Stop Trying to Be Liked — Start Getting Things Done with Kim Klemballa

Have you ever been afraid that someone on your team might not like you? Maybe you toned down your feedback, softened your message, or hesitated to push harder, all in the name of keeping the peace. Today's episode will challenge that instinct because sometimes the most respected leaders aren't the most liked. They're the most consistent, clear, and courageous. Welcome to the NeuroLeadership Edge, the show where we explore the science of leadership and the art of showing up as your boldest self. I'm your host, Claire Hayek, founder of Mind Soul Purpose Team Building, ex-engineer, lifelong musician, TEDx speaker. And I'm really excited to be here with you and talk about neuroscience and give you tools behind performance mindset and modern leadership. In this episode, you're going to learn why your brain is wired to crave approval and how to reprogram that instinct. And you're going to learn how to lead with clarity, even when your decisions are unpopular. And the one story that helped my guest redefine success respect, and bold leadership. My guest today is Kim Klimbala, Head of Marketing for CoinDesk Data and Indices, a brand strategist, and a board member for Empower Women That Rock. With 2 decades in finance and digital assets, Kim is known for executing complex global launches and building scalable marketing infrastructures. But beyond her professional success, Kim's story is about courage, about learning that being respected matters more than being liked, and that clarity sometimes means not pleasing everyone. Kim, how are you?

Hi, thanks so much for having me.

Oh my God, I'm really excited about this one. I mean, who wants to talk about, talk about that, right? Who wants to talk about it? And this is why this podcast is all about bold leadership. Having the conversations that people probably avoid. And the whole point is just to unpack certain things that might cause stress for people and just humanize it a bit more and see, see basically how it can help our listeners today. So without further ado, Kim, let's start with that pivotal story. What happened that day?

Sure. So yes, let me tell you a quick story of a compliment that changed my life. So 10+ years ago, or even longer, I was running the marketing, events, PR, content for this ETF launch. And I was working with several different teams, of which many I didn't manage directly. Through a few things that had happened, we fell very behind on the launch. And typically you can chalk issues up to 2 things. Is it a process issue or is it a person or people issue? And you always want to try the process issue first. Is, you know, there a communication process with, you know, how we're handling things? And in this case, it ended up coming down to someone's team and team member that was blocking some things. So some tough calls had to be made with some of the managers and my counterparts. But at the end of the day, we had a very successful launch, which no one thought we were going to actually execute on time. And I'll never forget the manager whose team went into a bit of disarray from all of this called me up and he said, I don't like you, but I respect what you did. And I want to repeat that because it was a defining moment, and I'll chat a little about that. But he said once again, I don't like you, but I respect what you did. And in that moment, I realized I don't have to be liked. I have a job to get done. And don't get me wrong, I want to be liked. I like being liked. But at the end of the day, there's a job to get done. And if you have a blocker, you either have to go around it or go through it.

I mean, I love that sentence. I love it. Obviously confrontational, but focused, clear, and authentic, and basically completely reshape how you lead because it speaks to the difference between approval and respect from a neuroscience perspective. Our brains are wired to avoid rejection, right? I mean, nobody even wants to talk about it. The same regions that actually process social pain, they light up as if we're physically hurt when we're being rejected. If you can just imagine that. But high-performing leaders like you learn to pretty much quiet that system, that Brings that pain forward. You shifted from, I need them to like me, to I need to lead effectively. So let's keep going. So what changed in how you approach people and projects since then?

I always start from a project side. I think it's always important to start at the end. Like, what are your intended outcomes? Because if you don't know what your intended outcomes are and what you want to have happen as a result, It's hard to figure out how to get there. It's like you don't just start— if you have a destination, you plug into the map how you're going to get there, and there's many different routes. So once you know what the end outcome is, you figure out how to get there. And from the lessons I've learned as far as getting there, it's having the right process, having the right people, and building a path and working through issues and resolving them in a way, but, but still always maintaining focus on that outcome and cutting out the noise around you that might block or deter you from getting there.

Right. I mean, by focusing on where are we heading, what needs to be done needs to be done to get there within reason, obviously. So you've kind of, if I circle back to that comment, and how that shaped you in a way is that you trained your brain to handle discomfort instead of avoiding it for the mere reason just to get people to the end result. Because you're taking responsibility and you're asking people to trust you and you're handling it that, you know, I'm going to get it done. I got you. You might not like some things I do, but I'm doing this for you. I really, I mean, I really truly respect that. It's very inspiring. But let's talk about actually another moment you mentioned earlier, the conversation you overheard as a young professional where women said you couldn't have both a career and kids. How did that influence you?

That was— it was a very long time ago. But yes, and it wasn't directed at me. It was just women in leadership talking about the struggles with that. And I think as a society, like, we've come a long way to empower women, which is, you know, what the association Empower Women That Rock is about, like empowering one another. But it is— it's always a bit of a struggle because if you're— if you're in one place, you can't be in the other. And there's almost this guilt with you that you have to release. So to answer your question, hearing that, Made me think, no, I can do it. They love the challenge. I'm gonna prove them wrong. So I do. I have, I have 3, I have 3 little kids, and it's not, it's not easy. I'm not gonna say, you know, it's, it's all great, but they wake up healthy, and I count my blessings. And I think the key to managing the work and the life and achieving some form of balance in whatever that looks like is about organization, like staying organized, staying on task, uh, knowing what you have to achieve each day and longer term and, and how you can get there. So it's, it's similar to like maintaining that path. Although I will tell you, if, if you went downstairs to my house, it is, it is a path of destruction.

I think a lot of people can relate to that. I mean, parents out there listening to this, the professionals that are parents. Um, I think, I think also you, you said something that was a long time ago, and you're absolutely right. But it, it was— it is something that shaped a lot of us, a lot of women that took that as a challenge instead of rebelling from anger, where we took that and rewired, rewired our brains for, we could do this. They challenged the status quo. And challenge the either/or mentality and build the both/and mentality or neural pathway. And, and you did it through action. You did it. You rewired your brain through action. You just did it. And the thing is, maybe now it's another challenge that we might be facing, not just as women, just as human beings. I mean, there's a lot of disruption with AI. There's a lot of talk about a lot of stuff. And the new ways of doing things, the workplace, what is it going to look like for the future generation and even your kids right now? It's very disruptive. And I think bringing those lessons from— at the time it was that, but now it's something else. But having that neural pathway that knows to challenge it and just go with it and just take action. you're better equipped to tackle on any challenge, any disruption going forward. And let me tell you, I'm— I don't have kids, but I have so much respect for parents, for moms and dads. And it is a big job. It's a big job. And I mean, I respect that a lot. And having a career and having kids, it's no easy feat. And I think a lot of women also, and dads, you know, there's a lot of stay-at-home dads as well. Feel that way. We don't talk about that enough anymore. But I'm glad we're kind of mentioning it and the chaos downstairs.

That's chaos.

Very authentic. I love it.

I'm not going to sugarcoat it.

And that's what we do here. No sugarcoating, that's for sure. So, okay, let's move on here. You also talked about learning patience, especially in leadership meetings. And I think a lot of people listening might be going, oh my God, The meeting of the meeting for the meeting that was the meeting, and then here we go, right? Tell me, what have you learned?

Sure. So I can say that the 3 things I've learned just from— or 3 things I wish someone would have given me as advice, maybe.

Right.

First is about patience. Like, listen with intent to learn. Have patience. Sometimes you want to say something or you want to do something and maybe you do it a little too quick or you do it without fully understanding things. And it's important before you jump to something to take a step back and evaluate. So the first one in there would be patience. And there's a lot going through my mind right now. So we'll see where this lands. The next one I'd say is, how do I say this? More isn't always meaningful. We try to take on so much and doing more doesn't always mean, like I said, it's meaningful. It's not always quantity. It's a quality behind it.

Right.

And it's good to look if you have 50 things to do, if you didn't do some, Would that be okay? Or are there things that are being neglected that you should do more of? So when you look at all the things you do, what's the most meaningful? And that's where the time should go. And then I'd say the other thing is to build meaningful connections, like connect with people. And once again, not everyone's going to like you, but you'll find people to connect with. And there's a really good quote. I think Porter Gale said it. Your network is your net worth.

Right.

I really like that because it's a lot of— it's about build meaningful connections and find those people and stay in touch with them.

Thank you for sharing these. So relevant. And I think these are great reminders. A lot of us sometimes forget, you know, or take for granted in a way. And definitely the quality of, you know, not more. You know, I always say less is more. Just sometimes we're trying, it's just the simplest things, simple task. And we're like, oh my God, we're beefing it up and we're going crazy putting all this pressure. And I'm like, let's just simplify it. Let's just peel off all this noise. And what are we trying to do? Keep it simple. Less is more. That was one of the things that really affected me in my Earlier professional years as a leader, my boss then at the time would say it a lot, and that really stayed with me. So that really resonated with me. It's just such a great reminder. Thanks for sharing that. So here we go. We're up to the rapid-fire questions. We have a bit of time, so it doesn't have to be short, short.

Okay.

But, you know, you can elaborate a little bit if you want. All right. You ready?

Yes.

Let's go. A book or podcast or a conference that really helped you or rewired how you lead.

Like the first thing that comes to my mind, because I actually think about this book a lot and the children, I read it to them, is The Giving Tree.

Can you tell us a little bit about this? Because now I'm really intrigued.

So it's a children's book.

Right. But what is the storyline?

It's about a boy who has a tree, and he keeps asking the tree for things, and the tree gives him the leaves and then the branches and then the trunk as the boy gets older. And at the very end, it's just a stump, and the boy who's now an old man just sits on it.

Aw.

And it's a nice story. And there's, I think there's like a lot of concepts there. And from a child's side, there's one concept of giving, but as an adult, there's a few other concepts there of taking, like one-sided. So I think of that story a lot from like a few different concepts.

There's no right or wrong answer here. And I love the fact that you're bringing something completely different. I love the authenticity of your message. And so, let's unpack this though because now, I'm really intrigued. I get it. I get the story. How did that affect you when you read that story? How does it affect you as a leader? What has that taught you?

I think as far as the leadership goes, I think it's about giving and encouraging and listening from that side as a leader. Like you always want to be there. You always want to be listening and give.

Like for that.

And then at some point you also want to make sure you, you get something.

It's a give and take kind of thing. It's a 2-way relationship, basically. Yes. That— this is great. All right. I love it. I learned something new today, but let me tell you, I'm a big fan of kids' movies. I mean, I love those things. I can watch animated movies. I love the music. I will learn the whole soundtrack by heart. That, that's my little secret. But, uh, all right, let's— let me ask you the second question. The best advice you've ever received in one sentence, if you can.

There's a lot of advice. So once I'm just— the first thing that comes to my head is, um, if you're the smartest person at the table, you're at the wrong table.

Oh yeah, I love that one.

So from a professional stance, it just goes to show you don't want to be the smartest person in the room. You just want to keep learning and building and growing. So it's important to surround yourself with people that are smarter than you to always continue to humble yourself and grow.

100%. Couldn't agree more. And the third one, if you could define leadership in one word, what would it be?

Intent.

Intent.

Like lead with intent and know what that intent is. And then I'd also say patience, but the one word would be, would be intent.

Intent. And that's presence. And that's, that's pretty much what I preach all the time. And I try to apply all the time is we need to be present. And when you're present, you do have intent. Everything you say has intent because you are completely there. And, uh, you're, you're, you know, you're not just being surrounded by— you're going to be surrounded by chaos, but in the midst of the chaos and the disruption, you are anchored and grounded. And your intent is right there. I truly love that. Thank you so much, Kim. And thank you for reminding us that most importantly, that leadership isn't about being liked, right? It's about being aligned. And you taught us that, you know, it's— you could have that clarity, you can have that intent and be kind. And patience is power. Right? And boldness. You're very bold. I think you're the example of what bold is. And I, I mean, I'm so happy that you joined this, uh, this episode and shared your experience with us. And, um, and one thing maybe we should keep in mind, that boldness sometimes looks like being misunderstood for a while and not being scared. And, you know, I think if I, if I would say one thing, don't be scared to be bold and be the odd one in the room maybe, or the one that is looked at as not everybody's bestie in pleasing everyone. And that's okay. It just makes the brains uncomfortable. People are not used to it. But if you're aligned, you're authentic, you're patient, and you're kind, they're gonna see you. They're gonna see you, definitely. And I mean, here's the proof. So if today's conversation resonated with you, please take a moment to rate the NeuroLeadership Edge on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, whatever platform you're using. It really helps more, more of our listeners, more leaders to find this work. And if you want to go deeper into training your brain for clarity, for courage, for presence, for intent, and not being afraid of being bold and being more courageous, join my masterclass, Step Into Your Power: Mental Fitness Uh, you'll find all the information by scanning the QR code that you see here, and if you're listening on audio, it will be in the description. Please follow, please subscribe, please share this episode. Whoever you think needs to hear this, maybe somebody's struggling and maybe they feel that they are the outsider in the room. I think this would be a great one for somebody that is, is uneased with their boldness. Please do share. with your network as necessary. Now, Kim, any last words to our listeners here?

Just thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And, you know, we, we do have the association Empower Women That Rock for women that have similar, uh, thoughts they want to share or things they want to talk about, or if there's any struggles. And of course, like, men can chat with us too. Uh, so Empower Women That Rock is on LinkedIn and Instagram, and there's a website so that you can check it out there. Great.

And we will be putting the links to Empower Women That Rock in the description. We'll be sharing that for, um, for our listeners. But please do connect with me. Uh, all my socials are under this QR code, and connect with Kim. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time, remember, you don't have to be liked. to be respected. Okay, let's, let's remember that, everyone. And stay bold, stay kind, and keep leading with your heart and your mentally fit brain. All right, and we'll see you very soon. Bye for now.