How VR and Neuroscience Can Create the Teams of Tomorrow—TODAY

Hello, hello everyone. Welcome to another LinkedIn Live, and I'm very excited to be here today. And well, today we're going to be talking about how VR and neuroscience can create the teams of tomorrow today. It's a play on words if you haven't noticed. You know who I am. I'm Claire Hayek, actually the founder and CEO of MSP Team Building. I'm also a certified neuroscience coach. And today I'm joined by Thomas de Bruyne, a leadership and emerging tech expert. Hi, Thomas.

Hi, Claire. It's such a pleasure to be here with you and everyone else.

Very excited to have you with us here today. We're gonna both basically, whoever's listening today with us today, we're gonna be talking about how we can use new tech and emerging tech in order to transform our team dynamics, improve our leadership skills, and be innovative. Basically, there's a lot going on. There's a lot of new things. We talked about AI. We had a webinar last week for some of you that actually joined us. The technology is booming. And I think— and I actually don't think. I strongly believe that we need to, as leaders, embrace the technology responsibly in order to use it to improve team dynamics, improve performance, improve our quality of life, reduce stress, etc. There's so many good things that could come out of this. So, I'm excited to talk innovation because that's like my middle name. But before we dive right in, I really want to know basically where you're joining us from. You already know that if you've joined our LinkedIn Lives and you've seen us live, that we are very interactive and we're going to be throwing some questions your way. So please do engage, focus, write down the gold nuggets we'll be sharing. There will be some, you know, I guarantee you there'll be some, right, Thomas?

Oh yes.

Exactly. So yeah. So please do share where you're coming from, where you're joining us from today. What's happening? What are you excited about? And we're just gonna basically dive right in and talk about basically the content of the conference. So, well, let's talk about neuroscience and team resilience, right? I mean, we basically know that neuroscience is related to performance, is related to transformational leadership. Actually, neuroscience Science is the base of everything as far as I'm concerned when it comes to our behaviors, right? There's a lot of tools out there such as biosensing, flow state technology that actually help leaders monitor team members' emotional and cognitive states in real time. These technologies provide actionable insights into how stress and collaboration actually impact performance. So, Which literally just affects how resilient we can be and how we could be, our team environment could be more solid and flexible and resilient. Really, the adjective or the word is resilience nowadays. And what's happening with all the curveballs thrown at us, the deadlines, etc. I mean, the new tech. Resilience is really important. in the day-to-day world when it comes to the workplace right now. So, Thomas, in your experience, how have you seen technologies like biosensors actually impact leadership and team dynamics? And if you can share some examples about, you know, how this could really improve team performance.

Yeah. So I see a number of areas actually where biosensors just in general bring awareness into someone's perspective around the state their bodies are in and what they also can do to influence that emotional regulation, stress management, training. So there is a lot of different things you can do going from screening for the right candidates or pre-screening yourself if you're looking for a career switch to see which roles or which industries would be better suited to how your body is built and to your strengths and, and also the areas of development.

Mm-hmm.

Within you, how can you pair that up so you can be your best self and choose and even model your environment around yourself?

Wow, that's amazing. And so do you have like some examples, real-time examples, real-life examples where this was applied and how it actually made a difference or improved?

One very recent example I had was with a senior executive at a global HR firm. And she went through an assessment with me and realized that her strengths that showed up in the psychophysiological reports we conducted with her were not really valued at her company because her company, for the leadership position that she was in, required a different set of capabilities than the ones that she was really good at.

Right.

So she just considered like, yeah, this is probably why I'm struggling in my job. And I'm not sure if I actually want to stay here. So this is already someone in a high-performing job, way past when you could have screened someone as a leader in a significant job for this company. But by doing this, she had this awareness that I might just not be at my right place. And that's probably why I'm not enjoying this as much. And culture-wise, there were a lot of things that came up. So. That was the objective determination of what was happening. Then there is also the subjective experience, which is not directly measured, but the biofeedback is a really valid way of uprooting those kind of conversations and giving people the confidence that they're not just hallucinating, that this is— there is a real root to the subjective experience someone has at work and within their teams.

Right. You know, we talk about this in neuroscience quite a bit, that If you're not aware of what's happening in your body, in your mind, in your thoughts, in everything when it comes to who you are and your behavior, if you're not aware, you're not able to transform. You're not able to tackle it on or just improve it. And we often, what we see unfortunately is that people are stuck in a pattern. And I mean, we all have things to improve on. Let's be just clear on that. That's what I'm saying. We all have improvements. We're not perfect. We all can strive to be our best self in certain situations. We are wired a certain way, but it doesn't mean we cannot, you know, we don't have neuroplasticity. We're not able to wire new patterns, new neurons firing and wiring together to change our behavior. And the first step I find is what you just said, Tomas, is the fact that Well, we know what we need to change. Now we're aware of what we'd like to improve. And by knowing that, like, oh, I'm not crazy here. There's nothing wrong with me. It's just the way I'm wired. So when you bring it back to that, just amazing, right? Like when you think about it that way, I know it sounds very scientific and non-emotional, but maybe that's what we need. You know, I think we need the emotional side of things and understanding what's happening in our mind and body. However, also to understand it scientifically. Makes it just more doable. And I don't know, makes it more real. Like, okay, it's the brain. It's— this is how it's, it's, you know, it's wired at this point, but doesn't mean we cannot change it. Right.

So, and if I could add something to that, Claire, it's basically just like the subjective experience is very real and those emotions are very real. If we have objective biodata scientifically validated, to substantiate those subjective experiences just makes people much more confident. And especially when you have enough trust within your team to do these measurements together and to have an insight into each other's profiles.

Yeah.

It just fosters so much more understanding, deep respect, and instantly you have people collaborating in how they can help each other be successful, accepting that you are who you are and I am who I am and how that comes together, that with this objective data underpinning the subjective experience of the dynamic, that is where people take it much more seriously at face value when you see what your brain, what your heart, what your muscles are doing or have been doing 5 minutes ago.

Right. Yeah, this is very interesting. Thanks, Thomas. So a question for you, those who've joined us. Please do put it in the chat, yes or no. Have you ever used neuroscience-backed tools such as biometric sensors to monitor your team dynamics? We want to hear from you. We want to get your insights. And I just want to quickly mention here that we have Connor from our team that might be sharing some info with you in the chat as well. If you're wondering who Connor is, he's part of MSP team building team. And hey, Connor. So a late shout out to Connor, but you know, Better late than never, right? So moving on to— but again, put it in the chat. Please tell us yes or no. Have you used any of these tools? And I'm just going to go to the chat quickly here. We got a couple of answers, but we'll get back to the chat in a second. So let's move on here. Let's talk about VR. Do you feel like talking about VR, Thomas? I don't think we have a choice. I don't think we cannot ignore— we can't ignore VR.

Right.

There's so much going on with VR tools that are actually being used in team building. We have actually at MSB Team Building, we do have a VR-based team building and it's amazing. We've partnered up with a tech company that developed the whole team building experience where you're really challenged as a team and you're really living the experience and how you react. And anyways, I don't want to go into details. But do reach out if you want to know more. And it's extremely relevant, great for improving behavior, great at improving communication, collaboration, because people really are living the experience and the challenge that is much bigger than maybe what we could live in reality. It's an experience where we travel somewhere remote and we're faced with a challenge. I'm not going to tell you more, but it's pretty urgent. And so it puts the team to the test and how they react and how they work together. And we've seen amazing results with this technology. But what I'm interested in asking you, Thomas, is if you've used these VR technologies to improve team-building experiences or just to improve collaboration and communication. And if you have, how they were used.

Absolutely. So we had a similar VR experience for team building and for actually assessments for team dynamics in Deloitte. I spent 6 years working at Deloitte, both in Belgium and Czech Republic. And one of my colleagues built a space shuttle experience in the ISS, the International Space Station, where teams had to come together and basically save each other's lives and save the space station. So high stress. High decision power, high amount of team dynamics. And those outcomes were used as a measure for team dynamics and stress responses and leadership behavior for recruiting, actually. And another example we used was for having vision sessions with leadership teams, because there is a lot of different emerging technologies.

Mm-hmm.

And the most important factor is people's understanding and experience with it. So without having to experience them directly, using VR to bring them to life and to get a whole leadership team aligned on those emerging trends and to engage with it without having to go to a specialized lab, you can easily do that from the comfort of your own home or board meeting. So there's a couple of ways that we used VR. We also did a soft skills training EMEA-wide for Deloitte. to coach managers dealing with difficult conversations. So there was a whole branch scenario with an overworked employee sitting in front of you as an avatar in VR. So the emotional reactions in VR are just like you mentioned, Claire, so much more real and vivid because your brain believes this is really happening, even if you're sitting in this chair.

Right.

So yeah, we use, or we use it, I use it for many different purposes. But the options are quite endless if you're willing to expand your mind just a little bit.

Yes. And, you know, I don't think we, you know, we always have a choice. But in my opinion, I don't think we have a choice at this point in leadership when it comes to even HR professionals, leadership assessment, etc. This is where we're at. I wouldn't say it's tomorrow. I think it's today or probably just like, it's like AI, you know, people that haven't jumped on AI, You're already late. You need to start. And I think with these, leveraging these tools, especially VR, it's just amazing. It's so efficient in really living the experience and embedding the whole, absorbing the whole thing. And again, improving. Now being aware of how we're reacting and how we can improve it. So let's share the next question here in the chat. Would you consider using VR as a tool for leadership or for team-building exercises in your organization? Yes or no? Please do share it in the chat. And while you're doing that, we're doing great on time. This is very good. We're usually running behind and I'm trying to just keep up, right? So, or really move it along. But it's always very interesting. And I'm really blessed to have amazing guests on my LinkedIn Lives talking about interesting, cutting-edge technology and innovation. So again, thanks Thomas for joining me. I'm really, really excited for you to be here today live. So let's talk about how we can integrate these tools. And, you know, this could be a bit overwhelming. You know, we're talking about tech, we're talking about VR, we're talking about sensors, we're throwing all these words your way. I am far from being an expert of this, but I surround myself with experts like Thomas and so many the others that know what they're doing, that they've been working with these tools. And I think the more we learn about them and adapt them, the more comfortable we feel. I actually spoke to another partner of ours at MSP Teambuilding that what they're doing is actually using AI during team meetings, remote meetings on Teams. And the AI basically analyzes the facial expressions. And I'm sure, Thomas, you know what I'm talking about. Where it's not judging. It's just AI, right? So, it's just measuring. It's factual. And to see from there, they can post-meeting, they can draw a report, an analysis, a detailed analysis on the level of engagement during the meeting, the level of maybe stress, good vibes, maybe openness, trust, safety, or the opposite anxiety. Et cetera. And it's all actually written on our face. So, and the reason for that, using tools like this really help leaders and professionals and organizations understand what's going on during these meetings. Because the bottom line is the communication is key. And if we're wasting our time in meetings and we're not being efficient and we're not communicating, we're not collaborating and everybody's stressed and we're at a low vibrational level, then we're not being a productive team. And we can't be surprised when there's burnout and when there's, you know, the projects are not being delivered. We're not vibing. We're not clicking, right? So, using these tools help managers and leaders in organizations understand. Again, awareness so we can improve, right? It's all about data. And I'm curious, Thomas, I really want to know if you know or you can share some tools that are out there. I mean, I shared one. I'm sure you know other ones, obviously. So, that could really help leaders at different levels, maybe for improve their skills or anything, any tools that really are innovative now and that we should really know about?

Yes. So to start off with, there is a lot of data, like you mentioned, Claire, you can get from cameras and microphones on a meeting. A lot of human interaction happens when there are no cameras or microphones involved, I hope. And then there is a couple of technologies that go beyond just monitoring Zoom calls, to simplify it. I saw an application that Delos, the big corporate office provider and real estate company, used. They basically equipped meeting rooms with lots of sensors to measure the room temperature, as in the psychophysiological temperature.

Environment.

Yeah. Okay. So, what you get through the cameras they got from the meeting rooms, and then you can even work with elements in the room which turn red if stress levels go up. Or if someone feels excluded. So there is a lot of granularity. I never saw this scale. I saw it as a proof of concept 5 years ago.

Okay.

And there's another one where surprisingly you can get a lot of input from sensors which are exterior to your bodies, like the cameras, microphones, room sensors. The real interesting information for me happens when you apply it to your own body. And that's what we at Deloitte wanted to introduce to a senior Central European leadership training program.

Right.

So we were looking at biosensors and looking at technologies that could actually map the impact of stress and cognitive performance. And I was very surprised not to find anything more than a heart sensor or a chest strap that basically measures your heart rate and heart rate variability. So that's what I used, and you can get a lot of data out of this, but it fails to capture your brain states and your muscles, and there is a lot of information that gets lost. Okay. So very recently I discovered a tool which has sensors for both EEG, so that's the frontal lobe with attention and executive functions.

Can you define its short form?

Yeah, it's Encephalogram, electric encephalogram for measuring activity in your brain. Exactly.

Okay. Okay.

So if you apply this and combine it with the data of your heart, where a lot of information comes from, and you combine it with information from, from your muscles and the micro, micro changes.

Okay.

Combine that And this technology only came into my radar, being aware of a lot of evolutions in this field, just a couple of months ago. So this for me is a very recent evolution. It's quite a revolutionary breakthrough in my perspective that this is stuff that was possible in clinical labs, but not in a mobile device until recently.

So I know you shared with me photos about this because you did mention this to me and you wanted to talk about it as a tool, a really innovative, revolutionary tool. And I'm just going to share what you sent me here. And I really would like you to walk us through it because I really want to know more. So here's the headset with the sensor. Just quickly run us through it if you can. And I'll just scroll through these images as we go.

Yeah, sure. And I can even make it more real by— Taking the one I have right here. So this is the exact same one. You've got sensors here on the inside which measure your prefrontal cortex. So it's your attention and your focus, some cognitive parameters. Then you've got heart, and there's another sensor right here. So this is medical-grade heart quality.

Okay.

And all of this comes into this little black box which captures the data, sends it to the computer, And the software on the PC then processes it and with the algorithm combines it into a report with validated parameters. So it's combined with a VR environment because it's basically a clinically sound environment. There's no other influences. There's also noise cancellation headphones.

Okay.

So it's a very controlled experiment or it's a very controlled dose of whatever we provide you with.

Right.

That we know exactly what is happening, what we are measuring, so that the outcomes are very predictable.

Okay. So we got this headset that we see here. There's the biosensors. The VR environment is what we're, you know, there's certain things that we see. Obviously, we're in a VR environment and challenges, not challenges, but maybe certain things that would stimulate certain reactions in the body. And this piece, the biodata collection where this points to, is the piece that is actually Recording the data, literally brainwaves and other stuff. I'm not going to say wrong things here. I'm just going to move on to the next picture and I'll let you walk us through it. So, this is, I believe, I guess this is how it works. You wear this. This is what it looks like. You wear this thing and the person is a coach or somebody assessing or running the actual test.

Exactly. So that would be me or anyone else qualified to operate this equipment and to also interpret the results which come after certain tests, right? And then the other person is going through a series of tests or breathing exercises. There is a couple of products, if you will, within the technology.

Okay.

So it can be used as early detection of burnout, can be used for detecting indications of ADHD, ADD, which might interfere with cognitive performance. or attention for certain tasks, or you can learn how to self-regulate certain emotions or teach yourself breathing techniques, find which breathing frequency resonates with your heart.

Okay.

You can calm down the quickest. So there's a lot of applications, but this is basically the gist of it.

Okay. So just show us here how it works. If you can just quickly run us through it, please.

Yes. So this is a static view of what the real-time data looks like. Tomorrow, actually, in your webinar, Claire, I will share a live demonstration of myself going through exactly this. So in the top left, you can see my brainwaves coming in. So this is brainwaves from 6 different channels. Then you can also see what your current pulse is because there is also a cardiogram. Your heart rate is being measured. You can also see what is your level of concentration and what is your stress level.

Mm-hmm.

And in the right bottom corner, you can see the actual VR experience. that someone in the headset is looking at. So on the screen, there are tests, and you're basically in a very calm, controlled environment doing psychometric, psychologically validated tests to determine certain parameters in cognitive or emotional performance or stress responses.

Okay. And then so all of this is recorded, and this is basically the data that we get out of these tests. Um, right.

Yes. Yeah. So you can look at certain innate parameters, basically the way how your nervous system is wired. You can also look at how your autonomic nervous system reacts to stress stimuli.

Okay.

You can also see, it can even be used to see, is your heart regulation effective? It's near medical quality.

Wow.

So there's a lot of things you can do with it. It's being applied at research, it's being applied for early burnout detection in corporate environments. It can be used for armies, police, first responders, psychotherapy, elderly homes, rehabilitation. So, I mean, my job is to get clear on where we want to enter the market with first, because this technology just came out of the innovation garage.

Wow.

There's lots of potential. Now we want to filter down where is the low-hanging fruit and where can we actually achieve the biggest impact with this. And corporate is a very obvious one because stress is so important for team dynamics and performance. And stress is quite high according to our data and many other surveys that have been published in the most recent years. So if we have a tool to map stress on an organizational level, right, on a personal level, that gives you a lot of handles in how to deal with it more consciously.

So, so So this tool basically, for example, I like giving like real-time examples. So I want to recruit a CEO, just like C-suite or somebody that probably have a lot of responsibilities. Stress levels are up, could be up there, challenges, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, obviously psychometric tests are great. As well. But now with this tool, we're able to literally measure in detail from the body. This is not them interpreting a test, but literally it cannot lie. This is a medical device that is measuring in real time how they're reacting to stress. So again, I'm an engineer. I love graphs. So if I understand this correctly, Let's say we're faced with a VR challenge. So obviously, if you're normal, your stress level is going to peak. And then, so what we're measuring is, okay, so it peaked, and then how are you able to manage it? So is it going down fairly quickly because you're able to handle your stress, or does it take a long time before it dips, or it's somewhat normal, it's just pretty quick, but it's not dipping right away? So, this helps. So, you guys take this data and then analyze it and put it in words so we can understand how this actually, what that means and what are things that we can improve on or not improve. It's maybe just confirming that we made the right choice and this person is the right, you know, it's kind of like the data confirming the first evaluation or the second interview. It's like, okay, you know, we're right on. You know, what we felt when we met with that person and our impressions were right on. knowing that now the data is, is also proving what, what, what we had, uh, um, basically evaluated on our own, right?

Yes. Like, also it gives you more handles. Like, you might have this initial impression from someone and then go into this assessment and having 30 scientifically validated parameters just gives you many more handles to look from different angles and go back to your first impression and to then recontextualize it, the future interactions, because those kind of Hires don't happen in one phase. There is typically 5, 6, 7 phases, if not more. So it's really helpful to have it as part of the assessment or the intake procedure, because it gives you much more granularity. And then you have more ways of looking at a person and having different angles to a conversation, right? And more transparency with this person if they consent, of course.

Of course.

Yeah. Data taken as part of the assessment, which is also going to help them make an informed decision.

Decision, and also helps the candidate. I mean, these tools, I'm assuming they're not just used to judge or like, you know, it's like, oh no, no, the stress level didn't go very quickly down. We can't work with this person. I mean, obviously you need to take the data, interpret it in the context and in the big picture of everything else that person brings to the table. And see, okay, is this really a game changer? Is this like a— is this so important that we cannot ignore? We cannot really hire that person because of that little measurement. Or maybe look at it more as, okay, it's something that they need to improve on. But with all the other skills that they have and everything else, this is not a deal breaker for us. So, it's all about the way I see it. It's like We are putting very clear goggles on looking into every single aspect of this person and basically personality and assessment as opposed to maybe 50%. Really, 100% full 360-degree view of what we have, what we're dealing with here, or who that really person— how that person reacts. So, this is really fascinating. I want to share a little question here with our audience. I mean, I don't know if you're excited, fascinated as I am about this, but I find this is a big game changer. And I'm curious to know which technology you're most interested in integrating into your team's processes, or you would be mostly interested in integrating. Would you use VR for training, or you would use VR more— sorry, VR biofeedback? To actually measure stress levels and performance. So please do put it in the chat which one you would be mostly attracted to and prone to using. And I want to, I mean, wrap up because it's already 12:03. I told you, I'm usually trying to keep it under 30 minutes, but it's literally impossible. So again, would you be interested in using this technology? Would you use VR for training or would you use it for VR biofeedback for boosting performance and stress management or for both? Would you use it for both? I can say I would use it for both. We're already using it for VR training, but I'm really, really interested in knowing more about how this technology can boost performance. And help us manage stress better. So, I don't see any Q&A in the chat, but I will look again just in case. No, I don't see any questions. So, it's convenient because we have to wrap up. However, if you're watching the replay, and I know October, November is crunch time. This is the Q4. Everybody's busy and you probably didn't make it and watch this live. But if you are watching the replay, and I hope you are, Please put questions in the chat. We'll go back to it. Put in your comments. Thomas and I would love to basically answer any questions or demystify anything about this VR technology. So I want to also share here— give me a second. One sec, one sec, one sec. Yeah. Just like to make it simple. So if you are a bit curious about all this technology, just type Future Teams in the chat. Sometimes, you know, you have a gazillion questions and it's probably the easiest would be just to reach out and type just a simple word like Future Teams, and we can reach out and do a one-on-one and talk about it further. So please do share your comments or reach out for any questions. And I will follow up with a one-pager like I always do, summarizing this LinkedIn Live and what was discussed. So in case you missed it, you can share it with your teams. And finally, I wanted to share actually that we had our AI webinar yesterday. We have our team leadership boot camp tomorrow, the 3rd week. We're gonna— we're on our 3rd week. I can't believe that we're already there. We've covered leadership and neuroscience. We've covered communication. And tomorrow, we'll be covering actually this technology as well as AI tools to improve team productivity. So I will just be putting up this QR code here in order to— give me a sec, I'm trying to do this and it's not working. Give me a sec. I think there's a lot going on. Let me see.

In my experience, whenever you're trying to introduce new technologies, the old ones start to rebel.

I know, right? I know, I know. So For some reason, my QR code is not showing. I think I just figured it out. There it is. All right. So this is— I just wanted to introduce this boot camp. We talked about it during the webinar last week. We have a boot camp on AI-enhanced productivity. So please do scan the code to know a bit more of what's going on with that and do reach out. And basically, last but not least, I wanted to remind you that our next LinkedIn Live will actually be in November. We're quite busy in October and sometimes I'm on the road. It's hard for me to do LinkedIn Lives. But it's going to be on failure, which is the secret to success. I'm again excited about this subject. It's going to be with John Antonucci. And I'm going to put this back here. Any last words before we We basically end this live. Anything you want to share with us?

I would just say biofeedback, neuroscience, it all sounds fancy. It's nothing that we don't have already. These technologies, for me, they're just training wheels helping you to deepen your awareness. Eventually, you can get rid of the training wheels, use your innate sensing abilities. So I would also want to amplify the power our bodies Like, technology is very cool, very fancy. It helps us becoming more aware. In the end, there is a lot of wisdom in just tuning in right here. Flesh and bone. Yeah.

And you know what, Thomas? I read this in one of Dr. Joe Dispenza's books. He says the body has all— it's got its own pharmacy. You know, we have all the proteins, the chemicals, the hormones, any medicine, we have it in our body. And we are able to— it's there for us to use to improve, heal, etc. We just know, we just need to be aware of the diagnosis. And we have the power to change it. We have the power. And I truly believe that. And I've experienced it myself. The brain has is so powerful and so fascinating. And I think we're scratching the surface as human beings with neuroscience. There's so much more to explore. And bringing this to the workplace, bringing a tool like this and these tools that we talked about today to the workplace to help us understand how we behave and how we can improve at every single level. This will improve team culture, will improve retention, will improve, will make your recruitment more efficient, will improve mental health, will avoid burnouts. I mean, the list goes on and on. So, it's always exciting to be able to bring something forward and shed a light on it, right? And hopefully, we did that today. So, thanks so much for joining us. And thanks so much, Thomas, again. Thank you. Uh, I'll see you tomorrow during the boot camp where you're going to be doing a live, live, um, demonstration, which I'm really excited about. Um, again, anybody watching this, do reach out. Um, you know where to find me, and I will see you