The Hidden Reason Your Team Isn't Following Through with Lisa Riegel

Most leaders think the problem is in the execution. Well, it's not. It's what happens in the brain before execution even starts. Welcome to the NeuroLeadership Edge. I'm Claire Hayek, NeuroLeadership expert, TEDx speaker, and founder of Mind Soul Purpose Team Building. I spent more than 20 years leading high-stakes projects and teams where pressure was constant. What I learned is very simple. Pressure doesn't build leaders. It reveals the system they're operating from. Some leaders stay clear, grounded, and decisive while others become reactive, scattered, and inconsistent. So the difference is not experience per se. It's It's the operating system behind how they think, decide, and lead. That system is what I call pressure-proof leadership. And this show is about how to build it. In this episode, we're going to break down 3 things: why most change efforts fail even when leaders are aligned, what actually blocks execution inside teams, and how clarity and consistency become non-negotiable Under Pressure. My guest today is Lisa Regal. Lisa is a strategist and change catalyst who uses brain science to help organizations move from ideas to real execution. She's also the author of Aspirations to Operations, and she works with leadership teams to turn strategy into sustainable action across the organization. Hi, Lisa!

Hi, how are you?

I'm good. How are you?

I'm wonderful. Happy to be here.

Okay, let's dive right in. A lot of leaders feel like they've done the work. They've defined the strategy. They've aligned the team. They've communicated well. And then, nothing really changes, right? I'm sure, Lisa, you've seen this before many times, probably. So, from your perspective, and this is really what I'm interested in, is what's actually happening in that moment?

Why is nothing So, I think oftentimes leaders spend most of their efforts on the structure and the planning, but they don't really engage the human system. And so, policies shape change, but people make change. And so, when the plans are laid and everybody's been communicated with and everything's purchased and we're ready to go and nothing's happening, it's usually because the human system isn't engaged. Either they're not clear about what they actually are supposed to do, like you haven't got from the 10,000-foot view down to the the ground level. Or maybe they haven't, they don't have meaningful collaborative practices. So they don't really understand what their role is. A lot of times, it's about a lack of collective efficacy. And I think the other thing that I see a lot is leaders don't pay attention to the emotional change, the emotional toll that change takes, and the fact that change is scary. And there's lots of different reasons that people resist. Change when the change is good for them. And so, by attending to those human factors, they can start to move the system in the right direction.

Okay. And so, can I say maybe what you're describing here is something that we see often? I mean, that we don't talk about often, but we see often is that we're talking about change and what change does. It causes pressure. There's some stress. There's some uncertainty. Even if things look aligned, people don't operate from intention when They feel they're under pressure. And from my experience, and I know you know this, I mean, even when I introduced you, like you use neuroscience and this is really where we agree on a lot of stuff. People operate from patterns, right? Especially when the pressure is on, they're just gonna default to patterns. And if those patterns aren't trained, then we can plan and have the perfect plan on how to execute, they're not able to access that because we haven't really built that perfect pattern that is controlled even if pressure is on. Otherwise, they're just going to default to what they know or what their pattern is to stay alive.

Yeah. And I think there's the patterns that's really important to understand because our perception of reality. So, say you have a change that you're trying to get your team to follow. And your reality of how you have proposed this change is not the same as everybody else's. Because the way our perceptions are formed, we have an unconscious part of our brain. 80% of the traffic in our brain is unconscious. So, we have a ton of thinking going on that we actually don't have access to. So, our perceptions are formed in that unconscious place. And it's by putting patterns together. So, for example, if I have lived experiences where I have felt dumb or unprepared. And those have been tied to super negative fear-based emotions.

Right.

And my boss comes in and says, we're going to do something completely different now. And I'm an expert. I'm a local expert in whatever the task was that I used to do. Right now, my body's going to dysregulate because I'm going to, I'm going to be afraid of, of my identity changing, my expertise changing. And so those perceptions in our brain our, you know, our whole past. And I think a lot of times leaders are addressing the what in the room in front of them, not recognizing that they need to go a step deeper to the why are people afraid, or what is the resistance to change, and how do I help lead them through it? Because a lot of times the way we're reacting in the moment right now has nothing to do with the moment. It has to do with how our brain is associating what's about to happen with what has happened in the past.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, when it comes to change, just to repeat your words, real change starts in the brain, right? It's got to be practical. And especially when you're under pressure, it's going to default. The brain is going to default to efficiency.

Yep.

It's not going to go with the vision and what we've planned and all of that stuff. So, even strong teams will probably avoid the decisions, delay the action, Not because they want to. They just default into what feels safer for them, right?

Right.

Those familiar patterns. And that's why strategy alone doesn't move anything, right? I mean, you have to have a whole process. So, you mentioned 2 things that really stood out also from conversations we've had, you and I. Clarity and celebration are non-negotiable. I love that. So, most leaders actually unfortunately don't treat them that way. They don't look at those 2 as non-negotiables. Why do those 2 things, again, clarity and celebration, why do those 2 matter so much, Lisa?

So, I think the clarity piece is absolutely critical because if I don't know what's expected of me, I will burn out. I, you know, you'll have some people who will be paralyzed to start and won't get anything done because they don't know what you're asking of them. Or you'll have people that'll be working, working, working, and it never seems like it's enough because we haven't actually visualized. And it's interesting because I'll ask leaders, okay, I see what your strategy is and your vision and what you're trying to do. So if you're doing it really, really well, what do I hear? And what do I see? And I would say that most times the leaders I'm working with cannot Articulate that. And so we use conceptual language versus concrete language. Then the person who's doing the work never knows if they're doing it right. I was doing an evaluation one time on a large grant project and it was about, it was an education grant and it was teaching inquiry learning for physics. So it was kindergarten all the way through 12th grade.

Okay.

And these teachers had gone to all this training and then I was doing the evaluation of the grant. So I was in their classrooms and got to see them in action. And there was a woman who was by far the best example of inquiry learning I'd ever seen. And I said to her, would you mind if I videotaped you? And she was like, oh, she's like, well, I don't know if I'm doing it right. And I was like, that is so sad because the leader should be in there not only saying you're doing it right, but celebrating and expanding her knowledge base to other people.

Yeah.

So the clarity is critical. And if you don't have clarity, you're dead from the start because then you wiggle in. And I'm sure there's leaders on here who they want to change and the response they get from their team is, well, we already do that. And when they say, well, we're already doing all of that, then you know your change is not clear because way too much wiggle room. And then I think the celebration piece, my doctoral work, I studied a leadership factor that grew out of some of the other literature. And the high expectations was one of the factors. And it broke into 2 distinct areas, like, are you a good, like, change agent, or are you a good manager?

Right.

And so some people are really good at keeping the lights on and, you know, getting everything to run on time. But as far as inspiring people and celebrating people, they were 2 separate factors. And so I talk a lot about celebration because we do, we do appreciation things for staff. You'll have a lunch or something.

Right.

But what you really want is celebration that's strategic, that's going to build collective efficacy. So, you know, collective efficacy is built in 4 ways. And the first is just do it, right? So you have to have that clarity of purpose where you say, this is what I want you to do. And the person tries it and it doesn't kill them. And they're like, oh, okay, maybe I could do this, right? So they develop a little sense of self. The second is vicarious experience. So giving them an opportunity to see and hear what you're talking about in other people. So again, it has to be clear. So if you have celebrations, you know, I might be like, oh, you're, you know, you did such an amazing job at XYZ. Can you present to the team just 5 minutes? You don't have to give us a dissertation. How did you do it?

Right.

The third is emotional arousal. And that's the idea of when we try something new, And it goes okay and we're not dead out of it. And we're like, oh, maybe I could do this, right? And we get a little jolt. And when nobody's around to give us that little dopamine hit to keep us energized, then we get tired and we fall back into comfortable habits. And then the 4th is peer persuasion, which is kind of, this is how we do it here. And so having more opportunities to have public celebrations of like, this is what excellence looks like. And now— you did that. And getting people engaged in talking about their work and tooting their own horn and having the chance to feel pride and a sense of accomplishment. We oftentimes don't give those kinds of opportunities to people, and then they're feeling overloaded and burned out, and they don't know if they're doing a good job. And it feels like every time they turn around, there's something else coming down the pike. It's not coherent. So yeah, that clarity and celebration is really— those are 2 really important building blocks.

Yeah. So, let's set— I think this is a good bridge to talk about your 8C framework. You've built that to help leaders translate change into action. At a high level, what does that framework actually— how does it help leaders? Like, what does it do?

Sure. So, the book's called Aspirations to Operations. And what it does is it helps them move from their idea or their theory of change and to operationalize that through 8 different C's.

Got it.

So the first C is culture, right? Because if you have a, if you have a nasty culture, you don't have trust in your culture, you've got other fish to fry. You've got to fix that. So it kind of gives some suggestions on how to build a sense of belonging and culture that from a neuroscience perspective reduces stress. Everybody feels a sense of belonging. They're walking in ready to engage. Then there's 3 planning C's. So there's clarity, which we just talked about. There's also coherence and cadence. So coherence is that idea of like, I've seen companies that are like, oh, we're going to put this new software system in, but there are certain features in that software system that duplicate other software systems that you use.

Right.

So now the person who's the expert at the old software system is like, what are we doing here? Or you're asking people to duplicate work. And then they're like, this guy doesn't even know what he's doing. So you got to have some of that coherence. And then the cadence is that everybody changes at different rates. So if you have— some people are early adopters, some people are a little bit resistant, they need to see that it works first, and some people are just afraid of change. So how do we think about a reasonable cadence? And a lot of times, I see leaders that go from like, here's where we are, to we're going to do something totally disruptive. But they don't give people the stepping stones along the way to help them figure out like, what's the first step to get me toward the desired state? So those are the planning C's and the foundation C's. And then there's 2 C's that are about engagement. One is coaching and one is collaboration. I see leaders, you know, a lot of times I'll hear leaders say, oh, my staff hates meetings. No, your staff hates dumb meetings, right? If you have dumb meetings, staff—

Ineffective, inefficient. Yes. Repetitive for no reason. We don't see the point. Absolutely.

Yeah. So people, if you're running good collaborative practices, good meetings, then people want to talk about their work and do that.

That's it. Yeah.

And then the coaching piece, you know, ways that you can use brain science to help you coach people more effectively. And then the last 2 Cs are about sustainability. And so they are that celebration and communication. And, you know, the idea of just because you said it doesn't mean people heard it.

Right.

You have to be consistent over time. And so when I work with organizations that say, we really want to make these changes, I start with some questions. And what I always am able to uncover is one of those Cs is missing.

Right.

We can kind of, because if you, you have to strategize each one of them to move to the human side of the system and to engage the people in the system to, to be excited about your change.

Yeah. Yeah. I really love this because it really addresses what happens after leadership alignment, you know, because reality is leadership will set the direction, but the system determines the outcome. And I like how you've structured that into the 8 Cs. I find it really, really great. And for those listeners, again, we'll be sharing in the link in the episode how to connect with Lisa and also how to get her book. I will also remind you at the end of the episode. But let me connect this back to something I see constantly. I always bring it back to the fact that leaders think the issue is we need better strategy. We need only better communication. What's actually happening is that the system, the people, everything, the foundation in the organization is just not trained to hold under pressure. So, what I unfortunately see, even strong leaders end up repeating the same conversations, seeing the same breakdowns, watching execution stall and stop. And this is exactly why pressure-proofing leadership is so key. Because once that leadership system is stable, then what you're talking about becomes possible. And I don't know how you feel about that. I really would love to know your take on this, like how pressure affects the 8C framework.

Well, I think the first part of the book is really About you have to be regulated as a leader, right? So, so I talk about the goal is really self-awareness, self-regulation, and self-control.

There you go.

Okay. I see. And I think that when you have leaders who are not pressure-proof, then they are not regulated and they are not in control. And the 8C requires thoughtful strategy and consistent execution. And if we have leaders that are not in the right brain space themselves, So I think really spending, you know, the first part of my book kind of goes through the brain science of some of this stuff and has some exercises for people to really take a step back and gain some of that self-awareness. Like, what is it that triggers stress in me? And not just what is it, but why?

Mm-hmm.

What is the underlying fear? Because once we have the underlying fear, we have control. So for example, when I was a kid, my parents were divorced, so my dad was always late. Spent a ton of time on the front porch.

Right. Oh gosh.

My little brain, when I was like 8 years old, assigned lateness with a lack of worth or love. You know, put those 2 things together. That was the association it made. Well, into my 20s and early 30s, before I really became self-aware of how perceptions are formed and how the brain works, if my husband was running late or if I was running late, I would get so angry or anxious it would ruin my evening for a while until I could get myself calmed down. So when we have leaders who are not self-aware and they are under pressure all the time and they are dealing with conflict all the time, they need to know their own underlying fears so that they can spend more self-control and be more strategic.

Absolutely. I couldn't have said it better. I mean, guess what? It's time for the rapid fire. And if you've listened to past episodes, I'm always Surprised going, oh gosh, it's the rapid fire already. I mean, time flies by when you're having interesting conversations. And we try, right? So, you ready for it?

Yeah.

These are just quick answers. First thing that comes to mind. So, here's the first one. What's one behavior that silently destroys execution?

Focusing on yourself as a leader versus focusing on what leader your staff needs you to be.

What's one thing leaders avoid that costs them the most?

They avoid conflict. They avoid getting at the root cause and really solving that problem and restoring trust.

Interesting. I totally agree. What's one shift that changes everything?

When you shift from the organizational lens to the human system lens. Everyone is happier, healthier, more successful, more fulfilled. And you build that balance of autonomy and accountability and efficiency and productivity. And it makes it a better place and more fulfilling to work there.

All right. I mean, amazing answers. Thank you so much. So, if you're listening to this and something is pretty much resonating, you know, you're capable of more. You know, you're not playing at the level you were built for. And it's not because you lack skill. It's because your brain is probably still running old patterns under pressure. I mean, I'm sure Lisa's book is awesome with the first 2 chapters. Now we know that you have those 2 chapters to help you get aligned. But this is really where everything starts. And I think people don't realize how important this is. I'd like to also share with you a free guide. If you're leading a team, I know most of you are team leaders here listening to this. And if you're feeling that pressure, you're feeling that pressure building in moments that actually really matters— decisions, conversations, high-stakes situations. And you know where this is? This is where we lose clarity because again, the brain gets hijacked in that moment. It's called pressure reset Scripts, right? So if you're a team leader, these are very useful prompts and resets that I use with leaders to bring them back to calm, clarity, and control in a few seconds. So these pressure reset scripts, you can use them before a meeting, during conflict, right? We talked about that. Or when you feel yourself pretty much slipping. You're going to see a QR code here on screen in order to download that Otherwise, you'll find the link in the description. I want to remind you to check the description as well for how to connect with Lisa and more info about her book, Aspirations to Operations: Leader's Guide to Make Transformations Stick. Don't we all need that right now? If you're enjoying the show, you want to listen more, please follow. And like and share with somebody that could really use this conversation, all the value we added for you today. And Lisa, thank you so much for coming and sharing your research, your knowledge, and your book with us. Any final words before we wrap up?

No, just thank you so much for having me. And I encourage people to really think about that real change starts in the brain. And the more we know about it, the more we can lead it.

I love that. You are just literally taking the words out of my mouth. Everyone else here listening to us or watching us, thank you for joining. Lead boldly, stay human, and turn every challenge into a gift.

Never forget that.

See you all next week. Lisa, thank you. Thank you.