The Black Belt Formula to Lead Through Any Challenge with Michael Gizzi

What does martial arts have to do with HR leadership? Everything. Today's guest went from being a professional musician and lifelong martial artist to leading people operations at scale. And he created a simple 3-step formula for resilience that any leader can use. If you've ever felt the weight of change and complexity, This episode will give you a system to fight back. Welcome to the NeuroLeadership Edge, brain science for bold leaders ready to master their mind and own their voice. I'm your host, Claire Hayek, NeuroLeadership expert, ex-engineer, lifelong musician, And the founder of Mind Soul Purpose Team Building. So, what you're going to learn today is how martial arts and music— I know, right?— built Michael Giti's unique leadership edge. Why leading from the back is sometimes the most powerful move. And this one is gold. The 3-step theory-action-result formula to handle any challenge. My guest, Michael Gietze, is the VP of People Operations at VetStrategy and the founder of Syncrose HR Advisory Services. With a passion for aligning organizational performance with operational needs, Michael has delivered authentic, practical solutions across a wide range of market sectors throughout his career. A genuine, authentic, and trusted leader, he is also a repeat speaker at the Strategy Institute's Employee Experience Summit, where he shares insights on leadership and culture-building best practices. Michael, how's it going?

Fantastic. Thanks so much. That was such a glowing intro. I appreciate it.

My pleasure. Well, you know, deserved. Michael, thanks for joining. I love your story. And I'm so excited to share it with everyone here today. Now, I know we've talked before and you told me your story. And I know you've led through high-growth demands and Definitely startup chaos, if I may say, right? So take us back. Take us back to that moment when you had to hire 30 consultants in 2 months without having the technical skills yourself. So how did this whole thing, this pressure, shape your leadership?

Well, I mean, so we talked about the aspect of resilience. We talked about the aspect of just kind of boiling the problem down to actionable outcomes that you really need to take ownership on. So at the time, I was tasked as a, as really young in my career as a corporate recruiter working for a tech startup to hire 30 professional services consultants for financial software. And the really big problem was, well, I didn't really have either a finance background or an IT background to really understand, okay, what was it that I was really going, how was I gonna accomplish this lofty goal by these individuals? So I really boiled it down to, okay, I will first, I need to know. I need to know what I'm asking. So I partnered with some great individuals within the company to really understand, okay, what is it that I need to know? I actually got so deep into it that I was building the databases so I can actually understand exactly what the questions to ask and, you know, get the right people.

Right.

And turns out, like, you know, by actually getting involved in the actual— in the action got me to a point where I was able to actually not only meet the demand, but I beat it ahead of schedule. Which I'll be honest, surprised myself even because it was such a lofty goal.

So what is it really like? What is the— I think the tool that you took out of your toolbox?

So at that point, yeah. So at that point, it was getting to that theory-practice-result or theory-action-result mindset that you just kind of alluded to at the intro.

Okay. So let's not give it away yet. That's not— okay. So it was really Yep. That 3-step rule that you applied back then.

Back then. That's correct.

Okay. And it's something that you knew or you just learned because of what happened?

It was one of those situations where I eventually gave it some structure and a name, but it was a process that I kind of always intuitively went to in my mind as to how I can tackle these particular obstacles or challenges, like how to think it through. Boil it down and then revisit each kind of like step of the way.

Right.

So that's, and, you know, and sometimes that requires help. Sometimes that requires some coaching and guidance that I got. I was fortunate enough to tap some people on the shoulder too, and they were gracious enough to help me. It's because we recognized that it was a mutual success win if we can get that done. So all to say, it was just identifying and really kind of mapping out the really massive Kind of uphill ask that was being challenged on me, boiling it down to its smallest parts, getting the help that was really needed, and then kind of revisiting and tweaking along the way.

I mean, you know, that's pretty much, I guess I should say, the neuroscience of resilience right there. So kind of taking the impossible and making it doable, but really using, you know, your brain rewired itself through micro wins, through micro challenges and micro wins.

Yes.

Instead of just taking on the giant task. That definitely helped build that resilience and kept you going. So, this is extremely interesting. Okay, so you've said leadership doesn't always mean being front and center. Sometimes, it means coaching from the back in silence. Okay, so where did that lesson come from and how do you use it now?

Um, I would say it's probably a couple of pieces where, where I got the source from. Like, so one is definitely in my sports career, like prior to being, being heavily involved in martial arts, I was playing soccer a lot. And, and with that, you always understand, okay, you know, there's in moments of a play, you have to not only, you have to be the leader, but other times you gotta be the support. And it's obvious, constantly checking each other's blind spots. So if my position in primarily was a, was, was a right defenseman. Uh, if my midfielder was going up, I got to make sure I'm covering his back. So sometimes that means me just playing my role as a support in silence means nothing's getting past him or getting past me when we're out of position. Another area more specifically within music was, you know, as within bandmates, there's peaks and valleys of a song, there's ebbs and flows. And sometimes as a guitarist, like, you want to be able to take lead, and sometimes there's a moment for that. Other times you gotta, you gotta play it back a little bit to allow the real kind of crescendo to, to really manifest and get to that point where you can actually really make an impact. And sometimes that means playing nothing at all, or sometimes really playing softly. So when we're talking about leadership, a lot of those come into play. Like you, it's very easy, especially being a subject matter expert and, and as a leader, whereby you, your personality and your voice can carry a lot of weight. And can overshadow maybe other members of the team. So sometimes it's purposefully taking a step back and allowing your people to lead and take that ownership. Gives them those life lessons, gives them those tempered aspects that they need when it comes to the real kind of developing of skill, especially in leadership if they haven't led yet. So all to say is those are used almost on a daily basis, I would say.

Yeah. And it's all about the dynamics. I mean, if you just think about music, it doesn't go one way. You need to have these nuances. You need to be able to maybe, if we look at it more on the leadership end of things, just be the active listener. And that means silence. And when it's time to really step up, that's when you got your crescendo there. And then, because that's what makes it interesting. It's a dialogue. It's a conversation. We know it's also the mirror neurons. We're just mirroring each other and complementing each other and collaborating, communicating. And it is a dance. It is music. It is a form of art. I find leadership is, right?

Yeah. Okay.

All right. So, you've said one of the first lessons you learned in martial arts is to Get comfortable being uncomfortable. So, how do you apply that when leading through disruption and change today? And maybe tell us a bit more about the story and where this came from.

Sure. So, when starting any type of discipline of martial arts, so I've had the fortunate opportunity to get involved with 2 major ones that I joined many, many years ago, which was Muay Thai and then jiu-jitsu. Despite how fit you are or how, or how confident you might be, the moment you walk into your first lessons, you come to first quickly realize how out of your depth you are when it comes to facing off against like practiced, accomplished martial artists. So it's one of those things where it's a lesson in humility, right? So it's—

Hmm.

It's the ability to understand, okay, this is going to be uncomfortable. That's part of the learning process. It's going to be challenging. get comfortable with that, with that, with those ideas, and move it into like how you can get those, like as you said earlier, those, those micro doses of success, right?

Micro wins.

Yeah, exactly right. So, you know, there's a saying in martial arts, especially more in jiu-jitsu, which is like you train like a black belt or with the discipline of a black belt, but with the humility of a white belt. How you, wherever you are in your, in your journey, you're always keeping those 2 aspects balanced.

Okay, so let's repeat that slowly because I want people to write this down.

Yes. So you lead with the discipline of a black belt.

Say that again. Sorry.

So you train with the discipline of a black belt.

Train with the discipline of a black belt.

But with the humility of a white belt.

But with the humility of a white belt. Love that.

Yeah. So it's, it's that constant, um, balance of Discipline and effort against the thirst for learning.

Right.

That's how I would best describe it. So how that manifests into just my day-to-day as a leader is you're going to be faced with curveballs. People are people no matter where you are in any type of business, and they're unique, and their situations then encompass a lot of unique needs. So you're, you know, it's up to you how you show up for those. And sometimes it's not going to be comfortable. Sometimes you have to really be active listening. You have to genuinely show up with that discipline, as I mentioned. And you have to approach it as if, you know, you don't necessarily know the right answer, that you're going to find out what needs to be done. You're going to find— and sometimes it's not going to result right then and there. You have to, you know, kind of take it back and think about it and really strategize and analyze it before you come back with a solution that might be an optimal support for the individual or a win-win. It really all depends.

Right. And then, I mean, I know I teased this at the beginning, that your 3-step reaction-result loop. So I really want to dive into this. I'm really curious. And I want our listeners also to learn more about it. this rule basically you came up with. And I'm just curious though, did that come from martial arts, from music, from all the above, or was this something that kind of came on its own when you were faced with that big challenge we talked about in the first, the beginning of the show?

So it definitely had influence in both my time in music and in martial arts. And more specifically, it derived from martial arts when you're learning a new technique, the one thing that they always teach you is, okay, focus on technique first, then speed, then power. Because if you try to throw everything, you know, with speed and power and without the proper technique, it's just not going to work. And you kind of, you kind of build on each level, right? And what I did was I kind of took that and kind of manifested it into something a little bit more that spoke to me, which is like, okay, I got to assess, I got to theoretically kind of understand What's in front of me, what the problem is. I'm gonna take action. And then for that, I'm going to assess its result. Sometimes that means I have to go right back to theory. Sometimes I have to get like, I have to stay in the practice action section, but all the while it's kind of running through that 3-step cadence. It's like constantly in a loop almost. And what I came to realize is that when I was doing that, it was applicable almost to everything I did. Like, you know, when I was in music and I was writing and I was practicing with my bandmates, We would understand, okay, this is where we want to go with this, with this particular track, and we're actioning it, we're playing through it, and they're like, you know, it's not really working. Maybe we need to go back to theory. And we have to— and we kind of went through that same loop. And I mean, you'll come to learn that probably people who are listening to this probably do this already in some way, shape, or form.

Yeah.

But giving it structure just helped me understand it better and really kind of apply it in pretty much almost everything I do. Both my professional life and my personal life.

Yeah, this is really interesting because I think you said it that we probably do that in a way without realizing, just instinctively. But I feel that when you know and you're conscious of it and you apply it on purpose, knowing that this is a tool I have in my toolbox and it's called the 3-step theory-action-result loop, then it gives you the framework to when you're specifically, when you're in a position of panic, fight or flight, you're in your amygdala and it's like panic.

Panic.

There's so much to do, or I'm not sure what I'm doing here. Then instead of relying on your instinct, 'cause at this point you're not thinking probably straight, you're in panic mode, you're not in your prefrontal cortex. Having a tool like that just totally grounds you and says, okay, say, okay, let's apply the 3-step process. So what that does, it puts you in problem-solving mode. And it puts you straight into your prefrontal cortex, out of your emotions and amygdala and the panic. And so, you can think straight. Now, your brain is not foggy and you're not just completely in a blind spot. And I believe that's really related to resilience. It's an aspect of resilience as far as I'm concerned, right?

Yeah, no, 100%. So, I mean, when we were— for instance, in martial arts when you're competing, You know, you're going through your prepper, your preparation, and you get out there at the end of the day, like despite your coaches, it's you out there. So in their way, they're leading from the back. Cause I mean, it's all there. They prepared you and now it's up to you to deliver. But in those moments of like, say adversity, and you're, you're trying to kind of make sense of what's happening in front of you, cause it's all happening in real time and split-second increments. When you start to kind of adapt this and get really good at the muscle memory of understanding Okay, this is my theory, practice, results cadence. Sometimes things happen, like I can't count the amount of times where it starts to happen in slow motion for me. I can see it, like I can see it almost as it's happening before it happens and I can prepare for it. And it's, it's, it's helped me. Just giving it structure has really helped me a lot.

I love that. And so you've basically wired it deeply into your brain. You have a 3-step neural pathway right now. That you don't even have to think about it. It's automatic in a way. It just, your brain goes there when you're in that situation.

Absolutely. So, I mean, we, we talk about, you know, you know, the importance of it, whether it's in sport, whether it's in music, the importance of drilling, right? The importance of practice, the importance of doing repetition, right? And it, what the reason for that is, I guess, it becomes, it makes your actions and your reactions habitual, like almost instinctual.

Yeah.

And this is no different. Like, a skill is a skill, and no matter how you learn it, to hone it and to practice it and to get it to a point where it's razor sharp only happens when you start to use it over and over again to a point where it's automatic for you.

Yeah. Well, our brain gets wired by repetition. So what you practice, you strengthen. What you avoid, you weaken. So that totally makes sense. We're speaking the same language. All right. So Let's dive into the rapid-fire questions. I mean, we have a bit of time. It doesn't have to be 30-second answers. You can elaborate a tiny bit more. So, one book, conference, or podcast that rewired how you lead?

One, sorry, one book, conference?

A conference or a podcast that rewired how you lead.

Easily, when Simon Sinek's Start with Why.

Okay.

I loved, like, it's such a simple but effective concept where he kind of reframed the question, right? And how you think through a problem, but how you position a solution, right? Where people understand the context. When people understand the context better, they understand really the desired outcome and like the end actions as, you know, to see it through. I thought that— I thought it was simple but brilliant. Well, you know, and obviously, you know, he had— I think that was his first, yeah, like intro of understanding Simon Sinek, and he's had an immense career as a result of it.

And it was a defining moment in his career for sure. It's influenced so many people, and what— 100% makes sense. I mean, you know, it was one of the things that really jumped at me as well when I, when I watched it. I'm like, you kind of think of that but not really, you know, you don't consciously think of it. But yeah, definitely. What discipline from martial arts or music do you actually still use every day? I don't know.

There's so many. There's so many. And then some of which we've touched on, I think. But the underlying piece that we've spoke— we kind of alluded to is sequence, right? You go through kind of like you're almost like your mental checklist of things you need to get done as far as I get. But more importantly, rather than Very— to take a page out of Simon Sinek's book, it's not about the why. In this case, it's the how. It's how I'm going to go about it. It's how I'm going to deliver. It's how I'm going to get the best outcome. And you start to kind of cater your navigation through that as best as you can to under— like, with the information you have. And again, if you don't have it, well, how am I going to get that? Right. So the important— I'm going to paraphrase Simon. It's the importance of how in that regard.

Yeah. I love how this is following the whole, like, why, the how, and the what. Well, Speaking of what, what do you want the next generation of leaders to understand about resilience?

I would say just like anything else, resilience is— I've met a lot of leaders and individuals who are striving to become leaders oftentimes avoid the tough adversity or challenge to avoid those tough conversations or to avoid You know, the troublesome kind of ripple effect that might happen and understand, like, it's unavoidable because it's going to manifest no matter what. But like anything else, you know, like we talked about earlier, get comfortable with being uncomfortable because the more you can hone and better those skills, you become tempered and you become, you know, much more prepared and much more resilient than you might think towards those type of adversity challenges.

Mm-hmm.

So, I would say stop avoiding it. Run towards that fire and see how— and then listen, you're bound to make mistakes. That's the best opportunity to learn. Dust yourself off and go on to the next lesson.

I couldn't agree more. We talk about courage. We talk about confidence. But confidence, it comes through the act. You do the thing that scares you the most. And this is where you get courage. That's where courage comes in. That's how you learn courage and you get confidence.

Exactly.

Not by waiting for courage to suddenly appear for you to do the thing that scares you, right? Thanks for sharing that. Now, I can't believe we're already at the end of the episode. I just wanted to share with the listeners, as usual, to scan the QR code that you see here on the screen for updates on webinars that are coming up, masterclass that are happening, as well as free resources. I always have free PDFs and resources to share with you. Please do scan the code. If you're listening to the audio, check the description. Please follow the show. It really helps. And if you, of course, like it, share it. Of course you do because you're listening. And we have amazing guests. So no, seriously, please do follow the show, share it, and definitely share the episode with somebody that you think would really benefit from it. Maybe somebody that could use the 3-step rule today and be really inspired by Michael's story. I think we all have responsibility to inspire and cause that ripple effect. And this is why I do this show. I want bold leaders that have gone through difficulties, not necessarily big challenges and death-related problems. That's not the point. But what's important here is that we have bold leaders that have a story that could help, that could add value to the listeners because we all have a story. And often, when I reach out to people, they say, I'm not sure what kind of story you want me to tell because I don't have one. And then, we meet and I find out. I'm like, what do you mean? You have a huge story to share here. And it's interesting because we all think that we're not— it's not important. You know, what I go through is not important. Every single challenge, and we all go through challenges, every single challenge we go through is important because that's how we are shaped. That's how we learn resilience. And that's how we step up. So, if you do have a story, by the way, and you're interested to be on the show, please do reach out. If you scan the code, you'll have all my links, all my socials. You'll know how to reach me. I'd love to open the door for a lot of leaders that are inspiring or that just want to share their story and I guess, make an impact, a positive impact in people's lives. So again, thank you so much, Michael, for joining me today and sharing all these gold nuggets. Any last words you'd like to share with the audience?

No, I, well, I mean, first of all, thank you as well. I mean, I thought this was fantastic and similar to what you just said, I didn't think I had a story to tell until you and I met.

I remember.

Yeah. And I mean, this is just life, like what happens, but no, it's always interesting when, when someone can see the value in kind of your origin story as, because when you, maybe you sometimes you're just too close to it. Right. Um, I just hope that everyone, you know, if you got a little out of this or a lot, My hope is that, you know, neither way you got something out of it that was enjoyable to listen to. And if you want to reach out, you can find me on LinkedIn and you can find me on synchros.net, which is my company site. But I really, again, appreciated everything in regards to setting all this up, all the work that went through to get this out. It was a lot of fun and I would highly recommend it to anyone who's interested in joining.

Thank you so much, Michael. It was such a pleasure. And everybody else, lead boldly, stay human, and Remember, turn every challenge into a gift. You can always find 3 gifts for every challenge. You'll be surprised. You actually develop that muscle and you will get very creative in finding those gifts. Because what else are you going to do? Get depressed over something difficult? I might as well find a gift and have fun with it, right? And learn and grow, right? Thank you all for listening.