Brynn Hochman

I'm Danny Ruderman and this is Extraordinary youy, a podcast that shares inspiring stories of young people who've done incredible things and how they did it. Our guest today is 18 year old Bryn Hockman, a senior in high school who has personally delivered over 1000 wheelchairs all over the world, including South Africa, Vietnam, Ecuador and West Virginia. She then wrote her first children's book, the Perfect Swish, about a rabbit in a wheelchair who overcomes his fear of playing basketball that she funded by running a Kickstarter campaign. Bryn, welcome to xu.

Hi. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. Let's start with this. What's your take on polka dots?

Absolutely love them.

I thought, big fan. I saw what you were wearing today. I'm like, she's going to totally answer this question. Nice. Okay, well, to actually get started, I should say that unlike some of the guests, I've actually known you for over a year because we just finished the college application process.

Woo hoo. Woo hoo.

Wasn't it fun though?

Yes, very fun. I don't know why I hesitated, but very, very fun.

Lies, all lies. That's why we deliver sarcasm on this show. But let's get to more important, important things. Tell me a little bit about you growing up. What was your upbringing like?

So I'm one of five. I have two older brothers and one dog. His name is Boo and he's a shih tzu and we absolutely love him.

Careful. That's shih tzu, right?

No.

Is it Shih Tzu?

Yes.

Nice.

I could be wrong. Careful.

It's a family show. Continue.

I. I have two great parents who started my whole love for delivering wheelchairs and actually just the basis of helping people.

And why did it even get started to begin with?

My older brother Tyler. He wanted a mitzvah project for his bar mitzvah when he was 13. So I was about 8 and my dad approached him with the American Wheelchair Mission, which is who we partner with for all these deliveries. And it started from there. His mitzvah project, my other brother mitzvah project, and then mine.

And did you have any personal family or any kind of contact you had with wheelchairs before his mitzvah project?

Not necessarily wheelchairs, but physical disability. My cousin fought an Afghanistan war and while he was a medic in the war and while he was running back to his convoy, he stepped on a mine and broke his back and he was told he couldn't walk again for the rest of his life. And that was the beginning of our need to help people with Physical disabilities, because it actually slapped my family in the face. Metaphorically, I bet. So that started it and we've run with it.

That's amazing. Would you consider a certain person in your family to be a mentor for you?

I would say my parents or my grandma. I'll start with my grandma. She is the matriarch of my family and really taken control over maintaining a relationship with each of her grandchildren, with each of her sons and daughters. And she's just been a shining light. And then my parents are the same and they've supported me throughout, you know, the many phases of my life and each journey that I decide to embark on. And the wheelchair has definitely been a huge help from them.

I would imagine that the doing this together with your family all over the world has definitely brought you together as well.

Definitely. We've also gotten to see those many parts of the world which for a lot of people, they don't get the chance to. And I've had the privilege to visit Vietnam, Ecuador, even in our own country, West Virginia, people don't go to, you know, people in my community don't really go and see that part of the world and that part of our country. And so they've definitely opened my eyes and I'm so thankful for it.

Why did you choose these particular places around the world? How did you determine that that's where the need was?

So recently, Ecuador was our most recent visit, and President Moreno is the only sitting president in a wheelchair. So that really inspired me because the president knows what it's like to be in a wheelchair, to have a physical disability. And so we wanted to partner with the government to coordinate these deliveries, which we did.

Wow.

And, yeah, we went to Ecuador in August and delivered 280 wheelchairs to people's homes, hospitals, care centers. And it was amazing. We were in the Amazon, we brought wheelchairs in there, and we got to coordinate that trip with the government, which we have never done before.

Well, now you're being a little bit humble because you were the one taking the lead on this. You were the one that coordinated with the government, isn't that correct?

Correct.

And can you tell me how you even went about doing that? If someone said, oh, I want to deliver wheelchairs to the president of Ecuador, how does one do that?

It's actually a slippery slope and it's not a one click process. I had emailed the American Embassy to Ecuador and gotten no response for about two months and then realized that the secretary or the person that you normally email, who's on the website has the same email address as, say, the ambassador. So I took her email address, like her username and sign and then the domain name and just copied the first and last name of the ambassador to Ecuador and shot for it, you know, shot in the dark. And he responded within a day.

This is the ambassador, the US Ambassador to Ecuador.

Yes.

Just got back to you in 24 hours.

Yes.

Why do you think this is important? Because I talk to a lot of students who get amazing things simply by putting themselves out there. And my whole philosophy is, you know, an adult will do for a young person what they'll never do for another adult because they want to help you. So what was his response? And why do you think that he got back to you so quickly?

I think it all has to do with me being a kid. Right, because say, my dad did it. I don't think he would have gotten the same response. A child doing it. And even when I was in our first deliveries, I was 13, I was 10, I'm now 18. But that still makes a difference. And it's not just this 40 year old man trying to make a difference. It's actually a child who wants to do it. And if a child at that such young age can do it, then 10 years from now, she or he can do it still.

And how did you even know how to write the email?

That is a good question.

Thank you.

I spoke from the heart. I told them about my deliveries, my history with the American Wheelchair Mission, and it seemed sincere. And it was.

And it was. And that's really, really important. And I thought you would answer it that way. So thank you for going that way. So you email the ambassador and you have this idea that you say, we want to deliver these wheelchairs not just to the city, but we want to go to the Amazon too. What happens after that? Like, what does the logistics look like?

So then you first have to find the people in the country that you want to. For us, that was the ambassador who could get us to an organization in Ecuador, and it was the Ministry of Health, which is the government organization there. And actually the first lady, that's her organization in Ecuador because she's so involved with physical disabilities. And so then we connect with the Ministry of Health in Ecuador, and they are the people who find us, the people that need help in Ecuador and partnering with the American Wheelchair Mission, or in this case the Canadian Wheelchair Mission, they're the ones who manufacture the wheelchair. They have it built and then sent to the destination.

Okay, so you show up with your family basically in the wheelchairs mute you. You arrange to pick them up somehow rent a van or rent some sort of big truck.

So that is then coordinated with the country's delivery system. Almost like the Ministry of Health was in Ecuador. It's the country doing it or the people that we found there to do it.

Got it. And if you reached out to these people, let's say an individual, have you. Or they reached out to them, do they know you're coming on the recipients?

They do. They know because of the people who reached out to them that were coming. But they also, when we do come, they are shocked because they didn't know. They didn't know who was coming. They knew someone was coming to deliver the wheelchair, but not this family from America. And even a little girl coming, her whole family, and they're just. They're so grateful.

Do you have. I mean, I know you have a lot of them. I've heard them. But can you tell one story that really impacted you, that gave you really insight about what kind of difference you're making?

Yeah. So we were in Vietnam. It was for my mitzvah project, so I was 13. And we visited a little boy who was affected by Agent Orange. And that is generational. You know, he obviously wasn't in the war, the Vietnam War, but his parents, his grandparents were, which, you know, went down the bloodline. And he was maybe 5 years old, and he was amazing. He was carried by his mom, and he was very frightened and not even making eye contact with us. But once he got in the wheelchair, his hands hit the wheels and he just instinctively started moving. It was insane. It just really showed that through all that hatred throughout those so many years, that someone could forgive and forget and just be so thankful for a wheelchair, a new gift to live.

And he didn't have any. How did he get around before this.

In terms of transport, his mom, or in other cases, not with a little child, but an adult who is disabled, they would be dragged on a blanket on the ground or put in a wheelbarrow and transported, you know, even just to the kitchen next door or to the local store. Normally, people who can't move around don't really get go anywhere. And a wheelchair are their legs. It's their chance to, you know, go see a friend next door, go see a neighbor.

It's life changing.

It's life changing. And.

And what are the reactions? I know the little boy just started wheeling around in circles like it was second nature to him. What have been some of the other reactions of people? Maybe even a Little bit older when they get their first wheelchair.

Yeah. They start crying.

I bet I start crying. You start crying, right? I would be besides myself. That would be unbelievable.

Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes there's a language barrier. I was gonna ask, but it doesn't matter. You know, a cry is a cry, a hug is a hug. And so all they really know what it says. Thank you. Sometimes. And that's enough. They don't need to say anything more. Like, that changed my life because I can see it. Everyone can see it on their face and the way they embrace you, that it really is just life changing.

You're not faking that. That's real as real gets. And what did this experience since you were 13 and now you said you're 18? What has it done for you? How has it changed your perception of the world?

It's opened my eyes. I've gotten the privilege to see those parts of the world and see how so many people live and just the things that I take for granted. I don't really think about how I'm going to get to my bathroom from my bedroom. I just kind of do it. I use my legs and I do it. But half the world can't just do that. And so actually being able to see that, not just being told a story or seeing a picture online, that's truly so inspirational. Just that fact in general.

Does it change your perspective? Because you've been doing it for a time. It wasn't just one time thing where you might be stressed about something that you, you know, makes a big deal or your friends are being very dramatic about something that's stressful. I'm not saying it's not stressful, but there's different level of stress, obviously. Does this put things in perspective for you?

100%. 100%. And I catch myself sometimes being 18. You're applying to college, as you know.

I know.

And obviously that's a great big stress. But then I have to step back and think about right now, what could that person I delivered a wheelchair to in Vietnam be doing right now? And what could they have been doing 10 years from now when I didn't have the chance to give them a wheelchair? And it just makes it.

Yeah. Puts you. It's like, maybe I don't need to worry about the 500 word essay that is due in a month. That's not as stressful. And that's why you were also great. It's not like you didn't experience stress. But I've been doing it for a long time. And you're much more balanced than the average person. I think partially because of this experience and partially because of your family. Right. How did you raise the money for these wheelchairs? Where did it come from?

So that's going to people like big companies or family friends giving presentations showing that their money isn't going, you know, to waste, that we actually have had successful deliveries in the past and, you know, they should donate their money to such a great cause.

Have you given any presentations to companies or groups of, you know, older people that you didn't know and you have to go in and sell them on this idea?

Yeah, I have.

Give me an example.

It was my first round of deliveries to Vietnam and my dad had told me that this is the way that that had to be done. And I accepted it. And he brought me into this room of random strangers. And how old were you? I was 13. I was scared out of my mind. I probably was clammy and sweaty and I just had a presentation, pictures behind me, I had prepared before. So I just went off of my past deliveries, my history and the pictures speak for themselves, I bet.

I bet.

And from that time on it was easy because it was just second nature to me to talk about these issues and those deliveries that I've embarked on.

What was the response, if you remember, of that first presentation?

They were all teary eyed, I would say, when they saw those pictures, when I finished my presentation and they wanted to join and, you know, donate their money.

Have you ever had anyone that you've pitched to say no?

Not to my face. Maybe I don't receive their donation in the mail, but not to my face.

Right, that's fair. And like you were saying that first presentation, getting over that initial fear and having that success makes everything much easier after that.

Yeah, it does for sure.

Now having said that, what obstacles have you faced personally? Again, it could be you are scared or you don't know how to do something or someone just says no. Anything that's come up for you over the years.

So recently through my book, I've been going on like book readings. Do you want me to talk?

No, we'll talk about it. Well, okay, we can back up. Sure. So. So let's, let's bring it up for your book because tell everyone what we're talking about, actually.

Okay, so it's called the Perfect Swish. It's a book about a rabbit who is in a wheelchair and he wants to play basketball with his friends and he's just the water bunny rabbit. And through the help of his friends the courage. He decides to join the team and play basketball.

Nice. Nice. And so where did this idea come from?

I wanted to find another outlet for my passion for delivering wheelchairs and helping people with physical disabilities. And I've always loved children's books. I think they have such a subtle yet so impactful message. And I wanted to combine those two.

That's great. And so you just sat down one day and said, oh, I'm gonna write a children's book. Let's do this. Oh, good, it's done. Probably not.

Not as magical as that sounds.

Right. So how did you actually do it? How long did it take you, and what was the process?

So it's been two years. It first started with, obviously, the idea and this passion that I wanted to combine of children's books and my help for people with physical disabilities. And then it came to writing, and it actually rhyme. It's a rhyming children's book. And so rhymes are not as easy, you know, meter keeping the meter keeping the rhyme. So it took about a year to write it, have it edited by teachers at my school, people that I knew. And then after that, I had to find an illustrator in order to illustrate these pages. Because I'm not a good drawer.

Not your strength. Okay.

Not my strength.

It's good that you recognize that.

How to branch out for that one. Found an illustrator, which we found online. His name is Dustin. He's fantastic.

Where online?

This website just for illustrators.

There's, like, freelance people that you can hire.

Yeah, Nice. It was. It seemed so easy, but I'd never thought of.

Yeah, but how many people did you have to look through? And how long did it take to find the illustrator that you wanted?

He was the third illustrator that we had reached out to because the first one hadn't illustrated the pictures that we wanted, and it just didn't work out with the other two.

By the way, I love how you say we. That's like a family thing. But it's really. In this case, I happen to know this is all you, by the way. You are. You are taking this project on yourself, and not because someone told you to do it or because you wanted to look good for college. It was just something you wanted to do, right?

Yes, yes, yes.

Make that clear for everyone. Yes. She's very humble, but I happen to know how much time she put into this. So it literally took you a year to write it, to get it to the place that you wanted, and you had again, your English teachers at school help edit it, and then you Go out and you find an illustrator. And now, great. You have a story and illustrator. But how are you gonna pay for it all?

Yes. So that was funded through the Kickstarter.

Aha. Aha.

There it is. We raised $11,000 on Kickstarter. Crazy. Actually, the page is probably still up there for the perfect swoosh on Kickstarter. And we made a video for it.

We.

I made a video for it, created the page, created all the rewards that you would get if you donated. And then we raised that money, found that, paid for the illustrator, and then used some of that money to find a publisher and a manufacturer.

Okay, so before we get to that, let's go back to Kickstarter for a second, because Kickstarter is an amazing platform for those who don't know. It is called crowdfunding. You can put up an idea whether you want to make a bicycle or in this case, write a children's book, and you make a video, Right? You make a video of your pitch, if you will, and then people that you know, you can spread the word that way, or people in the community of Kickstarter can find your project and then fund it for you. Right? So there's. And you set a goal right now, Kickstarter, there's a couple of different ones, right? Kickstarter and Indiegogo. Kickstarter, if I'm not mistaken, if you don't meet your goal in a certain amount of time that you set, you don't get any of the money, right? You have to meet your goal. Now. You can go beyond the goal right now there are other platforms like Indiegogo that if you. There's no timeframe, Right. You just. Whatever you get, you get. So why Kickstarter?

It's a really good question. It was the only one that I thought could meet Kickstarter, allowed me to set a goal and really go for that goal, because I don't get the money if I don't reach the goal. It really pushed me to get that $11,000. And it was $11,000 or nothing.

Is that what it was? It was $11,000 was the goal.

Yeah.

I mean, that's not chump change. Like, that's going for it. So it was either this or it's not getting made.

Yeah.

Wow.

And so I think that really, you know, drove me to really advocate for my book, make the video, find people to donate, because it wasn't. I wasn't gonna go home with nothing, Right. And so I really, really wanted that $11,000, and I had to work for it.

Got it. And so were you surprised? I mean, how long did it take to raise the 11,000?

I think around two months, maybe. Yeah, two months.

And did you just. Were you on social media all the time? Were you sending emails? Were you constantly pitching, basically to get people to do it?

Yes. And because I've pitched before, I knew what it was like, and it was a lot of emails. I have an Instagram account that, you know, I promote my book, promote my deliveries, and the Kickstarter campaign.

That's amazing. And were there any big surprises that it's someone that wasn't your relative? Just like, here's $500, and you're like, oh, my God, someone just gave me $500 for this. They don't even know who I am. Was there any of that?

There wasn't any big spender, but like $5, $10, and from random people. That's amazing.

Yeah. And that's actually what I've heard, actually really works at Kickstarter. It's not the big donor, it's the five, ten. A thousand people donate and people believe in you. And your idea, again, helps that you're young. How did you make the video?

So I had my phone, actually, I used a more professional camera. And it's a family effort. I say we, because my mom is standing behind the camera filming me. My dad's helping me come up with the script. It's my face, but it's a lot of teamwork, Right?

That's great. That's amazing. So, okay, so you have the money and you have the illustrator and you have the words on a page. Basically you were talking about a publisher and a distributor or a manufacturer. How does that work for somebody out there who wants to maybe make their first book?

Yeah. So I had to consider whether I wanted to self publish or find a publisher. I decided to self publish. And so that was me on my own. I had to market my book. And even before that, I had to find someone to print the book. And because all the profits from my book go to raising more wheelchairs, I didn't really want a publisher, a manufacturer, someone taking some of that percentage, because I wanted all of it to go to raising money to buy more wheelchairs. And so that's why I self published, found a printer online who could just print 100 books at X price. And I would then go market my book and go to libraries and go to bookstores and go to clothing stores and other places that would take my book. And so that is what the next year was spent Doing.

So you were just literally going door to door?

Yes.

And did anyone, like with the wheelchairs, were there people who said no?

Yes.

Now we're getting to the obstacle part. We're getting back to that, right?

Yes. That was the obstacle part I wanted to jump into.

Okay.

That was a lot of work and harder than what I was expecting because people don't necessarily want to buy 100 copies or want to buy 200 copies if I'm not already in a book. They want to see proof of concept. And. And it was actually hard getting into bookstores because they don't allow for self published books. They actually want you to be on IngramSpark or any of the big publishers. So I couldn't go through to bookstores. And then it's kind of like a domino effect from there. If a little pop up store wants proof of concept, I can't say, look at a bookstore, can't say go to Diesel and see my book, because it's not there. And so I had to. I actually brought with me pictures I had printed of my deliveries to show them. This is authentic. I'm really just trying to do more of this.

And where were you? Where were these pictures of? Where had you delivered to? Who was the first person or company to say yes.

For the books? Yes, actually it was Poppy, the clothing store in the country, Martin. And I'm forgetting of the other bookstore.

Okay. So this was so, just so I. Because she says, I know what she's talking about. Poppy is a children's clothing store locally here, has a couple of different locations. And so the owner said, sure, we'll put this book on our counter, you know, and we'll sell it for you.

Yeah, got it. So mainly what they do is they won't give you money for the book. It's if they sell the book that they'll pay you. So it was just. It could be sitting there, someone could be buying it. It was totally. I left it up to them.

Okay.

But that was, you know, how was gonna go.

Did people buy it?

Yes.

Nice.

Yes. I felt very good.

I bet. So did the owner of Poppy just call you and say, hey, we're out of books. Can you bring more?

Yes.

Amazing. And so how many businesses like this did you eventually get into?

Around five, I would say. And then it's also on Amazon.

Right.

So if you look up the perfect swish on Amazon, everyone should look up the perfect swish on Amazon.

Okay, continue.

Another outlet. So then it was, some of the books are ordered. Most of the books actually are Ordered through Amazon.

Okay. So in addition to going around and pitching these different stores and getting turned away and needing proof of concept and bookstores say no.

Yeah.

You then started to think outside the box, which is, I know what you tend to do. If you go one way and it's blocked, you think of some other way to do it and try it. Right?

Yeah.

So what else did you do?

So then I wanted to go into elementary schools, preschools and host book readings and hopefully get interest. And so I've been to John Thomas Dye, Brentwood Lower School and Li Tse and I've held book readings there. And they have bought books after the.

School or the individual families.

The individual families through the school.

Got it.

So they would send out a newsletter saying, oh, we're having this great speaker. She's bringing a book if you want to pre purchase. So she can sign or you purchase after. You can do either and she'll give you a book.

And again, how did you even reach out to them? Email. Did you just show up at the school and say, hi, I'm Bryn, I got books, let me talk, I have.

Books in my car? No, I emailed them. And that also is not a one click process. They don't respond. You have to keep on pestering them. And so that was another form of me marketing myself. I had to reach out to all these schools, keep reaching out and hopefully they would respond back.

And what was the reaction of say your first classroom of little kids as you read your book to them?

It was adorable. It was probably one of the highlights of my whole book history and book background and you know, this whole wheelchair thing. They would ask the cutest questions. They would interrupt. First of all, they're kids, so they.

Would, why did you write a book?

Did you draw the pictures? What's your favorite ice cream flavor? I guess that has something to do with me reading a book about a rabbit.

Sure.

It was just fantastic.

What was the cutest, best question that you got?

Why are they in a wheelchair or how do you make a wheelchair? Like very simple questions that only a little kid could think of. And I had to formulate a response that was geared toward a six year old understanding it. Sure, that was tricky. But also once the kid, I could see it clocked in their head what actually the book was about and why rabbit's in a wheelchair and how normal it is and how rabbit can just be like another teammate on the team and it doesn't really matter that he's in a wheelchair. He can play just as well and Little kids, understanding that is a big thing because you have to see all the different types of people in this world. And if you're really young, I think that's the best place to start.

I mean, that's incredible. I would love to have been there and seen their reactions. Have you actually had a child in a wheelchair in the classroom?

I have not.

Or someone who has a sibling or a friend that's come up to you afterwards and said, thank you for this?

I've had not the little kids, but I've had the teachers come up to me and say, a family member or someone they know, they would love to see this book and read it to their children or their families.

How good does that make you feel? How much does that fill your heart?

A lot. A lot. It keeps me going. I have emails pending trying to send to other schools because I want to just keep on doing it.

One question that I'm sure that others students will want to know is, when did you have time to do all of this? And I can tell you that Brin's academic schedule is not what one would call light. You have cranked in school too, and the school that you go to is not easy. So how have you found the time or how have you structured your day or set goals to be able to accomplish these things?

It's the little things. It's taking it step by step. Finding, you know, having that idea for my book, then writing the book illustrator. You have to take little steps. If you look at it big picture, it's going to be too stressful and it's going to be too overwhelming. I have taken it step by step, day by day, and although I do have a rigorous course load, I try to find the time and day where I can write an email to another school, write an email to the library, post something on social media.

Do you time block, in other words, do you set aside a specific amount of time, like for a week, you know, this week. Here are the things that I want to get accomplished. And I think I'll be able to do it from three to four on Tuesday and Thursday, or I have Saturday for two hours that I can work on it. Do you do that type of thing?

Yeah, I'm very organized. So I have a schedule and I'll try to spend probably at least, let's say 10 hours a week, plus or minus on this, and hopefully I'll meet that goal and I'll exceed that goal.

That's great. And the reason I ask that is because a lot of students come to Me with an idea, I want to start a business or I want to make a film or whatever it is, but no one's told them that it just doesn't happen. And what happens is that life gets in the way. So, oh, I didn't know that my girlfriend would break up with me or I didn't know that I had three tests this week. So by pre planning, right, by saying, this is what I want to accomplish, you may not reach every single goal. But if you set aside time, you're like, this is the time that I'm going to dedicate to this and I'm going to do as much as I can in an hour or half an hour, whatever it happens to be. You end up making little progress along the way. And the little progress, like, well, I did that, I got an email response. And then it builds on itself, right? Yeah, yeah. So that's incredible. And that's what the kind of message that I want to sort of throw out there, that these things are really possible. I mean, you're amazing, don't get me wrong. But I really want the message to be that if somebody else out there wants to do this, they can follow in your footsteps. How much of your success do you feel is natural talent versus how much is hard work?

I would say most of it is hard work. The natural talent comes from having parents who push the idea on you. Like to my brother, my dad introduced the American wheelchair mission. And without that, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't have written children's book, I wouldn't have gone to Ecuador and all those places if I didn't have that push from my dad. And that is hard work. And I also would say it has to do with being a sincere, genuine, authentic person and actually being passionate about the cause that you want people to donate money to, that you want people to support. And as you said, being a kid is very helpful and just not being overwhelmed with the big worldview of, you know, what can stop me, what's the obstacle that I have to overcome? Because as a kid, you can overcome it if you take it step by step.

I think it's great advice. Let me ask you on that topic. If you had a piece of advice for a 6 year old or an 11 year old or a 15 year old listening to this, who maybe want to follow in your footsteps. Do you have any.

I would say, although I'm going to paraphrase it because Malala said it best.

Malala.

That one child, one teacher, one pen, one book can change the world. That you just have to do it.

I love it. That's amazing. I ask every guest this. What is one thing you wish I would have asked you and no one has an answer.

Why is the book called the Perfect Swish?

Bryn, why is the book called the Perfect Swish?

Okay, so in basketball terms, you make a swish, right?

Nothing but net.

Nothing but net. And if you'll read the book the Perfect Swish, you'll maybe see that rabbit has a big victory at the end. And maybe it could be the perfect switch.

I see. And that is a great segue. Thank you, Bryn. Thank you, actually, Bryn, for being on the show. Now, this is the segue. If anyone does want to get a copy of your book, where would they find it?

Amazon. Amazon, Amazon, Amazon, Amazon. If you look the Perfect Swish up on Amazon, you'll find it. I also have Instagram account official. The Perfect Swish is the handle and that has a link to the Amazon account too.

Fantastic. Well, thank you, Bryn. I really appreciate the time. Thanks for being on. Thank you. If you want to learn more about the specific steps our guests took to follow their dreams, go to our website, Danny ruderman.com and become an XU VIP. You will not only get access to all our episodes, but you will also be able to download free guides that have step by step action plans and resources that will help you become extraordinary. If you want to tell us your story or ask for help, go to dannyruderman.com YourStory or reach out via Instagram @dmruderman. You can also subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, please leave us a review. Extraordinary youy is produced by Anna Darling, music by Gee Om Sound editing by Rob Pera Extraordinary youy is a production of Acast.