Ryan Roberts

I'm Danny Ruderman and this is Extraordinary youy, a podcast that shares inspiring stories of young people who've done incredible things and how they did it. Our guest today is ryan Roberts, a 23 year old classical musician who started playing piano when he was 5 and then moved to oboe when he was 11. After graduating Santa Monica High School, Ryan received a Kovner Fellowship to the Juilliard School. Since graduating, he has performed with many of the country's leading Orchestras and won first prize at the International Double Reed Society's 2018 Young Artists Competition. In September 2019, Ryan joined the New York Philharmonic as their new English hornist. Ryan, welcome to xu.

Thanks.

So my first question for you is this. Would you rather have your only mode of transportation be a donkey or a giraffe?

Probably a giraffe. I mean, I'm kind of a tall guy, so it wouldn't be as difficult to get up to.

I guess you would make more of an entrance for sure.

You know, I'd be able to reach more things, maybe climb into some second story windows.

Sure, that's a good start. All right, well, let me tell you, let me ask you a more normal question. Tell me about your family. How did you grow up?

I grew up in a family of musicians, which I guess is a little bit predictable. My mom was from South Africa and she grew up in a musical family. She was classically trained as a violinist and her father was a classical pianist and opera coach. On my dad's side of the family, my dad's a rock and roll drummer and he was professionally when he was younger and he still plays today for fun. And on my dad's side, we have a lot of painters and photographers and architects. And so it's. It was always sort of a very creative environment, I guess, from the very beginning.

And did they encourage you to pick a certain instrument at a certain age or was it just something you wanted to do, being in that kind of household?

It was actually my decision to start playing piano when I was five. We were on vacation in Mammoth and we rented this little condo and there was a keyboard in the condo and I apparently, I don't remember this. Apparently I was just fascinated by this keyboard and I was figuring out all of my favorite songs. And so for my next birthday I received a very cheap old upright piano. And that was how it all began.

Nice. And so, you know, I know that I had piano lessons when I was five and they lasted probably two months. And a lot of students will start lessons, but then either not continue with Them or get burned out at some point. Did you ever go through that, or was it just something. I loved it from day one and kept playing.

There were definitely ups and downs. I think my initial motivation lasted a few years, and it was probably around middle school, high school, that things got kind of tricky. As my social life expanded and I started having friends and classes and, you know, all the other stuff that comes along with being a middle and high school student, I began to feel in some ways like piano was taking me away from the fun parts of growing up, and I had to sort of reassess what place piano was going to occupy in my life. But I ultimately decided that I was going to continue taking it seriously. And I continued playing, you know, throughout college, and I still play now.

Well, so two questions. What about playing piano was taking away from your social life? Was it just the time that you were spending practicing? Was it. Was it that plus you were taking on other instruments, or was it, you know, what was sort of getting in the way?

It really was the time commitment. I had a very, very serious teacher who pushed me really hard, and I'm really grateful for that now in hindsight, but at the time, you know, my mom was required to come to my lessons and take notes, and then she would have to practice with me with the notebook and go through everything. And that was the way it was from, you know, as early as I can remember, all the way through all of my preliminary schooling. And, yeah, it was just a lot of hours spent sitting at home and, you know, practicing when my friends were out doing what normal kids do, I guess.

So what are we talking about? Are we talking a couple hours a day? Are we talking, you know, five hours? How long would you play, if you can remember, on average, when you were, say, 11 or 12?

When I was 11 or 12, I was probably doing around two hours a day, which. Which now, you know, now that I've been to conservatory and I've been around other serious musicians, I found out that really wasn't that much. I mean, I have a lot of friends who were practicing five, five hours a day and were homeschooled all the way throughout high school. Yeah, so I guess I actually didn't have it as hard as I thought I did, but it still felt like a lot for me. And even though I wanted to be a musician, I guess I didn't know specifically that I wanted to be a pianist. And so I think it was just. It was hard for me to see the reason for it as a young person, you know, I thought, well, I have my whole life to practice, so why does it have to be right now?

Well, that was my next question. At what point did you know that music was going to be the thing for you?

I actually get asked this question a lot, and I. I really can't remember the first time. I think it's just always been something that I've known in my life, as corny as it is to say out loud, but I mean, it. It's. It's always something that I have wanted to do. It's always something that I've spent my time doing, and it's always been sort of a part of my identity. I was always the music kid from, you know, right. Elementary school onwards. And it sort of. I guess it just stuck.

Well, and your parents, I assume. Well, I know your parents sort of. They encouraged this. They didn't say, oh, you want to be a professional musician, like that? That's so hard, or that's not a good way to go. You need to back it up with something else. Did you get any of that?

No. I was very, very fortunate to end up with the set of parents that I ended up with. I remember actually having a moving and poignant conversation with my mom when I was applying to college in my senior year, and I was trying to make the decision between studying music at a conservatory or studying music as a music major at a larger university, or maybe even doing a music minor and doing some sort of liberal arts major. And my mom basically just said to me, when you graduate college, you're gonna be 21. And I remember when I was 21, I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. And I think even if you wanted to completely start over at the age of 21 and just choose a completely different career path, you have your entire life, and you've been working towards this for as long as you've been alive. And so now, at the moment that everything matters the most and you sort of take the first step in, you know, into the next part of your life, why then would you decide to do something else?

That's good advice. Makes sense. I remember that too, that you making the decision, saying, I want to go after conservatory. And yes, I was Ryan's college counselor. For those who are listening, I have both students on this podcast, ex students and non students, but I remember this very clearly. And actually I forgot what I was going to say now. So let me think about it. What was I going to say about your. Oh, well, I'll just go on. So you were playing piano. Oh, I know what I was going to say. So it's funny because I remember meeting you at your house when you were probably 16, and you said as a sidebar, oh, by the way, I also like photography. And you just trot out these photographs, which were, to this day, probably some of the best teenage photography I've ever seen. I was like, wait, you do this on the side? So you must have had some sort of artistic streak running in you, right? Do you still do photography, by the way? You know, probably not so much.

As much as I regret to admit it, I don't so much anymore. I think Apple is to blame for that fancy camera on my iPhone and there's no need to lug around my dslr, but. But it's something that I, you know, I've always loved to do. My dad's a photographer and that's how I got into it initially. And yeah, it was, it was a big part of my sort of creative metamorphosis as a high schooler and realizing that, you know, that art was something that I wanted to be around for the rest of my life. Whether I was creating it or, or, you know, immersed in it through my friend group or going to see stuff at museums. It's, you know, it will always be a part of me, but I'm not so much on the creating side of that anymore.

I get it. So you're playing piano in middle school and high school, and at some point around age 11, you say to yourself, you know what? I think I'll pick up a totally different woodwind instrument. Let's go oboe. Why?

Well, actually, the story has one more, one more step to it. And that step is thanks to my school district. Santa Monica Malibu Unified School District SMD SHOUT out Yes. I was fortunate enough to go to a school, a public school for elementary school that required all of its students to play an instrument or be in choir. And so I actually started the clarinet when I was in fourth grade and I took lessons and I was a, you know, relatively serious clarinetist for that age. And it was in the summer between my sixth and seventh grade, I guess, or maybe seventh and eighth, I don't remember. I was at a music camp, also a district, you know, run district funded music camp. And there was a shortage of oboes. And I thought, why not? Oboe's kind of fun, you know, let's give it a shot. And I just thought it would be really cool to, you know, play the hardest instrument. Oboe has this folklore surrounding it, especially in middle school band as being this sort of mysterious creature with all these, you know, twists and turns and challenges that you couldn't even imagine. And it, you know, it was generally regarded by all high schoolers as the most difficult instrument, maybe the bassoon also. But I thought, you know, why not? It'd be a cool challenge. And so I had my band director drive back to our high school during lunch break, or, sorry, middle school, and bring back an oboe. And that's how it all started.

And how quickly did you know that it was your instrument?

That's a good question. I'm not really sure. I sort of remember just starting the oboe and never really looking back. I was in a fantastic music program in my middle and high school, and I had a lot of opportunities to play amazing repertoire. And in high school, I started getting involved with the Colburn School in downtown la. They had some youth orchestras and chamber groups that I became a part of, and everything sort of just, you know, spiraled from there. I really, really, really loved being in a community of musicians. That was something that I didn't really find with piano. As an oboist, you're almost always playing in either a chamber group or in an orchestra. And it was so fun to be able to sort of find a marriage between my social life and my musical life in a way that allowed me to do both and still be productive. And, yeah, it was great.

That makes a lot of sense. So, you know, I know Santa Monica has this really good music program, but what did you do to sort of bolster your resume or get other instruction? I assume that you were taking private lessons in oboe. You know, whether that's once or twice a week, plus you were playing in school every day. Tell us a little bit about your training.

Yeah, so, I mean, the first step was taking private lessons through my teacher. I was connected to or I guess recommended for some opportunities. You know, solo competitions and extracurricular chamber music. Also, you know, the Colburn School thing that I mentioned before, I kind of just sought out every opportunity that I could. And I remember there was one point that I was in, you know, the American Youth Symphony, the Young Musicians Foundation Orchestra, the Colburn Youth Orchestra, the Colburn Honors Woodwind Quinn, and full time at my high school band and my high school orchestra and also a marching band. And I just filled my schedule with as much music as I could possibly find. And because I was in so many ensembles that rehearsed and performed in so many different places, my poor mother, who was working full time, had to drive me everywhere after school. You Know, shuttling me back and forth between Glendale and downtown LA and Santa Monica and, you know, just really all over the place. And so the second I got a driver's license, my parents got me an old beater, you know, vw. And it was the happiest day of their lives and also my lives, because finally they were free from having to be my, you know, 247 shuttle service.

Yeah, like, I mean, I. There's a lot of young people now who aren't getting their driver's licenses because of the Uber generation. And I still say you need to get your driver's license. You have no idea the freedom that it brings. But especially for you, because if you live in Los Angeles, you know that going from Santa Monica to Glendale is a pain.

Yes, it is a pain.

So let me ask you. You were at the time, getting really good grades in high school. You were taking hard classes. You were doing all of these different musical. Taking advantage of all these musical opportunities. And you were practicing. If I recall, you were practicing the first thing you got up in the morning, and then you practiced at night, too, right?

Yeah, I had this funny thing because I took an AM class, so I had to be at school sometime 7:45 or something like that, maybe earlier. And the only way for me to get in practice every single day was to practice at six in the morning before I woke up for school. And we had. We have a laundry room with this big sliding door, this heavy wooden door. And that was the only space in our house that was almost completely soundproof. And so I would practice in there in the mornings, and it was super cramped. And my parents called it Mozart's closet. And, yeah, so that was, you know, that was my way of making sure I had the time for everything. And, yeah, then I would come home from school and go to work, orchestra rehearsal or whatever rehearsal I had that day, and do my homework. And then if I had the energy, I would practice in the evenings. But I remember finding that motivation and finding that energy was one of the hardest things, especially during my junior year when everything is so hectic. I actually had two signs that I had taped to the wall in front of my desk. One of them was, if Britney can survive 2007, you can survive 2013 or whatever year it. And the second sign was, practice oboe or you won't get into college. I swear to God. I had both of those pictures taped on my wall that I would see every day. So I had some good.

That's good. Motivation.

Motivation, yeah.

So how much do you think that you were playing on an average week, how much do you think that you were either practicing on your own or playing in total?

That would probably be hard to quantify. I mean, I was definitely doing at least an hour or two hours a day, if not more during the week and on weekends was when I would have most of my extracurricular rehearsals. You know, I would have at least two or three hours of orchestra and extracurricular stuff in addition to the time that I was practicing. So I was. I was really, really busy. I mean, I was playing a lot of oboe, I remember. Yeah. Whether I was in rehearsal or doing independent practice.

And so how did you balance doing homework and all of this music and having a social life?

Oh, well, easy. You just throw out the social life part. No, it was a challenge. I mean, it's hard to prioritize all three of those equally. I think I definitely prioritized, you know, doing homework and practicing more than having a flourishing social life. But in a way, that was made easier by being involved in so many musical activities that had me around, students that were, you know, that shared the same kind of interest. So a lot of the times it would be meeting friends before or after rehearsals or hanging out during the break. Orchestra has a way of creating a community for you that is really, really helpful, Especially for someone in middle and high school when everyone is searching for that community and that group where they feel safe. That was one thing that I was really, really thankful for.

Is it competitive in the group, too? I mean, is it generally a supportive type of atmosphere, or is there, like, I'm going to be first chair and I will do whatever it takes?

Well, I mean, there's a little bit of both, for sure. I mean, I won't lie. But in my experience, most of the people that I would spend time around were supportive and nice, and a lot of them were even oboe players, if you can believe it.

Yeah, I can't. All the oboe players I've ever known, and for some strange reason, I've known a handful of them. They're all good people. I don't know what it is about oboe, but don't talk about those saxophone players. We don't want to talk about those guys. So I remember when you decided to go the conservatory route when you were a junior or at the end of your junior year, you said, I have to keep taking all these AP classes senior year because you had been on that track. And I said, no, stop it. Because you need to now focus more on your music and less on academics, because if you're going to get into Curtis or Juilliard or wherever, you know, music is number one. It's not that they don't value academics, but I don't need you to take five APs. I think you were pretty happy about that because you dropped a bunch of classes, you took what was necessary. Right. But you really then really stepped it up. Senior year.

Yeah, senior year my schedule was basically as light as I could make it. At that point I started to realize that I was in competition with a lot of other really amazing players. And I had some summer experiences in the National Youth Orchestra, which is an orchestra made up of high school students ages 16 to 19 from around the country that went on tours. And, you know, I got to hear who else was out there for the first time at the, at the absolute highest level. And, and that was a much needed wake up call that sort of lit a fire, so to speak. And I began to take things a little bit more seriously and sort of, I was forced to look at my priorities and yeah, what that meant for me was cutting out some academics that weren't totally necessary and just devoting myself as much as I could to practicing. So I think I only had four classes my senior year, period one through four, and then I could leave at lunch.

Nice. Were there times, Ryan, that you have doubted yourself throughout this process?

Yeah, totally. I think the doubt is something that all artists, maybe especially musicians, have to live with because we are faced with competition and little seven year old prodigies that can play the piano better than you ever could, no matter how much you practice in your life. You know, there's just. There are so many things that make you realize that even though in the grand scheme of the world classical music is a small field, in reality there are so many people who, you know, who want to be famous oboists or famous pianists or famous violinists, whatever. Um, and it does, you know, it requires a lot of reflection and a lot of conscious efforts to reaffirm to yourself that you are, you know, working as hard as you can and that you're seeing results. And yeah, it's something that I think is actually a really good skill for, for anyone to learn, is that you have to sometimes take a step back and look at what you have accomplished so far in your career as a high school student or whatever and just give yourself a little pat on the back to know that, you know that this is something that you can do. Yeah, it's important to do that.

I've also heard from musicians And I am not one that, you know, it's not obviously, a consistent upward trend of improvement. There are times when you absolutely plateau. Right. And you don't know how long that plateau is going to last. Right. So you keep playing with the hopes that you see you make another jump in improvement.

Is that right? Yeah, I think so. And I think that has a lot to do with who you have as a teacher, as a, you know, who your guiding counselor is as a musician. It can be really difficult, especially depending on where you live in the country, to find amazing oboe teachers. I was really lucky to have grown up in la, where I was able to study with the retired principal oboist of the Los Angeles Philharmonic. And that was pure luck. That was just circumstance. But that's not a requirement by any means. I've met so many oboists who come from the middle of nowhere and, you know, whose high school teachers were amateur oboists who found a way to be successful in the real world. And I think I maybe just had a little bit easier because I had that kind of early push. But, yeah, it's not totally necessary to always have the stars align. And I think a lot of that growth can happen in. In college.

Right. Well, and getting to college admissions. I learned a lot by helping you. I'd had musicians before, including an oboist from Sama before you, but what I learned at the time was, number one, when you were in National Youth Orchestra, you had a teacher who ended up being your professor at Juilliard, right?

Yes. Yeah. So when I was in the National Youth Orchestra, I got the opportunity to work with Elaine Duvas, who's principal oboist of the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra, and she is one of the oboe teachers at Juilliard. And she is, to quote her bio, an institution of the oboe. Such a great line. I love that. I mean, it's completely true. She really is one of the foremost pedagogues and players, and she's had an amazing career, and that was a really amazing opportunity and also an opportunity that was open to any oboist who wanted to apply to this program so that, you know, there are ways, if you seek out high level instruction, to get it, no matter where you're from, no matter what your background is.

Well, I have two questions. One is, I think if this is correct, when you were applying, you actually contacted the oboe teachers at some of the top institutions and you went and played with them both so they can give you feedback. Was that correct?

Yeah. Yep. It's a pretty common practice for Classical musicians applying to college. Now that I, you know, say it out loud, it might sound strange to people who are applying to liberal arts college or something to go email all your professors and say, hi, I'm so and so, and I'm from wherever, and blah, blah, blah. But. But all these teachers at these conservatories need to fill their studio with the best students that they can find. And so it's sort of a symbiotic process of students coming and taking trial lessons to see how they work with a specific teacher and how they like a specific school. And it also gives the teacher a chance to get excited about certain students and get to know them before they come and play their official audition.

Yeah, and I wanted to ask that because a lot of students out there who might be listening to this don't know these things. And so I'm a big believer in being proactive and advocating for yourself. And if you are in the middle of Kansas and you're an oboe player, you may not know that you could reach out to a professor at Juilliard and ask these types of questions. And so I'm really happy that you're on so that you can give this sort of perspective to those who might be interested. Let me ask you. I've never asked you this.

Just one piece of advice I would give anyone who wants to contact someone from an institution of higher learning or a conservatory, whatever you want to call it, make sure that you are as professional and polite and courteous as you possibly can be, because it is so important to make a positive first impression on whoever you're speaking to. You know, these could be people that will know for the rest of your life who will be in, you know, in your world and who will either teach you or teach your friends. And it's. It is so important to put as much effort as you can into playing really well in these lessons and being just so careful about all these interactions, because it's hard to take back something stupid that you say as a high school student many years down the line. And I'm not speaking from personal experience, or at least I hope not, but you do have to be really careful about these things. So take it seriously and consider it as important of a step in your application process as, you know, writing your essays or getting your recommendations or even playing an audition.

It's a great, great piece of advice. So tell me, what was the best thing about going to Juilliard?

The best thing about going to Juilliard? Wow. Well, I guess three main things come to Mind. The first is getting to study with Elaine Dubos, who is my teacher.

The institution of oboe.

Yes, yes, the institution of oboe. She gave me so much as a student there and I really, I do owe absolutely everything, every bit of my success to her. The second best thing about going to Juilliard was getting to live in New York. As you know. Sure, 17, 18, 19, 20 year old. It's a really exciting city and it's a city that has something for everyone. And there's always a million things going on on any given night. You could go see, you know, a jazz show in a club downtown, or you could go see the Metropolitan Opera, or you could go see the New York City Ballet, or you could go see a Broadway show, or you could go see a super off Broadway show. You could see experimental theater. You can, you know, go to Brooklyn, go see a techno show. There's, you know, there's so much to do. And that really informed my, you know, my time as a college student. It was just really exciting and it kept me excited about, about music and being in a city where music was so important and such an, a valuable part of the culture. The third best thing about going to Juilliard was getting to play in the Juilliard Orchestra. That was probably the first orchestra that I played in besides the National Youth Orchestra in high school. It's really the first orchestra that just sounded so incredible. It was the first orchestra that sounded like all of the recordings that I, you know, that I had studied for my entire life of New York Philharmonic, Berlin Philharmonic, Chicago, Boston, whatever. I mean, it's a truly, truly exceptional ensemble. And getting to be a part of it was really fun. Not only giving concerts in New York, but also getting to go on tour to Finland and Sweden. And is it just kind of like.

An out of body experience? When you start, you're like, how am I here? Like, what is, what am I doing here? Like, these people are amazing.

Yeah. I remember, I remember being a freshman at Juilliard and meeting you just, you know, you meet so many people when you're new to a school. Juilliard's a very small school. There's around 850 students in all departments, all degree levels. But, you know, I met so many people in my first few months and then every person that I would meet when I would see them perform for the first time, it was like just, it was like cracking open a geode or something. And not that they were, you know, craggy and, and difficult on the outside, but it was just like, you Know, you meet someone who's so nice and fun to hang out with and cool and whatever, and then you see them doing what they have spent their entire life training to do at such a high level, and it's just absolutely incredible. It was one of the most amazing parts of being a young person at that school. Just getting to see all of my peers perform and perform alongside them.

Not only is that amazing, but I have never been a New York guy. I can only visit. I can't. I couldn't think I could live there. But after your description, I said to myself, I'm thinking here, maybe I should have gone to school in New York. That sounds pretty awesome. So you graduate from Juilliard, and I know that there aren't that many positions available for classical musicians around the country. So what is it that you do? I mean, there's got all of these kids graduating. You're now competing against not only students, but professional musicians. So. So what did you do after Juilliard? I guess I should back up and ask this question. Was your goal in Juilliard to be part of the New York Philharmonic or something like that? Is that the dream?

Absolutely, 100%. That was the goal. I was lucky, in a sense that I played the oboe, because in terms of career paths, I don't want to say the only. But one of the only ways to really have a secure life with health insurance, you know, and a salary and whatever is to be an orchestral musician. And being an orchestral oboist is a really, really incredible job. It's, it's really rewarding. We have amazing repertoire in, in the symphony. And. Yeah, so that was, that was always my goal. That's what I was trained to do on the most specific level through my teacher and the curriculum at Juilliard. When I graduated from Juilliard, I went to the New World Symphony, which is sort of like a holding cell in a way. A very glamorous holding cell in Miami beach in a Frank Gehry designed hall with Michael Tilson Thomas as your music director. But it's, it's basically a program where orchestral musicians who haven't won orchestral positions yet get just the last little bit of training that they need before they move into their full time professional life. And I was really grateful for that program because how it works for a lot of orchestral musicians is that you kind of just go to school until you win an audition. So starting in my last year of undergrad, I started taking professional orchestra auditions and doing very well. But I, you know, I didn't Win a job in my undergrad. And so the next step for most people is to do a master's and then maybe a performance diploma or a doctorate even, and to just kind of, you know, go to school. Yeah. Keep playing. And also have a way to play in ensembles. Like, you know, you'd stay in the Juilliard Orchestra if I went there for masters. But the New World Symphony accomplishes the same thing in sort of a. I guess a larger way, a more specific way, in that it's targeted specifically for orchestral musicians who want to win orchestra jobs. And I was in that program for eight months before I won my audition for the New York Philharmonic in April of 2019.

So let's talk about that for a few minutes. So what do you see an ad in the paper? Know that there is a oboist, or in your case, English horn. Let's. Let's back up a bit. I don't even. I still don't know the answer to this question. You are the English hornist, slash oboist. So apparently they must be similar to a neophyte like me who doesn't know the difference between the instruments. What are the differences?

It's a good question. It's not a very complicated answer. Basically, the English horn is the auxiliary instrument of the oboe. So it is bigger than an oboe, but it has basically the same fingerings, it has a different reed. In terms of relationship, I usually say that, you know, the flute is to the piccolo as the oboe is to the English horn. So everyone starts on oboe, everyone starts on flute. And then the auxiliary instruments are additional. They're added on, usually in conservatory or in your, you know, more advanced high school studies.

Got it.

The English hornist in an orchestra has a very interesting role. The English horn is a very soloistic instrument in orchestral writing. And because it's not part of standard orchestral, you know, or. Sorry, it's not part of the standard orchestration of like, let's say, a Mozart symphony or a Beethoven symphony or something. When composers started adding in English horn parts, it was always for a reason. So there's usually a big solo moment that features English horn. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And it's a funny job because a lot of the times I am doing nothing, and then I'll have a huge solo, and then I'll do nothing.

So you just sit there and listen sometimes, Yeah.

I mean, if the English horn is only written into one movement, I'll listen to the movements I'm not in, and then I'll play my solo movement. And then I'll go back to listening sometimes.

Interesting.

And this explains the English horn, slash oboe part. Sometimes the English horn part will be written into one of the oboe parts. So I'll switch between oboe 3 and English horn. For example, this week we're playing the Alpine Symphony by Strauss, which has four oboes in it. Sorry, three oboes and a hecklephone. But that's a whole. That's another conversation. But my part is oboe three, English horn. And so obviously all the big soloistic material is in the English horn part. But sometimes I switch over to oboe to play what are called, like, the 2D passages, which is where the whole orchestra is playing and just some added sound. So I switch back and forth. But English horn is the meat and potatoes of my job.

Got it. And so you find out one way or another that there is an opening and there's auditions for the New York Philharmonic. And what do you do? Do you have to send in a pre screen? Do you just show up with your instrument and be like, all right, let's do this? How does that work?

So orchestral positions are advertised in the same way that any job would be. We have websites, you know, musical chairs is the one for us. I love that pun.

Nice.

It's where all of the jobs are posted around the world. And I saw that there was an opening in the New York Philharmonic. And also this was, you know, when it's a smaller orchestra, sometimes you have to find out about them. But when a job opens up in, you know, the New York Philharmonic, most people will know about it. So the first step was sending a resume, which I did. And I had been successful and come close to winning a few big orchestra auditions before I took this audition. So I think because of that early success, I was granted a live audition immediately. For some people, they would have had to make audition tapes if their resume maybe wasn't strong enough to. To be granted a live audition. But I went straight to the live round, and I'm not sure how many people were at the audition. It was under 100, I'm sure.

Under a hundred? Yeah.

Again, I don't know the exact number, but. Wow.

Okay, that's still.

There's. Yeah, that's a lot of people.

These are 100 professional musicians. These aren't, you know, high schoolers who are trying to get in. These are people who have all gone to schools. I'm flexing for you a little bit right here now. So do you have to hear the other people play, or do you just come in, play and then Leave.

Depending on the audition, you sometimes hear other people play. In this particular audition, I only heard I think a little bit of maybe the person playing before me. But we had private warm up rooms, which was great. Sometimes it's a communal warm up room and that's always kind of a drag because it's like seeing everyone else, you know, getting all the right answers on the SAT while you're taking it or something. I don't know. But yeah. So there's a preliminary round where everybody plays and you're broken up into groups of around five people. And so there's a committee that's sitting in the hall, in the audience, behind a big screen, a big black curtain.

Wow.

You walk out on stage and you play. The first round was I think around 10 minutes, maybe 12 minutes. And you play a short, you know, selection of excerpts that they've provided for you. And then the committee votes after every five people of which people will advance to the next round. And so, you know, I was advanced to the semifinal round. And so in the semi final round, the first round was an English horn round and then the second round was an oboe round. Because oboe is a big part of the job as well.

Right.

And so I played twice that day. And then.

Is this just nerve wracking? Is this like the most nerve wracking thing ever?

It's absolutely the worst experience ever. I mean, there are all these, there are all these musicians now who are creating these audition blogs and how to be, you know, a bulletproof audition taker and this and that. It's terrible no matter what you do. I mean, you can meditate, you can take beta blockers, you can, you know, drink herbal tea, whatever, but it just, it sucks for everyone. It's a very unnatural way of making music because you can, you know, it can feel like you're taking a test. And also the worst part is waiting around. I mean, you have to get to the hall at 10 in the morning and you might not play until 1pm wow.

And then you just wait till what do they post it on a piece of paper outside the door? Like, how do you know that you've made it to the next round?

The audition proctor will come into the waiting room where everyone is sitting and they will announce the numbers that have reached to the next round. So they'll say, thank you all for coming. Usually a lot of the times it's thank you all so much for coming. Unfortunately, the committee has decided not to advance anyone from this round. The amount of times that you hear that, it's just heartbreaking. And a lot of these people have flown from across the country, maybe even from another country to come to these auditions. So it's always heartbreaking when nobody is advanced, but, yeah, they come out and announce your numbers.

So you make it to the semis, then you make it to the finals.

Yes.

And what do you have to do for the finals?

So the final round. Each round gets a little bit longer each time, so the final round is the longest, and it's probably around 35 minutes of music, I would say. It's a long time on stage. You play with a pianist for the first time in that round. And also the final round for this particular audition was the only round that was not behind a screen. So this is the first time that you see, you know, who is on the committee. So our music director is, you know, is sitting in the hall as well as a lot of, you know, a lot of my colleagues now, but at the time, you know, members of the New York Philharmonic. Um, and. And, yeah, it's. For me, it was actually easier in the final round because it feels more personal when you're playing for a black curtain and you're sitting on the only chair on this huge stage. It can feel like you're taking a test.

I can't. I can't imagine.

But when people are there watching you, at least there's a personal connection and it's, you know, a little bit more freeing in that way.

And when did you find out that you had gotten it?

Well, there's many more steps, but, yeah, I mean, everyone played, and then it was the same thing where we were in the waiting room, and then the proctor came down and announced my name, and I cried a lot.

So they do it right that same day, they just come down and say, ryan, you're at.

Yes.

And you just. And in that moment, how did you felt?

Well, it was funny because I really had not even considered that moment in any way in my preparation for this audition. I just worked as hard as I possibly could, and I was as well prepared as I could have hoped to be. And I realized that I just had never thought past the final round, like, what happens afterwards. And so everyone left the room, and it was me and our orchestra manager. And I just, like, totally broke down. It was very embarrassing.

I mean, I honestly, I don't know how you couldn't. All of those years spent practicing. You're, you know, 22. Although I'm sure that a lot of people were older than you, had been playing a lot longer, but still the level of commitment. And this is, you know, not to, not to shoot down other orchestras, but this is the New York Philharmonic. This is big boy town. This is a big deal, right? So are you, I think you told me that you are the second youngest, right?

Yes. So actually, one of my very good friends, Allison is, was hired around the same time, like within a few weeks of me. And she is our new associate principal flutist. And I found out to my dismay that she is one week younger than me. But it's, it's okay because we're very, very good friends. And yeah, it's really nice having another young person as a new member of the orchestra just to share experiences with.

I mean, I know I have, you know, I see kids all the time get into their, their, their colleges and that's an amazing, life changing experience. But what did you do? Do you just run and pick up your phone and call your parents? Do you just go out in the town and live it up? What did you do?

Well, I first had a little meeting with the committee where I met everyone who was listening to me. And that was actually one of the most emotional parts of the whole process. This was the third audition that was held for my job and the position had been vacant for around nine years. So it had been a really, really long search. And it made it even more special to get to, you know, meet everyone on the committee and sort of share this experience together and, yeah, and meet all of the people who I now spend every day with. And they were so warm and so incredibly welcoming and supportive and yeah, it was a really special moment. And then after that, I sort of just walked outside and actually the very first person that I saw was someone who worked in the admissions office at Juilliard.

Oh, nice.

And I had worked as a tour guide when I was a student at Juilliard. And I, so I was, you know, this was such a wonderful, familiar face to see. And she sort of asked me, she's like, oh, what are you doing? And I was like, I just, I, like, was probably completely incoherent. I was like, I just want a job at the New York Philharmonic. And yeah, that was, that was a pretty crazy moment. And I, I, I must admit that I actually think I called my teacher before I called my mom.

My mom. Sorry, Mom. But I, I'm sorry, Mom.

I called Elaine first and she was over the moon for me. And then I called my mom and my mom just kept on saying, what? What, what do you mean? What do you what? And I was like, yeah, I won the audition. What do you mean? What do you. What. What are you talking about? And then.

That's amazing.

A lot of tears. It was a very teary day, and I was living in Miami at the time, and it felt so strange because I had only been there for a few months, and I didn't have a home in New York, and yet New York felt so much like home to me, still.

Sure.

I was staying with one of my best friends in the world, Tamara, who's also an oboist. And I went back to her apartment and told her what happened, and it was just sort of this.

More tears?

Yeah, it was this incredible moment. And we had. You know, we had lived together when we were in New York and struggled through a lot of the same stuff together as students. And it was. Yeah, it was sort of a full circle moment. One of those magical days that were forever.

And I can tell, even though I wasn't involved in your musical education, you know, to walk you through the application process to Juilliard and now see you here even at such a young age, that's why teachers do what they do. So, Ryan, there's three questions I typically ask all my guests, and the first one is, how much of your success do you feel is natural talent? And how much do you feel is hard work?

All right, this is a tough one to answer, but I want to try and answer it as honestly as I can, because I. I feel like, especially as a student at Juilliard, I saw the complete spectrum of answers to this question. I saw people who could really just not, you know, not practice for a week and sound just absolutely incredible. And then I knew people who worked so. So incredibly hard and would still struggle in some situations. I think, personally, I would say about 60% of it was natural ability for me, and 40% of it was hard work. Now, I want to qualify that by saying that the hard work part was a lot of hard work, and it still is a lot of hard work. And it's by no means, you know, to say that I am relying completely on my natural talent to, you know, to create the career that I have so far. But I will not lie when saying that I do think that I, you know, I came from a background that was very creative. I had a lot of musicians in my family. I was around music from a really, really, really young age. And I think I had sort of the perfect combination of environment and opportunities and maybe some amount of just natural ability, innate ability. But the thing that I noticed about all the students that would Rely completely on their natural ability when I was in school is that they will get far. I won't lie, they will get far. But without a doubt, the ones that are the absolute best are the ones that have some amount of natural ability but work as hard as they possibly can all the time. There's no exceptions to that at the highest level.

Great, thank you. Here's the second question. What advice would you give to a 6 year old, an 11 year old or a 15 year old who's interested in classical music?

All right, My advice to a six year old is learn piano.

Okay?

No matter what instrument you play, learn piano also. It is the most important foundational, just building block of being a great classical musician. And one thing that surprised me in my career was to find out how many of my colleagues now at the professional level are amazing pianists. And I do not think that is a coincidence at all. That would be my advice. To a 6 year old, an 11 year old, I would say try to make music as fun as it possibly can be for you. So get involved in, you know, whatever branch of music makes you the happiest. Listen to whatever music you want to, whether it's classical or rock and roll or jazz or hip hop or, you know, whatever it is. I think at that age, cultivating passion is the most important thing because all the hard work will fuel you for the rest of your life. But you have to figure out at that point if you really love it. To a 15 year old, I would say you are just on the precipice of when things are about to get really, really serious. Maybe they have already gotten really serious for this particular 15 year old. But. But just know that everything is a combination of that passion that I was talking about for the 11 year old and the work ethic of, you know, or the work ethic that's expected of any adult in any field.

That's wonderful. Thank you. And my final question that no one can answer is, is there one thing you wish I would have asked you in the last 45 minutes or so?

Well, you didn't ask me anything about reeds. And I think this is the first interview I have ever given about the oboeworth.

Well, that's funny because a single question about reeds, that's funny because I was gonna, about 20 minutes ago, I was gonna say, because I remember you actually learning how to make them yourself and saying, well, let's talk about reeds. And in the flow of the conversation I thought, I don't know if anybody will really understand the complexity of reeds. It's true, but it is insane. I don't know how much time you.

Spent complexity of reed making.

I mean, it's so important to the instrument, right? Are you. You're making your own reads, I take it?

Yeah. And it's of my practice time, it is probably 60% reads, 40% practice, maybe even 65. Yeah. Wow.

Well, Ryan, thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate it. It's so great to see you successful and I wish you all the best.

Thanks. It was a pleasure and thank you for having me.

If you want to learn more about Ryan, as well as the specific steps he took to follow his dreams of becoming a classical musician, go to our website dannyruderman.com and become an XU VIP. You will not only get access to all our episodes, but you will also be able to download free guides that have step by step action plans and resources that will help you become extraordinary. For help, go to Danny ruderman.com YourStory or reach out via Instagram at dmruterman. You can also subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, please leave us a review. Extraordinary youy is produced by Anna Darling, Music by Geom, Sound editing by Rob Pera. Extraordinary youy is a production of Acast.