Your Identity As A Hooper, Science Based Training Approach, and more w/ Tyler Clark(@tc.performance)

Foreign Bastard Training Podcast. Appreciate you guys for tuning in. Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever else you're listening from, and of course, everybody who's watching on YouTube. I appreciate you guys. You'll see if you're on YouTube. Right now, I've got a guest with me, my guy, Tyler Clark, who runs TC Performance, a mix of the sports performance side, but also the basketball skills training side. And those are like the type of guys I love talking to, because basketball, it's all movement. And being able to train both the movement when it comes to basketball specifically, but also the athletic performance side, I think is a really interesting blend. And from the guys that I've talked to who I really respect, like, that's kind of how they see this place, this field going is like, as you want to continue to level yourself up as a basketball trainer, you also have to understand the movement side of it as well. So I always love talking to guys who are living that life and who get that from Maine. But, you know, I'll let. I'll let him kind of have the floor right here to kind of give a little bit more of an intro. So, tc, man, welcome to the pod. I appreciate you being on today.

What's going on, man? I appreciate you having me, like two weeks ago, got you on the podcast as well. So that was cool. Yeah, so I'm. I'm TC Tyler Clark. I. Not necessarily a business quite yet, but TC Performance is. Is kind of how a lot of people know me, but I was a player myself. Decided to take a different route about two and a half years ago now. So my junior year of college, decided to step away from basketball, and that's when I took training on is basically everything. Took that full head of steam, started researching everything as much as I could, taking that as seriously as possible. And that took me to basically interning as a strength and conditioning coach, interning as a performance and skill development coach, meeting a lot of really cool people like yourself. I know you've had like Danny Cooper on, Danny Metzer, guys like Coleman Ayers, Tyler Leclaire, Yurik Michaels. Like meeting a lot of. A lot of really cool, important individuals in this industry. And it's definitely helped me grow into the. To be the trainer that I am today. Like you said, I am a mesh of both skills on court development as well as the weight room kind of performance side of things. I think that there's absolutely a time and place for both of those things. And I think that, like you said, that is kind of the future of things. Do I think Every single trainer out there needs to be a mesh of both. No, but I think that you can, you can get a lot from learning a little bit of both sides. Like, if you're, if you're a skill development coach and you know a little bit about the performance side of things, I think it'll help. And I think vice versa, if you're a performance coach, you know, we can get into the nitty gritty of that. But if you're a D3 strength and conditioning coach and you deal with every single sport team there is on campus, it might be a little bit more difficult to understand the skill development of those sports. But if you're in a position where you're able to be the performance coach for one team, say basketball, football, soccer, whatever it is, understanding the, the skill development side of those things helps you more. So as a performance coach, gear them, you know, understand what they need more so on the court and develop that in the weight room. And just to kind of update everything about my story right now, I'm currently the skill, the player development coach, and the shunting condition coach for Southern Maine Community College. That's where I played as well. So I'm in a unique position where I do take care of the strength and conditioning as well as the player development. So I can talk about that later. But that's definitely had its perks for me as well.

Yeah, no, I, I love that you touched on that kind of. That mesh of, of, you know, the skill, especially when it comes to stuff like, like ball handling, right. And how a lot, like, people think that it's. It's surface level, like, oh, if you're not a great ball handler, it's because, you know, it's what your hands are doing that's not good enough. And a lot of times it's not even that. A lot of times it's the movements. Like, this player doesn't want to go left because they're not comfortable stopping going towards their left. They don't want to go right because they are really comfortable stopping, decelerating, going right. But now it's like, okay, how do we train that quality of helping them become comfortable decelerating going left. And now when they have that and they feel safe doing that, now they all of a sudden are going to go left. So you look at it, it's like, oh, that's a skills training thing, but really it's a movement thing. But having that understanding of those sorts of qualities, I think is something that will help every trainer. And again, even, like, you said it doesn't mean that you have to know everything about every sort of movement, every sort of exercise. It doesn't have to be like that, but just having that understanding that it's not always surface level. And when you understand some of those qualities that matter and you can kind of pinpoint that, I think it helps to allow, it allows you to help players a lot more than if you just look at it as like skills only and you know, there's no movement involved.

You know, movement is a skill in itself. So that's kind of universal whenever it comes to skill development or off court weight room performance. You know what I mean? So in general, we're teaching skill, we're teaching these athletes skill. And whether that's in the weight room without a ball or even on the court without a ball. Like, like you said, ball handling isn't necessarily about, you know, waist up. It's actually more about waist down. It's, it's, it's what's happening below the waist, how do you move, how do you decelerate, how do you cut, how do you change directions, what is your agility like? Like, do you, do you, do you have the requisite deceleration and acceleration, do you have the requisite balance, strength, all these things to be a good enough mover and then apply that to the court and be a good enough ball handler?

Right.

So it's like you're, you're teaching all these things as a skill and we need to teach our athletes how to self organize and motor learning is huge, whether it's on court skill development or weight room as well.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's awesome. So I wanted to touch a little bit on kind of your training approach, you know, that kind of the games based approach where there's the understanding of, okay, what is, what actually goes into helping a player acquire these skills. Skill acquisition, how do, how do we help players be in a position to actually learn? So kind of go into how you approach things and, and kind of your overall view of basketball training in general.

Yeah. So I think, well, to start like, we all start in like a bad spot, quote unquote bad spot, right. Whenever we train ourselves or first start off, we're kind of like just follow the status quo. The traditional, let's just get reps up, let's just do moves on air. And I did that for a little while for myself and for my friends and whatnot, my teammates. But the more and more I started to dive into the research, it just, the research just didn't add up there. So the games based approach is obviously as it sounds like, you play a lot of games, you play a lot of live and a lot of that has to do with the transfer to game, right? So the context that a game based approach brings to a session is everything. So if you can add context into your sessions already, the, the, the rate of transfer is going to be way higher to the game, right? So if you have a player that's super timid or I, I won't even say that if you have a player that's super good in practice, just killing practice, chances are they're probably actually not going to be that great in the game. And I know you know a lot of that research and I'm sure some of your listeners have heard you talk about that, but it's, it'. If you get really good practice reps and everything's perfect and you're getting reps up and against, no defense at all, no bodies, anything, you just don't have the context. You just can't apply that to an actual live setting. So whenever you get into the game, you can't apply it because you're so used to doing it on air. So the games based approach is really good. You can do things like small side of games if you don't have anybody there, a random, like random shooting, a random approach. So it's not so blocked. It's just you give your, you give your body variability and you give your mind different solutions which you need because on the court you don't, you don't have one solution, right? Like it's not one true fits all. So you need a variety, you need, you need a memory bank, you need a bank of a bunch of different solutions. And that's why a games based approach you get repetition without repetition. So every single rep, every single drill, every single time you, you line back up and, and do a finishing drill, a shooting drill, it's going to be you're getting the same outcome. Yes, you're, you're making a jump shot, you're taking a jump shot, but you're getting to that same outcome or solution differently every single time. So it's a one jewel pull up, but you have somebody running at you from the opposite elbow. If you're on the opposite wing or however you set up a drill, that person may come at you faster, come at you slower, maybe juke you out, whatever. You have to think about it every single time. And whenever you're using your brain for these sessions, for these drills, for these reps, it's just constant feedback to your brain. And then you can self organize and in an actual live setting, an actual live competition or a game, then you can apply what you learn. You can self organize and think, okay, I didn't make that in a practice session or in that drill, whatever. But I know that I now have solutions and I have a bank of information in my brain so I can apply that to whichever situation I am. So I'm more equipped to now apply like basically take these and plug those into different areas, all these solutions. So it doesn't matter what you throw at me. I'm way more equipped than somebody who's just been on the gun for their entire life. You know what I mean? Just getting shots up or just layups. It's. I do, I don't, I do this a lot. I don't, I don't try to, you know, harp on block shooting. I do think there's a time and place for that. But in terms of actual betterment of your performance and getting better on court, random practice and a games based approach is going to, I mean, studies show that there's a higher transfer rate. Like you're going to get better, you're going to get more results doing that kind of stuff. So the big thing is the self organization and being able to apply what you've learned. The solutions to different problems that you see in a game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's all about like, I kind of view it as, okay, it's not just that we're trying to get better at a skill. Okay. It's like, can I help you to become a professional problem solver? Right. So no matter what situation you may be in, there's something you can go back to to help you solve that problem. Because every single situation you're going to face is going to be a little bit different in some way. And actually this kind of touches on the next thing because one thing that really separates, you know, even this, even the same situation, but for two different players. But it could be, it could be the same player in a similar situation. But sometimes the affordances that that player is going to have is going to be a little bit different, right? Sometimes they might be going against someone the same height as them and then the next possession it's the same situation, but the person they're going against is 8 inches taller than them and that's going to change how they kind of view things. Obviously, if you have two different players, then we have those different affordances. And I know you just had a podcast talking about that. And I was actually thinking about that before I even listen to your podcast about talking about affordances, and I listened to yours, I was like, that's awesome. We definitely need to talk about that. So for those people who don't know what affordances are, what are they and how do they kind of shape players and the decisions that they make?

Yeah. So definitely that episode, I thought I. I did a decent job portraying what an affordance is and how to kind of use that in a session. But an affordance is essentially an opportunity to act. So we're all afforded things as players, as people, based on our stature, our age, our health, a bunch of different things, our skill set, our intentions. So basketball, we'll just keep it for basketball, right. If, like, you and I could be very different players. I think you said you're a lot more catch and shoot, right?

Oh, yeah.

So catching a shoe, I'm a little bit more of a slasher. So you and I are going to have much different affordances, right. If you, if you get a ball kicked out to you after it's been driven and you're wide open in the corner, you're going to shoot that every single time. Because that's what you see as an opportunity, right? You. That's your opportunity to act. That's your skill set. You're a shooter, so your skill set, you just feel comfortable. I'm. I'm popping that thing. That's your opportunity to act. If I was to get the ball kicked out to me into the corner, my skill set is more so a slasher, right? So I'm either going to take one dribble, pull up, or I'm taking two, three dribbles, right into three defenders. And I'm trying to lay it up because I don't. I just don't have the skill set of shooting that open three. I didn't. @ least I. I do now. But just for the. For the sake of this example, in high school, I wasn't like that at all, right? So that was a big issue for me. I. Anytime a ball was kicked out to me, I. I would force it back into the. To the middle of the paint and try to lay it up, and I would ruin our. Our offensive flow. So I wasn't afforded that. Like, that wasn't. I didn't see that as an opportunity to act. So whenever. Cause I think the next question is kind of like how. How do we use those in our training sessions, right? So if we identify that, right, you're a catch and shoot. Guy. But maybe you need to be a lot better off the dribble, even if it's not being a slasher and completely transforming you as a player. Well, we understand that you see shooting a catch and shoot three as an opportunity to act. But how do we get you to see another opportunity? How do we get you to see a two dribble mid range pull up as an opportunity to act or a floater or something like that. So that's when we can gear our, our environment like our training session and just the drills specifically geared towards you or whichever players so we can work on those weaknesses, quote unquote weaknesses or just help you get better at seeing those opportunities. Right? So small side of games are a phenomenal tool for this reason specifically watch some film, dissect. Okay? All you do is shoot threes in the corner, right? At the college level, maybe that works for, for, for one year your freshman year. But next year like we know that you shoot threes, so we're taking that away every single time. So how can we not be so one dimensional? Well, in the training sessions, let's gear it towards. All right, one kick out and I'm going to give you a read. If I put my hand up, you're going, you have to put a mid range up, right? Or if it's a small side of game, then the only way you can score is you have to score off of two dribbles or maybe you're incentivizing, you get two points for a one or two dribble pull up, right? So just figuring out ways to get you in the mindset to where you're thinking like I can only shoot a mid range. And then once you only give that as the solution, then you start to see that as an opportunity, right? And at first you're going to fail because you just have never done that. You've never seen that as an opportunity to act. But it's important because you're giving them the environment one to fail. And that's a whole other discussion obviously. But giving them that environment and creating the environment for them to see that as an opportunity to act, right? So defense is deliberately forcing them middle or forcing them baseline. Maybe they have to put up one or two dribbles and it has to be either a floater or a mid range, they, they just can't catch and shoot. So the more and more you drill that, the more and more you get reps on reps on reps and create a small side of game and get repetition without repetition. Add some Live defense, some live reads, then it starts to become muscle memory, it starts to become just second nature at that point. So it's, it's important to identify affordances and it's, it's not really, I feel like, discussed in skills training because I don't know, I feel like research isn't really brought into a traditional skills training. But I, it's, it's super important in my opinion.

Yeah. Yeah. And I also, I love how it ties into that game is based approach as well. Because if, let's say we're going through a small sided game where there's actual defense, you might have three players there, but they all might be a little bit different, size wise, athletically. So right there you actually get to see like, okay, what, what affordances are there for this certain player. So what are they going to go to most often? Whereas if you're just on air, you might have them all working on the same thing. But player A might be able to do that in a game because of whatever affordance they may have. Player B might have no chance of doing that almost ever. And then player B is going to get to the game and they're not going to have a solution for that. So I think affordances can kind of go back to what you were talking about earlier, which is like we have to have solutions and every player is going to have a different bank of solutions depending on what affordances they have and small set of games tying into that great way for us to be able to do that. And I also, I love what you said right there as well. You kind of briefly mentioned it, so I'll talk, you know, touch on it a little bit here. But creating an environment where failure happens and failure is okay. So I don't know what kind of experience you have where it comes to creating that sort of environment where it's like, hey, failure's gonna happen. And because a lot of players are so used to that traditional environment where it's all about avoiding failure, it's all about making things as perfect as possible. And you know, you and I both understand the fact that that's not, that's not the ideal environment for getting better. I just talked about that on my podcast last week where it's like, you know, the Goldilocks principle, you don't want to be in a position where it's way too hard, where you're failing, you know, every single time, but you also don't want to be in a position where it's way too easy, where you're succeeding every single time, 90% of the time, you can find a way to be in the middle of that. That's where we're going to be able to expand that capacity a little bit. But you have to be able to help players realize that, like, this is a safe environment where failure is okay, failure is sometimes encouraged, and failure is actually necessary. So I don't know what kind of experience you have when it comes to creating an environment like that, but if you have anything with that, you touch on that here.

Yeah, I think that it depends on your situation as the coach. Obviously, if you're, if you're like a team coach and you're working with this team year round, it might be easier for you to create an environment that's conducive to those players. You know what I mean? Because whenever you came onto my, My, my show, like, you talked all about emotional intelligence, so a lot of that comes into play, right? Understanding the players that you have, the athletes that you have. Excuse me. You're going to create an environment that's conducive to them. Like some, some players can take, like, all right, I'm, I'm. I'm gonna hit one out of 10 shots in this drill. And they're strong enough. They're like, mentally, quote, unquote, mentally tough enough to get past that and be like, it's fine, like, I'm gonna get better. Whereas another player may hate that and they may go home and cry, you know, like, so. So understanding your athletes obviously is. Comes first, but definitely in my experience, it comes down to talking to your athletes first and just understanding. Like, if you. So I don't know, there's a couple of different ways you can do it, right? Like I said, if you're a team coach or if you're a trainer and you've had these, these athletes for a little while, it's. It's easier. But I feel like for me, the difficult things have been, like, if I've never met this athlete before, still want to make sure that they're in that, like, optimal zone of improvement and they're feeling them out through the actual training session. So if I have two or three new athletes in a training session, I'll talk to them first. Ask, like, all right, what. What are some things you want to work on today? What are some things that you feel like you lack in game or just want to improve on? I'll understand that. Say it's like offhand dribbling, offhand finishing and shooting off the dribble. Something. Something like that. So I, I gathered that kind of information. I put em through a warmup. Some drills that like, are very neutral. They might hit like five, at least five out of 10 shots. See how they adapt to that. And if they adapt well, they're like, oh, like, I'll get the next one. Or if they're like, damn, like they're getting really frustrated, then maybe I gear more towards like 7 to 10 and like, make the, make the drill a little bit easier. But if they're like, okay, it's whatever, I'm, I'm going to bust through this and like next year I'm going to get it, then maybe I do make it like 3 out of 10 and a little bit harder because they might like that competitive nature. So I think it just depends on who's in your session. And like I kind of alluded to whenever you came onto the show, like, you talked all about emotional intelligence. I know you're huge on that. I am too. So understanding your athletes and, and even if you don't, trying to figure out that information as quickly as you can, adapting as quickly as you can on the fly throughout the session, pick up on body language, pick up on how they communicate with the other people there. Like, if they don't know anybody in that session, like, are they, are they shying away? Are they trying to converse with them? Are they not making eye contact with you? Are they very timid? Things like that. If they're just very insecure and like they're a little bit younger, then you just need to maybe hold their hand a little bit more. But if you're already established with a certain player, then like, yeah, push them. If you know how to push them and they, you know that they can handle it, then make it as hard as you need to. Make it as hard as you want. I feel like those kind of situations are easier, but when you don't know an athlete, that's kind of when like the art of coaching comes and like understanding body language, understanding the emotional intelligence side of things.

So so much of it is about like that, that push and pull where it's like, okay, how much can they take in terms of, you know, failure? And, and I think a lot of times, like, what I love to do now is just like reframe the whole thing. So I might say, like, the first thing I might say is like, hey, listen, like, I, I don't go home and judge today's workout based on, oh, you only made 30% of your shots and you made 35 last time. So that, like, that was terrible today. Like, that's not how I view it at all. I go back and I completely view it based on, hey, did they struggle or did they not? Because if I leave here and you don't. You don't struggle at all, then that's on me. Like, that means I didn't do a good job today. I didn't help you get better today. So not only do I want you to struggle, I come here thinking about how to make you struggle more. And so now when it happens, they understand that, like, okay, this is like, this is a part of it, right? This is like, this is. This is the plan. This is. And then here's why that has to happen. So I think a lot of times reframing it, even, like, from the beginning, just be like, hey, like, this is how it's going to be, and here's why we do it this way, so that they understand, like, hey, it's okay. And, you know, nobody's judging me for this right there. And it's nice to have players, too, in those sessions who have been around a little bit longer who you can, like, they can kind of confirm that. Be like, hey, remember when we started this? This was, like, really, really hard. And, you know, eventually, though, you pick it up and they'll be able to tell them that, too. So you kind of have that. That aspect with it as well. But no, I really think that, that, that that's important when you approach things the way that you and I do, being able to create that environment where, hey, listen, you might struggle, but you have to. And if you don't, it's. It means that I'm not doing a good job, but you're not getting any better. So.

No, 100. And to your point, like, I don't. Yeah, I. I never go home. Like, damn, they missed every single shot today. No, I. And to your point, I. I do go into sessions, obviously wanting them to struggle, but at the same time, like, it. I go based on, like, how many decisions did you make that session, too? Right. And I think you've talked about that in the past. Like, how can we basically make. Make it seem like. Or figure out if, like, this session was, like, a good session and not basing it on how many reps we got up or how many shots we made. Right. Well, let's. Let's do it based off decisions. Like, if they're making decisions and they were failing, that's fine. They made 20 decisions today and tomorrow, half of those decisions or a quarter of those decisions Will be better.

One of the episodes of your podcast you taught, you kind of talked about the mama mentality, the Hooper's mindset. And you kind of talked about how, you know, a lot of times that's like a really praised. It's like the goal of what every player should be mentally. Every player should have that mindset. But you also talked about how that can become toxic a lot of times, and a lot of times it can do more harm than good. And I actually really love that topic and that conversation. So kind of explain the why behind hey, why can this be? Why can this be a toxic thing?

Yeah. So first off, I've been thinking about, like, I don't like tarnishing the mama mentality because obviously Kobe was phenomenal and RIP Kobe. So it's. I mean, it ended up being the mommy mentality and that's what I titled it. But kind of like that toxic, like, like I, I need to just put everything into basketball. I think that that can be toxic sometimes. And I think unless you're. Because yes, there are some late bloomers and sometimes you may figure it out later on in life. And you can go pro, obviously. But I feel like a lot of pro guys know throughout their life, like, I have an opportunity to go pro. So your average guys like myself, like I did, I have a dream of playing in the NBA when I was like eight years old. Sure. But as I got older, obviously, like, I kind of realized I don't know if the NBA is realistic, but like, whatever, maybe overseas. And then as that, obviously things change. But like a lot of people have this mindset where in reality we're all like pretty average players, like a very, very small percentage of players go and play and get paid millions of dollars. Right. So if we have this mindset that all we need to do is work out and watch film and consume basketball. And that's our entire life. And from an early age that we adopt that mindset. That's all we have. Right. So that mama mentality, that kind of, that's all we have. Like that, that becomes our identity and we really latch onto that. So whenever that time comes where it's like, okay, it's either I try to sign an agent and like figure out if I can go play overseas and kind of keep this dream going, or it's like I go find a 9 to 5 or like a different career path, obviously you don't have to go find a five, find a nine to five. But it's either, basically I try to fight that dream or I kind of let it crumble. So whenever that time comes, you have to make that decision, you kind of lose your identity, right? So whenever you latch onto that identity and like, I am basketball, you don't have anything else to fall back onto. And I, and you know, I, I actually got some questions from friends of mine and like, just people that listen to the podcast. Well, isn't that considered quitting? Or like, like, why should you have a plan B? And I'm like, well, honestly, it's not a bad point to bring up because if you are somebody who does have a chance, then maybe you shouldn't have a plan B. But I don't really view it as a plan B. I just view it as being a human being, right. And enjoying life beyond basketball. Because you don't have to be basketball. It's just something that you do. So I think it's, it, it becomes toxic when it consumes you. And that's all you have. And in the, in the episode that I put out, I, I said, like, you know, there are people out there that are like, I'm going to miss time with my family because I need to get this workout in whenever it's consuming you so much that you're like, choosing it over your family, your friends, like holidays, things like that. It's not that big of a deal because, like, you just have to be realistic with yourself. If you're getting paid millions of dollars, yes, prioritize it. But if you're just like on a men's league team every Monday or every Thursday, like, you don't have to miss time with your family, it's really not that big of a deal. And I think at that point it becomes toxic because you're, you're, you're losing valuable time, right? Like, live your life. I think that experiencing, like having hobbies, experiencing the world, experiencing your friends having a good time, like, those things are way more important to, to me at least, and I think they should be more important to other people than making sure you get your, your lift in or making sure you get your shots up, when in reality it really doesn't matter all that much unless you are a college athlete in your. In, in your season or in your off season or like you're getting paid paid million millions of dollars. Obviously, like, high school is important too. I'm not saying, like, your situation isn't important, but just be realistic with yourself and like, do I really have to miss this dinner with my aunt to go get shots up or can I just do it after Right. Like, don't prioritize that kind of stuff because in that, at that point I feel like it becomes toxic, at least in my opinion.

Yeah. And I think, I think one of the, one of the points that you made that you kind of talked about was just like your, your what, what is your identity? Right? And I think that's where a big struggle is and where this can become sort of a toxic thing is like when your identity becomes basketball and basketball is what defines you, then, you know, you're, you're literally at the whim of did you have a good game or not. Right? And then if you do, then life is great and if you didn't, then life is horrible. Right. And that's just like the worst place to be. And that can be. I mean, this can be for way more than just basketball. It can be the same thing with, like, with training. Like, if I'm like, hey, you know, if workouts went well today, then I'm awesome. If they didn't, then life is horrible. If that's my entire identity is just that, then like, things are going to be bad. And I don't want to be in a spot where like 50% of the time I feel great, and then the other 50% of the time it's just like the world is, is over.

Right?

And I think when, when players put everything into basketball, especially younger players, like when everything is just about that and you kind of neglect everything else, and that's where all of your like, self worth and all your identity is based on, then you're going to set yourself up to like, be really miserable all the time. And that's not, that's not a position where, I mean, because I see it obviously, like, I mean, I've been through it. When I was growing up, that was like the, that was. The thing is, like, it's all about this, all about this, this, this. And then it's like, man, you're gonna spend a lot of time being really upset because at the end of the day, basketball is like, it's a great thing, but there's so much that goes into, you know, being successful in it. And it's not always just how hard do I work. If it was a competition about who works the hardest, and whoever worked the hardest was, you know, the best player, and it was just like a, it was just like that was how it worked, then things would look a lot different. But at the end of the day, Some people are 7ft tall and jump 40 inches and they might not have to work as hard as somebody who you know is 5 foot 10 and jumps 25 inches. Right. They might. That that person who's smaller, less athletic might work. They might. And listen, that's. That's like, I might work way harder than that person who is 7ft tall, but at the end of the day, they have a very big affordance over me. And that might mean that that work isn't going to translate to me being more successful than that person. So if my entire identity is based on, hey, this is what matters, then you're going to set yourself up for being miserable when things don't happen. So I think, like you said, putting basketball in its place is like, hey, this is a great thing, you know, but I also have a family, right? I have other things I like to do. And now basketball stays what it is, which is something that's supposed to be fun, so it's supposed to be enjoyable. And obviously you want to work at it and get the most out of it that you can, you know, because you can get a lot out of basketball. Obviously, you and I, like, this is. This is what we do. Like, we have a lot. We're not playing in the NBA, but basketball has still done a lot for us, and that's how we've even met, right? So it's like, it can do so much for you, but at the end of the day, if it's your identity, it can end up.