Gabe Macias on Smart Work vs. Hard Work, Advice for Players and Trainers, Business Advice, and More

Foreign. Welcome to the visionary Battle Trading Podcast. Appreciate you guys for tuning in today. Listening, Apple Podcast, Spotify, SoundCloud, wherever else you listen. And then everybody who's watching on YouTube right now, everybody watching can see. I've got a guest on today, my guy, Gabe Macias of Game Time Elite Training, One of the bigger accounts on Instagram when it comes to basketball training. And for me personally, very, very influential and one of the. One of the guys who I really think is doing things the right way and someone that I learned a lot from. Right what. Probably one of my best followers, right? I don't follow a ton of people on my. On my basketball stuff, but I'm seeing Gabe on there every single day, and it's always quality stuff. So, you know, we had kind of. Actually, you guys who have listened, I believe it was my Q and A episode probably two or three weeks ago. And I had mentioned that Gabe posted something back in, like, man, it was a while ago, probably March or April, just about kind of taking a step forward without necessarily knowing what the result is going to be. Kind of betting on yourself a little bit. And I had a question that somebody asked me, like, hey, what's the best advice you've gotten from a trainer or from a coach? And that was. That was the first thing I thought of because that's always kind of been, you know, that's one area where I certainly needed that. And that message to me really, really did a lot. So, again, that's why I say one of the better followers for me on Instagram. And I'm really excited to be able to kind of pick his brain a little bit today. And I know that he's going to bring a lot of value to you guys as well. So that's my intro. Gabe, Ms. C.S. gabe, I appreciate you coming on the show.

Yeah, man, thank you. I appreciate you for having me on, man. It's honestly, like, one of the things that I love doing most or one of the things I love most about training is building relationships with people and being able to influence and inspire people. And it's great, you know, to actually meet some of those people, you know, in person that follow me on social media. And that's. That's. That's awesome, man. I appreciate, you know, you following me and, you know, supporting me. It's great. And I'm excited to talk today.

Yeah, absolutely, man. So kind of just a little bit of a background on you. How did you get started as a trainer? What's kind of been your progression forward? You could even Start with, like, maybe how your playing days affected where you are now. I know for me, that's kind of something that I always go back to, but what's your bet? What's been your journey to the point you're at now?

Yeah. So, you know, I've been playing basketball since I was about in fifth grade, and I was in love with the game, and I'd always be out in the backyard, you know, working myself out. And I was super motivated, you know, my goal was to play college basketball and, you know, and hopefully one day, you know, go play professionally. And I would literally bust my butt every single day going, you know, two to three workouts, pretty much seven days a week, you know, and as I started doing that, you know, I had some people tell me, like, yo, you might need to, you know, relax a little bit. You know, I know that you're trying to get better, but that's a lot on your body and blah, blah, you know, I never really listened, but I was always trying to work out kids on my team, you know, some of my teammates and my friends, we would always be working out in the backyard. I trained them, you know, they trained with me, you know, and put them through some workouts and stuff. But as I got into high school, my freshman year, I ended up dislocating my kneecap right before the season started. And so it took a big hit on me. I was on varsity, and I was expecting to start, but then that happened right before season. So it sidelined me for a while. I ended up coming back. I only played, like 10 games my freshman year. Didn't play too much. Come back my sophomore year on varsity, you know, played a lot. It was one of my better high school seasons. Played really well. Then I get into my junior year right before junior year happens, I end up dislocating my kneecap again. So it sidelined me for a little while again. And, you know, so junior season went on. You know, I had actually another good season. And then going into my senior year, I had a couple, you know, D3 offers and a couple NAI offers. You know, I was really excited for my senior year. And then a little bit into the season, I ended up spraining my acl. And so it sidelined me for a little while longer. And the doctor told me probably about, like, gonna need at least like, two months, you know, a month and a half of recovery time. And I started honestly feeling good about after a month, and I said, fuck it, you know. Oh, excuse me. Sorry. Excuse my language.

Yeah, no, don't okay, cool. Yeah, no, you're good.

So I said. So I said, screw it, you know, I'm gonna just come back. I'm feeling good, and I probably, you know, I did, you know, come back way too soon. And I ended up playing maybe like five more games before I again ended up dislocating my kneecap and then fracturing my tibia. So it pretty much sidelined me for the rest of my senior season. And all the schools that were talking to me is mostly D3s, got a couple of NI's, but the D3, you know, you don't. They don't offer you athletic scholarships, and you're not able to redshirt there, you know, so they pretty much pulled in. They probably said, you know, just go. Just go, juco. We'll keep an eye on you and whatnot. And so I ended up going juco and had a red shirt my freshman year and just to get healthy from the previous injury my senior year, and then started, you know, practicing with the team again, started moving, getting ready to play the next upcoming season. And in the summer before the next season, I ended up tearing my meniscus so that, again, you know, signed on me for some time. And I was really just thinking about it, man. Like, just all the battles and how hard it is to recover and come back to full strength and at the juco level. Juco level is no joke. You know, a lot of people think it's. It's. It's the easiest level of college basketball. It is definitely not. There was a lot of grown men on my team, dudes who were. I was 18 years old coming in. Dudes were 24, 25, 26. Oh, yeah, D1 kickbacks, you know, so it was. It was. It was legit, man. And I was just looking at it like, damn, man. Like, it's going to take me a long time. I'm probably going to sit out the whole next season, and I'm going to be, you know, two years into college, and I'm barely going to be playing my first season. And I was like, I don't know if I really want to do that. And at the time, actually kind of running it back a little bit. My junior year of high school, my dad was running a little club program, and, you know, he asked me to help out. So I'd help him out, you know, coach him and help him out and coach and whatnot. And a few kids, you know, asked me to. To train them. And so I started off training a couple kids, you know, they were Getting better. You know, they were telling their friends and whatnot. And I had a few more kids, you know, come up to me. And so I had a little group of like maybe five, six kids that I was training throughout high school. And so I was training them, helping my dad coach and whatnot. And once, you know, I ended up getting hurt in college, I was like, you know what? I'm going to just really try to dive into this. I love this. You know, I was really inspired at the time by Devin Williams. Devin in the lab.

Oh, yeah.

So I was super inspired by him. And I was like, you know what, dude? You know, he's. He's a great trainer. He does this, you know, full time. And I want to, you know, maybe pursue this one day. So I decided to dive in heavily after I was done playing and diving heavily into that and started training more kids. And so as I started doing it, you know, it. More and more kids came, and that's pretty much, you know, how I got started.

Gotcha. Yeah, no, it's, it's. It's funny you mentioned the, the juco, because I remember when I was so my year, I took, I, I, my. Without going too far into it, my senior year of high school, had a couple of Division 3 offers. Ended up, like, some stuff went crazy in like, July before my freshman year. So I ended up not going to any of those schools, just taking the year off and just training still. And then that next year, there was a couple of jucos that I, that I visited. Uh, and I remember there was one of them and like, there was like three dudes in the team who were like 27, 28 years old. I was like, yeah, this is, this is. We are not in high school anymore. And it's, it's just. I think you're 100% right. Like, people don't understand, like, how can. Even at. At. At the Division 3 level, too. Like, these guys, like, they, they recruit, like, they're, they have a board of guys that they want and they've got a list of a lot of dudes, and they'll cut, they'll cut you off that list so quick and replace you with five other dudes. And that's something that I saw personally. So I think that's, that's definitely something that I thought of. But, you know, I think, you know, without, I mean, that's. It probably would be hard to imagine more adversity that you had to go through as a youth player. Like, even, you know, back when you're 14, 15, as a freshman in high school and building that to, man, all the way through your college years. So what? Like, you know. Because I always say, you know, my goal is to. To play college basketball as well, and, you know, ended up not happening. But I look at the lessons I learned along the way and what. And how that affects me now with what I'm doing with my training, and, like, I don't regret a single thing about it because of where I'm at now and everything I know now. So what are some of the lessons that you kind of. You took from that and how does that affect you kind of to this day? Even if it's, like, just relating to players who are going through stuff and you're able to say, hey, listen, man, when I was your age, you know, I was in this situation as well. So you kind of have that. That little bit of a connection there, too.

Yeah. So there's a. There's a couple of things I want to touch upon. So I mentioned it earlier how, you know, people would tell me when I was working out, you know, in middle school, through high school, I was going super hard two to three times a day, and it told me to relax, you know, and maybe chill out. I look back on that now and I'm like, yeah, I definitely probably should have because I didn't really take care of my body, to be honest. I, you know, didn't really. I lifted a little bit, you know, but it was the minimum two days a week, three days a week. But it was mostly just basketball just going hard as hell, you know, just pounding my knees and not really recovering properly. And I think, you know, that played part in me, you know, getting injured a lot is because I never had the proper recovery, you know, And I try to tell all my athletes now that I work with, you know, to really take care of your body. Because I've seen one of the kids I'm actually working with right now, he's going through almost like a burnout. You know, he's been going hard. In California, the high school season got pushed back to March. So it was March all the way to June. And me and this kid were working out. You know, he had practice, and he was always trying to tell me, like, yo, coach, like, I'm trying to get in the gym today. Like, let's work out. Like, you try to come to the group workouts. And I would be like, no, dude, like, you're in season right now, too. You don't need to be going this hard. And he'd still just end up at the workouts, just still showing up, and I'm, you know, I just told him to take it easy, whatnot. But he was, you know, just still trying to go hard. And after season ended, he still wanted, you know, to go hard. And I was like, no, man, like, we got it. We got to rest for a little while. You know, you have a big, you know, senior season coming up, and he ended up going through a little bit of burnout, and he wasn't able to give his, you know, maximum effort through the first half of the first half of the summer. So we pretty much just shut it down for the past month and a half, you know, and whatnot. But it's very important to take care of your body, you know, because it could lead to injuries, it could lead to burnout, and that's something that you don't want to experience. That's something I went through and, you know, so I definitely recommend listening to people who are telling, you know, just to relax a little bit, because I know a lot of people are preaching, you know, ball is life, you know, grind 247 and all this, you know, and that. But yes, you can still grind 24 7. You, ball is still life, you know, with taking rest days, with taking care of your body, doesn't have to be on the court 24 7, you know, you could go four days a week, you know, and then take a lighter three days a week, have a couple of rest days and whatnot. But that's one piece, you know, of advice that I definitely give to Hooper Hoopers, you know, because I see a lot of kids that are really putting a lot of miles on their body, and it ends up, you know, being detrimental in the long run. But, you know, another piece of advice is to never quit, man. You know, you're going to go through some. Some rough patches in life, you know, whether it's basketball or, you know, any other situations in life. And me personally, I went through, you know, a lot of adversity with those. With those knee injuries, and, um, I just never quit when it, when it. When it came to that, man, even though I was like, you know, why me? Screw this. You know, I have to pretty much start back from zero. I just kept pushing and I never quit. And I guess you could say at one point, I guess I did decide to step down and I came into the training world. But even when I got into the training world, man, stuff got, you know, tough. You know, there was times where I wasn't making any money, you know, on almost, you know, making no money. And I still kept pushing through it. There was times where I told myself I was going to quit. Even when I was hooping, I told myself I was going to quit too, but I never did. I just kept pushing through it. And that's what happens. You know, a lot of people aren't able to reach success because they quit before it even happens, you know, and that's one thing I try to tell all the kids I work with. You know, people are motivated, they go hard and try to reach research goals, but they don't get to those goals because they quit right before they even happen. You know, and so I want to tell, you know, anybody who's listening to this man, just no matter what your situation is, you know, keep pushing. Because it's not a. It's not a perfect world, you know, that all the stuff you see on social media, everything you see on TV and all that, it's not perfect. You know, it's not like the movies. There's going to be rough patches, and you got to figure out how to get through those rough patches. And you know, at the end of the day, once you push through those rough patches, there's always going to be, you know, a light at the end, you know, so that's, that's what I can say, you know, for that.

Yeah, yeah, no, there's a lot of great stuff right there, I think, kind of to your last point right there. Like, that's one thing that I try and tell players and like, even I've said it a couple times on the podcast, like, it's so much bigger than basketball, right? And the lessons that you learn through basketball. Cause for everybody, like, the ball stops bouncing at some point, and for some it's earlier than others, right? The goal is to, you know, be a 20 year NBA vet, but obviously that's. That's 0.00001% of players out there. So the 99 plus percent, like the ball's gonna bounce, stop bouncing earlier than that. So it's really so much about the lessons that you gain and the habits that you build through basketball, right? So if you're used to having to stay committed to a goal, you have a goal that you set for yourself, Okay, I want to do this next season, okay? By the time I'm a senior, I want to win this. I want to do this. Like, I want to make it to this level. And you every day are able to get up and say, okay, I need to get this done today so I can move towards this goal, you're able to stick to that repeatedly for a long time. Like, that translates to literally anything else that you'll do. So now the next goal that you set with basketball's over. You want to start this business. You want to try and climb this position at this job. You want to do this, do that. Like, you've built those habits and that foundation to actually be somebody who can accomplish those things. Right? So I think that, like, that. That's. That, to me, is like a lesson that I just try and instill with. With the players I work with is like, okay, can we. Can we build great habits when we. When we work out, when we practice, can we be committed to it? Because whether or not basketball, you know, works out, ultimately, at the end of the day, anything that you go to after that, you're going to succeed in that because you've already made yourself into a person who knows how to progress forward. And I think that's something that a lot of. Like, a lot of kids don't learn how to do. And, you know, if you don't learn how to do that, then you're kind of stuck at the mercy of just your circumstances in life. So do you get lucky? You get born into a situation where, you know, maybe you've got a really rich family who can set you up with a great job. Again, that's, you know, 99% of people aren't in that position. So building those habits early, I think, is so big and kind of to pivot to your first point of, you know, hard work, right? And I think that it's always been like, just like you said, like, ball is life. Oh, yeah, I'm grinding all day. And the amount of messages I get from players will be like, yeah, this is coach. I work out for six hours a day, and, you know, I'm not seeing much progress. I don't know what to do. Should I start working out for eight hours a day or ten hours a day? And for every one of those, I'll get another message says, hey, coach, I work out for, like, six hours a day, and, you know, I'm having all these ankle problems, all these knee problems, and I don't know what to do. And it's like that, to me, is where, like, there's a disconnect, right? I think that, like, one thing that I constantly want to preach is, like, it's not about the time you spend in the gym. You can go to the gym and shoot 500 shots, and that can be so much less effective than maybe another Player going to the gym and shooting 150, because maybe those 150 are all game. Like, maybe they're contested, maybe they're working on something specific. And so now the transfer of that workout compared to, you know, that 500 shot workout where you kind of just stood there and, you know, shot shots over and over again, like, it's not the same thing. So I think the biggest thing, like, for a lot of players is you have to stop trying to, like, compare yourself to everybody else. Because it's like what you said, like, you go on social media, you see all these, you know, accounts on Instagram or on TikTok talking about, oh, yeah, you know, I work so hard, I work, everybody do all this stuff. And then I feel like everybody wants to compete and compare themselves. Oh, actually I work out for this long or I shoot this many shots per day, when at the end of the day, it's really just about like, are you moving closer to your goal? Are you getting better? And how quickly are you getting better and are you doing it in kind of a smart way? Like that, to me, is such a major part of what I want to do and the message that I want to spread on social media. So I don't know if you have anything to add to any of those points.

No, I mean, I think I pretty much touched up on it, you know, and I think you did a good job touching up on it. It's. It's not always grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. You know, you just got to figure out ways to implement, you know, recovery, implement some rest and different sorts of things like that. I know a lot of people see it just on social media, you know, everyone's always grinding. It looks like everyone's always grinding. You know, it looks like people are in the gym all day long. Actually, I coach a club program, and we had practice the other day on Tuesday, but I had a little private session before that, like two hours before, and one of my players was already in the gym and he was already building up a full sweat. And I was like, oh, how long you been in here for? So I've already been in here for an hour and a half. And I was like, oh, you're gonna go home before practice? Said, nah, coach, I'm working out till practice. And I. And I was like, dude, that's 12 to 5. And he was like, he was like, yeah, coach, I'm in here all day. And I was like, I try to tell him, you know, like, you know, I was like, how often did you do this? He's like, oh, I do this every day. And I was like, dang, man. I was like, you ever get tired? He says, yeah, like during practice, you know, sometimes my body's not able to give it all my all and I'm not able to do everything I want to do. And I was like, man, sometimes you just got to relax. And I was trying to preach that to him and, and you can get that through to him, you know, because like I said, it could be detrimental in the long run for sure. You might think it's, it's working now or you might, you might feel like you need to work out more, but you kind of just have to look at how you're structuring your workouts, what you're doing in those workouts and, and figure out how to make it translate a little bit better.

Yeah, no doubt. So kind of pivoting to, you know, you and your approach as a trainer now. So what is your, like, how do you approach player development, you know, in terms of you like, figuring out like, what do you work on with your players? How do you actually go about working on that? How do you go about improving someone's shooting or somebody's ball handling, somebody's decision making or finishing, whatever it may be? Like, what's your philosophy, your approach to, to, you know, training your players?

Yeah, so I use, I pretty much just work in like groups. I have like a year round academy that I do and so I'm just running that pretty much. And it's mostly groups. You know, every maybe once or twice a month I'll have like a private session, you know, but for the most part I kind of just look at what the players need and you know, some days I'll go based on what a few players need. You know, some, some weeks I'll just kind of just make up a workout, you know, on my own. But what I'll do is like this past week I was noticing a lot of players were struggling, you know, with finishing versus help side. So I, I came up with a workout focused specifically on that, you know, and the way I set up my workouts is like almost like not every time, but you know, majority of the time I do like a, the play drill, play style. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but just to kind of explain it just for a quick second for anybody that's listening that might not understand is I start off with like a small sided game. So just kind of going live in a situation where players got to finish with help get that going for five to 10 minutes and then I'll get into some sort of drill. So like that's exactly what I did yesterday. I had players going live against each other to start finishing versus health side. And then I gave them like four finishes that they can use versus help side. And so I'll rep those out for a few minutes of each finish and then we'll get right back into kind of just implementing those versus live defenders and stuff and small sided games. And what I kind of do is if players implement the finish that we work on, I'll give them, you know, extra points. So we'll play to a certain amount maybe, or go for a certain time limit. And if players like one of the finishes worked on yesterday was like a slide by. So if they finish with a slide by plus two, if they finish with maybe one of the other three finishes that I gave them plus two, if it's a different finish, then it's only one point, you know. And so then you kind of see players starting to implement those, you know, because they want to win and they're trying to experiment and, and figure out when those finishes work, when they don't work. And that's how you kind of get players to translate skills into the game, you know. And other times, other workouts I might just start, you know, with the ball handling warmup. And I like to do a lot of like now I used to give players like tell them exactly what to do and every now and then, you know, maybe we will do a couple of things where I tell them exactly, you know, what, you know, movement I want them to do. But then there'll be other times where I do like a lot of freestyle stuff I've been seeing. I don't, I'm sure. Oh, I know you follow like Coleman, you know, by any means basketball and Tyler tjl, you know, and I've been getting inspired by a lot of, you know, their stuff, how they do a lot of freestyle stuff and they also, you know, implement ball handling, you know, with a live defender, you know, so that's pretty much all started with either, you know, a live drill or we'll kind of do like a little ball handling warm up to get started.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's. And that's a lot of how I approach it as well is like, okay, so let's put, let's put players in situations where like they kind of have to figure it out. And that's why like the plagiarill play method, like to me it's it's awesome because you start off with just, first of all, we're competing at something. So immediately, like off the bat, it's just way more fun. And like, the energy's going and like, everybody wants to win. Everybody's competing. And so it goes from like, you know. Cause I remember when I was growing up, like, it always seemed like workouts were like, they're workouts, right? You were always ready for the game. Cause you got to play. But workouts were always like. It was, it was, it was boring a lot of times because we're just like, you know, we're just drilling, drilling, drilling, drilling. And maybe the last five minutes, 10 minutes, we'll get to play or compete or do something. And I think that not only is it more fun for players to be able to have, you know, be able to compete throughout the entire workout, but like you said, like, the game transfer, it's just. It's just so much better. And that, that was one thing that, like, you know, for me growing up, I didn't. I didn't realize that. And that's something that we'll have to touch on too, is like going from, you know, playing like you kind of your approach as a player, but then how that changed and how you kind of evolved as, as a trainer as well as. Okay, maybe the stuff that I did when I was playing, maybe that's actually not the best way or the most efficient way of getting better at this. That was something that I've. And I've grown a lot in the last probably six, eight months from that. And like you said, those guys, Coleman, Tyler, like, a lot of it is stuff that they post and the points that they make. But like, that's. That to me is such a big thing is like, I think my goal is like, okay, I want you to be able to be. Be more effective in a game situation. Right? Because I can. We can, we can go throughout a workout and we can just shoot stationary shots all day. And you're going to become a better shooter in that. That situation. Like, I can probably see a progression of your shooting from like the time we start to the end of the workout. However long that workout may be, you're probably going to look a little bit better. And then if we do that every day, you're going to get gradually better every, every, like, every single day. But then when the game comes and now you've got a defender who's closing out to. You got a defender who's forcing you to do something else, you've got to move a little bit faster because there's somebody chasing you around a screen. Like, can you still be effective in those sorts of situations? I was just texting. So I coach a high school team. I was just talking to the. Our varsity coach today because we were watching our. He sent me a clip from the. The USA Slovenia game from yesterday. And Slovenia hit like a. They had a big three at the end with like 30 seconds left. And just. It was coming off of a screen and he was like backpedaling into it. He caught it hand in his face, like, as contested as it comes. And he. Not like, it was a must have shot down four, and he knocked it down. And so we got to just talking about, like, everything that goes into hitting shots in a game situation. And I was looking at like, just the numbers behind it and it. Although, like, at the college level on the. On the men's side, it's like something like 57% of made threes on average are contested or guarded shots. So now we have a way that, like, okay, you know, when I have groups of players and we're going to shoot the ball, it's probably more effective that we work on some contested shooting because when you get to a game, you're going to see those sorts of looks. Like you're going to have to make those sorts of shots, especially for any of my. Any of my guys who are playing college. Like, half your shots are going to be contested. That's just how it's going to be. And so can you still be effective in those sorts of situations? I think that's where there's been a disconnect, where it's like, okay, we just go to the gym and shoot 500 shots. And if you do that every day, you'll be a great shooter. Well, not necessarily, because there's. There's just different aspects of it. So that's why, like, working with groups to me is. Is like the best way to do it, because you're able to simulate more of that stuff as well. But kind of to the point that I brought up, like, how has your progression been from, like, okay, you know, when you were a player and you did stuff that, you know, whatever your workouts look like when you were in middle school, high school, into college even, and. Cause I just said, like, was a lot of that. Like, you're like, you training yourself.

Yeah, so I did train myself a lot. And then I also had a couple of trainers that I worked with. And it's way different. Like 100 times different, man. Like, it Was when I would work out trainers, it's always, you know, going through cones, you know, making a bunch of moves at each cone, you know, and then there would be times where they would teach us moves and stuff. It would all be on air, you know, there's no decision making, there's no defender and they kind of explain, you know, when to use it, but we would never get to actually experience it versus a real, you know, defender. And then that's even, you know, when I first started training, I kind of just used that stuff too. You know, probably up until about a year, two years ago, I'd say like completely changed the way like I was training. You know, I would always do cones. I'd always, you know, teach like little breakdowns of certain moves. I teach a bunch of different moves. And some kids would get better, you know, and then some kids would really just struggle with it. And I would say about two years ago is when I first kind of got introduced into like small sided games. Instead of just like checking the ball up and playing one on one, you know, we would do small sided games. So I found, I don't know if you're familiar with Yorick. I think that's how you pronounce his name. He's, he's a trainer out and I want to say Belgium, but he would do like a lot of small sided games. And I first saw that and that's when I first started kind of doing small sided games. And so I would, the way I would train is I would teach kids a specific movement or maybe move, but then I'd put them in the small side of the game where they'd have to use it. But I would honestly, I would say like my workouts would go for an hour, 40 minutes would be on air stuff and then maybe like the last 20 minutes we do small sided games. And I did that up until about, probably like a year ago. And then this past year I've pretty much passed past maybe six months I've completely changed it, you know, and, and gone into that play drill, play style or gone more into like kind of letting players just like freestyle. Excuse me, almost. And honestly, I change the way I train every, probably every couple months I'm finding something new, finding new type of style and kind of implementing it. But yeah, I don't really do, you know, that cone stuff anymore. I, I play a lot. You know, there's a lot of live stuff in my workouts now. It's, it's not just the last, like you said five minutes like that's what I was doing when I was training with, you know, trainers the last five minutes, if we were lucky, you know, they let us play, you know, so that's how pretty much I've changed.

Yeah. Yeah. I think like, like my goal at this point, like whenever I'm training and it's like what you said, like, I, I change up how I do things. I change up my views on things, like, every couple months. Like, like, that's just. And I think that's how it should be. Like, I think if you're really trying to get better at it, like, you're going to be like, oh, I was wrong about that. Oh, I could have done that a lot better. And that's constantly where I try to be at every couple months. And that's, that's my goal is like, I could look back, you know, a year from now and be like, wow, I didn't know anything a year ago. That's like, that's where I want to be at. But I think the biggest thing is, like, I want to, like, I just want, I want to build players who can just figure it out, right? And that's, that's something where, like, coaching, like on my high school team and like, I coach with a, with an AU team as well. And like, really that's the difference between players who succeed and ones who don't. It's not always like, you know, who's got better moves or even like, who's more skilled. A lot of times, just like, you might have one player who can be in a situation and one thing can go wrong and they're, they're done. Like, they can't, they're not going to overcome that, right? They come off of a ball screen and somebody, you know, they blitz the ball screen. Like, if, like, they can't, they don't know what to do. And then you have other players who just, for whatever reason, whether it be just naturally it's how they are or because they've trained for it, they're able to kind of overcome and adapt to those things that might go wrong, right? So, you know, a play gets run and maybe there's an additional help defender who steps up a little bit early. So, you know, they know, okay, I can get into a pull up right here. Meanwhile, other players would just be like, okay, well, the defender's there. I can't do anything. They got to pick the ball up. And so for me, it's like, I'm always trying to put my players in situations where they can just kind of Learn and build those instincts. When it comes to just figuring it out, adapting to things. Like, I used to be like, just like what you're saying, okay, we guys, we got to step here and then you got to do this moving and a dribble it right here. And now it's literally just like, I, like, I honestly, I'm at a point where I'm like, listen, I don't. You can do. You can do it wrong. If you do it wrong, that's fine. Just keep going because you're going to do it wrong in a game. So when you do inevitably do it wrong, what's next? Like, can you still make something out of that? And really, like, that's why I think live play is so important, is because it, it not only builds those skills, shooting, ball handling, finish, whatever it may be, but it also builds that mindset of just being able to figure it out, being able to adapt to different things. So that's, that's been. That's kind of where I'm at as well with that. So kind of kind of going with that. You know, we're kind of talking about groups. What, what's your. What would be your advice for players? Because I know for, for me, like, a lot of players listening work out by themselves, at least the majority of the time. I think that's probably most players, right? Maybe they work out with a trainer, but, you know, maybe the other four or five days a week, they're out by themselves. So, like, what do you have in terms of, like, if you're going to be by yourself, what would be the best way to kind of go about getting better?

Yeah, um, when you're by yourself, I'd say try to add some, you know, some pressure, I guess. And what I mean by that is, say you're doing a shooting drill. Maybe you. You say you got to go five or seven or you start over, you got to make 10 without missing two in a row, or you got to start over, so you're adding some pressure. Another thing you could do is maybe you are doing a shooting drill and you shoot the ball, but instead of going back to that same spot or doing that same movement, you have to. You can't do the same shot two times in a row. So you grab the ball at the net, maybe you just throw it somewhere on the floor. And now you got to get into a different footwork, a different, different situation. Off of that, I would say, you know, you can rep stuff out, you know, put some pressure on yourself, like I said. But then also you know, add some variability. So when you may be doing some ball handling. Actually, I learned this one from Mastery Hoops, which is Coleman and Tyler's platform. They have this ball handling drill. Forgot what. It's what they call it, but pretty much you give yourself three moves. So you say, you say cross, cross behind or something. When you're doing. You maybe go to half court and back or something, but when you're doing it, you cannot do the same pace, the same pattern two times, you know, all the way up until half court. So you're trying to add some, you know, variability. You're changing up your pace, you're changing up your rhythm, and that way you're getting. You have to adjust and get creative, you know, and it's getting that creative, a creative state, thinking and being able to adapt and adjust. This is kind of how we were talking about. That's what I would pretty much, you know, say when you, when you're by yourself, add some pressure, you know, add some, you know, variability. And, you know, once you get. Because I know a lot of people like to rep out moves. You know, once you get comfortable with the move, figure out how you can maybe, maybe you're doing, I don't know, between the legs cross. Say when you do between the legs cross, you can't do the same shot two times in a row. You give yourself two dribbles a score after you make the move. And it has to be a different shot every time after the two dribbles or whatever the heck it is. You know, just figure ways to. To get yourself to. To be creative.

Yeah. Yeah, man. Creativity, variability. I love it. Like, that's definitely. When you're by yourself, just working those two things into what you're doing, that's. That's definitely the best, the best way to go about it. So, you know, I think a big thing. I kind of touched on this. But when we talk about, you know, we want our players to constantly be striving to get better. Okay. And constantly being, you know, wanting to work hard and being willing to work hard and. And being committed and getting better every workout, every day. So obviously, I think for us as trainers, as coaches, like, I think that same responsibility has to fall on us as well. Like, we've got to continue to get better every single day. We've got to get better every week, every month. We've got to continue to progress forward. Like we shouldn't be. We shouldn't be in the same spot right now as we are in six months. Just like we would Hope our players wouldn't be either. So, you know, from, from your perspective and with your experience, what is, what have been, like, how have you progressed? Like, what resources have you used? Like, you know, maybe, maybe books that you read or maybe it's just, maybe it's, it's through experience. I mean, obviously that's a part of it. But like, what are your basic, your tips for developing yourself as a trainer or as a coach? And, and what else? Like, what could you give to guys who are trying to progress themselves forward as well?

Honestly, the biggest resource that I've been using is mastery hoops. If you guys aren't familiar with that, I kind of mentioned it a couple of times before, but it's just a pod or not a podcast. It's a platform for trainers and they have a players platform too. But it's, I have the coaches one where it's four coaches and trainers and learning how to just grow and better your craft as a trainer. You know, they give you a bunch of resources. They give you, you know, drills, podcasts to look up. But I'm, I'm on there like weekly, you know, trying to learn and adapt and grow myself, you know, and I also study like a lot of other trainers. You know, like I mentioned, another good one is Yorick. He's the dude I would mention that's in Belgium. There's another dude, can't even think of his name. But I watch your stuff as well, you know, just to see how you're operating and see what, you know, other trainers are operating. You know, I take a little bit of everyone's stuff, you know, and create my own style. I would say that's probably the biggest thing I do. I read a couple books. Forgot to do his name. It's, I want to say. Oh no, his name is Brian McCormick. He made like this basketball book. I forgot exactly what it's called, but it's pretty much going over how to train and coach players and it talks a lot about, you know, variability, creativeness, you know, putting them in game situations where there's defenders and stuff. I read that. I've read it a couple times actually. Those are, you know, a few things, you know, I'm doing to really better my game. And oh, actually there's a podcast called Basketball Immersion that's like Chris Oliver, I think he's the host and he does a phenomenal job bringing in, you know, other coaches who are like minded and you know, they share their philosophies on how they handle player development and how they handle you know, just coaching in general, that's been a great resource for me too. But those are, those are some things, you know, that I'm doing to enhance myself, you know, know, as a trainer.

Yeah. It's funny you mentioned basketball immersion. Cause that was, that was one thing that I was going to bring up. I don't know if you've heard Chris talk about BDT or basketball decision training at all. Yeah, so like that's something that I, I, like, I recently probably like three, four months ago started getting into that a little bit. So literally like anytime I'm with, anytime I'm doing like a one on one session because you know, there's, you know, there's limits to the amount of defense we can play with that. So like being able to add in just BTQs and stuff like that is just a complete game changer in terms of like keeping players out of being on autopilot when they're working out by themselves. Now they have to think about, okay, are his hands up? Am I shooting the ball here? Am I driving here? Okay, what's like that? And that to me is just like, it's genius. Like, it's, it's, it's phenomenal. So yeah, Chris Oliver's stuff, Basil immersion, like the podcast is great as well. Like, I'm the same about mastery hoops. I'm on there like probably every other day at least. And, and whether it's like looking at the drills and stuff like that or the resources that it comes with as well, any of the modules and stuff like that, like there's just so much stuff on there, like for sure, recommend it to any, any trainers listening. Like, I think it's, it's one of the best investments you can, you can, you can make in yourself as a trainer. And for sure that's going to come back to you like tenfold. And for, at least for me it has. So that, that's the biggest thing. But the other, like, the other thing is like what you said, taking from those, like, I watch, I'll watch your stuff. I'll watch just stuff that I find on Instagram. And I think that you can get to a point where you can start to come up with stuff a little bit more on the fly, like throughout workouts. And it's like, okay, maybe we're working on attacking a closeout on the wing. And then you know, maybe that, that's going on, that you see something else happening. You see them struggling to finish because of this. And now, you know, you, you think back something that you saw, you know, I saw Gabe post about this the other day. So. Okay, now we can add this into it. That's going to help them in disregard as well. Or I saw, you know, Master who's posted something about this sort of, this sort of thing and like, that would just kind of snap into your mind as you're working out. So it's like you're able to kind of, you know, like, we want our players to be adaptable and like we can be adaptable as well when we see stuff start to pop up. I think that, like, that's one thing that I've gained a lot just from, you know, constantly trying to learn from, from others and get better watching other stuff as well. But no, that's awesome. And so I think, you know, kind of the next thing I wanted to ask you is when it comes to building, because you work with a lot of players, I see a lot of different players on your Instagram and all this. So how do you build relationships with players? You know, what is like, how important is that to you and to, you know, your approach coaching? Because I think some coaches like the relationship they have with players is not only like a byproduct of working with them, but it's actually a part of them developing is like the buy in that they have from those players. So what's kind of your approach with that?

Yeah, honestly, building relationships is one of the coolest things, you know about, you know, training. I always, you know, try to learn a little bit about each player I work with. You know, every time, every time a player that I work with walks in the gym, or maybe I skip them at the gym, you know, getting some extra work in. I always, you know, make it a habit to go out to them, talk to them a little bit, you know, not even just about basketball. It can be about anything. You know, I. There's a few kids that I train, that I coach, you know, that are huge fans of Marvel and huge fans of Star wars. And I'm a huge nerd about that stuff too. So, you know, so I always find myself, you know, talking to them about that stuff. It's not always about basketball. And I feel like even when I do go out to them, I talk to them about family, talking about what shows they're watching, whatever the heck it is, they start to trust me a little bit more, you know, and buy into the process. And you find them even going even harder for you, you know, when they are working out. But I honestly just think that's the coolest thing, you know, is building relationships with players. You know, it doesn't have to be strictly just basketball. It can be, you know, other parts of life. But like I said, I make it a point to go out to every player that I work with, say what's up to them, you know, talk to them for a second. I try to get to the gym, you know, 10, 15 minutes early, just so I can have these conversations with players, have these conversations with parents, you know, talk to the parents a little bit too. And it's not always about basketball, you know, it's about, you know, different parts of life.

Yeah, that. That's like something that I've been reading recently. It's called, I want to say it's never. Yeah. Never lose a customer again. I just started getting into that. Yeah. Yo, you got it. You got it. Yes.

Yep.

Yeah. So I literally just got into it like two days ago. And like, one of the first point that they were making is like, you have to like, if you want to gain loyalty, like, it's. It's really about, like, separating yourself and like, really showing how much you actually care about, you know, the, the customer after the initial sale. Right. And kind of put that into training perspective. It's like, okay, so, you know, you're out and maybe through word of mouth or whatever, like, you get like someone else interested in training with you. If, if you look at it like, okay, they're here, they're training, like, my job's done, like, I have a client. Like, that's not going to be sustainable for you long term. So it's, it's really about, like, how do I go above and beyond? So, you know, for me, sometimes it's like, we'll have an hour workout, but like, if I don't have anything to do immediately after, maybe we'll go a little bit longer than, than we might. We might normally. So it's like kind of we're going a little bit above and beyond. But then like, it's kind of like what you said too. It's like, it's not just about the basketball. It's also about like, okay, do I actually know this kid that I'm working with? Like, what do they like doing outside of basketball? Right? Like, you know, where are they going to, like, are they going to play a tournament this weekend? Do I. Did, you know, do I ask them about their tournaments? And the other thing is, like, when I get a chance to, like, I'll. I'll. I'll watch my players play in their tournaments or. And that's like, you know, during the season when I'm not coaching my own team, like I'll be at games and I want them to know that, like, it's not just about like, you know, the hour that I'm with them, but it's also like, okay, I'm watching what you're doing when you go and play so that, you know when you come back to work with me, like, I already know what, like what happened. I know what you struggle with in that game. Like, I know what you did well in that game. So I think that builds some more trust as well. And I think that that kind of separates you and now, you know, from, from both the players, the parents perspective, it's like, okay, well, seems like he actually cares about, you know, the well being of, you know, of, of my kid. And so then to me, like, that's where that's where you really start to build that loyalty and that trust and the buy in and then ultimately that's where the results come from. So that, that's, that's a major thing and kind of the last thing I wanted to ask you about just from a training perspective, when it comes to, you know, how you've built up your business to this point, you know, you, how you've established yourself and established your credibility, what, whether that be locally or online as well. And then just tips for kind of reaching your goals, you know, for trainers out there or for people who even are just looking to do something with their own business, whatever it may be.

Yeah. So I would say the biggest thing that I learned and how to grow your business and, you know, continue to build it and bring in new clients or keep, you know, clients is making it actual, like an actual business. You know, I talked a lot of trainers who are still taking just cash for payments or still just taking Venmo or Cash app. And I always try to tell them, man, like, if you want to make it sustainable and you want to continue to grow, you know, and I know a lot of people are trying to do this full time. You got to get away from that. Like you got to no cash, no checks, no Venmo, no cash app like it, you got to make it real, you know. So what I did is I created. So I use like square right now and Stripe and I don't know if you've ever heard of like acuity. So I use, you know, those platforms and everything. Like all my academies, they're all like a monthly reoccurring membership, you know, so I'm not gonna There'll be every now and then if a player, you know is going to be on vacation so they only can drop in for the month, they'll, they'll come in and they'll drop, they'll pay the drop in price. But I make the drop in price, you know, a little bit more than, than, you know, the membership, you know, I have. And another thing actually I'll touch upon this real quick is I been learning more ways to add value, you know, to not just only, you're not only just going to get training with me, know, you're not only going to come once a week with me, you know, you'll get your once a week session with me. But I also have been giving players an accountability journal. You know, so every session, after the session or after every session, you know, players will write down exactly what they learned that day. You know, a lot of players go home after they work out or after practice and they forget, you know, what the heck they did, you know, in a couple days they'll forget it. So every week or every session, players will write down what they learned and then they also have to self analyze themselves throughout the workout. So what did they do well and what did they struggle with? They'll write those things down in their journal. Could be one thing, it could be three things, you know, whatever. They'll write down each category, their strengths, weaknesses, and then based on what they wrote down, they have to come up with some homework that they need to do to improve those weaknesses and then keep on sharpening those strengths. And so they'll come up with that. And then I also give them access to my online training program. So everyone that, you know, works with me gets access to online training and also assign them homework through that. And what I've been doing recently is giving them stuff for confidence. So, you know, I'm reading this other book right now. It's called 254 confidence. I don't know if you ever heard of it by Evan Carmichael, but It's pretty much 254 pages and you read one page a day and it, you know, it's pretty much just tips on confidence, how to build confidence, and then it gives you a challenge on or like something to do that day to build your confidence. And so I'll take little screenshots of that. I'll put that in my online training and let players, you know, use that. And then I'll also, you know, put podcasts on there for players to listen to. But I'm just giving, I'm giving Them more than basketball. You know, they're able to not only become good basketball players, but they're able to, you know, grow into young men, young women, and build confidence in basketball, but. And build confidence in themselves, you know. So that's something I added as well. So it's not only, you know, just basketball, you're getting more than that. But going back to what I talking about before is, you know, you have to make a reoccurring, you know, type of payment. You, you know, it could be weekly, could be monthly, whatever the heck it is, three months, every six months, just so you know, exactly how much, you know, money you're bringing in, you know, because a lot of dudes who are taking cash are taking in, you know, whatever the heck it is. A player could. Could pay for a group session one, one week and then not come back the next week. Or, you know, I know coaches who do online packages. So they'll. Kids will pay for a package of four, which is good, but then, you know, they pay for one month, they don't come back the next month, you know. And so when you're. When you're setting this stuff up, you also, you know, have to make a very, you know, concise and firm terms and conditions. You know, write down everything that you're expecting and how you want to run your business and what happens in this situation or that situation. So before players or parents are registering, you know, they're able to read those terms, conditions, and understand, you know, how you operate. And I've learned that parents that are. That are paying, you know, they love that even more. They love not having to log into the. Or pay you Venmo, you know, every Wednesday, you know, they just comes out of their account, you know, every six of the month, you know, whenever the heck they signed up, you know, they love that more. They don't even have to worry about. You don't even have to talk to payments about, you know, parents about payments, you know, you don't have to say, oh, hey, Ms. Jones, you know, you forgot to pay, you know, last. Last session or whatever the heck it is, you know, because those are awkward conversations, you know, and. And sometimes, you know, parents do forget, you know, or sometimes, you know, I've ran into a couple situations where parents are just avoiding you and not, you know, trying to pay. They're trying to get everything for free, you know, and when you set up your business to run that way, you're avoiding, you know, all those little things, you know, and it's making everything just run A lot smoother. And you need never have to talk about payments, you know. You know, besides when they're actually signing up, you know, that's the only time you ever talk about it. You know, you don't have to worry about any of that stuff ever again. You know, you can just build, like I said, build relationships with those parents. You know, I would say that's. That's one thing that's helped my business tremendously because now I know how much income I'm getting in every month. You know, I don't have to worry about people missing. I don't have to worry about if this guy shows up this day and doesn't show up the next day. I'm able to kind of see the numbers and know how much I'm expecting, you know, every month. Another thing that I highly recommend to any trainer, any coach to get is a platform called Hoops Institute. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Myson Jones. He's another trainer in the space and he has built a platform where you're able to have a website, but then you're able to kind of. It's hard to explain, but you're able to run a business from that website. I'm trying to think that's why. Not the best way to explain it. But, you know, you get your website, you also get your own business phone number, you get your own business email, you get all these marketing tools, you get a whole bunch of different stuff. If you guys aren't familiar with him, look up Myson Jones and Hoops Institute on Instagram. You can find more info about it. But pretty much, you know, you get your own business phone number, you get your own email. And from that platform, from Hoops Institute, you can send out mass text messages, you can send out mass emails. You don't have to use, you know, like side programs like, you know, mailchimp, if you guys are familiar with that. I used to use mailchimp in the past. I'm literally running my business from Hoops Institute and I can literally do anything, you know, I want from that. I don't have to go to a bunch of different sites and do those things separately. It's all on one platform and it has a lot more. That's only a couple, things, you know, that it offers. But there's so many marketing tools, so many, you know, like a daily schedule. You can set up your daily schedule on there, what you're going to do on there, and figure out what you're going to knock out for the day and whatnot. But if you're interested in that, go check out, you know, Hoops Institute on Instagram has way more information on there. And I know my stick can explain it a lot better. I didn't even touch on, you know, half the things that I can do. But if you want to do this full time or you want to grow your business, you need Hoops Institute for sure.

It's awesome. Yeah, no, I second all that stuff, man. A lot of value in that. And I appreciate you coming on. I don't know if you have anything else that you kind of want to leave with or if that's it, but.