Lead Human, Beat Burnout with Ronan Massez

3 AM, metrics screaming, team exhausted. Ronan Massaz realized that chasing targets is unsustainable. Today, the shift that saved his teams and his results. Welcome everyone to the NeuroLeadership Edge. Brain Science for Bold Leaders Ready to Master Their Mind and Own Their Voice. I'm your host, Claire Hayek, NeuroLeadership expert and founder of Mind Soul Purpose Team Building. Welcome back! Well, my guest today, Ronan Masses. Let me tell you a little bit about him. He's a human-centric marketing strategist and consultant who helps brands shift from product-centric tactics to purpose-driven growth, drawing on two decades of experience leading digital transformation across Latin America. He blends empathy, creativity, and AI to craft experiences that resonate with real human needs. Now, by the end of this episode, you'll have a new science-backed way to steady yourself under pressure, a fast tell for burnout, and a simple team check-in you can pretty much use this week. Ronan, welcome to the show. Welcome to this podcast. We're very excited to have you. How are you doing?

Thanks. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here to share a little bit of knowledge and the things we know as leaders. So thanks for the invitation. Glad to be here.

And it's lovely having you. So Ronan, I mean, I teased the experience, I believe, pretty well. I am just curious to learn more. So let's start at the breaking point. What happened? What's that pressure-filled moment that literally fundamentally changed everything for you? Tell us a bit more.

Yeah, I think it's something that we face all, you know, like as leaders, we have a lot of pressure. Since COVID we had to pursue results all day long, and we are just thinking about that all the time, you know. And sometimes it can be hard because we forget that we are also humans, you know, and we have life. We have personal lives, we have a lot of stuff going on. And at some point we just—

So what happened that day?

It's like all about the work.

What happened that day when you realized what was happening at 3:00 AM? Let's go straight to that moment.

Yeah, I believe it's not even a day, it's a period of time, you know, and it's even worse because it's, it's not about one day that you face that you are going down. It's you're going down and even more, even more every day. And still, until you get— you realize that you can't no more, you know. And for me, it has been that, you know, like it has been like during a lot of times struggles about sleeping, a lot of stress. Even one time I got sick about just because of the work, you know. So it's time of your life that you realize that it isn't worth it, you know, like to live this kind of pressure. And I believe that's what we leave a lot of people inside the organization because we We have a family to provide. We have like a lot of maybe also like ambitions, personal ambitions to grow in those companies and everything.

Yeah.

And we tend to forget about that. So for me, it has been that I couldn't sleep. I suffered a lot of stress. I was like having disease. I was getting sick all the time. I even got asthma at some point, you know, so I was like, What is happening to me? What is wrong? You know, and it was because I was working too hard, too much, putting it through a lot of pressure. And this is when you realize that your mind is controlling also the body, you know, and that it's— and only a good answer is when your body is saying, stop, you cannot go more in this direction. And that's the things that are interesting and that make you realize that we need a shift. We need to train ourselves To be more respectful of our mind and our body.

The body is a very powerful thing, that's for sure. And at that point, I'm assuming probably your body was screaming and yelling and going alarm. You know, it's unfortunate a lot of us go through that, but it's the nature of work. And I think, you know, more and more people are realizing how important to have that work-life balance. And I'm so happy that we're talking. There's a conversation happening right now. And this is why one of the reasons I really wanted you on the show, Ronan, because you turned it around. But before we talk about how you turned it around and give us some hope for people out there listening, they're probably feeling the pressure. I want to quickly talk to you about, right? Yeah. I want to quickly talk to you about a quick tool on how to, to, you know, stop The rush, right? So it's called label and zoom. So when the pressure is building up, you you can do two quick moves. Everyone listening? So the first thing you could do is label what you feel. It's as simple as that. So example, I feel stress and my body is shaking, or I feel stress and I feel it in my chest. Like go back to the body. What that does. Naming what's happening takes it away. So, it reduces the reactivity in the amygdala where all the high emotions and the stress happens and brings it to the prefrontal cortex, which is our CEO, the brain CEO. So, you're really back online. You're not in your emotion and your body is not going at a gazillion miles an hour with all its emotions and the stress level. The second thing is zoom out. So label, then zoom out with the third-person self-talk. It's kind of zooming out and looking at yourself and going, okay, I'm gonna be talking to myself now. Okay, Claire, what matters right now? What's important right now? So when you do the self-distancing, that creates psychological space and a better choice. So you zoom out of the situations instead of being completely embedded in it. Just think 60 seconds and you're not even breathing, like, any— doing any specific breathwork or anything like that. If you want to put in breathwork in there and do like an exhale to help you, great. But just the labeling and zooming out does tremendous help. So hopefully this really helps you, anyone listening right now. Hopefully this tip helps you. So Ronan, back to you.

And if I just might add that if What is important also is to talk about not talking as a first person in terms of, I feel stress. It's also very important to dissociate yourself from the things. I'd just like to add that for the people that are listening. I guess it's a great, great tip also on adding on what you're saying.

Yeah, exactly. So the first thing I said is label what you feel. And I really appreciate you stressing the word feel. Because sometimes we associate with it. And that is so important, Ronan. Thank you for stressing that out. So remember what Ronan said and what I said. I feel, right? We're not judging. We're not completely owning. I am this. I am that. No, we just want to label, right? So let's put a sticker on it. So that really helps. Very good observation, Ronan, by the way. I love that. So let's move on. So what was that mindset mindset shift that you had to do or that lesson that really helped you show up differently? Tell us a bit more.

I guess it has been taking ourselves into consideration. And that's the shift that's led me to what I'm doing now. And the title we put out below my name, that is human-centric growth leader or whatever, because it's really that facing this kind of situation, I realized that we needed to change. not only for myself only, but like the society has to change and we have to reconsider everything we were doing, you know, like from not only the way we work, but the way we think, the way we act on everything, you know. And that's really why I wanted to focus my days, my work, and my contribution to the world at some point focusing on that, on the human-centric, you know, because when we start to put inside the organization the human really in the center of the conversation, Yeah. Everything changed because we are not like— we are focusing on results, but through the humans. And if the humans are not feeling great, if we have too much stress, if we are not comfortable, it's not a good result. And that's the reason why we have to rephrase, reframe everything we do, putting also the human inside, like the organization and the KPIs and everything, because it's part. If you have results in short term, it's great. But at the end, you have to also think about long-term for the company.

Right.

So tell me a little bit about putting the human—

I'm sorry, tell me a little bit about prove your worth.

Sure. Exactly. So the thing I've done afterwards, you know, like in terms of liberating the potential of the people inside the organization, have been the prove your worth way of thinking. You know, like it's putting the human at the center again. It's making sure that your team and your people you're working with are really showing up with what they are good at. So what's it called? It's called also like the unfair advantage. And the unfair advantage is something that you are specifically good at, that you have to work and you are passionate about. You know, like it's at some point maybe the ikigai of a lot of people, you know, but it's the thing that you are really fun of. And when you find that in your associate, in your people, in your— inside your company, it's when they really— they bring all the light that they are, you know. For example, for me, I'm very creative at home, like I believe. So when they put me to do creative work, I excel because it's something that I'm good at and I feel good when I'm doing it. But if you are putting me to something very administrative I'm going to fail. So the thing I was doing with my team is just that, finding their, their own skill, their skills that they are very particular or good at and they like about themselves.

So it's, so it's, it's really all about instead of them proving their worth, to summarize here, would be to encourage or find their worth, right? And highlight their worth as opposed to prove it, right? So exactly.

My understanding is correct. I love that.

I love that. I think it's, it's extremely important to to do that and really make sure that we take the time to do it as opposed to somebody having to prove themselves to you. I think a lot of organizations, as I mentioned, are shifting away from that stress of having to prove yourself. But you'll be surprised at how many other organizations are still doing it, which is even more relevant to the conversation today. So, Ronan, what do you think more leaders understood when they're leading through complexity, change, disruption, especially what's happening nowadays?

Yeah, I believe that's the thing, you know, like complexity and everything that is happening is because we didn't understand one thing, that we have to put again the human at the center. Once we do that, once we understand that change is going to happen every day, that it's going to be like a natural thing that is going to happen, but we learn and we integrate that learning really as human again, it's going to shift everything because we don't see, afterwards, complexity as a challenge but an opportunity. So when you try really to change, to reframe your way of thinking as a human leader, everything changes. And that's the thing that is very important, in my opinion, that we miss. We are used to lead as corporate executives, you know, like we are used to lead through results, through everything.

Absolutely, yeah.

But we didn't understand, like, we have to flow at some point. You know, maybe I don't want to go to like that.

And so, yes. And so, Ronan, so as far as your story, so you were close to burnout and you changed things. What was the one thing you changed in your life that you do right now that could help a listener out there maybe feeling that pressure, feeling that close to burnout? What would be one thing, one thing they could start doing today to help them? You know, we talked about label and zoom out, but from your own story, what was the first thing you did when you realized all this and you wanted to shift? Did you— what is that little change?

For me, it's like self-awareness. Listen to yourself, you know, because Most of the time, the thing that we do is we try to fit inside society, inside the work, and we believe that we are— that most of the people, we believe that I am my title, I am defined by what I'm doing and everything. But no, we are individuals, and we have first to understand who we are, who we are standing for, what are our values, what are the things that we want to do, and everything. It seems basic, but it's— nobody does that at the end, you know. Nobody really took a step back reflecting on ourselves, reflecting on what we stand for and what we want to do really, you know. So we just go, go for it, but we didn't stop doing this self-awareness assessment, asking ourselves, am I doing what I really want to do, what I really represent? I wanted to And once you really have the courage, because it takes courage to do that, when you have the courage to face that and take the steps that are leading towards the real person you want to be.

I mean, you're speaking my language, Ronan. I love the fact that you're saying this and it's coming from you, from your own experience. It's what I'm always talking about. Self-awareness, mindfulness, mental fitness. That's what it's all about. It's really putting yourself first as This is not about being selfish. This is about putting yourself first. Because if you're not taking care of yourself first, you cannot take care and manage your environment as a leader. You come first because you need to be grounded. You need to be mindful. You need to make sure that you are saving your energy and making sure you show up at your top level. Not so you can be top performing and perform go-go. But being at the top of your game, that means you are You are being completely grounded. You are leading with clarity. You are calm no matter what's been thrown at you. And once you have that solid anchor, then you are literally invincible. And this is what mental fitness is about. And this is what I'm always preaching and talking about. That's what I do. So—

And it wasn't prepared. It wasn't prepared. It's just like for people to know that we didn't prepare.

I'm sorry. Say that again.

No, I was saying that we didn't prepare to be so fully aligned.

I know, I know we didn't. No, we didn't even talk about that. But I know it's just the— I knew we had the same values and that's why you're on the show. So this is great. Let me quickly here move on to our listener challenge. I really want to share with you a little challenge like I always do. It should be on the screen now. So this week, choose one meeting. Okay, one meeting. Before the meeting, run like a 90-second check-in. If you don't mind muting your mic, Ron. I'm sorry. Okay, I'm gonna repeat that. So for this week, before one meeting, run a 90-second check-in. So the 2 check-ins is the color check and the one line. The color check is red, yellow, or green. So, whether you're with your team or just within yourself before the meeting, you can do a little check-in and label. Am I feeling I'm in the red? I'm in the yellow? I'm in the green? Red, we're talking about fight or flight, high pressure. I'm really feeling the stress. Yellow is like I'm feeling a little bit of pressure but I got it down. I'm not freaking out here. Green, I'm just fully in flow. Fully grounded. I know exactly what's happening and I'm breathing. Okay, so do the color check-in— red, yellow, green— and then choose just one line. Okay, say one line. One thing that would make today 10% easier is— and fill in the blank. So again, you can do this by yourself before a meeting or you can do it with your teammates. So again, one line. One thing that would make today 10% easier is. And then take all that and act on it. So self-awareness, which also Ronan mentioned. And then the one thing that makes it— will make everything 10% easier or make me 10% happier or would just make me happier is— and just act on it. It could be something very small. It doesn't have to be anything big. So write this down, observe what happens, and please do this in the next 48 hours. It usually helps Just to take action and share what changed with #LeadHuman and tag me, Claire Hayek, on LinkedIn or any other social media. You can also find Ronen and tag him as well, Ronen Massis. We are approaching the rapid fire. So, I'm gonna ask you 3 questions.

Sure.

And remember, they're like very quick answers. You got 10 to 15 seconds. Roughly to answer them. No stress here, but just to keep it moving. So, ready?

Ready.

All right, let's go. So first sign your team is burning out.

I feel them stressed and I saw and I see like hard faces. I don't even say that in English, but like I see their faces, you know, like for me, the emotional body response, body language is very clear.

Okay, great. That's so— first thing is observing. One ritual you won't skip in a high-pressure week. What is the one thing that you do to help you when you're highly stressed in a high-pressure week?

Exercise.

What's your favorite exercise?

To release. Running.

Go for a jog or take a swim. Yay! Love it. One last, the third one. A book or a podcast that rewired how you feel? Sorry, how you lead. I'm going to do this again. Book or podcast that rewired how you lead?

For me, it starts with the why, Simon Sinek. I guess it always has been like a desk book, you know, because it's really framing what we are discussing also. And it's all about purpose and everything. So it's for me, that's a great book.

And speaking of books, Everyone listening, Ronan's book Human-Centric Marketing is coming this year. It'll be published in Spanish. And it's frameworks and field stories to scale results without scaling burnout. We're all really looking forward to it. Ronan, I'm really excited about sharing your book with us. So, if you like this episode, please subscribe to the NeuroLeadership Edge. You can see a QR code here right on the right-hand side where you see Ronan. So please scan it. You have all the links. If you want some brain-based tools, whether it's the podcast or the newsletter, we do deep dives. So please do check that QR code and follow the links and get those resources. They're free. I love giving things away. So again, Ronan, thank you so much for joining us today.

You're welcome.

Thank you. And well, look out for that book, everyone. And remember, lead boldly, stay human, and turn every challenge into a gift because they are gifts. See you all next week.