Yvonne Orji: Bamboozled by Jesus

Y'all, sometimes I podcast because I want to keep it deep. Sometimes I podcast because I want to make you cry. Sometimes I'm podcasting because I really want to tell you something you don't know. Every now and then I'm podcasting because there's a little bit of deep mixed in with a lot of dynamic laughter. If you don't know who Yvonne Orgy is, well, you will after this episode. And I want to make sure that you are prepared to laugh. So that means if you need to add on— let's, let's say that— some extra absorbent material Ladies, you know who you are. Go ahead and take care of that right now, or go ahead and empty your bladder so that way you don't have to worry about the extra absorbent material. No matter what, uh, you're gonna have a great time in this interview, but don't skip, uh, the deep nuggets because you're laughing so hard, because there are plenty of them, more and more as we go. If you want to know what it is to have your life be taken by storm because God shows up and allows you to engage in the plans that he had that you never had in mind, Well, that's the kind of life you could live when you're bamboozled by Jesus. And Yvonne Orji is going to tell us all about it. Here we go. Writing— did you write, write? Did you go— did you have a ghostwriter? What, what was— what, what happened here, Chrystal Hurst?

This— why you think I'm pushing so hard? This— every single word— when I tell you I was shooting a movie writing, like, it's so much so that I don't even remember. Like, they, they didn't even remember me on set because I wasn't— I was in my scene and then I was in my trailer. There was no hanging out like, "How y'all doing?" I don't even know who my castmates were. I was so— I said, "Oh, this is cute." And when I tell you, I started guest directing because I was like, "Are you going to see me on the turnaround? Okay, is this a two-shot?

Okay." I'm out.

Girl, I said, "I think my character will be gone by the time this happens in the scene. Matter of fact, write her out. If she not going, write her out." I was writing every single word of this, and pre-pandemic, post-pandemic, every single word. And then even when, um, because I did switch publishers, um, halfway through, and then I kind of had to rewrite it. So yeah, girl, it was me.

Okay, but why? Because people will assume, you know, you got, you got options. And you have an audience. And so if you would have wanted to do it another way, that probably could have been an option. But people who write words are like, these are my words and I need to say them sometimes. So why was it important for you to write yourself?

Yeah, I think for me, I don't— I don't know what that process would have looked like if someone else did. I mean, I'm Nigerian, and sometimes I think our sixth love language is suffering. So maybe I just— Nigerians love to suffer. We just love to suffer ourselves. Like, literally everybody was like, girl, you want to live this life? Like, you could have somebody. And I think for me, I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. And I think, you know how, like, when rappers talk about, like, you don't write your own rhymes? Like, I didn't want anyone to, like, even— try and discount, you know, my ability. Like, and it's not even a discount because sometimes, like, my lawyers were like, no, people are just busy and they can talk to somebody who's really good. It is still your words and it's still your story, but somebody else did it. And I just like, nah. Like, I just, I don't know, like, for me, and I'm glad I did it because I think because when you're also so in the weeds of stuff, even when you think something is done, like, I went back and I was like, of course I want to say it like this. I want to say, and my voice My voice is so specific. I didn't want it to be a book where it was just like, 'And thou art,' and 'Thus says the Lord,' because it could have been.

I'm sure you've ever— if you've ever flipped on an Audible and listened, one, the voice will throw you if somebody— if you know the voice in somebody else's voice. But the words will throw you. I can tell. I can tell when somebody had a writer. Every blue moon you have a really good one, but most of the time I'm like— especially if it's a voice I'm used to hearing, I know they're— and I don't mean their, their voice, I mean their tone in which they talk. And you can note there are nuances that you can miss if the ghostwriter is not great. Okay, so now that you did it, would you do it again?

Here's the thing. So from— to your point, I'm like, who else gonna get DMX references? Who else is gonna say like Abraham was the first f— fboy? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, that's a very specific— and for your readers and your audiences, y'all can figure out, ask your nieces and nephews what a fboy is. We gonna keep it holy. But you know what I'm saying? Like, the way I think, it had to come— because I think about Bible stories, I think about the Bible, I think about my relationship with God in a way that's not, like, super religious, in a way that's not, like, alienating. For me, it is truly like, how do I make this make sense to, like, the person in 2023 that was like, "I don't really rock with the Bible. Like, what that got to do with my life now?" And it's like, "Yes. Let me tell you. I got it." And that was very important for me. Even when I was doing the audiobook, people were like, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah." Like, authors were like, "No, the audiobook has to sound exactly like the written word. You can't give anything extra." No.

Girl, you get your best revelations when you talking. It just comes when you talking.

I said, but my friend— see, this is why you have to have good friends around you. My friend was like, is that person a performer? No. So then that advice does not apply to you. And I said, sure enough, because in the audiobook, girl, you got the Nigerian accent coming out in places where I have it. You get the DMX bars. I'm like, hey, yo. You get my mama be like, "I don't understand this thing you want to do." It is like a one-woman show for 6 hours. And so much so, Chrystal, that I just got my numbers from the publishers. The audiobook and the hardcover have done the same exact amount. She was like, "We don't see that." They are neck and neck. OK? Some people got the hardcover. Some people got the audiobook and then got the hardcover because they were like, we want to hear your voice, but we need—

you want both.

It was just so much notes. We want to— we want— so I say all that to say, I believe that needed to be my voice.

Yeah.

Um, you asked, would I do it again? Would I do what again? Write a book or write it myself?

And both.

Here's the thing. I didn't even need or want to write this book. OK? This was God— this is God bamboozling me. And the thing— the reality was, I'm not mad at it because God was like, basically, daughter, you have something experienced in this point of your life that so many other people need faith/hope for. Before it gets to like, oh, you all the way over there, you don't know what it's like. No, no, no. I just made it over to the threshold. So let me tell you what worked for me. I'm still learning as I go. But what I know— like, I think sometimes people wait to be— I'm going to say an expert because I'm not an expert. I don't think I'm an expert. But I think people wait to be so, like, big and mighty and untouchable. And my thing is like, hey, fam. You know good and dang on well, if you go to a good restaurant and you're just like, that restaurant is so dope. Like, I need everybody— like, y'all got to go. I just left. Like, let me tell you right now, I'll buy you a gift card. Like, it's like you just tasted it. It's like, I don't know what it's going to look like in 2 years when, you know, they get busy and popping. But for right now, the restaurant is so good. Please go. You telling everybody. So for me, that's why the moment that I did write the book felt necessary, felt timely. Because it was like, I have just spent the better half of a decade finding out about a dream, living a dream, sitting in the dream. And now I'm like, hey, fam, let me tell you what it was like. Don't get it twisted. Don't let these checks fool you. It was hard. It was crazy. I wanted God to take his dreams back because I would rather somebody else's nightmares because this some trash. I don't want to— I don't know if I want to follow you anymore. And it's like, that's a real feeling. And so if you're feeling that, please don't give up. It's— you're just human. You're just natural. It's natural. But I, I guarantee you, on the other side of it, you gonna be glad you didn't give up.

Well, here's what I want to know. I want to know, what did you know about yourself when you were younger that— like, some people will say I always knew I was going to be a doctor. I always knew I was going to be a writer. I always knew, or I didn't really know, but now when I look back, these are the, the obvious things that, um, that totally makes sense about me as to why I'm doing what I'm doing now. I mean, you're multi-passionate. Of course, you're an actress, you're a comedian, you're a writer, you're an author. Um, but when you look back, what did you know when you were young, or what do you now know looking back at your youth about how you ended up where you are now?

I didn't know I was ever going to be a performer. I didn't.

Like, you weren't always the performer, like at 6, making everybody laugh?

Let me, let me be— let me, let me prep— let me, let me, let me walk you through it.

I can't imagine that. I can't imagine there wasn't some version of this then.

I grew up in a very Nigerian household. I know, whether you were performing or not, it did not mean you was going to be making a living from it. So, so, so here are some— so here are some telltale signs that I should have known some things, right? So, um, when I was bullied at school there were these talent shows. There were talent shows. And because I ain't had no friends, nobody ever wanted to do the talent show with me. But Yvonne Orgy would pick a song by Total, by Xscape, by SWV. These were— girl groups. And it's just me with one mic doing all the parts because it wasn't gonna stop that I wanted to do that song. It was never gonna stop. And it's so funny, there's a teacher who I still keep in contact with. She was a 5th grade teacher at Oakland Elementary— Eisenhower Middle, was it? No, yeah, she was a middle school teacher. This was middle school. Yes. At Eisenhower Middle School, 6th grade teacher, Ms. Rice. Woo, child. Back then, she was Ms. George. But so now she's Ms. Rice. She would be like, you know the girls don't like you. Why are you doing this? Because in my mind, I was just like, if I can win them over by my fantastic performance, like, come on. And each year, they would be like, we don't like you all the more. And it didn't stop me. So then the other thing that was telling— because there's 3 things. So that was the one, the talent shows that didn't stop it. Then I would go— I would be in the bathroom, and I would start creating conversations. Because again, you ain't got no friends. So I would be role-playing, like, when I get to school and I see her, I'm going to be like, what up, though? You know, like, I would just— I would make up scenarios. And either I was fighting them back or I was practicing how to be their best friend. Like, I was literally rehearsing— again, things that actors do. I was rehearsing scenes, not even knowing. Cut to, again, because I was bullied, you're isolated. I would go to the library. I would rent 12 books at a time and just get lost in words and worlds. Sweet Valley High, goosebumps. Jessica and Elizabeth were my friends, OK?

Mine too. Mine too.

They were really white. But I was like, this girl, if she don't get with Todd, then I don't even understand. Like, ooh, it's best— like, I didn't know where Sweet Valley High was, but I wanted to be a student. Because I was like, that high school is cracking, OK? They're getting into all the things. And for me, that was my escape. It was like these worlds. I could transport. I can be somewhere else and not have to remind myself that I'm isolated and destitute and friendless. And it felt loveless. So when I look back now over my life—

And I think things over. Come on.

It's like, oh, those were seeds. And then, of course, when you're beaten down enough, and you try to rise up, but you still get beaten down, there comes a point where you're just like, "All right. Well, we did everything we can do. Maybe that won't even work." And so then, cut to, I'm a grad student and God tells me to do comedy. I'm like, "No, sir. Remember back in 6th grade when we were doing that? Nah, I'm good." Because here's the thing, it's one thing to lip sync somebody else's song.

It's true.

It's another thing to have to curate jokes that could not work in front of an audience like Nigerians, because it was the Miss Nigerian American Pageant. Baby, I said, "Hey God, hey God, yeah, no, I'm not doing this with you." And then I did it anyway. And here we are. Here we are. I didn't think I was funny, but I used to sit on my daddy's lap. My daddy— I grew up with all men in my household. It was just me and my mom. And my dad, I remember when we would go to Nigeria, he would hold court. We would sit outside on the veranda, and it would be him and his friends drinking Guinness or Heineken. And you just hear an eruption of laughter, just —oh, ho, ho. You know, Nigerian men laugh to be like, OK, Santa Claus is here. But it'd be like, ho, ho, ho. I mean, did I tell you about the time that— and then they'd just like laugh. And so I would just be sitting like, wha— you know? And my dad would be like, yo, he ain't enjoying senor jokes. And I was like, I guess. I don't know. But when God deposited the idea of comedy in me, I just remembered, like, I want to have that power, whatever that was. I want to have the ability to make my dad laugh. I want to have the ability to make his friends laugh. Because that was— those were the moments where it was just like the little girl in me was mesmerized by this thing that I didn't even understand then. But now God was putting it in my heart. I'm like, if I have the power to do that thing that I was mesmerized by so many years ago, that's what I want.

So, the thing is, and you've said it a couple of different ways, God gave me the idea, God deposited the thought about comedy. And you're right, there are— you don't go to college, you know, Nigerian or not. Nobody rarely does. I mean, you know, there are things that are the checkboxes, you know, and I know, culturally, there are some specific checkboxes, but very few people say, go to college and work on your comedy, you know.

Um, yeah, that's not what I said either.

Well, that's what— that's why I think it's so important for me to ask you this question. Um, people everywhere want to know, how do I know when God is telling me something? How do I know when it's a God idea? You know, it's not just a random idea, it's a God idea. Like, I didn't just have a, you know, a blip of my mind. Like, God is telling me something. And I think that is so out out of the way of what would be normally accessible to you based on upbringing and thought and all that. What did that look like? How did God deposit— how did he tell you? How did that idea come to you? And how did you know that idea was God?

I was getting my master's in public health because I was stalling from not going to med school, because that's the plan.

That was the plan.

Yes. And the only thing Nigerians love more than education is more education. So I was like, if I am in school, I can buy myself 2 and a half more years to figure out how I either don't go to med school and tell them, or figure out how to like blood so I can go to med school. I was like, whose doctor was I going to be if I didn't like blood? Whose? Please. Oh, Jesus wept. And he was crying for me. So anyway, I'm getting my master's, and this pageant comes up. And I don't think anything about it because, again, I, in my mind, believed I could be a model. But, again, I was beaten down so much that I was like, am I even pretty? Am I? I literally was just like, I'm not. It's cool. But then my brother was like, hey, I have my friends who are doing this Miss Nigerian American pageant. They're looking for contestants. What do you think? And I think the thought of it was like, ah. Oh my God, maybe I could be pretty. You know, it's like, what if I am pretty? And so I focused only on that. Like, I went and got a dress, a swimsuit, and 2 weeks before the pageant, they were like, so what's your talent? What's your talent? I said, oh, I don't have one. I'm a child of immigrants. My talent is making straight A's, but I don't know how I could do that on stage. Like, I just was like, I don't know. So mind you, I was raised Catholic, was Catholic up until freshman year of college when I got saved when I was 17. So that's when I really started, like, applying the word to my life, right? Or knowing that you could do that. So, um, now I'm 23-ish, 23, 24, and I was like, hey God, um, I mean, they said that you could come through, um, especially when people are in a bind. Like, this is like my legit prayer. Um, it's a good one because, because, you know, all through college I just— I knew God is like, God, I need some free food. God, help me through this test. You know what I mean? Like, this is now like, uh, hey God, I don't, I don't want to be laughed at. I don't want to embarrass my family that has already bought tickets, because I was about to— I was like, y'all can have the pageant, I'ma just not do it. But it was 2 weeks before. People were like, we got our tickets, we're here to support you. I was like, oh, oh, all y'all?

I actually have to stay in it.

Yeah, I had like— I can't back out, because if it was just like, I ain't tell nobody, it's like, well, I'm no longer a contestant, God bless them. Oh yeah, so now I'm like, things are on the table. And because I was a— I am now a reformed people pleaser, but back then I was in the height of my people pleasing. So it was like, well, I don't want to make them mad, and I don't want to disappoint the people who bought tickets. So I was like, hey God, real talk, I need help. I don't know what to do. And I need help quick. What's a talent? What do I do good? Am I good at anything? Literally asking these questions. As I'm finishing, I hear Holy Spirit say, do comedy. It wasn't even a full sentence because I feel like, you should do— that's more of a full sentence. It was like, do comedy. I was like, who you talking to? It was so wild. And I was just like, what? And I remember started arguing. I started wrestling. I was like, I can't do that. Because again, when the girl who used to be in the bathroom rehearsing scenes is now in the bedroom going back and forth with Jesus. And was like, that doesn't make any sense! I've never done comedy. Am I even funny? What if they don't laugh at me? Like, so I'm— I'm like having a nervous reaction, and I hear Holy Spirit say, either you're going to learn to trust me or you won't. And then he stopped talking, and I said, whoa, fam, I thought we supposed to have dialogues. Okay, you coming through with Proverbs and then you dip it? That's Ridiculous. Okay. I need us to have a conversaciones. Okay. Una conversación. Like about this thing that's about to bring me so much anxiety. When he said, either you're going to learn to trust me or you won't, and dipped out, he wasn't going back and forth. He's like, I'm living my best life. He said, I'm not going back and forth with you, sis. And when I tell you that voice was gone. And so one thing your listeners should know about me is that because people were so shifty towards me, I could not— I could not hold on to, like, them as consistent. Could not hold on to them as reliable. So when I got saved and they were basically like, the word of God is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. He's the friend that's to get closer than a brother, even if your mother and father forsake you. He was that thing that I was like, so you mean to tell me, like, he for me and not against me? And like, he got a couple of rules or whatnot. And like, if we follow them, we Gucci. So you held on tight. Christianity for me was very— I don't say plug and chug, but it felt very systematic. I understand it. I get it. Because I could understand we friends one day, and because somebody else told you not to be my friend, all of a sudden we not friends because but you didn't ever talk to me, and I didn't actually do anything to you. You just don't want— like, I couldn't understand that. That's too— that's too volatile. The same yesterday, today, and forevermore. I come before you so you can have life and life more abundantly. The blessings of the Lord make thee rich and add no sorrow to them. I know the plans I had. Like, this is what he— so, okay, for me, I held on so tight to those promises. And so at that moment, even though I was deathly afraid and deathly confused, I was like, huh, is this one of those moments that God knows more about me than I know about myself? Huh. Because there's only one way to find out. Like, it was just— it was like, what, what would I be missing out on if I didn't listen to God? And I was too afraid to find that out. Like, I was like, I didn't want to get— like, there's a chapter in the book called Fear is food poisoning, but regret is herpes. And y'all can figure out what you want to figure out about that title, but it is what it is. I'm going to stick with my side.

Oh, that is my fave. I love that so much. Yes.

I can break down what it means to anybody who has herpes. This is not a herpes-shaming chapter at all, but I would say 99.9% of people who have herpes would rather not. The end. And so that's why fear is food poisoning, because it's like, You know, food poisoning sucks, but you throw it up, you excrete it, and it's gone. You know what I mean? You take a little Pedialyte, little Ensure, little Gatorade, and we're back in it. Okay, we're back in it. But regret is the fear that you let take root and you didn't spit up, you didn't throw up, you didn't excrete. So now you can still have a good life. Most people with herpes have a good life. 1 in 3 people have it. But every once in a while you get a flare-up. And it ain't always great when that flare-up comes, but you can still live a very good functional life. So for me, every once in a while, that flare-up for me in the context of what I talk about in the chapter is somebody else is living my dream. Look at her. Every time I see her on TV, I know that was supposed to be me. Dang it. Somebody else wrote a book. I had that idea. Dang, uh, somebody else is on tour with Chris Rock. I love Chris Rock. That was supposed to be— oh, that's, that's regret that I did. I didn't want to experience that. And so for me, in that moment, I am like, I don't even know what this could look like. I also know that I don't want to be a doctor either, so I'm looking for a way out. I'm not thinking this is the way out, but I'm looking for a way out, so I I was like, well, what will it cost me to trust God? And if he said it, just like he told Gideon he was a mighty man of valor, and he was like, who me? Just, just like he told Abraham he would be the father of many nations, so just like he told, uh, Joseph he would, you know, he had a dream. I was like, what if this is me being one of those characters in the Bible? What? And like What if I'm Esther right now, and I need my "if I perish, I perish" moment? I know I don't have no uncle named Mordecai, but what if this is my moment? And so I literally held on to that. I was like, well, he left, so I can't really have this conversation with him. But if he's calling me to trust him in another way— I always, when it came to faith, I always had a "not on my watch" attitude about it. It was like, you know, my pastor in Maryland would always say, if you're the only Jesus that some people will ever see, is God in trouble? And I remember being like, not on my watch. I'm not on my watch. So yeah, that's, that's to answer your very long, very answer to answer your question.

So you said so many great things. I, I want to, uh, ask you though about You said reformed people pleaser, and you talked about your journey being younger, being isolated, and you being bullied. And then you said when the pageant comes, you're like, am I pretty? Then the question comes, am I funny? What do those questions look like now in your life? So I think you have enough life lived at this point to know that God has and continues to custom design your life, surprise you, give you opportunities you didn't see coming. So you have, you have this history of look at what he's done, but you know, they're still the little girl. So what does that look like to deal with that? Yes, we are holding on to Jesus and all that. Does that stuff crop up? I mean, how much therapy has it taken? Uh, when it crops up, what are your tools? Because I can't imagine that the life that you live now, which is so in the public eye. And, you know, whether it's the next part or the next tour or the next book, questions like that that are embedded early, sometimes they have a, they have a way of cropping back up. So, um, and it's hard, you know, show business is hard. So what does that look like now in your life, or how have you learned to deal with it when it cropped back up as you continue to see God do wonderful things in your life?

So what's funny is, um, I go from broke up-and-coming actor to series regular, um, on a show, and then the character I play is the sexy, you know, high high achieving, gainfully employed, luxury brand wearing. And then, then came the attention. Oh, Yvonne, Yvonne Orji, she fine. She— and then came the anger. I was so angry. I was so angry because I think for the longest time I had told myself, well, it's not going to be looks. You know what I mean? Or just like, I have to build myself up with character, with all the other things, because I've been told for so long I was ugly. And so I didn't fuck with— if someone gave me a compliment like, ooh, you cute, it's like, but am I smart? Like, I would just be like— I would just like the, like, factory default setting was, okay, and? Like, am I— like, that's stupid because y'all don't even see me as that. So I focused all my attention on, I'm gonna be intelligent, I'm gonna be, you know, resourceful, I'm gonna be whatever. And then it's just like Women Crush Wednesday. I was like, whoo. And then I was so mad. I was angry because it was like, so I get some straight weaves and a little bit of makeup, and now y'all see me? Uh. I've been me. You know, like, I was so angry. Like, you know, the Bible does say, man looks on the outward.

It does. I mean, it kind of told you in advance. It did. It did.

I, I'm— all the verses I looked at, that was the one that was like, I didn't think applied to me in that, in that context. But it was like, y'all, again, it reinforced the shiftiness of people. I have been at the comedy clubs. I have been, you know, my character, my integrity, and the way that I operate in excellence has been Continuous. But all of a sudden, my name is on some credits. You see me in these outfits that I had to give back to production. This weave that comes right on off. And all of a sudden, I'm a woman crush. Like, where were y'all when I was getting bullied? Where were y'all when no one was telling me I was pretty? So there was a lot of— It was a lot of— it wasn't even resentment. It was really anger. It was probably both resentment and anger. Who were you angry at? You're angry at something you can't control. You're angry at perception. You're angry at societal norms and societal perception of beauty, of fame. Because I was never like, I'm going to be— I want to be famous. No, I was like, I want to be successful. I just want to fucking eat because it has been lean days. I just want to be a working actor. Like, my goal was like working actor. I knew God was going to supersize it in whatever way he was going to do it. I was mad at the mindset. You know what it was? I was mad at the mindset. And it's just like, you can't control the mindset though. The mindset is what it is. But I was so mad at the mindset because it wasn't nuanced. It didn't take into account, like, like everything about me, like even the mindset, right, of waiting. Like, you know, people know that I'm waiting. They know. But the current mindset is like, "Ew, don't nobody want that. Like, why she proud of that?" And it's just like, "Really? Really?" And the mindset could also— the other mindset could be like, "You the only one that's going to ever be able to run up in this." Like, that should be a prize. OK, that should be for you. Not that I'm saying that, like, I'm a trophy. But for somebody, somebody can look at that as, like, that's what I desire. That's what I want. But the mindset is ill. And it's like, really? Because I don't even have the mindset like that for y'all. You know what I mean? I don't have the mindset for— like, my thing is, like, different strokes for different folks. Like, if you are fully happy and engaging in how you want, then Turn up. But the fact that the general overall mindset is like— when before, there used to be a mindset of like, you don't even get married if that's not even how you rocking it.

You know what I mean?

So it's like, the mindset shifts. And I think, for me, that mindset shift swung so far that I was just like, so one day, I could be the same exact person, but because I got some makeup on and a hair that don't even belong to me, now the mindset is that I'm pretty.

It's almost like the mindset has created experiences for you that you can't control. It's like if people's mindset is like ugly, or mindset is not talented, or mindset is we don't want to be your friend, it controls your experience. But if people's mindset is straight hair, weave, good clothes, somewhat of a success— I can see your name— then all of a sudden it shifts. But even that, even the good, I can't control. I get that. I get that.

I can't control that. I be mad, right? So fast forward, we are probably in 2020, either 2020 or early 2021. I had a therapist. I want to say late 2020 or early 2021. So we're in the thick of the pandemic, and the therapist was— she asked me, "Can you look at yourself in the mirror and say you're beautiful?" And I was like, "Sometimes." She was like, "Well, here in lies the problem." And it's like, "Well, when is it sometimes?" I'm like, "I mean, when I've been glam." So basically when a hair and makeup crew has come, beat my face to the gods, and put on some hair that don't belong to me, or cut my hair, you know, whatever, because at that time I think I had my short hair, my natural hair, um, and I look like only you can look when you have a glam team.

You have a whole team. That's correct.

A team, T-E-A-M, and there is no I in that team. Then and only then can I be like Oh, I can see it. And so I then began the work of like, okay, you don't fully love yourself and you are looking for someone to love and validate you in a way that you never were. But that's putting so much power in somebody else. And so for me, my work was I want to get to a place where I have no makeup on., and I can look at myself and be like, she a bad chick. And so it's so funny. I was recently in a relationship, and he would hear me every so often just in the mirror be like, oh, you cute. I see you. You fine. And he was like, what are you doing? He was like, you say that to yourself often? And I said, yeah, because there was a time when I couldn't. And so I have to continuously remind myself, like, she bad. And not in a way that I'm trying to get myself to believe it, but in a way that, like, I am so proud that I can get to this moment where it's not put on. It is that, like, oh, shit, we ain't even got makeup on. Oh, look at your skin. Skin it. Ah, look at your teeth. White. Ooh, you are your gang, gang, gang, gang. Like, I really had to get to a place where if don't nobody tell me I'm beautiful today, First of all, they lying. And, and if don't nobody tell me, I'm— I already told myself my cup is so full you can't even get in.

What I hear you saying— well, this is what I'm receiving out of what you're saying, let me put it like that— you can't control anybody else's mindset, but you can control your own. And once you realize that and you work on having the right mindset then everybody else's mindset doesn't matter. It's amazing.

Yeah, I mean, I think we try to be like, everybody doesn't matter. It's like, it affects— it can affect you. But absolutely, you know, when we say it don't matter, it's like, I think there's no nuance. It's like sometimes some people's mindsets can hurt, some people's mindsets can, um, because I think sometimes we get so into the like, it don't matter, I don't need nobody. Oh, it's like, okay, there's a little childhood wounding in there. Because you can— two things could be true. You can be like, you know what, it hurts and it affect me a little bit, but I have more of my mindset there that even though this came in, mine supersedes it. So it doesn't affect me as much as it used to. It doesn't mean that it still doesn't, like, have a ping, but this is how I know I've grown in that it doesn't cripple me like maybe it once did.

You can listen. You don't have to be defined by it. I think I think that, you know, the sweet spot obviously that you're in, because you have a book where you talk about, you know, Bamboozled by Jesus, to me is the— is your way of saying— I mean, the subtitle, How God Tricked Me Into the Life of My Dreams. But it— he kind of has to do that because we would never choose what he— we would never— we would never think of it. And if we thought of it, we wouldn't choose it. We wouldn't— we wouldn't go, that's the way I want to go.

And the minute it got a little bit hard, we'd be like, he tripping. This is why I don't This is why we don't come to church no more. Because here's the whole, like, the seminal Bible character that I focus on is Joseph, right? It's like God gave Joseph a dream. And we can go Joseph and Gideon. Let me just walk this out. We got time a little bit. We can go Joseph and Gideon. Because it's like Joseph had a dream. He got so excited. He told his brothers. His brothers was like, who you think you is? And then they were like, we're going to kill you. So he gets saved, that's fine. But then he's now a slave. That's not sexy. Nobody— It's whack. And then he's like, all right, you know what? Let me just be a person of integrity. Let me just— let me just out here. Maybe if I do good work, then people will see that I'm a good human being, and maybe they'll release me. Nope. Potiphar's wife is like, no, what I see is them abs, Joseph. What I see is that backside. It's giving Raphael the doll. Hey, hey, the upper room, let's lift it up. And he's like, "I still want to be a person of integrity." And that integrity got him in jail. So now he's in jail. Now he's like, "Well, should I just have slept with her? Because what are we doing? Because now I'm in jail. At least I had a job as a slave, but a job in a castle. Now I'm in jail. Okay, cool, cool, cool. I got favor. That's fine. Oh, let me interpret these dreams. Maybe they'll remember me. Nope. They done forgot about me too. I'm back in here." All of that stuff is just like, how did I have a dream that I shared with my family and now I'm in jail? But then you get to the second in command, vice president of Egypt. But that was such a long time. Then you get to Gideon. Gideon is minding his business. Gideon is like, listen, let me just die poor. I'm good. Like, I ain't got nothing. I ain't going to be nothing. I'm just like my no good daddy. Like, whatever. Like, whatever the story is. The story was Gideon was like, "I'm the quintessential that." And then one day an angel's like, "What up, mighty man of valor?" "Who you talking to? Who you talking? What? You better— Hey, that's the other village. That man don't live here. Love don't live here anymore. That's not me." And it's like, "Nah, Gideon, you the one that's going to save everybody." Gideon's like, "Hold on. Let me put Jesus— Let me put God through some tests a little bit. Can you make this dry? Can you make this—" What? Okay, 10. It's really me. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Then Gideon's like, I'm gonna go fight the war. All right, God, you got it. Cool, cool, cool. Wait, what you mean? I gotta get rid of some of my soldiers? Well, I need them. I do. All of them. Okay, no, you— 300? How we gonna win this war? Cool, cool, cool, cool. All right, well, good thing we got weapons. I'm sorry, what? Blow the trumpets? Jesus, you play too much. It's like every step of the way, it's like every way you thought this was going to happen, God was like, no. But if he would have been like, hey, Gideon, you're a mighty man of valor. You're going to go, and you're going to defeat your enemies by blowing the trumpet, he'd be like, you got me twisted. Hey, fam. Hey, stab yourself. Like, that's what I would have told the angel. Because there's no version where that made any sense. It already don't make sense that you calling me a warrior, and now you telling me that as a warrior, I'm not going to fight? I had to play instruments. I don't even like music. I don't even like music. So that's what bamboozled me. Because to your point, we would never go. If God was like— if I did not do good at that pageant, we would not be here. God was like, I got to be strategic with this one. I got to make sure she gets all the laughter top heavy, up front. OK? She needs to get hooked. OK? Like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I was tilapia. Okay? I won't even say anything. I was coming in hot. And I heard the laughter, and I was like, oh my God. They're laughing at me? Maybe I could be good at this. And then I did what Gideon did. Hey, God, okay. I'll know if that wasn't a fluke if you let me perform in a place that's not just full of Nigerians and I get the same laughter. Okay. Then I enter a pageant. Not a pageant, a comedy festival, like a competition. DC's Funniest College Student. So now it's all white students at GW. They ain't never been to Nigeria. Some Black people from other universities, from Howard and whatever. I end up winning for GW. Then I'm like, "Oh my God." So part of winning is that you compete with all the other students who won at the DC Improv. So it's me and 15 other guys. And I didn't win the competition. But afterwards, this Asian guy and this Indian guy came up to me and they said, oh my God, you were so funny. You remind us of our mothers, just with a different accent. That was it. Like, that was when I was like, I think I got something. And I didn't get my first rejection or bombing until years later, like maybe 2, maybe 2 years after I started. But I was already in, like, I like— and I, when I tell you that rejection, I said, God, I'm out. You got the wrong person. I'm tired of this. This is why I didn't want to start this in the first place. Didn't nobody tell you to give me this stupid dream? Like, my girl, baby, I, I was packing my bags. Yeah, I said, you could have this, and I don't even know if I want to be a Christian no more. Like, I just, I was done. I was gone. And God like one bad night does not dictate your destiny.

That's good. You know that he has, uh, custom designed your life, in your words, to be magnificent. Magnificent. Um, so now you're in your 30s, right?

You're still in your 30s? Yeah, there's, there's still holding on to that 3, you know. It's gonna change later this year. This is change, but I'm right now I'm holding on. Okay, so God's changing. 3.

So since you can look back and say, look at the things that he pulled from to give me something I did not plan for, right? Um, I'm curious, even though we know he can do more than what we think, what are you thinking? You're already in a bunch of lanes doing a bunch of different things. What do you hope the next 10 years brings? Like, when you whisper— maybe you don't want to share all your whispers, but when you whisper some, like, what are you like? I don't know how to get there. I don't know. There's a gap. I don't know how to fill it. There's a bridge. There's a, there's a, you know, a chasm. I don't know how to bridge over it. Is— what do you want that's more that you're like, I don't know how you're gonna do it, but I know you know how to custom make stuff.

Yeah, I feel like I'm still on the ground level of so many things, and I think the next thing that God is gonna blow my mind in is my love story. Like, I just— he has to. Like, he has to. Yeah, like, come on, every man be a liar. Yeah, like, he has to. Like, he He— I would renegotiate all the contracts I've made with him if he don't— like, he has to. And it's one of those things where I've seen him be so faithful and so forthcoming and so mind-blowing in my career. And I'm like, I don't think that that's where he wants to stop. So that's the— I can't see— like, my dream for that is so big and so magnanimous.. And then I'm like, he said he will do the exceedingly abundantly above all, so he has to. Um, and then it relates to like my life. I got to a point where God told me like— oh, not even God told me, like I realized like, dang, I gotta dream new dreams. And I was kind of shook because I thought the dreams that I had would take so long to accomplish. And girl, I did all of that Within the first 5 seasons. And I was like, dang. Okay. I got to dream new dreams.

Talk about a dream. Wait a minute.

I got to manufacture new dreams. Girl, when I tell you I was at a loss. I was like, uh, uh, mwah. Because I was like, this is going to be big. This is going to be lofty. A comedy to— oh, okay. I already did that twice. Okay. A book. Oh, okay. We already sold that. Okay. Okay, beating Oprah. Okay, we already did that. Um, she be the dope boat. So now I'm just like, what else you got for me? Like, I almost tapped out of my bigness. I tapped in. I was like, well, God, feed me some new dreams. What you got? So there's a part of me that's kind of waiting for him to just drop some bigness in me because I'm like, I low-key feel real basic right now, Jesus.

Well, the thing is, you know, he does it. He drops things, as you told us near the beginning, when we can't even figure out what to dream. He gives us dreams that we didn't know we would ever even have.

Because if he, if he told us, they would scare us too much to even— like, we couldn't believe them. Like, I couldn't— I wouldn't believe my life, it was— if it wasn't mine, you know what I mean? Like, I'm an immigrant. I'm an immigrant from Nigeria, fam. Like, when I started this, there wasn't an Uzo Aduba that was popping. Like, there wasn't— we might have had Chiwetel Ejiofor and David Oyelowo in the African space, but Afrobeats wasn't even a thing y'all was going to concerts. So I'm the Nigerian that's like, yeah, God gave me a dream, and I want to, you know, and I'm at I'm hosting weddings and people look at me like, this one is a clown. No, no, who will marry her? She's a jester. Hey, I feel bad for her mother. And I'm like, wait, what? And so it's like my stock, you know, is diminishing in, again, in some perspectives because I chose to believe God and dream a dream. And then now I'm getting, oh my gosh, Thank you for doing what you do, you're doing. We, we played your special for our parents and, you know, they were, they, they laughed. And now every time they see you, they're like, you should be like that, Yvonne. Yeah, this thing you want to do. So now it's like, oh, there's a blueprint. And that's all they needed to see, uh, especially African parents. It's like, they, one person does it, it's like, then why are you not doing this thing that this person? And it's like, Well, you didn't even allow me to go. Like, what? So now it's like I'm, I'm the, I'm the one that, that parents talk about. Like, I was mad when they were talking about somebody else's daughter who was a doctor. So I apologize to all y'all, uh, kids of African descent. I'm so sorry that I was successful because I, I, I, it's not gonna end well for you in your house with the comparisons. I'm sorry for being now the comparison. I apologize, but I just had to to do what the Lord told me. So, Chrystal, when you ask about dreams, I believe God will take my voice and my joy to straastronomical levels, like, "Nations you know not of will summon you. Nations you do not know of will call you by name." That's what has been deposited in me. And it is through the joy and the love of people and of God. Because I'm even— I think one of the greatest gifts that has come from this love offering of being bamboozled by Jesus and writing this book is when I get the DMs by people who are like, I'm Muslim, but your book was so inspiring. And I was like, I love that because it's not a conversion story. It's not a conversion tale. I'm not asking anyone who reads it to rededicate their life. I'm saying that I'm just a young Black girl from Potako, Nigeria, who came here and went against her parents' wishes because she thought God's wishes were bigger and better. And now we're here. I just did. A talk show where a white woman came, was like, I don't even identify as Christian, but I really— your book inspired me to do something. And I was like, I appreciate that. Um, and it is the love of God. That's what we're supposed to share. Um, and it— and it could sound lofty or like, oh, what do you mean you hear from God? That's crazy. It's like, I just try to make it accessible, attainable. Understandable. What anybody else does with it is what they do with it. But, you know, I think the desire to continue, continue to please him— if ever I was going to continue to be a people pleaser, it would be pleasing that one person. He— Holy Spirit, Jesus, God. And through that obedience The world has not even began to see what God is going to do with, for, and through me. And I honestly can't even fathom it.

It's so good. My mom would call someone like you a trailblazer. I would say, why does it have to be this way? And why can I not follow anyone else's blueprint? And why does it seem so hard? Why is it taking so long? Why do I feel so alone in the journey that I have? And she would say, oh, it's just because God knew he could trust you to be a trailblazer. So I know that's what she'd say to you.

I received— your mom was so sweet. God knows that her light and her love and her joy lives on in all of her kids. Um, but I would also say to that, I used to get so mad when people would be like, you're ahead of your time. And it sounds like such a compliment. It's the loneliest place to be.

It's a very lonely place to be.

Yes, it is. A trailblazer, ahead of your time, they are just really good words for telling— for telling people no one is going to understand you. They're going to call you crazy. They're not going to help you. You're going to be on the island by yourself. I know you just heard this from your mom, and I'm just like—

No, it's true. Well, because after she told me that, I said, what that means is the people that go first are the ones that get ripped to shreds by all the thorns and the bushes and the trees. I am going first and I'm bleeding out here. I didn't tell you that part, but that's— that was what happened after that conversation.

Well, see, I, I, I felt the spirit of that part. And so I was like, hey guys, for everybody who's like, I will be a trailblazer, let me tell you the response.

Right, talk about ho ho, you don't want to— hold on, don't, don't go too quick.

It's great, but the job is good. And you know what, it's so funny that you would say that, because when I first got in, like when I— when Jesus was first like giving me the visions and helping me understand like what the responsibility was, he showed me Joshua and he was like 3 days from now you're gonna go into the land the Lord your God has given you. He was like, go and make sure, um, your brothers and sisters have taken control of the land, and then you yourself can take— and it was like, okay, I know my pastor said we were a gateway ministry, and it sounded great, right? It sounded great, you know, 10 years ago when I got this word, but I'm like Okay, my job is to get people to their blessing. Okay, all right. And then, and then, you know, so it's just like if you're a parent, you eat last. But I'm hungry, I'm hungry. And I, and I remember just feeling this way a couple days ago because I'm such like, I, I know I'm a giver, I know I'm a conduit, I know I'm a connector, all of the things. I know. And you tell me you have an idea, I'm like, fantastic. Let me figure out who I know that can do this and da da da da da. I'm already connecting you with somebody. I'm already, like, sending the email. I can't remember what I was doing, but I definitely— somebody needed something. And I was like, hey, my friend is doing this thing and blah blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm talking to these people who I'm like, you might be the answer. And they're like, you know what? We should actually connect her with so-and-so because it sounds like da-da-da. And she texts me. She's like, oh my God, girl, thank you so much. I have a meeting set with blah, blah, blah. And I was like, all right, great. I hope it works out. And the minute it happened, there was a moment where I was like, God, where are my helpers? Who going to help me? Because I'm like, I need an assistant. I need a chief of staff. I need a production partner. I need— I'm all the things. I'm like, I need the people who can help me. Me move my vision to another level. And we still, you know, da da da da da. And, and, and I know these are people who want to be me. I need the people who really see me and love me and want to support the vision that you've given to, like, the servant's heart. And God just said Remember Joshua? And I was like, "All right, but how long it going to take them to possess the land? When they going to be happy in the land?" But it was a very real emotion. It was like, "Yo, bro, even Abraham had Aaron though. Seriously, stop fucking me. Stop playing." Sometimes you just have to know that that's your role. So the trailblazers, the ahead of your time— I know, it's amazing.

And it has— but, but CeCe Winans, I talked to her recently, she said, and I'm paraphrasing because Hoda had asked her, you know, all these other opportunities that have come, why, why haven't you done— there's so many things you could have done. And she said, because if I do anything different than what God is asking me to do, how he's asking me to do it, I'm living beneath beneath my purpose. So you could do things different ways and other people would have gone first, but you would have not maximized or been living at the level that you were designed to live at. So it'll all make sense one day. But I mean, just know you're not as alone as you think. There are just other people walking on their own trails, but every now and then, you know, again, you just holler out, hello, anybody else out there?

And somebody will echo you back. It is that thing of God knows he can get more to you if he knows he can get more through you. Because the reality is, like, with everything he has gotten to me, that's how I'm able to be a conduit, you know what I mean? Like, that's right. Like, because if he— there's a version where he could have gotten some to somebody else, but they're not as generous or as giving or as, you know, connecting as I am. And so it's like, it would have just stopped with them. And he's like, well, that doesn't help. That doesn't help this train that I want people to be on. So it's like, who can I trust? Who can I trust that will come back to me? OK, her. Her. And that's why the book I talk about, I was like, I'm not that special. Y'all be like, oh, it's because you're so— I'm not that— I know a lot of celebrities. They are not as happy as I am. And they have more. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not that special. I'm not that whimsical. I'm not that— I really— it's very simple. I just kept saying yes, kept being obedient, kept being someone he can trust. It really is that simple. People like, how are you able to be in Hollywood? And it's because I— the one— I never asked to be here, right? So God knew that Hollywood— he could put me in Hollywood without Hollywood getting in me, you know what I'm saying? Like, I could be in it, but I don't have to be of it. So it's like, who can God who can God trust that even if they are excited by the, the things that they get through the life, he knows they will always come back and sit at his feet and be like, all right God, what's up? If you are looking for the life of your dream, get— of getting tricked into the life of your dreams and being bamboozled by Jesus, how you do that is being somebody that God can trust. It's really that simple.

So good. This is so good. Funny, serious, and good. Thanks for joining me, girl.