When Prayer Meets Preparation with Pastor Travis Greene

Hey there. Thanks so much for joining me for another episode of the Sister Circle Podcast. I'm your host, Chrystal Evans Hurst. And once a week you get me by myself, solo, and another time during the week you get me and a friend. I open up the circle and I invite a sister or a brother to join me so that we can all be encouraged and so that we can all know we're not alone and have a little bit of fun and foolery. And y'all today, listen, listen, I'm inviting a brother in. Travis Greene is joining me. I'm so excited. And y'all, he understands the assignment when it comes to the fun and the foolery, I'm happy to say. I have been listening to his music, as have many of you, for years. I have been enjoying his music as I praise and worship in the middle of my living room. And much to my children's chagrin, he is on repeat every morning in our house. So if you listen to Travis Greene's music, you already know what I'm talking about.. But if you've never heard the man talk, if you don't know what spirit is behind the music that is being spilled out of his guitar and his voice and out of his church, then you only know half the story. It's my delight, my excitement, and my privilege to share my chat with Travis Greene with you today. I know that you will enjoy it. And what I would love for you to do is to pay attention because this man is going to drop some nuggets that will, I think, change your life if you hear them and apply them. And when you're done listening, I want you to do 3 things. For me. Number 1, I want you to put your takeaway in the chat. Number 2, I want you to make sure you like this video, share it with a friend if you think it'll be useful to them. And number 3, if you're not already subscribed to the channel, what are you waiting on? Make sure you can do that actually right now. But y'all, without further ado, let me introduce you to the person who's on repeat and has been on repeat in my house for years, Mr. Pastor Travis.

Great.

I'm glad that you're joining me, and, uh, I'm really excited about your new book. One, because, um, this concept— and I literally on the back cover, prayer and waiting for God to answer can be confusing. And it is, because what's the point in praying if he's not going to do it anyway? If we're supposed to pray for his will, what if we're praying for it and it's not? Um, how to ask the right, because we want to answer, so we're trying to pray the right thing, but we're not sure what the right thing is. So I love when I picked it up and realized that you had put pen to paper, How Are You Praying for the Wrong Thing? I thought that is a very inviting title because it's a question we have all asked. So, you know, my big question when somebody writes something like this, where does it come from? That's the question. You don't have this much to say about that specific topic if it didn't come from somewhere. And either you needed it, your family needed it, your church needed it, you preached a series. Like, somebody needed this. Yeah. So I'd love to know more about that.

I needed it. I needed it exclusively. You know, God has blessed us tremendously. I'll start at the spoiler alert and then work my way back., we're in, you know, I mean, compared to, you know, your, your world, I mean, it's small, but compared to our world is massive what God has done. You know, we're in what used to be a Best Buy. We were able to buy it 2020 in cash and convert it. A standalone building, 45,000 square feet, 1,000-seater, amazing kids area, playground, all the things, right? So that's the, that, let's start at the end. Let's work backwards. I just said the statement in the last meeting. And you're smart enough to get it. But I said, this didn't happen because of me, but it wouldn't have happened without my own growth. And so that's really where this entire— without personal growth, right? Without my leadership growing and getting better and me getting smarter and me getting more merciful and having more insight and all those things as well. And so what happened was, Uh, let's go back several years. I'm in a, and I talk about this in the book too, Chrystal Hurst. I'm in a car at a small church in Charlotte, North Carolina, leaving a small church called Elevation. And, um, I'm leaving there and I passed one of their campuses. And, uh, it's not a small church, by the way, but I'm passing one of their campuses and the executive pastor's like, hey man, we bought this in year 2, you know? And I'm like, what? What do you mean you bought this in year 2? Like, yeah, you know, someone gave us a, we had a donor, you know, athlete or whatever, gave us a million dollars. He just said it so like passively, and I got so upset with God, right? Have anybody ever like celebrated, told you a testimony, and you were like, I mean, I'm happy for you, but I'm like, what about me? What about me though, God? Like, man, I'm out here, I didn't ask for none of this. So I, I kind of get encouraged and discouraged at the same time. So I'm having a long story short, having this dialogue with God, and I'm like I'm like, what's going on? I'm doing all this stuff. I'm working my butt off. I'm following your word, following your will. I didn't ask for any of this. I was doing fine touring. You told me to start a church. Where's my help? And the Lord asked me a million-dollar question, literally. He said, what would you do with a million dollars?

Hmm.

And I didn't have an answer. And that's when it dawned on me that a prayer without a plan is just wishful thinking. That's where the whole book came from. That many times we're praying. I mean, you and your family are way smarter.. But what happens in most churches, right? We don't get this revelation. And so we're praying for blessings and harvest that we have no plan for.

Mm-hmm.

Right? And so you're praying for miracles instead of focusing on management, praying for stuff instead of shifting our focus to strategy. Um, and that's where, that's where I was. That was the gap in between manifestation and this thing that I was carrying in my heart. The only way I was able to carry it in my hands when it finally clicked. Oh, Trav, you got to grow. Oh, Trav, you got to— you, you've actually been praying for the wrong thing. You've been praying for what only God can do and actually overlooking and neglecting things that you're responsible for doing.

So many, so many things. So many things in there. The first question that I have is, I can hear the question that other people may be asking, where We want stuff instead of the strategy, or the miracle instead of learning how to manage. But strategy or management, if I have to grow to be able to handle the blessing, how do I grow? So for example, you think about David in the Bible. He was protecting sheep. He knew how to fight off the bear. He graduates to fighting Goliath. He graduates to being a warrior. So in reverse, he can look back and say, oh, look at how he was preparing me. Because when he was watching over the sheep, he wasn't trying to be a king. But what you just said is the other thing. I have a vision of a kingdom. I have a vision of a queendom. I have a vision of what I want God to do in my life. And I know that there's a distance between where I am and where I want to be. So I'm praying for this, but in between, what do I do if I don't know either where I need to develop, how I need to develop? How can I pray without ceasing? How can I bring those desires, um, or needs to the Lord and acknowledge the in-between when I don't know what to do, you know, with that?

A million things to say because this excites me. This is my— this is not a book for me. This is a passion. This is a burden. Um, because I believe the churches are full of disappointed Christians. Yeah, we're shouting, praying, praising, giving towards a vision that possibly God never gave. Ah, so let's just start this whole thing with, uh, addressing the elephant in the room, which is a misinterpretation of our favorite scripture, Psalm 37:4. Delight yourself in the Lord and he'll give you the desires of your heart. It's been misinterpreted for multiple reasons. One, the a clause is the most important: delight yourself. What to do? Delight, right? What to do in between? Delight, right? When I delight myself in him, then he'll give me the desires of my heart. Here's the misinterpretation: that does not mean he give you what you want. It means he'll give you what to want. That I, I get trusted with the God's desire, the things that he's desiring for me. I get trusted there in the place of stewardship. Yeah, so I'm trying to say this without being confusing. I got a vision of there, but I'm not driven by there. Yes, and there's a difference. If I'm driven by there, it becomes a lower, lowercase g, right? It becomes a god. I, I— a lot of people, our vision is on our idol, and that's called manipulation. So I'm only doing this to get there. That's wrong motive. No, no, no, no, I'm, I'm locked in and being great here. I'm stewarding what I have, and then when I look up, I'll be there. We use David. You name 3 big things for David, right? Sheep, Goliath, throne, right? What to do in between is what he actually did in the in-between. It's what— how did I watch the sheep? What was my heart posture when I was watching the sheep? I'll tell you his heart posture. He tripped into Goliath. He never looked for Goliath, right? So he tripped into this situation that happened to be an open door that everybody else called a giant. And even his heart posture when he got there His brother, his older brother Benadab, said, hey yo, first of all, why are you here, man? You here to talk junk against us? Where are those little sheep? Oh, I steward mine. So yeah, I brought you lunch, but I, I kept someone behind to watch the sheep because to you they're nothing, but for me, I am in love with stewarding my today. It's something to me.

Goodness.

So yeah, yeah, I got my eyes on the future, but I'm not ignoring the present. I see Goliath, but I got— but I'm stewarding the sheep. As a matter of fact, I'm stewarding them so much that after I slay Goliath, I'm going back to them. I'm not going to sit outside the throne room and manipulate my way and kick down a door and say, well, no, man, I'm gonna— I'm gonna kill what I have, and that prepares me for what is next. The problem with our generation is that we're so focused on there. When I get there, I'll be happy. When I get there, I have peace. So you got your peace, your happiness, your joy, all a reservation for a place that doesn't even exist. There, there, there. When I get there. Only problem with there is whenever I finally arrive there, guess what happens magically? It becomes here. So you're never there. And so the trick to all of this is not to focus necessarily or, or wholeheartedly on a place that doesn't even exist, right? I'm not just going after the future. No, no, no. I'm being so great in my present that it evicts me out of it and that I get thrown into the future. I don't knock down doors. I get pulled into them, right? It's just a different mentality. And so when I get that stewardship, that heart of God, the heart of a servant, the heart of a steward, and lock in on my now, what happens with here? The cross is not just a symbol, it's a letter. If I can put the cross, if I can insert that in front of my here, my here becomes there. And now I'm no longer antsy and looking for, oh man, I need another relationship, I need another job, I need more followers, I need more significance. No, man, like, I am Jackie, them boys, my current assignment is enough, and I find fulfillment in my now.

This is total fire because people look at you Like you've said a couple times so far, you know, our family having a prayer call, our family doing this and what we know. And I'm looking at you like, you look there to me. I mean, and people look at us, and by us, I mean anybody, and they see where your there is because they don't have in mind what you're aiming for. Okay, so, you know, my example of this, my son, my youngest one, always ask me, who's more famous, you or Auntie Cilla? And I say, oh, Auntie Cilla by far. And I was like, you know, look, here's how many followers she has, here's how many followers I have. But that's because I'm comparing, right? Right. We're— they're comparing. They're asking me a comparative question. But I know that there are a lot of people who look at my little old— this is how I would say it— my little old measly 100 and something thousand followers, and they're like, oh my gosh, how did you do that?

You know, right, right.

We have a perspective of our here based on our perspective of our there, when in reality our here is there to somebody else. So yes, when you are talking about your there, uh, because you've been there to me for a long time, told you I've been listening to your albums just non-stop for years. What has that been like for you? Gave one example of the church, you know, the building, the development of the ministry. Um, have you had any other here-thers to reconcile with in your life?

Absolutely. You know, I often say, and this is just in full transparency, I mean, I'm, I'm no, I'm no vet, right? I'm not even gonna act like, you know, your family is your royal. You guys, y'all, y'all have done this for a long time, longer than I've been alive. So I'm not talking from a position of, oh, I've arrived anywhere. I'm talking to somebody who's still trying to figure it out. For me, I grew up in a single-parent household, you know, my mother My dad died when he was 28. I was 5 years old. Last week made the 35th anniversary. We went to his graveside in North Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Sunday morning aneurysm, nothing wrong, pastor out of here. Um, so for me, I grew up in a very, uh, and, and it's— and my mom, you know, it's hardcore Pentecostal holiness. So that's the— that's the house I grew up in. My— the closest thing I ever came to secular music was John P. Kee and BB and CeCe. That was it. I mean, that was I've still never seen Waiting to Exhale, Set It Off, never seen any of those movies. Boomerang, never seen it. Have no— I have no idea who's in it or what it's about. I don't know. I don't get any of the inside jokes before 1999. So, um, that's just how I grew up. I grew up in a very different, very different world than these folks. And so because of that, I was very covered, very sheltered. I thank God for that now, I'm in retrospect, but I didn't I didn't— I don't have your typical testimony, right? Never did drugs, never did games. I've literally never done a drug other than ibuprofen in my lifetime and never got into alcohol. Was not into high— you know, I had a couple trips, a couple like you shouldn't have done that, a few times before marriage, but I wasn't out here wilding, right? I don't have those stories. I don't have the, oh man, God got me off the street this. But I'll tell you what drug I was addicted to— ambition. This is For me, I was driven. And so I now, I'm such on the opposite. I'm, I'm such an enemy of it because I was addicted to it for so long, right? Like, I was addicted to getting there. I was driven. And if you're driven by that, and if you're, you know, if your motivation is— that's why, that's why I talk about like not being driven by tomorrow, because if your motivation is just getting there It is inevitable. You'll dishonor your here, and you just never get there. There is a figmentation of our imagination. It's not even an actual place. And so I have to fall in love with God, his word for me, his word for this season, his word for the greens. And I got to fall in love with that and find fulfillment in obedience. Asking who's more famous is a horrible question. You should ask who has more peace, right? Because fame— and this doesn't apply to Auntie Still, I'm just saying in general— fame is a lie. It's just, it just is. I mean, I, I mean, you know this, you've been around, you know what I'm about to say. And I'm just, I'm, I'm candid. I'm not Tim Ross candid, but I am, you know, I'm in between. I'm in between Joel Osteen and Tim Ross. But I will say this, these We're gonna listen to Alexa playlist and go to these tour stops for all these gospel shows. You know this as well as I do, and I'm not trying to be mean, just want to say how, how delusional fame is. We're going to shows, and there'll be big shows, and there'll be thousands of people. The people on stage are broke. Let me say it again, because, because I used to be an artist. They're broke. They're not on stage because they're passionate. They're on stage because they're broke. They're not singing these songs of Zion with water in their eyes because they want people to get saved. They're singing it because they got bills that they can't afford. So we got to be very careful of when we, when we look at followers and think that, or we look at momentum and think that that equates to success. It doesn't. It's a formula. And so just, we gotta be really careful how we define success, right? And so that's, I always give that to people who's like, man, you're very successful. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Very obedient. So that's the difference. And that's what I want to, that's the life I want to invite people into. Like, man, let's learn how to lock in on what God is saying, steward our now, and then we can be trusted with next.

You are invited to join me at the Sister Circle Retreat 2024. It'll be held October 9th the 13th in upstate New York. And I would love for you to come by yourself, with a friend, or with a group of girls. It doesn't matter, but I want us to get together to talk about what it means to live a life you love and how you build that life brick by brick. If you want to know more information, simply go to thesisterscircle.com/retreat. I'd love to see you there. Here's, here's the thing. I, you know, when you think about this idea about praying. There are a lot of things if I'm committed to my now and I'm getting the message and I'm like, you know what, he's right, let me refocus on what's in front of me, what's in my hand, you know, Exodus chapter 3. But I— God needs to do some things in my now to reformat my thinking, help me to see what I don't know exists, um, help me to learn, what to stop and what to start, like all of those navigations that happen because we're in the word, because we're in a, you know, Bible teaching church, because we are, uh, in prayer. And I, I would like to know what it has looked like when your head is in the right space. Like you, you're wanting to be obedient and do the right thing. If you're delighting yourself in your now, delighting yourself in the Lord, and you're putting yourself in a position where he can navigate you to your there. So you're focused on your today, he's doing the navigation. So basically this download that we're getting from God where he says, stop that and start this, forgive this person, stay in it, forgive that person and let them go, go back to this conversation because you didn't do it right, uh, this is a skill you need to learn, uh, you're not going to learn it from them, get underneath them. The, the navigation that happens in prayer What does it practically look like for somebody? Let's say they're new in the game and they're like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna read my Bible. Okay, yeah, I'm gonna pray. Yep. Okay, I'm gonna focus on my right now. What can I look for as I engage with God so that I know what he's telling me to do, so that I know what I'm hearing is him telling me to do it, you know, not my thoughts, not my— not, you know, the enemy planting seeds? How do I hear God's voice, know that it's his voice, know that I'm walking in obedience beyond the things that the Bible explicitly says. Because there's so many nuances to our lives. How can I— it is follow—

it's, it's the little things, not the big things, right? A lot of times I think we look at— and I love the David example— we look at the size of Goliath. It was like Goliath was easy. David didn't even break a sweat. David wasn't even on the defense. Read it again. The Bible said he ran towards Goliath. You know what kind of swag you gotta go— you have to be on the offense against a giant. He knew it was easy. David rejected armor not only because it didn't fit, he knew he wasn't going to get hit. It's like, that's why he rejected Saul's armor. He had no intentions of ever— he said, man, if this guy get me first, I'm out, right? So you only get that confidence— you only— here's my point: you only get confidence for the big things by stewarding the little things. So the way my wife and I teach even prayer, man, don't— don't— before you trying to get a word about I'm called to China, get a word about being called to the PTA meeting.

Get it.

Get up, get up! Before you're a missionary, does the neighbor in your apartment complex that keep hitting the roof with— hitting the ceiling with a broom because you up there shouting, having church— do they know you're saved? Do they think you're throwing a party, or do they know you're actually listening to Christian music and jumping up and down? It's the little things. See, we just want Goliath. We just want to come to the front of the church, get hands laid on us, call to the nations, fall out, and get back up. That's what we want. We've been conditioned for that though. So it's not just your fault, you know, as a, as a, as a consumer of this trash. It's also our fault of the, the ones who are supposed to steward your soul and, and feed you correctly. We fed candy without vegetables. We've done this. And when I say we, I'm talking about the capital C Church. Especially the charismatic church, which I am full-blown, completely through and through and through charismatic, proud of it. I am not a pretend charismatic, I am charismatic. But I think after you spin around 3 times to high-five your neighbor, you also need to learn how to work QuickBooks. I, I just think, what good is it, right? What good is it to be so wide-focused that you're no good for the narrow. So for me, it's the little things. I, you know, it's the way you do anything is the way you do everything. Don't call yourself excellent if your shirt is wrinkled. Don't, don't, don't call— I cannot trust you, say, man, I'm not even talking about an executive pastor. I can't trust you to be a janitor if your car is dirty.

Wow.

So it's the little, it's the little things. We're so big focused.

Goliath!

Oh my God, Goliath! You know what Goliath gonna do, man? He's gonna grow your Instagram following, and it's going to be amazing for you. But if you're not conditioned for it, if it was an accident and not on purpose, then your life is going to show it. And there's a lot of successful accidents that you manipulated your way there. You watched enough YouTube videos to know how to sling a shot— a slingshot— and you got lucky. The fruit of your life says that you're lucky, not that you're prepared for what you have, right? It's the little things. It's, it's the little things that keep you prepared. It's praying when no one's looking. It's, it's practicing your craft. It's, it's, it's, you know, David was in the field, uh, he was in his father's field, but he was a pro. He became a professional there before he became this warrior that they had parades about. He was a professional. He mastered the harp that got him in King Saul, that promoted him to armor bearer. He mastered the slingshot, which is why he had so much confidence with a lion, bear, and Goliath. That's why he got a sword in his hand.

Yeah.

So are you— don't just look for a way— if I just get an opportunity. No, man. I went to a church one time, and I digress here, but I went to the church one time. They brought me in the scene. This was years ago, probably 10 years ago. They brought me in the scene, and the sound system was trash. It was trash. Horrible, horrible buzzing, everything. Didn't feel sorry for him. I didn't feel sorry for him because they handed me a check. You handed me a check that cost what it would cost you at the time to go to Radio Shack and upgrade this. You know what I did? And I'm not saying this to be boastful or anything. I took the check, I didn't even look at it, didn't open the envelope, handed it right back to the pastor and said, upgrade your sound system, sir. You don't know how to steward. You're trying to use me as a marketing tool. I didn't tell it to him, but this is what I thought. You want to use me as a marketing tool to grow your church for people to come here and your microphone to go in and out? Good luck. Take the check and be responsible. And came in here singing with my guitar, we all crying, God gave me a vision, we're gonna have a bigger church, I'm called to the city. You're an idiot. Go to Radio Shack.

Okay, one of the biggest questions that I get asked, and I know you get asked, well, how do I know? I'm a multi-passionate person. How do I, how do I know what to aim for? I don't know what, you know, what is my calling? What is my purpose? When you said David, you know, is— you know, he got good at a slingshot. And so I want to focus on my today. I want to be prepared, but I don't even know what to be prepared for. So I'm praying and asking God, show me my calling, show me my purpose, show me what you want to do with my life. That being one of the bigger requests so that they can get behind it and work on being prepared, but they don't even know what the thing is. So— and I know that it's kind of a circular thing that probably brings back to something you said.

No, no, that's a great question.

When young people come to you and say, I don't know what God wants me to do with my life. Like, I, I want to be in line, I want to be obedient, and I want to focus, but I don't even know what to focus on. What say you, Pastor Green?

I tell you to stop eating McFlurries every day. I tell you to stop buying Travis Scott tennis shoes. And your car is raggedy, I tell you to unsubscribe to Netflix and get a Tony Evans book. We're so spiritual. Oh, I just need a word from God. Stop eating french fries is the word from God, because the way you do anything is the way you do everything. So you, you're pretending like you want to be great when nothing about your life says that you're great. You don't make your bed up. What are we talking about? What are we talking about? No, I'm not going to teach you how to produce. You don't make your bed up. No, I'm not— no, I'm not giving you an opportunity. You're not serious. Mm-hmm. So you look like a bum every day until you're on stage? You're actually not serious about life. So before we even— before I— before Samuel comes to your house with oil and anoints you, and even you have an inclination about your calling. The oil came because the rest of your brothers were playing and you actually were serious about life. That's the difference. Ask me how I know. Because Shammah, Abinadab, Eliab on the battlefield, that means they were doing push-ups while he was actually killing lions and bears. They weren't ever serious. They were preparing for the calling. I gotta prepare for war. And you got there and you still weren't prepared because you were still too scared to fight a giant that your little brother, who has never fought a human before, was more prepared than you. Just get good at life. Love your wife. Love your family. Go to the ball game before you try to do a revival. Get good at life. Less social media, more Bible and books about stewardship and books about leadership and books about whatever your passion is. There's a version of that book that literally says for dummies and you're not above it. I've read multiple books for dummies and it's helped me more than reading Corinthians every day.

Are you a reader naturally?

I read the Bible a lot. I'm a Bible guy. I'm a Bible guy. I got a master's in theology. I love the word of God. Um, like, I'm a Bible— I'm a real— I'm really about that with the Bible. Uh, I take in other, other authors occasionally, um, audiobook, or if I'm passionate about something. But I do a book like a movie. I want to get through it. Right. I'm not— I don't want to sit with a book for 2, 3 months. So am I a reader? No. My wife is. Do I read? Yes, more than men. That's the answer.

Well, I, I asked that because I do think that we overcomplicate, you know, some of the questions that I'm asking you. People are overcomplicating it. And, and, you know, yeah, I'm gonna pick up this book. Are you praying for the wrong thing? Because yes, tell me how to pray for the right thing so I can figure this out, when figuring it out really is what you're saying. It is do the next thing that's right in front of you. It's do well the thing that's in front of you to do. Use well what you have in your hand, and what you don't know, use the resources that are at your disposal to grow.

That's what the book is, by the way. It's not a prayer manual.

They gonna think it is though. They gonna think, I know, how do I get God to give me what I want? That's what they gonna think.

I know. I know, I know, that's the trick. Thank you. It's not even a book on prayer, it's more of a book on stewardship. That's what it literally— what I'm saying right now is what the whole book— I'm saying a lot meaner than my—

than I wrote it, but, um, but I think, yeah, man, when we demystify it though, it's like, okay, that's my top steps that get answered. Uh, I'm talking about you. And the decisions that you're making with your life and giving God something to work with and keeping it simple. Like, yes, we overcomplicate in general. We overcomplicate Christian living. We overcomplicate, uh, you know, the rules. And this is what happens where people get burnt by church a lot of times, because they're looking for someone external to give them all the rules. If I check these boxes, that God is, you know, Santa Claus in the sky and he's going to do for me because I did for him. And then we get disappointed when we check the boxes and the things don't happen, or the people that were telling us to check the boxes weren't checking the boxes themselves. So inquiring minds want to know, because you have pastoral duties and also because, like you said, you still go out on the road, still write music, you're still doing that, did you ever have a place of conflict in your own life about your path?

Uh, two answers, uh, hopefully they'll meet in the middle. One, um, other than music, I had no idea I would be doing anything else with my life. I was sure about music early, and I wasn't even good, but I was sure. I had like that Kanye confidence, you know, just like, I'm gonna be the greatest, whatever. It was like, you're not even good, Travis, but you could tell me that. I had no idea. And I had, uh, I had someone who My mom, who was my biggest cheerleader, but boy, she would set me up to get booed off of the Apollo. My baby is the best. And I wasn't. I'm glad she believed in me, but I wasn't good. But I was driven for that, right? I could play keys, a young kid. I was just musical, you know, Anthony. I'm just around it. I'm musical. So I had all of that, but I wasn't like, I wasn't nothing special. At all. I was just better than people my age, which isn't special, um, when you're 9. And so, you know, so I knew music would be a part of my life. Um, I wasn't surprised by that at all, even to the day. Um, whatever God has done with it, I had a sneak peek. My mom's very prophetic. I knew it. I knew that was gonna happen. Um, the church thing, however, that caught me off guard. I didn't see that coming. Uh, never desired it. Always worked very close to ministry. Even though my father was gone, I was— every church I was in, just about, I was like the pastor's son. So I was just always had access. I was the green room guy, I was the family trip guy. I was just always in the know because I was either like a youth director or a minister of music. Either one of those always gets you in the back. So I was just like, you know, I was, I was plugged in very heavy, and that made me not want it, you know what I mean? It's like when you really see, like, people— it's different, it's different vantage points. If you're in the balcony, it's like, oh, that's amazing, they're up there with makeup and cameras and lights. They got a nice— they rode here in a Tahoe. That's amazing. When you in the family, you like, man, I don't want no parts of this. This is— man, like, I actually just want to go to Disney World. I actually just want to be normal. I actually don't— I'm cool, right? So that's how it was. I was like, nah, it's a little chaotic, man. It's a lot of press. It's a lot of— man, folks aren't fair. The judge, the scale ain't fair. None of it's just fair or fun looking for me, just as an intelligent 20-something-year-old. I'm good. Um, and so, um, that blindsided me completely. It was 11 years ago, 2013, Atlanta airport. The Lord spoke like, you're gonna start the church. I was like, whoa, what? So I called my wife, I was like, yo, you think, you think we'll ever start a church? She's like, yeah, I've always known, I was just waiting on God to tell you. I was like, what? No, there's so many reasons why this is a bad idea. Like, wrong answer, wrong answer. I made a list of why God got it wrong, and this is true. So I wrote it down. Here's why this is a bad idea. Number 1, I'm spontaneous, not stable. Number 2, I don't want to wear suits. Number 3, you know, I want to do this. Oh, one of the reasons, I don't want to lose my family. That was the top. I am not trying to lose my kids to this thing. I'm good. I've seen a lot of pastor kids become crackheads. I don't want that. So I'm good, God. No, thank you. Um, number 4, you know, I don't, you know, so I had a whole list of why this was a bad idea. And God, in his graciousness, he didn't shy away from the list. He had an answer and it was, I am anointing you to be different. David, you don't have to be Saul. Like, we could do this different. And your authenticity. I'm calling people to that. And trust me, follow me to a land that I'll show you. And I was like, I guess, all right. And so that's how it happened. It wasn't— I wasn't— I didn't go to a pastor's conference like, oh, this is a good business idea. All right, man, it wasn't because I needed a stage. I had a stage. It wasn't because I needed money. We were all right. And my wife's a dentist, so regardless, we was going to have a big house. I didn't do this for any of that. You know, it was— I was a dentist, so we're already in the top percentile without me ever having to prepare a sermon, you know. So it was— if I'm being very frank, at that time she was in dental school, and the thought is, I've been out here playing my guitar for $200 and going around singing to these little churches for $500 here and there, baby, it might be a good idea for you to do this dental thing and me to raise the kids. I had no problem. I'm not insecure at all. I would play Madden and 2K and watch our kids happy. You kidding me? That was the plan, if I'm being honest. Hey, I'm gonna keep trying this music thing, but if it don't work, you know, dentistry is actually all right, you know. So that was it. And then the music thing just popped off. We dropped the song Intentional, boom, you know, the world opened up. So that was— we didn't see that coming. I didn't see the church coming. I was all right. So The, the, the other part, the B clause to your question though, is that for me, I had to learn the power of integration. And God helped me with this a ton because I was trying too much to segregate the callings on my life. It's like, hey man, well, if I'm, if I'm Travis Green the artist, then people— if I'm just, if I'm too good of Travis Green the artist, no one will respect Travis Green the preacher. Oh man, if I'm David the warrior, nobody ever see me as David the king. And I better leave that harp in the closet, and God forbid they ever see me with a sword. So I had all of this, and God was like, hey, you're overcomplicating it. You still just have one name. You're still David. You're still Travis. And I— you didn't give yourself any of the grace, any of the callings, or any of the anointing. It was me who chose one vessel to pour it into. Mix it up and get over yourself. Please quit trying to make salad when I made you soup. Put it all together, whatever come out. If it come out in a song, if it come out in lyric, if it come out in a book, come out in a sermon, if you come out at a ball game with your kids, if you come out on a date night with your wife, you're still Travis. Be good at life and the calling will find you.

That right there, the power of integration. You said in this chapter, Making God's Dreams Yours, As we talk about God's instruction and God's calling, let's be honest with ourselves, which by the way, I like how you write, how you talk. Sometimes we may be a little scared about what he might ask us to do. What if God's instruction isn't something we want? Do we even want to make God's dreams our own? What if God's dream is something that we deem terrifying or life-changing? If we're honest with ourselves, sometimes we want to walk away from God's call and we try to back out of God's instruction. But then I'm skipping forward. If a great guy like Moses was reluctant to go— he was reluctant to— we shouldn't be ashamed of our own reluctance or fear, but we've got to get over it. God not only made us, but he made us for a reason. Just as Moses found, God has plans for us, and if we seek out his instruction, we must follow it once we know what it is. How do you think— and maybe it didn't change, but how do you think things changed once you stopped doing that, trying to separate things? Once you accepted that, yes, I gave you this gift and this opportunity, your mother poured into you, she fanned the flame, but also in an airport randomly one day, I make it clear to you that I want you to go and in a ministry. I want you to start a church. And yes, this is coming from the same person. Once you stopped, stopped using your energy to stay segmented and release the fear of choosing one over the other, what changed for you? How are you spending your time? Better yet, how are you being intentional with your days? I created the Full Circle Planner to make sure that you were doing both of those well. It is a planner. It's an undated 90-day planner that lets you check off your to-do list while you also check on your soul. It's the best parts of a planner and a journal to make sure that you're getting things done, but also getting the things done that you actually really want to do. So if you need a way to make sure you're moving your tasks forward while you're also creating a life that you love, The Full Circle Planner can do just that. Check it out. Go to thesistercircle.com/planner to get a gift for yourself or a gift for a friend or a gift for the two of you to use together. The Full Circle Planner, y'all, check it out.

That's a great question. I think, you know, one of my favorite scriptures is, uh, found in Romans 12, right? It says, be not conformed to the patterns of this world. Be ye transformed by the renewing of their mind. The thing that changed me in life has always been— and the only thing that could change anybody— transformation is a result of revelation, right? Mind renewal is revelation. When I get a revelation— and the other tricky thing about revelation is that now you become responsible for the revelation you get. So I, I have changed because God has trusted me with revelation. Man, I don't want to even get lost on this trail, but the way everything— there's not even a word, but everything is stewardable, right? So, so the way that I steward a revelation graduates me in this school of life to a trust zone to be trusted with more revelation. Abraham, if you never leave your father's house, we're not even talking about a mountain for your kid. What? Like, forget that. Like, so revelation— if I steward this and, and if I prove to God that what you tell me I, I'll do, then man, I could, I could just be trusted with more. And honestly, Chrystal Hurst, that's what has happened for me. And, and I— when I got that revelation, it simplified life. It simplified life. You know, you talked about Moses, and I just think we get way too— I don't want to use the word spiritual because all of life is spiritual, right? You're not a, you're not a body with a spirit, you're spirit with a body. So everything is spiritual anyway, we know that. Um, but we, we do just make it so grandiose for whatever reason, and it's not. It's simple. And here's— as you were speaking, I got this revelation. That stewardship prepares. Preparation is the reward of stewardship. You're rewarded. And here's the crazy thing about it: you don't know. That's why, that's why you should really, really, really try not to lean to your own understanding. Yeah, you're not smart enough to know what God's up to, ever. But in all your ways acknowledge him and he'll direct. Oh, I just thought I was wasting time in Midian for 40 years. I didn't know that as I was watching Jethro's sheep, God was actually preparing me for 2 million of my own sheep. I had no idea. My stewardship prepared me. And I'm not entering into a prepared place unprepared. That is— man, you talk about a shipwreck. So for me, I don't know if this is answering your question at all. Kind of got lost in my own little stuff. But for me, it is, it is, man, I just want to live. I want to just be ready. I want to be ready for whatever, for whatever. Quit. It ain't that complicated, Travis. You're one guy. If you're walking through your lobby and a kid run up and say, oh my God, it's Travis Green. And somebody who actually serves at the church says, what's up, PT? It ain't no different. You're the same guy. It ain't that deep. It just really ain't that deep. It freed me. It made me comfortable to have books in the lobby or a shirt with my— uh, if a shirt— we're gonna sell this shirt on tour and they got my face on it, just sell it at church. They love it. Some people come to church worshiping with Travis Greene merch on. They don't care. I'm like, oh, they don't— they actually don't care. For a while I was like, keep my CDs out of the church. Separate it. The guy was like, fam, you're doing too much. Just show up, be you, and everything else will fall in place. And the reward of your stewardship— Travis, that I'm preparing you for something else that you have no idea about. Moses had no clue. He thought he was a fugitive. He had no idea that he was in college. He had no idea.

So good. Yeah, you answered the question. What I, what I hear is when you operate in every sphere that God makes space for you to operate in, instead of questioning whether or not you're prepared for it, when he brings the opportunity that you weren't even asking for, and you can look back and see how God has been setting you up, then walk in it, be free in it, because that's The reward is freedom to enjoy him, freedom to enjoy his power at work in you, freedom to let the overflow of that bless everyone else. Because segmenting yourself is refusing to allow even other people, circumstances, places, or ministries to benefit from the overflow of what God's put in you. So you benefit, God's program benefits, and other people benefit when you walk fully into the freedom that he has invited you into based on your preparation. That's what I heard.

Yes, that's what I heard. Yes, yes.

So good.

Yes, so good. The question, the question is, can God trust you? That's really what the question is. That's what the question is. You know, it's the question. It's a tough question, right? I teach there's 3 zones. There's a love zone, and boy, do we get stuck there. He loves us. Oh, how we get stuck there. We cry. And I'm grateful for the love of God. I do not devalue it. I don't, I don't. It is, it is amazing. It is primary. It is everything. It is with love and kindness has he drawn us. For God so loved the world. It's primary. Great. Next, we get stuck at being used by God. This is 98.9% of the church. The body of Christ is so impressed with being used by God. We're so impressed that we think being used by God is being approved by God. Two different things. Ask me how I Saul, Samson, the list goes on and on. You could be used by God and be far from him. Ask me how I know. Uh, a donkey spoke to Balaam. Uh, David had a sling. Aaron and Moses used a rod. Noah had a boat. Jonah had a whale. All of them were used by God and none of those things were human. So you don't even have to be human to be used by God. A crackhead could be used by God. You don't have to be saved to be used by God, right? But we get so impressed. Oh God, use me. 'God used me because he cares about the person on the back row.' Yeah, that's how— that's why he used you. It wasn't the approval of God for you or your character. It's he had mercy that there was somebody there who needed his word. So I'm gonna use you in spite of you. But we get so impressed. I mean, we are— we are addicted to being used by God. We are depressed because we're not used by God the way we want to be used by God. Can anybody see my value? Why am I an usher? I got a word in me. Uh, so, so, so you being used by God is— is— we've made that adultery anyway. We don't want to talk about it. It absolutely is. But we get so impressed. You can use anything, Lord, you can use me, right? So being loved by God, being used by God, great. I love my first cousin, I use a plumber. Neither one of them will get my American Express because the ultimate compliment of heaven is not being loved or used by God, it's being trusted by God. How do I get trusted by God? Stewardship. Yeah, man. Great is thy faithfulness. How great is your faithfulness? Are you faithful? Are you faithful? Well, you know, I'm in church every day. Yeah, but you eat French fries for breakfast. Miss me with your prayer life. Are you faithful? Get good at life. Be faithful. Be faithful. Favor will find you. Can God trust you? Can God trust you?

This has been crazy unexpected in the topic because people are going to think, you know, if they're listening and they have any idea about this, they're going to think they know what you're talking about. Crazy unexpected for me because this is my chance to get to know you a little better. I've had a chance to get to know your wife, Dr. Jackie, but It has been an amazingly wonderful surprise to get to know you in this way. The straight shooter, man, that's my jam. And also, I am convinced that if more people would shoot straight, more people would have less stuff going over their heads. So I am a fan of that. And I just know that our conversation, um, your ministry and your ministry poured into this book from something that you hold close to your heart. Is going to change, um, change people in a way that they've been singing your music for years, but then they're going to understand what you're saying behind all the things you're singing in a different way.

Yeah.

And it's going to hit them on the side unexpected and cause them to think differently. And that's what really is going to matter for how we live our lives. So thank you so much for joining me. This has been amazing. Now I know that hit you. I know it did, because if it hit me, I know it hit you. Don't forget your assignment, okay? Number one, You're supposed to tell me in the comments, what is your takeaway? What is your nugget? What is the thing that hit you right in between the eyes? Number 2, if you haven't already shared this video with a friend, or at least liked it and said, Chrystal Hurst, this was good, do that right now. Last thing, if you're not subscribed to the channel, come on, y'all, quit tripping, go on and subscribe. If you like this though, you might like my interview with his wife, Dr. Jackie Green. I'll make sure that you you have that to watch right after. All right, y'all, enjoy your day, and we'll see you next week.