Why Adult Friendship Feels So Hard

Debra Fileta, y'all, is not a stranger to the Sister Circle Podcast. She has been here a couple of other times. She, in my opinion, is a little bit of a phenom. Before we started recording, I was asking her, when do you write the books? Because this is 9 and you have kids in all age groups, and also you're a counselor, and also you have a counselor's network, and you have a podcast. And she just told me that one of her books she wrote in 16 days. That's called phenom.

I don't know if that's like a curse word or a good word.

No, it's a good word, like phenomenal, like an extra special, like a everybody doesn't do this kind of person.

Oh, that's amazing. Okay, I— it was a stretch. It was 16 and a half days. There was a half day in there too.

Every day? Were you writing every day?

No, it was like one day on for, you know, 6, 7 hours, and then maybe the next week would be— it would count it as another day for about 6, 7 hours, so about 16 different days throughout 3 months.

Okay.

Of writing.

But your normal book writing process is about a 3-ish month process.

Yeah.

Writing 1-ish day a week. 1-ish days a week.

Correct. We'll say 1 to 1.5.

1 to 1.5. I've often said that when I'm writing a book, it is like, um, uh, taking dictation. There are certain parts where it is just coming to me. I'm literally like, mm-hmm. Enjoying it and having it revealed to me as I am typing out the words. When I say that, does that make sense to you? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Total sense to me. Total sense.

It's the best. It's the best.

It's the best. It's the best. And it feels anointed. Yes, those moments. Now, you know this as well as I do, I wish we could have that 100% of the time, right? Obviously that's not the case, but when it does feel like that, it feels anointed. It feels like holy ground. It feels like, Lord, I'm not a good writer. I just want to be a good listener right now.

Yep, yep.

So that I can listen to what you want me to say. And that's when it's easy and fun and good. And then of course there's times when it's a discipline of just sitting down at a blank page and being like, okay, so where do we go from here, God? Um, but I, I love the process because it's just me and Jesus, me and the Holy Spirit, and Sadly, in today's age, I don't know that we get that much time or take that much time to just be in his presence, you know. So, so I wish I could say that I commit 7 hours a week on a regular basis to just sit and, and listen to his Spirit, but I don't. And so that's why those moments really do feel special and holy.

That's so great. Well, you know, when you say it like that, I feel like maybe that's the gift that writing gives us, is it gives us a discipline in which, like any other discipline, like, you know, discipline of silence. I mean, it's something that you're choosing to do to spend time with God. And maybe writing and getting something out that benefits other people gives us another discipline that we can enjoy. I mean, no different than a praise and worship leader who gets to lead praise and worship and they get to enjoy his presence. While they're doing something they have the skill to do. So we'll count it as a gift. Well, number 9, this is where we are. Number 9, people skills. Your covers are great, first of all.

Oh, thank you.

Your relationships are only as strong as your skills. I don't know that I have people skills, Deborah, and let me tell you why. Let me tell you why.

Tell me.

Um, because I am a process project person more than I— and the problem is people never believe this about me because I like having deep conversations. I like sitting across the table from someone and enjoying getting to know them. I like asking hard questions. I like digging. This is why I podcast. So it's not that I don't love and enjoy people, but often there are lots of settings where I feel like I don't get it. Um, so one of the places where I struggle with that, I feel like, is at work because I feel like I miss, I miss the moments when caring, even though I do care, my care isn't the front door or it's the first thing, or I'll see people around me who are really, really people skill people. And I'll be like, oh, like you really took time. You really took time there. And I just kind of. Did the initial question and moved on. So when I saw this, you know, um, I'm going to let this be my little counseling session, but no, in all seriousness, I, I think that while you can, I know that I love people and I think we can love people, but not necessarily naturally have people skills. So I would love to know if I'm going to determine whether or not I have people skills or not, how do I know? I think you probably have some signs that we can utilize to determine if we're in the bucket of the haves or the have-nots.

Yeah. First of all, I love your insight and awareness because I think most of us don't have insight and awareness. If anything, we're really good at seeing what other people are doing wrong or what other people need to do better. We're really good at seeing the speck in our brother's eye and not the plank in our own eye. And so even the fact that you're able to say, I need people skills, is a really important message that many of us don't even start with. And then the fact that you have insight and awareness of like, I know this is how I want to come across, but I also know this isn't always how I'm coming across, is also a lot of insight and awareness. Because most people judge their interactions and their people skills by their intentions, right?

Right.

And not by how they're actually coming across. And I would say a majority of us have good intentions. It just doesn't always translate to good communication and good interactions. And so I think, you know, asking a couple questions such as, number one, have I invited people to give me feedback on how I come across? That's a first and foremost question. Most of us are like, I'd rather not know. The second thing, do I find myself feeling misunderstood on a regular basis? The third thing, do I find patterns of conflict and tension in my closest relationships more often than I would like? You know, those are three things to ask yourself. And if the answer to those are no, I'm not asking for feedback Yes, I am misunderstood often. And, and I'm not coming across the way that I want to. I have tension in my relationships. There's a good chance that you've got some work to do in this department.

So why did you write this book? Now, obviously you counsel people all the time. Um, and I'm sure that a lot of the fodder for the things that you want to talk more about come from that, but why this right now? Why do you think this is an important thing that we need to major on, or that many people do anyway?

Two big reasons. I would say the first is our technologically saturated world. It's getting scary out there. I mean, when you think about how much screen time we have now compared to what we had as kids, what our kids are, are facing right now, where you used to have to go into the grocery store and have to chat with the cashier. You were forced to. You had to chat with her in order to get your groceries. We live in a day where I can just press click, leave it at my front door. I don't want to talk to anybody. You know, we've outsourced people for devices. We don't even have those natural interactions built in anymore. So we're losing our ability to, to engage and communicate face to face. We don't even have the opportunity anymore. And I actually think we're on the front end of this, and we're going to start seeing the effect of screens and technology and a lack of people skills even more over the next decade, but it's starting to appear now in how we do relationships. So that's the first thing that's on my radar. The second thing is that as a church, as a body of believers, I think we may have good intentions, but we are not coming across in the way that we want to. I think our love is being convoluted instead of conveyed to a lost and desperate world because we're lacking in the skills of how to effectively communicate that love, and our own junk is getting in the way. We are getting in the way of being able to convey God's love in the most effective way. So I feel like there's a spiritual component here that matters. You know, I think of Paul in 1 Corinthians 9 when he says, I have become all things to all people, so that by all means possible, some might be saved. And to me, that's the epitome of people skills. I'm learning how to be the most effective I can in communicating this message so that I don't have an excuse, so that I don't get in the way of conveying God's love to this world. And I think that's my true heart behind this message, is that we would just learn these skills so that we can do a better job conveying God's love in the way that he's called us to convey it.

Now, you're a counselor, so I'm gonna assume you got people skills. Um, do you feel like— do you feel like you have always— not that you didn't have to work on it, but been more naturally people-skilled oriented?

I would say I am a natural extrovert. I enjoy people, and I like engaging with people. I've always liked that. And I would say I would have told you I had good people skills in certain seasons of my life. But as I look back, I was lacking in a lot of things that weren't even on my radar. Um, you know, I think you can come across in a way you don't even realize that you're coming across. You can exude pride, you can exude self-centeredness, you can exude insecurities, you can exude so many different things that you're not necessarily aware of. Your body language, whether it's cool and inviting and, and, you know, keeping people at a distance, or warm and inviting, The problem is we're not necessarily aware of how we come across. And so we judge it by our intentions. And I had good intentions. And so if you would have asked me then, I might have told you, yeah, I have a 9 out of 10 people skills. But looking back even a decade ago, I would say it was actually more like a 5 out of 10. I just didn't know it. And so that's the thing that I think is, is the reality check is that we all can continually learn and grow because as we're increasing in our people skills, we're also becoming more like Jesus. And there's always room for growth.

Hey, you got your plans ready for the summer yet? I'm trying to get mine set. The books I'm going to read, the fun that I'm going to have in the sun, and the time that I'm going to spend, of course, getting together with my girls. One of my favorite things to do when I get with my girls is to get together with you. Every Monday morning I'm doing Life Mentoring. Life coaching, and giving you direction as a big sister so you can live your life well. I want you to be in the room. So how can you be in the room? Join the club. Listen, you go to thesistercircle.com/innercircle, and that's it. You can join the club. And the good news is, when you're in the club, you get special invites to other things. All summer long, we're gonna be talking about what it looks like to live your life well and what you're supposed to do to grow up, girl. It's time to grow up. Be in the room this summer, sistercircle.com/innercircle. I want you in the club. I know that you, um, you know, you mentioned our intention and we perceive that, um, that's how we're being received. And that may not be the case. And we have to make sure we have feedback and that's where asking people or inviting their input is important. I also think that. For someone like me, who for a variety of reasons, firstborn, all that, achiever, that many things, uh, can get rolled really quickly in for me for people pleasing, which means that if I invite a lot of feedback, that can be problematic. And so how can we invite feedback in a way that allows us, um, in a safe way to receive feedback that counts, that we should act on. Um, and I also ask that because, because we're in a highly therapized society where everybody is, whether they are formally or informally made aware of their needs or the need to set boundaries or, um, what the impact of, uh, their family of origin has been, there's a lot of communication about Um, how you are impacting me. You know, it's just become a part of our culture to talk about the impact, which for someone like me can be a lot. Cause then I'm like, oh my goodness, I did this wrong. I did this wrong. I did this wrong, but I meant to do this. And should I listen to this person? Is this person's feedback one that I should take? Is it them? Is it me? So when we talk about the feedback mechanism, how can we do that in a healthy way. Um, I'll add one more thing. I, I know that, um, was talking to some friends of mine who were married, and we were asking this one girl, you know, what does your husband say about it? And she literally said, oh, I don't take anything he says because his feedback mechanism is broken. Like, if he says it to me, that doesn't necessarily mean it's true, you know what I mean? Um, so how can we adjust and arrive at a place of better skills with people, um, but giving the feedback from people adequate place in our life?

Yeah, I think it starts with adjusting our personal filter first.

Okay.

Because we don't wanna put ourselves in places to receive if we are apt to receive too much or receive too little. Like, we want to adjust our filter first, and that means addressing our people-pleasing tendencies. There's a whole chapter in People Skills. People Skills has 31 miniature chapters on these skills, and addressing people skills is one of them because it's so important, because it amplifies the filter, and I end up receiving far more feedback than I was intended to receive. Everybody gets put in a similar category, rather than having this healthy differentiation of what I am to receive and what I am to reject. And so I think it starts with some of those underlying beliefs and narratives and adjusting our filter. And then with adjusting our filter, it's also important to note that there are different levels of relationship. And the more healthy, safe, and secure the relationship, the more access they have to my life, the more feedback I am invited to receive from them, versus the less healthy a relationship is, the less access they have to my life, and the less feedback I am invited to, to take from them. And there's a chapter in People Skills even about the feedback loop and how Just because somebody gives you feedback doesn't mean you receive it. And, and how to know where to put people on the spectrum. The problem is some of us see the spectrum as a yes or a no. Yes, I receive your feedback and that means I take everything you say as God's truth or no, I don't receive your feedback and that means I take nothing you say. But it's more of a spectrum of health than it is a yes or no question. You know, and I think even just seeing it like that helps us have awareness of where we want to put somebody in their relationship with us on that spectrum of how much we're going to receive and how much we're going to reject.

Well, I love in the Feedback Loop chapter that the visual that you give about red, yellow, or green. I was having a conversation with one of my kids and just the setup, um, in his life for some things he's working on. And it's like, is this a, whether it's people or his habits, like, are we in a red zone, a yellow zone, or a green zone? And talking about it in an objective term. So it's not like, well, it's this person. It's just, are they red? You know, is this a red situation, yellow situation, or green situation? I'd love to talk a little bit about, because so much of the feedback loop that we want can be based off of not just our verbal interactions or even interpersonal interactions, But can be based off of nonverbal things that we're doing that we're unaware of. I mean, it's a part of the interaction, but not an intentional one because it's not words that are coming out of our mouths. I have a cousin who is so, so— we laugh about it now, but when she was in college, she came to, uh, Dallas. She was at SMU. So she came to church at my church every Sunday and she would just sit there after church by herself while everybody else was talking and gathering. And then, and, um, When people would meet her, they would say, they would, or they would see her and they'd be like, well, what's wrong with her? And I'd say, well, what's wrong with you? Everybody always wants to know what— she was like, nothing. She said, I don't know why anybody, nobody talks to me. It's just nobody talks to me. I don't have anything to say to them. And of course with age, I mean, that was 20, 25 years ago. Of course, of course with age, she can now look back and see that her body language, her face, everything about her was saying, don't talk to me. Um, How can we become better at understanding the impact of our nonverbals?

It's interesting because some of the people that are more aware of their nonverbals are actually performers and actors, and that's because they have to be aware of their nonverbals. And sometimes they, they actually have an assignment where they have to stand in front of a mirror to do different role-playing to see how they look and what their nonverbals are coming across. How many of us do that? You know, like, life is even more important than a performance. And I think it's really rare for us to stand in front of a mirror and actually get a front row seat into how we look, our resting face, our body language. One of the chapters on body language, I actually encourage you to do that homework of pulling up a full-length mirror and acting out certain scenarios where you might have an emotional response, maybe meeting someone for the first time, maybe confronting someone about a difficult topic or conversation, maybe an apology. What do you look like when you're apologizing? And making sure that it matches your intention and taking that part of communication just as seriously and intentionally as the words that are coming out of your mouth, because your effectiveness has so much correlation to your ability to communicate. And your body language is a really big part of that, that you don't actually see. Other people see it. You don't see it unless you give yourself the opportunity to see it or ask others for feedback to tell you, hey, how do I come across in those scenarios? I know my husband, especially when we were early married, he would tell me like, you come across as really intense, you know. And, and I never saw it as intense. Like, I'm just passionate. It's who I am. But when I'm upset about something or I'm offering feedback, I can bring that same enthusiasm into a negative way because I'm talking about something negative or something I want to see adjusted or fixed. And it can come across as much more intense than what I want it to be. And so having that feedback and being able to kind of analyze, well, how do I do this in a way that conveys what's actually in my heart? Taking inventory of not just my words, but my tone and my body language is a big part of learning how to communicate well.

So you seem so laid back and so— do I? And so intentionally methodical in your verbiage, like I jumped off, you know, did the little call. But I am aware that often if I'm processing a lot or if I am, um, even nervous about something, I'm going to talk fast and I'm gonna, um, overcompensate for what I'm trying to figure out by getting a lot of words out of my mouth. And I literally was just thinking, you gotta match your energy, girl. Like, you gotta slow down a little bit because I'm Every time I talk to you, um, easy, ease is what I experience. And, um, just a level of, um, paced intentionality with how you speak. So my question is, um, that doesn't determine whether or not you're intense, but my question is, is that intentional or is that, um, you know, a part of your intention with how you communicate with people?

It's interesting because I have actually had to fight the opposite. Sometimes when I hear myself talk, I actually think, okay, you're talking way too slow. Just pick up the pace a little bit. Even if I'm listening to— if I'm relistening to a podcast episode, I'm like, I need to speed this up to 1.25 because I am so intentional with how I communicate. I try to think about a word before I let it fly out of my mouth. Sometimes, though, that feels too slow to me. And sometimes I'm like, okay, maybe I should pick it up a little bit. But I have found that there is something to be said of thinking before you speak. And even if that means a slower pace, I'm taking less risk being slower in what comes out of my mouth. Be quick to listen, slow to speak. I'm like, you know what? Even if it does sound slow to me or slow to our culture, I'm okay with that. And sure, if someone needs to speed me up on a podcast, so be it, you know. So yeah, I guess in some ways it is intentional, but I still have to fight against the inner dialogue that's like, you should speak faster, you should, you know, get more out in a sentence. Maybe don't talk so slow so it's not so boring. But I think I would rather be intentional and not say something that I'm like, "Oh, shoot, I wish I wouldn't have said that," than the opposite. So in some ways it is intentional. But now, you know, that deep down, it's like, even I have to kind of figure out, am I okay with this being who I am and how God has made me, even if somebody else isn't okay with it, you know?

Yeah, I love that. I love learning that about you. Obviously, the reason why we want to have people skills is because, you know, as a believer, we want to make sure, um, you know, as you mentioned earlier, that our, um, not only that our intentions are correctly received, but that we are positioned to share, um, in other people's lives, to share the gospel, to share relationship, community in a way that is uplifting, life-giving, and in service of others. But, um, you know, one of the benefits of having good people skills is deep relationships. And I have a really good friend. We've been friends for over 30 years and anybody in my community knows, knows who she is. Her name is Michelle. I call her Shelly. Um, but here recently there have been some things that have happened in my life and I've thought, I, you know, was like, picked up the phone. Shelly was at work and then I thought, okay, I'm gonna call my sister. And then I thought, who else do I call? I have lots of friends. And I think that having few friends is not bad, but it made me think, am I investing well in relationships where when something is good or when something is bad, I'm able to think beyond two people that I have cultivated relationship with when it comes to deep and meaningful relationships. Um, and the value of people skills in it. So many women, particularly where I live, are like, I don't have friends. Or, you know, I've tried to get connected with people and I'm not having luck with that. So that's where someone is. And they're just really thinking about people skills through the lens of, I need people. And obviously there's something about me that has not lent itself to me finding my people. Where would you have them start?

Yeah, I think the older you get, the less you need people and the more you need people. It's kind of a weird dichotomy because you don't need people in the same way that you did when you were young. Who has time for that, you know, with life and kids and career? Like, we don't even have time for that. So you don't need people in this— just this— the mere socializing, fun aspect. But you do realize you need people in the sense of like support and life and somebody to kind of walk with you through this journey of life that is good but also really hard. You know, I, I just walked through a significantly difficult year and a half, and I don't know how I would have gotten through it without my core group of prayer warriors and sisters in Christ who held up my arms when I felt like I couldn't. And that didn't just happen by chance, you know, it happened with intentionality and time and consistency. And so you don't wait for the pain to come. You start investing in those relationships beforehand. And I think you're right, Chrystal Hurst. I don't actually think you need more than 2, 3, or 4 people. And I think there's different levels. I think there's level 1, the core group that knows you in and out, the ones that you're going to invest in the most, but they're also investing in you. And then I think there's the next level, level 2, of people who are not your core group, but maybe they would be that third or fourth or fifth phone call if you need to get away and meet someone for coffee and process. And then there's the third group, level 3, are kind of like the default friends who we see at church or we see at co-op, or we see at work, um, but, but not necessarily one-on-one friends, but they're kind of the people that we see on the peripheral. And knowing where those people are, for me, helps me know how much to invest in those relationships, because I can't expect a level 1 friendship without level 1 investment. And if I look at my level 1 and I'm like, I could use another person or two in here, then I look out at my level 2 and I decide, well, who do I want to invest in to bring in a little closer? Because you can't do it to 100 people, but at the same time that you're not going to develop these level 1 friendships without a level 1 investment. And, and so it kind of helps gauge like, where do I need to invest more, where do I need to invest less? Sometimes we find that we're actually investing way more time and energy in level 3, in the peripheral, and it's like, wait a second, that's backwards. I don't need to do that. I just need to focus in on what's in front of me with level 1 and level 2. So I think that can be really helpful if even just mapping it out. I think the first thing I would say is start with a social map. Actually draw it out. Draw out 3 circles and maybe write initials of who's in level 1, who's in level 2, who's in level 3. And maybe if I have no one in level 1, I can think, well, there's 1 or 2 people in level 2 that I would really like for them to come into level 1. So what would it look like for me to be more intentional with those relationships? Um, and just kind of map it out because it'll really help you put language to the relationships, but also help you know where to invest more and where maybe you need to pull back a little bit as well.

What does it look like for you to have— for you, and I know it can look different for different people, but what does level 1 investment look like? Not when the pain comes, but the investment that's— that you found that you were making beforehand in order to build the connections that we all need at some point in our life.

Yeah, I think it looks different for everyone because different relationships and different people have different needs in relationships. But for me, I would identify myself as someone who is highly relational with a smaller group. So that for me looks like regularly texting my two core friends. We're texting on a regular— I don't have sisters. So I consider my, my 2 to 3 friends in my core group, my sisters. And so that would mean regularly texting them, reaching out to them, filling them in on my life, hearing about theirs, sharing the highs and lows with them, being intentional to get them on my calendar and me on theirs and not just like, oh, we'll see whatever happens. I hope we can get together this month. That would be more of a level 2 or a level 3 person. But with my level 1 friends, I'm like, we need to get something on the calendar because if it's not in the calendar, it's not going to happen. Let's be intentional about planning our get-togethers, our family gatherings, our coffee dates, our prayer dates, and really investing my time and energy in that way, in a way that I would not do for level 2 or 3 friends. So we, we only have limited capacity. And I couldn't have 5 to 10 people in that circle, but you don't need to have 5 to 10 people in that circle. You know, I think it's a, it's a meaningful group, but it also requires you to— your, your intentionality and your energy. So it has to be limited.

That's really good. And I think, I mean, I know what you're saying about it being different for different groups of folks and all that, but I think where I live, just the simple explanation that you just gave, just has given somebody the, oh yeah, okay, so let me intentionally, you know, once a week or whatever, text them. Because it's just, why is it that's not happening? And somebody's not able to really identify, oh, I don't ever text them actually. You know, I just kind of, you know.

The other thing that it revealed to me, Chrystal Hurst, is there was a season where I had someone in my level 1 that shouldn't have been because I was being the one to initiate as much as possible and to plan and to connect and to put in the work. But I was getting a level 3 response in return, and it was frustrating me. It was annoying me. It was actually painful. Like, why am I— I'm putting all this effort in and I'm not getting much back. So instead of just staying annoyed and bitter, I decided, you know what, I'm going to take her and move her into level 3 because it's a level 3 investment on her part. It doesn't mean I have to cut her out of my life, but she can be a level 3 for me and I can be a level 3 for her. And that seems to be what works for her life. And that's totally fine. No, no ill— and it's— there's nothing wrong with that. But for someone like me, I want to pour in my level 1 to people who are just as committed to that. So it can also help you decide, you know, if you're not feeling like you're receiving that from somebody, well, maybe it's time to just shift your expectations and shift Shift your investment a little bit too.

Speaking of investment, I know that, um, one of the things you talk about is vulnerability and how that leads to, uh, how that leads to intimacy. But the reality, um, being that, uh, vulnerability is uncomfortable. We, we, we want the kind of connection that vulnerability brings. Uh, and then you've got people that for the name of vulnerability and connection are just oversharing all the things. So can you walk us through what it looks like to hold vulnerability as a people skill and to hold it in its right place?

Yeah, I don't, I don't wanna overdo the circle analogy, but it's just makes it so clear in my mind.

Listen, I feel completely validated. This is what I did a few weeks ago. I literally, I love it, built my circles, color and everything.

So I'm totally here.

Exactly.

That's how I think. It's like, I think in that way. And so for me, it's like, The level 1s, there's a different level of vulnerability that's going to be there versus the level 3s. And honestly, if you listen to even my content, my podcasts, my interviews, I reserve some of that vulnerability. I'm not one of those people that's just a blah blah blah open book about everything, because to me that's kind of reserved for the people who have earned that trust and access to my life. And I don't feel bad about not giving it to the people who haven't earned it. I don't feel like it's inauthentic. To me, that's just protective, you know, like I'm just going to protect my heart. And so, but where it becomes dangerous is if you're always protecting your heart with everybody. So, so kind of seeing it as the closer you are, the more vulnerability. You know, my husband is obviously number one when it comes to my ability to be completely vulnerable. My, my best friends, my children, my parents. And then from there it kind of goes out to level 2, level 3, a little bit less with each level of relationship. And just because someone's family doesn't mean they automatically get level 1. I'm sure people know that, but I just want to reiterate one more time.

Just say it one more time for the people in the back.

Just because they're family doesn't mean they get an automatic seat in level 1. Because it's not based on blood, it's based on investment, it's based on the health of the relationship or lack thereof. So I think that's important to note because sometimes we feel like, oh, it's family, they need to have an in, but that's not necessarily accurate nor healthy. So I base it not just on like the family tree, I base it on the level of health and investment in the relationship.

So good. So good. Well, one more question. I know that, um, the whole area, rejection and forgiveness and, um, apologizing and when there is breakdown in relationship, and that's, I think, where it's easiest for people skills to be needed because, um, when we are hurting or when we've hurt other people, It's, it can be difficult to show up as our best selves when we're all in protection mode or we're defensive or, uh, we're playing the blame game. And so, um, when we are hurt, so if somebody's listening to this and they were interested in watching or listening because people skills, yes, I need that because all the people in my life are whack and all the people have got problems all the way around. Um, and I'm hurt because of that. You know, I'm, I'm working through, uh, what I'm going to do to not only resolve the hurt, but possibly repair the relationship. Um, if I'm going to assess the surroundings and I'm trying to figure out, is it me? Is it them? Um, you know, do we need time? Should I resurrect? Should I even bother resurrecting it? But I'm hurt. And a lot of people. Including myself, don't necessarily make the best decisions or think as clearly when we're hurt. How can I get clarity? How, how can I, if I am the person who's offended, if I'm the person who's hurting, if I am the person who feels left out or alone, um, or misunderstood, but I want to fix it. I want to fix it. Um, but I've got all these emotions and, you know, I need to find a starting point for working myself back to relationship. Is there some— are there some thoughts that you would share with me or with whoever's listening or watching about how to work myself out of that place in a healthy way? As I figure out the details of forgiveness and rejection and repair, how do I begin working myself from that place?

Yeah. First of all, the key word is working myself. That's the key word, because we want to work them out of that place, work them into health, work them into— we want to control their portion, and we can't. The, the thing we have the most control and power in the equation is us. Relationships are like a recipe. You have your set of ingredients, I have my set of ingredients. As long as we keep the ingredients the same, nothing is changing. But if I change my ingredients, if I refine them, if I get the highest quality ingredients, if I toss the bad and, and keep the good of my own ingredients, it changes the entire recipe. So I have so much influence in how I respond and react, how I set boundaries, how I choose to say no, how I choose to invest my time and energy. I have so much that I can do. To change the equation. So that would be the first thing, is focus on yourself, because that is so powerful in the equation of a relationship. You can't change them, but when you change your ingredients, it influences the entire recipe. And then the second thing I would say is that oftentimes God uses these type of relationships, especially difficult moments where we're feeling the feelings and we're getting triggered to reveal something in us that he wants to heal, to reveal a sore spot of rejection, insecurity, abandonment, inadequacy, something from the past or a pattern we faced that's getting pressed on in the present by somebody in front of us. Maybe a friend says something rude and it kind of triggers our insecurity, and we realize, wait a second, it's not just about what she said, I actually have a, a wound of insecurity that I've been traveling with for many, many years. And in those moments, often God is revealing something in us that he wants us to pay attention to and heal. And when we do that, we are then able to respond in a healthy way. We can be more clear in our response. Again, going back to the verse in Matthew that says, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. What I love about that verse is that Jesus isn't saying don't remove the speck from your brother's eye. Your brothers have specks in their eyes. Your sisters have specks that they need somebody to call them out. But first, deal with your 80%. And then go to them with the 20 of, hey, I need you to adjust this, this really hurt my feelings, I'd like us to do it differently. But, but you can't do that when you're all jacked up in your emotions and in your head and you're triggered by things from your past, because then you're going to overreact to the situation because there's a plank in your eye rather than seeing clearly to be able to say, okay, this is This is my part to own, and this is your part to own. So the work that you invest in yourself, which is the keyword where you started working on yourself, that's the secret ingredient to all of this.

Which is where good therapy comes in because sometimes assistance, uh, or a mirror or the right questions, um, or understanding that what we're experiencing or feeling is a part of patterns in lots of people's lives. It helps us to not kind of get lost, um, in ourselves. Like you said, in this day and age, some things that maybe happen naturally because of our rubbing with other people in our lives, we're having to actually learn or relearn in this society where we can stay at home and be completely connected, so we think. But then we realize once we leave our house, we're not really connected to anyone at all. So I think there's a new opportunity for us to learn and relearn people skills. So yeah, congratulations on book 9. You're a wonder. It's amazing. And, um, thanks for joining me for today's podcast. I'm excited to have you on and share your genius with everybody.

Once again, I always love chatting with you, Chrystal Hurst. I appreciate you so much and I appreciate the Sister Circle.

We're grateful for you too. Thanks again.