50 Shades of Dave with Mistress Natalie

Foreign.

A state of high performance.

You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today's cool fact of the day is that a recent Canadian study has shown that bdsm, that's like bondage fantasies, are really common in both men and women. About 51% of women fantasize about being tied up, while 46% want to be in charge. On the other hand, I have no idea what the other small percentage left over. About 3% apparently are asexual. On the other hand, 53% of men fantasize about being dominated and 46% think about spanking for sexual pleasure. And contrary to the characters in Fifty Shades of Grey, studies also show that BDSM participants are just as healthy as psychologically about sex as people who do it the old fashioned way. Today's episode is going to delve into some of those things. I don't think we're going to get too, what's the word for it, too graphic here. However, I have no idea exactly how graphic it'll get. So if you are listening with people in the car who are impressionable and need to know nothing about what we're going to talk about, you could skip this episode. And that's all right. Before we get into today's guest, and by now you're going, who is this woman who's going to be on the show? You'll know in a minute. Let's talk about what you can do to your bulletproof coffee to upgrade your sex drive a little bit. There's something called bulletproof cacao butter. And of course there's bulletproof chocolate powder. You can mix these into your bulletproof coffee and you get more like a mocha flavor without the sweetness. You can put a bit of xylitol from birch trees in if you want the sweet. But cacao, both the oil and the powder contain something called pea or phenylethyl. I can never say this word right. Phenylethanylamine, which is a mood enhancing compound that stimulates endorphins and basically the neurochemicals of pleasure. Those chemicals are also known to improve your libido. The Journal of Sexual Medicine says that women who enjoy chocolate every day have a more active sex life than those who don't. And it's summer. You can't even get the bulletproof chocolate bars right now. But we have lab tested chocolate bars that are laced with brain octane and zero sugar. So what I do during the cold months is I'll ship those to you and during the hot Months. I stop shipping them, but I stock up. So I still have about 50 of these bulletproof chocolate bars at home. So I'm never without my chocolate. Sorry, you missed out, but you can check out the cacao powder and cacao butter on bulletproof dot com. All right, today's guest is Mistress Natalie. She is a professional dominatrix, a certified life coach, and an entrepreneur. She's got about 20 years of doing something called BDSM. And we're going to have a scientific conversation about why and how and what happens there. She's done pretty much everything that I could think of there. Bondage, corporal punishment, humiliation, something called slut training. You can tell us what that is. Medical torment, Financial domination. That is an impressive one. Getting people to fetishize, giving you money like that has to be the ultimate hack. Hypnosis and other techniques, things like that. So that's impressive and totally unusual. And it's a form of biohacking for sure. And we'll get into why I believe that's the case. The other reason that you're on the show, and I'm saying you, because. Hey, Mr. Snobili, say hello.

Hi.

The other reason I wanted you on the show today is that you hit 240 pounds when you were a teenager. You were a vegan on a very restricted calorie diet. You broke your health. So we actually have very similar health journeys where being heavy as a teenager doesn't work out very well. And for people who are watching the video on YouTube, go to bulletproofexec.com YouTube in order to find the YouTube channel. You'll see that Mistress Natalie is, I think, technically very attractive would be the right way of putting it. Is that accurate? What do you think?

I hope so.

See, I was trying to make you toot your own horn there and get you to do it.

No, sorry. Only when I'm in my professional mode will I toot my own horn ad nauseam.

Exactly as it should be. The reason that I wanted to have you on the show here is that this is actually really a common thing. Fifty Shades of Grey was an incredible bestseller and just overwhelming in terms of the amount of interest in it. And it's hard to go to safeway without seeing 50 shades of gray on the shelf. It's entered the national consciousness, and there's a lot of interesting psychology that comes out with this kind of stuff, from what I've heard. And I'm from Silicon Valley, Kitts, Bay Area. They do this stuff all over the.

Place all the time. Yeah.

And some of the things like inversion therapy, this is just from our conversations ahead of time. I hang upside down. You hang people upside down, maybe slightly differently. Sensory deprivation can induce profound changes in your brain. I have a sensory deprivation tank. And one of the techniques that you use is actually like blindfolding and plugging people's ears and stuff like that. So they've got nowhere to go but inside their mind, even though maybe they have less control there. You do a lot of electrical stim. It sounds like I do a lot of electrical stim.

And so many similarities.

It seems like a bit of a stretch, but there's probably some physiology going on here that we can dig in on. And finally, you talk about chastity play, which I'm very intrigued to hear about because longtime listeners know that I gave a talk, Jeez, it's going back about four or five years, about how ejaculating too frequently actually sucks your energy and makes you. At least for men, I don't believe it's particularly healthy. Based on tantra and based on a year of experimenting with going up to 30 days without ejaculating. This is not without sex, just without ejaculation. So I believe that there's probably some cool stuff going on here, and I just wanted to talk to one of the world's experts on this. So welcome to the show, and this is going to be fun and interesting, and we'll see if it's titillating or not.

I think it should be. And yeah, I mean, all of the things that you mentioned, definitely the parallels that I can see as someone who started biohacking about four years ago now and doing what I've been doing for about 22, I'm drawing all these connections in my mind, being like, oh, my God, I didn't realize what I've been doing for the past 22 years have a lot of similarities with the things people do and biohacking and self improvement and other parts of life, so. So it was very interesting for me when the brain started to make these connections. I was like, hey, wait a minute. So hopefully we can bring some of those to light.

Now, let's talk about your definition of bdsm. So there are people listening, and there's all kinds of preconceived notions about this. I've had a few friends who are super into bdsm, and they all like different things. And it seems like a very broad definition, but. So tell the audience how you define it. And let's just go through your story and then talk about what it does for people. So first, what is it?

Well, the acronym is bondage, discipline, dominant submission, and sadomasochism. But again, those words mean a lot of different things to different people, especially when you put them all together. And it definitely excludes another part of bdsm, which is fetishism. So the actual acronym doesn't really represent the whole picture, and it is hugely, hugely just wide open to people's perception of what they consider bdsm. For me, because I've been practicing for so long and I have a lot of interests, it could be a range of things, but I could tell you instead of maybe what exactly it is, is what it's not, at least for me in my professional and personal life. It's not about really, truly hurting somebody. It's not about being completely selfish, and it's not about being this demanding, overarching, stereotypical woman who's just using and debasing another human being. It's really about using kinky things, counterculture things, fetish, and some of the things we would associate with bdsm, you know, bondage and leather and restraints and restriction and punishment to sort of get a person to where they need to be. And that's why what I do is so broad, because it's completely individualized. I'm there as a sort of facilitator more than anything else. And it all is in this context of a power exchange. I'm the one in charge, you're the one not in charge. But in reality, all of the boundaries and interests have been set up ahead of time, so nothing would ever go on that wasn't already approved from both ends. So for me, it's really more about getting somebody to go someplace that they need to go through fetish and kinky, outside of the box avenues.

So what is really happening there is that you're setting up something ahead of time with someone, or they're saying, these are the things that I want to experience. And then you are helping them experience this. And, okay, what do you get out of it, other than paid?

Actually, it's really interesting. I fell into this when I was very, very young. And I always had an interest, one in things that were medical and anything that was counterculture. You know, punk rock music, you know, leather, chains. When I was young, Motley Crue had, like, a video, and, like, they saw the girls and these outfits. And so that's why I was originally attracted to it and sort of fell into it. But then as I started developing my own interests, I realized what I got out of it, above everything else, was knowing that the person left me feeling better than when they walked through the door. And having your job be where you can make somebody feel better is the best job that there possibly is. So, you know, I get emails and letters and things that have literally brought me to tears with gratitude and thanking me and seeing how essential our play and what we do is in their life, making them better parents, better colleagues, just better people themselves. I mean, what more could you ask for?

The people I know who practice bdsm, several of them have told me it's therapeutic. They feel somehow just different when they're done, and that it's not necessarily sexual. Do you have sex with your clients?

Not at all. Actually. I would say that there is only a fraction of my clients who actually orgasm during our time together. And it's never anything that I sort of facilitate. So if anything, it's kind of the opposite of that. It takes sex, or what we think of as traditional sex, and it really brings it to a mental level. So there's a lot of physical things going on, but it's not sex in the traditional way, especially the way men think of it, which is a very physical act that can only really be exemplified by completion with an orgasm. And for many of my subs and slaves, that's not even broached. And for the ones that it is, it's an interplay oftentimes. You had mentioned chastity. I have a large percentage of my subs who, during our playtime are actually in chastity the whole time. Because when that's not the focus, then all of these other things can be realized and all these other experiences can be brought to light. And, I mean, on many levels, what.

Does in chastity mean?

There's various devices that you can actually wear that sort of keep your genitals from getting an erection and that you can't stimulate it at all. So it's just sort of being locked away.

So you have to, like, padlock the equipment there. All right. So you kind of take that off the table at the beginning.

Just take. Like. This has nothing to do with what we're about to do. You're locked up. I have the key. Maybe you'll get it back. We'll see.

Okay.

You know, sometimes I'll keep the key, give them a. A key in a lockbox with a combination, and then they have to wait X number of days for hopefully, the email that comes in.

So you send them home, and they're still padlocked. Wow. I guess the TSA must have wives.

They love it.

The wives love it.

Well, if they're a couple and the couple is okay with this kind of play, you know, a lot of times their assignments, you know, they'll have assignments to really give their partner a lot of attention. And all of a sudden the focus just all goes on pleasing somebody else.

So you have wives who send their husbands to you?

I have a few, but it's more like they're couples and the wives are okay with the play, but really just don't have an interest in participating. And some will participate a little bit to the level of they know and will be incorporated that way. And some are just like, you know, do what you want to do. That's totally fine. I understand this is part of you, but I don't get it. It's not in me, and I want to be that person.

Okay, do you have, do you have women who are clients as well?

I do. A smaller percentage, I think, for a couple of different reasons. One, in our society, I still don't think it's okay for women to pay for what's considered sexual services, whereas with men it's, you know, totally acceptable. So I think that plays a lot into it. And also I just don't think a lot of dominant females gear their audience towards submissive females. So I just don't think from a general marketing perspective that a lot of women really know about it unless they search it out.

So you mentioned that you just felt attracted to this as a young person. How did you become a professional, though? I'm sure there's lots of people who experiment when they're young who are attracted to all sorts of things. But then you took it one step further. When did you decide that you were going to charge for this?

It was a total accident, to be honest. This was back in like 1993. So there's no Internet, there's nothing. I had no idea that this existed as a career. And while I had interests in it, I still didn't understand it to any sort of real level. It was like imagery that was attractive to me. And it was just a friend of mine who I hadn't seen for a couple of years was working in this role play domination house, and I bumped into her on a weekend home from college and she's like, hey, come to work with me. And you know, you're 19, not even 19, 18. And you're like, you know, sure, whatever. And I go hanging out with her and you don't think, oh, what do you do? Where are you Working. And things started to develop as the day went on. I was like, what is this place? And she explained it to me, and I was fascinated. I mean, I just thought it was wonderful, but I didn't think it would be anything I could do. 1. I had lost a significant amount of weight, but was still very overweight. I was probably about 170 or 80 pounds and just getting over being.

What are you now?

Just for comparison, about 140.

Okay, so you're much lighter now and you're at a healthy weight.

Yes. And I was 240, so I was still. And I was overweight since, you know, kindergarten. So I saw these, you know, attractive women and these little outfits, and I was like, oh, that could. That could never be me. You know, I'm the fat girl that never had a boyfriend. And I just started hanging out there and watching and just being the eyes. Until one day, you know, my friend just sort of literally dragged me into the session room. And I don't remember the session. I just remember afterwards, she was like, oh, my God, how did you know how to say that and do that? I've been doing this for a year and I didn't know to do that. And I was just like, I don't know. And so the woman who owned the place was like, work for me. And I was in college. I was like, ah, I could pay for school. So I started coming home every weekend and practicing and playing and paying for school. And after about a year, when I started to get a little confidence, I was like, I really think this is something for me, probably also because it changed my perspective about myself completely. Here I was ingrained in me that there was something really wrong with me. My whole life, it was always the, you'd be pretty if you lost weight, or you'd be, you know, much more attractive if, if, if. And, you know, boys didn't talk to me. And all of a sudden, these men who were 30 years my senior were just like, oh. And I was like, what the hell is this about? So it started to slowly help transform the perception of myself, which I think was very cathartic. And something could take people decades to do that I was able to really have done in this kinky, crazy, underground, seedy environment. So it was always really positive for me. It was never anything negative.

So it helped you. It brought you catharsis. And what does it bring for your clients? I mean, they're actually. How much does it cost?

It really depends. I am definitely the upper end of the spectrum, and I have my Own private studio with no other employees in midtown Manhattan.

Okay. So it's gonna be very expensive because you're in New York City.

Yeah. My sessions range, depending on how long I've known you and how long you're playing, between 250 and 400 hourly if I don't travel.

And this is without sex. Like, that's not what you do.

Oh, no sex at all. It's all just BDSM and fetish and role play to various degrees.

That's about, in New York, what you spend on a good massage. 250 bucks is a massage, right?

Yeah. And if you go to a shrink, you're easily paying 400 an hour somewhere right in the middle.

Okay, so you're a life coach, too. So how much do you consider what you do psychological versus physical?

At this point, I would say It's a good 85% psychological. But I have 22 years of getting a group of subs that are probably more interested in the psychological benefits and the deeper connection that this can give. I don't take on a lot of new people at this point in my career, and if I do, they really have to be interested in sort of the overarching sense of what BDSM can give and not just the. The physical aspect of it, because I feel that's fleeting. So if you can tap into the mental aspects of it, that'll just keep giving and giving and giving. I have some subs now that are in their mid to late 70s. Wow. And when other things start to not work so well and the body can't handle as much, because I've been seeing them for 10 and up to 16 years consistently, you know, the brain is still very active and you can continue getting such joy out of things and that. That sense of total relief and stress relieving from the mental aspect. So me personally, my style is way more mental than physical.

So do you get turned on when you do it?

I get turned on between my ears, but not between my thighs. Okay. And that's something people ask. You know, I'm also constantly thinking the entire time. So, you know, even if I was doing, say, a very simple foot fetish session where somebody's rubbing my feet, which, yes, I could say, oh, yes, that feels good. That is a wonderful sensation. But my brain is more concentrating on where is this going? Where are they at in this particular part of the seat? When is it time to do something else? So it's never something where I'm just going to be, like, sitting back and enjoying sexual pleasure. Doesn't really do it for me.

So you're spending your energy basically being in charge and figuring stuff out so the other person lets go, but you're not going to be letting go.

Exactly. It's constantly reading body language, audible sounds, checking on things, especially during heavier scenes where very restrictive bondage or other intense activities going on. You know, I'm looking at it not just from the mental perspective, but then also the physical perspective of I'm the one completely in charge in this situation. They are trusting me 1000% to make sure that everything goes well. So it's a huge responsibility. And so the brain is always going.

And thinking, what's the riskiest part of what you do?

I guess there's a couple of things that are risky. One is when you're pushing heavy play, just making sure the person's gonna physically be okay.

Heavy play. This is like spanking really hard or whipping them or something.

Well, you know, spanking really hard and whipping. Unless you are doing something you shouldn't, like whipping over the kidney area or doing some wraparounds, probably going to be okay. There's not a lot of damage that can happen from that. But I've heard some pretty nasty horror stories where people were doing some nipple play and they had clamps on that were pretty. What they call alligator clamps, and the woman didn't understand and like, tugged on them and literally, you know, rips, you know, off the nipple. Yeah. So that sort of stuff. But for me, personally, I love medical, and I do a lot of heavy medical scenes with catheters and sounds and colonics and scrotal inflation and piercing and. Yeah, so I'm always looking, making sure things are sterile and clean and, you know, the person is reacting okay, to whatever it is that I'm doing, just on a health standpoint. And also breath play. If you do restricted breathing, hypoxic breathing, you know, you really have to be in tune with the person that you're doing this with to make sure that they're going to be okay. I've had people had, you know, panic attacks or, you know, get nauseous. So you just really need to watch that physical aspect. And then the risky thing on other levels is, you know, in New York, I mean, technically, BDSM is legal, but there's always this, like, sort of gray area. If you look at the letter of the law. There's no, like, law that says, oh, yes, this is legal. So, you know, you really have to watch and worry and wonder who's coming through the door. Before you see them from that standpoint. And also their mental soundness before you see them on, even if it's not from a legal standpoint. Just like, is this a safe person? I am alone with a stranger. If you're seeing them for the first time in a room doing all of these things that are supposed to push somebody's boundaries, like, are they stable? Are they going to flip out on you? So there's a couple of risky things.

There that could definitely be scary. I hadn't quite thought about that. So that leads to another question here. Stereotypically, people would say, look, people who like this stuff, clearly there's something deviant about them. There's something wrong with them. Like they're sick, right? Like there's something abnormal. They've said the same thing about gay people and about, like, people of other minorities. There's always. That's a group of other people. But what we're finding from this study I talked about at the beginning is like, half of people are at least fantasizing about this stuff. So there's probably something to it. What do you say to people who are like, okay, you need psychological help, essentially?

Unfortunately, society doesn't approve of BDSM and fetish. But if you were to look at some things that I believe have very masochistic tendencies, and a lot of other people may question and never want to do in their life, but never cast aside as them being, you know, off in some way. You know, you look at people who want to skydive or jump out of planes or the people who do, you know, marathons or ultra marathons or triathlons or these obstacle course races and, you know, punishing their bodies again and again and again and doing some what I would consider extraordinarily masochistic things, but they are applauded for this. You know, it's like, it's masculine. It's. It's the thing to do. It's like, yeah, and it's like, who says that that is any more sick or disturbed or twisted than what they decide to do to sort of get the same effects, you know, feeling of accomplishment. And you made it through a challenge and you're putting your body, these rigors and you're getting out of your headspace. To me, it's just society says X, Y and Z is wrong. And, you know, some doctors a long time ago said, well, this isn't the way that it should be. And we live in a very puritanical culture and our roots come from that. I think if you look at BDSM and fetish in other cultures, you know, even like in Germany, Europe, in general, Canada. It's really not frowned upon like it is here in the US So you just look at the activities and look at some of the other activities we do that we give the thumbs up to, and you might want to.

A lot of the activities you just mentioned, there are things that put people in a flow state. And I've interviewed the flow state genome guys. In fact, I'm their first investor in the flow genome project. So, I mean, is BDSM something that puts people in a state of flow?

Oh, definitely, without a doubt. In the community, generally people call it subspace, but yeah, it can, if done properly, really put the person who's participating in it in a serious state of flow. And the after effects can last days where there's focus, there's relaxation, there's clarity. So I would see a huge parallel between the two.

Okay, so people are coming to you, they're pushing their boundaries. And we know from the research on flow that pushing your boundaries puts you in a state of flow. And what you've got going on here is you're pushing different boundaries than your ability to run even further in a marathon or something. You're pushing your boundaries. What is the boundary that you're pushing?

It seems like for everybody it's different. You know, I think for some people, running a half marathon would get them into that state if they weren't trained. And for other people, they'd have to run three marathons. So everybody's sort of trail path to get to that state is different. That's why it's really important to sort of communicate with them. For some people, it's, you know, physical, say corporal punishment. One spirit specific thing, you know, spanking, flogging, whipping, slowly, gradually building up, taking more and more intensity, more and more severe pieces of equipment over a period of time until they get there. And some people can get there really quickly. And again, some people, you know, takes them quite a bit of time and a lot more pushing. Same for bondage. You know, restriction for. For some people it's simple, it's a blindfold or a gag. And for others, it literally has to be head and neck immobilization, blindfold, gag, straight jacket, body bag, toe bondage. But it could be any of these activities to really push that person.

It sounds kind of like an addiction because you start out with just one, and then you need two, and then you need three. Is this like smoking or is this like an opiate? An Endorphin addiction.

Like, well, I don't know if it's so much an addiction for some people, I think just like with marathoners, like, one marathon will always be enough. Like, that will always be more than enough. But for other people, they do one marathon and it's like, no, I want to try ultra marathoning. So I have people I've been seeing for literally 15 years, and what would get them into flow is still the same as it was about 15 years ago. And then there are the more, more, more people. And that's a lot more challenging because sometimes I need to rein it in and be like, no, there isn't more, more, more. Like, this has to. You have to learn to sort of adjust your expectations to what we, what we have right here. Because it's not really healthy to keep expecting and always wanting bigger and better and more. It's not possible. But then there are those self experimenters who do like to try a little bit of everything. So that's always fun. So for a couple of years, maybe it's one thing, and then, you know, they need to try something else, go down a different path. And being really self aware helps them sort of see, like, okay, this isn't giving me what I really need it to give me anymore. I would like to try X, Y and Z.

Do you ever have clients who, you know, tried all the things they wanted to try and they're like, oh, I got that out of my system. I'm done. I don't like BDSM anymore.

Like, I'm usually, It's not. I don't like BDSM anymore. It's usually like, instead of coming for a session or practicing BDSM every week or every month for a couple of years, it may be a once a year thing or twice a year thing, whereas it's no longer necessary to do it on a, on a consistent basis.

Are they really just working through like old traumas they have just kind of re experiencing them in a safe place?

Like some. Yeah, of course. I really, I really do believe that that is some and some in a very positive way. You know, something traumatic happens to you, X, Y and Z. So you're taking it, you're. You're owning it yourself and then you're sexualizing it and making it this positive thing. So it is definitely a form of therapy if you're working through something like that. But for other people, you know, one of my subs is always like, I don't know, I would just way rather get spanked than get A massage. And it just hits certain parts in the brain that are more satisfying and pleasurable than things that people with traditional traditionally see as, you know, positively affecting their mental state and physical well being.

I've done this 40 years of Zen, very advanced intensive neurofeedback training program with clients, some of whom have, you know, have BDSM inclinations. And people get very personal during this kind of things. It's kind of like therapeutic, but we have a process that goes through and removes traumas. And it's very interesting because I'm hearing analogs to what you do. What we do is we put all the electrodes on your head, we show you how to go into a very deep alpha state, which is one of the most reliable ways to put yourself in an alpha state is to have a sexual fantasy.

Interesting. I did not know that.

If you're stuck in the neurofeedback pod and we have this like, it looks like Xavier's School for the Gifted, the facility where we do this. So you're in this, like this mansion and you're in a fiberglass pod, and you've got all these speakers and headphones and things. And then you're like, I can't make my brain do what I want it to do. So you're like, think about whatever turns you on the most. And for your set of clients, it would be probably getting tied up or whatever. For someone else, it may be, this is my wife or my husband. But then you can see the brain waves like dun, dun, dun, dunk. And like suddenly they're back in the zone. So it's a way of getting unstuck. And what we do in that program is we show you what your inhibitions and negative thoughts actually are. Because there's a lie detector. You can't hide from your internal dialogue with a lie detector telling you, no, no, no. But then in order to undo that, in order to release yourself from that, we actually have you go back and re experience the psychological pain, the physical sensation of the pain that caused your trauma. And oftentimes I was bullied in fifth grade and I remember what it felt like when they pushed me down the stairs. And it creates physical things in the body, like the emotions are stuck somewhere. And what you do is you re experience whatever you felt at that time in life, but then you re experience it as you are now. And then you raise your alpha brain waves, which has the effect of basically unwriting the rule in your nervous system so you can let go. And what I'm hearing you Say here is that someone comes in if they did have some trauma. And it sounds like a lot of the stuff you're doing is birth related. Right. Like you're squished and it's sticky and you can't move and you're coming out. By the way, I was born with a cord wrapped around my neck, so I had lots of birth trauma. I've processed a lot all that stuff, so I don't carry that with me the way I used to. But what I could see happening here is someone goes in, you put them in a place via physical sensation that triggers whatever is stuck in them. And then now they're experiencing a place where they know they're safe because they could always call a safe word or do whatever in order to say, I need to stop here. So they now re experience a sense of control, whereas the first time they felt that they didn't have control and then they feel better for a while afterwards. Is that.

Yeah, no, that's very, very similar to what I do. I mean, I didn't understand exactly what happened with the neurofeedback, but it's strikingly similar. Scarily so, actually.

Yeah. If you want to feel what a very high alpha brainwave state looks like, have an orgasm. Like when they look at your brain on orgasm, that's what happens. You don't have to actually have an orgasm. You just need to be turned on and your alpha brain notes go up. So you are absolutely putting people in an alpha brain state when you do that. And probably a theta brain state too, if they're hallucinating. And sensory deprivation, like the flow tank.

Oh, yeah, definitely. People will remember things that didn't actually happen when we review the session because their brain is literally seeing things that aren't there or hearing things that aren't there. It's really interesting to sort of review afterwards.

Okay, so they're basically in a daydream state, which is a theta brain state. Same thing that you get from floating in a sensory tank. People experience stuff that didn't happen because the brain's like, what do I do? I don't have enough input. And in your case, because you've got them blindfolded, whatever. So there are some really weird, deep parallels to biohacking. And bottom line is if someone gets into an alpha state or a theta state, an alpha state is usually a good state and a theta state. If it's a controlled theta state where you're daydreaming and experiencing good things when you want to do it, it's Also a very powerful thing. So, okay, you're helping people get into altered states that then lets them process stuff.

And on the other side, there's also the opposite of just being very present, which I think people today are hardly ever truly present. And when you walk through the door, you know, the cell phones get shut off. There's no, you know, texting, there's no emailing, there's. There's none of that. I mean, just the break from all of that. In an environment where you must focus 100% of your energy on what's going on directly in front of you with zero distraction. And I'm there to really make sure that that focus is kept for the entire time. An hour, two hours, is very powerful to really just know that you really can't be distracted by anything else that's going on in your brain or in life once you walk through that door.

So it's a focus exercise for people then. It reminds me of my buddy Manish Sethi. Maneesh runs Pavlok, a company that has a wristband that'll shock you if you misbehave. You can either have your friends on Facebook shock you. By the way, you'd probably like this. I don't know where you put this little stocking bracelet, but I'm actually an investor in Pavlok.

Oh, I have to look into this.

I'll introduce you if you want. But Maneesh got sort of famous. He's very adhd and he hired a woman on Craigslist to come and slap him in the face every time he used Facebook so he could get work done. It helped him focus and that ended up becoming the genesis for his wristband. And the idea there is when he does something that he doesn't like, he literally shocks himself so his nervous system will behave. And he's had people quit smoking and done all these other things. The name, even Pavlok is Pavlov and lock. He wanted the bracelet to lock on so you couldn't take it off and so other people could shock you if you didn't go to the gym when you said you would. I think he's morphed the business model a bit from there, but it kind of has a few shades of what you're talking about.

Oh, definitely. It really does. I have a lot of my subs have sort of they're under contract to get to the gym or, you know, eat certain way or have their weigh ins and, you know, there's definitely repercussions if those guidelines aren't followed.

Okay. So what does under contract mean as a way of losing weight? I mean, who knows?

This is particular to people who thrive under that sort of hard rule. Just like, you know, some people, they could do a boot camp style workout and having somebody yell in their face and be really aggressive and sort of debase them gets them motivated, whereas other people will turn around and walk out the door. So you need to know who, who you're dealing with when, when you do something like this and who needs what sort of, sort of interaction and which would be beneficial. And so for a few of my subs who are very serious about sort of improving their life and health, especially since, you know, if I know somebody five years, seven years, 10 years, I tell them, like, this is long term. This relationship isn't going anywhere. You need to be the best you that you can be in order to please me. So they're really working very hard to better themselves because it'll make me happy. And to facilitate this, you know, if they need to lose weight, they're on high blood pressure medication, they're on, you know, the traditional American diet and they can't. And they sit behind a desk for God knows how many hours a day and don't really get any activity. So they sort of are, okay, you want to continue this relationship, you're going to sign a contract and I come up with the parameters of, you know, weekly weigh ins and you're going to stay between this five pound range and you're going to make sure to do X, Y and Z amount of exercise and you know, take a vacation or whatever it is. And literally I have like weekly check ins to make sure that they're, they're doing what they're supposed to do.

So what would happen if someone didn't make a way in or ate something they weren't supposed to eat? Like, what, what do you do?

Well, you know, it's interesting. Again, everybody is different. You would think that, you know, okay, you're gonna get punished. But wait, you like to be punished? That doesn't really work. So oftentimes their punishment is they don't get to come in and see me.

Or else you like banish them.

Yeah, it's like, okay, you didn't do what you were supposed to do. You don't get to come in and see me until you have another chance to prove to me that you're gonna follow through on what you're supposed to do. So it's sort of like the worst punishment. There are other lesser ones. You know, somebody is like, okay, I really hate my nipples to be touched or played with. So sort of mild infraction would be like, all right, you didn't do what you're supposed to do. I'm gonna spend an hour just completely torturing your nipples because we both know that you really truly don't like it.

Okay? So you find something they don't like. So if you look, compare what you do with a normal life coach, which is, you know, you should really try to hold yourself accountable. You're like, if you don't do it, I'm basically going to make your nipples hurt for a week.

Yeah, I'm holding them accountable.

That sounds like kind of a scary coach, but I can see how that would be motivating.

It's, it's. And again, everybody's different and the ramifications are different for everybody. But it is somebody that you, you have to check in with and you know, by the point, I'm making a contract with someone. We already have a very established relationship. So more than anything, the idea of disappointing somebody that they trust and look up to is probably the biggest accountability. It's like, because I'll be like, well, why, you know, why did you have beer and pizza? It's like, you know, you're not supposed to have gluten. Like, what are you doing? They're like, I knew I was out, I was this, I was that. And you know, they know that they shouldn't have done it. They don't have to tell me. They could lie, you know, but they literally say, I made a poor choice. I just want to let you know. And then I sort of go through the whole, well, here are better choices, etc. Etc. But yeah, accountability.

So I run the bulletproof coach training program, which is a certification program. I actually can't say I run it, Dr. Mark runs it, but I helped to design it and I'm a part of the training curriculum and it's based on my work. And like we co designed it. And a big part of that for coaches is holding someone accountable. And there are weekly check ins but they're like, did you do it? And if not, well, I guess there really isn't any consequence to not doing it except you just have to tell your coach, yeah, I was busy this week, so I didn't do what I said I was going to do nutritionally, business wise or anything else. You just, I guess, carry a bigger stick than the average executive coach or life coach.

I do. I'm able to definitely push their accountability a little bit further by giving them some really nasty punishments if they don't follow through. Yeah. So it's. It's. It's a lot more fun.

I can imagine what I've learned through doing neurofeedback and this 40 years of Zen thing. 10 weeks of my life. Just like with a lie detector, there's the ego. There's a process that runs inside of you that something is making the decision to eat the gluten or to not do what you said you're going to do. And either it's you, or it's another process inside of you. And I don't know how many times when I was obese, I'm like, I'm not gonna eat the cookie. And then by the end of the meeting where there's a plate of cookies, like, I ate the cookie and I'm like, damn it. I'm so weak. But at the end of the day, my understanding of my own consciousness now is that actually there's just another consciousness inside my body that's working, like, in my body's best interest, not what I want. Like, it's the animal side of things. And so it sounds like what you're doing there, if you tell someone, like, you're in charge and you're deciding, you're taking that part of them away from them, you're taking it away. So it's not in the decision loop, so it doesn't intervene. So are you able to see people quit smoking or people stop really hard habits using these techniques?

I haven't had anybody want to quit smoking as far as one person, but I didn't know them very well. So for me, I told them, I was like, to be honest, I could try, but I don't think that this is gonna work. We don't have enough of a vested interest in each other for you to really listen to me.

Okay.

Basically. But for other people. Yeah. I mean, I got somebody to lose 100 pounds.

Okay. That's pretty. That's pretty legit. How did you. How did you do that? Like. Like, I want to hear the other things of it. Like, how do you get someone to lose £100 by.

Well, there's a couple of people who've lost more than 50.

Wow.

Yeah. I mean, I'm so proud. So, so proud of them. It's absolutely amazing. Again, accountability is a large part of it. And, you know, they don't want to disappoint me. That's another really huge aspect to this because we already have a relationship, and they don't want to come in and be disappointed. And then there's always the fear of if I'm disappointing and I'm not living up to what I say I'm going to do. I'm not going to get to participate in this activity and have this relationship anymore. Because I make it very clear that if they're not serious, then I'm just not going to see them. And you know, I'm going to. I'm not going to invest my time and energy into this relationship unless you come to me with the same amount that I'm going to bring, because I'm always going to bring 100%. So I expect the same out of my subs. And that really, really drives them because they know I never phoned it. So if I'm preparing and I'm planning and I'm putting things together and I'm being very particular to their needs or interests, they need to sort of give me the same in return. And as far as the hundred pounds, it was very interesting being £240 at one point myself, £100 more than I weigh now. I completely understand what it's like to be on that side of things. So if someone comes to me and they're heavy or overweight, you know, it's weird. I'm almost like blind to it. People bring up they need to lose weight or this or that, But I don't see people in that way just because I think I had different perceptions visually of myself and other people. So that doesn't come into play. So I'll never force it. But if they come to me and say, hey, I really want to lose weight, I know you have lost a lot of weight. Can we sort of work on this? So we come up with a plan that I think would work for them given all of the little triggers that I know about the particular person and the person who lost the hundred pounds. We had traveled for a session and they were having a really hard time getting around. You know, they couldn't even come close to keeping up. And they saw I kept having to slow everything I did down. And their lack of energy and abilities really hindered the trip that we were on. And that prompted them to start to lose weight and ask me all sorts of health advice right away. So it wasn't like a contract situation or a weekly weigh in situation. It was that they saw how their weight really impacted being around and physical. And then after maybe the first £40, planning another trip, the person really wanted to go and do a physical activity that I didn't. They hadn't done in many, many, many, many years. And I was really couldn't believe in their physical condition they could do. And I said, if you think you can physically handle it, I'll go on that trip with you. And when I saw them two months later, they had, you know, dropped, I don't know, like £20. And then I was like, perfect. I was like, let's start planning the trip. And so in planning for this trip, every time I'd see them £20. £20. £20. And then they said to me, which is what I suspected, is that I didn't want to go to a beach area and walk around with you looking the way that I used to look, because I would have embarrassed you.

Wow.

I mean, talk about powerful. You know, it's like, that is powerful. You know, it really almost brings tears to my eyes to just think just the relationship that we had would make them do something like lose £100 after, you know, trying and struggling for so long. Did I know that that little trip was going to cause this effect? Absolutely not. But once I saw what it was doing, I totally picked up on that and then started having all the things that I could do, putting it in place to make sure that they would continue down that path.

What other big behavior changes have you seen in clients?

You know, definitely getting more physically active. I deal with a lot of people who have very high stress jobs, lawyers, finance, and they are just standing at a desk, sitting unfortunately at a desk for so long. So getting people to be physically active and literally forcing them to go to yoga with me, go rock climbing with me. Like, I literally make it part of our session, our playtime. I mean, they're probably wearing panties and other things on underneath, which makes it a little interesting. Rock climbing and chastity, that's fun. But, yeah, definitely take that and start to physically bring them with me. And then again with the whole, I don't want to disappoint you, they start to do it on their own. So that way the next time we do it, they're. They're better at what they do and it starts to incorporate them, you know, starts to get incorporated into their routine. So I've turned many, many people onto yoga because I think that especially for men in high stress jobs, you know, just sitting, breathing and stretching a little bit is one of the best things. And people who are more into being physically fit, going for hikes or rock climbing or things of that nature. So that's been huge. And then diet change, you know, really getting rid of the standard American diet and giving them a lot of information and resources about bulletproof diet and, you know, paleo and keto, seeing sort of what can fit into their life and imparting all of the things I've learned through experimenting with myself on them. And since I've known them for so long, they've seen the changes in me. They've seen when I was vegetarian, vegan, you know, endurance, compulsive exercising to sort of the lifestyle that I have now. And they're all like, you look five years younger now than you did. I'm like, what are you doing? I was like, well, if you want.

To know, you're in ketosis now, right? You use bulletproof coffee, I think.

Yes, I sure do. Every morning for the past, probably almost three years now.

Oh, wow. Okay. So you're a ketogenic dominatrix, which is cool.

I am. I go in and out.

Thank you. I'm a huge fan of going in and out as well. I think especially for women, it's maybe preferable. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, I do do usually about two, two and a half months of like, strict keto, like right before photo shoot. Because then after that, the last time I went for a long stretch, more than three months, I did have issues. I go to the doctor every three months for my blood work and my thyroid dropped and my hormones got all out of balance. My hair started falling out again. All, you know, my amenorrhea came back. So I was like, okay. For me personally, being in strict ketosis every day for more than two months, it's not good for me. But going in and out, for sure, especially for the cognitive benefits. My grandmother passed away of Alzheimer's and I have the genes, so I'm like, this is something I should do.

Yeah. And it's a question of, do you want to do it every week, every month, as long as you're in it some of the time, or in my case, when working with women especially, just having some ketones present seems to be really important. So even if you're not full blown in ketosis, if you're using brain octane, you can get enough ketones that you've got the brain benefits. Even if you did eat some carbs, which maybe helped with your monthly hormone fluctuations, it's very individualized.

Yeah. I'm usually anywhere between like 0.5 and 1.4.

Beautiful.

And if I could get like a 0.8, I'm like, really happy. I'm like, all right, that's good. That's all I need. Just Right there.

What we're talking about for listeners is just the number you get when you stick your finger with a ketone monitor. I'm happy if I'm at 0.5. Anything above 0.5 is cool, but 0.5 is where the hunger changes happen and where my cognitive benefits kick in and anything above that. I'm not dealing with cancer or Alzheimer's or neurodegeneration, at least not anymore. I probably was dealing with neurodegeneration when I was in my 20s. But I think the ketone number for each person varies dramatically based on who they are. Let's see. There's a couple more questions I have for you. I'm just looking through all the stuff that we've talked about so far. Okay. One of them is you mentioned slut training. What is slut training?

Okay. Slut training is actually one of my favorite things to do and it plays into lot of role reversal. So basically it's taking this guy who's probably, you know, pretty guys guy kind of guy, either, you know, Wall street or lawyer or construction worker, and taking the role and reversing it. And one, we never call men sluts. That's, you know, that's a term that's only used for women in a pretty derogatory one. So it's fun to sort of take whatever sexual arousal that they're feeling and sort of call them a slut just because it's something that's counterculture, something you're not supposed to do, and then emasculate them with a pair of panties, stockings, and make them do sort of feminine things. And a lot of my clients are very into the whole imagery of a female, female with a strap on. It's a fetish. So putting them in a position where I'm literally wearing, you know, the genitals of a guy and they are forced into this position of being more like a woman, a maid. Crawl around, nails painted lipstick. It could go pretty far to full transformation. But even if it's just embracing sort of their sexuality in a non masculine way, I think men approach sex in a certain way and they always have to be the one in charge. And it's all about the orgasm. But when you sort of flip it on them and make them moan and like touch their own body and sort of get in touch with that more feminine side of themselves, it's an interesting mind flip and to see what it does to them and the sort of creativity that they come up with and the letting go of preconceived Nose trends and boundaries and just sort of diving into this place. And, I mean, if you were outside looking in, you would think it was ridiculous. You know, here's this 6 foot 4 guy who's burly with a beard and a bra and panties, rolling around on the floor, touching himself and moaning like a girl. I mean, the imagery, I mean, honestly, if the outsider looking in would be like, this is just stupid. But when you're in the moment and, you know, you're sort of being told to do these things that are really challenging you. I mean, challenging your masculinity, challenging who you are as a person doing all these feminine things that you're not supposed to do, you're breaking all of these boundaries and notions of who you are as a person. And sort of putting yourself in that situation is very challenging. But I also think pretty cathartic for a lot of guys, getting them to just be more in tune with their emotions and their intuition. I had one person say, after a couple of years, did lots of sled training, he's like, you know, this whole thing, I have to thank you for the huge boost in the career that I have had, because I have literally been able to change the way that I think when I approach things now. And it's no longer from this sort of, you know, narrow, focused, masculine, this is the way the job is supposed to be done kind of way. And I've really started thinking outside of the box and going in areas other people were scared to go. And he's like, my business has just shot through the roof. And he's like, I have you to thank for it. My sissy training.

Is sissy training the same as flood training? It's the same thing.

Yeah. It's interchangeable. And these are words that, if you look them up in Urban Dictionary or whatever, will have a lot of definitions, but it's basically role reversal with elements of feminization, usually clothing thrown into.

Got it. Okay. And this is basically making people or men in positions of masculine energy or positions of power basically face more of a feminine side of things.

Yeah. And the terminology also, at least in the state of New York, like, any sort of play with a strap on is not legal.

So is it wearing it's not legal or using it's not legal?

No, wearing it's not. Fine. But any instrument where there's an exchange of money, and if you look at the law, I believe the technical law for prostitution is if there is sexual gratification that is paid for, it's prostitution. So it's Very loose. So if you get off on, you know, getting a root canal and you pay for it, technically, you know, that could be considered prostitution. So you have to be sort of very creative with how you come up with things because you never want to get in trouble for doing something that you're not supposed to do on a legal standpoint. So the whole sissy slut training generally also implies there could be strap on worship or penetration with it to some degree.

Okay, got it. So you definitely take it all the way. Then do you find that there's a kind of guy who's like a stereotypical client? You always hear stuff about, like, people who are in a position of power all the time, like that they're the ones who are most likely to be going to a dominatrix. Is that actually true or is it just like a mismatch?

80% of the time it is really true, at least for me. Also, the type of client and stuff that I see, they're not lifestyle submissive. Like they don't live 247 as a submissive. I like it much better when they're in a relationship or have a career. And this is just a part of their personality because I can't dedicate as much time as would be needed as if they wanted to do this all of the time. So the person coming to me generally is your type A personality. Always in charge, always in control. You know, head of household has a position of power at job, a lot of responsibility. And you know that responsibility could vary. They're not always like making tons of money. It could just be high stress, lots of people beneath them that they're managing, whatever it is. But yeah, I'd say a good 80, 85% are your total type A total in control, always in charge person. And they want to not be in control in a very controlled way because obviously all the parameters are set up beforehand. So it's this huge relief and they're like, oh, wow, I get to listen to somebody else for a change. And I actually trust this person. So it's okay to let go of being in control because I have confidence in this person and listening to them. A lot of people who are that type A, you know, they don't let go of that control because they don't feel that there's anybody around them who would do the job as good as they would do or have the abilities that they do. So if I can come across in a way that they understand that I can handle being in charge of them, it's really exciting. To be like, oh, my God, I get to just totally let go.

And you, like, you send these guys back to work, like in padlocks and panties and things like that.

I oftentimes think, like, when I'm sitting on a crowded subway train, like, how many people have a garter belt on? How many people are in chastity who's wearing nipple clamps? Who has a remote control vibrating butt plug inside of them?

But do you think that there are people on every subway car doing that?

I don't know if it's every subway car, but maybe the whole train.

There's definitely people like that. So I guess just start looking around for panty lines on your favorite executive and actually don't do that. You probably don't want to know.

It was so fun. I went to a great restaurant here in New York City, Le Bernardin, one of my favorite restaurants. And thank God it was kind of cool out. But literally under his suit, he had a full latex jumper. So he was wearing latex from, like here to his mid thigh, covered in latex. A chastity device. He. He had an electric remote control, electric plug. So it was inserted anally and it was like an e stim. Now I have the remote on my side of the table and a little box is in his suit pocket that's.

Oh, my God.

And you know, he's just about to take a sip of wine and zip.

And you're just sitting there in a restaurant in public and no one has any idea. My God.

No clue. No clue. And the best is when it could be sort of visible bondage, but no one has clue. Like, I have one of the neck braces that you wear for trauma when they put you on, like a board. So you take someone out and you put them in something like that, and they're sitting there and they can't move, and you're like, good luck eating. And people just think they're hurt.

Oh, my God. So you're totally just taking them out there. That. That's. I never would have imagined that.

Oh, yes. My domination is definitely. I like to bring it beyond the room if possible, especially when you know somebody. Some of my sessions are over the course of a couple of days, and we do do outings to various places, like I said, you know, rock climbing in panties, out to dinner with all sorts of things going on. Nipples, clamps, bras under your clothes.

I mean, but don't like, don't people, like, see a bra under clothes? Like, wouldn't people like in the restaurant if they saw that, like, feel uncomfortable about it, like.

Well, the wonderful thing about living in New York.

Fair point.

Yes. Unless you're on fire, I don't think anybody's gonna notice anything.

Okay.

Also, I'm personally taking it on as a project of mine to bring a little bit of grit and fun back to the city, because I think the whole cities become way too sanitized. So whenever I get a chance to do something in public that maybe turns a few heads, like walking down the street handcuffed to somebody, I think it's a good thing for Manhattan.

You're fine to push some buttons. Apparently that's like your day job is pushing people's buttons. So you're happy to do it. Okay.

I'm fine with totally discreet. You know, that's perfect. And I could do that very, very well. Especially if bra, panties, stockings, under a suit, no one's gonna notice that. You know, there's absolutely no way. If you have a jacket on. And as long as it's not, you know, you're not wearing a tight, tight shirt, you're wearing a fitted shirt, no one's gonna notice. But everyone, the person wearing it will feel like everybody's gonna notice.

Got it. So it's really a mind game.

Yeah.

Okay. Who would have thought, right? I'm never gonna ride the subway again thinking the same thing. So you're also an entrepreneur. So you've run your own business for 20 years, and you're doing it in a very unusual niche market, but you're a one woman operation, and you're sort of put on this pedestal as like an unattainable kind of thing. What's it like behind the scenes, like actually running your business?

Oh, it's crazy. I left working for, like, commercial houses and the woman who I was with for many years, I think it's 11 years ago now, so I officially started 11 years ago, and I also had a custom baking business at the time that I was sort of launching and then building my dungeon and studio. And it is challenging. There is very little delegation that can be done in my job. So it's sort of like almost everything does have to be be done by me, which becomes a lot of work. And just like any other business, it's like I have to make sure supplies are bought and places clean and bills are paid and, you know, don't you.

Have subs to do all that for you for free?

Well, one, the thing about subs and clean, I do have one who will help clean when they're available. Most of My subs, they don't have time like me. They're.

They're all.

They have to survive in New York yesterday.

They're all street people. Okay, got it.

They don't have time. So it's one of those things. And the few that do definitely do give an effort, but there's also that thing I hate to say, but unless you do it yourself, it's never going to get done 100%. So there's that aspect of it.

So you have control issues is what I hear. Sorry.

I do delegate a little bit. It is very challenging. Especially like the email and call content. It's like, I can't put that off to somebody else. It's like I. This is like personal. This is.

I feel the same way about the bulletproof content. It's. It's hard when I work with people. I hear you.

But I do. I do have one, One slave who, you know, when I need my packages, he will definitely make himself available, especially with big, heavy things. He will come and clean my studio. He just fixed a light switch that needed to be fixed forever. So he was in there this morning. You know, I gave him the keys. He was able to fix that. So that's a big help. But people don't see the real business side of it. And it's more challenging doing what I do, getting a lease, doing my taxes. It's like there's no line for dominatrix. So then you have to be really creative with sort of what you do to make all of that work as well. And things go wrong and you just have to sort of navigate it and fix it and make sure that everything is in order and the lights turned on and the equipment is clean and you have the supplies that you need and then you can go in and have fun and then go back out and do your social media and Facebook and emails and bill paying and everything else.

How many hours a week do you work?

I think a better question is how many? I don't. And that's probably the seven hours that I sleep.

So you work a lot then?

I do. I mean, it's too much. This is not like, I'm not promoting this for anybody who's trying for better health. Don't think I don't know that this is not optimal, but there's a lot of things for me. One, maintaining my own private studio, plus my own apartment in Manhattan. My overhead is really ridiculous. That is a big portion of this as well as I have to be realistic about the future of what I'm doing. I've had my studio for 11 years, and the rent is extraordinarily high right now. My lease is coming up soon. I realistically don't know how many years I have left doing this in this format. So I'm really trying to make the most of it in the next couple of years. So if I need to sort of. Of change what I do to a certain degree, I will have enough to cover me if I need to take a step back and sort of regroup. So that's driving me a lot right now to sort of get to that place where I feel a little bit more. More comfortable. But I love what I do, too. So then there's this. I feel I put a lot of pressure on myself to make sure everything is perfect, which we know it can never be. And I put a lot of time and thought, probably way more than is necessary into what I do, because it means a lot to me to make sure when I step into that room, I really am giving 100% and making sure that person is going to have the best session every time, even if it's our 500th session.

What percentage of your time do you spend in sessions versus the other part of running your company?

Yeah, I mean, the session time is very little. You know, maybe two to three hours with the client in the room a day, you know, five days a week. And the rest is, you know, for every. Basically for every hour that I'm in the room, it's usually about three hours of work, putting the plan together, getting the equipment ready, prepping beforehand, cleaning up afterwards. So that's a general one to three sort of ratio.

So you're working pretty hard. You make $400 an hour, but you got two things in New York. And so I can see why you're working a lot of hours. You're in a pretty expensive market.

Yeah, and I'm in Midtown, you know, so it's definitely very, very, very expensive. And there's the whole thing, like, you know, there's no sick days, there's no paid vacation. There's none of that sort of stuff. So that always plays into it. Taking time off is a little challenging.

Talk with me about financial domination. You mentioned that earlier. At least I came across that as I was researching for this show. I don't think we talked about that earlier. What is financial domination? And couldn't that be a solution to all of your problems?

Financial domination? Yeah, it is basically where somebody fetishizes giving you money. I have not mastered this skill. There are women out there who that is their thing. Like, they really are into financial domination. I could say it's something that I didn't quite understand when I first started getting into it because I always felt like I was cheating them, like, just as a person. And that was probably my own misconception because they want to be in that position. But I obviously had a hang up about money and taking something, feeling like I wasn't doing something for that something. So it was never a specific area that I sort of grew my skills in. Unfortunately, at this point I'm like, that would have been a better path and avenue for me to take. But I have a few people who I see more over like Skype or the phone that I do do some financial domination with.

So it's basically like, you know, I'm having a hard time imagining that. So this is someone who actually just like derives pleasure from being like, take my money.

Pretty much. There's the, you're gonna pay me and you're not worthy. So, you know, go sit in the corner or turn around and leave or I'm gonna do 30 other things while. While you sit there and watch me and pay me for it. I know some other girls, they do a lot. And it's like, okay, I'm going out to dinner with my friends and you're gonna pay for the entire dinner for those six people and you're just gonna listen to us on the phone and then they'll make little comments and some humiliating comments while they're having dinner. And yeah, then.

So you're like, you're pushing buttons about self worth or something? Something, basically, yeah. Okay, definitely. That is interesting. But I guess if you, if you have someone who's consenting as an adult and that pushes buttons for them, I don't have any problems with it, but it seems like that'd be convenient to have in New York.

It definitely would be. But, you know, I guess from my perspective, it's always really important for me to make sure my sub leaves feeling way better than when you walk through the door. So until I have an established relationship with you, I don't know if I could tell right away. Unless you had experience in financial domination, if that was sort of your thing. So I would always be hesitant to sort of suggest that right off the bat.

It seems ethically risky for some reason.

Yeah. From my perspective, it could be. And I think, like I said, a lot of people, they have their skills honed to know how to navigate that situation. Situation. But it was something I never really sort of fell into. I Heard some horror stories. I think probably the first five or six years I was doing it where, you know, sort of like, oh, they were given a credit card or bank account access and it went sort of horribly wrong and the person changed their mind. And then there was, like, legal troubles and I was like, you know, I think I'm gonna step away from that one.

That just feels sketchy to me. But, you know, I wouldn't judge someone who really genuinely derived pleasure from that.

Yeah, and there are. I mean, I know it and I've seen it. I just don't feel I have that. That's not one of my top skill sets. A few people, once I know them, I'll be like, okay, but if there's anybody out there who wants to be financially dominated, feel free to contact me.

All right, Mistress Natalie, I'll take you on now. We're coming up on the end of the show. I guess we went longer than a normal show because, well, frankly, it's pretty fascinating to see, like, just to ask a bunch of these questions that I'm sure a lot of listeners, if they've ever thought of it, and like, what, What I want to ask you the question that I've asked all the guests on the show, which is that, okay, someone comes to you tomorrow and says, I want to kick ass at everything, like, I want to perform better at life. What are the three most important things that I should know? What would you tell them, given your very unusual journey through life?

I would say the first thing would be be self aware. And if you're not, definitely look into finding out who you are as a person and what it is that you like and what really makes you tick or who do you really want to be? Because I think too many times in life we are stuck doing a whole bunch of stuff that we don't really want to do because everyone tells us we should and it'll make us happy. And most people wind up being miserable. So really finding a lot of self awareness is going to be the first thing that's super important. Then have some sort of, like, practice of being grateful for things, even things that you might think you shouldn't be grateful for. Finding some way to really look at your life and be like, wow, I'm grateful for X more Y and Z, and do that on a pretty consistent basis because I think that gets lost in the looking for more, trying to be better, or getting down on yourself. So that would be number two. Number three would probably be to make sure to confront. Confront your fears, you know, Challenge yourself in some way. I like to personally do one thing that's going to scare the crap out of me every year. Like one big, like, this is really scary to me and I'm gonna do it. And it doesn't have to be a big thing, but just, you know, even if they're small fears, like you'd be surprised how amazing it feels to actually confront the fear. And then you realize the fear of the fear was way worse than the fear itself and it could hold you back from a lot in life. So those would probably be the three things that I would suggest for anybody who wants to really kick ass in this world.

That's a fantastic list. The thing about confronting something that makes you afraid every year is not an answer. I've heard that often. But it's so important and it's something that I'd certainly practice. If I find anything that makes me uncomfortable, I'm like, I must have some sort of a trigger around that. I guess I'll try it and see what the trigger is so I can deprogram the trigger. Because basically I don't want to have unconscious your reactions to things. So pushing your own buttons is there's value to that.

I have a huge fear of falling completely like off the charts. And this year's big challenge is a thousand foot climb in the flatirons for rock climbing. So I will be wearing my diaper and having lots of tissues for when I cry and poop myself. But, you know, it's all good. I'm ready for it.

That is. It actually takes a lot of courage to do something that really, really makes you afraid. So that's cool.

Yeah.

Now, Mistress Natalie, where can people find out more about you?

My website is mistressnatalie.com so that would probably be the best place. There are some videos up, another interview that I did, some videos of my studio and a plethora of information photos going back to the early years and then early 2000s and sort of my statement about what I do and philosophies. And then I have my blog which is definitely more graphic. So if you're squeamish, that might not be the place to start.

So you just tripled your traffic levels when you said that? Oh no, not a graphic blog. That'd be terrible. And then if people wanted to work with you just for life coaching without you tying them up. Do you do that?

Yeah, I do. It's definitely something that I don't do as much of just because I don't have the time. Okay, got it and obviously the. Just the. From the financial aspect of. Doesn't make as much sense for me to spend more time doing that. Also, I really love the BDSM aspect and combining the two, but if somebody wanted to separate the two, totally up for it, love to do it. Especially if it's on a health, nutrition, self exploration sort of front. Like if you want life coaching and you're in the business world and you want that, it's not really my expertise, but entrepreneurs, you know, that sort of stuff.

All right, well, thank you for being on Bulletproof Radio. I'm. I'm sure given that somewhere between a quarter and half a million people will hear this interview, that you might find at least one or two of them who are probably going to come and meet you in New York. So maybe we can keep your studio thriving for a while longer. That would be great if you've sat and listened to our relatively long interview today. I hope it was valuable to you in your car or if you're watching on YouTube, that's bulletproofexec.com YouTube to find the YouTube channel. You can subscribe to that. There'll be a transcript of all this in case you need to go back and look up what slut training actually is or any of the other unusual things that we talked about that are pretty different from what you probably read in 50 shades of grey, if you could actually make it through that book. And on that note, Mr. Snapley, anything else you'd like to say to the audience before we sign off?

Just keep listening to this absolutely amazing podcast and I hope that there are a lot of people out there who got something beneficial out of it.

Thanks for being on Bulletproof Radio.

Thank you.

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Want that? It's not really my expertise, but entrepreneurs, you know, that sort of.