Cellular Detox Expert: Why Most Healing Doesn’t Work | Dr. Daniel Pompa

Healthy could be the new sick. Blood levels could be made normal and yet not feel well. So many people are having that exact experience because it's not so simple.

How does someone know the recipe that made them sick? Because if you know that, maybe you can undo it.

So my saying is, if we fix the cell, we get. Well, a lot of people today are trying to solve their gut problem when they're in a mold problem or they have an upstream heavy metal issue. When your cells make energy in the mitochondria, which is in our cells, they make toxins. If you understood the microbiome, that means all the bacteria, our hands that protect us. If it wasn't there, we'd be dead. Detox is about fixing what's broken there.

And it's in the cell. Not the liver, not the kidney. How do you go about fixing the cell?

I have my five Rs, which is a road map to do this.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. So, Dr. Dan Pompa, you said that a lot of disease, a lot of aging, is damage at the cellular level. And I think we have some agreement on that. Is healthy. The new sick is healthy.

The new sick. Well, when you look at the statistics in this country, you might say that actually. I've never heard it put that way, but it's actually a brilliant statement because healthy could be the new sick, especially because it becomes so normal to them, a lower level of living. Yeah, it's kind of like someone dimming the lights in the outside the room after a while. You don't even know it's dim until they actually turn it up and like, I'm healthy.

Yeah, no, you're not.

No, you're not. No, it's true. I was in a conversation just recently. I was in a friend of mine's waiting room and it was. Three women were having a conversation and it was about. It was about their health issues. But they kept saying, but that's normal, right? It's like, well, you know, my thyroid, you know, I have thyroid, you know, issues. Done it on my hair, staying. But that's all normal. And I was like thinking, I actually didn't go into the conversation because I knew it would just be too much.

And if you look at what normal actually means, it means average. And just go to the airport and look around and that's normal. So if what you are is normal, you're probably not in very good shape because most people are sick today. So you should be so far from normal just to be healthy.

Even blood work. You look at blood work and you know, these normals that we call them are really not normal, are they? Not based on abnormal humans in a abnormal society.

What is the normal level of Testosterone for a 35 year old guy?

You know, my answer is going to be a little different than probably what you're looking for because we look at blood levels of hormones and I always say, you know, if it were only that simple. Meaning that how your hormones interact with your cell, get into your cell so you feel well, is really different than people think. Meaning hormone sensitivity, it rules. So therefore you could have someone with a lower blood level and be absolutely healthy, as we're putting quotes around it, and feel amazing and be lean and have all kinds of energy because they're very, their cells are very sensitive to their hormones or people could be forcing the hormones very high and their cells not be very sensitive to hormones because of something called cellular inflammation that's blocking the hormones and cellular damage to the receptor itself. So it's hard to look at blood levels and put healthy on them.

That's profound. You're 100% right. And the first thing is people say, how much testosterone? I'm like, well, how much is free? How much is available?

Ah, see, it's, it's not easy.

Yeah. And we can measure how much is free. And you know, Randy Galpin was on and said, you know, above 20 and I would generally agree, and some people do not feel good at 20 because as you're saying, their cells can't use it. So then you say, well, what's the right level for longevity? And then how are you feeling? And maybe we need to crank it up to 24 so you can feel.

Yeah, you know, look, look at thyroid, right?

Oh God.

We have this explosion of thyroid cases in the last even 10 years. If you look at 20, it's even worse. Right. Well, look, you know, people, I let, let me reference myself. There was a time where I said, I know I have a thyroid. This is when I was sick. This is back in 1999, 2000. So a long time ago. But my hair was thinning. Right. I didn't know what was wrong with myself. I had mysterious illness. Couldn't figure it out. But one thing I did know is I had a thyroid issue. I had all the symptoms.

Right, because you were a doctor back then.

Yeah. And I, I, you know, I knew it was going, but I went and got a blood test. This particular day I ran $5,000 worth of tests trying to figure out what was wrong. Okay. And I, I know the number. It was right around that number because I didn't have insurance to pay for it. So you remember, you tend to remember things like that.

I spent similar amounts in a similar year because, yeah, it was really expensive. Still is.

But not, yeah, no, no doubt it was back then. But I ran a lot of things. But it was a depressing day because he came back in. His exact words were, oh, you're healthier than me. Right. I didn't want to hear that. I mean, if he told me, you know, you have cancer, I'd be like, okay, at least I know what I'm up against now because I just spent, you know, two years looking and finding nothing. But anyways, my thyroid numbers came back normal. Okay. I had every thyroid symptom. Right. So what I didn't know is, again, you know, my thyroid hormone wasn't getting its message or itself in the cell. So therefore, because I had so much cellular inflammation.

Thyroid resistance.

Yeah, absolutely. Just like insulin resistance. Great, great example. So eventually I, I, maybe five years, it would have went off. Maybe 10 years, I would have went. And finally they would have said, oh, you know, know your number, your TSH is off, your T3, you know, is low. And then, great, here, take this. I would have taken the hormone, maybe I would have felt better for a period of time. I would have definitely went back in two, three months. And they would say, oh, look, your levels are better. But what do people say? Yeah, but I don't feel better. Right. Meaning my hair's still thinning, my skin's dry, I'm constipated, so I still have no energy. I can't lose this belly fat or whatever it is. Right. The point is, is that, you know, that's the example that we're talking about, is blood levels can be to normal and yet not feel well in so many people are having that exact experience because it's not so simple as looking at blood levels. And I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water. I, I mean, you know, if someone comes back and they have a testosterone level of 100, I too would say, probably an indication your body's struggling a bit.

But if they walked in just with plates of muscle and complaining of excess libido and their testosterone is 100, you'd probably say, good, good on you, right? Yeah, yeah, it's not gonna happen. But probably not. It's funny, around that same year, probably a couple years before it, I got my results back from a longevity doctor in the Bay Area, and I Don't think he's still practicing, Dr. Miller. And he said, dave, your thyroid's almost undetectable, and your testosterone is lower than your mom.

How do you know my mother?

Well, I sent my parents home because he's a longevity doctor. And I'm like, maybe you can fix me because I'm fat. I'm tired all the time, my eye are falling out, all this stuff, right? And I remember the first time I took thyroid hormone. It was. It was like, oh, my God, my whole body. I think now, when I. When I apply effort, results happen before I could apply effort, and nothing would happen.

See, that's the difference. Your cellular health is better now. You know, look, receptors to every hormone reside on our cells, right? It's. People are listening. So I'm. I literally have my fist with a hand up, my fingers going through it. You know, hormones have to dock to those receptors. No different than your cel needs a tower to communicate. Otherwise, your cell phone's useless. Right? And what you just said when you were going through your health challenges, you know, we both went through stuff, right? Nothing worked because your cells were inflamed, blocking your hormone receptors. Oh. You can't even get the good things in. Oh, and also, toxins are building up in your cell, right? Which is not triggering your bad genes, right? It's like. And this is most of America, by the way, toxic cells, right? It's like hormones can't get in, nutrition can't get in, toxins can't get out. You know, this is the problem, right? Right there. I. 20 years of teaching this to doctors with, you know, great frustration.

Sometimes I think you're making a difference, though.

Yeah, I appreciate that. Likewise, by. I. I'm honored to be here. And by the way, I. I really. Not as many people give you credit as credit is due, meaning you are the father of biohacking. You really are. And I say that because I've been doing this a long time. I've been ripped off, copied, and not given credit. So, number one, I know what it feels like. Learned to give credit where credit's due. You are. I remember years ago, I could tell you where I was when someone either said, watch this. You'll resonate with it. And I watched a video. I texted the person back, said, this guy's smart and he knows what he's talking about. And anyways, but that was. My gosh, I don't even know when that was, but I was in Tahoe. I was staying at this cool hotel in Tahoe. Actually, it was Carson's right outside of Tahoe. But that you deserve credit, man. You know.

Wow. Well, thank you.

Yeah. No, that.

I really. I really did start the biohacking movement. You did Consciously to make longevity medicine, functional medicine and some of this other neuroscience and things just to make it accessible so people would want to do it. If someone had told me about biohacking when I was 19, I would have suffered a lot less than save $2 million.

Like, it would.

It would have been worth it.

Yeah, right. I mean, isn't it true? Yeah, because I. I spent it, man. We remortgaged our home, you know, just get well, right? Yeah. Just. Well, that's why I don't have. I don't have a lot of patience for people when they say, well, how much is it? Or I can't afford it, or can you give me a guarantee? Because I'm like, you know, I wish I had all those things. Right. I didn't. And I spent it. And if I thought you had the answer, you know, I. I'm not. I'm doing it. I'll find it.

I was briefly married in my 20s, and I just rose. I need to set aside 20% of my income just to function, to. To figure out what's wrong with my body, to keep my energy where it is. Right. And that was one of the relationship stresses. It's like, why do you spend so much money on, you know, medical tests? Like, because I'm fat and because I'm tired, because I can't think and because I keep getting sick and all these things because my body hurts all the time.

You know, I had that. I think in that piece that I saw, you told a bit of your story. I. I'm not going to do this, but I'd love to reverse this and be like, tell your story to me again. I would. When did all that start? But just quickly. When did that. When did your problem. When did your illnesses start?

They started as a. As a child. I grew up in a basement with toxic mold. Oh, dude, I hate my man.

Mold's evil.

My family owns a gold mine. I might have a little bit of mercury exposure from that to play in old mines. Absolutely you did. And then a vampire bat bit me when I was 10. I woke up with it feeding on my neck. And now I understand. I almost certainly got bartonella from it. And I also had, you know, chronic strep throat from the mold, which gives you the pandas. And so I also was. Had Asperger's and ADHD and od.

Well, that makes you brilliant. Okay, so take that off the table. But you know, I have to say, what you just said is part of what I've been teaching for 20 years is always look for the perfect storm.

Yeah.

Meaning it's never one thing.

Never.

Your body will. Your body will adapt, adapt, adapt. Right. You know, but it's when that other storm, you know, three storms come together and we have a perfect storm and boom. Then the genes start getting triggered and the bottom starts falling out and the immune system turns on itself. So if you can figure out what someone's perfect storm is, that's how they're going to get well.

I love the way you teach this because you're teaching doctors systems biology and you're undoing the damage from medical school. And there's great value in medical school. I'm not saying that it's not there because if I get hit by a truck, I want to go to. It's just that belief there must be one cause is built into the pharmaceutical industry and they're funding medical schools. And what if in order to test for bread, you could have Pfizer and like. Well, we bake the water, we bake the yeast, we bake the salt, we bake the flour. There is no bread. You have to have a recipe, right? And there's a recipe for getting sick and the recipe for getting. Well, how does someone know the recipe that made them sick? Because if you know that, maybe you can undo it.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, exactly. Right. But it's funny what you said though. Doctors believe that there's one cause today. They believe there's probably one drug to cover up one symptom. Right. I mean, it's gotten even worse than that. Right. You know, one of the things I, I love to teach from, just as an analogy is if you, to, to the point of what you said, right. If you can figure out the. These, the cause, then surely the solution lies there. Right? And we're always looking for cause. But think of a three legged stool. All three things have to be there for the stool to stand up is the analogy. Right. Okay. We know that genes play a role, right? But again, our DNA is not our destiny. Right? Genes can get turned on, most genes and they can also be turned off. So think of that as one leg of the stool. Right? But then think of another leg as the stressors. That perfect storm we discussed that triggers that gene, right? So, okay, so if we deal with the stressors, do you think that there's science to show that we can actually turn off the genes. The answer is yes. So people listening that have autoimmune, right? They have thyroid conditions, diabetes, all these things. Yes, those genes were turned on, but it's definitely not your destiny. But you won't turn them off until you deal with the stressors that turned them on. There is one more leg, and that's the microbiome, as we've learned. Right, Meaning that if you think about autoimmune, there's certain bacteria, if they get in too low a number, we don't make enough T regulatory cells that tell your immune system to back down. It's okay, right? Don't attack it, you know, don't attack yourself. So of course that's playing a role too. So today, even in functional medicine, I find doctors are either just trying to chase the gut without understanding these other legs of the stool. So if all three of these things had to be there for you to get sick, then it makes logical sense that we better deal with all three. Yes, the gut, but. And yes, do things that can actually turn down and down regulate gene expression. But also you better get to the cause of how it got triggered. Oh, in these stress or also why the gut went bad too. So there's one leg that actually causes the other legs, you know, to fall, if you will.

So I really like that. And you've been a leading voice in talking about the role of toxins. And I recognize in my history, both toxins developed by my microbiome that was off as well as environmental toxins have had a profound impact. And even toxins from things that people think are healthy food but probably aren't. It's true. Those have been why my mitochondria were screwed up, why I have the inflammation and all. So I want you to rank the toxins people are commonly exposed to from the worst and most common. Going down the list.

The most common and the worst. I don't know if it lines up, but let's go for this, you know, because if you look at probably the most common, like look at plastic exposure today, right? I mean, huge. I mean, they're finding it in every tissue of the human body. Every brain now on autopsies has it, right? Every testicle, I mean, come on. These are hormone disruptors, right? It's like in, you know, obviously linked to cancer and many other conditions. And we know they're driving autoimmune and other problems. And yet even you and I are being exposed. And I bring water, glass bottles. I don't drink out of plastic. Right.

Did you notice glass Bottle, of course.

Yeah, yeah. It's funny how many podcasts they give me a bottle and I'm preaching against it. And there's the bottle. And I'm like, okay, great. Now I can at least use this one liter. A has 140,000 micrograms of plastic. But anyway. Yeah, so plastic's probably one of the most common. If we're going common first. Then of course, chemicals from our food, like glyphosate. I mean, my gosh. I mean. And I would argue that's making this perfect storm even worse. Right. So I'm going to talk about some deadly toxins that people unknowingly have been exposed to from birth on.

Yeah.

Like you and I. And yet glyphosate allows those to cross deeper into our brain. Number one, this is a 2012 study. Stephanie Seneff, you know, one of the first. It's been duplicated on the show.

I think she's more credit than she gets.

Yeah, right. It's true. You know. Yes. It allows these toxins, like heavy metals, which are deadly. They affected me, part of my story. To cross even deeper into the brain. She believes that it's, you know, creating this massive increase in autism and a lot of other neurodegenerative conditions. It's opening up the gut barrier. So I would put that in one of the most deadly categories because in itself, it's deadly. And it's also making other toxins more deadly by allowing it to cross deeper into us. So, yeah, that would be deadly. You know, I think deadly that people miss in, I would say alternative medicine misses for many reasons because of bad testing. And they don't know what to do with it, really. Mold, biotoxins. Right. Okay, so the urine test. Yeah, I listen in my doctor group, we tested this urine test where you look at biotoxins. Most of it's food borne. We fasted people for a day got a little better, two days got even better. But showing that it's mostly foodborne and you know a lot about foodborne mold now. That's why you developed coffee. That's not right.

Right.

So it very inaccurate. So mold is either missed because of poor testing. Right. People go, oh, yeah, I don't have mold in my house. No one thinks they have mold in their house. Right. It's like, you know, or they do an air test because they brought in the experts. And of course there's no mold in the house. But it is because it's behind the wall and they didn't test for it. Heavy Metals, I would say a lot of people think they might have heavy metals, but then the problem here is the way that they go online and find what they think gets rid of heavy metals. It's the, the drops, it's the chlorella, the cilantro, the. Yeah, none of it is. If it were only that easy, right, I wouldn't have spent most of my career teaching how to get rid of this stuff out of deep tissue, like your brain, you know, that made me sick. So heavy metals, deadly. And doctors don't know quite what to do with it. Biotoxins, deadly, because it's missed and oftentimes dealt with incorrectly. So, yeah, Pesticides, big problem. Plastics, big problem. Forever chemicals is a problem, right? Because these things, yeah, forever, they last forever in our environment. But look what they're doing in our body, right? I mean, it's remarkable that how much, you know, how much damage it's caused, how many dollars are awarded to the damages of. And yet we're still in, you know, basically getting it in all these products from dental floss to eye care, toilet paper. I mean, just go down the list. Eye drops, obviously. Clothing, waterproof, resistant, of course, pans, Teflon. I mean, you know, over 10,000 products we're being exposed to. Europe is putting bans on this stuff one after another. Denmark, the EU is, you know, next to put bans on this stuff. Here in the United States, we're not, we haven't even banned glyphosate yet. And how many billions have it been awarded to cancer, non hodgkins lymphoma, and, you know, other problems. And yet you still walk in Home Depot and you see what Roundup, right?

And you know, those bastards are now trying to go to states and make it illegal for them to have liability for spraying chemicals that poison people. And I'm, I don't understand that because there's a certain type of person, and thankfully I'm not one of them, where if you kill their children, they will kill you. Right. And so I, I just don't, I don't understand how our government isn't taking action on that. I think they might, but.

Well, there's a chance right now there's a new sheriff in town. There's a chance that this could all change. I hope it does.

One of the things about glyphosate that isn't well known is that glyphosate, when you spray it on soil and plants, it causes the toxic mold to make 500 times more mold toxin. And in things like corn. We used to just have mold on the corn. It's called Fusarium, and it's one of the big toxic molds. Well, you could see it, but when you spray glyphosate, it goes into the roots of the corn and it binds to the sugar in the corn, and you can't see it. And if you test the corn for this toxin, you won't see it. But once you digest the corn and your enzymes break the sugar apart, the toxins released. And so glyphosate is making mold toxins work, and it's making metal toxins work?

Yes. Oh, yes, absolutely. Does you know something I heard you say recently, and I said, wow, he's the first person that I've heard say this. And it's true that when people are in a mold exposure, oftentimes they get, like, mucus biofilms, and they have certain sinus problems that they have even certain mucus in the back of the throat. Yeah. And I'm always like, that's mold. And the reason is the fact is that bacteria and mold are enemies of each.

Yeah. Ancient enemies.

Absolutely. So what do bacteria do to protect themselves? They felt biofilms. Right. So that is a sign that I've talked about for many years. So I don't know how you figured it out, but how you. Where you got that. But it's true. But I rarely hear people talk about that.

It. It's fundamentally important for parents. Right. Because your kids have behavioral problems. And pandas is what happens when toxic mold messes with the streptococcus bacteria and it makes it form a biofilm in the sinus of your kids, and then they get chronic strep throat the way I did antibiotics every month for 15 years. But the toxins from strep cause an autoimmune reaction. I think it's to probably to the lining of your nerves to myelin, but that's what causes this Pando's disorder, which makes you have OCD and odd, both of which I used to have. So you think my kid's not trying hard, or they have autism or whatever. They might just have mold toxins, or they might have mold toxins that cause bacterial toxins.

And it's so real. Absolutely. Because the mold will obviously have the opposite effect. Right. It will cause bacterial problems just like. Yeah, it's amazing. But see, the reason you know that is because you experience. Yeah, right. The reason I know that is because I experienced it. Right. Meaning, like, I had had these, you know, impossible biofilms. Right. A lot of people today are trying to solve their gut problem when, again, they're in a mold problem or they have an upstream heavy metal issue.

Makes me so happy you're saying this.

Yeah. And they're going all these, you know, probiotic this, that other thing. It's like, hold on, you know, what's 20 miles up the river? There might be a factory, you know, dumping a toxin in the river. And that's why your fish are dying down here. So stop trying to populate the fish. You know, in other words, the microbiome. It's not going to happen until you deal with what's going on up there. But, you know, doctors don't want to hear it. We have more fancy testing, whether it's SNP testing, genetic testing, microbiome testing, but yet I feel like alternative medicine is. Is pulling away from that, in a sense, and getting fancier instead of, like, dealing with the upstream issues. We got our lives back because we got to the cause.

We're incredibly fortunate, and it took an enormous amount of money and learning, and.

That'S why we're here.

Yeah. When we're both able to educate. And I think you have so much leverage because you're teaching doctors how to detox in a way that's functional. And so I practice gratitude for all the shit I went through because it motivated me. My blog. I thought five people read this and not go through all the hell I went through. And that was my goal.

Dave, look at the amount of people you've been able to impact. And it's. It would have never happened if you hadn't suffered.

Oh, yeah.

So from pain to purpose has been my whole life story, man. I sit here because of that, you know, And I like to say pain to purpose, to promise, Meaning I always believe God has a promise in it for someone that if, you know, if you anchor to it, it's like, watch what can happen, watch what he does.

Completely agree. All right, let's start at the top. How do I get rid of toxins in my sinuses?

Well, let's say this. How do you get rid of toxins in your brain, sinuses, body? Right. Well, no doubt there's detox pathways that we all were born with. They start in our cell. They eventually have to work their way to the liver, kidneys, gut, et cetera. But it all starts here. So if you've heard me say real detox is at the cell, it's a cellular issue.

So agree.

So we can't just say, I'm going to get Rid of these toxins using chelators, binders. That's part of it. I teach it. However, if we don't fix what's broken here, then we're never going to fix what's the problem. So. Meaning if you. If your cells detox pathways start to slow down now, you're broken from the very beginning and you will never get well. So my saying is, if we fix the cell, we get well. But let me give people an analogy they can hold on to. So there's many different detox pathways that our cells utilize to get rid of to. By the way, when your cells make energy in the mitochondria, which is in our cells, they makes toxins. It's like burning wood in a fireplace.

Yeah. Reactive oxygen species.

Absolutely. If we don't have the damper open, meaning the toxins can't get out and they come into the home, we die. Right. Okay, so everyone has that analogy. Okay, here's one more we know. To make a car more powerful, faster. Right. Perform better, people put dual exhausts on them. Yep. And immediately the power goes up. Okay, that means that if we can get rid of toxins, we actually increase power. Okay. Now let's do the opposite. Oh, that's a true story.

I did that to my Tesla and nothing happened.

Yeah, that's really weird.

I don't have a Tesla. Never owned an electric car.

Well, good thing. They might bomb it outside. Who knows what's going to happen these days? But anyway, so now if this is a true story. Let me tell the story. So we were in high school, and I drove my friends somewhere. I think it was a party, and I was the designated driver, and we got in the car to drive home. And I'm driving home and the power's dying, and I'm dying, and I'm. At this point, I have it floored. Literally. I accelerated the gun. I'm criticizing my friends how heavy they are. I'm like, literally. I wasn't processing. Finally, it gets so bad, the car just dies. The next scene was me calling my parents to come pick us up. Okay. The next day, we found out what happened. Someone who didn't like one of us stuffed an apple in the exhaust. An apple. Okay, so what happened? The toxins were building up in the engine, and the engine was. Power was getting less and less. Sound familiar? America, right?

You're getting banana thing from that movie.

Yeah, exactly. But anyways. But until the point where the engine, you know, Died. Right, but that's what's happening in people's cells. When these detox pathways slowed down, you'd be dead if they. Or, you know, if they just stopped. But slowed down, the toxins are now building up in the cell. And just like the engine, first sign is just low power. Gosh, I just feel I can't make it through a day. I feel like. But, you know, you feel like you're gonna just go kaput, and that can happen. But as those toxins build up in the cell, a lot of things happen. Your detox pathways, they get worse and worse. Your DNA that's in that cell as well, starts to get triggered. Toxins, as we said, turn on the bad genes. So now you get the diagnosis. It's a thyroid condition. It's osha, whatever it is. Right. They start turning it on, but also more as the energy drops. So now energy's dropping, inflammation is rising.

Right.

And all your methylation pathways are exhausted. Your glutathione pathways, you know, and your hormones don't work even if you're taking them just like us. That's. Detox is about fixing what's broken there.

And it's in the cell. Not the liver, not the kidneys.

That's right.

Okay. And not those. Even the sweat glands.

Yeah, no, exactly. And listen, I'm all for saunas. I'm all. I have one. You know, I love them just as you do. I'm all for keeping the liver. Part of my process is you have to keep the liver and the kidney and the gut open. But. But the big part of what I've been teaching for 20 years is fixing this. I'm pointing at the cell.

How do you go about fixing the cell?

Okay, I. I have my five Rs, which is a roadmap to do this right. I don't want to bore people with the deep science. Your audience is pretty privy here, so. But the five Rs came about. Let me tell that story first. Out of a very frustrating lecture that I gave in California.

You.

I was so jazzed talking about this, what I just said, basically. Right. I probably didn't have as good analogies then, but I was super excited. But I could tell they weren't my audience. You've spoken enough. You know, when you have them, when you don't. I didn't have them. So beating myself up on the flight home, literally, I was like, gosh, you know, I. I just need to figure out a way to communicate. And then I prayed. I literally just. I said a prayer, and I'm telling you, it started coming, and I reached down and grabbed my.