Activate Invisible Networks of Movement in Your Muscles with Weird Tech Mike Hoban

Foreign.

A state of high performance.

You're going to want to listen through all the way to the end of today's show because you'll learn a really cool technique to turn on a muscle in your body called the psoas that is probably tight, at least if you sit most of the time like a lot of us do. It's something that is completely non obvious and it's a really cool hack. So listen through, learn about that and learn about some new tech that's coming out of Sweden. Pretty interesting stuff today. You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today's cool fact of the day is that scientists discovered brain pipes or drain pipes in our brains, and they scanned healthy people at the NIH and found that your brain actually dumps waste products through the lymphatic system. If you don't know what the lymphatic system is, this is basically the sewage system of your body that doesn't have its own circulatory system. This is why I'll tell you in the books and pretty much everyone will tell you, like, move around some, already go for a walk. It's because that pumps the lymphatic system, which is really important. That's why I'll do whole body vibration just to get the gunk out of the cells so that it can drain and be excreted. But we always thought our brain couldn't do that. In fact, there's a whole system called the glymphatic system that uses cerebral spinal fluid to wash your brain and head strong. I write about how to upgrade the performance of that, but it turns out that the guys at the NIH actually watch people's brains drain fluid into those vessels. We just never noticed the vessels because they were running right alongside a major artery. So throughout all of medical history, we just, oops, didn't notice. So that's kind of cool because it completely changes how we think about the brain and the immune system and how they interrelate. And it brings huge dogmas into question. Things like, oh, there's a blood brain barrier that does X. Like, oh, sorry, there's these big drain pipes in the middle of the barrier that we just didn't really know about. And what they're looking at now is whether people have Ms. Or other neuroinflammatory disorders may have differences in that part of the system. My theory is that, no, they don't, because they're getting external toxins that damage their mitochondria, that damage nerve myelination. That's why you should keep your mitochondria strong and don't eat toxic mold for breakfast. It's a bad idea. Speaking of things that you might want to think about for breakfast, by the way, did you guys see that segue? That was the smoothest segue in all of Bulletproof Radio. So thank you for your round of applause. I'm just kidding. But that was a segue that I didn't plan. Before we get into today's show, I wanted to tell you about the fact that we have three roasts of Bulletproof Coffee, and there's a three roast bulletproof coffee variety pack. We've got the Mentalist, which is my current favorite. I'm actually doing it in espresso, and it just drives me crazy. I love it. The original medium roast, which is my favorite for pour over, and French Kick, which is a dark roast that we dialed in with one of the guys who trains the judges in the cup of Excellence, which is like the world championship of coffee tasting. And I have always said, dark coffee. Come on, Seriously, that ruins coffee. He's like, no, we can do it. So something like 60 plus roasts later, we came up with a dark roast that I actually like that doesn't taste, like, burnt, well, charcoal or something. It's good stuff. You go to bulletproof.com and get the three packs, save a little bit of money, and, well, you get to try them all. And there's some other exciting news. The Bulletproof Diet is now published in Hungarian. And because I am not one of those people who speaks Hungarian, although that would be an awesome skill to have, I cannot say the title proper Hungarian yet. So I'm not going to try. But I will tell you, yay. It's in Hungarian. In my wildest dreams, I never would have expected that the Bulletproof Diet would have sold, I think, at this point, a little bit more than half a million copies. And it's available now in 11 or 12 languages. And when I went to Japan recently where it was published, I couldn't believe it. I went to a book sign, and people were lifting up their shirts to show me their six packs. And if you've been to Japan, people don't lift up their shirts in Japan. And I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen. So anyway, Hungarian is added to the list. So if you're in Hungary listening right now, thank you. And you should pick up a copy in your native language, because that's awesome. All right, next up, let's talk about today's. Guest. This guy is one of the hundred people who attended the first annual Bulletproof Conference about five years ago. So this was a pretty exclusive group of people who were really early on the biohacking scene. And he was a speaker at the Bulletproof conference in 2014. His name's Mike Hoban. He's a strength and conditioning coach who works with athletes at the professional level, collegiate level, and knows all sorts of weird stuff. And he's going to teach us some things today and talk about some new tech he's working with. Mike, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

Now, I forgot to mention, you're coaching. Whatever you call it. It's called Elite Speed. This is the name of your thing.

My company, yeah.

And I've been out to see Mike at his facility in New Jersey. It's really nice, and he's got a strange assortment of biohacking technologies, but there's a thing that some of the top people on earth can do in sports training where they look at you and they're like, have you ever seen Neo in the Matrix? I know it's getting an older movie. It's still my favorite movie, but he looks at reality and it's all ones and zeros. Dropping through with Mike, he looks at you and you're all planes and angles and like, oh, look. Yeah, something's wrong. So last night we were having dinner, and he goes, there's something in your shoulder. I'm like, yeah, it's been popping a little bit lately. He goes, I got it. And pushes on my palm, and he pushes on weird things that have nothing to do with my shoulder in the way I see the world, because I'm not Neo of the human body. And all of a sudden, my shoulder stops popping, and it's fine today. I could run current over it. I could laser it. There's a lot of stuff I know how to do, but it's one of these crazy things where there's all these networks of movement that are just not visible to us. And Mike is a pro at this stuff, which is why I had him on the show. So, Mike, welcome.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

And thanks for coming up to Vancouver island to film this live. So this gave me a chance to play with some of his new toys and just to get a chance to hang out. And plus, anytime we get to interview in person, it's probably more fun to watch on YouTube. Go to bulletproof.com YouTube. You can find the YouTube channel where you'll find the show if you're not driving, in which case, well, maybe you should just listen. And if you're at work and your boss is going to see you watching a video, just keep listening. That's fine.

Just keep it under the desk if you're going to watch it.

Yeah, that works. Just put your cell phone down low. Exactly. You'll be good to go and. Well, wait, if your cell phone's down low, what are you irradiating?

It's not anything good, that's for sure.

That's right. Keep your cell phone away from your junk. Rule number one, big time.

Rule number one.

So, Mike, what got you into all this kind of weird stuff?

Being a strength coach. One of the things you come across is always injuries. And getting people from point A to point B, from injured to healthy is always kind of a tricky process. You have standard rehab, you have obviously doctors, chiropractors, and. And the issue is they all look at their own thing and no one really talks to each other. And that's kind of where the issue comes from because normally when we get hurt, it's a multi level thing. You know, it's the muscle didn't fire properly, so the joint took the load and now the ligament got stressed or yada, yada, yada, and something caused a chain reaction. And because no one really looked at the muscular system, I decided that was something I had to go further into in that way.

You actually did some training with Charles Polikan years ago, and you've certainly, when we first met, you were talking about some of that cool stuff. And Charles has been a real popular guest on the show as well. And he's a friend and apparently a big fan of unfair advantage. He sent a note the other day. He's like, dave, what's in there? Meth and pcp. I feel so good on this. I'm like, don't mince your words, my friend. So, Charles, if you're listening, thanks for that and just thanks for your training because I think his training was really helpful for you.

Oh, definitely, definitely. He was the groundwork for all the stuff I do today.

Okay, beautiful. Now you got into this and how did you get to be working with pro athletes?

Basically just built local kids up until they got to that point. You know, if you get a kid when they're young enough and they're driven enough and they have the talent to begin with, you can build all those things necessary to get them into that realm to where they can become a pro athlete. I mean, it's just a matter of developing them properly. From step one to the last step.

What's the earliest that you start working with kids?

I've started with as young as 10.

Wow.

And that's mostly just coordination, getting their body to synchronize. We have a lot of kids now who fall into the, excuse the expression, a motormoron category because so many of us spend all our time here. We're on computers, we're sitting. And that's not what our bodies are made for. Our bodies are made to move, which I'm sure everyone's heard ad infinitum. But it's a very true thing. That's why everyone keeps saying it. You have to move.

Especially at that age where you're getting the movement reflexes still wired in.

Yeah. And especially with all the things we do with kids nowadays. I mean, kids don't crawl anymore, you know, and that's where like a lot of our development comes from. It's where we develop our cross crawl pattern. That's where we develop our cervical curve. From looking up a kid, from looking up at people, you know, and we take that away. We have kids in these rompers and these rollers. So they're walking before they should. You know, we're skipping development.

Yeah. I actually have a problem with my infant motor reflexes. What happened to me is that I learned to read at 18 months, which is kind of cool because it develops your brain a lot.

It's kind of impressive. Yeah.

But when I really got into looking at what's going on in my nervous system, if I close my eyes and just march in place, I would spin in a circle with no knowledge I was doing that.

Oh, wow.

And the developmental ophthalmologist I was working with was like, oh, yeah, you never learned to crawl, did you? And I'm like, yeah, actually, how did you know? He's like, well, lots of adults have these patterns. And your feet don't do this, they don't do that. And it's literally this whole one hand crosses the body. So you're seeing this in 10 year olds now?

Oh, yeah, yeah. We get these kids who they'll try to run same arm, same legs. So as they lift up their left knee, they'll pump their left arm, which is not the way our nervous system works.

So it's just, it's a wiring thing. So you're fixing wiring at younger ages, but you're working with like the real serious athletic kids, usually a little bit later than that. So you get teenagers. I know you've done a lot of work with soccer Teams, right?

Some soccer teams. Yeah, and a lot of soccer teams. The biggest thing is that we have to do is develop the rear of the body. Okay. Because those kids tend to develop compensation patterns because they start soccer at such a young age. They'll rely on the quadriceps, which are large muscles, but the glutes and the hamstrings are larger. Plus there's two muscles groups versus one. So you work better, you're more efficient that way you're going to be faster, you're going to cut better, and you're going to decelerate better, which is what the game of soccer is. It's start and stop, start and stop.

Okay? So you do all this kind of work, and then over time, you develop some really specific techniques. And what I wanted to chat with you about today was that you've got actually, hold on. What's your favorite sport to work with? Like, what kind of pro athlete is.

The best athlete to work with? I work with a lot of baseball players right now. I mean, I have a kid who's trying out for the NFL. He's a lot of fun to work with. I've trained him since he was 14. He's 22 now.

Okay.

So those are really good sports to work with. Probably those two.

Got it. So football and baseball. And what you found out with is, though everyone, even people who are not athletes, and there's actually a lot of pro athletes, several, like pro football teams, are religious, bulletproof. I know because they emailed me. I'm like, are you serious?

Nice.

And stuff like that. But I know that you've been working. You've been working on things that pro athletes and crossfitters and all may benefit from, but that pretty much everyone has a problem with because we sit and because of things like that.

Definitely.

And you call it like, the big three muscle groups that are inactivated. What are the big three?

So the three major muscle groups we look at in every activation are the psoas, the glutes, and the hamstrings. So those are our main propulsory muscle groups, and those are the ones that basically make up a lot of our posture.

Talk about the psoas, because you know what a so as is. But I'm guessing unless you're into yoga or like some sort of study of anatomy, most people don't know what a so as is, and they can't spell it either.

Yes. So if, first of all, it's spelled very funny. It has a P in the beginning. The beginning, which kind of throws most people off. But the psoas is the deepest muscle in the body, so it connects your femur or thigh bone all the way to your spine, and it's what causes hip flexion. So if you ever think that your core is your abs, like I tell people, try to take a step just using your abs, because you can't. So that muscle is basically our main propulsory muscle, like I said. And it tends to get very short on us because we spend the bulk of our day seated. You know, everyone works at a computer, works at a desk. We have our kids sitting at a desk in school all day, and that muscle just shortens. So we need to open it up. We need to get it working right. So for people to explore their full potential.

All right, so that's psoas and then glutes. So that's the butt muscle, obviously, and that's because it opposes the psoas. Is that why?

Yeah. So essentially, when the glute gets locked up, you're going to kind of tip backwards because the muscle shortens, and your psoas is going to be put in a vulnerable position. So you have to be able to have both of them firing at the right time. Otherwise you're not going to move anywhere real efficiently, and you're probably going to have some pain because of it.

All right, so we got your butt and the thigh bone to the spine. So as. And what was the other one?

The hamstring.

The hamstring. All right, the hamstring is, I guess it's a muscle and it's, well, a tendon.

Right.

So you're talking about the muscle that's around the hamstring?

Yep. Yeah. The hamstring muscle, which runs all the way up and down, you know, from the ischial tuberosity down to the knee.

Okay.

Which causes both hip flexion, or, I'm sorry, hip extension. Sorry about that. And knee flexion.

Okay. So these are the things that you see most people, because we sit, we drive, even if we move around some, these are the areas that get weak. And what. What do you mean by inactivated?

So basically what happens is the muscle just gets into a position where it creates more stability. So it stops firing or locks up, and it's not active. It can't reach its full range of motion. It can't reach its proper power potential because it's protecting something. It's trying to keep something safe, especially in the center of our body.

Okay. So there's an automatic reflex that we have. It's like this part of the body is at risk. So lock up.

Exactly.

And that definitely works like this distributed network of sensors in the body trying to keep your body alive. We call them mitochondria, which feed into the nerves.

Do you know anything about those?

Yeah, I've heard about them. They do work to protect those things. And this isn't a conscious behavior, right?

No, completely unconscious.

If I was locked up or inactivated in one of those areas, would I even know it?

Yeah, but you probably wouldn't realize directly what the cause was. So, I mean, a lot of people who have a shortened psoas are going to end up having tight hamstrings because it's reflexive. So one is short on one side, so the other side shortens to accommodate for it.

So you can bend over and touch your toes. Therefore your psoas work.

Yeah, that was actually one of the things I did at the conference when we were calling people up on stage. First we'll test the hip, and if the hip isn't firing properly, we'll test the hamstring length. And nine times out of 10, people who their hips aren't firing, their hamstring flexibility is trash.

This is an area that I definitely discovered. I had a problem, you know, about five years ago when I was really getting into this stuff where my hamstrings or no hamstring, my psoas was inactivated. Even though I'd be doing a lot of yoga. I can put my ankles around my head. I can bend over and touch my.

I can put my hands flat on the floor normally.

And for a 6, 4 guy, kind of unusual, but it still wasn't activated, which is. Which is odd. So you did something maybe at the first conference, I don't know, something in the last few years where you're like, oh, here, sorry about this. Took your thumb. And by the way, if you're watching, you would see what Mike looks like. But he's a powerlifter. Are you like a pro powerlifter? Almost.

I competed for a while. I was never a pro.

But basically he has shoulders bigger than, like the sheep in my backyard. Like, the man is a wall of muscle. And at least some muscle.

Some muscle.

Just kidding.

It's all grass fed.

It's all grass fed. I put him on the Vasper machine, the cold cardio thing that we use at bulletproof labs. And like, the velcro bands almost didn't go around his arms. Like there was a half inch of velcro left. So I've never seen that before, but good God. Anyway, so this not small man Takes his thumb and you just dig it in, like right somewhere around, like to the left of the groin out here. And it's like I screamed like a child, but then like, oh, wow, look, I can move again. But it was probably you just kind of vibrated your thumb. It was like maybe, maybe a five second thing where it was pretty intense.

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, when you reactivate a tissue, it'll.

What were you doing?

So essentially what we did was went in around the lymphatic point, which we were talking about the lymphatic system before. And when lymphatics get clogged up, nine times out of 10, you're going to lose function in that muscle.

So there's no sewage. So the sewage gets backed up and then the muscle that affects muscle. But that's not the primary cause of an activity activation. It's neurological.

No, that's not the. It's neurological. It's lymphatic. Like I said, it's multi level.

Okay?

So it can be anything.

So you did that and there's a noticeable change. Same thing you did last night. My shoulder quit popping after you, like, found the right points. And you are going to teach our listeners how to reactivate their psoas today. And then you've also just created a program for this. And guys, listening, Mike's a good friend and he's going to talk about. He's got a new program where he teaches people to do this. We have no business relationship other than that he knows what he's talking about and he's taught me some cool stuff over the years. And actually you wrote the exercise manual for the Bulletproof Vibe too, right?

I believe I did, yeah.

That was a while back. So anyway, we'll talk about his program, but this is not to sell it to you, but just if you like this kind of stuff, you can learn about it. If not, then don't learn about it.

Exactly.

So anyhow, you're going to teach people how to activate their SOAs.

I'll give you the real easy one. I'm going to talk everyone through it. There's a couple ways to do everything, but I figured just for the. Since we're describing it, it's just going to be easier to go with this one. So the easiest way I've ever found to activate your psoas is you find your belly button or umbilicus, right? And then basically you just kind of dig in around that area, like underneath above or just straight through Underneath and around. We're going to make a circle around the belly button.

So clockwise, counterclockwise, doesn't matter.

Doesn't really matter. And you're going to find tender spots.

If you're an innie or an outie, it doesn't matter.

No, it does not matter. Very important question.

No, never asked that before.

No, no, no, That's a new one.

You heard it here first.

Exactly. So.

So you're doing a circle. Like, how deep do you push?

Well, you want to push probably about four or five pounds of pressure.

Okay.

So you know enough to make a response. And you're going to look for certain things. Like you'll feel. We're both sitting here on camera rubbing our bellies right now. It's pretty awesome. You'll feel certain areas where there's like a hot spot that tends to be, like, inflamed areas. All right, so, you know, if I come in on Dave.

Yeah. You'll find some spot. Yeah, that's a tender spot on that side.

And then if I move up a little bit, it's less tender. Yeah. So, yeah, we work our way around. There's another one. And then we go lower.

Yeah, it's center on that side, too. All right, so you find the tender spots. And what do you do? Just.

Just stay in there a little bit longer and just kind of. It's almost like the same idea as foam rolling. Very different from foam rolling.

Yeah. There's no foam roller, for one thing.

Yeah, exactly. That's one thing. And foam rolling. Foam rolling won't reactivate a tissue. It'll just kind of break up adhesion make.

Which is valuable. Very valuable. But just a little bit of this is not adhesion. So if I find the tender spot, what do I do?

Just stay in there and just kind.

Of go and circle, like tiny little size of a quarter kind of thing?

Yep.

All right, so you do that for how long?

It's about five, 10 seconds. And then move to the next spot. You're not looking to resolve everything right away. We're just looking at cause of response.

All right. And this is going to turn on your psoas.

Oh, yeah.

That's not obvious because your psoas doesn't go through your belly button.

Exactly.

All right, and how do you know this works?

Tried it multiple times.

Oh, my God. Evidence.

Evidence based stuff. Who knew?

Got it. And are there, like, acupuncture systems that would predict this or any other school that this borrows from?

Sometimes it will borrow from Chapman. Chapman Reflexes.

Okay.

That's one thing. Acupuncture does have its own System of activations, but they tend to be tied to organs, so you can get into some funky stuff that way.

Okay, so basically you're saying people who are listening right now don't do this if you're driving. Or maybe just keep one hand on the wheel. Or if you're in a Tesla, it'll just drive for you. Don't worry about it. Even better. But so you find these tender spots and it's weird, if you do a circle, you will find some spots are way more tender than others and you wouldn't feel it unless you pushed. And then you stand for 10 seconds. And how am I going to do my saws? Like if I do a forward fold and then I do this, am I going to do a deeper forward fold?

Well, we would normally do is we would test you beforehand just to obviously give you that evidence as well and make sure you know your muscles are firing. But a lot of people, what you'll realize an easy test to do on your own is stand up and lift your knee as high as you can.

Okay.

And first of all, your balance is probably going to be a little bit wobbly. Most people, especially if the psoas is locked up because it's kind of pulling on your pelvis and pulling you in the wrong direction. Then when you activate it, your knee is going to go higher and you're also going to have better balance because now it's not pulling on your pelvis and properly.

I've definitely found if you pay attention to your balance, it tells you all sorts of stuff. They have those wobble boards or even like the digital ones. I bought a, a Sony PlayStation 10 years ago or something. Or not. Whatever. The Wii, not so the Nintendo Wii, because it had a board. But I found out when you got it, unless you did all sorts of hacking, you couldn't actually see it. I'm like, I just wanted to stand on there and see how much I wobbled. Instead, I had to play video games that were fun. So there are. If you go to high end neurology clinics, they'll actually like, look at how you walk and whether your weight is balanced, but just which part of the.

Foot you make contact with.

And like when, when you stand, you wouldn't know this, but like you, you actually go in like a cone shaped circle. Right. And do you get into that stuff?

Not, not in the first level we're going to be teaching, we look more at breathing, which is going to be a big contributor to that and postural analysis as well, which is a huge Predictor for that might even be more important in my mind than balance, because that kind of controls a lot of the balance we have.

Okay, so just looking at the posture, and then. So if you wanted to test this at home, you would stand still, raise your knee as high as you could, and check in. Okay. Am I balanced? Am I tipping over? Do I need a wall? And do it with both legs.

Yep, both legs. Just see if one's better than the other and then go through your activation and see what changes.

Okay. And the activation is around the belly button, small circle. Find the tender spots and kind of rub them for 10 seconds exactly. All right. And so that's one of. And you teach this for the other muscles?

Oh, yeah, we have. We're going to teach at least two or three activations for each muscle group.

Okay, that's pretty cool. So there you go. That's a useful thing you can try. Well, if you're driving, as you can't really test yourself. And would you try a forward fold as well or just.

Definitely. You could totally do that. I would probably try one seated, because a forward fold. I mean, we can hip hinge. Like a seated forward fold, and that changes things. So, I mean, a toe touch and a hip hinge.

Who has a hard time with a forward fold sitting? Is that.

Yeah, a lot of people. With your knees straight. Yeah.

Oh, with your knees straight. Okay. Yeah, got it. I was thinking, like, I could probably touch the floor always.

Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Right now.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, like sitting on the floor with your legs extended.

Oh. Oh, I got it. Okay. So that's harder. Okay, now I get it. So actually, that's a great test because that's really challenging for most people. Except soccer goalies.

Yeah. Yeah.

Those bastards. I used to play goalie, but that wasn't my move. My move was running into the other players so they wouldn't score. I don't know why that worked for me.

I did the same thing in football. So I feel.

Yeah.

Use my head as a blunt object.

It seems to work until the TBI kicks in.

Exactly.

All right. And then the other ones people ought to pay attention to are the butt and the hamstrings. And if you. Okay, another question for activating a muscle like this. How often. I mean, do I need to, like, walk around poking my gut all day long?

I recommend most people if you have an issue with it. So a lot of people. I mean, how many people do we know with back pain?

That's a lot of them, right?

Yeah. So if you have Back pain or if you have any issues like that, that's another way to test, too, by the way. If your back is hurting and you activate your psoas, and all of a sudden it loosens up. Okay, guess what you have. You don't have back pain. You have a tight psoas. So that's another tip, another way you can test. But I tell people, I mean, it never hurts, and it actually helps with some detoxification because we get the lymph moving again. So two to three times a day.

All right.

I mean, it takes little to no effort. You know, it takes a little bit of a pain tolerance, but the more you do it, the easier it gets.

All right. Just kind of massage out those little pain points around the. And if you go in and you see, like, a lot of acupuncturists, like, they'll probe those same areas, find out where it's tender, and then based on that, they'll put a needle in somewhere like your knee. Like, why are you putting a needle in? But as soon as the needle goes in, you're like, oh, it doesn't hurt anymore.

Exactly. The meridians.

I'm fascinated by those systems, but I'm not a trained acupuncturist, and the people I know who are good are just constantly studying. It's an amazing network of stuff there.

It really is.

Now, the other thing that you're working on that's kind of cool is you're always looking at technology for pro athletes that could give them an advantage. And you're one of the few guys who has one of those, like, dual waveform Russian stimulation kind of things. The old. The old thera stim, it used to be called. So it was kind of cool. When I went to your place in New Jersey, I was really wiped out. I'd been on this. That might have been for the bulletproof diet book tour or something.

Yeah.

But I was. I'd been, like, on with media all day, and I'm like, I'm kind of trash here. So you used some of the electrical stem that I had at home that I hadn't brought with me. I was like, oh, this is, like, the one place the entire state where I could find it. And that stuff really can be regenerative. But aside from electrical stimulation, what are some of the other kind of toys that you play with?

The biggest thing I'm using right now is something called immuno neurofrequency.

Okay.

Which is basically, it's really cool. It's these discs that when you apply them to your body, the radiant heat in your body activates them and they emit a frequency, which causes a response in your body.

Do. When you say they emit a frequency, I'm always a little bit like, okay, what exactly is the frequency?

The frequencies are. They're harmonious with the ones in your body.

Okay.

So, like, there's ones to get inflammation out of your system.

Is it like heat or light or radio frequency?

No, I believe it's just. I would say it's probably more of like a radio frequency. Not a radio, but like a sound wave. Okay, that's what I'll go with.

So there is. So I'm always. There's a lot of people will say, oh, frequencies.

Yeah, of course.

And. And it's like, okay, well, frequencies can be measured. And like, okay, what's the frequency of your ceiling fan? That's very different than what's the frequency of your radio station. And like, a light has the frequency of the light itself, and then there's a blink rate. So I'm always like, okay, what does frequency really mean? Because it just means how often per second. But how often what? Per second. Exactly. And what you're talking about there. Sounds have frequencies. And you can measure light or sound in hertz because it's just how often per second. But something called a piezoelectric effect absolutely happens. And we know that light and heat can trigger piezoelectricity. Right. Where you can get a small electrical signal from sound. And so, like, there are materials that respond that way. So these are disks that use infrared. And then we don't. I suppose it could also be light. I don't know the tech.

I believe it's infrared.

Okay, well, it's infrared that would power them, probably. And that actually, there's good science behind that. Like infrared light from your mitochondria changes water into exclusions on water. So there is a. Basically, it's the core of really, anytime you're doing organic biochemistry, this is happening. So there's a conceivable angle there. And I've had probably 50 different people say, try this patch. And I'm always kind of like, if it's a nicotine patch, there's a pretty clear mechanism of action there. But other times, I fundamentally believe there's cells in your body that do stuff you have no knowledge of. And by the way, this stuff in your gut, I have no knowledge of that. But it turns things on and off.

Like, of course.

All right, so I'm open minded to the idea that you can send a signal into the body that you didn't consciously know about, and even that maybe it's listening to things that we don't know about. So in this case, you've done a couple of classes on this stuff. You're using it on pro athletes, using it on everyone.

Actually, it's all the stuff that we use for our pro athletes. Also works for general population as well. And the cool thing that it does for most general population people is it gets them out of pain, which is a very good thing to do.

One of the things I like about you, probably the reason you came to the first biohacking conference, is you're like, I like to do what works, basically. And this is the very pragmatic biohacker perspective, is that, well, we think we know the mechanism of action, but it's more important that we got the result than that we understood.

Yeah.

And so how did you find these patches? Like, these are not your invention?

No, not at all. Not at all. I'm not affiliated with the company in any way. Basically, back in January, I ruptured my bicep tendon, which is no fun. Had surgery. My recovery from surgery was becoming very slow, which is very frustrating because one of the things I do is I get people back from surgery. I get people back to their top form or even better, quicker than they would normally get there. So everything was moving really slow. I was getting very frustrated. As you can, you know me pretty well. Yeah. A frustrated mic is not a good thing.

No. You tend to pick up cars and throw them at people.

Yeah, yeah. And I couldn't do that because I had a torn bicep. So it was really bad.

Just Priuses, they're kind of like.

Yeah, that's what I stuck to, Priuses and motorcycles. So I found a gentleman who used this technique. Oddly enough, he and I worked in the same town, and I went, got worked on, and I mean, I saw a huge increase just in the strength that day.

Okay.

So, I mean, my bicep, you know, it was a bicep curl. I mean, I was using eight pound dumbbells, you know, which is a bitter pill to swallow. And I know he's looking at my arm basically telling me how small I am. And that day I ended up using 15s.

Okay.

So that was a big jump for one day.

How do you know it wasn't placebo?

Because it kept happening.

Okay, there you go.

And every time I got treated, it went up a little bit more.

Okay. So, yeah, now you've. You've Become well trained in how to use these discs. And you actually did some, some work, um, my wife, Dr. Lana and me last night that was noticeable. Like I, I have a full disclosure, a post. Burning Man. I've got like this dust in the eye problem. And so I was getting like fluid buildup under my eye that looks particularly obnoxious. And you put some patches on this morning it was gone. Which is kind of cool.

Yeah.

But you've also like you test them on a bunch of your athletes. Tell me about the running. This is one of the reason I want to talk about it, because you had a bunch of examples. Tell me about the run. The guy with the running speed. What'd you do there?

One of my soccer players. So basically what I did was I developed a protocol for athletes to run faster. So I just kind of again broke them down, looked at him, figured what was going on, figured where his weaknesses were and we applied some discs to basically facilitate the process. So I mean I put some stuff on his feet to make him a little more springy, put some discs to increase strength of, you know, the glutes and the hamstrings, the muscles. I was talking about 4 and his. So we ran that day, we were doing a sprint workout and all his times dropped a couple hundredths of a second, which doesn't sound like much, but it's on a 10 yard sprint.

Okay. Very short sprint.

Yeah, very short. So that's a very big margin. Then later that night he texted me out of the blue and just said, you know his words. Excuse me. Holy shit, these discs are magic. And he had told me he ran a 545 mile that night. And this is after a full on sprint workout, which is very difficult to do obviously. And it was like, wow, that's great. What was your best time before that? And he said 6:15.

So it really shortened things.

Yeah.

Now did you tell him the discs were going to make it faster? Was there a simple.

I told him that the disc we were going to try, we were going to experiment on him. He was, he was a guinea pig. He willingly. Willingly. He was a guinea pig. And I said it should help your short sprint speed, your short bursts. And it ended up really affecting his mile. I'm guessing it just really made his stride very efficient, which helped him over the long haul.

Got it. Sometime I want you to like have the like pieces of tape or something. It's gonna improve your speed and see what it does.

You can do that? We can totally do that.

Yeah, just, just you could tell Them afterwards.

I'll get some dummy discs.

I think you should. Yeah, I could totally do that. Yeah. Because, I mean, there is that. The tape you can put on just to increase proprioceptive awareness, things like that.

Yes. Or something.

Yeah. And so part of me is always like, all right, what's really going on here? But I can tell you putting little. Little discs around my eye probably wouldn't make it drain at night, because I don't. Maybe placebo can do that. But I think that just knowing you and knowing how you work with athletes and just you're. You're kind of relentless and a little bit ruthless about figuring out stuff that works and then not caring if people like it or not. Which is why you make people cry when you poke them, kind of.

And my fingers don't bend either.

Right.

I was kind of made for this stuff.

Right. And so I'm intrigued. There are immuno neurofrequency things. I haven't studied all the mechanism of action. They're out of Sweden, guys like a dual PhD who does this. I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet. It sounds like he's kind of a little bit reclusive.

Yeah. From what I understand. Yeah. And he's very busy right now. He's dealing with a lot of cases. Sweden. And you're.

And he just runs some training course. So you've been through a bunch of his trainings and you're using discs with pro athletes.

I've actually never been through one of his trainings. I've been through people who work in it.

Okay, so he has a group of trainers.

Yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah. I haven't actually met him yet.

Okay. What other tech are you working with that you're excited about?

So still using the dual wave stim unit electrical stimulus. And the biggest thing we do with that is it's kind of new hand or old hand, however you want to look at it. We basically just fire things up through the gamma loop.

So what does that mean?

So basically, all the extensors of the body are connected. All the flexors of the body are connected. So if we want to fire up, let's say, a hamstring, which can act as a hip flexor, a hip extensor or a knee flexor, we can hook it up to your triceps, and by stimulating your triceps, your hamstrings and your glutes are going to fire harder because.

All of the flexors are wired together to recognize all through the nervous system.

Yep. So if you Hit one, you hit all of them.

So if someone's injured, say, in a. In their hamstring, you might run electricity over the tricep so that it'll get. Oh, I guess I should strengthen all of these, and then they'll heal faster.

You can do it that way. Or we can even just apply it directly to the injured area as well.

That's what I usually do.

Yeah, but that's no fun. I mean.

Yeah, well, you like to make people cry.

Yeah. And that'll. Like, the first way we said with the. The tricep, that'll help to facilitate training in the latter end, after we've knocked down the initial inflammation, kind of help retrain the muscle without direct directly stimulating it, because you can overstimulate the area very easily.

Okay, what about, like, foam rolling and stuff like that? Is that a part of what you do with athletes? Sometimes.

I mean, yeah, foam rolling is good. It's healthy. I think it's a little bit overdone. I see a lot of coaches now recommending, you know, 45 to 50 minutes of foam rolling.

Who has time for that?

I. I don't. And I work in a gym. I mean, you know, I don't think the average person does what I do.

For what. What. For whatever it's worth, I put the foam roller on the bulletproof vibe.

That's awesome.

And then I roll. And you don't need 45 minutes of that because it's 30 times a second.

Yeah, it's getting in there deeper than any other foam roller would. I could definitely see that.

Yeah, the bulletproof vibe is the.

Just.

I realized I'm saying this, but some people listening don't know. It's a whole body vibration platform that bulletproof makes that vibrates 30 times a second, which is the kind of frequency that NASA uses for astronaut recovery. So I stand on one of those every morning in front of a tanning light in winter, not to get a nice tan, but just to get my vitamin D and to get the ultraviolet light as a signal into the body. So I might as well get the benefits of, like, walking and moving in lymphatic drainage and all that, and get.

A tan out of it.

Yeah, but I'll roll, like, if I have. I know I have an adhesion. I'll roll with the vibration. And that's. It's pretty intense.

Oh, yeah. That's going to be like a deep tissue massage.

And there's also some of the rollers have those, like, knobs on them.

Oh, God.

I put one of Those on the vibe. And it's like, if I can handle it, I know it's going to break up the adhesion, but I might make some odd sounds when I do that.

At least you're in the lab. You're out of the house.

Exactly. Lana's waking up at midnight. What are the screams coming from the labs? What about anything else in there? You're not an acupuncturist. Is there anything like that that you recommend for people? Any other tech that you're using?

We've actually found using some of the discs on acupuncture, puncture points, cause and effect.

Part of me is like, all right, I absolutely know that you can get a signal into the body. And I'm not clear on some of the nuances of how this actually does. I can theoretically guess. But also, is it possible that there's some sort of marketing mumbo jumbo? If you name something, this is the cannabis frequency. You're going to immediately sell a bunch of these. But this guy doesn't even really. Does he sell?

You have to be certified to. Through the company. Okay, yeah, you have to work for Immuno Neuroflex.

There's. This is not multi level marketing. Nope.

I.

Thank God. All right, you're out of here. I don't know that crap on the show for a variety of reasons.

But yeah, no, no, there's. There's none of that. There's no, you can't call me up and I'll mail them to you. That doesn't happen.

Okay, good deal. So basically you find someone who's suprema. Sports trainers, massage therapists. Like who, who has these things?

So a lot of massage therapists were in the course. Chiropractors were taking the course. Who else was in there? Primal reflex people.

Okay, so movement coaches. A lot of people.

Movement coaches. Anyone who deals with soft tissue injuries.

Those are immune amino neuro frequency. All right? And again, guys, I mentioned products all the time, like cool tech. I, I've never even met this company. I learned about these a few days ago. I'm like, oh, let's talk about those. So I like, I, I cannot vouch for them, but I can tell you that if Mike says that he's seeing them work with pro athletes and with himself. Mike doesn't, doesn't mess around. So one of my techniques as a biohacker is I go with like the trusted experts who test this stuff out. And I test a lot of stuff myself. So I'll be playing around with some of these. I'M assuming you're willing to leave me a few.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll throw a few on you before I leave you in the right spot.

And I played with them last night, but. So this is not a full on. Like, oh, these are great.

Yeah. But not an endorsement by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah, but you would, you would say that they work?

I. Yeah, I mean, I think they're a game changer. Changer, personally.

All right, let's see. Electrical stem.

You.

I think you have whole body vibration with athletes. Okay. What other stuff like are they training with weights? Mostly sprints. Like, just tell me more about what, what's making, what's making the most progress and least amount of time on this process.

So with those guys, I mean, obviously I have the luxury to break down everything and they can spend more time in the gym if necessary. I have some guys who come in twice a day just because it's, you know, if they need to lose weight. Let's say a guy comes off the season, he's, you know, too big. So we can do something. We have the luxury of doing energy systems in the morning, weight training at night. So it's really driven to what the athlete needs or what the body needs. So I do a lot of weight training with people. That's the way I was taught.

Right.

And it's, you know, it's what I like doing. It's what I've seen the most bang for the buck for. I mean, you know, there's a reason why we still have barbells and dumbbells. They work.

You people still use gravity. So old fashioned.

I'm like, hey, it's the most powerful force in physics.

How do you get the strongest or I'd say most useful signal into the body in the least amount of time is kind of. That's where, that's what I want. That's like, that's what we're doing at bulletproof labs as well. Like, is there a way around those limitations? But I think for pro athletes there's something to be said for working at.

The speed of gravity and there's something to be said just for getting God awful strong and getting strong in the right position.

And this is of course a guy who could obviously bench press me. So I'm not exactly a small guy.

So maybe swat him.

There you go. But I did kick your ass in ping pong.

Yes, you did. Yeah. There was not, not even close. I think I lost by like 18 points in a game to 12.

I don't know how that happened, he could squash me like a grape in your bicep. But at least you know when it comes to ping pong. All right, let's see. And you are teaching these muscle activation things. You just set up some new courses. And if I remember right, it's something about you. Peanut butter. Something upb. I don't remember the full thing.

Letter U Perform Better Institute. So if you're interested in finding any information, we're going to start setting up seminars.