'all sure?" I think I could just sit here and listen. We don't even got to do this. I'll actually give you the honorarium back. Just take it back. I'll just sit here. And I just kept telling myself, "There is a reason that Brenda..." Brenda was invited here. Like, and this room needs Brenda to be all that Brenda is. And I just remember going up there, just blocking it all out and just being myself, cracking jokes and all this. And your dad gets up there and he goes, "Thank you, Brenda, for what you shared. You're a gift to the body." I'm never going to forget that because I was losing my mind. And Jada is my favorite Bible teacher. So I had to preach in front of both of them. I was losing it. And I was like— I was like, Lord, what did I do to deserve this? Like, I don't— and I feel like you're torturing me. And I remember Jada hugging me, and she was like, she was like, you were scared? Yes, yes, yes, I was. Yes, yes, I was scared. Absolutely. But I feel like even moments like that, I think, are like winks for— I mean, come on, man. Like, Pastor Tony Evans is a— Dr. Tony Evans is a general in the faith. I'm a church kid, so just to be there, but also for him to affirm it. Not that I needed that, but I'm grateful that God used him to affirm what he had already said about me. So I think little moments like that feel like winks, right? Like winks, like God's like, no, like, you're right where you belong.

Mm.

Wow.

Wow. I know that The Journey of Yes dives into this concept of transformation that happens because of obedience. And I know that your prayer is that people will pick up this book and learn from this year-long journey of writing this book and getting it out the door. If you had to say, what is your one hope for your reader? Like, listening to you there, if they didn't know who you were before, a lot of people do, but some people were being introduced to you on this podcast. And they're going, am I going to go pick that up? Am I going to learn more from her journey? What is the one thing that you either hope or feel like they will come away with from getting to know you more in that work?

Something that, like, I live by is that obedience to God is not about what you get on the other side of it, but the God you meet through it. I grew up a PK, but I did not know God for real until I started saying yes to him. And he started to reveal himself. So I said yes to forgive, and I learned God as a healer and from, like, depression and anxiety. And those are things I wouldn't have experienced God being had I not said yes. So yeah, I've got to live an amazing life and do some amazing things. None of that trumps the way I know God, the way I trust him. Like, he's beyond the God I read about on the pages. He's beyond the God I've known him to be to my parents. Like, I know him for real. And I just feel like obedience is an invitation to do life with God. Because you're going to go, "I can't do this. There's no way I could do this." And he's like, "That's the point. The goal is that you do it with me." So good.

Well, listen, I'm a Brenda Palmer fan. I think you're amazing. I was so honored that you let me be on your podcast. And I'm honored that you said yes to being on mine.

No, absolutely. That was one of my favorite episodes. I was like, oh, you are reading. You are reading me. You are reading, getting me together. Please, please do that. Oh, well, no, thank you for having me. This is— I'm a fan of yours as well. You just— even when I used to have you in the pod in Better Together, I'm like, hey, she going to be real. Like, I love that. You just going to kick it straight. And I love that. And we need that. So thank you for having me.

Yeah, no, it's my pleasure. And I'm excited about your book. This is the first of many. I'm excited about a new season of exciting, more yeses, but also a little stability. It's interesting how some things that we didn't want, we start to want. And so, Psalms 37:4, "Delight yourself in the Lord, he'll give you the desires of your heart." And sometimes we think, "But you're not." But that's because he sometimes has to catch up our desires. For the thing that actually— it's, you know, anyway. So, I believe that in all of that, of course, he will meet the desires of your heart and while he's also stretching you and increasing your capacity. And this is just a rock in the river, you know, it's just a rock in the river. It's the first of a few, if not many books. And I'm excited for you. I'm excited about what your life of yes teaches other people who wanna live a life of yes. And this is what we do. We share what we learn and we grow by being connected. So thanks in advance for giving us a window into your life and a window into your life of yes. It'll be great. Okay. I told you, I told you that interview was going to be fire and amazing. And I hope, in fact, I know you got something out of it. Brenda Palmer, her wisdom is amazing. I also know that she said quite a few times in the interview, God told me, God, you know, he convicted me, he led me. And I know that if you're like me, you want to know how to obey God and how to obey God's voice. That means you have to know how to hear it, how to listen, and how to interpret when he's trying to tell you something. So if that's you and you want to know more about that, I do have a video about how you can hear God's voice. And if you want to learn more about that, check that video out, listen, it'll help you. The other thing is she talked a lot about confidence and developing a confidence in who you are because of who God says you are. You are. If you need to work on your confidence meter, I have a book called 100 Days of Discovering the Gift in You. This is a journey. It's a little devotional that has lots of room for you to write in it and readings that are short enough for you to get them done. And it's designed for you to see what God sees in you. Because if you're going to do what you're supposed to do in this world, you have to agree with God about who he says you are and what the gifts are that he's given This is a tool that you can find out more about by going to chrystalevanshurst.com/100days. All right. Don't forget to like and subscribe to the channel and share the video if it helped you. And I will see you around next time.