The System Wasn’t Built for Me — So I Built My Own with Lesley Pinckney

There comes a moment in every leader's career when you look around and realize this place isn't built for me anymore. Not because you're not good enough, but because the system doesn't match who you've become. Today's episode is about what happens when you stop forcing yourself to fit and start building something that actually aligns With your values. I'm talking to someone who made that decision at the height of her career and didn't look back. By the end of this episode, you'll know how to recognize when you've outgrown a role or a system, why authenticity isn't optional anymore, how to navigate uncertainty without losing yourself, and why the next chapter of your career has to match your value. So stick around. This conversation hits home for a lot of us. A lot of people are actually waiting for it. So I'm really excited to, to get started on it. Welcome to the NeuroLeadership Edge, brain science for bold leaders ready to master their mind and own their voice. I'm your host, Claire Hayek, neuroleadership expert, ex-engineer, lifelong musician, and the founder of Mind Soul Purpose Team Building. My guest today is Leslie Pinckney, founder of The Big Idea Catalyst. She's a strategist and builder who has transformed brands from the inside out, from essence.com to Fortune 500 giants like Target, Nissan, Twitter, and US Bank. She's known for creating teams where people feel motivated, supported, and challenged to think bigger. After years in leadership roles across media, tech, and experiential marketing, Leslie stepped away from corporate America and built her own company on her terms in a way that reflects her values. She brings honesty, experience, and a very real point of view on leadership identity and the future of work. Leslie, welcome.

Wow, thank you. What an amazing introduction. Thank you.

Well, you know, your, your experience speaks for itself. I'm just introducing you, so congratulations on all the above. It's really exciting to have you with us. I think a lot of our listeners are excited about this one because a lot of us, you know, sometimes feel that way when we get to a certain level in our career. And, you know, we've pretty much outgrown the space we're at, right? So without further ado, let's dive right in.

Sure.

You've spent— Leslie, you pretty much spent your career stepping into roles where you were the first— first to build, first to lead, first to create something from scratch. Take me to that moment when you knew that the system you were in no longer fit. It was just not fitting. What really changed for you?

Oh my goodness. I think one of the first sort of inclinations that I sort of stumbled upon as I became a manager was that, and you hear this a lot, The skills that get you to management are not the skills that make you a good manager.

Yes.

And, you know, my personal brand before I became a manager was I was the first, the fastest, the, like, the first to get it done. I outworked everybody, first in the office, last to leave, like that kind of vibe. And then when I moved over to management, I really had to fight against the desire and the control that you have when you're just a sole contributor in an organization. And so that to me was the beginning of like, oh, huh, you know, I was great at being this and it got me to this, but now they want me to do a whole bunch of other different things here. And maybe I don't like these things as much as I like doing that.

Mm-hmm.

And so what? I have found is, is, is that, you know, when you're early in your career, you're actually a lot closer to the work. You may not be closer to corporate decision-making, but you're closer to the work. And as someone who has been a builder, that was a really hard thing for me to accept, was, is that the higher I got, the further I was away from the actual work.

Mm-hmm.

You know, like if you work in an agency, you're not actually pleasing clients. You're setting strategy, you're managing people, you're doing business development, you're cleaning up other decks, but you're not actually making things. You're making people better. But that's a very different thing than making things. And so at that point, when I switched from like employee to manager, that was sort of the beginning. And also I'm like an iconoclast and anarchist by nature. So like the idea that I was now becoming quote unquote the man, Was also a little unsettling for me and started making me question, like, what does this mean and where does this end? And I think those voices get louder over time in your career because I also think as things outside of your professional life change, for me it was having my daughter who's 9.

Mm-hmm.

You start to want to Live your whole life in all the aspects of your life, right? I don't want to be someone radically different at home in front of my daughter than I would be at work. And I want to make sure that the values that I live in my personal life, I can try to live in my professional life. And so it creates kind of a perfect storm for those that are willing to take it of self-reflection that I think ultimately leads you to determine. You know, am I one of those people that's going to get the gold watch at the end of my corporate career? Or am I going to—

Yes.

And I think for me, it was, you know, I want to try to do something else. I think the last election changed a lot about, I think, how people of color are seen in the workforce. And I wasn't interested in rehashing a conversation that has been put to bed by data and facts and experiences around the value of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging in companies. And so that was a pretty big, like, oh yeah, I'm not doing that. Like, I'm not gonna rehash this thing again. So maybe it's time for me to, like, build something where I'm not gonna have to rehash that or think about what opportunities, because it never starts with, I'm gonna build something.

Right.

Right.

Of course.

I can find the perfect unicorn job that allows me to do this and do that and still pays, you know, half a million dollars a year with bonus and options. And, you know, reality is that that's not going to happen. We see increasingly big corporations, which, you know, I think 10 years ago may have been more willing to take principled stances. They're out of the conversation completely. They have proven themselves to be We are first and foremost focused on our bottom line, and that's their job. Is whether or not that's right or wrong is a debate for another day. But, you know, the CEOs of big corporations, their job is to perform for shareholders. And so anytime you're in that system, your values, no matter what they be, are going to be bent or twisted in a way to support the goals of the place you're working at and you can hate it, but that's the reality. And so, you know, I think there's different ways that you can tackle it. Some people are like, look, I'm going to get my bag. I need to support my family. And I'm okay with maybe the gap between how I would choose to run this company and how my company is being run.

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's, um, that, that's a whole different conversation, I guess. But, uh, it's def— it's definitely not straightforward. And, uh, we're, I mean, I would really love to solve this. But I mean, it's so complex. There's so many factors involved. And I think a lot of people, even in power positions, probably feel misaligned. And like you said, they go against their values. It's all about decisions and what we're comfortable with, what we're able to endure, what we're not able to endure. And it's a personal decision. So I'm interested in what you did and how you turned it around, because I think a lot of people Whether, whether it's what's happening in the political landscape or any other challenge that actually shows up in our life, the minute, you know, our brain knows when we're misaligned, when things are not— we talk about the 3 axes, the brain, the heart, and the gut, and they have to be aligned for you to be coherent. And we all have the ability to feel when somebody's off, you know, whether we feel it in our gut, whether the passion is not there, that's in our heart, or whether we're stressing and being anxious about it in our brain. It's crazy. It's not not— it's not drama, it's data. It's like our body's talking to us the whole time.

We just have to listen, right?

Right. So, um, and, and it's basically the brain is trying to tell us, hey, it's time to shift. And a lot of us are paralyzed by fear or sabotage ourselves. And it just— again, our brain doesn't like change, is gonna withhold change. And so just want to keep us alive at that point, go, no, that's kind of like too risky, let's not do that. Just stay. But a lot of us are able to— if we are coherent and we're at that level when we're able to see things, we're able to take that next move and tell our brain, it's okay, I know you want to keep me alive, but I got this. Um, and this is when we take that next step. I mean, you've always been direct, honest, and real. I know that. And, you know, I've spoken to you before and it really shines through, which is wonderful. But you also mentioned how hard it became to show up that way in certain spaces. So how did authenticity shape the way And what happens when you can't bring that to the table? Like, how do you feel?

So, you know, I think for me, so much of my experiences professionally have been shaped by my personal identity. Obviously I'm Black. If you scoop that bracelet, you could see I'm also part of the LGBTQ community. And so when you're young and on the playground and you're getting bullied because of your race, Very early, the decision is put in front of you. Are you going to be one of the people that laughs along with the jokes made at you? Or are you going to be one of the people that says, no, this isn't right, or walk away? I'd love to sit here and be like, I was the person who was like, nope, I'm walking away when I was 5 and 6 and 7 when these things happened. I wasn't, you know, I, I very early on, I kind of went along to get along. And it wasn't until I really got to college that I was, that I started to sort of. see my complicitness in others' sort of behavior. And I think that was the beginning of my authentic journey because it just became obvious that if I wasn't gonna stand up for myself, I wasn't gonna bring my parents to work with me every day. So I'm gonna, I was gonna need to have somebody, you know, like I either needed to do it for myself or be prepared for. just a lifetime of acceptance of this, of that dynamic. And I— it just didn't seem tenable that I would live my life being complicit. Like, I don't even know what that would look like. And so, you know, my earliest professional iteration of myself, um, was very full of bravado. You know, I always had to try to be the smartest person in the room. And that was an authentic representation of me and my skills, but not an authentic representation of, of who I wanted to be. And I think as I've grown in my career, my authenticity is a big part of my personal brand. One, because I think we don't do enough talking about the harder fringes and parts of life. And I think the fact that I have struggled in the past and I didn't graduate from Cornell after going. And, you know, I've had all these moments in my life that people who just see me on LinkedIn would never even begin to fathom that I've experienced. And I always find that disconnect really interesting that like there's this idea that if you're successful, you've never really stumbled and even when you were introduced to the opposite, you know, exactly. It's still the opposite, right? But we don't talk about it.

Yeah.

I think in business we actually have the space to talk about it more. But when I think about the honest conversations I have with my women friends around things like menopause and child rearing and the patriarchy, like there's. all sorts of lack of authenticity in a lot of different spaces that I think prevent people from sharing their true selves. And it just, it doesn't seem to be beneficial to anyone. Like, who are we trying to keep this information from? Like, why not share your experience? Because, you know, people may dismiss it, but usually you get at least one head nod and people are like, oh. Either we're not so different or she sees me or, wow, I could do what she's doing because she, you know, like sparks of familiarity or the ability, the reflection, the ability to see yourself in others is so valuable.

And this is really interesting also when it comes to, you know, I'm going to talk about the brain when it comes to the brain, because when you're not yourself. This is fascinating. Your brain is working twice as hard. That's why it's exhausting not to be yourself.

Exactly.

And when— but when you lead from who you are and not who people expect you to be, right, you make those clearer decisions, you create trust faster, and people see you, people feel it. You know, don't— you can't fool people. You know, some people can be fooled, but many of us can't. And we might not know how to put our finger on it, but we might— something's off with this one. Not to judge, it's just like, it's not— I don't know, I just— either we're not getting along or something's off.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's, you know, so I, I think it's kind of like a cascade, right? Because I think people think, oh, I shouldn't make mistakes. And so therefore I'm, I'm not necessarily going to trust my gut because that might be a mistake. But like leadership, you're going to make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes.

Failure is part of it.

Absolutely. Failure is part of it. But I think when you are authentic to yourself, you can handle those mistakes much better because you know what, like I can look in the morning, every single mirror and 99.9% of the decisions that I made, even if they were wrong, I would make them again because they align with my personal and professional values.

Right.

And so that even when the mistake is bad and costly, I still sleep better than when I make the right decision, but it doesn't feel good because it's like when I say the right—

Yeah.

I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like, I make the right decision for, let's say, the business, but it doesn't necessarily sit with my values. I, that keeps me up at night way more. than the mistakes that I've made that feel like, okay, I would have no problem defending this decision in front of my daughter, in front of my mom, in front of my dad. Yeah. You know, like, and so—

But I mean, this, this brings us to the next question. So you said something that's true for so many of us and so many leaders out there. Uncertainty and anxiety are now part of daily life, you know? So, so here's my question to you. How do you navigate that? Especially after stepping out on your own, because I mean, you know, we're both entrepreneurs, right? We both have our companies. We both stepped out and decided to take on this, this big unknown thing called entrepreneurship, uh, with the passion driving and nothing else, and the belief that it's going to work. We know where we're heading. But I mean, how do you deal with it? How do you deal with the uncertainty? How do you deal with the anxiety? On a day-to-day basis, anything you can share that could help our listeners, because I'm sure a lot of people now listening going, oh yeah, tell me more.

Right. So I am like kind of like an old school purist in this way. You know, I have a therapist. I also have a business coach. And I also like will live and die by the program Positive Intelligence and their app. It keeps me grounded every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean. Those are the 3 things that I use the most because, you know, I think with high achievers in general, patience is usually not a virtue. It is not a strong suit of ours. We want to be there yesterday. And when you're starting a business and when you're an entrepreneur, it's really, really easy for you to like judge yourself. And you know this, like the judge, the saboteurs are at the ready.

Self-sabotage is so—

All the time.

A lot of space. Yeah, for sure.

And so that, that first lesson in positive intelligence, like catching the judge, has been invaluable for me. And, you know, I'd love to sit here and say that, oh, it's been, you know, all sunshine and roses. I mean, there are days where I wake up and I'm like, what have I done?

Right.

You know, but then I'm like, you know what, Leslie, you got this. Like, and because I'm doing positive intelligence, I know the tools. Like I do my PQ rep. I think about, you know, all of the success that I've had to date. And I talk myself off the ledge of like, well, why wouldn't I be successful? I've been successful at all these other things. And like, you know what, if I need to, like, I know how to work harder. If that's, you know, like I try and diagnose it and not stay in the, in the what ifs, but like between, you know, my personal therapist and my business coach. And then I'd say, so that's like the macro stuff on the micro stuff. And this doesn't work for everybody, but the hardest change for me leaving corporate America and being an entrepreneur, and those of you in corporate America know this, you're a slave to your Outlook calendar. Stuff gets put on there. You just show up, you go, you show up at the meeting, you do things, you know, like you're literally an automaton. If the calendar says it's where I need to be or what I need to do, that's what you do. And so when you're an entrepreneur, it's a job.

It's the job, right? You're not making the calls. So absolutely.

It's the job, but I think the difference when you're an entrepreneur is, is that you're navigating huge stretches of time when you don't have things on your calendar.

Absolutely. That's another uncertainty. Right.

And so that, that to me has been the biggest lesson for me that my coach taught me, which is she was like, you need to treat your calendar the same way that you were in corporate America. She's like, we did not grow up as an entrepreneur. So I'm very deliberate. Like if I have a deadline on Friday, I will schedule 2 hours to work on the Friday deadline on Monday, 30 minutes to review. Like my calendar looks crazier than it did when I was in corporate America because like I need to just make sure that I'm showing up where I need to be. And so I think those 2 things, the macro of like having the larger Like mental health support to like see and visualize myself being successful, I think is the big piece. But I think the habits and the day-to-day pieces are just as important because—

Absolutely.

When you don't, like those days where your calendar has a 4-hour gap in it, just breathe that negative thinking of like, oh, you know, I have a 4-hour gap. I should be getting a client. I should be talking to someone. You know what, if that 4-hour gap now says 1 hour, write 10 LinkedIn posts for me to bank, or 1 hour, call 3 new people to, you know, for business development, it doesn't seem as daunting. And so, you know, I mean, it's the same, start small, small steps.

And, you know, I mean, we, I'm sure maybe many entrepreneurs also listening to this can Everybody comes up with their own ways to cope, to do, to deal with it. And it's experience. It literally, it took me years to understand that, you know, that how to manage my calendar. I have, I have it color-coded. Like for me, it just needs to be colored because I'm visual. My brain works that way. Very right brain. And I need to see colors like, okay, I know the green is client, anything that's sales.

Right.

The yellow is internal. And man, the, you know, so I'm like, it's too much yellow, not enough green.

What's happening? Right, right.

Yeah. And, and, and sometimes, you know, some weeks it varies, but then you look at the month, you're like, oh, it's pretty balanced. So it's, I mean, and I love your example as well. And I think it's good to talk about these things, but it took me time to understand that. And yes, it took me a coach and please get a coach if you're out there. Wondering, get a coach. We all need coaches. And what I always say is the coach is that person that you're kind of like a, um, a can with a label. You can't read your own label. The coach can read— somebody else can read your label. So you need that coach. You need that person can read your label. So, uh, we all need it. Tony Robbins has a coach. Freaking everybody has a coach.

Exactly.

Athletes have coaches. It's the same way for entrepreneurs. Why wouldn't you have a coach? Leslie, this has been so interesting and time's flying, but I definitely want to get to the rapid fire. I have 3 questions for you, 30 seconds if we can. Okay, let's go for it. You ready?

Yep.

Okay. Give us maybe a book, a talk, a podcast, conference that changed how you lead.

Um, how I lead. Oh, A Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin. It's the story of, uh, Abraham Lincoln's rise and how he built his cabinet on a team of rivals. Um, it's the single best book on leadership you'll ever read. Hands down.

Nice. Nice. Okay. One daily practice that keeps you grounded.

I'm not gonna lie on, on camera and say that I do it every day, but 15 minutes of tai chi is usually how I like to start my day. Oh, wow.

Very cool. A hard truth about authenticity. What do we need to know?

Uh, people aren't going to like it all the time. Um, and if you're someone that doesn't like that, you know, needs to be liked all the time, then that's probably going to be a lot more challenging for you. See note 1 about the therapist. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a challenge.

You need to be comfortable with yourself. You need to be grounded. You need to be focused. And you definitely need to have enough mental fitness in order to be authentic, because otherwise you're just really just— you're looking for approval outside of you.

Correct.

You're not grounded.

Right.

Um, and this is not a judgment. It's just, it's just normal when you think about it. When somebody's aligned and coherent and sees their values, understand who they are, then authenticity is automatic. You're not even trying to be authentic.

Exactly.

Actually, when you try to be authentic, you're already like—

Right, right. I also think that like authenticity has kind of taken on this like brash and rudeness. It doesn't have to be that way.

No, no.

Ways that authenticity can show up. It can be nurturing. It can be, you know, it can be comforting. It can, you know, like, absolutely. Do you want to dispel that kind of Narrative, which seems to be getting increasingly attached to authenticity. There's a core to it, but I don't think that's necessarily true.

That's being harsh, honest, transparent to the point where you're just not— have no empathy and no— not enough emotional intelligence or positive intelligence for a while to be able to recognize, maybe put on that little filter, not to lie, But just to be a bit more sensitive towards maybe how somebody can feel about certain things. So being authentic is also saying, hey, I'm not really sure how to say this, and I really don't want to hurt your feelings, but I really feel that maybe I could be wrong. But da da da da da da, and it's bothering me, and I don't know how to deal with it. So that's being authentic, admitting that you don't know how to talk about it. Yep. It's that simple. It's not about being harsh, and I'm so glad you brought this up, Leslie, because. That's a good point. That's such a good point. There's a lot of people like, yeah, but that's like rude.

And no, no, no.

When you're being— when you're grounded, you're focused, you're clear-minded, you're a good leader inside and out, and you've worked on yourself, you cannot be rude. There's no way. Being authentic is not about that at all. But anyway, this has been really interesting. Anybody listening or watching us here, if you want tools to stay calm under pressure, to be clear-minded, please do scan the code you see here on the screen. Join the Mental Fitness Masterclass. It's basically ready for you. It's evergreen. You can watch it whenever you want. And I promise you, it's going to help you get through your leadership day to day. And if you're not watching a video, do check the comments and make sure that you look for that code. It's usually my Linktree link and it's got everything in there. Also includes a lot of freebies and resources you can download, including my book. And finally, please hit that follow and hit that subscribe. And if you find this episode helped you and you think of somebody that needs to hear this and need to listen to this episode, please do share because that's why we're here. That's why we're taking the time to do it because That's how you add value is by sharing. And also, if we're learning things, we've learned things, maybe we failed. If we're not sharing that with you, so what are we doing then? Right, Leslie? Right on that. Leslie, any final words before we wrap up here?

No, thank you so much for having me. For those people that are interested in learning more about what I do, you can find me on LinkedIn. If you want to learn about my musical pro activities, you can find me on Spotify. Also the website, The Big Idea Catalyst. And, um, thank you again for having me. This has Been great.

Love this. So please do check the comments as well for this information. And as always, lead boldly, stay human, and turn every challenge into a gift. We'll see you next week. Thanks so much, Leslie. Bye, everyone.