Discovered Alcohol 2.0: A Hangover-Free Way To Party (Watch now!) | TRU KAVA

Affects dopamine without creating that addiction dependency withdrawal type cycle. So it's not a state where you lose control, you actually feel like more of yourself. Which is what makes kava the most unique and relevant psychoactive medicine for our modern age. Kava is really amazing at getting you into what I call the perfect state of mind, hyper sobriety. If they ever layer in like a traditionally prepared kava into coffee, you get this amazing elation. It just like supercharges it.

Is kava a drug? You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today we're going to talk about alcohol. Some interesting things are going on in the world that you might not know. About 41% of Americans say they're planning to drink less alcohol, which is a 7% increase in one year of people saying, I don't want to drink as much. And, and 61% of Gen Z say that they're reducing that up from 40% in 2023. So we're seeing a massive societal change where people are saying alcohol just isn't worth it. And it's not like they're just sitting around drinking water, they're doing something else. And we're going to talk about things you can do instead of alcohol that are still fun, that still give you the benefits of alcohol. And what are the benefits? Well, fun social lubrication. The problem is if they come with a huge health impact, which alcohol has. And since the very beginning of biohacking, I've been saying all you have to do is track your sleep and look at what one drink does to you and you realize alcohol is a bad idea if you want to live a very long time like I do, or if you want to have a highly functioning brain like I do. So what's in the middle? Our guest today is my friend Cameron George, who runs a company called Trukava. I've been an advisor and investor in Trucava since just about the very early days of the company, right?

Pretty early, yeah, it was. We were a couple. I mean, I spent seven years developing the framework of the company and the supply chain, the South Pacific. Once we launched, it was probably like two years after. Maybe it was early on. Yeah.

And you guys are now in sprouts.

Yeah.

And so the company is going well. And if you've never heard of kava, kava is a really interesting compound. Cameron, tell me about kava.

Kava is a stress relieving social tonic. In fact, it's nature's original stress relieving social tonic that builds mental Health instead of detracts from it.

Okay, nature's original. What does this mean?

Well, it means that it's. It's a whole food substance that's been prepared from the roots of this shrub like plant that grows in Polynesia.

Okay.

So island chains like Fiji and Vanuatu, which is like right off the coast of Fiji and it's really on these island chains like all through the South Pacific. And it's been used there for over 3, 000 years by like 90 of the culture in Vanuatu for everything from weddings, funerals, spiritual ceremonies, social gatherings. Basically any context where people come together, connect, relax, want to elevate their, you know, emotional state and kind of get into a better state centered frame of mind to experience something at a higher level.

Is kava a drug?

No, I would say that it's a psychoactive plant compound that's in a category of its own. So it's not really classified as an adaptogen like a ginseng or a rishi mushroom. Even though it has adaptogenic characteristics, it does increase a person's adaptation potential over time. But typically an adaptogen is more like a nutritive substance exclusively that doesn't have a powerful, tangible psychoactive effect. Like in the short term, you take it over time and you kind of notice a subtle sort of more energy and things balancing out. Kava has that component it, but it also has the drug like component of like an acute effect that you would get, say, off an alcohol, but without depleting, you know, the receptors that it hits or also without causing any level of toxicity or inebriation. So it doesn't have any of the side effects and it doesn't set up habituation by artificially stimulating the receptors to dump tomorrow's stores to pay for today's.

I just had my 29% birthday and I served true kava at, at my party. In fact, all the stuff that I go to my girlfriend Christina at her Wedipin immersion. You were kind enough to provide kava shots for everybody. And it's kind of cool because alcohol makes you more relaxed, but it also makes you a little bit dumb. And we've all seen videos of people, you know, falling over from it. You're not going to get that from true kava, but you do feel more conversational, more relaxed. What's it doing to neurotransmitters?

Kava binds to a specific set of receptors called the GABA A receptors in the brain. And GABA kind of think of it like the primary brakes of your nervous system. Right. It's the thing that anytime you take something that affects gaba, it's going to make you feel calm, it's going to make you feel grounded, it's going to make you feel comfortable and safe. It really opposes the sympathetic nervous system. Okay, so the sympathetic, like fight or flight, like brings you into rest and digest. That's its main mechanism. But it's really interesting because it doesn't have just one linear mechanism like a pharmaceutical would, like, say a benzodiazepine like Xanax that only hits those receptors. So it just brings you down, down, down. Kava also unilaterally hits on four of the major other key neurotransmission systems, but not quite as powerfully as the GABA system. But it also has effects on dopamine, for example, okay. Similar to alcohol, but again, without depleting it or without creating toxicity in the. In. In a side effect to it. So it affects dopamine without depleting it and setting up the need to further stimulate it more and creating that kind of addiction, dependency withdrawal type cycle that you see.

Okay, so you're, you're not feeling tired, at least for me. Back when I. I drank regularly when I was in my early 20s, I would go out and I'd have, you know, a few drinks and I'd get really tired. And this is probably because I wasn't very healthy. But I would just say, I'll just drink three shots of espresso and then I'll have three drinks, and then I feel pretty good. So I wanted the upper. And the alcohol effect. Look, if you're in your 20s, this is the dumbest thing you could ever do, like speedball. Yeah, your. Your brain doesn't need the alcohol then. This is when we typically drink. Drink the most. And then it causes cognitive issues. Sometimes even just getting shitty drunk one time can change your brain for long periods of time. So I was doing that because I. I would get so tired. I don't get tired when I drink two kava. Why does kava not make you tired the way alcohol can?

Because it's the way that it affects the receptors. It's very interesting because there's a lot of great literature on this and the mechanisms are actually pretty well understood. So it doesn't just plug into the GABA A receptor, for example, and just stimulate the dumping of the available stores of GABA and you just get this really, really big dump. It has more of a modulatory effect on the GAB and the dopamine system and the serotonin system. And the cholinergic system. So what it does is it's upregulating these things instead of downregulating them, which is why it's not addictive. In fact, it's anti addictive because of that, because it helps to replete them. But it naturally gives you this sort of calm centered, but yet lifted state of mind and state of consciousness. So it's really that sort of calm centered focus. So you're not sedated, you're not wired up, you're just clear and calm and you're ready to go. It's the perfect state to get into a reflective, a creative or an empathetic state of mind, which is why it's such a good connecting tool.

Okay. You know, when I look at mother nature's original nootropics, we have my favorite one, a caffeine here on my arm. By the way, tattoos are bad for you. I know they're bad for you. I just got this one anyway because I use carbon black and it's a small amount of ink and whatever I wanted it. But if I was gonna get another tattoo, it'd probably be nicotine. And for 10 years now I've been talking about nicotine as a nootropic anti Alzheimer's thing. Smoking's bad for you, but a little bit of nicotine is a longevity substance. You can read about it in my cognitive enhancement book. You can read about my longevity book. So I'm finally, I'm really stoked to hear guys like Andrew Huberman, who, who was on the show before we had a show, actually getting on the. The idea that, okay, a little bit of nicotine is actually good for you, even though smoking's not. So if we have caffeine, we have nicotine, and those are active compounds from plants. What is the active compound in kava?

Similar to cannabis? There's not just one. So as where with coffee or with tobacco, there's one sort of leading instrument in the orchestra of instruments that plays the loudest. With kava, there's six major ones.

Okay.

But the main, if there was main one, it would be one called kavane.

Kavene.

Yes, kavene. So K A V A I N Kavein. So if I was to get a tattoo, I would actually get kavene across my chest, probably, and then the five other supportive kavalactones right under that on my belly somewhere, probably because I'm just obsessed with that combination of actives. Right. As far as molecules are concerned, they're fascinating how they work together but so there's kavane, there's a double bonded form of it called dihydrocovain, there's one called mephisticine starting with an M, it's hard to say. And there's one called dihydromethystokine which is double bonded form of that. And then there's one called yangonin and one called desmothoxy angonin. Okay, so those six are actually the ones that we test for in every batch to get a good sense of what the potency is. And we actually do a chemotype that tells us the ratios of those things. I can tell you what the effects are going to be. Is it going to be more heady or is it going to be more relaxing? Is going to be perfect in the middle, which is where we like it.

That's one of the reasons I decided to start working with you as an advisor, is that you're very precise and you're testing because there was a problem in the 80s with kava that was made from the wrong kind of plants and extracted poorly, that had some liver issues. It feels like that's much less of an issue unless you're just getting some random, random kava that maybe someone found a root. And also you're very clean and very precise in it. When I open up a can of Trucava and it's like a beer can, I probably should have got one for the show, but it looks like a can of beer or something and you drink it, it's sparkly, it tastes good. Are they all the same? Is one of them more ampy than another? Do different batches vary or is it always the same?

For us, we've standardized it to be all the same. And the reason is when you're trying to bring a new commodity into the market, say like I was trying to bring Coca Cola into the market 100 years ago, you really kind of want one thing and you don't want to spread out with too many options and try to be like, this is what kava is.

So you would have put cocaine in every batch.

Correct.

The way Coca Cola did.

Or coca leaf extract. Coca leaf extract would be great. Coca Cola can still use it for flavoring, but you know, they're the only ones that can bring it in, so.

Oh, really? I didn't know that. Yeah, so they actually. But they're. It's probably free of the, of the cocaine like effects.

It's processed in a certain way down to micro concentrations. But they're the only company that can bring it into the United States in mass quantities to use it.

I had no idea.

Yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah.

So Coca Cola is behind Air America.

You know, I don't.

Oh, wow. We're going to go deep, Cameron. We've got the whole, you know, conspiracy theory. The deep state in Coca Cola, CIA.

Coca, you know, erythroxyl and coca. Right. From Peru is actually, it's, it's not totally harmless, but it carries a similar safety profile to coffee.

It's good.

And use it every single day. No one's robbing convenience stores. But then if you isolate the active, the most active alcohol, the instrument that plays loud, loudest in that orchestra, cocaine, and put it in a synthetic sort of isolated form, then it'll ruin your life over the weekend, you know, that's cocaine. We all know that.

I would just like to point out that cocaine is vegan.

Yeah. I mean, a lot of vegans I know are kind of feel like they're on coke a little bit.

I did when I was a vegan. It's like I'm so ungrounded. My body's starving. I have nervous energy.

Yeah.

And I'm yelling at everyone. It's almost like it's a little bit.

Of angry, a little, little ye. You know. Yeah.

It happens.

Yeah.

It's interesting that when I went down to Peru and Ecuador, I would chew, you know, I would drink mate de coca or chew the coca leaves. They work great for altitude and like I said, it feels like coffee. It, it's, it's pretty neutral. But there's all kinds of political and socioeconomic things that get in the way of it. Chukava is not at all a controlled substance anywhere though, is it?

No. So it's. Kava is actually by World Health Organization standards via a regional or international quality standard that was submitted by our kava coalition and a few others well back 6 years ago they adopted it. And initially it is seen as a food. So if it's prepared traditionally the way that we prepare it using only water and pressure extraction, and it is actually the definition of kava via the Vanuatu Kava act of 2002. It is the water and pressure extraction of only the roots. That means the above ground stump and underground lateral root portion of the plant of Piper mephisticum, which is the genus and species name for the kava plant means intoxicating pepper. So that is what kava is by definition. So most people that have seen kava kava extracts capsules, liquids, paste, tea bags that are out there Floating in the Internet in a few locations, in a few places. Most of those, pretty much all of those are kava extracts. So while there's nothing wrong with most of those, even though you can go wrong with some of those, if you use the wrong parts of the plant and things, and they can become slightly toxic and problematic, traditional kava is the thing that's really considered as a food both in the United States and elsewhere. And previous any bans that have been on kava around the world have been in response to what you alluded to earlier, which was this misnomer around liver toxicity that was. Was shoddy and baseless, similar to happened to tryptophan in the early 90s. Someone created a toxic batch with the wrong parts of the kava plant, just like happened with tryptophan. And then the whole thing got ostracized for a period of time. Pretty much all bands in the world have been lifted. US never banned it. It's so it's never been a scheduled substance ever, because it's a food like substance, like coffee.

Let's talk about tryptophan for just a second here for listeners, if you've read any of of the books. Amino acids are like letters in the Alphabet. And so your body makes proteins by assembling letters. And peptides are like words, and a whole protein would be a sentence. You have these letters that build everything. Tryptophan is just an amino acid building block. It's actually essential for life. And like you said, one company in the 90s made a bad batch, and the pharmaceutical industry was like, aha. People are taking tryptophan because it works for sleep. So now we have an excuse to ban it so we can sell more chemicals. And this is what happened. So it was just dirty pool, typical big pharma behavior. And just if you're working for a big pharma company, did you just see that Bobby Kennedy is now coming in? So I think you, as he says, should maintain your records, if you know what I'm saying. I'm actually a huge supporter of pharmaceuticals because I want control of my own biology. I want control every tool. I want good science. But if you're making one tool and you try to suppress another tool, like, we will come for you. Like, give me the full menu and I'll choose the right one with the right risk profile. And when I look at everything in life that way, whether it's a food, it's a form of exercise, there's always a pro, there's always a con. When it comes to parties. I don't like drinking. I didn't serve any alcohol on my birthday. The last three parties I've been to, no one drank. And granted, I'm in Austin, you know, we're cutting edge and all that, but it just. People don't want to drink. And there might be some other things. There's usually Trucava, and there might be some other things like microdosing or whatever, but the risk reward on that is better than it is for alcohol. So if you work for an alcohol company, well, you wouldn't want to try to suppress coke, right? It's like it's a. It's a. A playing field where you get to do what you want to do. If you want to stay powerful, no matter how old you are, you want to keep your muscles strong and working. And you might think that the answer is to hit the gym harder, maybe for two hours a day, like one mistaken longevity doctor says. But there's a hack so that you don't have to add even a single rep. It's called mito, pure by timeline. As you get older, your muscles naturally do shrink. It's one of the big causes of aging and people falling and stuff like that. Unfortunately, it means you feel tired and worn out first. And studies show that this is because your mitochondria are weaker. And there's great research going back over 10 years to back up this one compound. So give mitopure a try for two months, let it sink in, and you'll feel the difference or maybe even see the difference in your skin. Go to timeline.com Dave, you'll get a great discount. This is something I use every single day. How has the reception for Trucava been? It's in grocery stores now. Like, this is a big change.

It's been phenomenal. It's been phenomenal for a couple reasons. There are a lot of emerging, what I call social tonics that have come out on the market as of the last handful of years, just because this whole sober, curious movement that's blowing up, people are looking for not necessarily to get rid of alcohol totally, but what lies beyond it. Is there a more efficient technology that can allow me to have my cake and eat it too, at least part of the time. Maybe not all the time, but part of the time. But the reception to Kava has been so strong because where a lot of these companies and a lot of biohackers and just different people that are looking for, how can I get that elevated state but without being a different person, without My ego coming out without anger, coming out, without losing control over my internal domain and without losing 20% of my productivity for the next two days afterwards. Right, right. Without keeping myself in the brain and without cumulatively actually getting white matter loss over, you know, over the course of my life. Which. Yeah, there's a study back two years ago in London, they looked at 30, 000 people and they saw white matter loss, significant white matter tissue loss in even mild to moderate drinkers of one to two drinks per night average. That could be, you know, a drink every night, or that could be three days on the weekend, three days in the week. So that actually is. And Daniel Amen's work has actually showed metabolic holes from almost every subject that's done a brain scan, functional brain scan, SPECT imaging scan that has drank. So people are actually looking for what lies beyond it. And I think why Kava is being so successful is because of all of the options. It actually delivers on the effect, but only the fraction of the effect that people are really looking for. I think that it really actually delivers on the promise that alcohol has made to us or the powers that be that have had vested interest in pushing alcohol is, you know, that social lubrication, Right. So that ability to sort of relax and connect in a social setting, because we all have a fundamental human drive for that, that need to feel safe, that, that relaxation, that groundedness and then that elevation of mood that gives you that zest for life that makes you just want to engage with the environment around you and be connected to it. Kava delivers on those, but without intoxicating you. So I call it hyper sobriety. Right. It's not. It's not a state of intoxication, so it's not a state where you lose control, you actually feel like more of yourself.

So does Trukava work with mushrooms? Does it work with mdma?

Oh, good question. I love that one. So in short term, it definitely can. Obviously this is a contextual thing. It depends on how much you're taking it depends on what context. Anytime you're dealing in something that's sort of mind expansive, anything in the psychedelic category, the standard sort of tryptamines, the sort of more ceremonial type medicine, psilocybin, lsd, dmt, ayahuasca, mdma, any of those set and setting, and there's so much context to whether or not you're going to get a good or bad experience. It's not all of those things just like alcohol or just like anything else. I don't see them as Good or bad. The moral dimension comes in with how they are placed and how they are used. They're all technologies and how you place the technology determines the effect that you're getting. Right. Some technologies are more efficient than others. Right. It's like a gas powered car engine or say nitrogen based fertilizers back, you know, you know, 50, 60, 70, 100 years ago. We're good for a short term benefit, but if we use them too long, they deplete the soil and you get this. So is there a technology that we could use that allows us to have our cake and eat it too? That's kind of how I think, how I think about it. Right. Like, like even in context with alcohol. Right. It's just one of those that you get a lot of negative feedback if you use consistently over a long period of time. So what are the other options? Technologies that I can layer in. So but as far as mushrooms or any of those things and layering them on with mushrooms, people are doing a lot of that, especially in states where it's been legalized, especially where people are microdosing. And I can tell you, kava doesn't, it doesn't dampen or downplay or reduce the effects of any of those like psychedelic substances or even cannabis. It really just enhances them. And the reason is because unlike say a benzodiazepine, a lot of times people, if they go to like a music festival and they're going to be taking psilocybin recreationally or something, they'll keep benzodiazepines around because if they have a bad trip starts to sprout to control, a benzo will actually neutralize the bad trip because it neutralizes the amygdala and stops that spiral. But it also kills the trip, it numbs the trip because it dumbs you down. Kava grounds you through that GABA system. But through the unique plant pharmacology that's in there, it grounds you and expands you at the same time. So it's great. It's actually a great companion to people doing things like ayahuasca ceremonies because it helps with integration, because it helps to ground the experience. You can take everything that you're getting from the opening of that crown chakra, so to speak, to use Eastern terminology, everything that's swirling around up here, it helps to ground it into a practical reality, into implementation, into your life. Because the biggest thing I believe that people are missing from utilizing those medicines in modern culture, Western culture, is the thousands of years of historical context of how to ground and integrate the lessons or the insights or the perspectives or the connection that you're getting. So a lot of people are using it for that. They use it before they do an ayahuasca ceremony. They do it after to kind of keep those doors open, but to ground themselves and to reduce the over chatter that can come from that over intenseness of the experience. It just grounds everything out, makes everything more comfortable.

If someone's having a hard time with a mushroom experience or something, should they have some kava when they start having a hard time? Or should they just take the kava along with the mushrooms at the beginning?

You could do either one. I've seen people do it either way. Sometimes if people just want to ensure a smooth experience, they'll actually take it on the front end. But also having it around in large dosages in case something starts to spiral out of control or they get into a situation that they can't quite control. That's not good for them. They don't feel that's good for them. It's one of those kind of spirals. Then kava is a perfect substance to take because it reduces that amygdala activity, but it won't kill your experience. So it allows you to kind of ground. I mean, here's what it's doing. It's. It's working in that context in a similar way that we're seeing it clinically. Work on things like ptsd, which I think it's going to be a huge application for that going into the future. It's bringing you into a state of mental and emotional safety by holding down that amygdala response. So it's allowing you to reflect on what's going on internally and your past experiences from a place of emotional safety, which allows you to form new associations and neural connections in association with those things. So instead of being that sympathetic fight or flight, it's a. It's. It's sort of a way, like, you can't change the past. You can change how you relate to the past. Okay, so that's what we're starting to see. Like, that's one reason why the Polynesians have always seen it as a processor of trauma, mental, emotional, and physical. But we're talking about mental emotional, because it helps the brain to plasticize and rewire its associations to everything going on internally and even into the past. It's a reset.

This is a really important conversation. I definitely have been doing work with psychedelics for actually since 1999, and I think there's a Risk. When people are saying, I've taken ayahuasca 87 times and. And you look at like, well, every weekend.

Yeah.

When are you going to notice it's not working right? So I, I've done ayahuasca twice in my life. It's not something that I recommend doing regularly. In fact, it's the last psychedelic I think you should try if people are into psychedelics. But there are lots and lots of studies now of psychedelic mushrooms, and recent studies came out that showed if you take MDMA with mushrooms, that your odds of having a traumatizing experience that causes additional trauma, what they would call a bad trip. Well, you don't get re traumatized because the presence of the MDMA makes the potential scary stuff. You might see that you. You don't know how to process it. It makes it not stick in a negative way. It sounds like kava might have a similar effect. I don't think it's as well studied, but if you're someone who has a lot of fear around, maybe your first mushroom ceremony or something, maybe having some kava alongside it is just a way to say, all right, I know that my fear response isn't going to be as big because the way you get through a psychedelic experience is by surrendering and by, okay, you know, if my body's feeling whatever it is, I know it's going to end. So I'm just going to roll with it and experience what I experience and just be aware. But if you're totally in fight or flight, it's so much harder. So kava can help with that because of amygdala response. That's a big deal. I think it's time for some studies with maps or something.

It's why during any crisis situation, one of the main things that's always encouraged is to not panic. Right. Because panic just takes you out of that integrated state of mind where you can take in what's going on and actually assert a proper response that's going to get you the best result.

It's kind of funny telling people, don't. It's like saying, just calm down. You're like, well, duh. You know, those are sort of thoughts. And so I'm thinking, what's the opposite of panic? And it's surrender. And panic comes from resistance.

Yeah.

So double negative just feeds the loop. So instead of don't panic, it's more like, lean in, relax, and be curious. And being curious will take you out of fear. But it's a lot easier if your amygdala is harder to trigger because you had kava at the same time. So I think there's something to be said for people who are doing deep work, and it could just be breath work. I mean, I know people have had very profound holotropic breath work experiences. And you could take true kava before you do that.

Absolutely, yeah. When that's the good thing is that here's what distinguishes and differentiates kava from all these other medicines that we're talking about, is the spectrum and ease of use. You can use kava daily in almost any context, whether you're going to work, whether you're around your kids, whether you don't have to, like, set out this. This very specific ceremonial retreat, like context. Right. Where you go somewhere else and do it because you can't be around anyone else that's going to interfere with your life. So you can implement kava into those practices, but you can also implement it into your daily breath work. It's one of those things that I kind of see. These plant medicines, the ones that are in their plant form that still have the full intelligence inside of them, I see them as counselors of some degree, and forming a relationship with it is like forming a relationship with a human. Some humans are better wired and synced for your biology and your framework to have a close relationship with. It's healthier for you. And some you should only see them every once in a while for it to be a healthy outcome. And some you shouldn't see at all. Right, Right. And so these medicines have different characteristics. The thing about kava is the way that it's adapted and evolved. It's very compatible. It's almost. It's probably the most compatible psychoactive substance that I've ever seen with human biology, to be taken regularly without any drawback. Whenever you bring kava into your body, it's like having a counselor there to some degree or someone while you're in your experience, whether it be your sort of daily practice, your daily breath work practice, or your marriage counseling, or your actual plant medicine ceremony. It's like bringing a counselor into your body that's telling your fight or flight system to shh and sort of grounding you to calm down. So you're like, okay, I get it, I get it. So you're not frantic. It just does that almost better than anything because it has such a strong characteristic for grounding, which is what makes kava probably the most unique and relevant psychoactive medicine for our modern age. Because of all the trauma we're all stuck in Sympathetic.

So you said something really important there. You said with your marriage counselor. So if you wanted to have a hard conversation with your partner, maybe you both should have some kava before that because you're less likely to trigger each other as you're working through something you probably need to talk about.

Absolutely. It's used in Polynesia like this.

Do you do that in your relationship?

Well, I'm not in a relationship right now, but I have done it.

Okay. Do you take true kava, like, handed out on first dates?

Oh, sure, absolutely. Because similar to giving it to. I've given it to a lot of comedians and public speakers whenever they're about to go up on stage because it works a little bit like beta blockers in the sense, you know, how, like, a lot of people take propranolol, the beta blocker, before they go on stage to block adrenaline so that they can better have a smooth experience. Kava similar.

I've coached a lot of. A lot of execs over the years, and the number one fear in the US Is of public speaking. More than sharks, more than, you know, government people forcing you to take medications you don't want, like, the number one fear. So some people who are really highly performing, you put them on stage and they just turn into idiots because of their fight or flight response. And you can do breath work. And. And I have a whole practice. I don't have any stage fright at all. I'm the same person now.

Or public humiliation. It's being ostracized from the tribe. It's. It's deeply embedded in us.

It's a deep fear, and so you can work through that. So it's like I uncomfortable, but that's very rare. And a lot of musicians in particular have a big problem saying, I can't do it. So they take beta blockers. If you're a musician, that works. And these are prescription drugs, and they block adrenaline's effect. The problem is if you're a speaker and you can't make adrenaline if you need to bring it or there's a hostile question from the audience or you want to emote, it doesn't work. But, kava, if you were to take that before you went on stage, then you can still emote.

Absolutely. In fact, you're much more clear.

I never thought of that. This should be on every. If you're a speaker coach, and I know a lot of guys, listeners like Bo is probably listening. Absolutely. Who's one of my favorite. Bo Eason, one of my favorite coaches for that. So Beau you guys need to talk about using Kava. For people who are really anxious. This is a cool idea.

There are so many applications like this for kava and it's so good for so many things, which sometimes makes it difficult to talk about, because it does. Because anywhere where you're trying to communicate ideas with people, Kava is really amazing at getting you into that, what I call the perfect state of mind, hyper sobriety.

How many true kavas did you have before you came on the show?

Well, how many? It's morning time, so probably two.

And how many do you have in a normal day?

It varies day to day, depending on what I'm doing, but probably like 3, 4, 5, something, you know, spread throughout the day. I use certain varieties, like some of my own, like R D batch type of stuff, sometimes, whenever I need like an extra kick. But our regular products are what I use consistently. And all of my friends and everybody on our team is sort of always on kava. In our office we have a kegerator full of kava on tap, where everyone's just constantly. Because we actually wanted everybody in that state of mind where people just feel more connected. It just sort of creates a better, well oiled machine. It really helps for team environments of all kinds, like boardrooms. It's great for, for just stimulating creativity and getting everybody connected and getting kind of that left, right brain hemisphere connection going on where you get this integrated thinking where you can see the big picture. That's why people microdose. But kava allows you to do that legally and it allows you to use, utilize that effect almost any time of the day without being on something that either could be illegal or that will lose its effectiveness. Like some of the trip to means do.

Wow, okay, this is super cool stuff. We've never gone this deep. And if you're a new listener to the show. Thank you. There's always new people coming in and Cameron's been on the show before where he talked about his background story and how kava made a big difference for him. But we're going deep on how to use this as an adaptogen, as a nootropic. But I gotta ask you the real question.