The Minimal Mom on Simplifying Your Life | Decluttering Your Stuff | And Living with Less

Y'all, I have stuff issues. Can I just say that? I literally, uh, and figuratively need to declutter my life. We moved 4 times in a matter of 10 years, and y'all, I moved the same 10 boxes every time. The first house we lived in, we did not intend to live in, um, for as long as we did, and so there were some things I put in boxes And I said, I'll declutter it when we move. And then when we moved, it was a big rush and it was into a temporary situation. So I didn't have time to straighten those boxes out before we moved. And I didn't unpack them or straighten them out because that move was temporary. And then the next move unintentionally was temporary. So now we are in our fourth home. My husband and I have been married for 22 years, but again, in a matter of 10 years, we moved 4 times. And those 10 boxes, still are in need of decluttering. This is what happens when we don't intentionally make room in our life to get rid of the stuff we don't need. We just add more stuff and make the journey from one season of our life to another more challenging and more difficult because you gotta lug your stuff. So I'm looking at all the things you're looking at, uh, potentially the pounds of paper and the, um, the stuff that belongs to the kids and which stuff am I going to keep and not going to keep, and the overflowing drawers because I need to cull the clothes fit, and the clothes in my closet that I don't really wear, why are they still in here? And the pots that I don't use, and how many dishes do we need? That's the literal stuff. The figurative stuff is how that impacts my brain. What clutter do I have in my brain because my literal life is untidy? I am not a messy person by nature. I am not a lazy person by nature. I am not a person who is nasty in how I live my life. However, I get busy and I just run out of time to pick things up or put them away, and then over time it does create a mess and a situation I don't like. So I, like you, have people that I follow, and sometimes I follow those people on social media like Instagram. I'm not on TikTok yet. I own my TikTok name, but I haven't done anything with it yet. I'm afraid to. I'm afraid I'll get sucked in. But I follow people on Facebook, and I follow people on Twitter, and I follow people on YouTube. And I believe you can learn anything on YouTube. YouTube is like YouTube University, okay? And I learned things on there. And one of the people that I follow, and I followed for a long time, is The Minimal Mom. Her real name is Dawn Madsen, and I reached out to her one day, like cold turkey, like she don't know me, and I said maybe she'd join me on the podcast, and she did. So the first thing you need to know, she's got hundreds and hundreds of thousands of subscribers YouTube, and you should watch her. You will learn how to live a leaner life that will help you to have a lovelier life— less stress, less stuff. But also, I had her on my podcast today so I selfishly could ask her questions. She was a delight, and it is my pleasure and my privilege to introduce her to you. Not only have I fangirled her on YouTube, learned so much from her on her channel, as I do with so many things on YouTube University, but I've also learned not only what to do but why to do it. We all need peace in our home. We need peace with our people, but we need peace with our stuff. And if you have boxes like I do, or rooms like I do, or closets like I do, or cabinets like I do that need a culling, maybe it's because you need to be honest about the culling that you need in your life to bring you peace. What you'll find— what I found— is that when I start culling my things and I experience a level of peace with my stuff, It makes me want to cull other things, sometimes relationships, sometimes conversations, sometimes activities, because I just only want to carry in my life what I have to carry. I don't want to carry the extra weight. My hope that my conversation with Dawn today introduces you to her, helps you to understand what it is to have your own journey for decluttering, the basics of decluttering, but more importantly, bringing peace to your home and to your life. And my hope that this conversation starts you on your own journey of learning what it is to live in peace. So let's get into our conversation with Miss Dawn Madsen. Oh, I almost forgot. Listen, not only does she have a YouTube channel, but she's the author of Declutter Your Home in 15 Minutes Today. There's a workbook, there's a course. She's got another course called Take Your House Back. So take your time, go to her website, The Minimal Mom, check out her YouTube channel, and if you need more, grab her book, grab the workbook. Dig all the way in. Listen, because life is too short to be carrying stuff with you you don't need. All right, for real now, let's get into it. So y'all, every now and then I get an opportunity to invite someone on the podcast, um, that I fangirl a little bit about. And my guest today is one of those people. So if you if YouTube for you is a thing, I know that you have the people that you follow. I know you have the topics that you're interested in. I know that you have the things that you're trying to learn or the problems that you're trying to solve. And if you're like me, you'll go on YouTube and you kind of binge search, and then you'll find your way to certain people that you're like, then you binge their content because you just can't get enough of them. So my guest today is one of those people for me. So I'm really excited to welcome Dawn Madsen, um, Hurst, otherwise known as The Minimal Mom, to the podcast today. Welcome, Dawn.

Thank you, Chrystal. This is so fun to be with you.

Well, I want you to know the one thing that's on my list that I haven't done, but that I was the most wowed about. In fact, I'll probably do it today now that I'm bringing it back to my mind, was you having your kids use mason jars for their glasses and you bought these tops for the mason jars. And I was like, She's not afraid that the kids are going to break them. And right when I was thinking that, you were like, yeah, and they're just made well and they just don't really break. It's not something I really had to worry about. I mean, you have the most, um, well, one of the things I love about your, your channel, but just about how you present, because there's a lot of decluttering, you know, minimal living people everywhere, right? But what, one of the things I love about your presentation is that it's doable. It's doable and it's real livable. Now I know that, um, there are people who even right now as I'm talking are Googling you like, okay, Minimal Mom YouTube, who is this person? But I would love to just start with them getting to know you. So how did you end up, um, why are you the Minimal Mom? Why are you a natural minimalist? Like, did you just maximize something that you were already good at or did you have a problem that you were trying to solve?

Yeah, no, that's a good question. So I grew up on a farm in Minnesota, central Minnesota, and we had very little growing up. I was glad— I mean, our needs were always met. We never went without food or anything like that, so I'm so grateful for that. But then when I became an adult and a mom and I started having my own household, now I found like if I went to garage sales and thrift stores, like I could kind of get all the things, you know, and like you could find most things. And I mean, we didn't even have Marketplace back then. Like, that would have been horrible, right? But like garage sales, thrift stores, and what else? When you're a new mom, no one actually tells you how much you do need or don't need. And so I just thought kids need lots of clothes and lots of toys, and, and then you'd find kitchen gadgets and different things. And so I was just acquiring all of this stuff, and I just thought that's what running a household looked like, right? And so it was about 8 years ago, we had 4 kids ages 4 and under, and I, um, got to be a stay-at-home mom. And I would just like— I just remember distinctly like the afternoons, I would have this conflict all the time of like, okay, my husband Tom is gonna be home from work in a couple hours. Like, I should pick up, I should get dinner going, then when he comes home from work it'll look like I did something all day, right? Even though we all know like I was busy all day, but like, you know, but the house just was trashed. And so Like, then it would be like an hour before he was gonna get home, and then it was like 15 minutes. And I'm like, okay, if you just like mad dash, you could at least get some of this stuff picked up, right? And it was just like this torment. And I was not enjoying being a stay-at-home mom. I, I knew it was like a blessing and I should be appreciating this season and time with my kids. I did not enjoy it. So one day I was on Pinterest, I don't know, I was looking for like a meal planning solution or something, and I came across this podcast and it had Joshua Becker on it who is a well-known minimalist. And in that podcast he shared his story where he says, did you know that you don't have to have all of this stuff? Did you know you don't have to have all of this stuff? And my thought was, no, Joshua, I didn't know that. Like, I thought this was just all of this stuff that you have when you're a mom and when you're running a household. And, uh, there was just something about it though. I think I was so desperate that I'm like, well, I at least need to learn more about this and figure out what this minimalism thing is and what he's talking about. And so I started Googling it, and honestly, 8, 9 years ago, there was not a lot out there, and especially not what it looked like for families. You could find, you know, single people in the city in these sleek condos, but not for families. I am like, how many forks, how many toys, how many pieces of clothing? And so I vowed from that day on, I'm like, if I ever get my house simplified. I am going to start a blog because back then you did blogs, right? I'm going to start a blog and I'm going to tell all the moms like how far they can go with decluttering. And so over the course of the next year, we got— I got rid of about 80% of our stuff, not touching any of my husband's things, just doing my stuff and the kids' stuff. Um, got rid of about 80% of our stuff and I have never looked back.

So the fear— and I'm gonna— I was gonna say, so the fear of many people, let's just be real, My fear is that I'm gonna get rid of something that I'm gonna need later, right? And so, and it has actually happened to me. I was a teenager and my room was junky and I had all this stuff in my closet. And I think I had this, these grocery bags of like all of my schoolwork at the end of the year just piled in there. And I went on this rampage to clean everything out. It's like, this is ridiculous. I was just throwing everything away. Well, years later, because I was thinking, there's this box of letters and cards. I don't ever look at these. And I tossed them. I'm like, oh my gosh, I should never have tossed that. And the fear is that it takes time to know whether you need it or not. So I'm gonna hold on to it until I know that I do. Um, so having had that experience and thinking, man, with a little bit more time and perspective, I would have known you can throw out most of that, but here's the ones that you should keep. You know, letters from my grandmother and that kind of thing. So, yeah. That's the fear. Like, it's a very real fear. Or right now, like, one of my challenges is that because I don't want— I've had the experience of a computer crashing and the photos that were on there that weren't backed up, I don't have them anymore. So I kind of have backup to the extreme and I probably have way too many hard drives with my stuff on there. But I'm like, but what if? But what if? So what do we do to deal with the but what if I need it later?

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. So I like to say that everything in your home is inventory that you have to manage. So every single item in your house is inventory that you have to manage. You have to care for it, you have to organize it, store it, keep it from being damaged from pests or water damage, remember that it's there. We feel very guilty if we have inventory that we forget about, or, you know, that thing where you get like really cute outfits for your kids but they don't fit right now, and so then you store them away, and then the next time you pull them out, they've already outgrown them, right? And then we have that like sinking feeling. And so every single item in our home is something that we have to manage. And as women, most of us are like the chief inventory managers in our home. And so you can imagine, as the inventory has crept up in your home, um, certainly over the last 3 years, it has like exponentially increased as we can get Amazon same day, um, you know, Dollar Spots, thrift stores, dollar store, Dollar General, everything, right? It has never been easier to acquire things, and many of us have been like self-medicating and getting through the difficulty of the last few years by buying stuff, right? So the inventory in our homes right now is at like record-breaking levels, and this is so stressful. You can scientifically look at the correlation between excess stuff, clutter, and stress hormones going up. And so what does this mean? This means that in our own homes, our that are meant to be a refuge, they're meant to be a safe place where we can let our guard down and we can just unwind and relax and recharge at the end of the day. It's not that anymore. It is keeping us in this low-level fight or flight all of the time. And so we are getting no reprieve, right? So everything is trade-offs. This is something I'm teaching my kids right now. Everything in life is trade-offs. So like I said, I decluttered 80— I would say now it's up to 85% of the stuff in our home. And guess what? My house is so peaceful. It is a reprieve. It is a retreat. It is a haven. When you come to my home, you can let your guard down. It is a safe place to be. But what's the trade-off? I have decluttered some things that we could have used. Like, we have 4 kids, we homeschool, we, we do all the things too, right? And so I have over the years decluttered a handful of things that we could have used, right? But the trade-off by me willing to part with that stuff and potentially make a mistake, the trade-off is that every day Hey, 24/7 I have a home that's peaceful. So for me, if I'm looking at the trade-offs, the risk of making a mistake, I say, you know what, that's a risk worth taking. That's okay. And I give anyone here permission to do so. And if you make a mistake, I say, I'm so sorry, and I forgive you, and we all forgive you, and it happens, and let's just keep moving forward.

That's so good. Okay, so, ah, what about the people? Because even if I decide to declutter, my husband's not decluttering. My kids are going to still bring paper in the door, you know what I mean? Like, they're gonna come with stuff. So, I mean, we homeschool too, but that doesn't stop the paper. You know, people think the paper is related to the school.

No, it's worse.

No, you know what I mean? Yeah. So, uh, people bring stuff in the door. One of the frustrating things I think about You know, anytime in life you make a decision, whatever that decision is, is when you don't get to control the full outcome because other people affect it. It's like a group project in school, or if you work on a team at work, you can make some decisions, but everybody else doesn't necessarily decide. So before we even get to how you manage other people's stuff, really, I want to deal with how you handle the efforts that you want to make that that people don't make easy for you to make because you have, you, you as the, you said we're the, we are the grand inventory keepers. We're, we're a lot of grand things, you know? And so when you make a decision in your home and everybody doesn't go along with that, how do you manage the, y'all are not going according to my system. What do you do with that?

Yes. Good question. So two things, I think. One is first we just start with our own stuff. So I focused on kitchen stuff because I did most of the cooking and kitchen management. My own clothing, my own craft projects and hobby stuff. And so even though my kids were young at the time, I wasn't asking anything of them that I wasn't doing myself. So then when it came time to simplify their clothing and their clothes and their toys, again, I had already been going through this process myself. So first we do it and we demonstrate it and we show that we are loosening our grip on stuff. And then we also share with them why? Why does this matter? Why are we doing this? So as I'm decluttering and simplifying, I'm talking this out with my kids. I'm saying, you know what I'm learning? I'm learning that when we have too much stuff in our house, it actually makes us feel kind of on edge or a little bit stressed out in our house. And you know what? Like as the mom, it's really important to me that our house feels peaceful. And I also, I want it to be really easy to pick up. You know how sometimes we kind of get in fights or arguments about who has to pick up what, and it's really stressful before people come over because we're all mad dashing to pick stuff up. Do you know what I'm learning? It doesn't actually have to be that way. So if we're all willing to let go of some things and get our house to a manageable amount, then that's going to make it so much easier for all of us.

Okay, so we're learning and we're gonna teach as we learn. But you know, the question that everybody wants to know is, how much stuff do I need? Like, if I'm going to And, you know, we have these— there's a spectrum of living with less, right? There's just the, I got to clean out the junk where the next step may be, okay, but I want to actually declutter a little bit, like even some things that aren't junk. I just don't need them. And then there's the other end of the spectrum where I am truly trying to live this minimalistic lifestyle because I don't want my stuff to strangle me and I don't want to, you know, pay to house it. I don't want to. So along that spectrum, Um, where do you even recommend— like, you jump straight into minimalism, like, right? You just jump straight into that.

So I did. I buy into things very easily. So, you know, like, I can't even watch an infomercial at night because I'm just like, I'll probably buy it, right? So, so I'm a pretty easy sell. My husband is not though, right? And I just looked at it like an experiment when I was doing it. I'm like, most of the stuff I'd gotten secondhand, we did not have expensive things at the time, so I'm like, yeah. Worst case I could acquire these things again. And so it was definitely an experiment, but there are a couple tools that we can use, right? So if you're like, I don't know exactly where the line is. So there's two questions I used when I was going through my house. One was, have I used this in the past year? So if I had used it in the past year for seasons, you know, winter, summer, spring, fall, if I had not used it in the past year, It was all— it's, if you look statistically, we only use 20% of our stuff day in and day out. So it's a, it's a pretty safe rule. If I haven't used it in the last year, I'm not going to use it in the coming year. And then I would also ask myself, do I know for sure I would use it in the upcoming year? So maybe it's something the kids are growing into, or we have, you know, some projects coming up. I'm like, yes, for sure I will use that. So, but if I hadn't used it in the past year and I didn't know for sure I was going to use it in the upcoming year, then I was willing to let that go. Now again, I'm, I'm pretty risk tolerant, I guess. So again, it wasn't as big of a deal to me. But if you're like, oh, what if I spent money on it? Like, I'm kind of attached to it, then we can use what we call a time will tell bin. So you just find like a Rubbermaid tote or an Amazon box around your house. And let's say you're going through your kitchen and you're like, oh, here's that gadget I bought at the Pampered Chef party. Do you guys have Pampered Chef? Where you— does everybody have Pampered Chef?

Yeah, I think everybody has Pampered Chef.

Yeah. So my friend invited me to her party. I had to go. I had to buy something, right? And the demonstrator, she made that chopper It looks so easy. And like, that was just going to save dinner time, right? Like, I'm going to get that. I'm going to cook all the time. It's going to be so awesome. And now here we are a year later. I've never taken it out of the box, or I used it one time and it was really difficult to clean, so I never used it again. Right. Or I didn't get the hang of it, but I spent money on it. So how can I just donate this? Right. Like, this was a high-quality investment here. So what we can do is we can put it into our Time Will Tell bin and we just set it aside. For a few months and just see if we miss it. And there is something really magical about creating this separation when we have it out of our sight, out of our living space for a few months. When you go back to revisit items in that bin a few months later, you're going to find that now you have data, like you have the facts that you were looking for. Do I use it? Would I miss it if it was gone and I had donated it? And you're going to more clearly be able to see like, no, I didn't miss it. And you know what? Keeping it is not putting the money back in my pocket. And so now I feel more comfortable donating those items.

Okay, so there's this dress in the back of my closet. I do— I have not worn it in the past year. I don't know if I'm gonna wear it in the year to come, but it's a dress that on occasion over the last 10 years I've probably worn 3 times because it's a special occasion dress. So what are the exceptions to the rules of if I haven't used it in a year? Are there any exceptions? And I know that this is where people get in trouble because then they make exceptions for everything, but are there any exceptions options that you use for I didn't use it in this past year, and I don't even know if I'm going to use it in the year to come.

Yeah, that's great. And you know, some people like keeping more inventory in certain areas. They're like, I like— I love going all out for Christmas, or I really enjoy fashion, and so I do want to have a little bit more than just the bare bones wardrobe. And so what I would ask you then is, how do you feel when you look at it? When you see it in your closet, is it I still don't fit into that dress. Oh, I need to lose weight so I can wear it again. Oh, I've spent money on it and I've never worn it. Or is it like, you know, I don't wear it too often, but when the next event comes, like, I'm putting that baby on and I'm going to look hot and like, I'm going to be so glad that I have it. And so many of us hang on to things because we're hoping to fit into it again, or we spent a lot of money on it with really no actual intention. Now, yours is different because you've actually worn it and you've enjoyed it. So then I would say, how many of those pieces of clothing do you want to keep? I would say it's reasonable to keep a few of those, but probably we don't want to keep 20, right? So then we make sure we're narrowing it down to the true favorites and the ones that we really enjoy, but most importantly, don't make us feel bad when we look at them.

That's good. That's good. Okay, so if I haven't used it, put it away. But on a daily basis, like, I'm— I mean, like, nitty-gritty in the kitchen How many plates do you have for your family? Like, can you walk me around your house a little bit and just, yeah, not everything, but kind of major things that people have too much of that in your experience personally, and as you've run into other people who are trying to declutter, what are the major pain point areas that it's like, start here and then move here. And if you can give me examples of what it looks for your, looks like for your family, you have 4 kids, you're a family of 6. What was that right number or that right amount in some of those areas for you? Just take us on a tour.

Yeah, that's a great question. So for the kitchen, we use the kitchen so much, or we should, right? If you don't like cooking or being in your kitchen, it's a really clear sign that you probably have too much inventory in there. So if we will step back and look at our kitchen and say, you know, I haven't really been intentional about everything in here, it's kind of just accumulated, and it's stuff I registered for my wedding and I've gotten over the years and the free and the things we get and say, you know what, I want my kitchen to serve me. I work my kitchen pretty hard, right? Like I want it to serve me. Then it helps us to have the right mindset when we're going in. So like dishes, we only have one place setting per person and then two extras in case we would have a guest stop by. And that's because we were not good at running the dishwasher every day. Like some people will say, well, we just run the dishwasher every day and it's not that big of a deal. We were not good at that. So what I say is, okay, we have to reduce the inventory. And now we have to wash the dishes at the end of the night, or someone is, you know, doesn't have a cereal bowl in the morning, right? And so for me, like, if especially an area where you're— you haven't had good habits in place, by lowering the inventory, it kind of forces us to stay on top of things. And I like that, right? Because I don't like doing dishes, and I could find a million other things to do in a day. But if we know we have to run it or we don't have dishes tomorrow morning, that is great accountability. Now you might say, well, we'll have 2 place settings per person because we do run it and we're home a lot. But certainly you don't need 4, you don't need 6, you don't need 20 coffee mugs if you only have 2 coffee drinkers in your home. Um, similarly with water bottles, if my kids each have 4 water bottles, they will lose 4 water bottles. If they only have 1, they actually take a lot better care of it. And so we start to cut this down. And what you're going to find is that if your cabinets and your drawers and your cupboards are only about half full, it is so much easier to put stuff away. It's so much easier to unload the dishwasher once it's done running, and your family is going to be more likely to put stuff away, and your kitchen then is going to stay tidier too because of it.

Okay, so y'all have one place setting for each family member plus two extra. Same thing for the cups, one cup for each family member.

You have two cups for each person. Yeah, and then one coffee mug per person.

Okay, so what does this look— we talked about clothes, we talked about the kitchen. Um, well, I'm curious, first of all, has your husband subscribed to this yet?

Good question. Yeah, so it took him about 5 years to come around to it. So again, going back to the question, like, how— the, the number 2 question I get answered is, how do I get my spouse on board? Number 1 question is about paper clutter, but, uh, number 2 is always, how do I get my spouse on board? And if you will start to demonstrate this in your areas, like, your half of the closet feels so much better because it's so simplified. Your half of the bedroom, your nightstand, your in the closet, the kitchen, whatever areas, you know, even the most like living room, family room, most of us have, you know, a lot of say of what goes in there. Uh, kids' toys, you've helped them to simplify it, their bedrooms. It is generally almost 98% of the time what I hear is it is just a matter of time until spouses come around. And I think I could have got Tom around sooner if I actually would have told him what I was doing. He honestly did not even know for the first year. He started noticing that the house was staying cleaner, which he really liked. Um, he's very sensitive to clutter and like anxiety and stress levels. Um, but if I would've let him in on it sooner, I think he would've come around faster.

Okay. So one of the things that I know can be challenging is that we make a decision to declutter, or we make a decision, I'm gonna minimalize my life and I'm gonna simplify. Uh, we make a decision that we're gonna get rid of junk. It's not even about decluttering, it's just that stuff is junk and I'm gonna get rid of it. And we start it and we don't finish it. Um, sometimes it's because because we made room for it on a weekend, we didn't finish it, and now we haven't gotten back to it. Other times it's that, um, we get overwhelmed by it and so we just can't. Um, I would love to know what you think a good rhythm is for, um, beginning this process to reduce this amount of stuff in your life. Are you like going whole hog, get yourself 3 weekends in a row and be done? Um, yeah, what is the—

no, I think you, you nailed the Hit the nail on the head. Yes, you nailed it because decluttering is actually very emotionally draining. Very. So I've often said like you're confronted with every wrong buying decision that you've ever made, right? When you go declutter, you're like, oh, I forgot about that. And I bought that and I thought that was going to solve things and it didn't. And I mean, we buy so many things, like we have good intentions. Often we think it's going to solve a problem. Like that's what marketing tells us, like buy this thing and it'll make your life better or easier in some way. And then we do, and then we feel guilty when we realize that it didn't make good on that promise. And so decluttering is actually very emotionally draining. And that's why often we get everything pulled out and then we lose steam and then we don't even have the energy to put it back again. And so what I recommend, and I have tested this with hundreds of women now, is that you work for 15 minutes a day and that's it. And you set the timer for 15 minutes, you select one small space, like one drawer, one shelf in the linen closet. One small section of your closet and you work to complete it. And so you set your sights on that space, you work to fully declutter it and get the donations out to the back of your car, get the trash thrown away so that at the end of 15 minutes you can look at that and say, this is better and I completed it. And that felt really good because we all, we all want motivation. We all want to be motivated to declutter our house, but where we get that from is momentum. From saying this was a good experience, this was a positive experience. And so now I'm willing to come back and do it again tomorrow and then again the next day and then again the next day. And then you find that you start to build confidence in yourself and what felt very hard in the beginning because you were worried about making a mistake and you were worried about all the money you had spent and, and all of this, you start to realize that, oh, I actually have a track record of making good decisions now with this and I've been making progress and it feels really good and my family's starting to notice some of the spaces and yeah, maybe they they, you know, put some stuff out of place and I have to go back to it and tidy it up again. But it didn't actually take that long to put it back in, in place. And wow, this is really starting to make a difference. And it's really starting to feel good. And that's what keeps us going. Not the full weekend, I got a babysitter and I'm gonna pull it all out. That is just a recipe for disaster.

Okay, is it just me, or are you feeling ready to ransack your house? I mean, listening to This conversation has me wanting to go run to my kitchen, look in that junk drawer, and try to clean that thing up. You have a junk drawer, right? All God's children have a junk drawer. I want to set my, my timer for 15 minutes and go to work because I love what she's talking about, and I love the idea that peace and freedom follow us getting rid of the stuff that we don't need. You know, I— we can all relate to spaces in our lives that we need to declutter. If you don't have a junk drawer, you might have a spice cabinet that has has spices that have been expired for 2 years. I know you're still using them. Listen, my mama said if it don't look bad, if it don't taste bad, if it don't smell bad, it's fine. So I may or may not let things go beyond their date, but every now and then even I too need to declutter my spice cabinet. There's always somewhere in our homes that we know we just need to get to, and we either don't have the time or we're not making the time. But the truth be told, what's happening in our homes may or may not be happening in our hearts. There may or may not, for you— there are for me— be spaces and places in my heart and in my mind that need decluttering. I may be avoiding them because a 15-minute timer isn't going to do it. I may be avoiding them because once I start it, it's going to create a mess that I don't really want to clean up. There are places in my mind that are scary to touch, emotions that are scary to strongholds, habits that are scary to touch. But the reality of what's happening in my home, if it's also happening in my head and in my heart, I need to touch those places too. I'll tell you about one of those things that struck me as Dawn was talking about. What if, just like I have places in my home that need help and I recruit help, I go on YouTube to learn, um, tips and tools for decluttering, I have friends who come and help me clean up my spaces. What if I apply applied that same knowledge to how I operate with my inner life? What if inside of my inner life, my head and my heart, instead of going to YouTube University, I went to Jesus and said, can you help me with these things? I know that some of these things I'm not meant to carry. I know that some of these things I'm not meant to lug around. Can you help me declutter? What if I gave Jesus 15 minutes in prayer, in Bible study, of time of to have him help me and show me where I need to move things around? What if I made the time? What if, just like when I'm decluttering my house, I invite a friend over? What if I open myself up to a friend? Now, I know what you may be saying, Chrystal, that sounds like a good idea, but I don't have the knowledge of how to invite God into my space to help me clean up my inner life, or I don't have people in my life that I trust or that I know well enough enough to invite into my inner spaces to help me declutter my inner life? Well, listen, I know what it is to avoid having friends come over to help me clean because they're going to make me do it, and they're not attached to the stuff that I'm attached to, and they can objectively say, girl, let that go. I have to be ready for that. But they're there and will help me if I need them. Sometimes the first person I call isn't available. Sometimes the second person I call isn't available. But if I really am interested in finding help, I can find somebody. If you think there's nobody in your life that can help you declutter your head and declutter your heart, and you've called the first person, if you call the second person, you called your sister, you called your friend, and you're like, I want to do the work to declutter my physical and spiritual and emotional life, but I don't have people to help me. Well, I want you to know that's why there is the Inner Circle. I realize that we may not always have people in our lives to mentor us, to guide us, to speak truth into our lives, or to walk with us along the way. One of the things we do in the Inner Circle is there is more of me and more of my friends to speak to issues, practical issues that will help you to declutter. There are courses, there is specialized content to walk you through how you set boundaries, to walk you through how you cultivate your home, to walk you through to walk you through how you simplify, to walk you through how you study the Bible. Because I can encourage and invite you to the next level of inspirational living in your life all day long, but if I don't show you how, then will you actually clean out the drawer, clean out your head, clean out your heart? And the great news is I'm not the only one in the Inner Circle. There is a smattering of women in there who come alongside to cheer each other on. So if you need to declutter the drawers in your life or declutter your inner life, your head and your heart, heart. Get your people involved. Ask Jesus for help. But if getting the help you need— decoding what decluttering looks like in your life, what the edict is from God to you— if you need help with that, if you need mentoring, if you need coaching, if you need big sisters to come alongside and tell you how to do it, and if you need a community of women who are going to do it with you and cheer you on along the way, the Inner Circle is where you want to be. Not only is the Inner Circle getting extra from me, but there are other benefits. Like in October, I'm going to California, taking a bunch of girls with me to the Sister Circle. Some will know each other, many of them won't. We're going to get in that space with the trees and the waters and the mountains, and we're going to learn how to listen to our own souls. And the Inner Circle girls who come, they are the only VIPs that will be there. VIP equals Inner Circle. So I would love to invite you to consider two 2 things, really 3. Number 1, if you need more, consider the Inner Circle. If you want to join me on a trip to California— beautiful trees, beautiful water, beautiful mountains, beautiful people— I would love for you to consider joining me in October of this year. But if you just want to be moved, I want you to engage with the principles we're talking about on this episode, and we're going to jump back into that episode in just a second. But first, let me give you what you need if you want to know more about the Inner Circle or more about the retreat. Go to thesistercircle.com/innercircle or /retreat. thesistercircle.com/innercircle or /retreat. Go to the Inner Circle first if you want to join and come to the retreat as a VIP. Go to the retreat only if you just want to come on the trip. Go to the Inner Circle only if you just want to join me on on the inside. The choices are immense. But whatever you do, I want you to engage with your life, learn what you need to learn, get who you need to get, get with who you need to be with. I want you to do whatever that means— listening to this podcast, watching this podcast, going on YouTube University, getting the skills that you need. I want you to do what you need to live your life well, because listen, you only get this one trip around the sun. Multiple times, but it's your trip, and you get to see the seasons every year, your birthday every year, your life changing before your eyes. But you're on this Earth as it rotates around the sun, and the question is, what are you going to do with it? Here's what I know you don't want to do with it. You don't want to rotate around the sun with burdens, with luggage, with clutter. Life is too short to lug the things you don't So I want you, whether you join me in the Inner Circle or not, whether you come to the retreat with me or not, whether you take a deeper dive with me at all in any way or not, here's what I want you to do today. I want you to decide where is your greatest pain point of clutter. If it's a kitchen junk drawer, so be it. If it's your mind, so be it. Set a timer for 15 minutes and let some stuff go. Let go of some of the brain things that are in, that are swimming around your head. Do a brain dump. Dump. Get a trash bag and dump some of those things that are sitting in your junk drawer. Because here's what I can promise you: if you will take action of some kind today with what you're living and learning on this episode, just 15 minutes, that'll be the first domino that might knock down some of the other dominoes in your life. So I'm glad you're here. If the only thing you do with me today is join me for this podcast, I'm glad you made it. If you do more, I'd be happy to see you in other places and spaces. Places. But I'm happy you're here today because I believe if you can let some stuff go, you will move the needle forward in great ways in your life. All right, y'all, let's get back to my conversation with Dawn. So this emotional overwhelm that you're talking about, I mean, it is true. It's, it's, I mean, I always tell people I, I can't declutter unless I have a friend because I just need it. Um, I need external processing for them to talk me off down a ledge that this, I can let this go, or that this really doesn't, you know, doesn't matter. Um, all the little decisions. And so how can we reduce that overwhelm? Like, because even that— I think that's a part of the reason why I don't, and a lot of people don't, do the little by little decluttering. I just want it done. I want it over with. So we know that that's not a successful setup. But the other way seems like you're putting into, like, forevermore, this ongoing, the, the part that, you know, you don't like, you know, I gotta, so I gotta do this all the time. And so how do I lower that anxiety for that?

Yeah. Yeah. I, that's a great question though, about needing someone to like process with or, so Chrystal Hurst, have you heard of the term body doubling?

I have. And you wanna know why I heard about it? Because my daughter swears I'm ADD because, you know, oh yeah. If they're 30 years old or 25 years old, they learn everything they learn from TikTok. TikTok. So she has followed some TikTok people and she's like, I've decided— I should say, I'm diagnosing you, you're ADD. And then she was saying— I mentioned that to her one day, I said, I need you to come over and help me do that. She said, the reason why you need me to help you is because you need a body double so that you don't feel the strain and the stress from something that is very stressful for you, which is focusing, finishing, and making decisions.

Yeah, but it's actually— there's nothing wrong with that. So we're all wired differently. Like the Lord made us each in very unique ways. And Chrystal Hurst, would it really surprise you that the key to you getting your house decluttered is inviting someone else into the process and having some community around this? Probably that's not actually that surprising, right?

No.

Instead of us trying to muscle through and be like, well, I got myself into this mess, I need to get myself out, right? That's what most of us do as women. We're embarrassed by it. We like— it is a very emotional process. We don't want to be confronted by it. And so it's much easier here to close the door. But if you know yourself— and it is a tactic for those with ADD or ADHD, so yeah, you're right on with that— but if you know yourself and you need some kind of external accountability, you need someone to say, hey, it's Tuesday at 9 o'clock and you said we were gonna FaceTime and work together for 15 minutes on that cabinet under the sink, like, some of us need that, and that is totally okay. We live in a culture that says we should all self-motivated and, you know, just be able to have all of this intrinsic internal motivation. And that's not true, right? So if you know yourself, I need a date on the calendar at a time, I need to know someone else is counting on me, and I need to be able to verbally process some of this stuff, what you're going to find is that over time you won't need that support as much as you do in the beginning. So you might need it, um, early on, and then you are going to get to a point probably where it's not as necessary. But if you will invite someone else in, whether it is them coming to your house in person or doing it over FaceTime or Zoom, I think you're going to find that it makes it so much easier and you feel more confident about the decisions that you're making.

So one of the parts of the decision-making that's hard is it's not to get rid of it or not to get rid of it. It's what kind of getting rid of process are we going to have? Like, am I going to— let's talk paper. Am I going to take this paper and shred it myself? Am I gonna put it in the garage in the box and wait for the community shredding day? With clothes, it's like, well, this is actually good stuff. I know I don't need it. I know I don't want it, but am I gonna just toss it? Am I gonna give it away? Am I gonna— oh, I know that I'm gonna give it away because I'm gonna give it to this certain person whose kid is my kid's age. And then it's sitting in the box 'cause I keep forgetting to take. So even in the, I'm gonna get it outta my house, We have the decisions of what— now what door? Door number 1, door number 2, or door number 3 am I going to use to get it out of my house? And some of those decisions add another thing to do. So when it comes to this deciding how it leaves, what tips do you have for helping us to do that in a, in a responsible way without overwhelm?

Yeah, you're asking such Great questions, Chrystal Hurst. This is awesome. So I love Dana from A Slob Comes Clean. She says, don't be a hero when you're donating, because for most of us, we think, if I can get it to just the right place where the person is gonna be so glad and so appreciative, then it— what it's doing is it's making me feel better that I never used it, or I barely used it, and I spent money on it and whatnot, right? So it's all about me feeling better, basically, right? So you have to be really realistic. And again, this is where knowing yourself comes in. Do I have the time and bandwidth to make sure each specific type of donation gets to where it goes, where I feel really good about it? Or do I just need to go to the place that takes the widest variety of things and has the biggest hours available and the shortest line? So there's a thrift store by our house. It's like run by a church., and it's awesome. All the money stays in the community. They support these really great programs. I've gotten stuff for our kids. So I'm like, I want everything to go to that thrift store, right? I feel really good when I donate there. Well, they're kind of selective about what they take and they have really wonky hours for donating. And so I have found that then I don't end up going because I'm like, well, I don't, I don't want to take the time today to find out if, even though I'm driving through that area, if they're open today or whatnot. Right. And so I just had to finally say, you know what? On, take it to Goodwill because they, in our area, they take everything. Like, the guy's usually not even standing out there when I drop it off. I, I don't like— don't get me wrong, I don't get junky stuff, right? Like, I throw that away, but like, but I'm like, I just don't want a hard time about it. And so, so I just go. There's— I know the one to go to where there's not a long line. I dump everything out of the back of my car and it's done. And I, Chrystal, I never think about it again. We all think we're gonna remember every single thing, and I have this unique unique, like, advantage because I often take video recording of my donations before I go and drop it off. And Chrystal Hurst, so many times I look back at the videos of the stuff I have donated and I'm like, oh my goodness, I don't remember any of that. I don't remember any of it. We forget about it right away. And you know what happens? What's the one thing sticks out? The box of cards I accidentally donated when I was a teenager, or the camera cord that I could have used. And all of a sudden that sabotages all of our efforts because of one thing, one thing that we decluttered that we could have used. We have to stop that, and we have to say, I am prioritizing peace in my home and for my family over this physical, physical stuff that is not going to have a grip on my life anymore.

Uh, okay, so, you know, a lot of places, mainly, you know, probably because of COVID because we were all home cleaning out our stuff, they have an abundance of stuff they can't get rid of. So they've stopped taking stuff. Um, yeah. What do I do if I'm looking to give my things away and the places that I know about that I can easily search or that are within a decent driving distance of home, they're not taking stuff. What do I do then?

Mm-hmm. Um, I would use, uh, almost every community has a Freecycle site, so where you can post it for free. Um, there's also Moms Don't Hoard groups where if you have any kind of kids stuff, which is like the best Yeah, so if you have any kind of kids stuff, you can also list stuff for free on Marketplace. You can post a picture and say, this is out on the curb outside of my house, or it's on my porch, you're welcome to come and take it. Um, there are options still too for trying to get rid of stuff for free. Or if you're like, I— it's just hard for me to get to the donation center, I have little kids or whatever, those same tactics work for that too. A lot of Salvation Armies will still come to your home and pick stuff up as well, or also the Veterans Association, Society, whatever it's called, um, often you can schedule a pickup with them as well.

Okay, that's good, because I'm, I'm like, when I found out that the thrift store I was normally going to, they were like, we don't, we're not taking stuff. I'm like, but no, you have to. I like, I did, I did all the work and my trunk has boxes and bags. What do you mean you're not taking it? And then we went to, you know, they have the Goodwills that are just the little stations, or you could just drop it off. It's not the actual store, it's like in middle, and that was overflowing. Stuff was coming out, you know, and then you were leaving. And then I felt bad. I was like, well, I don't want to leave myself on the street, like, you know, because you saw that some of the things were spilled over and messed up. And yeah, I mean, it was like this great consternation. Like, I did the work and now I don't want to— I don't want to leave it outside. I'm so curious, why do you take a video of the things you donate?

Well, I just show it usually, like, on my YouTube videos. I'll show, like, stuff I'm, you know, will be like, what I'm donating this week, or whatever. I'll clean out a spot and then I'll show the pile of donations. And you know what's fun about it though is that, you know, like I have a mentorship group too. All of our stuff looks the same. Like we all have been overrun with all of the same stuff. And so I know, I mean, I hear from women all the time like, I am ashamed of this, I have shame around this, right? And guilt. And there are so many emotions that go with it. And so that's why again today, if I can just You have permission to let this stuff go because it is just physical stuff and it can represent a lot of heartache. But if you will get it out of your house so that it is not taunting you anymore, telling you that you're a bad mom and you're a bad wife, if you will move it out, there is so much peace, so much peace underneath all of that.

The only thing I can compare it to is if I go out of town and I'm traveling and I walk into a hotel room. It's, it's not even the first time I walk in. It's after I leave the hotel room for a little bit, a little while, and then come back after housekeeping has been there. And the fact that it's reset is like, oh, this is great, right? And so what I hear you saying is that your home can be a refuge like that. Like, you can walk in the door and feel like, okay, I'm, I'm glad that I'm, I'm glad that I'm here. Well, one of things. I mean, you said you homeschool, you have your YouTube channel, so you're working on that all the time. You, you know, you're an author even though you don't like writing, you still did it. So you have a book called Decluttering by Faith, and this is you and your sister, right, that, um, put that together. And then, um, there is the Decluttering Your Home in 15 Minutes a Day. So you have a whole workbook, there's a course. I mean, you got stuff going on. But, um, you, you are in all of this having to do the work that we all have to do of continuously decluttering, right? So you have to make— and I know it's a part of your lifestyle. One of the reasons why I know I get in trouble with too much stuff is because I'm not making the time to do it because life is full and because I'm sometimes reacting. And, um, I know I'm supposed to do this for 15 or 20 minutes a day. But today we're running late because this kid had to practice and I was just trying to get dinner done. And like, life interferes with the rhythms that you want to start or continue for keeping a home that you enjoy. So I'm curious, are you pretty, for lack of a better word, rhythmic or maybe disciplined or structured with your time? Because I know that for a lot of people, the reason why their homes got decluttered, or if they declutter it and then it gets decluttered again, it's like gaining weight. You gotta keep it off.

Yeah.

So there's the way you have to eat to lose it, and then there's the way you have to eat to maintain it. So you are obviously in maintenance stage. So what does your life have to look like in order to make sure you have the room to do all the little things like the dishes before you go to bed? Yeah. Or, you know, the papers. What are the— are you pretty rhythmic, I guess is the question. And is that hard for you? Is it easy for you?

Um, yeah, I am not rhythmic at all. I, I think of myself as a very like Type B creative type of a just go with the flow and everything. My husband is very structured, and so that's something— so it's been good because you get to see both sides of it. But the, like, the time management tip that has been the most helpful for me through all the seasons of pretty much all of motherhood I have worked in some capacity, just more or less depending on it. But now I definitely work full-time along with homeschooling and all of that. The best time management tip I ever learned was to do the thing that is most important first thing in the day. So whatever is going to move the needle forward, there's— I could do 100 things today, but at the beginning of my day, I'm like, what are the things that have to, have to no matter what get done today? And I got to that point with my house because I knew that I could not keep going the way I was going. Anymore. And so that might look like you literally spend 15 minutes first thing in the morning decluttering because you know it is going to pay dividends. You may not know now, but you're, you're like really hopeful and trusting that if you can get the inventory down, that it is— it just like, Chrystal Hurst, it makes every single area of life better. It makes making breakfast and packing lunches and the kids getting dressed and me getting dressed and the bathrooms decluttered. So then getting ready in the morning isn't that big of a deal. Like, it's It's really nice to walk into a bathroom in the morning that is not trash. Like, it actually is a really great way to start your day. Or walking into a closet and looking at your clothes and like every single thing fits and I can feel good. It doesn't matter what size I am, everything fits. It's an option for something I have to wear today. And so I just pick one of those things, I put it on and I go. Like, every single area of your life gets better. And so if you could prioritize that even just for a month, you are going to see huge differences. And I would even go so far as to say it's worth backburnering, backburnering other things. Like say, okay, we're gonna eat frozen pizza and chicken nuggets for the next 2 weeks while I do this, or I'm, I'm gonna forego my workout to do this, or, or like truly putting some other things, um, on the back burner and making this a priority because it will make the rest of your life so much easier.

So what do you feel like you put on the back burner, um, or that you would— I mean, this is— I don't feel like I'm asking this question well, but like, but what got put on hold? Yeah, what got put on hold maybe at the beginning of your journey, and what are things that even now you say no to because you're committed to keeping your home in a state of order?

Yeah, that's really good. Um, my kids watched a lot of Netflix like for the first few months while I was doing it. I tried to work during nap time, but there were days where I'm like, I'm just gonna put a show on them them, for them, and I'm gonna, you know, work on a certain area of the house. Even like, you know, I didn't go to the gym. I, um, craft projects. I loved it. Like, I was very crafty.

Like, I love scrapbooker, card maker, Stampin' Up, any of that stuff. Is that what— what are your problems?

Not so much that. More like, I don't know, I'm thinking like a Pinteresty, like seasonal decor. And like, I would sew throw pillows and make curtains And I was going to say, you're a maker. Like that. Yes, a maker. That's probably a better word for it. Yeah. Um, and so I didn't do any of that stuff. Like, I didn't put our kids in extra activities. Um, I would say no to like some invitations. Like, I was really focused on this because, um, I just, I, I just somehow, I don't know if I just like sensed in my spirit or what, that, that was just like, this is really important. Work right now and it is going to give you like your hope back, like, and make you feel successful again. And it didn't take long, honestly, Chrystal Hurst, like it didn't take long of getting into it before I really felt like I was regaining confidence in myself. And so that definitely propelled me forward. Like anyone who's listening, I would say start in your kitchen because you use your kitchen so often, you're going to feel like you're going to actually feel the difference really quickly. This isn't like losing weight. Losing weight is so hard and it takes a long time. You could go into your kitchen right now with a donation box and a time will tell box and spend 15 or 20 minutes and see like really significant progress in your kitchen.

So when you are getting rid of stuff, um, I mean, are you okay? Because one of the problems with organization is that we think if we have more storage, if we have this bin, and then, you know, Target or Walmart or somebody will run a sale and we're like, oh, we want all the matching bins because if we're gonna store it, we want it to look pretty. When you're getting rid of stuff, what are you putting it in? Plastic bags? Are you literally putting it in tote bins? Are you holding on to boxes for the next run? Like, what are—

yes, yes, yes, and yes. So you do hang on to all the Amazon boxes that come in, or any other boxes you're like, oh, that is a good donation box, like save that. Um, I would donate stuff in Rubbermaid totes too because we had so many. And I quickly learned that stuff that will hold stuff will hold stuff, right? And so if I kept extra bins around, it was just a matter of time before they got filled up again. And so I would even, uh, go as far as to donate the Rubbermaid totes with stuff in them so I just didn't have them in the house anymore. Otherwise, just trash bags, um, work well too.

That is so good. What did you say? Stuff that will hold stuff will hold stuff.

Will hold stuff. Yeah. And, you know, organizing— all of us actually have a goal to be more organized. But once I reduced the inventory, because I didn't really feel like I was good at organizing in the past, like I would organize an area but it never kept, like it just would get cluttered up again. But I realized again, it was just too much inventory. So once I reduced the inventory, I actually really enjoy organizing it now and I can maintain it super easily because the inventory is so low. And actually, that reminds me too, a great tactic with husbands, um, is it— don't, don't ask them if you get to a point where they're starting to have a little bit of a comfort level. Don't say, can I help you declutter the garage? Say, could I help you organize the garage? Declutter is a scary word. Everybody wants to be more organized, so just use the word organize with them, and that usually goes over a little better too.

You have been YouTubing for a while. Like you mentioned, you've got almost 700,000 subscribers. What— or do you get sick of talking about this? Do you feel like I've said this before? There was already a video, so I'm going to remake this video. And the reason why I ask that at this juncture is because it's kind of the same question for the decluttering and the organizing. Do you ever go, ugh? To keep the inventory low means you have to be vigilant because stuff is always coming in the door. So it's kind of that same question. What do you do? Do you— is there ever a boredom? Is there an ever— is there ever a, I can't believe I still have to do this? Um, and how do you keep both of those exciting?

Yeah, no, I, you know, I'm 5 years in on YouTube and I have not gotten tired talking about it. I think if anything, I feel more passionate about this message now because I've seen the difference, um, that it makes in women's homes and how it's so— it's still so strange to me because it's like, it's just stuff, right? Like, it's just stuff. Like, why does this make such a big difference? But it does. Like, it makes a huge difference. And the confidence that I've seen women regain just by decluttering their homes, just by following through with something that they set out to do— we just did a, a challenge in our membership group, and we had 234 women declutter at least 1,000 items in one week from their home. Some women did 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, and 5,000. And the number one comment, our goal was to have 20 people do this. It's not a huge group, right? We had 234. And the number one comment that the women made was, "I didn't think I could do it. I didn't think I could do it." But they decided that they were on teams, they wanted to contribute to their team, so they were just gonna try. And 234 women got rid of 1,000 items. And we're talking women all ages and stages, like women that have energy issues and different things. Different, you know, disabilities or setbacks or, uh, kids with neurodiverse kids. I mean, there's so many things, right, that pull at us. And that they were able to follow through with that, it gave them so much confidence in themselves. And so it, it's, it's, it's so cool. Like, it's so cool. But, um, it gets easier. Like, maintaining my house does not feel hard at all. And the things we get to do now— we got to go on a missions trip with our family to Mexico life-changing. Like, it was, it was incredible. I'm like, I don't think I would have had the confidence to do that in the past, or that we would have felt like we had the space for it. We like garden now, so gardening's my thing. I've decided I don't do crafts or that. Like, I'm like, I have to pick one thing because it's still a busy season, you know. It's like garden, but I love it, you know, and I have time for it, and I enjoy researching things and, and doing all of it. And so it's not— it used to be a burden because I would look out and it's weedy and I didn't have time for it. And now It's, it's a joy. Like, I thoroughly enjoy being out there. And so again, I don't— I start to sound like a broken record, but it truly makes every area of life better and easier. And I feel like such a good mom now. I don't do it all right. I don't have it all figured out, but I am present. I believe that I'm raising kids that, you know, they have to manage inventory. They are learning the ins and outs of buying things and, and, you know, what satisfies and what doesn't. Right? But I feel like I can really help them with that process too. And so I feel like a good mom, I feel like a good wife, and that is, that is just so cool. Again, all just from getting rid of a bunch of stuff that I wasn't even using anyways from my house.

Yeah, that's so great. Well, and the getting rid of the things to benefit you and your family, the overflow of that is all of the people like me who stumbled upon you on YouTube and who have been and still are encouraged to do the same in their homes as well. So thanks so much for joining me, Dawn. This is great. And listen, I know that we'll put in the show notes all the links to all your things, but if you're listening or watching right now and you're like, I need to get my home in order, don't even wait. Just straight from this episode, just go straight to YouTube, search The Minimal Mom, and discover more of what Dawn can teach teach you about getting things in order so that you have the freedom to live the life you want. So thanks again, Dawn, for joining me. Awesome.

Thank you, Chrystal Hurst. Those were awesome questions. Seriously. Thank you so much. You're welcome.