How to Get Hired With an Unusual Background

Well, hello, welcome. We are live. I'm Madeline Mann. I already see y'all saying hi in the chat before we even got started. I am so glad to see you here. Hello, Karen, Marcus, Rick, Svetlana, Claudia. It's so good to see quite a few also familiar names and faces here in the chat as well. So welcome, welcome. We are here to talk about how to get hired with an unusual background, with a unique background. And I'm interested to hear in the chat, what is your unique background? Have you pivoted several times in your career? Did you get one type of education and do another? Or have you, you know, had a lot of different jobs where it's almost that you can't even define what your skill set is because you have such a collage of amazing experiences? Let me know in the chat. what it means to you to have an unusual background. Because not all of us climbed a ladder that was very specific and that went— was completely linear and all that. Some of us have a unique background. And while that makes us a very dynamic professional, it can also make our job search more difficult. It can lead to us possibly landing fewer interviews. And also, when it comes down to it, We're afraid that we are losing offers to people who have just done what we are interviewing for, for longer or more consistently or with a competitor instead of our more interesting background. And so it's, it can be really challenging. But the good news is, is that I would say a really large portion of my clients fit into this bucket of there's something quite unusual about their experience. They, you know, they're changing careers. They took a bunch of time off for whatever reason. They have this big gap in their resume. Now they want to come back and they want to do something different, right? That is completely normal. And they still are triumphant. But it does take more work than someone with the straight path. There's no beating around the bush there. It is more challenging. That doesn't mean it's impossible. And one of the great things about today is that We're live. So every time I come on, I am here to answer your questions live. So as they come up, go ahead, put them in the chat, and I'm so happy to answer them. So let's see what we got going on. Held many various jobs, says Marcus. Um, Age Jawlowski says, um, a college followed up by 13 years of raising kids. And out of the workforce during it. Yes, that makes perfect sense. Held many various jobs. Yes. Companies nowadays want a very specific industry or software experience after multiple interviews. A lot of companies say we will be going with someone with experience that aligns more. That is exactly what I meant. Exactly. Companies expect you to have worked with their exact technology stack that they work with. You've worked with something similar, and you have to convince them. Don't get so caught up on this, right? So Larissa says, "So frustrating. How do I get that experience if no one gives it to me?" Ooh, that's a good question. Let's definitely cover that in today's session. How can I beat a more technical candidate in a final round interview? It'll face. It'll be the face to face with my boss, and I know that they are do. debating between me and that other person. Okay, um, okay, got it. So looks like we're kind of getting to the questions here. So perfect, perfect. I love that we're hitting this off. Um, so, uh, and then Catherine's here. Hello, Catherine, welcome from the UK. All right, so sure, actually, you know, we can start with Larissa's question. So how do I get experience if no one gives it to me. Okay, so this is the thing is a lot of people who they have a unique background, maybe there's some sort of a skill gap, what do they normally do? What is the first thing they do to fill that skill gap? They get education, they get certifications, they load up on that stuff. Now, I would say either education is either kind of a baseline qualification. So it just kind of brings you up to the level as everyone else. It won't necessarily get you ahead. And then from there, truly, the only reason to get education is to elevate you, is to not— because so many people view education as a line item on their resume, a line item on their LinkedIn profile. And sure, if it's, if it's a requirement of the job, then that's what it is. But if you're to get education beyond that, you should be doing that so you can learn the skill. So, so once you get that education, you need to then implement that. So how do you do that? So I have, I have to get very creative with my clients because this comes up a lot, is helping them to brainstorm ideas. I have this whole tool called a show, don't tell idea generator that comes with ideas of how can we do project-based work or pro bono work or whatnot that doesn't necessarily take hours and hours of your life, but can show your expertise in a bite-sized way. And so I've even introduced some of my clients to, uh, companies, to small companies where they're able to do pro bono work. You can do it on your own. Um, you could even do, you know, I'm not gonna get super detailed into this because we can go down a rabbit hole here, but I've even had, um, you know, even if you can't get in somewhere to do the actual work or whatnot, Or you can't do a personal project due to the nature of your profession. Even thought, thought projects and that kind of stuff of thinking through how you would do things can be really great. So there's so many different options there. But I think a lot of people stop because they just think education is the only way and a paved path in landing a job is the only way. So says, yes, education these days seems useless. I have a CPA and a master's in accounting, but no one will hire me. Larissa, I will say I have, uh, quite a few clients in accounting right now and things are going really well. Like, the hiring is moving. And I'm telling you that because there's hope, right? Whenever you see that there's movement, that there's progress other people are having, um, that's, that's proof that it can happen. So, um, so exactly. So, but I will say all my clients have those degrees and the, the CPA license and all that. So it's again like that exactly kind of brings it down that that's the level, that's the leveling kind of playing field, and then going above that, having the right strategy. Um, all right, so, uh, says, I come from a science background and later transitioned into employment counseling. Oh, how interesting. I now support clients who are exploring new career paths. So this session is also a great reminder to me to reflect on my own transferable skills and how I communicate my career story. That is so lovely. And what a, what a remarkable transition. I have 12 years in SaaS implementation and CSM, but in fleet telematics. How do I overcome the no healthcare experience barrier When the implementation process is transferable. Okay, so I have, I have several clients who are trying to break into healthcare, and I will say that they are quite difficult when it comes to the, the part of, oh, you don't have industry-specific experience. They are one of those industries that really like to see industry experience. Um, so I'll tell you some of the things that my client's been doing. So One of them, she works more on the data side, and she has been posting on LinkedIn about, you know, data analytics and healthcare. And she's been even doing some, some, some like research on her own and some data mapping on her own and has been posting about that. And literal VPs in healthcare are commenting on it saying, this is really insightful. Like, let's hop on a call. So it's been really interesting and it's just, she, she's going so hardcore into that is her next path. She's branded her LinkedIn profile that way. She just really integrates into conversation. She's a student of the industry. She's, she really speaks the language. And that's one of the things is that's the next best thing to having industry experience is saying, you don't even really have to train me that much. I'm already self-training. I'm already a participant in this industry. And so that can be really, uh, really helpful. I have 20 years of retail experience and an MBA, trying to get beyond retail and something more MBA level. Um, so Lindsay, I'm guessing— are you saying that you work in the retail industry, or you're working like, like, you know, you're managing retail stores and that kind of stuff? Because I don't know, you you know, there's lots of, there's lots of rules, uh, corporate rules beyond that. Um, but got it, thank you for telling me. Um, so Timmy says, I work in brokerage and I'm trying to become a registered investment advisor. Do you have any experience helping clients in this area? Uh, so I would say that, uh, you know, in order to become a registered investment advisor, like, there is some, some very, like, clear steps you'd want to follow first. I would say if you're trying to get coaching, you know, I would get registered first. And then if you're trying to, you know, possibly land a job at somewhere, or if you're just trying to get clients, we're not really someone who's like really helping people to get clients. But if you're trying to land jobs, once you get to that stage, yes, absolutely. We're absolutely ready to help. Yes, Lindsay says I'm either overqualified or underqualified For sure. Okay. So yeah, I would definitely say, you know, fashion, e-commerce, retail. It would be— that would be probably the best pivot. But also, I didn't hear what role you're targeting, Lindsay. What role are you targeting? Right. Having an MBA working in retail, that tells me zero context about what types of roles you're going for. And that's a huge thing. What I come across for a lot of people who are, um, have an unconventional background is a challenge. Their biggest challenge is often targeting. Is they'll say, well, I'm targeting this role and that role and this role and that role, and I'm kind of open to all of it because I can do all of it. And that's actually one of the biggest things that is keeping them stuck right now, because it's— because it seems like they're good at everything, everyone will assume you're great at nothing. How about a person who's been in academia and also in research in the clinical setting 20 years and now moving into neurotech industry? Um, any good tips on how to make transfer— transferability clear to the industry? Um, so I have a ton of clients who have transitioned out of academia and research. Um, it seems like there's some sort of mass exodus happening right now. Um, and the big thing there is kind of getting rid of some of your habits that come from being in academia. Uh, the way you communicate your experience, the terms you use to describe your work, all need to change, um, to more move towards what you're going towards next. So it's almost like you need to rephrase a lot of things you do, and then as well as you need to delete a lot from your resume. So I have something called the Glory Formula, which is essentially a formula that helps you to reposition your experience. And it works best for career changers because— and obviously it works great for, for people who aren't career changers or whatnot, or pivoters. But it works especially well for pivoters because it completely gets their mind on the future. If your future is exactly the same as your most recent job, the past, the Gloria formula, of course, can still help you, but it's not as dramatically transformational. So what it does is it, it helps you to build your resume backwards from the next opportunity. So in your case, it would be neurotech. So you wouldn't necessarily put all the details of what you did in your research. But you would have it framed in a way that is going to speak the language of the next company and the next industry you're targeting. So anyways, I'll— if you all go to standoutresume.com, you'll see I have like a free class that, that talks about this, this concept and, you know, all that. So I would say go to standoutresume.com. I think standoutresume.com/webinar. Um, we'll get you the free class. Okay. Uh, I have 2+ years of experience in project management and I've been trying to get a remote role, but it never works out. Automatically get filtered out on application. Um, got it. So yes, I would say, first of all, remote roles are the number one most competitive role you could go for. I would say open up to hybrid if at all possible. I know that's not always possible. Depending on our location or our able-bodied, uh, like how able-bodied we are, whatnot. But, uh, yes, so I would say, uh, but then also if you're targeting these roles, it really comes down to a matter of, uh, you know, constantly iterating on your application. Is this working? Is this not? I track a bunch of statistics on my clients. We have a whole dashboard. We're looking, you know, if this doesn't work for a couple of weeks, we then pivot. We help them write an entirely new resume, all that kind of stuff. Maybe we say, oh, maybe our leveling, your leveling is wrong. So we'll like change the leveling that they're targeting. You know, we, you know, we'll say, okay, well, let's take a look at the networking strategy. How, how is this working? We'll look at the targeting industry-wise. We'll look at the Has there been an increase in views on their LinkedIn profile? Right. You just have to check all the data points and just know that everything's an experiment. So the way your resume is this week, you can just start sending out a different version of that resume. Maybe your most recent job title needs to be translated to be something that is more obvious to the company. That's often something that is a big issue. You know, maybe there's, there's things like on your LinkedIn profile that if you change it, you can always change it back, right? So I would say really experimenting is going to be a huge thing for you. I have a BS in natural resource management. Y'all, everyone has such a diverse experience set. I love it. I love it. I love it. Um, I have natural experience in environmental education, public-facing, but now turning back to fieldwork. I'm volunteering to refresh But qualified. How do I showcase that? Okay, so I love that you're volunteering to stay refreshed. Okay, so here's the thing. This is why Andy is, is definitely moving in the right direction. So we, what we want to do is if there's ever any sort of gap or pivot in your resume, it's not that companies are, oh, you have a gap, oh, you have a pivot. You— I don't like you. No, it's just they're worried that they're going to get their money back from hiring you. They're saying, do we need to train you a lot more than other people? Are you not still sharp? These are very normal questions, right? So, you know, imagine if you're thinking of hiring me as your career coach and I say, well, I haven't actually helped anyone with a resume or a job search in 3 years. Still hire me. It's like you'd be like, okay, Madeline, like, are you still on the bleeding edge? Like, what's going on, right? So, so I would have to prove to you that I'm still active, that I'm, I'm, you know, maybe staying sharp in this way or another way. Uh, so what I like about that is, is that you're doing this. Now, what people tend to do is they have I just syndrome when they do volunteer work or pro bono work. They say, oh well, I just did that for a few hours. Or I just did that for my fiancée who, you know, she owns the company, or whatever it is, right? And you're, you're the first person to degrade your own experience. And so I wouldn't necessarily, unless it, unless it doesn't make sense otherwise, I wouldn't necessarily even say that the work you're doing is volunteer. Um, like, I would just State it as like, state it in your experience and state like the actual value you're adding. Because I mean, it's not like we list our salaries for our past work. Like if you're adding real value, you're adding real value. Let's not talk about how much you're being paid, if you're being paid, all that. All right. Okay. I'm seeing some love in the chat. It is my pleasure. Um, I worked in the UK newspaper for 18 years until the internet took over. Since then, I got nothing but telephone jobs and call centers. I got fired a lot. Customers just get to me. Oh, I know there's so many industries that have been completely disrupted. I had 7 years of Power BI and Fabric experience, and I'm from India. Can you suggest some remote opportunities? I would say like just go searching, right? LinkedIn now has an AI search form. So instead of— you don't have to, you know, no longer on LinkedIn have to write in exact keywords. So you can write in literally this exact phrase. These are like roles that require Power BI and Fabric experience, right? I would just even type that into LinkedIn's AI search and see what comes up. And that's actually a really good tip for a lot of you is to start trying out LinkedIn's AI search in a way where you're talking a little bit more about the skills and not necessarily a title. And what you'll end up finding a lot of the times is roles that are actually exactly what you're looking for, but they have weird titles. And you know what's great about a role that has a weird title? No one applies to them because people struggle to find them. And so that is a really wonderful hack for you guys to start like using the search in a little bit of a creative way. To see if, you know, like, for example, my background's in HR, so I could see myself, you know, putting, you know, employee experience in there and retention strategies and compensation or whatever, and putting it out there and see what pops out. And maybe it's some weird title like People Experience Officer or something like that. It's like, I wasn't searching for People Experience Officer, but there's 2 applications because no one could find it, right? Um, okay, so I have a background spanning economics, accounting, and international logistics, and I'm looking to transition to talent sourcing recruiting. Join, join recruiting. I love it. Um, can I best— how can I best friend my— sorry, how can I best frame my operational and financial data experience So hiring managers see it as a superpower for diagnostic talent rather than usual pivot. Okay, so this is, this is not the way we want to think about it. So we don't necessarily want to have our focus be, okay, I'm really great at operational and financial data experience. Let me emphasize that. Let me position that in the right way. That's not the mentality we want to have. Instead, you want to shift to What have I done that meets the top requirements for this role? So maybe for, you know, maybe there's an analytics side. Maybe you can like match your analytics that, you know, even, even working in accounting, you work very closely with often human resources teams, stuff like that. Have you had to hire for your teams? You know, did you do any sort of sourcing and outreach and you know, process management of the recruiting process. So I would, again, I would say go— you'd probably be another good person to either get some coaching with us or just go to the free resume revamp masterclass, which is at standoutresume.com, and focus a little bit more less on— we want to stop having autobiography syndrome where we're like, this is what's really interesting about my story. Let me tell my story. Instead, focus on them. If we start selling them things that they didn't ask for, they are not going to want us. I know this is a really hard lesson that a lot of people, that keeps a lot of people stuck. And it's, you're very, the reason why coaching is so important is because you're sitting in the bottle and you can't read the label. You are so close to your own experience that it's difficult to see it from a different perspective. So I'd really encourage you to go through the Glory Formula and whatnot and just kind of start seeing your, your experience from a new perspective. Great, great stuff. I have marketing experience in promotional products, business consulting, and senior living. I started my career as, as assistant. Can't even get a job as an assistant. I'm targeting marketing specialist roles. So I will say that starting your career is something, and now you can't get that role. Makes sense. Being overqualified is a really common reason to get rejected, and it's actually one of the toughest parts about pivoting and kind of changing careers is that you are— a lot of people will think, well, it's faster or easier to go into this next job if I go to the bottom. That'll be easier because I'll be perfectly qualified or I'll even be overqualified. But if you look at the transferable skills you have, I actually have this video where I do this graph that shows that essentially like the hard skills that you would need for, say, an assistant role, you have those, but then you also have possibly project management experience and management experience and leadership experience and communication experience, like all these experiences that happen from you being advanced in your career. that makes you way overqualified for some things. Now, of course, I know some assistant jobs are quite— can be quite advanced. It really depends on what you're assisting on. But you indicating that you did this early in your career does, does imply that it is, in fact, a more junior level role. I've been doing sales and account management for technology and SaaS, currently working as a medical assistant. Um, as a part-time job. Not sure how to make this work. Oh, um, so you've been doing sales account management and then you've also been working as a medical assistant. So I'm not sure what you mean by trying to make it work. Uh, it sounds like you actually have 2 jobs and they're both very viable careers. So I just want to commend you Uh, for a minute and say that's great. And so it's— I'm curious, like, which direction you're thinking about going in or, or, or what. But, um, huge shout out to you. I've, uh, positions where I am manager and then a worker, then a boss, then nothing. When I apply for a job, they're in disbelief that I'd want the job, wanting their position. Yes, I think this goes along with what I was saying about, about being overqualified. So if you do want a job that's below, you know, the level that you appear to be at your career, you're going to actually have to settle down a lot of your career experience. A lot of people don't tell it outright, but you need to calm down your experience so you don't appear overqualified. And it's kind of sobering because you're like, oof, man, I have to delete a lot of stuff off of my resume. But of course, The, the other solution is to go for things that are more appropriate to your level. Going for lower level jobs is not easier. It's actually a lot of times harder, especially because think about it, right? The lower the level of the job, the more people in the world can do it. So those jobs are more competitive. Now, at the same time, of course, there's fewer of the higher level jobs and the stakes are higher. They're paying you more, you have more influence on the organization. So there's alternate things there as well. But I'm saying like, The grass isn't always greener here. All right. Yay! Thank you for the valuable guidance. It's absolutely my pleasure. All right. So I let's see. I have a background in adult. Education, ESL, and financial education, acting, event production. How can I communicate my value for a flight attendant job? So I would say again, I would, I would do the Glory Formula. Okay, what are the top things that they are looking for? And I would not define yourself as an educator. I would not define yourself as an actor. I would not define yourself as an event production, I would take the elements, the strengths that you come from it. If you're event production, um, maybe you're really good. Maybe there's a hospitality angle there where you are super like with clients and customers, you really know how to make a great experience for them. Okay, I would focus on that. For acting, I would not say like I'm an actor. Maybe you'd be like, I, um, you know, I have to— like, it could be an element of communication and adapting to different conversations. But I would not present that as, because I'm an actor, I am good at this, right? It would just— you just give examples of when you had to deal with things, right? How, you know, how many auditions you've had to go into and in those situations had to adapt to basically like the possibly a, you know, a tense audition room or whatever it is, right? So I would say focus on what they're actually asking for. And I'll put, because I've been bringing up so much, I'll go ahead and put the standoutresume.com/webinar. Okay, so this will get you guys the free resume revamp masterclass. And let me go ahead and I'll put it, I just put in the chat, www.standoutresume.com/webinar. And that can get you the free resume optimization class that you can check out. How do you know when stating that you have a JD is an advantage or disadvantage? Okay, so, um, it's so funny because when I say JD, I think of the word job description because I talk about job descriptions all the time, but you mean like a law degree. Um, okay, so says Christina. So I will say I worry that you could be perceived as potentially overeducated, underqualified. A lot of companies don't necessarily want to pay for additional degrees, which is, I think, exactly the reason why you're asking. You're asking because you have this suspicion. And so I would say, you know, I— it could, it could be seen as valuable, such as like, I work in human resources. There's a lot of employment laws and all of that. So if there's maybe some certain element of compliance and whatnot, I would put it on there. Um, but I wouldn't— like, I, I had this one client, you know, you, you go through so much effort to go through law school that it feels so difficult to hide that part of you. And I'm sure some of you are feeling this in the chat, is, is I'm telling you no, Don't talk about how you've been an actor. Don't talk about how you've been in law school. And you're saying, oh my gosh, I worked so hard to do that. It's such a big part of me. And you just want me to just, you know, evaporate that away from my persona? And the answer is yes. And unfortunately, companies are looking for perfect fits. And the more color you give in a way that is off from that fit, The less likely you are to land a job. So, but, but still, I am not saying that you can't, that, that degree can't be useful. But I did have a client where I remember her LinkedIn headline said something like, you know, former lawyer and sales professional turned product manager. And I was like, oh my gosh, we have— and she was like, no, but that's what makes me so compelling is I have this law background with sales. And then makes me the best product manager. And I said, they don't care. They care if you're the best product manager. They're so distracted by all this other stuff. So that's, that's something you have to think about. All right. So here is a classic question that I get a lot because, because it's a good one. And it says, for resumes, I'm not able to quantify my contribution. What do you suggest doing in place of numbers? So I have yet to come across a client where I could not quantify their contributions. And I think one of the reasons why people get stuck on this is, first of all, well, I have a tool. Like, when you join my program, there's an actual tool that will quantify it for you, so you actually don't even have to think about it. Um, but also, um, I have all this, uh, and I also even have If you have my book Reverse the Search, I would just pop it to— let's see, what page is it at? There's also like a whole chart in here that helps you to quantify your resume because this is such a challenge. Let me see what page it's on. Okay, I think it's maybe in the 80s. Oh yeah, here it is, page 82 in Reverse the Search. So you can grab this from your local library or whatever. Um, but that will help you a lot. And, um, I'm even just reading the thing right now. So there's so many different ways that you can quantify, right? So many of us immediately go to revenue and money, but there's so many other ways. It could be length of time, such as, um, it was a 9-month-long project, or a frequency, right? Well, how, how many inquiries did you respond to a day? Well, Madeline, I don't have that exact detail. Okay, was it more than 10? Well, yes. Was it more than 100? Probably not. Okay, was it at least 50? Yeah, it was at least 50. Okay, you do that 5 days a week, multiply it across a month, blah blah, right? Okay, now you have your number of inquiries you were fielding a month of at least this number. So things like that, like there's a lot of ways to think through this in a way where you are showing the scale, the difference of things. So I would, I would check that out. Um, just to see some other ideas. All right. I have a background with lots of temporary jobs, customer support, sales, back office, warehouse stores, and of course, a lot of gaps. So I've been avoiding LinkedIn. Um, I search for work, but there— but I don't advertise my work experience online because of this. Yes. So, um, you know, I, I think that, uh, your work experience, your work experience. Um, you can also bunch some of your— if you kind of put yourself as an independent contractor who's like taking on clients or whatnot, you could bunch it together as well. As I would say that I've been employed in— I don't know, I did a video on this, but I think I've been, I've been employed by upwards of 30 different employers and, and different roles. It's not just employers, but also different roles and all that. And less than half of those appear on my LinkedIn profile. And if you go to my LinkedIn profile, what you'll see is a very linear HR career. But you don't see my work in research. You don't see my work in market research as well. And you don't see a lot of the other jobs that I did here and there and in between that lead to a less cohesive narrative. So just know that you should never add anything on your resume that you didn't actually do, but you can absolutely take things away. So if you want to kind of start your, your job history more recently or whatnot, that can sometimes be a good way to do it. Ingrid says if someone has a nonlinear background but is now trying to move into more clearly defined direction, is it better to explain the career as progression towards that direction or to emphasize the transferable skills from each previous environment? How do you avoid looking like you're constantly changing fields? How I would love to just dive into your experience myself, because truly, I mean, the answer to this question, it should be unique to you. That's something I work with my clients on is I'll say, Okay, tell me how you would tell this career story. They tell it to me and go, okay, well, I'll tell it back to you. And, and then they go, oh, it sounds so much more smoothed over. So it really depends on your situation. But let me see how much I can help in this moment. So, so is it better to explain the career as a progression towards that direction or emphasize the transferable skills from each? So I think it's, it's both and neither at the same time. So here's, here's kind of how I'm thinking about it. So you, you, when you are doing like your tell me about yourself answer, it is not important to necessarily go role by role and explain exactly what you did. If you do go role by role, you do want to point to what I did there. And I want you to say the sentence in your head, what I, what I did there that is most relevant to you, you being the company you're talking to, is They don't want— they don't care about anything else but what you did that was most relevant to them. Okay, so that's the first thing. Um, and yes, it is great to tie a bow on, and this is why, like, coming up with an overarching idea of why it all makes sense is great. Though I will say, people who focus a little too much on that, it gets into autobiography syndrome where they, they mistake that a company cares about your story. A company doesn't actually care about your story. They do care that things are logical such as the reason you left your company is logical and all that kind of stuff. And they're feeling like you actually know that you want this next role because they're scared that you're going to take it and not like it. So that all matters. But otherwise, they just want a very succinct explanation as to why this is next step and why you're very good at it. And they don't necessarily need a ton of details. All right. Yes, I see Emily say estimate your contribution. I think this was in reference to quantifying your experience, and that's exactly right. And Ruth says thank you so much. Oh my gosh, my pleasure, Ruth. Okay, now I'm planning on to change jobs within the next few months. Would your program be suitable for a 6-month job search? Rather than just a three-month period, yes, I would say talk to our team. That is definitely something that we're thinking about now. Here's the thing is, I would say like if if you were just going to because our team actually actively is applying for you during that time. Now we can kind of like push that off a little bit, but we're working for you during this time. So we really only want to work with clients who are ready to go, who want to land a job soon because. I'm in there, my other coaches are in there, our whole team is in there. We are actively getting things ready for you. So if you're going to take the spot of someone else in the program and you're not really in it to make it happen and actually land a role in a timely manner, I would say maybe it's not the best fit at this moment. It's not that you have to, from the moment you join the program, you have to be hitting the ground running super, super fast, but We do expect that you are looking for a job if you're joining our program, not necessarily with this kind of like long, long— but yeah, sometimes job searches take longer. And I will say a lot of people don't tend to factor in the extra time that people need to job search, such as if you want to land a job by next year, by 2027, you should be in the full throes of coaching right now. Like, the hiring market is actually hot right now. We're getting a lot of traction. This is the time. And if you're not job searching right now, getting coaching right now, your start date's likely going to be, you know, beyond in 2027. So just a heads up to everyone who is really kind of planning, because I think sometimes it can feel like, I've got lots of time. Okay, let's see. Um, I'm a senior in my field and I dread being a manager, but that is the next level in my career. Can you suggest what self-training learning resources I can do to prepare for it? Um, so what's going to be absolutely pivotal for you And let me, let me back up and state this first. There are 2 leaps in your career that are the most challenging. One is individual contributor to manager, and the second one is director to VP. Both of those have larger chasms than other leaps. You, if you are going to move up to manager, it's going to be extremely difficult to do that outside of an organization you work with now. When I said it's extremely difficult, I don't want to be, you know, over the top here. You need to manage people. Um, yes, you can take classes and all of that, but they're going to want to see that you actually have experience managing people. Now, the best way to do that, of course, is to get direct reports. The second best way to do that is to manage by influence, to manage contractors, to, you know, project manage, uh, those can all be viewed as even if you don't have a straight line, uh, reporting structure, it could be more of a dotted line or that you're, you're leading by influence. You can use that to persuade teams of actually, I do have management experience. And actually it was even more challenging because they didn't directly report to me and I still had to get them to deliver results and I had to have crucial conversations with them and all that kind of stuff. All right. So Rich says, 20+ years as a radio producer, laid off. Resume shows operational skills, MS in instructional design last year, working on a PHR cert, struggling to find work, can't get anyone to see past radio. Yes, yes, I would say Especially if you are looking more on the— like, it looks like you have an MS in instructional design. You said last year. Okay, so what, what projects did you do that you designed instructional materials and trainings? Um, and then why don't you go ahead and run a training? Invite people on this chat right now. Do it for free. Have 6 people show up. The, the interviewer doesn't even know how many people were there. Run a training for them. Ask for a survey afterwards of how they think you did. Cite that on your resume, right? You build this experience yourself. And, and is that legitimate experience? Yes, because you, you did the, the effort of building, uh, you know, a facilitation. You, you facilitated it. You got feedback. That is real-world value. So like, that's how we erase radio is we start building other experiences. All right. Are titles important? I've had titles including generalist, manager, director, and now back to manager all in the same field. So hurt me when trying to go back to director title again. No, I think director is the perfect next step. I personally went from director to senior manager and all that kind of stuff in my career because companies have different leveling. They have different sizes. Do you remember earlier? Do you remember earlier what I said? You know, that, that it's, it's individual contributor to manager is tough and then director to VP. But you hovering between manager, director, manager, director, I didn't name that as a difficult transition. So that is actually typically seen as those roles having a lot of overlap and having a lot of gray area. Excuse me. All right, I'm seeing some love in the chats. It's helpful. Perfect. Oh yay, I have the book and I love it, but trying to quantify things from over a decade ago feels like manufacturing information. I just can't remember. Totally. And you know, so there's a— there's 2 things I'll say to this. First of all, We have to do some memory activation. We have to really scrounge to hopefully find some evidence there. Um, and one of the interesting things is that when you start to think about something, right? So I— this is super important in your job search if you're having some memory issues, is like get a document out, try to brainstorm all the things you've done, try to find some things that trigger your memory. And then while you're not working on your job search your, your mind will automatically continue working on that issue. It's amazing. I mean, this is true across your entire life, but if you give your, your brain a problem and you already try to solve it, but maybe you don't completely solve it in that moment, it will continue trying to solve it. So anyways, that gets your brain moving. And second of all, you know, maybe you don't come up with anything, but it's now you realize, why haven't I been keeping a professional log of everything I've accomplished? At every job I've ever had, there's always been a professional log, and I'm updating it like every few days. Every time something happens in my job where I contribute to something, someone says I did something good. Every time we have new statistics on what's happening in the organization, I'm recording that. So it's just a lesson to ourselves to just keep, keep better data. I have always worked in HR. and, uh, and admin work and payroll. I no longer, um, want to do payroll, just the HR admin work. How do I pivot to only HR work? I keep getting reached out on LinkedIn for payroll. Delete everything that says payroll on your profile, because if you're doing both, just focus on HR. There you go. This is not about giving them a summary of everything you are doing. It's about giving them the information they need to know to put you into the role that you were targeting. I'm a strong exact fit for a role but keep getting rejected for months, says Rick. I've been contacted— I've contacted LinkedIn connections with similar experience and recruiter that worked there, but no response. What am I missing? Um, so the— okay, so no response. Uh, it, it would really come down to, you know, what essentially there's like, there's several different things, of course. Um, when it comes to an application, uh, there's 3 things. So first is timing. So possibly it could just be your timing's off. Okay, that happens. Uh, they already filled it, they already filled it internally, your timing was off. Second is it's not being seen, right? Maybe there, your application got buried. So you are the perfect fit, but it got buried. Or third, and it could also be all 3, the third is your application isn't as good as you think it is. So I would say, like, really try to nail in all 3 and narrow in there. All right. Um, I have over 7 years across finance, investments, and data analytics within insurance, but now trying to pivot to economic consulting. What do you advise to land a role and also avoid a big pay cut? Okay, so the best way to avoid a big pay cut is to choose a profession that pays you more. I think it's unrealistic to map your current income, your current salary to a different career and use your current salary as a data point for the new career. It's a different, it's a different data set. If you, if it was the same career, then that is a data point. If you've been paid this before, expecting to be paid more is, is reasonable because that is a data point that you, that people will pay for that expertise. I would map completely. You have to do your research. And this is something that I just want to emphasize to everyone. is remember, a job is to make money first and foremost. I'm very, very of the mind that you should choose something that lights you up, that plays to your strengths and your values for sure. But it first needs to pay you well. And so I would say any, any leap, any change you're deciding to make, start first with how much money am I going to make? And does that work well for the lifestyle and the budget I want to have for my life? And also match it to the hours you're expected to work because Just because it maybe pays more than what you're getting paid now does not mean that necessarily that is not expensive money where you're paying very a lot with, with your time and your effort and your sanity. Um, so I would really focus on that. All right. So I have worked in higher education for about 10 years and I want to pivot to sports industry. How can I make my transferable skills more relevant? So I just had a client who went through, who was pivoting into sports. And it was one of the most phenomenal success stories. She ultimately landed a job for the FIFA World Cup. And also, like, when she was deciding between what to do, I mean, she had interviews and offers from NASCAR and Um, you know, teams in the NFL and like all this kind of stuff. So it was, it was phenomenal. And the secret for her was networking. I know, I know. And she, when everyone would ask her like, what, what did you say? How did you get all these top people to talk to you in the sporting industry? And she was like, I just use Madeline's templates. I have like this whole, I have this, I have this platform that built out where it's, it's, it's intelligent where it's like, okay, who you're reaching out to. Do you know them or not know them? Okay. Are they a hiring manager or an employee or recruiter? Okay. Which one? Okay. Now, of those people, like, are you going to send them a message or you're going to send them an email? Okay. All right. Out of all these things, here's what you say. And then it drafts it for you. So she just did that a bunch and she was really open to the conversations. And I'll have to— I don't know. I don't know that we have her testimonial up. She came onto one of our lives and she shared her story. And I think I even integrated it to one of my YouTube videos recently. So I'll have to post her experience so you can see it. But yes, I would say that that's going to be a huge part of your, of your targeting. Does age factor affect job hunting? I had over 13 years of experience in education and as associate professor and now entered data analytics and Power BI. Wonderful. Yes. I've had a lot of clients make a similar transition. Um, and, uh, and does, does age factor? I mean, so ageism is real, but I have a lot of clients over the age of 50, and they're getting just as many interviews as, as people under 50. Uh, of course, it's because I'm coaching them pretty closely, and I'm telling them to not you know, focus on, oh, I have lots of wisdom. I— my wisdom is going to be my biggest asset. Like, don't say that. Companies do not want to hear that. That's not the currency of today's job market. So I'd focus more on you being really nimble and someone who, who learns very quickly and is eager to contribute. Okay. So I'm an IT consultant with a Big 4 in Africa and going to Germany for a fellowship with a pharmaceutical company. I have no prior experience in pharma. Any advice on articulating my transferable skills? So you're, you're, you're going to, to Germany for a fellowship. So it sounds like you've already got locked in. Um, and so I'm not sure exactly, like, are you— who are you trying to sell your experience to? Someone else? I'm not sure exactly. It sounds like, you know, you're in. And I would also just have some, maybe some informational interviews once you're in. that fellowship to get some advice of like, hey, here's my background. How can I position myself best for a role after this? I really get that feedback. All right. I'm seeing some love in the chat, some thank yous. I'm so glad to see all this. How do we get— how does your program work? Is it group or private coaching? Okay. So we have both components. Everyone who comes on, you get one-on-one coaching. I also do group calls, uh, every week as well, uh, so it's a good time to like do workshops and meet other people and all that. But yes, that we also— you get assigned a coach, um, we work through everything with you, your resume, your LinkedIn, uh, help— we, we put in applications for you, we coach you through— as soon as you get interviews, we coach you through, okay, here's how you're going to prepare, all right, let me go over your answers, you know, just basically take takes the stress out of it so that, you know, every single action you do in the job search is extremely focused. Here, I'll go ahead and put in the chat. The URL is really easy. It's just madelman.com/coaching. And you can hop on a call with our team right now until mid-October. I'll have to get the exact date. We're actually doing our early Black Friday sale. So coaching at a significant discount, it will never be this low, or it won't ever be lower than what it is now. So I just put that in the chat. So I would say now between mid-October, definitely if you were planning on getting coaching, I would say now is the time to sign up so you can get it for, uh, for the best possible deal. Um, and it's also just a really good time of year to, to jive in on this. All right. Um, that this topic is really reframing. Talk about how to maneuver a difficult question using reframing tips or mindset. I get nervous and should be able to pivot these questions. Interesting. Okay. So, um, I have a current client right now. She is— she went from working in, um, in schools. She's, you know, as an educator and all that to now going for customer success roles. I wish I could play for you guys her interviews. Of course, those are highly confidential and all of that. But the way that she paints her experience, like she talks about her students as customers, which if you don't realize, schools are businesses. You pay, you're the customer of that business and they give you a degree at the end, but it is a business. So she really repositioned the way she talks about everything and really how she built out the customer success of of that, uh, of those schools. And it was methodical, right? She did go through the Glory Formula. She had to reprogram her mind and the way she talks, and it was really challenging. Her and I have been going back and forth a lot on her interview answers and her resume and all that. But she's— in the past like month or so that she's been in the program with us, she's gotten 9 interviews as a career changer. Like a lot of people are thinking, oh, you know, you know, is what's happening in this job market? I mean, she's getting all the interviews, right? And so, so, and, and so that's a huge part is being able to really think very deeply. And, and it's, I just want to confirm to you, it is tough. It is really tough to translate it. Um, uh, thank you. I love following you. Recently had an interview and they sent me your interview tips to help me Prep. Ah, it was an easy way to connect to the interview. That makes me so happy. Someone told me that a company told them once, hey, use the STAR method to answer interview questions. And then the company sent them my video where in the video I say, I say the STAR method is dumb. Don't use the STAR method, which If you actually watch the whole video, I basically say that 4 steps, S-T-A-R, is way too many steps. And that actually when companies are asking for the STAR method, they're actually asking for 3 steps, which is context, action, result. And then if you even read, like for example, Amazon is one of the companies that asks for STAR method. But then if you read their documentation, they specifically say that they want context, action, result. They don't actually want the first 2 steps. Anyways, so that is, that is funny. I'm so glad that they're sharing that content and that it's helpful. Do we put all of our job history on LinkedIn or just the relevant or just the relevant stuff on the resume? So the good news about LinkedIn is that it, it in some ways more is more. I just came back from New York City. LinkedIn flew me in for their Talent Connect Summit to cover that. That event. And if you see my posts about it, please hit a like on those because I want to show LinkedIn that I can get good engagement on their promoted posts. But basically, LinkedIn, the way LinkedIn has been evolving is they are using a lot more AI to crawl profiles and get a better holistic view. Of candidates. So as long as all the information is relevant towards the next role you're going towards, not— it's not like telling you about stuff in the past you've done that's not related to what you want to do in the future. As long as it's relevant, you can put a ton on there. You don't necessarily have to curate it to be super, super concise so that you're giving LinkedIn these tools all like a lot to crawl. So that can be good. But you don't have to put— it doesn't have to be extensive, such as like I said, I've deleted a lot of my earlier roles. Off my LinkedIn because it's not—it wasn't helping tell the story that I am an excellent HR leader, job market expert—all those things. Ah, amazing, amazing! Lots of nice comments in the chat. It is so, so good to be here with you all. So also let me know in the chat any other. Topics you'd like me to do for these live sessions as well as I have a free masterclass coming up in a few weeks. It starts October 18th and goes for 5 days. I mentioned that I was at the LinkedIn Talent Connect Summit and it is a, it is a conference for recruiters and talent acquisition professionals. But the reason why it's such a good conference is you just reverse engineer all the things they're telling them of like, here's how you find talent. Here's what talent's doing now. Here's, here's how you find the best ones and you reverse engineer that for the job search. And it gets job seekers way better results because you know what the recruiters are thinking. So anyways, I'm going to do a 5-day masterclass that's going to dive into how to land more interviews, how to then ace those interviews, how to then convert those final rounds into offers, all of that, how to get a planned specifically for you, for your unique experience. I'm so used to working with people with these quite unique backgrounds. And so if you want to join us, I really— it's— I only do it about twice a year. And of course, there's not going to be another opportunity to do this again this year. So let me put it in the chat. Let me— oops, that's not it. This will be— Let's see. Here we go. So selfmadeway.com/masterclass, and I'll go ahead and put that in the chat. Do do do do do. And let me get that in there. Here we go. So I really hope you will be able to make it. Also, be sure to put a Wi-Fi high five in the chat. This is always so much fun. Karuli Karuli says, dying to be in the upcoming masterclass. I watched the last one live. Watch the last one live and want to watch again. Yes. Okay, perfect. And it always does evolve. Like, I'm constantly updating these classes because the job market is constantly evolving. And so my live classes are always— there's always something fresh. And this, this LinkedIn conference really opened my eyes to a lot of ways that talent is evolving, the way recruiting is evolving. And, um, I agree, the STAR interview method is not giving me a good picture of my interviewee. Uh, I love that. Okay, thank you so much for coming on. I'll give you all a Wi-Fi high five, and I'll see you back next time. And be sure to register for that masterclass, uh, at— and I just put the link in the chat so you can grab it.